Reply to A Challenge to the Mens Rights Movement

[SickMouth]

Could it be? A masculinist on YouTube who isn't a feminist-hater? :D I may view more of your videos, sir.

[AoirthoirMasculinist]

@SickMouth You will not like some of my videos. We do not hate feminists. We strongly strongly disagree with many policies that feminists are pushing. We wonder why so many hate us. We wonder why so many women think it is ok to laugh about male rape, male genital mutilation, male's genitals being cutting off.

[SickMouth]

@AoirthoirMasculinist Well, I do hope you know the distinction between radical feminists and sex-positive feminists. I happen to be a sex-positive, and we support the addressing of men's concerns like the lack of awareness of male rape (esp in prison), male circumcision, the way that the family court system treats men as well as women, and so on.

[AoirthoirMasculinist]

@SickMouth I do know the difference. I have hard some very not nice things said to me by "sex positive" feminists. I have had nice comments I made not posted on their sites, so I did an experiment and called them names..and those got posted. So I have seen that rational disagreement will by some be deleted but anything "proving" a man is evil..will go through ...

I do not have to state that if what I just said doesnt apply to anyone, it doesnt apply.

[AoirthoirMasculinist]

@SickMouth But those that are willing to march with us in opposition to males being imprisoned, male circumcision, including in support ofthe 30 million Africans that are about to be circumcised against their will, go with us on Pigwalks and more, and not willing to shame our bodies, we Masculinists will open dialogue with.

All persons are my cousins. THanks to GoingRampant for the gender neutral suggestion.

[SickMouth]

@AoirthoirMasculinist You've got all of it right except for the protesting of men going to prison. Anyone who is convicted of a crime, male OR female, should go to prison. This isn't to say the the prison system doesn't have serious issues and needs reform, but people who are convicted need to go to jail -- and jail will be perfectly humane once the system is reformed.

[AoirthoirMasculinist]

@SickMouth The problem with prison is it doesnt solve violence, it makes it worth. Conviction for theft? The ancients had it better, repay. Since prison wasn't a case in the Keltoi world, minor crimes almost never escalated to murder. Prison is college for crimals, putitng minor criminals in with violent offenders makes things worse not safer. Only the most egregiously violent, that wont stop and proven should be jailed..

Most convicts are drug related. England wants to end prison for women..

[AoirthoirMasculinist]

@AoirthoirMasculinist So why not men also? Not end prison for some women, all women... even murderers... There are non adversarial solutions to crime..and many things dont need to be crime at all.

[SickMouth]

@AoirthoirMasculinist Did you not read the part I wrote that said it needs reform? And where is this evidence that England wants to end prison for women?

[AoirthoirMasculinist]

@SickMouth Did you read where you said " Anyone who is convicted of a crime, male OR female, should go to prison."

I get to disagree with that. Reform a system designed to create violence? Enjoy.

As to your other question ask an MRA. I was polite to you and presumed good intent. I do not now. Enjoy.

[GoingRampant]

@AoirthoirMasculinist Please do not see SickMouth as having ill intent. She has different views and wished to debate, but not in a badgering/trolling way. The reason any of us go on here is to assert our political beliefs, and her style involves debate. She is actually very open to men's issues, and you shouldn't just dismiss her as a troll.

[AoirthoirMasculinist]

@GoingRampant I will unblock her because frankly I trust you. One of the flags that I have is when someone says "did you read what I wrote..." since I read every single word or I do not reply to the person.

Just to clarify I don't call people trolls because I consider it a method of causing others to refuse to listen to what someone says. Some of her videos I agree with some I disagree with. That's how life should be though.

Thanks for addressing this in the kind manner you did.

[AoirthoirMasculinist]

Note. GoingRampant is a female. Therefore I will call her a sister. In future if I am unsure of how someone identifies I will call them cousin rather than brother or sister. Thanks for the gender neutral suggestion GoingRampant.

Her being a female does not change her valid questions and it does not change my valid response. I agree with feminists when I agree with them and I disagree with them when I disagree. Simple math.

[GoingRampant]

With regard to Final Justice's (slanderous) comment about studying my other videos for misandry, I recommend watch?v=tpL7M09B720 , in which I criticize feminist Joss Whedon for producing a Dollhouse episode in which female-on-male sexual assault isn't taken as seriously as the male-on-female variation seen repeatedly throughout Dollhouse. I speak from a feminist perspective, but for the well-being of men.

[AoirthoirMasculinist]

@GoingRampant I will watch all your videos soon. We have decided to invite you to chats and maybe write with us. We realize there is a lot we are going to disagree on. So be it. We are still interested in expanding. We had a meeting tonight and everyone agreed your response was well spoken and kind. They also agreed it was a good idea to continue the dialogue. We hope you do as well. (Thank you for your videos about male rape victims...)

[FinalJusticeMovement]

Just for the record, Aoirthoir,

"GoingRampant" IS female, she IS a feminist, and most of all,

she is a female SUPREMACIST. I have followed her work pretty

much since the beginning and I can vouch for the fact that, for the

most part, she is more so AGAINST men and the collective dignified

liberation and unity of men than she could ever be FOR it, brother.

Watch some of her other videos (if you so desire) and study them,

and you will confirm for yourself all I have said.

--The Final Justice

[AoirthoirMasculinist]

@FinalJusticeMovement

Thanks. The only thing that would need to change in my video though is "brother" to

"sister". (All men and women are my brothers and sisters, even those trying to harm me). The points in my video still stand 100%. I will support men who are "feminine".

[FinalJusticeMovement]

Fine.

I implore you to do so on YOUR terms and by YOUR understanding

of malehood, rather than by dogmatic feminist thought.

Never compromise.

--The Final Justice

[AoirthoirMasculinist]

@FinalJusticeMovement Precisely. My video is in fact based on my attempt to eliminate male shaming that typically feminists employ on men. As mentioned in the video I've been called "feminine", "masculine", "the most masculine man I've ever met" and by feminists "hypermasculine" (trying to pretend to be over masculine to compensate).

So my words are based on my definitions not those of feminists.

[KrazyChick17]

isn't GoingRampant female? :S

[AoirthoirMasculinist]

@KrazyChick17 If so then i would gladly adjust my video to say sister instead of brother. GoingRampant's Gender or Sex or Gender Presentation does not change the facts of the reply.

[AoirthoirMasculinist]

@MassEFR34k Brotherly love can change that lack of honesty.

[AoirthoirMasculinist]

@MassEFR34k This Brother that my video responds to, has ideologies which hurt men. Just as all traditions hurt men. Name a one that has not? All have.

So as I agape all of those in those other ideologies that hurt men, I will agape this Brother. I can do so to them and him without agreeing with them in all or even many or any things. Agape and calling him a man and every man a man, is a free gift that I offer to all men from me, whether they deserve it or not. More Masculinists will follow.

[AoirthoirMasculinist]

@MassEFR34k Feminist shaming tactics made me angry too. I do not follow the feminist tactic of shaming nor rejecting the pain of men, even men I disagree with in areas, like this man.

Angered expressions have their place and we have had our time for it. Now 2012 will be the year of results. We are giving men places where they can express frustration when needed and express love. We are bringing a new ethos to the MRM and the world.

All men are worthy of freedom, respect, diginity and love.

[AoirthoirMasculinist]

@AoirthoirMasculinist All men means all men, even men that do not deserve it by their actions. Agape is principled love granted as a free gift from the giver to the receiver, even when the receiver has done nothing worthy of the free gift.

This will not be an overnight process. But feminists will have in the Masculinist the greatest fight in their history. They can combat legislation, politics, memes. They cannot combat love. We Masculinists are setting ourselves aside for the greater good.

[galerouth]

@A

"Feminist shaming tactics made me angry too." like what? because i, as a feminist who supports men's rights, (like male abortion ) am sick n' tired of all this anti-feminist-generalities-wit­hout-proof crap-- especially, from the MRM.

like blaming feminism for a man CHOOSING to be with a materialistic woman because she hot, but he can't afford her lifestyle and can't say no to her, then she leaves him broke.

there is no countability on the man's part for his actions

[AoirthoirMasculinist]

@galerouth Some examples: 1. "My mom abused me" Feminist: YOU HATE WOMEN! 2. Man up! 3. You have a small Penis! 4. You cant get laid! 5. You are gay! 6. You are violent! --- I dont blame feminism for my choice in females. I am celibate and will not have a relationship. I am not an MRA, I am a Masculinist. I do not have to offer proof in a conversation limited to 500 characters.

[galerouth]

@A

whatever, it's just hard to believe you.

1. who said that, and why blame feminism because you were hurt? i don't hate white people because some white man called me, a nigger.

2 "man up" to what? man up usually means to accept your responsibility, but we both know there are choices to consider and moral relativism is real.

3. you either do or you don't. maybe your next vid should be about, small penis acceptance, pleasure and our society's fix on big penises.

[AoirthoirMasculinist]

@galerouth I don't care if you believe me. "Whatever" Typical female response.

1. I don't blame feminism. I blame the abuser. Did you read what I wrote? You asked for examples of SHAMING TACTICS. The shaming tactic is that when I say "my mom abused me" the feminist responds with "you hate women". You do realize that just because they accuse me of hating doesnt mean I do.

2. I decide my responsibility, not another.

3. I have already made a video about small penises.

[galerouth]

@AoirthoirMasculinist

but to be honest, none of that shit has to do with feminists-- men say that to each other all the time.

[AoirthoirMasculinist]

@galerouth Feminist men say that certainly. I've not had Masculinists ever say that to me.

And yes it does have to do with feminists when feminists do it. The fact that someone else might also do it does not make it less a feminist shaming tactic. A feminist shaming tactic is a tactic feminists use to shame.

So ja it does have to do with feminists.

[AoirthoirMasculinist]

@MassEFR34k Certainly.

As I said I can agree with things I agree with and disagree with things I disagree with. The two are no incompatible.

[AoirthoirMasculinist]

@MassEFR34k Actually I have seen many men who at least identify as MRA mock feminine men, mock gay men, mock atheist men, mock "momma's boys" and more. Now The leaders do not do this. I've not seen Chapin or Elam or Berty or others like them do it. But, when it happens in comments, i hardly see a response challenging the misandry.

But we Masculinists are changing that. We refuse to tolerate name calling. We instead address the issue we disagree with.

[AoirthoirMasculinist]

@MassEFR34k I do not doubt from his other videos that he takes a stance in many cases against men. he also takes a stance for men, for instance highlighting that rape of males does happen and showing it in media. He doesnt broker but calling it rape. Being there before I appreciate his statements.

I can agree with him where I agree and disagree with him where I disagree.

[AoirthoirMasculinist]

@MassEFR34k I, like you, am a man. He, like us, is a man. I will be releasing my video tonight about why we should not call men mangina. Perhaps when you watch it, you will understand better. I address the issue not the gender of a man. I can say a man is hurting men without using a pejorative.

In this case I addressed only one very reasonable question of his. Can MRM support feminine men. I say yes. I have been told I am feminine. So I say yes, we can support feminine men.

[pinegrove33]

never heard of that fellow, i'll check out the other vid

[AoirthoirMasculinist]

@pinegrove33 Bernard, make no mistake he is a feminist or feminist supporter. He does discuss things such as rape of males, but claims it is a feminists issue. My experience has shown that not a single self identified feminist has ever supported us when we inform about being abused.

But his points are salient. A man deserves to be addressed as a man regardless of how he acts, good or bad. I address this in two other videos coming out this week and was just coincidence I stumbled upon him.

[crypter27]

Welcome to the MRM!

[AoirthoirMasculinist]

@crypter27 Thanks. If you're welcoming the other fella, thanks too. Though he's a feminist or feminist supporter.

[crypter27]

@AoirthoirMasculinist Men like that are brain washed idiots,you can blame the school system for that!