HELLO raa57.I have never heard such rubbish. A self-taught pilot is about as silly as self taught BRAIN SURGERY. You'll be dead before you take your exam.Imagine how many accidents without the BHPA!!!
The Incompetence of the BHPA has already KILLED (directly & indirectly) many Hundreds of PG pilots, and of course significantly Injured many Thousands of pilots!
Since I taught my self back in the 90's the BHPA have had about 50 DEATHS and a total of about 1,000 pilots 'trained' based on BHPA 'theory' world wide have DIED!
The BEST thing that could happen to the sport would the be BHPA to be forced by the courts to shut down!
TWO BHPA schools have been FORCED to close this year already!
whats the idea of the F16 helmet its a paraglider your flying not a jet,
and you seem very quick to slate the BHPAs training,why i dont know? i am a totally self taught paraglider pilot from north of scotland (local site knockfarrel)and when it comes to sitting my club pilot or pilot exam i will be sitting it with the BHPA.if your methods are that good then why dont the bhpa accept them and maybe either start using them themselves or intgrate your methods into there training.
Hi raa57 I had this m/c helmet direct from the manufacturer as it was not legal for UK use at the time, a 'PG helmet' would quickly fall apart if used as a helmet mount with the video & still cameras avaliable then!
I do NOT like incompetent groups like the BHPA simply due to the damage they do to the sport as a result of their appaling accident, injury & death rates!
To change the BHPA would need to admit to face up to their LIABLITY over around 80 deaths and THOUSANDS of injured pilots...!
@murrayhay ok gat ya!i remember trying to get onboard footage with steel conduit bolted to underseat and a 1.2kg camera on the end of it.LOL.
didnt realise the bhpa had so many deaths and injurys on there hands to be honest.
i have noticed that a lot of bhpa trained pilots i meet up here arent to hot with there ground handling skills.i thought that was what you learnt first,BEFORE being allowed to fly..
@murrayhay ok gat ya!i remember trying to get onboard footage with steel conduit bolted to underseat and a 1.2kg camera on the end of it.LOL.
didnt realise the bhpa had so many deaths and injurys on there hands to be honest.
i have noticed that a lot of bhpa trained pilots i meet up here arent to hot with there ground handling skills.i thought that was what you learnt first,BEFORE being allowed to fly..no vids of me G/H but if you type in"knockfarel" thats me with 4/5 BHPA pilots watching
Audio (comments etc.) can only be added during editing...
Also there is a LOT of background science that MUST be fully understood before students practice (in more 'reasonable' winds!!!) this stuff.
NOTE: 95% of what I teach DIRECTLY CONTRADICTS what groups like the BHPA 'teach'.. which goes a long way to explaining why in 2009 the BHPA had SEVEN DEATHS... and we have had very few injuries in 12+ years / thousands of hours flying time!!!
Hi Eric filmed this a number of years ago, filming is at the sloping field just below our (private) 4x4 parking field, at the bottom of Bishop Hill in Fife (4 miles west of Kinross / Milnathort, M90) Scotland.
I can't remember if this was B4 or after we had been flying the main hill in much lighter winds, but as you can see from the patches of snow it was prob Feb/March, I guess some time in the early 2000's (old Hi 8 tape captured to PC in 2007)
I STRONGLY advise pilots NOT to use the A riser and 'opposite' brake as there are two significant risks....
1) HIGH risk in strong conditions of damage to your wing!
2) Very, VERY high risk of of injury to the pilot!
NOTE: A + opposite brake will make the wing SPIN (helicopter) it is fairly easy on a slope to spin the wing a number of times resulting in a 'LOCKED' riser/brake situation.... if the pilot is then lifted off the ground serious injury/death is likely!
A number of Fast Jet student pilots who had started their 'jet' training on fast prop aircraft (on the prop trainer the flaps need to be altered from 'landing' to 'climb' during a 'Touch & Go') where the FLAPS lever happend to be in the same position & of a similar shape to the UNDERCARRAGE lever on their first (training) JET aircraft.. Resulting in a number of instances (Unsafe Regression) when they altered the 'FLAPS' (actually retracting the wheels!) ended up skidding the jet 'belly down'
On SOME four risers gliders the 'Safety Riser' is the C risers... while on other four riser gliders the safety is instead the D risers....
The only way to find out which is to test the glider...
The KEY to use of the 'Safety Risers' is the 'ballance point' so the pilot with tension on the A's & B's VIA THE HARNESS... also has JUST enough (not too much/too little) 'Safety Riser' held in..
The aim is to make a 'dam' with the wing to force air up/wing down!
Hi Taz, the 'Safety Riser' (depends on the wing) is generaly the C Riser, but can be D's
As I teach pilots who may fly (or go in to fly) 4 OR 3 riser design so we use the term 'Safety Riser' to ensure there are no 'Regression' issues as would happen teaching saying 'C's or D's.
A good aviation example of NOT using solid HP&L training was seen in the case of fast jet students on 'Touch & Go' retracting wheels on runway due to being (in prop aircraft) used to reaching for the flap lever!
Gee a surprise... the scum that promote the BHPA (despite their appaling accident, injury & death rates..) are creating yet more Fake/Spam names to add 'noise' to YouTube... strange they never mention how many pilots the BHPA have killed through incompetent 'instruction'...
Yet another Fake/Spam BHPA scum 'pilot' load of crap...
The one 'good' thing about the BHPA is the high chance of ending up as an accident stat is now fairly well known.. As this scum 'pilot' puts it Caver Emptor... IF you wish to suffer 'normal' accident, injury & death rates the BHPA have 'instructors' who will sign you off as 'qualified' (rated) with as little as TWENTY MINS airtime!
The problem with that method is it often results in a hospital visit....
While pulling the trailing edge (in medium/fresh conditions) to the pilot will eventually work... in most occasions this simply first vastly increasing the drag... then results in the whole wing lifting to thrash about as air gets under the wing..
IF the wind is not too strong in time the wing MAY be under control..
The 'Safety Risers' however 1) always work 2) FORCES the wing into good ground contact!
Using a 'A Line collapse' does work but it is a 'unforgiving' (high risk) method of getting the wing down... that said a bit like catching a tiger by the tail.... IF you drop the wing by EASING (not 'pulling') on A's do NOT simply release them until the wing is 'dead'!
'Normal' PG training injures & kills 'pilots' not just due to it being based on numerous errors but also due to the vast gaps and 'lacks' in training i.e. they 'Fail to train'
Talking to a Welsh instructor last month he mentioned they get (BHPA) 'trained', CP 'rated' pilots turn up who have a TOTAL of 20 mins airtime!
(Wise?) So why 'blame' 'pilots' for the failings of Instructors?
I did some top up training at North YORKSHIRE 15 years ago ,I camped down there for 2 weeks flew for about 20 minutes was signed of as club pilot what is the saying about fat dumb and happy!!Mostly the sites were blown out,so not all their fault.
thanks for your quick email response. I also have recently upgraded my wing and now have 4 risers instead of 3 so am having to play about a bit to see what works best .Many thanks keep up the postings .
'Launch mode Safety Risers' (flight intended) = the rear (D) risers, held in the hand on that side (right hand LEFT WING D riser)
'Full Safety mode Safety Riser' (Intention to 'Kill' the wing) the C risers (one in each hand) note as the C's are often 'floating' this takes a certain amount of PRE-planning to use!
Murray Hay
Note: some of my clips show this with both the 3 and the 4 riser set ups (Nova X-Ray is a '4')
I imagine that we are talking about a reverse inflation here!!I was a BHPA pupil on the Lomonds about 20 years ago.must have about 5 hours air-time now!!Cheers Alan
Yes, even in zero wind I teach students to use the reverse launch 99% of the time as it is both safer and of course more efficent (less effort/less running/less 'runway' etc.)
I have a slight connection with that school... A couple of years ago I sold the schools (safe stuff only!) PG equipment for the brother of the Fife instructor to raise some money (about 700 pounds) for his kids, their dad having passed away about 3 years after his bad PG accident.
Re five hours.. Paul did that on his first day flight training with me!
My (current) record for a re-training BHPA student switching to train with me is 54 hours at the end of the course (over 3 months)!
The lowest hours for a BHPA EP&CP 'pilot' coming to me was Duncan, in TWO years training he had flown 40 mins! Mind you I was recently told by a Welsh PG instructor they had a 'qualified' BHPA CP turn up with a TOTAL of 20 mins airtime... he had paid about 1,300 pounds for his 'training'!
NOTE: 'safety risers' on a FOUR riser wing = C risers to Crease & STALL. 4 riser gliders mean safety risers in the 'Downwind/up-slope' procedure will ALWAYS involve use of the 'rear risers' (i.e. the D risers) NOT EVER the C risers as used for high wind. With a tail wind you are aiming for a totaly diffrent aerodynamic effects...that is a FULLY flying ('clean wing') aerofoil generating lift to reduce your ground speed down to the base wind speed (or even less!)!
I have demonstrated many 100's of times how to SAFELY do a TAIL WIND (this clip is NOT a 'Tail Wind' demo!) landing, it involves a TOTALY diffrent procedure to what is shown here.
Poor (i.e. standard training) is dangerous for two main reasons:
1) the content of the training
2) the lack of safety training... that is 'Fail to train and you are training to fail!
Pilot CHOSSEN 'Tail wind landings' are often FAR safer than a normal into wind landing in many situations in paragliding.
I dont understand landing with a tail wind,would your speed over the ground plus air speed not cause landing to be dangerous.I cant run at 20 mph. or am I missing something.
If you are landing with say a 10 kt TAIL wind then the GS on landing APPROACH would be 30kts (about 36mph NOT just 20 mph) BUT using the safety procedure ('Rear Riser Flare') the pilot can reduce the TOUCH DOWN speed to about 20kts (24mph)..
NOTE: THIS CLIP is a demo of use of the SAFETY RISERS, with a INTO WIND landing and with a NEGATIVE ground speed... i.e. the WIND SPEED is greater than the TRIM SPEED of the glider.
Ok. Thanks. It's that I got my new OZONE Vibe few weeks ago, and I thought that I was using wrong lines :) It's a buig difference between EDEl Space, and OZONE Vibe.
In this case yes, it is IMPORTANT to understand that while using B lines will 'kill' the wing it will also in general result in the wing remaining up (typ. about 30-45*) and generate significant drag, instead use "Safety risers" (C's OR D's, wing dependant)
Cheers, helpful..
carot2003 6 months ago
HELLO raa57.I have never heard such rubbish. A self-taught pilot is about as silly as self taught BRAIN SURGERY. You'll be dead before you take your exam.Imagine how many accidents without the BHPA!!!
borderbrains 8 months ago
The Incompetence of the BHPA has already KILLED (directly & indirectly) many Hundreds of PG pilots, and of course significantly Injured many Thousands of pilots!
Since I taught my self back in the 90's the BHPA have had about 50 DEATHS and a total of about 1,000 pilots 'trained' based on BHPA 'theory' world wide have DIED!
The BEST thing that could happen to the sport would the be BHPA to be forced by the courts to shut down!
TWO BHPA schools have been FORCED to close this year already!
murrayhay 8 months ago
whats the idea of the F16 helmet its a paraglider your flying not a jet,
and you seem very quick to slate the BHPAs training,why i dont know? i am a totally self taught paraglider pilot from north of scotland (local site knockfarrel)and when it comes to sitting my club pilot or pilot exam i will be sitting it with the BHPA.if your methods are that good then why dont the bhpa accept them and maybe either start using them themselves or intgrate your methods into there training.
raa57 1 year ago
Hi raa57 I had this m/c helmet direct from the manufacturer as it was not legal for UK use at the time, a 'PG helmet' would quickly fall apart if used as a helmet mount with the video & still cameras avaliable then!
I do NOT like incompetent groups like the BHPA simply due to the damage they do to the sport as a result of their appaling accident, injury & death rates!
To change the BHPA would need to admit to face up to their LIABLITY over around 80 deaths and THOUSANDS of injured pilots...!
murrayhay 1 year ago
@murrayhay ok gat ya!i remember trying to get onboard footage with steel conduit bolted to underseat and a 1.2kg camera on the end of it.LOL.
didnt realise the bhpa had so many deaths and injurys on there hands to be honest.
i have noticed that a lot of bhpa trained pilots i meet up here arent to hot with there ground handling skills.i thought that was what you learnt first,BEFORE being allowed to fly..
raa57 1 year ago
@murrayhay ok gat ya!i remember trying to get onboard footage with steel conduit bolted to underseat and a 1.2kg camera on the end of it.LOL.
didnt realise the bhpa had so many deaths and injurys on there hands to be honest.
i have noticed that a lot of bhpa trained pilots i meet up here arent to hot with there ground handling skills.i thought that was what you learnt first,BEFORE being allowed to fly..no vids of me G/H but if you type in"knockfarel" thats me with 4/5 BHPA pilots watching
raa57 1 year ago
:) xd
MrAddzsi 1 year ago
commentary would be welcome
commandro 1 year ago
Hi commandro
Audio (comments etc.) can only be added during editing...
Also there is a LOT of background science that MUST be fully understood before students practice (in more 'reasonable' winds!!!) this stuff.
NOTE: 95% of what I teach DIRECTLY CONTRADICTS what groups like the BHPA 'teach'.. which goes a long way to explaining why in 2009 the BHPA had SEVEN DEATHS... and we have had very few injuries in 12+ years / thousands of hours flying time!!!
murrayhay 1 year ago
@murrayhay yes, i agree. you can warn people at the beginning of the video ;)
but some of us who are familiar with soaring might find it useful.
here in holland soaring is the only way to fly unaided
commandro 1 year ago
where did u get this footage. Love the really old stuff. cool to see.
mrbradgeary 2 years ago
Hi Eric filmed this a number of years ago, filming is at the sloping field just below our (private) 4x4 parking field, at the bottom of Bishop Hill in Fife (4 miles west of Kinross / Milnathort, M90) Scotland.
I can't remember if this was B4 or after we had been flying the main hill in much lighter winds, but as you can see from the patches of snow it was prob Feb/March, I guess some time in the early 2000's (old Hi 8 tape captured to PC in 2007)
murrayhay 2 years ago
1st wind is not strong
2nd if wind was strong - you wold be drag well back as you did not relese one brake after colapse - otherwise canopy will act like inflated parachute.
janeqmx 2 years ago
@janeqmx Question what do YOU describe as Strong Wind for PG??
While that day the wind was 16-20kts... the clip is TITLED 'Some strong wind TRICKS to kill the wing'!
NB the TEXT states that these PROCEDURES are for use in NEGATIVE GND Speed conditions!
Brakes are NOT of any use.. which is why I teach use of Safety Risers in fresh to strong conditions!
Using Safety Risers makes handling 20+kts with NO DRAG very easy!
murrayhay 2 years ago
Great video, but the wind noise blocks the voice. Have you considered doing a "voice-over" to explain exactly what is happening? TY
groganzolla1 2 years ago
Hi once up-loaded I can't add new audio track, I've started adding extra sound 'notation' on some of the latest clips..
murrayhay 2 years ago
Excellent! I understand. Thank you.
Encourage and be encouraged...
Please keep those videos coming.
groganzolla1 2 years ago
A riser and opposite brake works beautifully! Thanks for the advice!
smad333 2 years ago
I STRONGLY advise pilots NOT to use the A riser and 'opposite' brake as there are two significant risks....
1) HIGH risk in strong conditions of damage to your wing!
2) Very, VERY high risk of of injury to the pilot!
NOTE: A + opposite brake will make the wing SPIN (helicopter) it is fairly easy on a slope to spin the wing a number of times resulting in a 'LOCKED' riser/brake situation.... if the pilot is then lifted off the ground serious injury/death is likely!
murrayhay 2 years ago
A number of Fast Jet student pilots who had started their 'jet' training on fast prop aircraft (on the prop trainer the flaps need to be altered from 'landing' to 'climb' during a 'Touch & Go') where the FLAPS lever happend to be in the same position & of a similar shape to the UNDERCARRAGE lever on their first (training) JET aircraft.. Resulting in a number of instances (Unsafe Regression) when they altered the 'FLAPS' (actually retracting the wheels!) ended up skidding the jet 'belly down'
murrayhay 2 years ago
NOTE: This is important!
On SOME four risers gliders the 'Safety Riser' is the C risers... while on other four riser gliders the safety is instead the D risers....
The only way to find out which is to test the glider...
The KEY to use of the 'Safety Risers' is the 'ballance point' so the pilot with tension on the A's & B's VIA THE HARNESS... also has JUST enough (not too much/too little) 'Safety Riser' held in..
The aim is to make a 'dam' with the wing to force air up/wing down!
murrayhay 2 years ago
Hi Taz, the 'Safety Riser' (depends on the wing) is generaly the C Riser, but can be D's
As I teach pilots who may fly (or go in to fly) 4 OR 3 riser design so we use the term 'Safety Riser' to ensure there are no 'Regression' issues as would happen teaching saying 'C's or D's.
A good aviation example of NOT using solid HP&L training was seen in the case of fast jet students on 'Touch & Go' retracting wheels on runway due to being (in prop aircraft) used to reaching for the flap lever!
murrayhay 2 years ago
Gee a surprise... the scum that promote the BHPA (despite their appaling accident, injury & death rates..) are creating yet more Fake/Spam names to add 'noise' to YouTube... strange they never mention how many pilots the BHPA have killed through incompetent 'instruction'...
murrayhay 2 years ago
Yet another Fake/Spam BHPA scum 'pilot' load of crap...
The one 'good' thing about the BHPA is the high chance of ending up as an accident stat is now fairly well known.. As this scum 'pilot' puts it Caver Emptor... IF you wish to suffer 'normal' accident, injury & death rates the BHPA have 'instructors' who will sign you off as 'qualified' (rated) with as little as TWENTY MINS airtime!
murrayhay 2 years ago
The problem with that method is it often results in a hospital visit....
While pulling the trailing edge (in medium/fresh conditions) to the pilot will eventually work... in most occasions this simply first vastly increasing the drag... then results in the whole wing lifting to thrash about as air gets under the wing..
IF the wind is not too strong in time the wing MAY be under control..
The 'Safety Risers' however 1) always work 2) FORCES the wing into good ground contact!
murrayhay 2 years ago
Would it help if I will pull my A lines? And by the ground, use my controls?
ParaglidingManiac 3 years ago
Using a 'A Line collapse' does work but it is a 'unforgiving' (high risk) method of getting the wing down... that said a bit like catching a tiger by the tail.... IF you drop the wing by EASING (not 'pulling') on A's do NOT simply release them until the wing is 'dead'!
murrayhay 3 years ago
"Pilot CHOSSEN 'Tail wind landings' are often FAR safer than a normal into wind landing in many situations in paragliding." Murray Hay
really like when....?
paraglenner 3 years ago
Hi Scott, is the bull avaliable as burgers yet? (Hope you get better soon)
Tail wind landings safer than landing into wind in the following (there are many more situations):
Low to land and thermic induced tail wind.
Obstacle avoidance (i.e. safer option)
Aircraft avoidance (mid air situation)
Some types of water landings
'U' or 'V' shaped valley landings (airflow 90* to 'pressure' wind direction.
Etc, etc, your instructor should have covered the common situations with you!
murrayhay 3 years ago
I confidently predict an Italian will be munching bull beef come Christmas. Thank you for the good wishes.
"Low to land and thermic induced tail wind" not really chosing then, but maywell have to make a downwind landing.
The others are examples of pilot induced errors and not a position to get into in the first instance. So arguably not really wise choices
paraglenner 3 years ago
'Pilot induced errors' in ones sense, i.e. the 'pilot error' can be another pilot making the error that endangers your aircraft!
In the same way a rapid change in the air (wind/lift/sink) can place a pilot into the situation where it is FAR safer to Down Wind Land (or up-slope)
Note: examples are ALL of course typical BHPA accident types!
The thing about understanding the physics of PG flight is it makes landing down wind + up slope SAFE & EASY! (PG 'Fly on Wall' with 31kts GS on GPS!)
murrayhay 3 years ago
Quote 'So arguably not really wise choices'
'Fair to train and you are training to fail'
'Normal' PG training injures & kills 'pilots' not just due to it being based on numerous errors but also due to the vast gaps and 'lacks' in training i.e. they 'Fail to train'
Talking to a Welsh instructor last month he mentioned they get (BHPA) 'trained', CP 'rated' pilots turn up who have a TOTAL of 20 mins airtime!
(Wise?) So why 'blame' 'pilots' for the failings of Instructors?
murrayhay 3 years ago
Very sad to hear of this death.I did not know ."rest in peace"
alamcculloch 3 years ago
I did some top up training at North YORKSHIRE 15 years ago ,I camped down there for 2 weeks flew for about 20 minutes was signed of as club pilot what is the saying about fat dumb and happy!!Mostly the sites were blown out,so not all their fault.
alamcculloch 3 years ago
thanks for your quick email response. I also have recently upgraded my wing and now have 4 risers instead of 3 so am having to play about a bit to see what works best .Many thanks keep up the postings .
ALAN MCCULLOCH.
alamcculloch 3 years ago
A general rule... (4 riser gliders ONLY)
'Launch mode Safety Risers' (flight intended) = the rear (D) risers, held in the hand on that side (right hand LEFT WING D riser)
'Full Safety mode Safety Riser' (Intention to 'Kill' the wing) the C risers (one in each hand) note as the C's are often 'floating' this takes a certain amount of PRE-planning to use!
Murray Hay
Note: some of my clips show this with both the 3 and the 4 riser set ups (Nova X-Ray is a '4')
murrayhay 3 years ago
I imagine that we are talking about a reverse inflation here!!I was a BHPA pupil on the Lomonds about 20 years ago.must have about 5 hours air-time now!!Cheers Alan
alamcculloch 3 years ago
Yes, even in zero wind I teach students to use the reverse launch 99% of the time as it is both safer and of course more efficent (less effort/less running/less 'runway' etc.)
I have a slight connection with that school... A couple of years ago I sold the schools (safe stuff only!) PG equipment for the brother of the Fife instructor to raise some money (about 700 pounds) for his kids, their dad having passed away about 3 years after his bad PG accident.
murrayhay 3 years ago
Re five hours.. Paul did that on his first day flight training with me!
My (current) record for a re-training BHPA student switching to train with me is 54 hours at the end of the course (over 3 months)!
The lowest hours for a BHPA EP&CP 'pilot' coming to me was Duncan, in TWO years training he had flown 40 mins! Mind you I was recently told by a Welsh PG instructor they had a 'qualified' BHPA CP turn up with a TOTAL of 20 mins airtime... he had paid about 1,300 pounds for his 'training'!
murrayhay 3 years ago
a very important clip. the safty risers are the same risers one uses in a tail wind landing too.
ticoglider 3 years ago
NOTE: 'safety risers' on a FOUR riser wing = C risers to Crease & STALL. 4 riser gliders mean safety risers in the 'Downwind/up-slope' procedure will ALWAYS involve use of the 'rear risers' (i.e. the D risers) NOT EVER the C risers as used for high wind. With a tail wind you are aiming for a totaly diffrent aerodynamic effects...that is a FULLY flying ('clean wing') aerofoil generating lift to reduce your ground speed down to the base wind speed (or even less!)!
murrayhay 3 years ago
tail wind landings are very dangerous and best avoided there is just to much that can go wrong.
alamcculloch 3 years ago
I have demonstrated many 100's of times how to SAFELY do a TAIL WIND (this clip is NOT a 'Tail Wind' demo!) landing, it involves a TOTALY diffrent procedure to what is shown here.
Poor (i.e. standard training) is dangerous for two main reasons:
1) the content of the training
2) the lack of safety training... that is 'Fail to train and you are training to fail!
Pilot CHOSSEN 'Tail wind landings' are often FAR safer than a normal into wind landing in many situations in paragliding.
murrayhay 3 years ago
I dont understand landing with a tail wind,would your speed over the ground plus air speed not cause landing to be dangerous.I cant run at 20 mph. or am I missing something.
alamcculloch 3 years ago
If you are landing with say a 10 kt TAIL wind then the GS on landing APPROACH would be 30kts (about 36mph NOT just 20 mph) BUT using the safety procedure ('Rear Riser Flare') the pilot can reduce the TOUCH DOWN speed to about 20kts (24mph)..
NOTE: THIS CLIP is a demo of use of the SAFETY RISERS, with a INTO WIND landing and with a NEGATIVE ground speed... i.e. the WIND SPEED is greater than the TRIM SPEED of the glider.
murrayhay 3 years ago
Ok. Thanks. It's that I got my new OZONE Vibe few weeks ago, and I thought that I was using wrong lines :) It's a buig difference between EDEl Space, and OZONE Vibe.
ParaglidingManiac 4 years ago
Did you pulled B lines in the beginning of video?
ParaglidingManiac 4 years ago
In this case yes, it is IMPORTANT to understand that while using B lines will 'kill' the wing it will also in general result in the wing remaining up (typ. about 30-45*) and generate significant drag, instead use "Safety risers" (C's OR D's, wing dependant)
murrayhay 4 years ago
Excellent study of techniques which can get you out of the sh*t when needed.
flyingdan111 4 years ago