March through Main Street Plaza at Kiss-In, Salt Lake City

[snowzknight]

That's nice... more bullshit from useless sheep. I love how it's always some long haired moron who starts it.

It's a fucking church, at what point did you think they were going to accept it? Wrong or not, it's their views and their property... Remember like not even 100 years ago when your parents were against it? But now I think the bigger problem is the whole "PC or go home"... I'm not PC in the slightest but people are so socially scared to be otherwise it's pathetic. Get your own opinions.

[Twarrior4]

Hey it's great that other people are contributing, especially institutions that have a lot of money. It's not really a competition though. However the LDS church has a huge welfare program set up to take care of its members, that probably wasn't included in the stats. But does benefit the Government by no small amount. The church also does things world-wide where ever the help is needed suchas Africa, Tsunami Victims, Earthquake victims, etc... I think it's awesome that everyone is helping

[jmshaw357]

This may be the most pitiful 'march' I have ever seen. It's hard to get up much emotion if there is no bogey man to rage against. All I see here is a few overt fags walking along with some gawkers, curiosity seekers, and a lot of kind people (locals) standing around. The demonstrators accomplished what they usually accomplish--they make themselves look like fools.

[bbennett39]

Well it obviously helped get through to a lot of people. Even prosecutors said the church didnt have any sort of fight and they would not be prosecuting anybody. It is strange how after the court stuff was over, they interviewed the group who held the March. So is your opinion really valued right now my friend?

[Unklebillybob]

Take a couple of minutes and research 'Laws of Trespassing' It's not my opinion, it's the law. DS

[bbennett39]

So where was the law to charge these men? If they were breaking the law wouldnt they have been punished. obviously they were detailed during the little tiff, but other than that nothing was done. The court said they felt the men were not out of line. So maybe you should learn the law before you call somebody DS. You obviously dont really know much about what your talking about. So blow me DS

[Unklebillybob]

I know the law. They refused to leave private property, therefore they were trespassing. But to give you a couple of examples:

1) If these two were in a bar and they were asked to leave, for whatever reason, but refused to comply,they could be charged with trespassing.

2) If, during hunting season, these two were found on private property, were asked to leave and they refused to leave that private property they could be charged with trespassing.

As with the LDS property,End of discussion

[bbennett39]

I dont think you understand where i am going with this. I do know the law. I understand they COULD have been charged. But the problem was, they were discriminating against these people. That to is against the law. Did you watch the video of these men? They were sitting on a bench together when they were approached. They were approached because they were gay. A bar could get sued if they kicked people out because they were gay. Learn that law douche bag. The church was in the wrong

[bbennett39]

Did you know the church doesnt even own that one part of property? It is basically like they are paying rent there. They own everything around the plaza, but they dont actually own the plaza walkway. But since they pay rent, they are allowed to make rules. Which these people didnt break any of. There are no signs posted saying no kissing your loved one. There is not a sign saying "gay people not allowed." So which law are they breaking? Why didnt they get charged with anything?

[Unklebillybob]

You need to accomplish better research. The LDS Church purchased this property, Period. The benches these visitors were sitting, the plants, the trees the walkways, are all owned by the LDS Church.

Therefore, when asked to leave, and they refused, they were then trespassing.

If you want to know why they weren't charged with anything, ask the LDS Church.

[bbennett39]

billy, i dont think you understand, i simply dont care about this topic anymore...it is old news and whats done is done. Nothing is going to change now. I have my opinion and you have yours. You have no idea how much information in know or dont know about this topic. I simply just dont care to discuss with you. You tried proving your point. I hope you feel like your accomplished now. Good Job.

[bbennett39]

And Twarrior, Paying to change a law after it has gone into effect, is against your sacred scripture...so why is that okay? Why couldnt you guys support the difference and let them be married? Would it have changed your daily life? Probably not. I hope you end up with a gay child or brother and realize all you want in life is for them to be happy. Maybe you would see things from a not so CULT point of view. Im sick of mormons running my god damn state. thats why i left the church.

[JeremyAdams2009]

They may have not been trying to be offensive but, it is to us mormons. They know it and so they should have respected our views, and left the property when asked to.

[bbennett39]

Why cant you respect their views jeremy? I am not trying to be mean or anything but look at prop 8. You guys did everything in your power to take away their Freedom like you want to have with your religion. If you feel its okay to take away their sexual freedom, why cant we take your freedom of religion away? Why dont you show them some respect? Why couldnt you let the men kiss and drink and let it be over with? Instead you disrespect and caused a huge problem to two friends of mine.

[Twarrior4]

The LDS church did everything in its power to defend its religious views and rights. The gays did everything in their power for their views. The people voted and the gays lost. But the attacks continue The church shouldn't have to stand by and watch, while people publicly offend its teachings on its own property. I respect gays, I don't have anything against a gay person. They however publicly disrespected me. The men caused this problem themselves, they could have easily avoided it.

[bbennett39]

they didnt do everything in their power. This incident wouldnt have destroyed the church or hurt the church in any way to where they needed to defend themselves. Them kissing or groping wouldnt have effected you in the slightest and now it is all blown out of proportion. It was the church's right yes, but you know nothing about these men, and i promise you they were not intending to offend or disrepect the church or others. Stop judging my friend. that is a huge lesson you should have known

[jerrydoubleu]

the church has attacked and continues to attack. Of course gays respond.

[JeremyAdams2009]

Freedom of Religion. We mormons go to the temple as a sacred place to get away from the world. And the whole tax thing. Why should we pay taxes when other religions don't?

[p1emaker]

It is a fact that two homosexuals kissing is offensive to Mormons. There would likely be no problem with a heterosexual couple kissing on the cheek. However, this privately owned property is considered to be sacred to us. Homosexual activity on it is a desecration. Sorry - We don't like it. Why is it so en vogue to disparage the Mormons over their beliefs? You don't find us protesting at your gay rallies. You don't want to accept our views. We don't want to accept yours.

[bbennett39]

first off most of the people at the rally were straight. Second, if you did come to one of our rallies, i can guarantee you wouldnt be arrested or told to leave because of that. There is the difference. I have smoked and drank on that walk way and never got any trouble...but two gay guys go in there and you act like it is a terrorist attack. Why didnt i get in trouble for smoking? I know you guys disagree with that also.

[Twarrior4]

Well more of the story has come out that you appearantly don't know about. The men were "passionately kissing" (makingout) and groping each other. They also had alcohol on their breath and refused to stop, leave, or comply with the police. It wasn't just a simple kiss like the gay agenda makes it seem. The church knows not everyone is LDS that walks through there and they don't want to bug everyone about smoking. However a display like that is unacceptable in any public setting. Disagree?

[mdjbm]

what a bunch of morons. it must be a pretty pathetic life, when your entire identity comes down to what you stick your penis into.

[dortmundpls]

If you want an unbiased view of what went on see "2 people arrested for kiss on LDS property". The police officer reports on that video, that the original "kissers" refused to leave the property when asked, and that is why they were arrested, for trespass, not for kissing. If they would have respected the church's request to act according to the church's rules, no problem, but they had to make an issue out of it. Cry babies.

[getstakerized]

It would be interesting to look at how the church gets its money, some of which I would term 'spiritual extortion,' but that's another subject.

The completely peaceable assembly didn't include any angry epithets, seemed to serve pretty well to point out the hypocrisy in Church policy of NO public display of affection, and also the out of hand security handcuffing and throwing someone to the ground--for the act of kissing?!! Give me a break!!

[Twarrior4]

The church gets its money from tithing, fast offerings (both of these "spiritual extortions" are found in the bible) and from other donations.

There is no such thing as peaceable offending.

[bbennett39]

Ha ha i would have to agree about the extortion. If you guys arent willing to pay the fee, your not accepted. You cant bless your sacrament, baptisms for the dead or go to the temple for any other reason. That is a requirement for you to do to obtain blessings my friend and you know it. Also, why would you bring up the bible, your religion is against most of the bible...hence your book of mormon. I was raised mormon and they dont think highly of the bible unless they need to for the moment.

[Twarrior4]

Tell me any part that is against the Bible. I garuntee you won't find any because the Book of Mormon supports the Bible, and believe it or not the Bible supports the Book of Mormon. I am Mormon and I'm telling you we do think highly of the bible, we refer to it as sacred scripture. I don't want to sound like I jerk because I don't hate you or have anything against you but you know this, so I don't know why you're making stuff up.

[bbennett39]

There obviously isnt anything in writing that says not to read the bible...it is in the teachers and bishops that say they dont believe that is the real and only word of god.  Yes they believe some of it, but they teach based on the b of m...i have had many sunday school teachers saying the first source is always the b of m because they feel the bible has been tampered with and the b of m is more true and pure. Come on man, you know that the bible isnt anything to you compared to the b of m.

[Twarrior4]

According to Mormon belief the Book of Mormon was translated once by the power of God. Thus it is a good source of truth. Pastors and Ministers of almost every religion will tell you that over time there have been mistakes, and mistranslations in the Bible. We believe the Bible to be the word of God as far as it is translated correctly, just like most religions. Which version do you want me to read since there are lots of different versions with different words? I love and read the Bible.

[Twarrior4]

The church has owned property in Utah since it became a state. The property belongs to the church because they paid for it, thus they have a right to set guidelines for what goes on on the property. The problem is that the intent of the gay community was to offend, and show defiance which is its usual intent to ward the LDS church.

[bbennett39]

And how exactly do you know what these gay guys were thinking? is there a chance, maybe just slightly that they only wanted to kiss like a normal couple does. Why would you assume they are trying to offend? You dont think the mormon posters telling gays to stay off the property and keep homosexuality out of their religion is offensive? come on twat warrior

[Twarrior4]

If they want to kiss like normal couples as you suggested they can do that anywhere in the world, but don't come those places that are sacred to me to shove an agenda in my face. That's how I know they are purposely offending. Those posters peacefully defended mormon rights from not gays, just gay activists who wanted to makeout on private property. The gays ignored the signs anyway and came to the plaza. My ancestors came here to escape persecution, and you advocate it to my door again.

[bbennett39]

Whoa dude...an agenda? who said they were there for any agenda? They were passing through. And sure they may have made out and had alcohol, but who cares. Thats still not a reason for the actions. And of course the church is going to make a statement saying that sort of thing. They arent going to let their appearance look as though they beat up gay men. I know the two involved dude. They were there passing through, screw the agenda thought and realize it is wrong.

[Twarrior4]

Yes, I would say they have an agenda if the gays organize a group to protest the LDS church. That's weird that the 2 men were "passing through" like you said, because they refused to leave. So it wasn't much of an in and out action was it? Look at the police report, it's open to the public. The men claimed to have been slammed down, but there was not a scratch or bruise to be found hmmm.... The church had every right to make the men leave the private property, surely you can't disagree.

[bbennett39]

This argument is going nowhere.  I am not trying to put you down or anything. We simply just dont see eye to eye. I wish you realized that the agenda you speak of would have been avoided completely if you had left them alone. There is nothing more to it. Did you know those gay men used to be mormon? And they still believe in a lot of those teachings? I am not saying the church didnt have the right to do what they did, but i think it should have been let go. This would all be over with

[Unklebillybob]

The entire situation could have been avoided if the two Plaza Guests, knowing they were on private property, apologized and simply left.

But, that was not to be the case. Someone had empowered them to run their mouth, because they had their rights to flaunt their sexual preference,,, So the whole world to see.

The LDS Church has it's rights too. It can deny anyone admission to it's property, or ask any one to leave, at any time they want.

[bbennett39]

Thank you for explaining that. I see things so clearly now. They should have just left. But if the church is the right, then why is it that even the prosecuters dont see them in any sort of violation. They had the tape....and still felt the church was out of line. Maybe you should spread your wisdom to them since it is so powerful.

[dortmundpls]

I believe it's not allowed for anyone to display acts of affection there, including straights. If this is not true, please reply and let me know.

[getstakerized]

Sure, technically no public display of affection, but go there any day & see how many male/female couples are holding hands/kissing. Hell, they take wedding photos kissing outside the temple!

[cryan71]

So this plaza is technically outside of Temple Square? Why does the Mormon Church own a public thoroughfare?

[eriqkk]

No, you are WRONG. Churches are given tax-free status in the U.S., which is a violation of Separation of Church and State. Churches (religious institutions) are given special status, and are NOT private property because they pay NO taxes.

[Twarrior4]

That is terrible logic. I guess that means I can go into any post office or any other government building and do whatever I want because they don't pay taxes. The property is private, no argument. The church has its own welfare program that saves the government millions of dollars because the church supports it's own members. Compare the amount of money the church saves the government, with the pitiful tax you want it to pay.

[eriqkk]

Not terrible logic, and you're completely wrong, twaarrior-o.

Churches should pay taxes just like any other honorable institution, and in fact MORE, because there is separation of Church and State in this country.

The amount paid would hardly be "pitiful." Think again.

[bbennett39]

the churchs welfare program doesnt compare to the governments, and the money saved is very minimal becuase mormons arent a very big population. Give me numbers on how the church is actually helping save money for the country. Most of the church's money goes to temples anyways. The people on welfare in the church is so small it doesnt even effect the church's budget.

[bbennett39]

I saw a study last night i thought you may be interested in. The Catholic church's Knights of Columbus contribute more to the country than other any religion combined. The mormon church only donates a third of what the catholics do. We talked about it before. I thought i wold share it with you T

[Unklebillybob]

I really love how amateurs throw statistics around.

OK bb - He're are a few statistical questions for you:

1) What is the Catholic Membership number, in the United States?

2) What is the Mormon Membership number, in the United States?

3) What is the difference between the two?

Now, if you're too embarassed to post the correct figures, I'll be happy to do it for you.

[bbennett39]

Catholics has remained steady at about 25 percent for over 50 years, 67,515,016 registered members. There are 12,868,606 worldwide mormon members, 5,779,321 of those living in the United States. Keep in mind i was talking about the knights of columbus...they only have an estimated 1.7 million members. Thats a huge difference...and that group alone gives more than the mormons. did i leave anything out? Did i post my figures well enough for you?

[bbennett39]

billybob, remember that the group i am talking about is the Knights of Columbus...i posted the stats you wanted. But keep in mind, that the Knights of Columbus are Irish Catholic Americans, which makes up a very low percent....a fifth of the Mormon members...so explain it all to me with that in mind.

[Rockwellflats]

Private property should be respected. This is in effect protesting private property rights. All people have the right to own private property and control what happens on their private property. Anything else is disrespecting and violating these constitutional rights.

[lisztnut]

The next time the LDS cult sends their missionaries in white shirts to my front door, I'll remember what you said. I shoudl have them arrested for violating my constitutional right of separation of church and state. They are violating my rights, and offending me...

[Twarrior4]

Here's why you're wrong...  It has to do with intent. The LDS missionaries go out with the intent to help. The purpose of a missionary is "Invite others to come unto Christ by helping them...." That's from the missionary handbook, Preach My Gospel, page 1. notice the words "invite" and "help" the gay handbook appearantly says "force" and "offend".The intent of the gay community was to offend the LDS church, which is the same as your intent.

[bbennett39]

Your church's actions were highly offensive to most people around the united states. I am not gay and i couldnt believe any of this. I have smoked and drank on that property before, which is against your religion and never had a problem. Two gays walk in there and its the worst thing in the world to you guys. This has made national news, and the only channel who actually supports the mormons side is KSL for the most part. My family lives in DC and to the news there, it is a bash on Mormons