Oh my god white people. What have you done to the world in 500 years. You have stunted the development of every other culture, who would have progressed without short-sightedness in those 500 years. Remember that each civilization was on par except for Europe (which was below par) before 500 years.
"Two hours from Miami there is an entire civilization of people praying everyday for your well being. They call themselves the elder brothers, they dismiss the rest of us who have ruined the world as the younger brothers, they cannot understand why it is that we do what we do to the Earth"
In response to -- "If your distinguishing between 'an experience' (what a persons feels and senses) vs. 'experience' (events which happen to something), then rocks have 'experience'."
Participation isn't just what happens to us, it's also what happens because of us. It's not just what we feel and sense, it's also what we choose.
The man talks fast and throws a lot lof arge words out there and we call it being brilliant. I believe a 4 year old could be trained to do this same thing. Put this video in slow motion and really listen to what he is saying and see if it still sounds smart, or if it even makes sense at all.
This comment has received too many negative votesshow
The man talks fast and throws a lot lof arge words out there and we call it being brilliant. I believe a 4 year old could be trained to do this same thing. Put this video in slow motion and really listen to what he is saying and see if it still sounds smart, or if it even makes since at all.
@jon090988 umm..u didnt say anything! statements are not facts ...what is your point? 4yr. old what 4yr. old you know travels the world to objectively observe a culture ?
The man talks fast and throws a lot lof arge words out there and we call it being brilliant. I believe a 4 year old could be trained to do this same thing. Put this video in slow motion and really listen to what he is saying and see if it still sounds smart, or if it even makes since at all.
@jon090988 He believes that the world started with Adam and Eve and is under 100,000 years old. He has many interesting things to say but he is also a crazy person lol
i was a little startled by the speed at first (damn that time limit). i've seen his 'Light at the Edge of the World' series on NatGeo, and read his essay of the same title a year or so ago(the first time i fell in love with an anthropologist); i miss the lyricism, but the key thoughts are definitely here. the six thousand voices as "cultural options" -- if there is one Truth that any/all religion/s should preach, it is that.
(ooh i just wish his books were available here in the philippines.)
He presents all his ideas in a very well organized way, but you can tell he's rushing a bit and he's slightly out of breathe and can't quite fully catch it....
its interesting how he compares western science to buddhism and basically religion. u can find a lot of youtubers especially who have so attached their emotions to that specific specialty of thought(science) that they utterly hate any other form of thought and are absurdly offended when another form of thought even comes up or is given any form of respect. i bet the only reason this doesn't have 5 stars is because he was respectful of other kinds of thought.
Ok first of all, the following statement is bound to upset and enrage certain people, if you are one of them, than either read and think about it or just ignore it and move on. I do not yearn for pity nor salvation.
I think he is so close to make a really important statement, but yet completely misses the point.
YES we ARE technological wizards!
But WE were ones like THEM, though learned to master the usage of the serial processing part of our brains.
They might have mastered the parallel processing better than we, developed some great ideas and are astonishingly well adapted to their habitat, but they lack the ability to free themselves from their mental heritage and identify false positives, to come up with a solid comprehensive theory of the true nature of the world around them, that includes all other cultures.
We need to use are parallel processing to envision the kind of world we want to create and the serial processing to manifest our visions within the real world.
And overall we need to rid ourselves of the baseless assumption that life is suffering, that we gained through imposing wrong assumption of its true nature, and needs to be overcome by a complete rejection of reality.
Ok, so since making these comments I send a link to somebody who is a bit more focused on the emotional site of issue and in the flow of it decided to address the issue again with another transcription, which is less focused on addressing it systematically. I will just go on quote this, which will maybe helpful to some:
What I wanted to say, when I talked of preserving or conserving cultures, was their history and ideas. I did not want to praise or defend them for using superstition and false positives to enforce power and reign over their fellow man.
I just think their passion and abilities can be put to a far better use for all of humanity.
For there are two true statements that do NOT inherently contradicting each other!
Yes, we must not let the world get in the way and distract us from ourselves,
yet we must also not let ourselves get in the way and distract us from the world.
One part of us should strive towards the deep connections, Nirvana for the lack of a better term, while the other should focus on finding out the true nature of our world, reading the mind of God, as our physicists like to say. And they must always try to influence each other, to not lose the view of the greater picture.
The most obvious and striking example I could come up with is about Buddhist:
Just imagine what could be achieved, if we would manage, to get some Mathematicians in, on the education of the boy, that will be chosen as the next Dali Lama and get him in touch with fractal geometry.
Instead of investing hundreds and thousands of hours of their time into constructing Mandala with powders on the grounds of their temples, just to destroy them after the work is done, they could create even more spiritual things, of such a metaphysical quality, that they are infinite, never really exist in physical form, but are eternal in their nature and beauty.
When he quoted the Dali Lama, he said that he cant prove us that he has reached Nirvana, just like we cant prove him that we went to the moon. Now, if we manage to combine our forces we could gain the knowledge to get every single one of us to the moon and into outer space, as well as completely new means to share knowledge, ideas, hopes and dreams directly with one another to reach a connection with everything else.
After a third address, I must argree to one statement:
Yes, I do belief in my worldview, in the sentence, that I have yet to see a fundamental flaw in the rejection of the supernatural and the acceptance of the scientific method.
If you want to deconstruct my statement on this egoistic, self centered view and my passion for a growth in knowledge and understanding, please proof the supernatural to all.
I wish for harmony, but not at the price of falling back into darkness, missery and pain.
are you effing serious? First you talk about a symbiosis of science and the spirit, and then then you throw that away with your last point by finishing with tried old cliches about "darkness, misery and pain." Get it through your head: the big dominator religions of the "civilized" world never have and never will represent the entirety of human spirituality.
Seriously, it sounds like the point of Wade Davis's entire lecture just went over your head.
I have read many of his books and am grateful for his perspectives, he has made a real contribution to this world. I would encourage some of you to, instead of taking cheap shots at wade, actually come up with some original ideas of your own and show us that you have something worthwhile to contribute as well.
no, we do not have all of the answers, nor will we ever, no matter what the 'area'.
no, wade is not an anti-intellectual.
he certainly is not ignorant, nor a liar. he simply is making the viewer aware that there are more than a few ways to perceive what we call reality. And that each one has value; none is a failure.
....more than anyone in the 4000 year history of the planet?
wtf. I was patient with this guy but I have to agree with the people saying that he has an anti-intellectual message even though he has some very interesting stories.
"4000 year history of the plant" p-l-a-n-t, plant.
he was talking about coca, of course, the notorious source of cocaine, and was likely referring to 4000 years of its use by human beings. He is one of the leading western scientists in ethnobotany, which looks at different traditional society's uses of various plants.
if you promote superstition in an area WHERE WE ALREADY HAVE ALL THE ANSWERS, backed up with EVIDENCE, then you are ainti-intellectual. you are arguing against reality, and spreading ``knowledge´´ that just isnt true. if Wade Davis wouldnt be ignorant, he would be a liar.
mkabbz: if you praise and glorify astrology, you are also attacking cosmology. if you preach creationism, you attack evolutionary theory. if you recommend homeopathy, you are taking away the benefits of modern medicine.
i hope that youtube will fix this stupid comment-system.
so instead of posting the comment that i would like to post, i would ask you to: go to liveleak. forget youtube. youtube sucks. the comment-system sucks.
Meditation is awesome, in just a few short sessions I've gained abilities I didn't think were posible, learned things I didn't knew I didn't knew. But to spend decades just meditating is as pointless as spending them locked up in a lab.
Life should be filled with experiences of all sorts.
preservation of language and culture is certainly laudable but truth is more important. it is entirely possible to preserve intimate knowledge of the natural world and diverse and wonderful cultural expression without persisting in superstition and ritual based in stone age ignorance.
I thought this was a fantastic talk. He sounded a bit out of breath or nervous all the time, but I can get past that. It takes a brave man to do a talk highlighting the spiritual values of "primitive" cultures in front of hard-scientists; and pose the question: In the way we are doing things, compared to all these other guys, have we not made some mistakes ?
You are making a fatal error in assuming I haven't considered other cultures from the POV of their residences.
I wouldn't put cultures here mentioned in the inferior category.
What I would place there: slave owning American south, zero-liberty North Korea, intolerant theocracies & women-hostile patriarchies of any age or culture.
Places from which people have RAN AWAY *despite* being indoctrinated into the culture.
Tibetans beat us in mental health & empathy, native Americans beat us in ecology. We should learn these traits from them. This is a comparison of the quality of 2 cultures, where the west is (shock) INFERIOR.
Cultures are not all equal or equally worthy of respect, and money is not the yard stick, Longjevity, health, equality & sustainability maybe.
That is unless you think the societies mentioned in the above comment as bad are/were in fact peachy - In which case you know what you are.
A sane adult man should be executed for leaving Islam. If one cannot make his own mind on the nature of the universe, what can (s)he do at all?
By Sharia law a woman's word is 1/2 the value of a man's & a non-Muslim's word is 1/2 the Muslims. Any set of laws that favors one group over another is by definition unjust.
That you would like such a system go global proves the point that some people & societies *are* better than others.
BTW the same was true, in practice if not in writing, in your beloved Christian Dark Ages.
The west I defend is not Christian at all. It is a recent, hard-won, secular accomplishment of renaissance, revolutions, enlightenment, anti-faschism & ultimately humanism.
I never said it's perfect or even best, just that *most* other things look worse in comparison.
To say one culture is better than another culture implies that people from one culture are better than those of another culture i.e. some people are better than others simply because of where they happened to be born. But to hold this opinion is comparable to holding the worst exclusionary and fundamentalist religious beliefs, and is certainly antithetical to modern Western sensibilities.
Therefore, one culture is not better than another culture.
People of one culture *are* better than people of another, *not* for the accident of birth but the *values* they were brought up with.
If you think no society is better than worse than any other just compare present day & middle age Europe. There is a reason for the terms 'dark age' and 'enlightenment'. The west has the *least dysfunctional* system, becouse we have tried every alternative and learned from painful mistakes. or its present day counterparts like Saudi Arabia.
Yes, that is why I support the global establishment of sharia law - I mean it is not called the 'Decadent West' for nothing.
Recently, there has been an entire reassessment of the so-called Dark Ages. Don't judge too quickly.
Ironically, it is people who claim to support western civilization with the most alacrity who seem most antithetical to its foundation - Christianity.
What will future civilisations say of us? Probably nothing, because there will be nobody around to say anything.
Woah. You need to realize one fatal flaw you are making. That judgment comes from your own cultural indoctrination. You are trained to believe that your culture is superior. You have no other possible way of thinking. It is IMPOSSIBLE...unless, of course, you decide to join a new culture and completely have a brain swipe to not remember your old one.
Then you will have a new belief on which is better. And you won't be able to compare the two, bc you won't remember the old.
As a college educated unbelieving woman born with a heart defect, who would be either dead, mutilated, illiterate or regarded inferior in most societies in history, I rightfully say the west has nothing to be ashamed of.
Should we study mental health form Budhists, navigation from Polynesians and ecological consideration form the native Americans? - Probably.
Should we regard all societies as equal? - Don't think so.
More people migrate to the west than out of it - for a reason.
I'm a little annoyed by this also. Unless I'm misinterpreting him, he seems to be saying that all societies are basically equal, but different.
That's rubbish, IMHO. There are numerous completely dysfunctional societies now and in the past. Would he say that the North Korean model is an equally valid way to structure a society, or the Taliban, or the Nazis?. Pick any number of backward theocracies, police states and societies dominated by violent tribal warlords.
I think you are missing his point. It's not that all societies are equal, but rather that all (or most) societies have something worthwhile to contribute to our understandings of the means and ends of our existence.
Tibetan monks told us: we don't really believe that you went to the moon. But you did. You may not believe that we achieve enlightenment in one life time, but we do.
This is a stupid comparison. Just because they say they accept something from the western civilization, the affirmation about enlightenment is not more believable.
I agree that it is a very good idea to preserve their culture (and as many culture as possible), but stop attributing it so much value that we have to almost worship it.
amcnea is a personification of the people that Wade Davis is mentioning as those dismissing indigenous culture as a dead end of evolution bound to go exctinct. Amcnea thanks for showing to everyone here that Wade Davis is right for talking about your kind.
Why are you defending this so hard, are you the dude in the video or something? I think I understand, and here is what I think I understand.
You think there is something valuable to Buddhist culture? I don't. It's fine that they and a thousand other primitive cultures exists, but I don't care if they don't. They don't contribute much to the human condition. They don't make life easier, or better. They don't value science, and this will lead to their death. Tell me why I should value them?
@amcnea You also ask, 'why should I care about other traditions?'. Remember that once upon a time, not too long ago in our history, Western society was very poor and uneducated itself (the Middle Ages, anyone?). W/out significant contributions from other cultures, we never could have made the leap to modernity. Even more important, we have a history of imperialism, often violently subjugating others on the road to wealth and prosperity. Like it or not, we owe a huge debt to the developing world.
@fireintheequation Well, arn't you bringing up a very old thread. Anyways, we didn't get that knowledge from Buddhists, we got it from the Arabic world (the civilized world of the times). We don't owe much if anything to Buddhists.
When did this turn into a conversation about the developing world? We were talking about culture, and in this thread Buddhist culture particularly. Imperialism more destroyed cultures instead of benefiting from them.
While I think that there are good aspex of many cultures - their usefulness to their ppl - I disagree with cultural anthropologists who claim that no culture is better than the other -- but it is purpose, sustainability, minimized suffering balanced with maximized quality that will always be debated_apon / interpolated_for. We should extrapolate the most effective balances. I see no value in preservation of some elements however(those that harm sustainability and/or quality)
A brilliant man trying to stuff an elephant into a suitacse! i wish what he so eloquently speaks could be so but the world will go on until humanity's end, leaving pieces of itself to die in the dust until there is nothing but desolation. Nature doesn't care about humanity, she will continue and retool herself! Thanks for the share James!
Superstitious beliefs have led to suffering? Look if you don't think EVERY human experiences suffering you are arrogantly mistaken. No human acts perfectly moral at all times, knows perfectly of all things, or lives peacefully for all his days. Suffering and man are forever one.
dreapster: i think you are responding to my comment.
with human suffering, in this context, i mean: people being stoned to death because they had sex with someone they like. people burning to death or getting crushed in the towers of the world trade center. people with mental problems being abused by roman catholic exorcists. im talking about REAL suffering.
who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. and this video promotes belief in absurd nonsense.
Where does it promote anything? To me its just expresion of some vieuws one can have on these things. Like sharing thoughts. Nothing is imposed just brought forward, right?
I think Western Culture has made better progress (300 yr) then Buddhists has (2500 yr). That is in answering the questions "Who are we", and "Whats it mean to be human"?
Westerners, came up with the concepts of Rights, we abolished slavery, we reformed government.
Many Buddhists (such as the Dalai Lama) were tyrants subjugating a lower class and forcing them to tend fields, so the Lama's can just sit around and meditate. The Tibetan people have enjoyed more freedom and prosperity under China.
It's easy to bash Western Culture, and say we are nothing but consumer meaninglessness. However, how many of you REALLY want to go to a mountain and do nothing all day but meditate?
If everyone lived like Buddhists, a large portion of the World population would starve. We would not have even close to enough food to feed everyone. Anyone want to volunteer to starve?
Westerners may be lazy and consumers, but we make the food, we go to space, we choose to live and influence the Universe.
Your comments are a great example of the fact that you do not "get it" when you attempt to analyze the visionary, selfless brilliance of the Dalai Lama. He is what Einstein talked about when he said "we cannot solve our current problems with current ways of thinking" Be well my friend!
If everyone lived like buddhists, our resource intake would shrink a hundred fold. A buddhist doesnt simply have to sit still all day, he's free to do what he likes, including farm.
Giving them food doesn't solve the problem but neither does leaving them to their own devices. Clearly if they were capable of doing it themselves, then they would and thinking that going back to doing nothing is the best way to do things is dishonestly cruel. It's another way of saying "Help me by stop expecting me to do for others". It's inhuman.
No, don't feed them; teach them HOW to feed themselves. Teach them HOW to live so they can be self sufficient. Be kind not to ease your conscience.
@amcnea Buddhist monks meditate all day, much the same as monks of any other religion. Buddhist laymen work like the rest of us. Before casting any more hasty judgments, realize it is more a philosophy than religion per se, one which emphasizes compassion and objectivity above all. Not only is it compatible with science, it very much relies on empirical evidence to substantiate its beliefs. In fact, the Buddhist understanding of cause and effect is strikingly similar to that of quantum physics.
@fireintheequation "Before casting any more hasty judgments, realize it is more a philosophy than religion per se ... it very much relies on empirical evidence to substantiate its beliefs"
Did I speak of compatibility? I speak of observation. Where are the great Buddhist Universe and scientific academies? Where are the great Buddhist scientific experiments? If any exist they are very few and very far between. Now, where are the great Buddhist temples? It is easy to see what they value.
@amcnea The essence of the Buddhist way is to keep an open mind and engage peacefully with the world. I can see why you might have a problem with such a tradition.
@fireintheequation Did I ever state I have a problem with the Buddhist tradition? In order to have a discussion, you must make a point which can be reviewed, examined, and discussed. If you have a point to make instead of emotional statements intended to feed you own sense of smug superiority, please do so. Else, please stop trolling me.
@amcnea Excuse me but have you even read your own posts???
"You think there is something valuable to Buddhist culture? I don't. They don't contribute much to the human condition."
"If everyone lived like Buddhists, a large portion of the world would starve."
I chose to respond to the earlier thread because the apparent lack of knowledge was so outrageous I thought it deserved correcting. But perhaps you are right - this is an exercise in futility. Smug superiority? Trolling? Pot meet kettle.
@fireintheequation Umm, they don't contribute much. I could be wrong, if I am please name the contributions. That doesn't mean I have a problem with the Buddhist tradition. I am fine with them existing, but at the same time I have no desire to save their culture.
Also, America produces the majority of the worlds food through technological and industrial means. Current farming techniques used by Buddhists can not feed the world.
@amcnea We're talking about one of the world's great faiths w/ almost half a billion adherents including millions of Americans. To write it off as not worth saving seems a tad ridiculous, especially in today's increasingly interdependent global society. I also find it a bit naive to judge a tradition solely by its current economic and political status. As I touched upon earlier, the U.S. and Europe have come into ascendancy thanks in no small part to a brutal legacy of imperialism and slavery.
@fireintheequation "To write it off as not worth saving seems a tad ridiculous"
I wouldn't be in favor of saving Christianity, Hinduism, Judaism, Islam, etc. Also, it has nothing to do with worth. What is and is not worth saving? How do you decide? Why is A worth saving and B not? Also, did they ask to be saved? Self imposed savior complexes annoy me.
"thanks in no small part to a brutal legacy of imperialism and slavery"
@amcnea This isn't just a discussion about Buddhism as far as I'm concerned. It's ultimately about the relation of all native cultures to the powers that be. Unless you're ready to tell me the Indians had it coming, that it was manifest destiny of the superior European race which led to their annihilation, I think some humility is in order. Your attitude reeks of potential bigotry.
As quick as you take credit for all our glorious achievements, can you own up to the destruction we've wrought?
@fireintheequation Sure, we've killed people in horrible unfathomable ways and on massive scales. We have had wars and death camps. I have no illusions about our dark side nor any of the other cultures. You seem to focus on the dark side of western culture and ignore that side of other cultures. Indians killed, murdered, and did unspeakable things. So did the Buddhists, they weren't called warrior monks for nothing. Pretty much anyone who had power did horrible feats only limited by there means.
True, we are the dominate culture, but I think it is important to take in the whole picture else you risk loosing perspective. America in particular has been the most benevolent empire in the history of mankind. However, that kinda like saying "he is the nicest murder I have ever met." So, take it for what it's worth.
@amcnea re: contributions-Buddhism offers a profound philosophy of peace and compassion for all sentient beings which is urgently needed to help mend the fractured politics and bitter religious divides which threaten our security even in the industrialized West (to say nothing of its magnificent legacy to the world of art and architecture). The Buddha's teachings have inspired countless numbers to lead happier, more fulfilling lives and to embrace a more sustainable, harmonious mode of living.
Like I said, they didn't contribute much. If you were to say something like the Western culture didn't contribute much, I could reply with something like: automobile, transistor, personal computer, internet, steam engine, otto cycle, powered flight, calculus, atomic theory, man on the moon, space station, satellites, GPS. Just to name a few but I seem to be running low on characters.
@amcnea You really do worship at the feet of modern technology, don't you? In your laundry list of our accomplishments I should point out you've left out a not so insignificant category: weapons of ever-increasing mass destruction. What good are our creature comforts if we blow ourselves to smithereens, or to the millions whose lives have already been ruined? I have to say I find your us vs. them mentality rather childish, ignorant of larger moral realities which bind every culture to the next.
I use money. I don't worship it. Much the same w/ technology. Means to an end.
Btw, Wade Davis is a Westerner-I doubt he's interested in bashing himself. If you look closely, you'll notice the title of the talk is "Worldwide Web..." not "Why Indigenous Cultures are Superior".
And does anyone besides the Chinese government or conspiracy junkies really give a damn about smear campaigns on the Dalai Lama? Once you've written the Wikipedia article, with multiple valid sources, tune me in.
@amcnea The argument presented here is for recognizing reasonable limits to science and technology and for exposing the myth of endless growth and progress that a high tech society can perpetuate. The recent near total collapse of global financial markets is an abundantly clear indication that the excesses of our consumer culture cannot continue indefinitely.
"The argument presented here is for recognizing reasonable limits to science and technology and for exposing the myth of endless growth and progress that a high tech society can perpetuate"
Umm, who is presenting this argument. The speaker makes no mention of such a thing. Are you presenting this as a new argument?
"The recent near total collapse of global financial markets ..."
That's a whole different thing, which I don't think we should bring into this conversation.
@amcnea Absolutely Wade Davis argues that the value of science is limited past a certain level of economic prosperity. Past that point investment in technology can offer only diminishing returns to our standard of living. That is what is meant by a "major response to minor needs". Put another way, we in the developed world have by and large met our basic survival needs. What is missing perhaps is a sense of the big picture, of our place in the cosmos. We must recover a sense of the sacred.
He doesn't do a very good job of arguing that in this video.
"What is missing perhaps is a sense of the big picture, of our place in the cosmos. We must recover a sense of the sacred."
Umm, that's called science, that's called cosmology. A "sense of the sacred" is rubbish. It is nothing more then fairy tales and amounts to nothing. Many of the horrible things that you point out about the west comes from this "sense of the sacred".
@amcnea You and Richard Dawkins would get along famously.
Whether you believe in God or not, the essence of religion is really very simple and actually quite hard to argue with. It's called the Golden Rule. The fact that people violate it doesn't prove religion is bad, it proves people are bad at being religious.
Have you ever watched a movie you knew was fiction that inspired you nonetheless? Stories and myths and even fairy tales can instruct. Don't throw the baby out with the bathwater.
@fireintheequation "the essence of religion is ... called the Golden Rule."
Um, no. Have you ever read the bible? Just staying things are the way you would like them to be doesn't make it so, and it's not really historically accurate.
"Have you ever watched a movie you knew was fiction that inspired you nonetheless?"
Being inspired by fiction is one thing, not being able to tell the difference between fiction and fact is another. It's called delusional or insane.
@amcnea Like I said you have no heroes besides yourself. Mandela, Gandhi, MLK, "just politicians". What's more, human kindness is just a ruse invented by evil geniuses like Jesus and the Buddha to delude the masses. Spot on, kid.
@fireintheequation I am sure they would have approved of your incessant whining and snide remarks. What you don't understand is that these people have myths about them. If they actually were your heroes I would think you would actually take the time to study them. Like I said before its delusional not to be able to distinguish fact from fiction. If you want to live in your fantasy world, that's fine. Just don't insist that it is real to the rest of us.
@amcnea Frankly I think I was being generous even in putting up with you. You're so completely wrapped up in this scientistic dogma of yours you don't even recognize anymore how arrogant you've become. Here are the facts-the Dalai Lama was only 15 when he was forced to flee Tibet. Your entire case against him rests on events before he had even flown the coop. If you really were interested in breaking through illusion like you say you'd start by taking a long hard look at the person called you.
Umm, your the one who contacted me. I have been putting up with you.
"wrapped up in this scientistic dogma"
What dogma? Feeding and clothing people? Curing disease such a smallpox?
"Your entire case against him rests on events before he had even flown the coop"
Well, the military training camp in Colorado financed by the CIA was after that. You can't state he is a good person simply because he didn't hold power.
@amcnea The dogma that says all spirituality is nonsense, that it serves no purpose. Just b/c it doesn't work for you doesn't mean it can't for others.
And btw no one's exactly forcing you to respond to me. You're engaged in this as much as I am. I saw several comments of yours that struck me as absurd and felt compelled to set the record straight.
Speaking of which, since when is defending your country against invaders an evil act? What exactly are you accusing the current Dalai Lama of?
@amcnea There's really no arguing with you about the issue of Tibet b/c you're hell bent on demonizing any religious leader no matter the facts. But again, here they are:
A) China's record of human rights violations is atrocious, particularly towards ethnic minorities.
B) The Dalai Lama is almost universally recognized by the Tibetan people as their leader in exile.
C) That government in exile supports democratic reforms in Tibet where possible.
All of this can be verified on Wiki and elsewhere.
@amcnea Btw, accd to your radical worldview, the DL is no different from any public person who's ever existed. They're all self-interested individuals making political moves, correct? If that's true, I fail to see how he's qualitatively any worse than most heads of state. There's no country on earth which has a crystal clean record on human rights. And no person or leader without flaws. If all you're saying is that he's like everyone else, well then fine. Who am I to deny you your pessimism?
@fireintheequation "I fail to see how he's qualitatively any worse than most heads of state."
I never said he was, I have stated several times he is "Just like many many other dictators." I am just saying he is now some superior specimen of human being like you seem to think.
@amcnea The DL is widely considered to be one of the most influential spiritual leaders in the world. Never said he was a "superior specimen", whatever that is, just a person with a good heart who happens to have accomplished some extraordinary things.
"Never said he was a superior specimen, whatever that is,"
What you said was: "I'm afraid nothing you say will convince me the Dalai Lama is anything but a model of righteous living". Which is what I was referring to. "just a person with a good heart who happens to have accomplished some extraordinary things."
You stated much more then that, and even this is a bit of a stretch.
@amcnea Some of your msgs are being flagged as spam so I'm delayed in reading them-it might be b/c you're posting multiple msgs at once.
Re: "righteous living" critique - if I've over-stated the DL's greatness, it's only in response to repeated comments from you which suggest he is evil. Neither fair nor accurate to put him in the same camp as tyrannical dictators like Kim Jong-Il. The DL was well ahead of his time in calling for a ban on nuclear weapons and never a threat to global security.
@fireintheequation "You've claimed many times that he doesn't have real power. So who exactly has he been dictating to and tyrannizing over?"
I used the past tense was in that sentence. He was a dictator in exile, but apparently he just stepped down. Now, he is a religious figure consolidating his power. My guess is that he is hoping by renouncing the thrown, he thinks China might eventually let him back in and he go sponge of the Tibetan people once again.
@amcnea For all your reputed inside knowledge of Buddhist society, I wonder have you spent any real time with Buddhist people, I mean flesh and blood Buddhists?
@fireintheequation "For all your reputed inside knowledge of Buddhist society"
What knowledge is that. I would call the historical record inside knowledge. All I really said is that I don't really think their culture is worth saving, and I don't really think they have much to offer. And, considering that they never asked to be saved I don't think we should force it on them. They probably fine people just living their lives. But to answer you question, no.
Actually the Tibetan gov't in exile continues to ask that the plight of Tibetans in China be more widely exposed and solutions sought out. It's ultimately about the protection of basic human rights, not "who is worth saving".
Their not the Buddhist culture. They are just one very small group of people. Basic human rights isn't what this video was about. It was about non-western cultures. I am speaking in that context.
@amcnea And this just in (from your favorite Wiki article on the 14th DL): "In a speech on 3-11-2011, the 14th Dalai Lama stated he will propose changes to the constitution of the Tibetan government in exile which will remove the Dalai Lama's role as head of state, replacing him with an elected leader. He formally submitted his resignation as political leader on 3-14-2011." Doesn't sound much like the work of a dictator intent on consolidating power. More like that of a simple Buddhist monk.
He has no power and it's a good PR move. He looses nothing and gains sympathy, money, and support. You seem to be easily fooled by politics. He steps down from the head of a government which doesn't really exist. Oh no, great loss there.
"Doesn't sound much like the work of a dictator intent on consolidating power."
Absolutely it does. That is exactly what he has gained by this, power.
@amcnea It's practically unheard of for a major world leader in good health to voluntarily step down without scandal or coercion from without. Can you imagine a Khomeini or a Kim Jong-il or even say the Pope making the same move? Never. You're so darn cynical you can't even see straight anymore. But I suppose it's to be expected since you don't seem to believe in compassion as a legitimate human motivation. (It's just a lie invented by priests???) Through a glass darkly. I'd hate to be you.
@fireintheequation "It's practically unheard of for a major world leader in good health to voluntarily step down without scandal or coercion from without."
He is not a major world leader. He is in exile. Simply trying to retain as much power as possible.
"But I suppose it's to be expected since you don't seem to believe in compassion"
When did I ever say that. I am just not duped as easily as you are.
@fireintheequation "The dogma that says all spirituality is nonsense, that it serves no purpose."
Umm, it is nonsense and it serves no positive purpose. But, what does that have to do with science? Spirituality being nothing more then lies usually used to separate a fool from his money or give some undue and undeserved power to some sort of priest is completely separate from and has nothing to do with science.
@amcnea Like it or not, the founders of the great religions were all interested in promoting good will and kindness among people. If their messages have been corrupted over time by political institutions, that doesn't negate what they were teaching. Was Jesus a fool to sacrifice his life for a cause? Was the Buddha a fool to renounce his wealth to seek enlightenment? Are you really going to tell me the world would be a better place if all everyone cared about was padding their own pockets?
@amcnea "You live in a world w 2 options...lies or padding pockets."
Well, let's think about this. What is spirituality but the belief that there is something besides our selfish genes which can ultimately motivate us? If you deny any such motivation is possible, well then we're all just terminally selfish creatures. Every act of kindness would merely be a veiled form of selfishness. So yes, the two options are spirituality or radical selfishness. If you discover another, I'd like to know it.
@amcnea If science is all you believe in, then kindness are compassion are just evolutionary strategies for our genes to get ahead. We become nothing more than prisoners of our biology, soulless mechanized creatures. You're great at deflecting my criticism, but you've failed to offer any other convincing explanation.
@fireintheequation "If science is all you believe in, then kindness are compassion are just evolutionary strategies for our genes to get ahead."
If this is true, then it doesn't matter what you believe, it will still be true. Believing in something doesn't change your DNA. The only difference you are talking about is this being true and believing in fiction versus this being true and NOT believing in fiction.
@amcnea It's true that belief doesn't change our DNA but it does affect the quality of our actions, which is the very pt of believing in the 1st place. If all you believe is that we're programmed to act in our self-interest, it becomes virtually impossible to ever love someone you don't know. And if you can't care about a stranger, aren't we just stuck in a kind of social Darwinism where every man is pitted against one another? To me that's what really sad, that destruction should be inevitable.
Oh my god white people. What have you done to the world in 500 years. You have stunted the development of every other culture, who would have progressed without short-sightedness in those 500 years. Remember that each civilization was on par except for Europe (which was below par) before 500 years.
crudhousefull 2 months ago in playlist More videos from TEDtalksDirector
"Two hours from Miami there is an entire civilization of people praying everyday for your well being. They call themselves the elder brothers, they dismiss the rest of us who have ruined the world as the younger brothers, they cannot understand why it is that we do what we do to the Earth"
Farfromhere001 6 months ago
In response to -- "If your distinguishing between 'an experience' (what a persons feels and senses) vs. 'experience' (events which happen to something), then rocks have 'experience'."
Participation isn't just what happens to us, it's also what happens because of us. It's not just what we feel and sense, it's also what we choose.
fireintheequation 7 months ago
how about getting your criminal propaganda off the web before we do something about you
Zareste 9 months ago
We really should do something about people who post criminal propaganda on the web
Zareste 9 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
The man talks fast and throws a lot lof arge words out there and we call it being brilliant. I believe a 4 year old could be trained to do this same thing. Put this video in slow motion and really listen to what he is saying and see if it still sounds smart, or if it even makes sense at all.
jon090988 1 year ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
The man talks fast and throws a lot lof arge words out there and we call it being brilliant. I believe a 4 year old could be trained to do this same thing. Put this video in slow motion and really listen to what he is saying and see if it still sounds smart, or if it even makes since at all.
jon090988 1 year ago
@jon090988 umm..u didnt say anything! statements are not facts ...what is your point? 4yr. old what 4yr. old you know travels the world to objectively observe a culture ?
WORLDARYANREVIVAL 1 year ago
@jon090988 ahaha, yes, it makes perfect sense. You can read his books at any pace you like, by the way.
4zxeue 1 year ago
The man talks fast and throws a lot lof arge words out there and we call it being brilliant. I believe a 4 year old could be trained to do this same thing. Put this video in slow motion and really listen to what he is saying and see if it still sounds smart, or if it even makes since at all.
jon090988 1 year ago
@jon090988 He believes that the world started with Adam and Eve and is under 100,000 years old. He has many interesting things to say but he is also a crazy person lol
jlorimar 1 month ago
Brilliant
graciegail 1 year ago
all of these lectures are collected in a book called 'wayfinders'. i highly recommend it.
balazsaboo 1 year ago 2
i was a little startled by the speed at first (damn that time limit). i've seen his 'Light at the Edge of the World' series on NatGeo, and read his essay of the same title a year or so ago(the first time i fell in love with an anthropologist); i miss the lyricism, but the key thoughts are definitely here. the six thousand voices as "cultural options" -- if there is one Truth that any/all religion/s should preach, it is that.
(ooh i just wish his books were available here in the philippines.)
wordsandtricks 1 year ago
Love his books, where he has more time to show his thought.
schmazly2 2 years ago
Wade Davis is at COP15 this week. He shares his insights at journey-to-zero (dot) posterous (dot) com
journeytozero 2 years ago
i hold the same lecture in my unversity
ufcmic 2 years ago
One of the best talks I have so far heard in TED!
yogilix 2 years ago 3
"Ishmael" by Daniel Quinn. Read it.
themajikat 2 years ago 3
arminian100 what are you talking about? he is a phenominal public speaker!!!!
thaiking562 2 years ago
He presents all his ideas in a very well organized way, but you can tell he's rushing a bit and he's slightly out of breathe and can't quite fully catch it....
818Camaro818 2 years ago 3
this was an amazing presentation.
I just wish that he was a better public speaker.
Arminian100 2 years ago 4
i cried.
as always the best speaker here on TED.
I HOLD THE VISION WE CLEAN THE AIR, WATER, SOIL & CO-CREATE PEACE ON EARTH BY 2012. join me ;-]
babyjevus 2 years ago 3
Sphinx water erosion
solargazing69 2 years ago 2
class
chopwallace55 2 years ago
thank you.
bezale 2 years ago
This guy never ceases to amaze me and constantly stokes my passion and interest for anthropology and understanding what it means to be human.
NwZ2 3 years ago 4
its interesting how he compares western science to buddhism and basically religion. u can find a lot of youtubers especially who have so attached their emotions to that specific specialty of thought(science) that they utterly hate any other form of thought and are absurdly offended when another form of thought even comes up or is given any form of respect. i bet the only reason this doesn't have 5 stars is because he was respectful of other kinds of thought.
justforwatchingcraps 3 years ago 8
I could listen to him talk forever and never lose interest!
Trippinpatchouli 3 years ago 4
Ok first of all, the following statement is bound to upset and enrage certain people, if you are one of them, than either read and think about it or just ignore it and move on. I do not yearn for pity nor salvation.
I think he is so close to make a really important statement, but yet completely misses the point.
YES we ARE technological wizards!
But WE were ones like THEM, though learned to master the usage of the serial processing part of our brains.
Lihinel 3 years ago
They might have mastered the parallel processing better than we, developed some great ideas and are astonishingly well adapted to their habitat, but they lack the ability to free themselves from their mental heritage and identify false positives, to come up with a solid comprehensive theory of the true nature of the world around them, that includes all other cultures.
WE however have the tools to do this.
Lihinel 3 years ago
We need to use are parallel processing to envision the kind of world we want to create and the serial processing to manifest our visions within the real world.
And overall we need to rid ourselves of the baseless assumption that life is suffering, that we gained through imposing wrong assumption of its true nature, and needs to be overcome by a complete rejection of reality.
Lihinel 3 years ago
Ok, so since making these comments I send a link to somebody who is a bit more focused on the emotional site of issue and in the flow of it decided to address the issue again with another transcription, which is less focused on addressing it systematically. I will just go on quote this, which will maybe helpful to some:
Lihinel 3 years ago
What I wanted to say, when I talked of preserving or conserving cultures, was their history and ideas. I did not want to praise or defend them for using superstition and false positives to enforce power and reign over their fellow man.
I just think their passion and abilities can be put to a far better use for all of humanity.
For there are two true statements that do NOT inherently contradicting each other!
Lihinel 3 years ago
Yes, we must not let the world get in the way and distract us from ourselves,
yet we must also not let ourselves get in the way and distract us from the world.
One part of us should strive towards the deep connections, Nirvana for the lack of a better term, while the other should focus on finding out the true nature of our world, reading the mind of God, as our physicists like to say. And they must always try to influence each other, to not lose the view of the greater picture.
Lihinel 3 years ago
The most obvious and striking example I could come up with is about Buddhist:
Just imagine what could be achieved, if we would manage, to get some Mathematicians in, on the education of the boy, that will be chosen as the next Dali Lama and get him in touch with fractal geometry.
Lihinel 3 years ago
Instead of investing hundreds and thousands of hours of their time into constructing Mandala with powders on the grounds of their temples, just to destroy them after the work is done, they could create even more spiritual things, of such a metaphysical quality, that they are infinite, never really exist in physical form, but are eternal in their nature and beauty.
Lihinel 3 years ago
We could have a gigantic mass of highly ambitious people solving problems of fractal geometry that may be useable in every other field of science.
Lihinel 3 years ago
When he quoted the Dali Lama, he said that he cant prove us that he has reached Nirvana, just like we cant prove him that we went to the moon. Now, if we manage to combine our forces we could gain the knowledge to get every single one of us to the moon and into outer space, as well as completely new means to share knowledge, ideas, hopes and dreams directly with one another to reach a connection with everything else.
Lihinel 3 years ago
After a third address, I must argree to one statement:
Yes, I do belief in my worldview, in the sentence, that I have yet to see a fundamental flaw in the rejection of the supernatural and the acceptance of the scientific method.
If you want to deconstruct my statement on this egoistic, self centered view and my passion for a growth in knowledge and understanding, please proof the supernatural to all.
I wish for harmony, but not at the price of falling back into darkness, missery and pain.
Lihinel 3 years ago
are you effing serious? First you talk about a symbiosis of science and the spirit, and then then you throw that away with your last point by finishing with tried old cliches about "darkness, misery and pain." Get it through your head: the big dominator religions of the "civilized" world never have and never will represent the entirety of human spirituality.
Seriously, it sounds like the point of Wade Davis's entire lecture just went over your head.
4zxeue 2 years ago 3
This guy is way to forgiving of primitive superstion. You shouldn't call something a science if it doesn't use the scientific method.
garvess 3 years ago
I have read many of his books and am grateful for his perspectives, he has made a real contribution to this world. I would encourage some of you to, instead of taking cheap shots at wade, actually come up with some original ideas of your own and show us that you have something worthwhile to contribute as well.
katoombaya 3 years ago
no, we do not have all of the answers, nor will we ever, no matter what the 'area'.
no, wade is not an anti-intellectual.
he certainly is not ignorant, nor a liar. he simply is making the viewer aware that there are more than a few ways to perceive what we call reality. And that each one has value; none is a failure.
katoombaya 3 years ago
....more than anyone in the 4000 year history of the planet?
wtf. I was patient with this guy but I have to agree with the people saying that he has an anti-intellectual message even though he has some very interesting stories.
Sondre7 3 years ago
"4000 year history of the plant" p-l-a-n-t, plant.
he was talking about coca, of course, the notorious source of cocaine, and was likely referring to 4000 years of its use by human beings. He is one of the leading western scientists in ethnobotany, which looks at different traditional society's uses of various plants.
katoombaya 3 years ago
IT WAS A JOKE, FUCKNUT
manka6 3 years ago
when i split the comment into two comments, it works.
youtube should fix the comment-system. bugs like that are really annoying.
kurtilein3 3 years ago
if you promote superstition in an area WHERE WE ALREADY HAVE ALL THE ANSWERS, backed up with EVIDENCE, then you are ainti-intellectual. you are arguing against reality, and spreading ``knowledge´´ that just isnt true. if Wade Davis wouldnt be ignorant, he would be a liar.
kurtilein3 3 years ago
mkabbz: if you praise and glorify astrology, you are also attacking cosmology. if you preach creationism, you attack evolutionary theory. if you recommend homeopathy, you are taking away the benefits of modern medicine.
kurtilein3 3 years ago
i hope that youtube will fix this stupid comment-system.
so instead of posting the comment that i would like to post, i would ask you to: go to liveleak. forget youtube. youtube sucks. the comment-system sucks.
kurtilein3 3 years ago
the comment-system does not work properly, i am unable to post the comment that i want to post.
kurtilein3 3 years ago
Meditation is awesome, in just a few short sessions I've gained abilities I didn't think were posible, learned things I didn't knew I didn't knew. But to spend decades just meditating is as pointless as spending them locked up in a lab.
Life should be filled with experiences of all sorts.
akylae101 3 years ago
TED is changing the world...
than you so much.
AmbientDisorder 3 years ago
Big up for yet another great TED talk.
Do I need to say more...?
ColorfulSundays 3 years ago
preservation of language and culture is certainly laudable but truth is more important. it is entirely possible to preserve intimate knowledge of the natural world and diverse and wonderful cultural expression without persisting in superstition and ritual based in stone age ignorance.
alcibiades592 3 years ago
It is wonderful how passionate and enthusiastic, these TED presenters are!
humanist7117 3 years ago
I thought this was a fantastic talk. He sounded a bit out of breath or nervous all the time, but I can get past that. It takes a brave man to do a talk highlighting the spiritual values of "primitive" cultures in front of hard-scientists; and pose the question: In the way we are doing things, compared to all these other guys, have we not made some mistakes ?
tribble666 3 years ago
well said.
margahh00 3 years ago
Right, there is more to life than that.
How about helping others? Learning for fun?
Having dreams?
MrFrankBullitt 3 years ago
@6:30
Not leaving a room for 55 years doesn't seem like success. A life of pure contemplation is not enough.
MrFrankBullitt 3 years ago
Perfect.
DriftingMunki 3 years ago
clearly mr anthropologist should smoke less pot
clray123 3 years ago
hm... i think that mr.square here needs to smoke more pot...
mkabbz 3 years ago
You are making a fatal error in assuming I haven't considered other cultures from the POV of their residences.
I wouldn't put cultures here mentioned in the inferior category.
What I would place there: slave owning American south, zero-liberty North Korea, intolerant theocracies & women-hostile patriarchies of any age or culture.
Places from which people have RAN AWAY *despite* being indoctrinated into the culture.
akylae101 3 years ago
Tibetans beat us in mental health & empathy, native Americans beat us in ecology. We should learn these traits from them. This is a comparison of the quality of 2 cultures, where the west is (shock) INFERIOR.
Cultures are not all equal or equally worthy of respect, and money is not the yard stick, Longjevity, health, equality & sustainability maybe.
That is unless you think the societies mentioned in the above comment as bad are/were in fact peachy - In which case you know what you are.
akylae101 3 years ago 4
Read "Serpent & The Rainbow" by Wade Davis
MrFrankBullitt 3 years ago
I admit first hearing these from unreliable sources. BUT!
The first one was *confirmed*, rather reluctantly, by a MUSLIM IMAM, on a BBC show, debating religious education.
(you can find it on YouTube if your don't believe me: search 'religious education debate BBC' it's a 6 part show, should be at part 4 or 5 )
I doubt he'd lie to discredit his own faith - on public TV no less.
akylae101 3 years ago
By Sharia law:
A sane adult man should be executed for leaving Islam. If one cannot make his own mind on the nature of the universe, what can (s)he do at all?
By Sharia law a woman's word is 1/2 the value of a man's & a non-Muslim's word is 1/2 the Muslims. Any set of laws that favors one group over another is by definition unjust.
That you would like such a system go global proves the point that some people & societies *are* better than others.
Peace.
akylae101 3 years ago
BTW the same was true, in practice if not in writing, in your beloved Christian Dark Ages.
The west I defend is not Christian at all. It is a recent, hard-won, secular accomplishment of renaissance, revolutions, enlightenment, anti-faschism & ultimately humanism.
I never said it's perfect or even best, just that *most* other things look worse in comparison.
Peace
akylae101 3 years ago
That's not actually not the Sharia law you know...
ehsanul 3 years ago
Heaven help the person on youtube who has anything positive to say about religion, for the wrath of the many cyber-geniuses shall fall upon them.
bushfingers 3 years ago
To say one culture is better than another culture implies that people from one culture are better than those of another culture i.e. some people are better than others simply because of where they happened to be born. But to hold this opinion is comparable to holding the worst exclusionary and fundamentalist religious beliefs, and is certainly antithetical to modern Western sensibilities.
Therefore, one culture is not better than another culture.
bushfingers 3 years ago
People of one culture *are* better than people of another, *not* for the accident of birth but the *values* they were brought up with.
If you think no society is better than worse than any other just compare present day & middle age Europe. There is a reason for the terms 'dark age' and 'enlightenment'. The west has the *least dysfunctional* system, becouse we have tried every alternative and learned from painful mistakes. or its present day counterparts like Saudi Arabia.
akylae101 3 years ago 3
Yes, that is why I support the global establishment of sharia law - I mean it is not called the 'Decadent West' for nothing.
Recently, there has been an entire reassessment of the so-called Dark Ages. Don't judge too quickly.
Ironically, it is people who claim to support western civilization with the most alacrity who seem most antithetical to its foundation - Christianity.
What will future civilisations say of us? Probably nothing, because there will be nobody around to say anything.
bushfingers 3 years ago
Woah. You need to realize one fatal flaw you are making. That judgment comes from your own cultural indoctrination. You are trained to believe that your culture is superior. You have no other possible way of thinking. It is IMPOSSIBLE...unless, of course, you decide to join a new culture and completely have a brain swipe to not remember your old one.
Then you will have a new belief on which is better. And you won't be able to compare the two, bc you won't remember the old.
NSquarticsurface 3 years ago
As a college educated unbelieving woman born with a heart defect, who would be either dead, mutilated, illiterate or regarded inferior in most societies in history, I rightfully say the west has nothing to be ashamed of.
Should we study mental health form Budhists, navigation from Polynesians and ecological consideration form the native Americans? - Probably.
Should we regard all societies as equal? - Don't think so.
More people migrate to the west than out of it - for a reason.
Peace.
akylae101 3 years ago 5
You wouldn't be born with a heart defect in a different culture. And you wouldn't mind your illiteracy either, nor would you value it at all.
Romka1989 3 years ago
Things I 'would not mind nor value' in other societies:
Being unable to satisfy my immense curiosity about myself, humanity & nature. (mythology doesn't cut it, I found plot holes in genesis in first grade)
Being ostracized or worse for unbelief.
Having my life dictated by male relatives. Having to do 'women's jobs' with an innate affinity for science & tech.
Having my privates mutilated.
akylae101 3 years ago
You don't have to repeat yourself. But I do. However I must apologize for not doing so because I'm playing a really fun game right now.
Romka1989 3 years ago
i think you missed the point...
mkabbz 3 years ago
Who are you addressing?
akylae101 3 years ago
Science vs faith debates aside, does anyone else feel anxious when listening to him because of the way he talks?
WTFimreallynotgay 3 years ago
Yeah, very annoying tone. He is losing the value of presentation this way.
alexdobrinbv 3 years ago
He talks like he's on drugs. I can easily imagine him doing telemarketing or preaching bs to children.
clray123 3 years ago
I'm a little annoyed by this also. Unless I'm misinterpreting him, he seems to be saying that all societies are basically equal, but different.
That's rubbish, IMHO. There are numerous completely dysfunctional societies now and in the past. Would he say that the North Korean model is an equally valid way to structure a society, or the Taliban, or the Nazis?. Pick any number of backward theocracies, police states and societies dominated by violent tribal warlords.
TravisMorien 3 years ago 2
I think you are missing his point. It's not that all societies are equal, but rather that all (or most) societies have something worthwhile to contribute to our understandings of the means and ends of our existence.
WTFimreallynotgay 3 years ago 3
Tibetan monks told us: we don't really believe that you went to the moon. But you did. You may not believe that we achieve enlightenment in one life time, but we do.
This is a stupid comparison. Just because they say they accept something from the western civilization, the affirmation about enlightenment is not more believable.
I agree that it is a very good idea to preserve their culture (and as many culture as possible), but stop attributing it so much value that we have to almost worship it.
alexdobrinbv 3 years ago
amcnea is a personification of the people that Wade Davis is mentioning as those dismissing indigenous culture as a dead end of evolution bound to go exctinct. Amcnea thanks for showing to everyone here that Wade Davis is right for talking about your kind.
miighankurt 3 years ago
The Fark? Did I hear that correctly?
jedaqia 3 years ago
a communist rebel bunch
miighankurt 3 years ago
a communist rebel bunch = The FARC was established in the 1960s as the military wing of the Colombian Communist Party.
miighankurt 3 years ago
Interesting.
ojewel 3 years ago
Why are you defending this so hard, are you the dude in the video or something? I think I understand, and here is what I think I understand.
You think there is something valuable to Buddhist culture? I don't. It's fine that they and a thousand other primitive cultures exists, but I don't care if they don't. They don't contribute much to the human condition. They don't make life easier, or better. They don't value science, and this will lead to their death. Tell me why I should value them?
amcnea 3 years ago
sustainability
windham666 3 years ago 2
@amcnea You also ask, 'why should I care about other traditions?'. Remember that once upon a time, not too long ago in our history, Western society was very poor and uneducated itself (the Middle Ages, anyone?). W/out significant contributions from other cultures, we never could have made the leap to modernity. Even more important, we have a history of imperialism, often violently subjugating others on the road to wealth and prosperity. Like it or not, we owe a huge debt to the developing world.
fireintheequation 8 months ago
@fireintheequation Well, arn't you bringing up a very old thread. Anyways, we didn't get that knowledge from Buddhists, we got it from the Arabic world (the civilized world of the times). We don't owe much if anything to Buddhists.
When did this turn into a conversation about the developing world? We were talking about culture, and in this thread Buddhist culture particularly. Imperialism more destroyed cultures instead of benefiting from them.
amcnea 8 months ago
While I think that there are good aspex of many cultures - their usefulness to their ppl - I disagree with cultural anthropologists who claim that no culture is better than the other -- but it is purpose, sustainability, minimized suffering balanced with maximized quality that will always be debated_apon / interpolated_for. We should extrapolate the most effective balances. I see no value in preservation of some elements however(those that harm sustainability and/or quality)
SuperiorMind 3 years ago
A very good video.
Masenko 3 years ago
A brilliant man trying to stuff an elephant into a suitacse! i wish what he so eloquently speaks could be so but the world will go on until humanity's end, leaving pieces of itself to die in the dust until there is nothing but desolation. Nature doesn't care about humanity, she will continue and retool herself! Thanks for the share James!
larosity 3 years ago
Superstitious beliefs have led to suffering? Look if you don't think EVERY human experiences suffering you are arrogantly mistaken. No human acts perfectly moral at all times, knows perfectly of all things, or lives peacefully for all his days. Suffering and man are forever one.
dreapster 3 years ago
dreapster: i think you are responding to my comment.
with human suffering, in this context, i mean: people being stoned to death because they had sex with someone they like. people burning to death or getting crushed in the towers of the world trade center. people with mental problems being abused by roman catholic exorcists. im talking about REAL suffering.
who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. and this video promotes belief in absurd nonsense.
kurtilein3 3 years ago 3
Where does it promote anything? To me its just expresion of some vieuws one can have on these things. Like sharing thoughts. Nothing is imposed just brought forward, right?
TheFerrymanSong 3 years ago
I think Western Culture has made better progress (300 yr) then Buddhists has (2500 yr). That is in answering the questions "Who are we", and "Whats it mean to be human"?
Westerners, came up with the concepts of Rights, we abolished slavery, we reformed government.
Many Buddhists (such as the Dalai Lama) were tyrants subjugating a lower class and forcing them to tend fields, so the Lama's can just sit around and meditate. The Tibetan people have enjoyed more freedom and prosperity under China.
amcnea 3 years ago
It's easy to bash Western Culture, and say we are nothing but consumer meaninglessness. However, how many of you REALLY want to go to a mountain and do nothing all day but meditate?
If everyone lived like Buddhists, a large portion of the World population would starve. We would not have even close to enough food to feed everyone. Anyone want to volunteer to starve?
Westerners may be lazy and consumers, but we make the food, we go to space, we choose to live and influence the Universe.
amcnea 3 years ago
oh shut up.
gratex 3 years ago
Your comments are a great example of the fact that you do not "get it" when you attempt to analyze the visionary, selfless brilliance of the Dalai Lama. He is what Einstein talked about when he said "we cannot solve our current problems with current ways of thinking" Be well my friend!
vantobicoke 3 years ago
If everyone lived like buddhists, our resource intake would shrink a hundred fold. A buddhist doesnt simply have to sit still all day, he's free to do what he likes, including farm.
mkabbz 3 years ago
Comment removed
ExDeeXD 3 years ago
Giving them food doesn't solve the problem but neither does leaving them to their own devices. Clearly if they were capable of doing it themselves, then they would and thinking that going back to doing nothing is the best way to do things is dishonestly cruel. It's another way of saying "Help me by stop expecting me to do for others". It's inhuman.
No, don't feed them; teach them HOW to feed themselves. Teach them HOW to live so they can be self sufficient. Be kind not to ease your conscience.
NwZ2 3 years ago 3
@amcnea Buddhist monks meditate all day, much the same as monks of any other religion. Buddhist laymen work like the rest of us. Before casting any more hasty judgments, realize it is more a philosophy than religion per se, one which emphasizes compassion and objectivity above all. Not only is it compatible with science, it very much relies on empirical evidence to substantiate its beliefs. In fact, the Buddhist understanding of cause and effect is strikingly similar to that of quantum physics.
fireintheequation 8 months ago
@fireintheequation "Before casting any more hasty judgments, realize it is more a philosophy than religion per se ... it very much relies on empirical evidence to substantiate its beliefs"
Did I speak of compatibility? I speak of observation. Where are the great Buddhist Universe and scientific academies? Where are the great Buddhist scientific experiments? If any exist they are very few and very far between. Now, where are the great Buddhist temples? It is easy to see what they value.
amcnea 8 months ago
@amcnea The essence of the Buddhist way is to keep an open mind and engage peacefully with the world. I can see why you might have a problem with such a tradition.
fireintheequation 8 months ago
@fireintheequation Did I ever state I have a problem with the Buddhist tradition? In order to have a discussion, you must make a point which can be reviewed, examined, and discussed. If you have a point to make instead of emotional statements intended to feed you own sense of smug superiority, please do so. Else, please stop trolling me.
amcnea 8 months ago
@amcnea Excuse me but have you even read your own posts???
"You think there is something valuable to Buddhist culture? I don't. They don't contribute much to the human condition."
"If everyone lived like Buddhists, a large portion of the world would starve."
I chose to respond to the earlier thread because the apparent lack of knowledge was so outrageous I thought it deserved correcting. But perhaps you are right - this is an exercise in futility. Smug superiority? Trolling? Pot meet kettle.
fireintheequation 8 months ago
@fireintheequation Umm, they don't contribute much. I could be wrong, if I am please name the contributions. That doesn't mean I have a problem with the Buddhist tradition. I am fine with them existing, but at the same time I have no desire to save their culture.
Also, America produces the majority of the worlds food through technological and industrial means. Current farming techniques used by Buddhists can not feed the world.
What are exactly are you trying to correct?
amcnea 8 months ago
@amcnea We're talking about one of the world's great faiths w/ almost half a billion adherents including millions of Americans. To write it off as not worth saving seems a tad ridiculous, especially in today's increasingly interdependent global society. I also find it a bit naive to judge a tradition solely by its current economic and political status. As I touched upon earlier, the U.S. and Europe have come into ascendancy thanks in no small part to a brutal legacy of imperialism and slavery.
fireintheequation 8 months ago
@fireintheequation "To write it off as not worth saving seems a tad ridiculous"
I wouldn't be in favor of saving Christianity, Hinduism, Judaism, Islam, etc. Also, it has nothing to do with worth. What is and is not worth saving? How do you decide? Why is A worth saving and B not? Also, did they ask to be saved? Self imposed savior complexes annoy me.
"thanks in no small part to a brutal legacy of imperialism and slavery"
Which has little to do with their culture.
amcnea 8 months ago
@amcnea This isn't just a discussion about Buddhism as far as I'm concerned. It's ultimately about the relation of all native cultures to the powers that be. Unless you're ready to tell me the Indians had it coming, that it was manifest destiny of the superior European race which led to their annihilation, I think some humility is in order. Your attitude reeks of potential bigotry.
As quick as you take credit for all our glorious achievements, can you own up to the destruction we've wrought?
fireintheequation 8 months ago
@fireintheequation Sure, we've killed people in horrible unfathomable ways and on massive scales. We have had wars and death camps. I have no illusions about our dark side nor any of the other cultures. You seem to focus on the dark side of western culture and ignore that side of other cultures. Indians killed, murdered, and did unspeakable things. So did the Buddhists, they weren't called warrior monks for nothing. Pretty much anyone who had power did horrible feats only limited by there means.
amcnea 8 months ago
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@amcnea "Pretty much anyone who had power did horrible feats only limited by their means."
Agreed. Power corrupts... and no culture or individual is ever completely immune.
If you're asking why I focus here on Western Civ, it's as simple as we are the dominant world power right now.
fireintheequation 8 months ago
@fireintheequation
True, we are the dominate culture, but I think it is important to take in the whole picture else you risk loosing perspective. America in particular has been the most benevolent empire in the history of mankind. However, that kinda like saying "he is the nicest murder I have ever met." So, take it for what it's worth.
amcnea 8 months ago
@amcnea But watch out, China is fast on our heels!
fireintheequation 8 months ago
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@fireintheequation
"But watch out, China is fast on our heels!"
True, it will be a glorious war which will shake earth to it's core. lol, that made me sad now :(
amcnea 8 months ago
@amcnea re: contributions-Buddhism offers a profound philosophy of peace and compassion for all sentient beings which is urgently needed to help mend the fractured politics and bitter religious divides which threaten our security even in the industrialized West (to say nothing of its magnificent legacy to the world of art and architecture). The Buddha's teachings have inspired countless numbers to lead happier, more fulfilling lives and to embrace a more sustainable, harmonious mode of living.
fireintheequation 8 months ago
@fireintheequation "contributions-Buddhism offers ... profound philosophy ... inspired countless ... art"
Like I said, they didn't contribute much. If you were to say something like the Western culture didn't contribute much, I could reply with something like: automobile, transistor, personal computer, internet, steam engine, otto cycle, powered flight, calculus, atomic theory, man on the moon, space station, satellites, GPS. Just to name a few but I seem to be running low on characters.
amcnea 8 months ago
@amcnea You really do worship at the feet of modern technology, don't you? In your laundry list of our accomplishments I should point out you've left out a not so insignificant category: weapons of ever-increasing mass destruction. What good are our creature comforts if we blow ourselves to smithereens, or to the millions whose lives have already been ruined? I have to say I find your us vs. them mentality rather childish, ignorant of larger moral realities which bind every culture to the next.
fireintheequation 8 months ago
@fireintheequation "You really do worship at the feet of modern technology, don't you?"
Feel free not to use them. Feel free to shut off your computer.
"What good are our creature comforts if we blow ourselves to smithereens"
We haven't yet. And, like the Dalai Lama didn't run a military training camp in Colorado financed by the CIA. Just google "Dalai lama cia" no quotes.
"I have to say I find your us vs. them mentality rather childish"
I didn't give a TED talk bashing western society.
amcnea 8 months ago
@amcnea
I use money. I don't worship it. Much the same w/ technology. Means to an end.
Btw, Wade Davis is a Westerner-I doubt he's interested in bashing himself. If you look closely, you'll notice the title of the talk is "Worldwide Web..." not "Why Indigenous Cultures are Superior".
And does anyone besides the Chinese government or conspiracy junkies really give a damn about smear campaigns on the Dalai Lama? Once you've written the Wikipedia article, with multiple valid sources, tune me in.
fireintheequation 8 months ago
@fireintheequation
"Wade Davis is a Westerner-I doubt he's interested in bashing himself"
--Western science is a major response to minor needs
--Our billboards celebrate naked children in underwear, their billboards ... our prayers to the well being of all sentient creates.
Etc, etc, etc.
"Once you've written the Wikipedia article, with multiple valid sources, tune me in."
Umm, it's on the wikipedia page. If you actually do the google search I told you to do, it's the FIRST link.
amcnea 8 months ago
@amcnea The argument presented here is for recognizing reasonable limits to science and technology and for exposing the myth of endless growth and progress that a high tech society can perpetuate. The recent near total collapse of global financial markets is an abundantly clear indication that the excesses of our consumer culture cannot continue indefinitely.
fireintheequation 8 months ago
@fireintheequation
"The argument presented here is for recognizing reasonable limits to science and technology and for exposing the myth of endless growth and progress that a high tech society can perpetuate"
Umm, who is presenting this argument. The speaker makes no mention of such a thing. Are you presenting this as a new argument?
"The recent near total collapse of global financial markets ..."
That's a whole different thing, which I don't think we should bring into this conversation.
amcnea 8 months ago
@amcnea Absolutely Wade Davis argues that the value of science is limited past a certain level of economic prosperity. Past that point investment in technology can offer only diminishing returns to our standard of living. That is what is meant by a "major response to minor needs". Put another way, we in the developed world have by and large met our basic survival needs. What is missing perhaps is a sense of the big picture, of our place in the cosmos. We must recover a sense of the sacred.
fireintheequation 8 months ago
@fireintheequation "Absolutely Wade Davis argues ..."
He doesn't do a very good job of arguing that in this video.
"What is missing perhaps is a sense of the big picture, of our place in the cosmos. We must recover a sense of the sacred."
Umm, that's called science, that's called cosmology. A "sense of the sacred" is rubbish. It is nothing more then fairy tales and amounts to nothing. Many of the horrible things that you point out about the west comes from this "sense of the sacred".
amcnea 8 months ago
@amcnea You and Richard Dawkins would get along famously.
Whether you believe in God or not, the essence of religion is really very simple and actually quite hard to argue with. It's called the Golden Rule. The fact that people violate it doesn't prove religion is bad, it proves people are bad at being religious.
Have you ever watched a movie you knew was fiction that inspired you nonetheless? Stories and myths and even fairy tales can instruct. Don't throw the baby out with the bathwater.
fireintheequation 8 months ago
@fireintheequation "the essence of religion is ... called the Golden Rule."
Um, no. Have you ever read the bible? Just staying things are the way you would like them to be doesn't make it so, and it's not really historically accurate.
"Have you ever watched a movie you knew was fiction that inspired you nonetheless?"
Being inspired by fiction is one thing, not being able to tell the difference between fiction and fact is another. It's called delusional or insane.
amcnea 8 months ago
@amcnea Like I said you have no heroes besides yourself. Mandela, Gandhi, MLK, "just politicians". What's more, human kindness is just a ruse invented by evil geniuses like Jesus and the Buddha to delude the masses. Spot on, kid.
fireintheequation 8 months ago
@fireintheequation I am sure they would have approved of your incessant whining and snide remarks. What you don't understand is that these people have myths about them. If they actually were your heroes I would think you would actually take the time to study them. Like I said before its delusional not to be able to distinguish fact from fiction. If you want to live in your fantasy world, that's fine. Just don't insist that it is real to the rest of us.
amcnea 8 months ago
@amcnea Frankly I think I was being generous even in putting up with you. You're so completely wrapped up in this scientistic dogma of yours you don't even recognize anymore how arrogant you've become. Here are the facts-the Dalai Lama was only 15 when he was forced to flee Tibet. Your entire case against him rests on events before he had even flown the coop. If you really were interested in breaking through illusion like you say you'd start by taking a long hard look at the person called you.
fireintheequation 8 months ago
@fireintheequation "I was being generous even in putting up with you"
Umm, your the one who contacted me. I have been putting up with you.
"wrapped up in this scientistic dogma"
What dogma? Feeding and clothing people? Curing disease such a smallpox?
"Your entire case against him rests on events before he had even flown the coop"
Well, the military training camp in Colorado financed by the CIA was after that. You can't state he is a good person simply because he didn't hold power.
amcnea 8 months ago
@amcnea The dogma that says all spirituality is nonsense, that it serves no purpose. Just b/c it doesn't work for you doesn't mean it can't for others.
And btw no one's exactly forcing you to respond to me. You're engaged in this as much as I am. I saw several comments of yours that struck me as absurd and felt compelled to set the record straight.
Speaking of which, since when is defending your country against invaders an evil act? What exactly are you accusing the current Dalai Lama of?
fireintheequation 8 months ago
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@fireintheequation "I saw several comments of yours that struck me as absurd and felt compelled to set the record straight."
When are you going to get around to that?
"since when is defending your country against invaders an evil act?"
He was protecting his surfs, not his people. It's not like they were free. They are better off under Chinese rule.
"What exactly are you accusing the current Dalai Lama of?"
Not being some great ideal of Buddhist ethics and just a simple dictator.
amcnea 8 months ago
@amcnea There's really no arguing with you about the issue of Tibet b/c you're hell bent on demonizing any religious leader no matter the facts. But again, here they are:
A) China's record of human rights violations is atrocious, particularly towards ethnic minorities.
B) The Dalai Lama is almost universally recognized by the Tibetan people as their leader in exile.
C) That government in exile supports democratic reforms in Tibet where possible.
All of this can be verified on Wiki and elsewhere.
fireintheequation 8 months ago
@fireintheequation "China's record of human rights violations is atrocious"
So is the Lama's.
"The Dalai Lama is almost universally recognized by the Tibetan people as their leader in exile."
Same has been true for many dictators.
"That government in exile supports democratic reforms in Tibet where possible."
Of course they do, its good PR.
When you said you "saw several comments of yours that struck me as absurd" I thought you were talking about my original posts not since then.
amcnea 8 months ago
@amcnea Btw, accd to your radical worldview, the DL is no different from any public person who's ever existed. They're all self-interested individuals making political moves, correct? If that's true, I fail to see how he's qualitatively any worse than most heads of state. There's no country on earth which has a crystal clean record on human rights. And no person or leader without flaws. If all you're saying is that he's like everyone else, well then fine. Who am I to deny you your pessimism?
fireintheequation 8 months ago
@fireintheequation "I fail to see how he's qualitatively any worse than most heads of state."
I never said he was, I have stated several times he is "Just like many many other dictators." I am just saying he is now some superior specimen of human being like you seem to think.
amcnea 8 months ago
@amcnea The DL is widely considered to be one of the most influential spiritual leaders in the world. Never said he was a "superior specimen", whatever that is, just a person with a good heart who happens to have accomplished some extraordinary things.
fireintheequation 8 months ago
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@fireintheequation
"Never said he was a superior specimen, whatever that is,"
What you said was: "I'm afraid nothing you say will convince me the Dalai Lama is anything but a model of righteous living". Which is what I was referring to. "just a person with a good heart who happens to have accomplished some extraordinary things."
You stated much more then that, and even this is a bit of a stretch.
amcnea 8 months ago
@amcnea Some of your msgs are being flagged as spam so I'm delayed in reading them-it might be b/c you're posting multiple msgs at once.
Re: "righteous living" critique - if I've over-stated the DL's greatness, it's only in response to repeated comments from you which suggest he is evil. Neither fair nor accurate to put him in the same camp as tyrannical dictators like Kim Jong-Il. The DL was well ahead of his time in calling for a ban on nuclear weapons and never a threat to global security.
fireintheequation 8 months ago
@fireintheequation "Some of your msgs are being flagged as spam"
Same is happening to your messages.
"Neither fair nor accurate ... as tyrannical dictators like Kim Jong-Il."
I never compared him to Kim Jong-II, but by definition he was a tyrannical dictator. Also, I don't really want to get into comparing dictators.
amcnea 8 months ago
@amcnea "Same is happening to your msgs"
Yes, the one case I've noticed it in my own msgs was when I tried to post two at once.
"I don't want to get into comparing dictators"
I never admitted the Dalai Lama was a dictator.
"By definiton he was a tyrannical dictator"
You've claimed many times that he doesn't have real power. So who exactly has he been dictating to and tyrannizing over?
fireintheequation 8 months ago
@fireintheequation "You've claimed many times that he doesn't have real power. So who exactly has he been dictating to and tyrannizing over?"
I used the past tense was in that sentence. He was a dictator in exile, but apparently he just stepped down. Now, he is a religious figure consolidating his power. My guess is that he is hoping by renouncing the thrown, he thinks China might eventually let him back in and he go sponge of the Tibetan people once again.
amcnea 8 months ago
@amcnea For all your reputed inside knowledge of Buddhist society, I wonder have you spent any real time with Buddhist people, I mean flesh and blood Buddhists?
fireintheequation 8 months ago
@fireintheequation "For all your reputed inside knowledge of Buddhist society"
What knowledge is that. I would call the historical record inside knowledge. All I really said is that I don't really think their culture is worth saving, and I don't really think they have much to offer. And, considering that they never asked to be saved I don't think we should force it on them. They probably fine people just living their lives. But to answer you question, no.
amcnea 8 months ago
@amcnea "they never asked to be saved"
Actually the Tibetan gov't in exile continues to ask that the plight of Tibetans in China be more widely exposed and solutions sought out. It's ultimately about the protection of basic human rights, not "who is worth saving".
fireintheequation 8 months ago
@fireintheequation "Actually the Tibetan gov't in exile continues"
Their not the Buddhist culture. They are just one very small group of people. Basic human rights isn't what this video was about. It was about non-western cultures. I am speaking in that context.
amcnea 8 months ago
@amcnea And this just in (from your favorite Wiki article on the 14th DL): "In a speech on 3-11-2011, the 14th Dalai Lama stated he will propose changes to the constitution of the Tibetan government in exile which will remove the Dalai Lama's role as head of state, replacing him with an elected leader. He formally submitted his resignation as political leader on 3-14-2011." Doesn't sound much like the work of a dictator intent on consolidating power. More like that of a simple Buddhist monk.
fireintheequation 8 months ago
@fireintheequation "... replacing him with an elected leader"
He has no power and it's a good PR move. He looses nothing and gains sympathy, money, and support. You seem to be easily fooled by politics. He steps down from the head of a government which doesn't really exist. Oh no, great loss there.
"Doesn't sound much like the work of a dictator intent on consolidating power."
Absolutely it does. That is exactly what he has gained by this, power.
amcnea 8 months ago
@amcnea It's practically unheard of for a major world leader in good health to voluntarily step down without scandal or coercion from without. Can you imagine a Khomeini or a Kim Jong-il or even say the Pope making the same move? Never. You're so darn cynical you can't even see straight anymore. But I suppose it's to be expected since you don't seem to believe in compassion as a legitimate human motivation. (It's just a lie invented by priests???) Through a glass darkly. I'd hate to be you.
fireintheequation 8 months ago
@fireintheequation "It's practically unheard of for a major world leader in good health to voluntarily step down without scandal or coercion from without."
He is not a major world leader. He is in exile. Simply trying to retain as much power as possible.
"But I suppose it's to be expected since you don't seem to believe in compassion"
When did I ever say that. I am just not duped as easily as you are.
"I'd hate to be you."
Right back at you.
amcnea 8 months ago
@fireintheequation "The dogma that says all spirituality is nonsense, that it serves no purpose."
Umm, it is nonsense and it serves no positive purpose. But, what does that have to do with science? Spirituality being nothing more then lies usually used to separate a fool from his money or give some undue and undeserved power to some sort of priest is completely separate from and has nothing to do with science.
amcnea 8 months ago
@amcnea Like it or not, the founders of the great religions were all interested in promoting good will and kindness among people. If their messages have been corrupted over time by political institutions, that doesn't negate what they were teaching. Was Jesus a fool to sacrifice his life for a cause? Was the Buddha a fool to renounce his wealth to seek enlightenment? Are you really going to tell me the world would be a better place if all everyone cared about was padding their own pockets?
fireintheequation 8 months ago
@fireintheequation "Like it or not, the founders of the great religions were all interested in promoting good will and kindness among people"
Theres no evidence of that.
"Was Jesus a fool to sacrifice his life for a cause?"
Did Jesus even exist?
"Are you really going to tell me the world would be a better place if all everyone cared about was padding their own pockets?"
You live in a world where the only 2 options are believing in lies or padding your pockets? Thats sad.
amcnea 8 months ago
@amcnea "You live in a world w 2 options...lies or padding pockets."
Well, let's think about this. What is spirituality but the belief that there is something besides our selfish genes which can ultimately motivate us? If you deny any such motivation is possible, well then we're all just terminally selfish creatures. Every act of kindness would merely be a veiled form of selfishness. So yes, the two options are spirituality or radical selfishness. If you discover another, I'd like to know it.
fireintheequation 8 months ago
@fireintheequation "What is spirituality but the belief that there is something besides our selfish genes"
Um, no.
"So yes, the two options are spirituality or radical selfishness."
As I said, thats sad.
"If you discover another, I'd like to know it."
You can believe in kindness and compassion without believing in Gods, Sky Daddies, and fictional characters. One does NOT necessitate the other.
amcnea 8 months ago
@amcnea If science is all you believe in, then kindness are compassion are just evolutionary strategies for our genes to get ahead. We become nothing more than prisoners of our biology, soulless mechanized creatures. You're great at deflecting my criticism, but you've failed to offer any other convincing explanation.
fireintheequation 8 months ago
@fireintheequation "If science is all you believe in, then kindness are compassion are just evolutionary strategies for our genes to get ahead."
If this is true, then it doesn't matter what you believe, it will still be true. Believing in something doesn't change your DNA. The only difference you are talking about is this being true and believing in fiction versus this being true and NOT believing in fiction.
amcnea 8 months ago
@amcnea It's true that belief doesn't change our DNA but it does affect the quality of our actions, which is the very pt of believing in the 1st place. If all you believe is that we're programmed to act in our self-interest, it becomes virtually impossible to ever love someone you don't know. And if you can't care about a stranger, aren't we just stuck in a kind of social Darwinism where every man is pitted against one another? To me that's what really sad, that destruction should be inevitable.
fireintheequation 8 months ago