GOD'S LAWS ARE ETERNAL!!! That includes the Sabbath and every other one! For you to argue otherwise is outrageous. I'm not SDA but do have common sense. You are at risk and are jeopardizing others because of something you do not understand. Yeshua did not come to take away from the laws of Moses but to add to them. He worshiped on Saturdays and obeyed ALL of the high father's commandments. Why is it so important to you that others stop resting and worshiping on the Sabbath???
@greghar2003 I think the best response to your comment is Hebrews 8. Just read the chapter. The new covenant (New Testament) is established on better promises, the old covenant (OT) is obsolete. I didn't say it, the Bible did. The truth is, we must take all the Bible in context. Our first question should be, "Who is this written to?" The next should be, "Can it apply to me?" Much can be learned from the OT, no doubt about it, but it is not our law (Galatians 3:24-25).
@tgbotg The new covenant does NOT and never will revoke GOD's LAWS!!! Hebrews 10:26:29
If we deliberately keep on sinning after receiving the knowledge of the Truth, NO sacrifice for sin is left, but only fearful expectation of judgement and of raging fire that will consume the enemies of God.
Anyone who rejected the law of Moses died without mercy...
How much more severely do you think a man deserves to be punished who has trampled to Son of God... and who has insulted the Spirit of Grace?
@greghar2003 Revoke is not the right word, no. But it does make it obsolete. What do you do with an obsolete computer? You get all you can from it, but in the end, you throw it out. Now I'm not saying we should rip out the first 39 books of the Bible; they are for our learning, but not our law (1 Cor 10:11). In this verse you bring up, they make a clear distinction between the "law of Moses" and the "Son of God." They show what was past first in Moses' law, and then what is present in Christ's.
@greghar2003 Jesus worshiped on the Sabbath because He was a Jew and was under Jewish law. But we learn He is the Lord of the Sabbath in Mark 2:23-28; He is the Sabbath's Boss. This is important because we're told what day the Christians worshiped in the First Century in Acts 2 and Acts 20:7. The Day of Pentecost was a first day of the week, as is the day mentioned in Acts 20. Justin Martyr records them worshiping on Sundays by the Second Century, well before Roman Catholicism took hold.
@tgbotg i see this will go back and forth with no resolution. However, I'll leave you with this. In the final days, the Antichrist will have people worship him and change the Holy day from Saturday to Sunday. Do you not agree? If not, better hope you are not alive when he comes or you may not like what you preach.
@greghar2003 I cited several verses and you didn't respond to any of mine while citing one that doesn't even relate to the topic. I think I won even if you won't admit it. How are you not SDA? Every one of your arguments comes straight from their playbook including this erroneous eschatological argument. What does my being alive in the "final days" have to do with it anyway? According to your doctrine hasn't the antichrist already done this in the form of the pope? Aren't I damned regardless?
@tgbotg How old are you; you act like a child? If you think this was a victory, hope you enjoy hell? As I said, this was going nowhere which is why I ended the discussion. You are head-strong and foolish in your ways. God has warned us not to take on these battles attempting to change or enlighten a fool. I see you won't even accept what the "End Times" worship day being to changed Sunday means for those who abide by it. Good luck, false preacher! Btw, I've never stepped into an SDA church.
@greghar2003 Insult me and deny it all you want. Logically I have proved my case; you have not. It is difficult to have an honest religious discussion with someone who cannot present a convincing argument from the Bible, or counter your own argument with any validity, yet still hold to their erroneous convictions. I cannot accept something that isn't true, and you haven't even tried to prove it. Am I to take your word for it? Galatians 1:6-10. I am more like a fair-minded Berean, Acts 17:11.
@tgbotg You accept nothing contrary to your desires. To say God's Laws are not eternal when the Bible specifically states they are numerous times is absurd. If you choose not to obey the Sabbath, what of the other 9 Commandments? Is adultery, murder, theft, lying, etc. acceptable to you? I think not. So why pretend the Sabbath is the only exception? Maybe you are being too academic, but ALL Commandments must be obeyed. It's about good vs evil, right vs wrong & that hasn't changed, never will.
@greghar2003 I do not follow the Decalogue. 9 of them are repeated in the NT, and I follow the NT. In fact, Jesus holds us to a higher moral standard. All commandments in the OT must be obeyed? Okay. Next time you sacrifice a bull or goat, let me know. I haven't seen anything quite like that before. But don't expect it to absolve your sins. Hebrews 10:4. And before you say, "Jesus is our eternal sacrifice," remember that you said ALL must be obeyed, so we may have a contradiction.
@tgbotg Do you really call yourself a preacher? Then why do you throw up these lies to win an argument? Since when were sacrifices part of the 10 Commandments? Everyone knows that the old sacrifices were made obsolete by Yeshua's role as the Holy sacrifice. That's what he eliminated from the OT, not the Commandments. How can you confuse this subject? Please do not refer to yourself as a preacher when you do not understand the scriptures. This is nonsense.
@greghar2003 Did I call myself that? I suppose as an amateur. So you make a clear distinction between the Decalogue and the rest of the OT Law? Why? Nowhere in the Bible does it make such a distinction except in the uninspired chapter headings. The only difference is God spoke directly to the people of Israel (not Christians) these commands before the people shut Him up because they were afraid. It's essentially an arbitrary stopping point. Not even the greatest commandments were included here.
@greghar2003 Also, did you not say that God's Laws are eternal? Isn't the OT a part of God's Law? And you're overlooking one key thing: Why would I care what day I worship? My own desires? Honestly, why would I care, except God's people in the First Century worshiped on Sunday?
@tgbotg Actually, I believe the Apostle Paul even worship on Saturday. If that Commandment is so unimportant for you, then why do you abide by any others? The Bible never said to disresguard it, so why even take the chance? There is nothing to gain and much to loose if wrong. Remember I am not an SDA but am a firm believer in God's Laws. The Bible did state they are Eternal, so Yeshua never would have released anyone from following them. He came to add to the law not take away from it.
@greghar2003 What you believe and what Acts 20:7 says are not in harmony. Did I not say I followed the NT, and that 9 of the 10 are included there? They just aren't in the DECALOGUE format. It is clear to me from the verses I presented earlier that the OT is not something we should follow today, and guess what, the Decalogue is included in the OT. It's all or nothing, my friend. Can you provide Scripture for your claims? I'm afraid it's difficult to take you seriously without it.
@tgbotg The Sabbath was made for man, not man for the Sabbath . - Mark 2:27. Since no where in NT was the sabbath removed as the rest day, I will continue to honor my Lord and God on his assigned day. Ask yourself why it is so import for you not to honor this day? What are the risks of being wrong? Do what you wish, but I'm more content and better off sticking with the word of God to that over man, any day!
@greghar2003 Watch this, hopefully it will explain it better than I. It's called 2011 10 08 Paul Godfrey Mind Your Mind at the youtube link: v=Hy1de9u-5Lg&feature=mfu_in_order&list=UL
@greghar2003 Oy, that video is over an hour long. I can't possibly respond to everything he says in less than 500 characters. But I'll address yours first. I had mentioned the Mark reference earlier. I think you're focusing on one verse while missing the point of the passage. Jesus was lessening the significance the people placed on the Sabbath. If we're recommending videos, try this: watch?v=7T7gnj0OWlU -- the production value is clearly less than yours, but the message is true and clear.
@tgbotg Watch this, hopefully it will explain it better than I. It's called 2011 10 08 Paul Godfrey Mind Your Mind at the youtube link: v=Hy1de9u-5Lg&feature=mfu_in_order&list=UL
GOD'S LAWS ARE ETERNAL!!! That includes the Sabbath and every other one! For you to argue otherwise is outrageous. I'm not SDA but do have common sense. You are at risk and are jeopardizing others because of something you do not understand. Yeshua did not come to take away from the laws of Moses but to add to them. He worshiped on Saturdays and obeyed ALL of the high father's commandments. Why is it so important to you that others stop resting and worshiping on the Sabbath???
greghar2003 5 months ago
@greghar2003 I think the best response to your comment is Hebrews 8. Just read the chapter. The new covenant (New Testament) is established on better promises, the old covenant (OT) is obsolete. I didn't say it, the Bible did. The truth is, we must take all the Bible in context. Our first question should be, "Who is this written to?" The next should be, "Can it apply to me?" Much can be learned from the OT, no doubt about it, but it is not our law (Galatians 3:24-25).
tgbotg 5 months ago
@tgbotg The new covenant does NOT and never will revoke GOD's LAWS!!! Hebrews 10:26:29
If we deliberately keep on sinning after receiving the knowledge of the Truth, NO sacrifice for sin is left, but only fearful expectation of judgement and of raging fire that will consume the enemies of God.
Anyone who rejected the law of Moses died without mercy...
How much more severely do you think a man deserves to be punished who has trampled to Son of God... and who has insulted the Spirit of Grace?
greghar2003 5 months ago
@greghar2003 Revoke is not the right word, no. But it does make it obsolete. What do you do with an obsolete computer? You get all you can from it, but in the end, you throw it out. Now I'm not saying we should rip out the first 39 books of the Bible; they are for our learning, but not our law (1 Cor 10:11). In this verse you bring up, they make a clear distinction between the "law of Moses" and the "Son of God." They show what was past first in Moses' law, and then what is present in Christ's.
tgbotg 5 months ago
@greghar2003 Jesus worshiped on the Sabbath because He was a Jew and was under Jewish law. But we learn He is the Lord of the Sabbath in Mark 2:23-28; He is the Sabbath's Boss. This is important because we're told what day the Christians worshiped in the First Century in Acts 2 and Acts 20:7. The Day of Pentecost was a first day of the week, as is the day mentioned in Acts 20. Justin Martyr records them worshiping on Sundays by the Second Century, well before Roman Catholicism took hold.
tgbotg 5 months ago
@tgbotg i see this will go back and forth with no resolution. However, I'll leave you with this. In the final days, the Antichrist will have people worship him and change the Holy day from Saturday to Sunday. Do you not agree? If not, better hope you are not alive when he comes or you may not like what you preach.
greghar2003 5 months ago
@greghar2003 I cited several verses and you didn't respond to any of mine while citing one that doesn't even relate to the topic. I think I won even if you won't admit it. How are you not SDA? Every one of your arguments comes straight from their playbook including this erroneous eschatological argument. What does my being alive in the "final days" have to do with it anyway? According to your doctrine hasn't the antichrist already done this in the form of the pope? Aren't I damned regardless?
tgbotg 5 months ago
@tgbotg How old are you; you act like a child? If you think this was a victory, hope you enjoy hell? As I said, this was going nowhere which is why I ended the discussion. You are head-strong and foolish in your ways. God has warned us not to take on these battles attempting to change or enlighten a fool. I see you won't even accept what the "End Times" worship day being to changed Sunday means for those who abide by it. Good luck, false preacher! Btw, I've never stepped into an SDA church.
greghar2003 5 months ago
@greghar2003 Insult me and deny it all you want. Logically I have proved my case; you have not. It is difficult to have an honest religious discussion with someone who cannot present a convincing argument from the Bible, or counter your own argument with any validity, yet still hold to their erroneous convictions. I cannot accept something that isn't true, and you haven't even tried to prove it. Am I to take your word for it? Galatians 1:6-10. I am more like a fair-minded Berean, Acts 17:11.
tgbotg 5 months ago
@tgbotg You accept nothing contrary to your desires. To say God's Laws are not eternal when the Bible specifically states they are numerous times is absurd. If you choose not to obey the Sabbath, what of the other 9 Commandments? Is adultery, murder, theft, lying, etc. acceptable to you? I think not. So why pretend the Sabbath is the only exception? Maybe you are being too academic, but ALL Commandments must be obeyed. It's about good vs evil, right vs wrong & that hasn't changed, never will.
greghar2003 5 months ago
@greghar2003 I do not follow the Decalogue. 9 of them are repeated in the NT, and I follow the NT. In fact, Jesus holds us to a higher moral standard. All commandments in the OT must be obeyed? Okay. Next time you sacrifice a bull or goat, let me know. I haven't seen anything quite like that before. But don't expect it to absolve your sins. Hebrews 10:4. And before you say, "Jesus is our eternal sacrifice," remember that you said ALL must be obeyed, so we may have a contradiction.
tgbotg 5 months ago
@tgbotg Do you really call yourself a preacher? Then why do you throw up these lies to win an argument? Since when were sacrifices part of the 10 Commandments? Everyone knows that the old sacrifices were made obsolete by Yeshua's role as the Holy sacrifice. That's what he eliminated from the OT, not the Commandments. How can you confuse this subject? Please do not refer to yourself as a preacher when you do not understand the scriptures. This is nonsense.
greghar2003 5 months ago
@greghar2003 Did I call myself that? I suppose as an amateur. So you make a clear distinction between the Decalogue and the rest of the OT Law? Why? Nowhere in the Bible does it make such a distinction except in the uninspired chapter headings. The only difference is God spoke directly to the people of Israel (not Christians) these commands before the people shut Him up because they were afraid. It's essentially an arbitrary stopping point. Not even the greatest commandments were included here.
tgbotg 5 months ago
@greghar2003 Also, did you not say that God's Laws are eternal? Isn't the OT a part of God's Law? And you're overlooking one key thing: Why would I care what day I worship? My own desires? Honestly, why would I care, except God's people in the First Century worshiped on Sunday?
tgbotg 5 months ago
@tgbotg Actually, I believe the Apostle Paul even worship on Saturday. If that Commandment is so unimportant for you, then why do you abide by any others? The Bible never said to disresguard it, so why even take the chance? There is nothing to gain and much to loose if wrong. Remember I am not an SDA but am a firm believer in God's Laws. The Bible did state they are Eternal, so Yeshua never would have released anyone from following them. He came to add to the law not take away from it.
greghar2003 5 months ago
@greghar2003 What you believe and what Acts 20:7 says are not in harmony. Did I not say I followed the NT, and that 9 of the 10 are included there? They just aren't in the DECALOGUE format. It is clear to me from the verses I presented earlier that the OT is not something we should follow today, and guess what, the Decalogue is included in the OT. It's all or nothing, my friend. Can you provide Scripture for your claims? I'm afraid it's difficult to take you seriously without it.
tgbotg 5 months ago
@tgbotg The Sabbath was made for man, not man for the Sabbath . - Mark 2:27. Since no where in NT was the sabbath removed as the rest day, I will continue to honor my Lord and God on his assigned day. Ask yourself why it is so import for you not to honor this day? What are the risks of being wrong? Do what you wish, but I'm more content and better off sticking with the word of God to that over man, any day!
greghar2003 5 months ago
@greghar2003 Watch this, hopefully it will explain it better than I. It's called 2011 10 08 Paul Godfrey Mind Your Mind at the youtube link: v=Hy1de9u-5Lg&feature=mfu_in_order&list=UL
greghar2003 5 months ago
@greghar2003 Oy, that video is over an hour long. I can't possibly respond to everything he says in less than 500 characters. But I'll address yours first. I had mentioned the Mark reference earlier. I think you're focusing on one verse while missing the point of the passage. Jesus was lessening the significance the people placed on the Sabbath. If we're recommending videos, try this: watch?v=7T7gnj0OWlU -- the production value is clearly less than yours, but the message is true and clear.
tgbotg 5 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@tgbotg Watch this, hopefully it will explain it better than I. It's called 2011 10 08 Paul Godfrey Mind Your Mind at the youtube link: v=Hy1de9u-5Lg&feature=mfu_in_order&list=UL
greghar2003 5 months ago