Yes,the guys is right read a Holy Bible & understand it b4 to interact.Jesus just want us to live happy,peace and love to one another.Praise the Lord!
I just want all the jews to know that Christians love them,,,we have never hated jews,,,never,,,we dont blame u for Jesus death,,,I had never heard that in my life til the passion movie came out and I was hurt that Jews thought we hated them,,,we love our Jewish brothers,,and we dont want to convert you to christianity ,,,it would be nice if we were all just jews who believe in Jesus ,,,the catholics ruined it,,,not I want to stress that christians love the jews
PART 2 TO THE JEWS,,,Never believe that christians hate you,,,we do not,,,you were and are GODs chosen people the covenent will never be broken,,,GOD will soon cause tribulation but he will not destroy you like he will the rest of the nations,,,messiah is coming very soon,,,dont reject Jesus ,,,he is your messiah,,,youve been lied to bc the rabbis were afraid Judaism wld be destroyed if Jews believed in Jesus christianity is not a different religion it belongs to YOU! RECLAIM IT WE LOVE YOU!!!!!
I want to tell all the jews something HITLER was not a christian,,,he was an occultist a theosophist fr a catholic backround,,,catholics ARE NOT considered christians they killed as many christians as they did jews,,,we broke away fr the catholics bc theyre murderers we consider them anti-christ read the london confession of faith,,,We love our jewish brothers we believe GOD preserved his word w you his feast days, his reckoning of time etc someday we shall be one when messiah comes WE LOVE YOU
There is so much confusion in the world about modern day Messianic Jews. The followers of Yeshua attended synagogue and were considered a Jewish sect until the end of the Fourth Century, when the Roman church forced them to renounce Judaism. Today, Messianic Jews have no pressure to hide their acceptance of Messiah or their Jewish backgrounds. Amazing how things have changed in 2,000 years.
I'm a practicing Catholic and I support Jews for Jesus. If any Jew wants follow Jesus, why do they have to get hassled by Rabbi Heir and others? You can be 100% Jewish and 100% Christian. God bless Jews for Jesus, God bless Israel. Down with intolerance, anitsemitism and racism. Peace Shalom!
David Brickner is a great man. It's nice to see God's people accept God's Son, Jesus Christ, as their savior. He died first for the Jew, then for the Gentile. I support Jews for Jesus 100%! :)
Messiah clearly has not come! We have no temple, world peace, and universal knowlege of G-d! if anything we Jews have had more problems given to us by Xtianity!
@KingOystar=You think you're always right and correct when you say that the Messiah clearly has not come? You're sincerely dead wrong and you're blind like Rabbi Schmuley Boteach and Rabbi Marvin Hier. Genesis 49:10, Numbers 24:17, Jeremiah 23:5-6, Isaiah 7:14, Isaiah 9:6, Zechariah 9:9, Isaiah 53, Psalm 22, and Daniel 9:24-27 are all messianic prophecies. The problem is you have all ignored and rejected Daniel's prophecy (see Daniel 9:24-27) and you already missed the Messiah.
@KingOystar=Yeshua of Nazareth fulfilled not just 48 messianic prophecies, but more that 324 individual prophecies that the Hebrew prophets wrote concerning the Messiah. Why? What are the things that you expect to be promised in the Messianic Age? World peace, the Third Jewish Temple built, and universal knowledge of God, right?
that's pretty much what you said before, but still didn't bring any evidence. it's the Christian belief, which they're entitled to. don't try pushing it on Jews without having good proof to your claims
Couldnt agree more. But its not the orthodox jews who are looking to convince other people of anything. We are very secure with our religion, and we have no interest in convincing christians to give up their beliefs. It's the christian missionaries (especially jewsforjesus) who are in the business of convincing (or deceiving?) other people.
@rafiawad I would agree with you, unless Jesus is the who he said he is (the Jewish Messiah) and the only way to have reconciliation God. If he's not, then you can go on with being content with orthodox Judaism, but if he is, and only He can truly reveal it to you, you owe it to yourself to find out.
@JewsForJesus there were many "Jewish Messiahs" alsong the way. Jesus wasn't the first and wasn't the last to make a lot of claims for and against Judaism and about himself. There's nothing special about him.
Judaism has no need for him. There's no good evidence he was a true Messiah (or God...).
Most people in the world seem to need a "human based" God. They can't grasp anything beyond it. Christianity answers that for people.
@JewsForJesus there were many prophets, or people, if you will, who said many things. prophecy, even if it turns out to be true, does not necessarily make one a true prophet, and does not give one the right to go against the Torah (according to the Torah, which Christians claim Jesus lived by). and a person proclaiming about himself that he's God does just that. shows a great big ego maybe.
@brillythekid Who has the power to forgive sin, only God. The prophets knew that God would send his own to suffer and die for the sins of humanity. Jesus was much more than a prophet.
The fact that jesus was born jewish and his first followers were born jewish proves nothing about the compatability between christianity and judaism. Christians must stop using that argument. I have jewish friends who eat pork and dont believe in god. Jews do all sorts of stupid things, but none of that changes what the religion of judaism is - Its the Torah and that's it!
Sorry, but the new testament has no place within judaism!
@rafiawad So you don't believe in the the whole Tanach (includes the Torah and Prophets)? You just believe in the first five books? Did you know that Judaism has as many denominations as Christianity does, and a very varied belief and interpretation of scripture? Which do you think is holds truth?
@jfjweb No, u misunderstood me. Torah = The hebrew Tanach (including the prophets and writings) + the oral law. There might be denominations of jews who believe otherwise, but I believe that only orthodox streams of judaism have any validity from a religious standpoint, since only they have the goal of maintaining the "mesorah" - ie, the original teachings passed from g-d to moses to joshua etc. etc. to the leaders of the great assembly, to the rabbis. All other streams are reformist.
@rafiawad Orthodox are as much reformists, as any other sect of Judaism. Do you put weight on "Orthodox" because they are the most observant of "the Law"? Judaism's been reformed since the destruction of the second temple. The sacrifice has been reformed, the laws have been reformed (eve those of the Orthodox), the interpretation of the Tanach has been reformed and continues to be done so in the Mishnah and the Talmud.
How can you personally know what is true and correct interpretation?
@JewsForJesus The diff between orthodox (rabbinic) judaism and other sects is that [ideally] orthodox try their best to identify and adhere to the true interpretation of the original laws given by god to moses (written & oral). This is done in a systematic and academic way - the talmudic system. Evolution in orthodox practice typically results from stringencies or differences in customs, where there is uncertainty about the true application of certain laws.
@rafiawad -the above is very well spoken. What scriptural basis can you find for replacing blood sacrifice that was always understood as a requirement for forgiveness of sin. Also the scriptures point to the Messiah of Israel who would fulfill very specific requirements, and yet these are ignored today even by the "Orthodox". All I am saying is, don't just assume that because the people have chosen a very specific line of interpretation, that it is biblically accurate. Study them for yourself.
@JewsForJesus I do try to study as much as I can, and so far, given my yeshiva and post-yeshiva study, i find nothing convincing in the christian position. As for the issues of abolishment of animal sacrifice in the absence of a jewish temple, and the criteria of the jewish messiah, I will not get into it here because the explanations are easily available on the websites of jewsforjudaism or outreachjudaism.
@JewsForJesus Other denominations of jews, on the other hand, divest themselves of some or all laws. These reformations certainly have no torah basis - they are done in the name of modernity. Christians as well - they had a hard time converting ppl given all the difficult laws of the torah so they invented some bogus reason to stop keeping them.
@rafiawad Orthodox are as much reformists, as any other sect of Judaism. Do you put weight on "Orthodox" because they are the most observant of "the Law"? Judaism's been reformed since the destruction of the second temple. The sacrifice has been reformed, the laws have been reformed (eve those of the Orthodox), the interpretation of the Tanach has been reformed and continues to be done so in the Mishnah and the Talmud.
How can you personally know what is true and correct interpretation?
@jfjweb There is only Jewish Christians until there are no Jews left to convert. After that, there are only Christians and that's what you want!!!!! That's your bottom line! Which is fine though because your faith obligates you to preach your gospel. But STOP trying to trick unknowing Jews about converting to Christianity.
@mike8984 I think you missed the point and all the other Web sites. My close friend (a Jewish rabbi) says he did not observe Jewish holidays or appreciate his Jewish heritage until he accepted Yeshua and became a rabbi.
@jfjweb Do you not have the balls to do it the honest way?!! Why is it so hard honest and upfront? You are a Christian organization! Why do you hide your Christian symbols and names when approaching Jews? Does Jesus want you to preach with cunning, lying, or trickery behavior? Or would Jesus want you to preach his Gospel with complete honesty and understanding?
@jfjweb If you believe his Gospel so strongly, why resort to such Tactics? Shouldn't your gospel not need such extreme efforts, if your only preaching the Truth??? Why not advertise your Faith honestly? Why not argue your ideas in a friendly dialogue? Also, the best way to convince others, is by showing them by your example. Is that not enough for preaching for the Gospel of Jesus?!! What would Jesus do? How would he preach?
@sorcharosie I know that's what christians say and believe. But us jews (knowledgable jews - not j4j) have no reason to believe it, simply because jesus never fulfilled the criteria of the jewish messiah as per the old testament (tanach). No amount of ambiguous "proof-texts" can change the fact that we do not have world peace nor a rebuilt temple in jerusalem. If Jesus would have brought about those things like the tanach says the messiah is supposed to, then maybe id believe in him.
@rafiawad Danial 9 talks about The Messiah coming before the destruction of the second Temple. If Jesus wasn't the Messiah then who who was it? Because they had to come during/ around the time Jesus was on the earth. And as for your issue with World peace. Your mindset about peace needs to change. Let me ask you something, where does scripture say that the Messiah would bring "world peace"? And if he is supposed to bring it shouldn't peace start in the heart? Since you cant force it on anyone?
@sorcharosie Ur arguments rely on assumptions based on christian re-interpretations/mistranslations of hebrew biblical passages. So my answer is: Daniel 9, in hebrew, doesnt say what u say it does. In the hebrew bible, the word "mashiach", meaning "anointed" is often used to refer to 1)kings, and 2)high-priests. In context, its clear that Daniel 9 is not referring to "the Messiah" but 2 kings: 1) Cyrus, and 2) Alexander Yannai. This has always been the understanding of the txt according 2 jews.
@sorcharosie And 2ndly, the tanach in Isaiah 2, referring to messianic times: "Nation will not lift up sword against nation, and never again will they learn war". The passage seems pretty clear to me. Peace = no war. It doesnt say anything about "peace starting in the heart". I dont care if peace starts in the heart or in my left pinky-toe. According to the JEWISH bible, peace = no more war. Since we still have war, we're not in messianic times.
@sorcharosie And to take that a step further, i think it's YOUR mindset about peace that has to change. Its this nonsensical concept of "peace-of-heart" (which really means nothing) that allowed christians to murder non-christians for centuries. Some peace you guys believe in. I prefer to my mindset of peace. It results in alot fewer dead people.
@rafiawad What makes you think that everyone who does something in Jesus' name is Christian? People use excuses all the time to justify what they are doing and in the case of many evil things such as the Crusades or Holocaust or the Inquisition. Just because they used the name of Jesus doesnt mean that those acts were something Jesus stood for. And how dare you, how dare you group me in with the same people who murderded my family members in the Holocaust, just because we believe in Jesus....
@rafiawad Can you please enlighten me on how you propose world peace will come about if no one has inner peace first? How do you propose the Messiah is going to bring World Peace?
@sorcharosie Classic - u claim that belief in jesus is the fast-track to salvation and inner peace, but then u say that those who murdered in the name christianity were not actually christians. But I dont understand. They accepted jesus didnt they? So what happened to the "inner-peace"? I am compelled to arrive at 2 possible conclusions: 1) Accepting jesus does not necessarily lead to "inner-peace", or 2) Having "inner-peace" and being a murderous animal are not mutually exclusive.
@sorcharosie U ask how world peace will come without inner-peace first. Before I respond to that question, can you please tell me what you mean by "inner-peace" or peace-in-the-heart? To me, "inner-peace" just sounds like an ambiguous nice-sounding phrase that actually means nothing. So id love for you to clarify it for me. Message me personally if u'd like, its easier. If i dont respond, it's b/c I've already started shabbos (which i assume u keep too b/c ure "jewish").
@sorcharosie doesnt make us evil. Jesus taught to love other people. And people like Hitler and Stalin used his name to justify the evil that they were doing. You do not have the right to group followers of Christ under the same blanket. And Shame on you for judging people you dont even know, and judging a faith which you have done no investigation of your own into. Have you even read all of Tenak? Have you Read all of the New Testament Scriptures?
Brickner believes that G-d is perfect. He also believes that G-d revealed Himself on Mt. Sinai and gave the Jewish People the "old" Bible. If G-d is perfect, He wouldn't say time and time and time again in the "old" Bible that he is not corporeal (flesh and blood)-- and then say, "Oops. I'm flesh & blood."
G-d doesn't make mistakes. Don't give me that stuff about G-d finally realizing that Jews just couldn't make it His way. Jesus is for Christians; Judaism is for Jews.
@MARTINSTERN Wrong Rom 6:1-2 What shall we say, then? Shall we go on sinning so that grace may increase? By no means! We died to sin; how can we live in it any longer?
do not believe me, believe the miracles, that you may know and understand that the Father is in me, and I in the Father. Again they tried to seize Him. but He eascaped their grasp.
replied the Jews, "but for blasphemy, because you, a mere man, claim to be God."
Jesus answered them, "Is it not written in your Law. 'I have said you are gods'? If he called them 'gods,' to whom the word of God came- and the Scriptures cannot be broken-what about the one whom the Father set apart as his very own and sent onto the world? Why then do you accuse me of blasphemy because I said, 'I am God's Son? Do not believe me unless I do what mt Father does. But if I do it, even though you
My sheep listen to my voice ; I know them, and they follow me. I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one can snatch them out of my hand. My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all; no one can snatch them out of my Father's hand. I and the Father are one.
Again the Jews picked up a stones to stone Him, but Jesus said to them, "I have shown many great miracles from the Father. For which of these do you stone me?"
This is not the 1st time the some jews choose to not believe in Jesus. John 10 Then cam the Feast of Dedication at Jerusalem. It was winter, and Jesus was was in the temple area walking in Solomon's Colonnade. The jews gather around Him , saying, "How long will you keep in suspense? If you are the Christ tell us plainly."
Jesus answered, "I did tell you, but you do not believe. The miracles I do in my Father's name speak for me, but you do not believe because you are not my sheep.
The argument "jesus himself was jewish therefore christianity is jewish" is absurd. By that logic we should also say "Marxism is jewish", Just because something is founded by a jewish person does not automatically make that thing compatible with judaism (the religion).
A belief system is jewish if it is in line with the fundemental laws/tenets of the jewish Torah. And it takes a very basic understanding of judaism to know that christianity is utterly incompatible with the jewish Torah.
nobody converts to Judaism, to become an Israeli citizen you have to take a blood test to decide if your blood is Jewish or not, how they come to that decison I dont know but it's true,
everybody converts to Christianity and Islam it's more common
nobody can prove god exist's and nobody can prove god dont exist
First God doesn't like religions nor does he accepts any of them. Religions are Satan's idea to confuse people. Since all religions contradict in one way or another. Religions are corrupt. The Bible is God's message to the world. God wants us to be aware of who he is. God is the messiah Yehoshua which people also call him by the name of Jesus. Jesus fulfilled every prophesy in the old testament. Including the messianic one.
@SpacerAM2 the bible contradicts itself the first 10 commandment say's do not worship any god but god it says nothing about jesus, then you claim he is the son of god now you claim he is god, Adam is the son of god too but you dont worship him.
The Bible is the word of God. So it doesn't contradict itself. The religions are what contradict with God's own agenda. In Genesis, God said let us create man in our own image and our kindness. God was refering to himself as us in reference to the holy trinity being the father, the son ,and the holy spirit. Which are one and the same God. Yehoshua Hamashiach, Jesus Christ is indeed God. He is the messiah, the savior of the humanrace.
God's identity are the father which is the authority of God, the son which is the flesh and the word of God , and the holy spirit the divine spirit of God. The Holy trinity unify God as one and the same.
The Greeks call him Jesus. Jesus name is actually Yehoshua in Jewish meaning Yahweh is salvation. Yehoshua was asked if he knew Abraham. Yehoshua replied I'll tell you the truth before Abraham was born, I am. God refers to himself as I am meaning Yahweh. Yes, Yehoshua claimed many times that he is God. Which he is. Regardless what you, or anyone thinks. It won't change that fact.
@SpacerAM2 well reading what you just said it does fall short dont it ? the question was does he know abraham then he answered i am ? doesent quite say I am god does it ?
the God of Abraham in the Old Testament stated "I am God" over 200 times, yet oddly Jesus never uttered those three words once in the Gospel,
Jesus was Jewish. I think that this statement should make jewish people very very proud (rightly), because Yeshua change the world. Some people took it, and did bad things with the message, others did not(that is how it always is with messages),
6 "I have installed my King [c] on Zion, my holy hill." 7 I will proclaim the decree of the LORD : He said to me, "You are my Son [d] ; today I have become your Father
11 Serve the LORD with fear and rejoice with trembling. 12 Kiss the Son, lest he be angry and you be destroyed in your way, for his wrath can flare up in a moment. Blessed are all who take refuge in him.
with your statement and analogy then .....Christ cannot be 100% GOD and 100% man (Jew). So this leaves you with the dilemma that Christ was some sort of a third being and all the rest of us could not possibly be made in the image of GOD
Pay attention, the gospel is preached 0:36-41. Again at 1:34-52.
So shall my word be that goeth forth out of my mouth: it shall not return unto me void, but it shall accomplish that which I please, and it shall prosper [in the thing] whereto I sent it.-Isaiah 55:11.
For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.-Rom 1:16.
Two big mistakes. I don't see where JESUS is proclaimed Elohim, rather Messiah or a prophet. If just a prophet, no sins are put away. Christian holidays are not Christian, but pagan, just look at their ORIGINS. Those that follow the teachings of CHRIST are CHRISTIANS regardless of NATIONALITY.
@jfjweb And your point is? So who cares if they both have many different denominations? Judaism is Judaism which believes in One G-D!!! Christianity is Christianity which believes in a Trinity!!! They are two different religions with the same foundation. But they are still Different!!! That's why some believe in Judaism and some believe in Christianity. Once a Jew converts, they become assimilated into the new culture and their offspring eventually aren't Jewish at all by Jewish law!!!!
havenoneatall=The term Christian is normally used to refer to Gentile followers of Yeshua. Jews who follow Yeshua's teachings refer to themselves as Messianic Jews. Yeshua (JESUS) the Jewish Messiah is HaShem the Lord God of Israel manifested in the flesh (see 1 Timothy 3:16).
Christian is just a name that means follower of Messiah-cut to the chase.2000 years ago did a Jewish man called Jesus cause a stir in Israel by claiming to be God and do miracles (Deut 18, Zech 2:10-14, Malachi 1:6-11, 3:1). Did he suffer death on a cross claiming the sin of the world (Isaiah 53, 66:19-20)? Did he change the view of death (Isaiah 25, 28)?Jesus took all sin away (Isaiah 53), - NO TEMPLE/sacrifice SINCE 70AD, 40 years after his death. Listen to scripture not Rabbis (Jer 31:31-34)
Isaiah says the messiah will be named Emmanuel meaning God walking among us.The messiah was born in Bethlehem in the city of David. The messiah descends from Abraham, Issac, and David.The messiah performed miracles of healing as mentioned in the old testament prophecy too. The messiah came for the main purpose to die for our sins on the cross. To pay our debt. Jesus proclaimed many times that he is God. He was asked if he knew Abraham. Jesus said before Abraham was born, I am!
It took a Jewish Christian to finally tell Mr. King that Jesus Christ is the only way to be saved and miss hell. Billy Grhamm denied Christ..as did Olstien.
When the Rabbi said 'they turned my people into lampshades' you should be aware that they conducted DNA testing on the lampshade -- it was made of animal skin -- not human skin. I've seen the video of it on youtube.
Every time you take a step you assume the ground is below your feet. That's because the assumption is reasonable. In the case of the 'human lampshade' presented at the Nuremberg trials, DNA testing wasn't available then -- it is now. The lampshade has been tested -- it was made of sheep skin. You want me to assume it was human skin (= unreasonable after DNA tests). If you want to prove to me it was human skin, show me the evidence.
When I do a google search on your statements, the only sites that come up are those categorized under 'racism and hate'; no legitimate scientific or scholarly sites, just neo-nazi propaganda sites. So YOU provide to me at least 3 reputable sites where your statements can be corroborated.
The burden of proof is those saying that victims were turned into lamp shades -- not the other way around. That's how proof of crime works. You want me to believe it? Prove it.
If I said, "people were turned into i-pods" you'd want some proof.
Neo-nazi sites might also say that "the sky is blue" -- doesn't make it false just because they say that.
More than anything else, you're showing the people here the deceptive tactics you use for trying to gain sympathy.
Still waiting for the 3 reputable sites, and I'm not trying to gain anyone's sympathy - just preparing to expose a lie your pushing. The sites please for all of us to review.
Isn't it amazing how David Brickner is preaching peace, love, and sincere belief in God.
and the other two who are debating with him ... are so full of hatred and anger, trying to mix politics and other things to misconscrue the truth, just look at their eyes and note their tone while speaking.
May God bless those who seek Him with an open mind, heart and soul.
Jesus was a Rabbi. All the first Christians were Jewish. How can you not see that there is NOTHING nonjewish about believing in Jesus? That other rabbi was trying to add politics to the equation but this isnt a political issue.
"There is virtual unanimity across all denominations [of Judaism] that Jews for Jesus are not Jewish." (Kaplan, Dana Evan. The Cambridge Companion to American Judaism, Cambridge University Press, August 15, 2005, pp. 139-140).
That seals the deal for me. You can keep your Yiddishisms, attempts to paint yourselves as "Completed Jews," and bizarre connections with Evangelical antisemites. I'll keep my G-d.
You're wrong and delusional GrouchyJew1939, Jews for Jesus is 100% Jewish and the Messianic Jewish movement and Jewish Evangelism has no connection with anti-semitism at all. Yeshua HaMashiach is HaShem the Lord God of Israel in the flesh (see 1 Timothy 3:16).
So, aren't these guys more like, I dunno, Ex-Jews for Idolatry?
When a Christian becomes a pagan or a Muslim, they're not "Christians for the Goddess" or "Christians for Allah"
No such thing as a Jew for Jesus. Perhaps you're a Jewish Christian, but you're not a Jew. And yes, Atheist Jews are still Jews; there's a difference between not practicing Judaism, and practicing idolatry instead of Judaism.
Isaiah 7:14 and Isaiah 9:6 speaks about the birth of the Messiah. Immanuel from Isaiah 7:14 means "God with us", it's not only a symbolic name, it's a prophetic name. God came to earth from heaven and he incarnated and manifested himself in the flesh in the person of Yeshua the Messiah. Yeshua HaMashiach is Immanuel meaning Yeshua HaMashiach is The Incarnation of Yahweh.
Yeshua HaMashiach was not the first appearance of God in the flesh. It is ridiculous, hypocrisy and insane if you say and think that you can do anything that God can't do. God can do anything according to his will, he can interact with his creation and above all of that God appeared and manifested himself in the flesh many times in the Tanakh (see Genesis 3:8, Genesis 18:1-14, Genesis 32:24-30, Exodus 24:9-11, Joshua 5:13-15, Judges 13:22, Proverbs 30:4).
that's the most ridiculous thing i've ever heard in my life. it's comments like this which perpetuates hatred against jewish people, as it just drips with hypocrisy. how can a so-called holy and righteous people accept those that don't believe in god at all over those that basically have an interpretation of the torah different from theirs? that's not only hypocritical it's anti-christian and frankly, i don't think that should be anymore tolerated then antisemitism. u want respect? give it.
Because, one group of people, "dumbass," deliberately twists the meaning of the Jewish scriptures in such a way that has been historically used to justify persecution and murder of Jewish people, whereas non-belief simply takes no position. A Jew who's become a Christian is a Christian, and not in any way acting Jewish. You don't see "Christians for Muhammad" running around, do you? No, because it's a contradiction that you simply cannot wrap around your miniscule snot-glob of a brain.
how in the fuck is not believing in god "acting jewish"? show me in that stupid book u call the torah where it says an atheist can remain jewish. also, i would like u to define what a jew is and i want u to do it scripturally. i'm not interested in your own personal interpretation of what a jew is. if u can't do this, it's evidence that you're the one with the miniscule snot-glob of a brain.
Yeah, you're so capable of civilized discussion. Go back to grade school, learn a thing or two about having conversations, and get back to me. I'm going to wait for an adult to respond. Your parents need to watch your internet habits.
Hey, it's fine. There are people on YouTube that act so puerile that it's pretty much necessary to say such a thing in nearly every heated conversation. Feel free to use it.
The problem comes from the definition of the word "Jew." It can mean both a person's blood ancestry/nationality, i.e. being born a Jew, and can also refer to a person's religious beliefs, a person who believes and practices Judaism.
If you are referring to a person's nationality, then it just becomes like people referring to themselves as "African-American" or "Polish-American." It refers to where a person is from and to where he stands now.
To be a Christian has nothing to do with your parents. It is not a nationality or ancestry, but a belief. To once again prove my point, I refer you to the words of Jesus:
"In reply Jesus declared, 'I tell you the truth, no one can see the kingdom of God unless he is born again.'" John 3:3
You can be born to Christian parents, but that does not make you a Christian.
Sorry, but I don't write the dictionary. Unlike you, who make things up and passes them for fact, I only go by what the definition already is. A Jew is either a person descended from the nation or tribe of Judah, or one who practices Judaism. A Christian is a person who believes Jesus is the messiah, no matter what their ancestry is.
Unlike me, you are the one who is making things up and passing them for fact. There is no logical basis for making such a ridiculous distinction. You have made up the meaning of Jew to mean one who descended from the tribe or nation of Judah OR practices Judaism. It makes just as much sense to argue that it means, as the Jews claim it means, one who practices Judaism--akin to the definition you have chosen for Christians. There is no logical basis for making such a distinction--except racism
So why isn't Jesus a Jew? Your argument is that he wasn't born of Jewish parents. But he practiced Judaism, was circumcised, went to synagogue, taught there, kept the Passover, and was even called Rabbi by other Jewish priests! By your definition, that makes him Jewish! Either admit that he was Jewish, or admit that your limited definition is not the only definition!
I am sorry, but you have to first address my comment. This is a dictionary definition of Christian--from Webster's:
Webster's Revised Unabridged Dictionary - Christian
1. One who believes, or professes or is assumed to believe, in Jesus Christ, and the truth as taught by Him; especially, one whose inward and outward life is conformed to the doctrines of Christ.
2. One born in a Christian country or of Christian parents, and who has not definitely becomes an adherent of an opposing system.
His being called a rabbi is only found in the New Testament. There is no other significant source which corroborates that. Even if he was born a Jew (forget the fact that he was not concieved by a Jewish woman or naturally born of a Jewish woman): a Christian who renounces his Chritianity is not a Christian. Similarly, a Jew who renounces the Torah's laws is not a Jew. It is canard to argue one and deny the other. For this reason, Jesus was, at best, a Jewish apostate (according to Jews).
By my definition, he was not Jewish because he rencounced the Jewish Torah. His followers ceased from marrying Jewish women only, therby causing their children to be born gentile. A Christian, therefore, cannot claim to be Jewish according to the proper definition or even your ridiculous definition which you refuse to apply to Christianity (or probably any other religion). Brickner's mother is not Jewish and he is not practicing--therefore he is clearly NOT a jew. His dishonsty disgusts me.
There you go proving Godwin's law again--and demonstrating your inability to hold a real argument on the issues. If you want to apply the New Testament of Christians here, you also have to apply the rules of Judaism, too. If you cannot accept that insisting that everyone accept Jesus as their savior is just as much (actually more) about "pure race" than identifying a Jew by being born to a Jewish mother, you are clearly trying to score emotional points. And that means little in face of truth.
I am sorry, but you have to first address my comment. This is a dictionary definition of Christian--from Webster's:
Webster's Revised Unabridged Dictionary - Christian
1. One who believes, or professes or is assumed to believe, in Jesus Christ, and the truth as taught by Him; especially, one whose inward and outward life is conformed to the doctrines of Christ.
2. One born in a Christian country or of Christian parents, and who has not definitely becomes an adherent of an opposing system.
OK, I will concede that Mr. Webster has a different interpretation, at least on #2. But if you are going to cling to this definition, it destroys your earlier argument. Abdul Achmed Muhammed, if he was born in a "Christian country" is a Christian.
Your earlier argument was "4. Can a muslim who never converted be called a Christian?" By this definition, it would seem that yes, he has no choice!
My point is: you say you are agnostic. That's your choice. No one can force you to believe anything. But, if you want to claim that you were born a Christian, and not born-again, then you would have to stand in front of God and use Webster's Dictionary to refute a quote from his son from the bible, John 3:3.
Also, if someone were born to non-Christian parents, but in a Christian country, where would Webster be on that one? It would be a paradox (and good reason not to rely on Webster).
If you don't want to rely on Webster's definition of a Christian, then you should refrain from using Webster's definition of "Jew." I think you are being a bit disingenuous, to be frank, when you claim that one cannot stand in front of God and use Webster's dictionary to refute a quote from the bible, and at the same time resort to a "dictionary definition" of "Jew" in your conversation with me when it runs afoul with their bible.
Sorry, but I don't write the dictionary. Unlike you, who make things up and passes them for fact, I only go by what the definition already is. A Jew is either a person descended from the nation or tribe of Judah, or one who practices Judaism. A Christian is a person who believes Jesus is the messiah, no matter what their ancestry is.
So are we going to stick with the dictionary meaning for both or the religious meaning of both.
OK, forget definitions. You claimed that Jesus was not a Jew because "His father was god, and his mother did not give birth to him, at least in the traditional sense." Is this now ANOTHER definition of being a Jew? What dictionary did you get that one from? And for that matter, what can you possibly mean by not giving birth to him "in the traditional sense?" Are you an agnostic who believes in immaculate conception? Quite contradictory positions!
My definition of "Jew" is based on Jewish law (just like your definition of Christian is based on Christian law, as opposed to a dictionary definition). The meaning of a Jew is one who was born to a Jewish mother. I believe that the immaculate conception renders Jesus's birth as wholly miraculous--that Mary was an incubator of sorts. But seeing as she remained a virgin even after the birth, I would think that she did not "give birth" to Jesus, but rather that he came about miraculously.
I am agnostic, but that does not mean that I do not believe in a supreme being or even some components of christian belief. I simply do not believe in a lot of it for reasons I can get into if you'd like. But I don't think there is any contradiction between believing in the immaculate conception and believing that God does not care for every little thing we do on this earth. More to the point, I think our belief in the immaculate conception undermines the theory that hes Messiah.
My belief that he cannot be the messiah is that the messiah must be a descendant of David. Jesus is the son of God, and one's tribal ancestry is based on his or her patrilinial descent. Jesus, therefore, cannot be a descendant of David. Like I said before scripture and some Christian Dogma directly contradict one another.
Finally, even if I did not theoretically believe in the immaculate conception, you do. And you have to bear the consequences on how such a theory plays out on Jesus's Jewishness. But again, even if he was a Jew, he renounced it. And just like a Christian who renounces his faith is no longer Christian; a Jew who renounces his faith is no longer a Jew. This is the real point that I was trying to make.
Lest I am misunderstood, allow me to clarify that we, as Christians (whether born or born again) have to understand that the notion of Jesus's Messianiship cannot be accepted as a matter of Jewish law. Now, as a Christian, I can agree that this is not problematic, but as a Christian AND an honest human being, I am aghast at David Brickner's disingenuous representation as to his being 100 percent Jewish and 100 percent Christian at the same time. This is the central problem I have with him.
Plus, I really do not like the way he pretends he, like the Orthodox Rabbi, ALSO has problems with the Old Testament. I am sure he has never read it in the original. The fact that he holds himself out as an equally Jewish rabbi grappling with the Old Testament is an affront to me as a Christian, and an insult to the collective intelligence of Larry King's viewers.
I see where you're coming from. But I honestly believe that you're splitting hairs that just don't need to be split. I'm guessing you were raised Catholic. I have to say that I don't believe Mary remained a virgin after Jesus' birth. She and Joseph had several other children in the non-immaculate way. And I believe Jesus was born in the normal way. He was Son of God AND Son of Man. He got his humanity from his mother. And she was Jewish. You can't renounce your mother.
I was raised Catholic; my understanding of the immaculate conception has not changed. I cannot accept that he was the son of God AND the son of Man. He is one or the other. In a sense we are all son of man and God. I cannot accept that Jesus was not different from me or you.
And finally, strictly by Jewish law, Joseph was Jesus' father, not God. Ask Schmully. He's a "good, lawful Jew." So by the Jewish legalistic interpretation, Jesus IS descended from David. It's the paradox of grace that Y'shua brings to us. If we look strictly at law, Jesus fulfills it perfectly. And when we see this, God's grace frees us from the condemnation and guilt that result from the law. Do I understand it? No. Do I accept it without understanding it? YES!!! That's why it's called faith.
I think it is very clear that Jesus does not fulfill all the requirements of being Messiah. We are taught to believe he will come again to fulfill them. Jews don't believe in that for reasons that I believe are equally if not more valid if one reads the scriptures, as I have, in the original hebrew. If we maintain that Jesus was born by God, he cannot be the son of Joseph. According to Jews, Jesus did not come close to fulfilling a third of the requirements, and they dispute that he came . .
from David. The Jews obviously do not believe that we are condemned to guilt as a result of the law. I would agree with them on this, as I believe it demands self responsibility on our part, and not the reliance of another to atone for us (a major problem I had with my Catholic upbringing!). I think that there is a difference between faith and the general acceptance of doctrine without understanding it. More to the point, I think its obvious that we cannot hold others to have the same faith.
Either way, it is very clear from this dialogue that one cannot be one hundred percent Jewish and one hundred percent Christian unless we dramatically change the meaning of standard from which we define one or the other. Certainly, David's comments suggest he means the "Christian" and "Jewish" in the same sense. That aside, David is wrong for trying to pass of his beliefs as Jewish. Deceit is a sin. A bad one, in fact. And it is unChristian of him to continue his mendacious crusade.
I really think you should take this discussion to our forums found on our website. That being said, and having read your posts, I also think you are overlooking 3,000 years of history. It's great that you have read the scriputures in the original languages. I would encourage you to look into how Judaism the religion has changed in the past 3,000 years. Judaism of today is vastly different than that of the past. If it has changed so much, how can anyone say I am a "true Jew"? What do you think?
I would disagree with you about this. I think Judaism has not experienced significant changes in the past 3,000 years. I would encourage you to provide me some examples so that I may be able to educate you about this. For this reason, the balance of your comment and the question that flows from it is completely moot. A true Jew is a Jew as a matter of Jewish law just like a true Christian is a Christian as a matter of Christian law. You are not a Jew. David Brickener is not a Jew.
Watch our video about the theology of Judaism. Here are a few topics.
1. Where is the temple and sacrificial system today?
2. In the new testament Jesus criticizes the Pharisees and Sadducees for their misunderstanding and mis-use of the law and prophets. Do I need to list them?
3. You can do a search on our site for details on what happened at Yavneh in 70 AD.
4. Do you know how many different denominations of Judaism are there today? 1?, 3?, 500? Which is correct?
They do not agree. I have studied this subject and spoke about this subject with scholars. I have yet to find one genuine scholar (outside of Jews for Jesus) who agrees with your completely preposterous theories concerning Judaism.
1. If you would have actually researched the subject AT ALL, you would know that Jewish belief maintains that temple and the sacrificial system will be restored when the Messiah comes. To ask this question is exceedingly disingenuous, however, as you, as a Christian, do not believe in any of the rituals proscribed in the Old Testament, anyway.
2. The Pharisees and Sadducees were criticized by the Jewish people since they crept up. What is the relevance of Jesus doing the same?
I am a lot more familiar with the facts concerning Yavneh in 70 AD than you are. To be frank, I think your site does you insitution an enormous disservice as it presents an extraordinary level of ignorance on this subject.
4. Yes. There is only one Judaism. Reform and Conservative Jews do not practice it.
I am glad you have your mind made up on these issues. Unfortunately there is an Orthodox reference called the Mishna which has a lengthy dialogue on many issues that Orthodox Jews do not agree on. Which one is representative of the One Judasim? Since your mind is made up and you are just interested in slandering and insults, we can end this conversation.
Instead of insisting on asking--you ought to answer, too. Jesus urges that man must have faith, not to be a fool. Admonishing JUSTIFIED rebuke for writing about things you know nothing about is sinful. Finding obstinance in others while refusing to acknowledge the limitations of your arguments is vain. I urge that you open your heart and mind to others who are willing to actually answer your questions, to act in good faith, and, above all, to be honest and humble before God.
that the Talmud contains a large assortment of pointless naïvetés, taboos, superstitions, demonic lore, myths," - The Book of Jewish Knowledge, by Nathan Ausubel.
Jews have always had disagreements on various things. That's why the sephardim have the saying dos judios, tres opiniones. (two jews, three opinions) The oral torah is full of differing opinions..But there is one one thing universal to Jews: that there is only one G-d
and we are waiting for the messiah and the day of the Lord
You have a very analytical mind, and I respect that. There are many "loose ends" that don't seem to jibe in the scriptures. But the personal evidence I have seen to prove the Lordship of Jesus is overwhelming.
Here's a point you may or may not know. Jewish believers rarely call themselves "Christian." The term "Christ-killer" was a popular rallying cry in Nazi-Germany. Jewish believers prefer to call themselves Messianic Jews, which negates the whole Christian/non-Christian argument anyway.
NaderforPres, this is a really interesting discussion. What I would like to ask is what do you believe the purpose of the Jewish people is? Why are they set apart?
Yes,the guys is right read a Holy Bible & understand it b4 to interact.Jesus just want us to live happy,peace and love to one another.Praise the Lord!
angelinewinter84 1 week ago
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If you are going to accept Jesus then call yourself a christian!
KingOystar 2 months ago
I just want all the jews to know that Christians love them,,,we have never hated jews,,,never,,,we dont blame u for Jesus death,,,I had never heard that in my life til the passion movie came out and I was hurt that Jews thought we hated them,,,we love our Jewish brothers,,and we dont want to convert you to christianity ,,,it would be nice if we were all just jews who believe in Jesus ,,,the catholics ruined it,,,not I want to stress that christians love the jews
candiceevans1 5 months ago
PART 2 TO THE JEWS,,,Never believe that christians hate you,,,we do not,,,you were and are GODs chosen people the covenent will never be broken,,,GOD will soon cause tribulation but he will not destroy you like he will the rest of the nations,,,messiah is coming very soon,,,dont reject Jesus ,,,he is your messiah,,,youve been lied to bc the rabbis were afraid Judaism wld be destroyed if Jews believed in Jesus christianity is not a different religion it belongs to YOU! RECLAIM IT WE LOVE YOU!!!!!
candiceevans1 5 months ago
I want to tell all the jews something HITLER was not a christian,,,he was an occultist a theosophist fr a catholic backround,,,catholics ARE NOT considered christians they killed as many christians as they did jews,,,we broke away fr the catholics bc theyre murderers we consider them anti-christ read the london confession of faith,,,We love our jewish brothers we believe GOD preserved his word w you his feast days, his reckoning of time etc someday we shall be one when messiah comes WE LOVE YOU
candiceevans1 5 months ago
There is so much confusion in the world about modern day Messianic Jews. The followers of Yeshua attended synagogue and were considered a Jewish sect until the end of the Fourth Century, when the Roman church forced them to renounce Judaism. Today, Messianic Jews have no pressure to hide their acceptance of Messiah or their Jewish backgrounds. Amazing how things have changed in 2,000 years.
meypole 6 months ago
I'm a practicing Catholic and I support Jews for Jesus. If any Jew wants follow Jesus, why do they have to get hassled by Rabbi Heir and others? You can be 100% Jewish and 100% Christian. God bless Jews for Jesus, God bless Israel. Down with intolerance, anitsemitism and racism. Peace Shalom!
hotathlete2 6 months ago 2
@hotathlete2 Well put!!
meypole 6 months ago
Evil has a face...... Rabbi Schmuley.
He is either high on crack in that interview or he can't sit still because Satan is balls-deep in his ass.
syrantherapper 9 months ago
David Brickner is a great man. It's nice to see God's people accept God's Son, Jesus Christ, as their savior. He died first for the Jew, then for the Gentile. I support Jews for Jesus 100%! :)
TheKimmyJade19 10 months ago 2
Messiah clearly has not come! We have no temple, world peace, and universal knowlege of G-d! if anything we Jews have had more problems given to us by Xtianity!
KingOystar 10 months ago
@KingOystar=You think you're always right and correct when you say that the Messiah clearly has not come? You're sincerely dead wrong and you're blind like Rabbi Schmuley Boteach and Rabbi Marvin Hier. Genesis 49:10, Numbers 24:17, Jeremiah 23:5-6, Isaiah 7:14, Isaiah 9:6, Zechariah 9:9, Isaiah 53, Psalm 22, and Daniel 9:24-27 are all messianic prophecies. The problem is you have all ignored and rejected Daniel's prophecy (see Daniel 9:24-27) and you already missed the Messiah.
knightsofstjoan2004 8 months ago
@knightsofstjoan2004 well what I want to know is why would you say the messiah has come when NOTHING promised in the messianic age has happened?
KingOystar 8 months ago
@KingOystar=Yeshua of Nazareth fulfilled not just 48 messianic prophecies, but more that 324 individual prophecies that the Hebrew prophets wrote concerning the Messiah. Why? What are the things that you expect to be promised in the Messianic Age? World peace, the Third Jewish Temple built, and universal knowledge of God, right?
knightsofstjoan2004 8 months ago
that's pretty much what you said before, but still didn't bring any evidence. it's the Christian belief, which they're entitled to. don't try pushing it on Jews without having good proof to your claims
brillythekid 11 months ago
But the Jesus name is a lie! So how can you have a covenant with a lie? Is it a sin to change the name of Messiah?
Christians bear false witness with a lie invented by Prophets of the God of this world.
Your sister is righteous before you Christendom, even though she has an Adonai lie in her nest, as with sister Islam, an Allah.
Yahuah sees all.
HallEluYah.
whereismygracejesus 11 months ago
Couldnt agree more. But its not the orthodox jews who are looking to convince other people of anything. We are very secure with our religion, and we have no interest in convincing christians to give up their beliefs. It's the christian missionaries (especially jewsforjesus) who are in the business of convincing (or deceiving?) other people.
rafiawad 1 year ago
@rafiawad I would agree with you, unless Jesus is the who he said he is (the Jewish Messiah) and the only way to have reconciliation God. If he's not, then you can go on with being content with orthodox Judaism, but if he is, and only He can truly reveal it to you, you owe it to yourself to find out.
JewsForJesus 1 year ago
@JewsForJesus there were many "Jewish Messiahs" alsong the way. Jesus wasn't the first and wasn't the last to make a lot of claims for and against Judaism and about himself. There's nothing special about him.
Judaism has no need for him. There's no good evidence he was a true Messiah (or God...).
Most people in the world seem to need a "human based" God. They can't grasp anything beyond it. Christianity answers that for people.
brillythekid 11 months ago
@brillythekid define good evidence? Prophecy seems compelling enough to me.
JewsForJesus 11 months ago
@JewsForJesus there were many prophets, or people, if you will, who said many things. prophecy, even if it turns out to be true, does not necessarily make one a true prophet, and does not give one the right to go against the Torah (according to the Torah, which Christians claim Jesus lived by). and a person proclaiming about himself that he's God does just that. shows a great big ego maybe.
prophecy alone is not good enough.
brillythekid 11 months ago
@brillythekid Who has the power to forgive sin, only God. The prophets knew that God would send his own to suffer and die for the sins of humanity. Jesus was much more than a prophet.
JewsForJesus 11 months ago
The fact that jesus was born jewish and his first followers were born jewish proves nothing about the compatability between christianity and judaism. Christians must stop using that argument. I have jewish friends who eat pork and dont believe in god. Jews do all sorts of stupid things, but none of that changes what the religion of judaism is - Its the Torah and that's it!
Sorry, but the new testament has no place within judaism!
rafiawad 1 year ago
@rafiawad So you don't believe in the the whole Tanach (includes the Torah and Prophets)? You just believe in the first five books? Did you know that Judaism has as many denominations as Christianity does, and a very varied belief and interpretation of scripture? Which do you think is holds truth?
jfjweb 1 year ago 3
@jfjweb No, u misunderstood me. Torah = The hebrew Tanach (including the prophets and writings) + the oral law. There might be denominations of jews who believe otherwise, but I believe that only orthodox streams of judaism have any validity from a religious standpoint, since only they have the goal of maintaining the "mesorah" - ie, the original teachings passed from g-d to moses to joshua etc. etc. to the leaders of the great assembly, to the rabbis. All other streams are reformist.
rafiawad 1 year ago
@rafiawad Orthodox are as much reformists, as any other sect of Judaism. Do you put weight on "Orthodox" because they are the most observant of "the Law"? Judaism's been reformed since the destruction of the second temple. The sacrifice has been reformed, the laws have been reformed (eve those of the Orthodox), the interpretation of the Tanach has been reformed and continues to be done so in the Mishnah and the Talmud.
How can you personally know what is true and correct interpretation?
JewsForJesus 1 year ago
@JewsForJesus The diff between orthodox (rabbinic) judaism and other sects is that [ideally] orthodox try their best to identify and adhere to the true interpretation of the original laws given by god to moses (written & oral). This is done in a systematic and academic way - the talmudic system. Evolution in orthodox practice typically results from stringencies or differences in customs, where there is uncertainty about the true application of certain laws.
rafiawad 1 year ago
@rafiawad -the above is very well spoken. What scriptural basis can you find for replacing blood sacrifice that was always understood as a requirement for forgiveness of sin. Also the scriptures point to the Messiah of Israel who would fulfill very specific requirements, and yet these are ignored today even by the "Orthodox". All I am saying is, don't just assume that because the people have chosen a very specific line of interpretation, that it is biblically accurate. Study them for yourself.
JewsForJesus 1 year ago
@JewsForJesus I do try to study as much as I can, and so far, given my yeshiva and post-yeshiva study, i find nothing convincing in the christian position. As for the issues of abolishment of animal sacrifice in the absence of a jewish temple, and the criteria of the jewish messiah, I will not get into it here because the explanations are easily available on the websites of jewsforjudaism or outreachjudaism.
rafiawad 1 year ago
@rafiawad You don't need to convince me. That is between you and God, not between you and jewsforjudaism or jewsforjesus.
JewsForJesus 1 year ago
@JewsForJesus Other denominations of jews, on the other hand, divest themselves of some or all laws. These reformations certainly have no torah basis - they are done in the name of modernity. Christians as well - they had a hard time converting ppl given all the difficult laws of the torah so they invented some bogus reason to stop keeping them.
rafiawad 1 year ago
@rafiawad Orthodox are as much reformists, as any other sect of Judaism. Do you put weight on "Orthodox" because they are the most observant of "the Law"? Judaism's been reformed since the destruction of the second temple. The sacrifice has been reformed, the laws have been reformed (eve those of the Orthodox), the interpretation of the Tanach has been reformed and continues to be done so in the Mishnah and the Talmud.
How can you personally know what is true and correct interpretation?
JewsForJesus 1 year ago
Comment removed
mike8984 10 months ago
@jfjweb There is only Jewish Christians until there are no Jews left to convert. After that, there are only Christians and that's what you want!!!!! That's your bottom line! Which is fine though because your faith obligates you to preach your gospel. But STOP trying to trick unknowing Jews about converting to Christianity.
mike8984 10 months ago
@mike8984 I think you missed the point and all the other Web sites. My close friend (a Jewish rabbi) says he did not observe Jewish holidays or appreciate his Jewish heritage until he accepted Yeshua and became a rabbi.
meypole 6 months ago
@jfjweb Do you not have the balls to do it the honest way?!! Why is it so hard honest and upfront? You are a Christian organization! Why do you hide your Christian symbols and names when approaching Jews? Does Jesus want you to preach with cunning, lying, or trickery behavior? Or would Jesus want you to preach his Gospel with complete honesty and understanding?
mike8984 10 months ago
@jfjweb If you believe his Gospel so strongly, why resort to such Tactics? Shouldn't your gospel not need such extreme efforts, if your only preaching the Truth??? Why not advertise your Faith honestly? Why not argue your ideas in a friendly dialogue? Also, the best way to convince others, is by showing them by your example. Is that not enough for preaching for the Gospel of Jesus?!! What would Jesus do? How would he preach?
mike8984 10 months ago
@rafiawad The New Testament is all about the completion of Judaism through Messiah.
sorcharosie 6 months ago
@sorcharosie I know that's what christians say and believe. But us jews (knowledgable jews - not j4j) have no reason to believe it, simply because jesus never fulfilled the criteria of the jewish messiah as per the old testament (tanach). No amount of ambiguous "proof-texts" can change the fact that we do not have world peace nor a rebuilt temple in jerusalem. If Jesus would have brought about those things like the tanach says the messiah is supposed to, then maybe id believe in him.
rafiawad 6 months ago
@rafiawad Danial 9 talks about The Messiah coming before the destruction of the second Temple. If Jesus wasn't the Messiah then who who was it? Because they had to come during/ around the time Jesus was on the earth. And as for your issue with World peace. Your mindset about peace needs to change. Let me ask you something, where does scripture say that the Messiah would bring "world peace"? And if he is supposed to bring it shouldn't peace start in the heart? Since you cant force it on anyone?
sorcharosie 6 months ago
@sorcharosie Ur arguments rely on assumptions based on christian re-interpretations/mistranslations of hebrew biblical passages. So my answer is: Daniel 9, in hebrew, doesnt say what u say it does. In the hebrew bible, the word "mashiach", meaning "anointed" is often used to refer to 1)kings, and 2)high-priests. In context, its clear that Daniel 9 is not referring to "the Messiah" but 2 kings: 1) Cyrus, and 2) Alexander Yannai. This has always been the understanding of the txt according 2 jews.
rafiawad 6 months ago
@sorcharosie And 2ndly, the tanach in Isaiah 2, referring to messianic times: "Nation will not lift up sword against nation, and never again will they learn war". The passage seems pretty clear to me. Peace = no war. It doesnt say anything about "peace starting in the heart". I dont care if peace starts in the heart or in my left pinky-toe. According to the JEWISH bible, peace = no more war. Since we still have war, we're not in messianic times.
rafiawad 6 months ago
@sorcharosie And to take that a step further, i think it's YOUR mindset about peace that has to change. Its this nonsensical concept of "peace-of-heart" (which really means nothing) that allowed christians to murder non-christians for centuries. Some peace you guys believe in. I prefer to my mindset of peace. It results in alot fewer dead people.
rafiawad 6 months ago
@rafiawad What makes you think that everyone who does something in Jesus' name is Christian? People use excuses all the time to justify what they are doing and in the case of many evil things such as the Crusades or Holocaust or the Inquisition. Just because they used the name of Jesus doesnt mean that those acts were something Jesus stood for. And how dare you, how dare you group me in with the same people who murderded my family members in the Holocaust, just because we believe in Jesus....
sorcharosie 6 months ago
@rafiawad Can you please enlighten me on how you propose world peace will come about if no one has inner peace first? How do you propose the Messiah is going to bring World Peace?
sorcharosie 6 months ago
@sorcharosie Classic - u claim that belief in jesus is the fast-track to salvation and inner peace, but then u say that those who murdered in the name christianity were not actually christians. But I dont understand. They accepted jesus didnt they? So what happened to the "inner-peace"? I am compelled to arrive at 2 possible conclusions: 1) Accepting jesus does not necessarily lead to "inner-peace", or 2) Having "inner-peace" and being a murderous animal are not mutually exclusive.
rafiawad 6 months ago
@sorcharosie U ask how world peace will come without inner-peace first. Before I respond to that question, can you please tell me what you mean by "inner-peace" or peace-in-the-heart? To me, "inner-peace" just sounds like an ambiguous nice-sounding phrase that actually means nothing. So id love for you to clarify it for me. Message me personally if u'd like, its easier. If i dont respond, it's b/c I've already started shabbos (which i assume u keep too b/c ure "jewish").
rafiawad 6 months ago
@sorcharosie doesnt make us evil. Jesus taught to love other people. And people like Hitler and Stalin used his name to justify the evil that they were doing. You do not have the right to group followers of Christ under the same blanket. And Shame on you for judging people you dont even know, and judging a faith which you have done no investigation of your own into. Have you even read all of Tenak? Have you Read all of the New Testament Scriptures?
sorcharosie 6 months ago
larry king is pretty good and they replaced him with some dimwit in pierce something
ParthianImmortal 1 year ago
Brickner believes that G-d is perfect. He also believes that G-d revealed Himself on Mt. Sinai and gave the Jewish People the "old" Bible. If G-d is perfect, He wouldn't say time and time and time again in the "old" Bible that he is not corporeal (flesh and blood)-- and then say, "Oops. I'm flesh & blood."
G-d doesn't make mistakes. Don't give me that stuff about G-d finally realizing that Jews just couldn't make it His way. Jesus is for Christians; Judaism is for Jews.
chanarochel 1 year ago 2
seems perfect jesus dies we can do w/e the fuck we want our sins are absolved LOL
MARTINSTERN 1 year ago
@MARTINSTERN Wrong Rom 6:1-2 What shall we say, then? Shall we go on sinning so that grace may increase? By no means! We died to sin; how can we live in it any longer?
You do not know Jesus Mr Stern or the word of God
jfjweb 1 year ago 4
@jfjweb ik the word of a different god, where a person is responsible for his actions ;)
MARTINSTERN 1 year ago
@jfjweb stop sinning
energyinducer00 2 months ago
seems too easy that jesus gets everyones sins absolved just like them...
MARTINSTERN 1 year ago
do not believe me, believe the miracles, that you may know and understand that the Father is in me, and I in the Father. Again they tried to seize Him. but He eascaped their grasp.
dlaumbach1 1 year ago
replied the Jews, "but for blasphemy, because you, a mere man, claim to be God."
Jesus answered them, "Is it not written in your Law. 'I have said you are gods'? If he called them 'gods,' to whom the word of God came- and the Scriptures cannot be broken-what about the one whom the Father set apart as his very own and sent onto the world? Why then do you accuse me of blasphemy because I said, 'I am God's Son? Do not believe me unless I do what mt Father does. But if I do it, even though you
dlaumbach1 1 year ago
My sheep listen to my voice ; I know them, and they follow me. I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one can snatch them out of my hand. My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all; no one can snatch them out of my Father's hand. I and the Father are one.
Again the Jews picked up a stones to stone Him, but Jesus said to them, "I have shown many great miracles from the Father. For which of these do you stone me?"
"We are not stoning you for any of these,"
dlaumbach1 1 year ago
This is not the 1st time the some jews choose to not believe in Jesus. John 10 Then cam the Feast of Dedication at Jerusalem. It was winter, and Jesus was was in the temple area walking in Solomon's Colonnade. The jews gather around Him , saying, "How long will you keep in suspense? If you are the Christ tell us plainly."
Jesus answered, "I did tell you, but you do not believe. The miracles I do in my Father's name speak for me, but you do not believe because you are not my sheep.
dlaumbach1 1 year ago
The argument "jesus himself was jewish therefore christianity is jewish" is absurd. By that logic we should also say "Marxism is jewish", Just because something is founded by a jewish person does not automatically make that thing compatible with judaism (the religion).
A belief system is jewish if it is in line with the fundemental laws/tenets of the jewish Torah. And it takes a very basic understanding of judaism to know that christianity is utterly incompatible with the jewish Torah.
rafiawad 1 year ago
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Happy Hanukkah Candles, got a light? :-)
John 8:12
Then spake Jesus again unto them, saying,
I am the light of the world:
he that followeth me shall not walk in darkness,
but shall have the light of life.
hemet92544 1 year ago
Boteach was so rude! I like that Heir atleast allowed people to finish what they wanted to say!.
KingOystar 1 year ago
Very interesting debate. I do not think this will stop till Messiah comes.
KingOystar 1 year ago
nobody converts to Judaism, to become an Israeli citizen you have to take a blood test to decide if your blood is Jewish or not, how they come to that decison I dont know but it's true,
everybody converts to Christianity and Islam it's more common
nobody can prove god exist's and nobody can prove god dont exist
kocktoe 1 year ago
@kocktoe
First God doesn't like religions nor does he accepts any of them. Religions are Satan's idea to confuse people. Since all religions contradict in one way or another. Religions are corrupt. The Bible is God's message to the world. God wants us to be aware of who he is. God is the messiah Yehoshua which people also call him by the name of Jesus. Jesus fulfilled every prophesy in the old testament. Including the messianic one.
SpacerAM2 1 year ago
@SpacerAM2 the bible contradicts itself the first 10 commandment say's do not worship any god but god it says nothing about jesus, then you claim he is the son of god now you claim he is god, Adam is the son of god too but you dont worship him.
kocktoe 1 year ago
@kocktoe
The Bible is the word of God. So it doesn't contradict itself. The religions are what contradict with God's own agenda. In Genesis, God said let us create man in our own image and our kindness. God was refering to himself as us in reference to the holy trinity being the father, the son ,and the holy spirit. Which are one and the same God. Yehoshua Hamashiach, Jesus Christ is indeed God. He is the messiah, the savior of the humanrace.
SpacerAM2 1 year ago
@SpacerAM2 so why does the first comandment just say god and not the son, father and the holy spirit ?
kocktoe 1 year ago
@kocktoe
God's identity are the father which is the authority of God, the son which is the flesh and the word of God , and the holy spirit the divine spirit of God. The Holy trinity unify God as one and the same.
SpacerAM2 1 year ago
@SpacerAM2 that sounds more like three gods
kocktoe 1 year ago
@kocktoe
Jesus just refers to himself that way. It's his identity. Yehoshua,Jesus is the one and only God there is.
SpacerAM2 1 year ago
@SpacerAM2 jesus never refers to himself as god,
kocktoe 1 year ago
@kocktoe
The Greeks call him Jesus. Jesus name is actually Yehoshua in Jewish meaning Yahweh is salvation. Yehoshua was asked if he knew Abraham. Yehoshua replied I'll tell you the truth before Abraham was born, I am. God refers to himself as I am meaning Yahweh. Yes, Yehoshua claimed many times that he is God. Which he is. Regardless what you, or anyone thinks. It won't change that fact.
SpacerAM2 1 year ago
@SpacerAM2 well reading what you just said it does fall short dont it ? the question was does he know abraham then he answered i am ? doesent quite say I am god does it ?
the God of Abraham in the Old Testament stated "I am God" over 200 times, yet oddly Jesus never uttered those three words once in the Gospel,
kocktoe 1 year ago
No one is forcing anyone to convert! People can say, no thanks.
idolfan9495 1 year ago
Jesus was Jewish. I think that this statement should make jewish people very very proud (rightly), because Yeshua change the world. Some people took it, and did bad things with the message, others did not(that is how it always is with messages),
La2venida 1 year ago 2
AMAN DAVID
dewerbylhserf 1 year ago
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PSALM 2 of DAVID also read Psalm 110
6 "I have installed my King [c] on Zion, my holy hill." 7 I will proclaim the decree of the LORD : He said to me, "You are my Son [d] ; today I have become your Father
11 Serve the LORD with fear and rejoice with trembling. 12 Kiss the Son, lest he be angry and you be destroyed in your way, for his wrath can flare up in a moment. Blessed are all who take refuge in him.
JesusgavemeHolySpiri 1 year ago
You can't be 100% Jewish and 100% Christian. That is like saying you are 100% Hindu and 100% Roman Catholic.
Lagolop 1 year ago 3
@Lagolop
with your statement and analogy then .....Christ cannot be 100% GOD and 100% man (Jew). So this leaves you with the dilemma that Christ was some sort of a third being and all the rest of us could not possibly be made in the image of GOD
havenoneatall 1 year ago
David read Joshua 1:9. Be courage....The Lord God of our fathers is w/you. Yeshua is the way. Shalom from Pma.
lakeoffire77 1 year ago
Pay attention, the gospel is preached 0:36-41. Again at 1:34-52.
So shall my word be that goeth forth out of my mouth: it shall not return unto me void, but it shall accomplish that which I please, and it shall prosper [in the thing] whereto I sent it.-Isaiah 55:11.
For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.-Rom 1:16.
Glory Hallelujah!! Praise Jesus!!
sldeyo 1 year ago
The world is in turmoil because of zionists
cdimmm 2 years ago
Hang the holacaust around his neck. Larry you have gained my respect.
mcqueen6666 2 years ago 2
if you look closly at 3:07 Rabbi Heir is smerking. he is like "here comes this speech again"
KingOystar 2 years ago
Two big mistakes. I don't see where JESUS is proclaimed Elohim, rather Messiah or a prophet. If just a prophet, no sins are put away. Christian holidays are not Christian, but pagan, just look at their ORIGINS. Those that follow the teachings of CHRIST are CHRISTIANS regardless of NATIONALITY.
havenoneatall 2 years ago
BTW: This is only an excerpt from a one hour show. We do believe that Jesus is God and Messiah and savior of the world.
jfjweb 2 years ago 4
@jfjweb And your point is? So who cares if they both have many different denominations? Judaism is Judaism which believes in One G-D!!! Christianity is Christianity which believes in a Trinity!!! They are two different religions with the same foundation. But they are still Different!!! That's why some believe in Judaism and some believe in Christianity. Once a Jew converts, they become assimilated into the new culture and their offspring eventually aren't Jewish at all by Jewish law!!!!
mike8984 10 months ago
havenoneatall=The term Christian is normally used to refer to Gentile followers of Yeshua. Jews who follow Yeshua's teachings refer to themselves as Messianic Jews. Yeshua (JESUS) the Jewish Messiah is HaShem the Lord God of Israel manifested in the flesh (see 1 Timothy 3:16).
knightsofstjoan2004 2 years ago
Christian is just a name that means follower of Messiah-cut to the chase.2000 years ago did a Jewish man called Jesus cause a stir in Israel by claiming to be God and do miracles (Deut 18, Zech 2:10-14, Malachi 1:6-11, 3:1). Did he suffer death on a cross claiming the sin of the world (Isaiah 53, 66:19-20)? Did he change the view of death (Isaiah 25, 28)?Jesus took all sin away (Isaiah 53), - NO TEMPLE/sacrifice SINCE 70AD, 40 years after his death. Listen to scripture not Rabbis (Jer 31:31-34)
MrAliyak 1 year ago
@havenoneatall
Isaiah says the messiah will be named Emmanuel meaning God walking among us.The messiah was born in Bethlehem in the city of David. The messiah descends from Abraham, Issac, and David.The messiah performed miracles of healing as mentioned in the old testament prophecy too. The messiah came for the main purpose to die for our sins on the cross. To pay our debt. Jesus proclaimed many times that he is God. He was asked if he knew Abraham. Jesus said before Abraham was born, I am!
SpacerAM2 1 year ago
It took a Jewish Christian to finally tell Mr. King that Jesus Christ is the only way to be saved and miss hell. Billy Grhamm denied Christ..as did Olstien.
frank1600 2 years ago
that rabbi is an angry angry stubborn man.God will knock but YOU
have to answer
Niia090 2 years ago 2
When the Rabbi said 'they turned my people into lampshades' you should be aware that they conducted DNA testing on the lampshade -- it was made of animal skin -- not human skin. I've seen the video of it on youtube.
bigsoundz 2 years ago
bigsoundz - and you assume that everything you see on YouTube is accurate? Think again. There is as much false propaganda here as anywhere.
satan1st666 2 years ago
@satan1st666
Every time you take a step you assume the ground is below your feet. That's because the assumption is reasonable. In the case of the 'human lampshade' presented at the Nuremberg trials, DNA testing wasn't available then -- it is now. The lampshade has been tested -- it was made of sheep skin. You want me to assume it was human skin (= unreasonable after DNA tests). If you want to prove to me it was human skin, show me the evidence.
bigsoundz 2 years ago
When I do a google search on your statements, the only sites that come up are those categorized under 'racism and hate'; no legitimate scientific or scholarly sites, just neo-nazi propaganda sites. So YOU provide to me at least 3 reputable sites where your statements can be corroborated.
satan1st666 2 years ago
@satan1st666
The burden of proof is those saying that victims were turned into lamp shades -- not the other way around. That's how proof of crime works. You want me to believe it? Prove it.
If I said, "people were turned into i-pods" you'd want some proof.
Neo-nazi sites might also say that "the sky is blue" -- doesn't make it false just because they say that.
More than anything else, you're showing the people here the deceptive tactics you use for trying to gain sympathy.
bigsoundz 2 years ago
Still waiting for the 3 reputable sites, and I'm not trying to gain anyone's sympathy - just preparing to expose a lie your pushing. The sites please for all of us to review.
satan1st666 2 years ago
I was very pleased with Larry King's fairness , he did an excellent Job.
DangeloM27 2 years ago 10
Yay cool
MC89Productions 2 years ago
Bless you David! Maintain your faith in Yeshua Ha Mashiach!
mmitchell80 2 years ago 2
Isn't it amazing how David Brickner is preaching peace, love, and sincere belief in God.
and the other two who are debating with him ... are so full of hatred and anger, trying to mix politics and other things to misconscrue the truth, just look at their eyes and note their tone while speaking.
May God bless those who seek Him with an open mind, heart and soul.
carlosmdiaz1 3 years ago 2
you can even see the look on his face is so peacefull , May G_d bles him and help him
FORSAKENLOVE32 3 years ago
Jesus was a Rabbi. All the first Christians were Jewish. How can you not see that there is NOTHING nonjewish about believing in Jesus? That other rabbi was trying to add politics to the equation but this isnt a political issue.
Conail23 3 years ago 10
@Conail23 lets go believing in every Rabbi as God! of course it's non Jewish
brillythekid 1 year ago
"There is virtual unanimity across all denominations [of Judaism] that Jews for Jesus are not Jewish." (Kaplan, Dana Evan. The Cambridge Companion to American Judaism, Cambridge University Press, August 15, 2005, pp. 139-140).
That seals the deal for me. You can keep your Yiddishisms, attempts to paint yourselves as "Completed Jews," and bizarre connections with Evangelical antisemites. I'll keep my G-d.
GrouchyJew1939 3 years ago
You're wrong and delusional GrouchyJew1939, Jews for Jesus is 100% Jewish and the Messianic Jewish movement and Jewish Evangelism has no connection with anti-semitism at all. Yeshua HaMashiach is HaShem the Lord God of Israel in the flesh (see 1 Timothy 3:16).
knightsofstjoan2004 2 years ago
we should pray for hier and boteach
they dont realize Yeshua is the Messiah
mentioned in ISAIAH 53
and Micha chapter 5
billiefan2000 3 years ago 4
"God is not a man"
So, aren't these guys more like, I dunno, Ex-Jews for Idolatry?
When a Christian becomes a pagan or a Muslim, they're not "Christians for the Goddess" or "Christians for Allah"
No such thing as a Jew for Jesus. Perhaps you're a Jewish Christian, but you're not a Jew. And yes, Atheist Jews are still Jews; there's a difference between not practicing Judaism, and practicing idolatry instead of Judaism.
49thStreetBarricade 3 years ago
Isaiah 7:14 and Isaiah 9:6 speaks about the birth of the Messiah. Immanuel from Isaiah 7:14 means "God with us", it's not only a symbolic name, it's a prophetic name. God came to earth from heaven and he incarnated and manifested himself in the flesh in the person of Yeshua the Messiah. Yeshua HaMashiach is Immanuel meaning Yeshua HaMashiach is The Incarnation of Yahweh.
knightsofstjoan2004 3 years ago
Yeshua HaMashiach was not the first appearance of God in the flesh. It is ridiculous, hypocrisy and insane if you say and think that you can do anything that God can't do. God can do anything according to his will, he can interact with his creation and above all of that God appeared and manifested himself in the flesh many times in the Tanakh (see Genesis 3:8, Genesis 18:1-14, Genesis 32:24-30, Exodus 24:9-11, Joshua 5:13-15, Judges 13:22, Proverbs 30:4).
knightsofstjoan2004 3 years ago
A Jew is a Jew by birth 49thStreetBarricade, not by faith or by one's religious beliefs.
knightsofstjoan2004 3 years ago
that's the most ridiculous thing i've ever heard in my life. it's comments like this which perpetuates hatred against jewish people, as it just drips with hypocrisy. how can a so-called holy and righteous people accept those that don't believe in god at all over those that basically have an interpretation of the torah different from theirs? that's not only hypocritical it's anti-christian and frankly, i don't think that should be anymore tolerated then antisemitism. u want respect? give it.
FuckUtube2008 3 years ago
Because, one group of people, "dumbass," deliberately twists the meaning of the Jewish scriptures in such a way that has been historically used to justify persecution and murder of Jewish people, whereas non-belief simply takes no position. A Jew who's become a Christian is a Christian, and not in any way acting Jewish. You don't see "Christians for Muhammad" running around, do you? No, because it's a contradiction that you simply cannot wrap around your miniscule snot-glob of a brain.
49thStreetBarricade 3 years ago
how in the fuck is not believing in god "acting jewish"? show me in that stupid book u call the torah where it says an atheist can remain jewish. also, i would like u to define what a jew is and i want u to do it scripturally. i'm not interested in your own personal interpretation of what a jew is. if u can't do this, it's evidence that you're the one with the miniscule snot-glob of a brain.
FuckUtube2008 3 years ago
If only you would follow your own advice!
NaderforPres 3 years ago
"Perhaps you're a Jewish Christian, but you're not a Jew."
this sentence clearly contradicts itself. if you are a JEWISH christian, you are a jew, dumb fuck.
FuckUtube2008 3 years ago
Yeah, you're so capable of civilized discussion. Go back to grade school, learn a thing or two about having conversations, and get back to me. I'm going to wait for an adult to respond. Your parents need to watch your internet habits.
49thStreetBarricade 3 years ago
"Your parents need to watch your internet habits."
That's a good one. Sorry, but I'm going to have to steal that one for my own use. :))
mickeydougal 3 years ago
Hey, it's fine. There are people on YouTube that act so puerile that it's pretty much necessary to say such a thing in nearly every heated conversation. Feel free to use it.
49thStreetBarricade 3 years ago
The problem comes from the definition of the word "Jew." It can mean both a person's blood ancestry/nationality, i.e. being born a Jew, and can also refer to a person's religious beliefs, a person who believes and practices Judaism.
If you are referring to a person's nationality, then it just becomes like people referring to themselves as "African-American" or "Polish-American." It refers to where a person is from and to where he stands now.
mickeydougal 3 years ago
Mickey,
1. Can a Christian who converted be called a Christian?
2. Can one born to non-Christian parents be called a Christian if he did not convert to Christianity?
3. Can ont born to one non-Christian parent and one Christian parent be called a Christian if he did not convert?
4. Can a muslim who never converted be called a Christian?
NaderforPres 3 years ago
To be a Christian has nothing to do with your parents. It is not a nationality or ancestry, but a belief. To once again prove my point, I refer you to the words of Jesus:
"In reply Jesus declared, 'I tell you the truth, no one can see the kingdom of God unless he is born again.'" John 3:3
You can be born to Christian parents, but that does not make you a Christian.
mickeydougal 3 years ago
So why does this definition NOT apply to Jews? Why don't you make the same specious "ancestry/nationality" distinction with respect to Christians?
NaderforPres 3 years ago
Sorry, but I don't write the dictionary. Unlike you, who make things up and passes them for fact, I only go by what the definition already is. A Jew is either a person descended from the nation or tribe of Judah, or one who practices Judaism. A Christian is a person who believes Jesus is the messiah, no matter what their ancestry is.
mickeydougal 3 years ago
Unlike me, you are the one who is making things up and passing them for fact. There is no logical basis for making such a ridiculous distinction. You have made up the meaning of Jew to mean one who descended from the tribe or nation of Judah OR practices Judaism. It makes just as much sense to argue that it means, as the Jews claim it means, one who practices Judaism--akin to the definition you have chosen for Christians. There is no logical basis for making such a distinction--except racism
NaderforPres 3 years ago
So why isn't Jesus a Jew? Your argument is that he wasn't born of Jewish parents. But he practiced Judaism, was circumcised, went to synagogue, taught there, kept the Passover, and was even called Rabbi by other Jewish priests! By your definition, that makes him Jewish! Either admit that he was Jewish, or admit that your limited definition is not the only definition!
mickeydougal 3 years ago
I am sorry, but you have to first address my comment. This is a dictionary definition of Christian--from Webster's:
Webster's Revised Unabridged Dictionary - Christian
1. One who believes, or professes or is assumed to believe, in Jesus Christ, and the truth as taught by Him; especially, one whose inward and outward life is conformed to the doctrines of Christ.
2. One born in a Christian country or of Christian parents, and who has not definitely becomes an adherent of an opposing system.
NaderforPres 3 years ago
His being called a rabbi is only found in the New Testament. There is no other significant source which corroborates that. Even if he was born a Jew (forget the fact that he was not concieved by a Jewish woman or naturally born of a Jewish woman): a Christian who renounces his Chritianity is not a Christian. Similarly, a Jew who renounces the Torah's laws is not a Jew. It is canard to argue one and deny the other. For this reason, Jesus was, at best, a Jewish apostate (according to Jews).
NaderforPres 3 years ago
By my definition, he was not Jewish because he rencounced the Jewish Torah. His followers ceased from marrying Jewish women only, therby causing their children to be born gentile. A Christian, therefore, cannot claim to be Jewish according to the proper definition or even your ridiculous definition which you refuse to apply to Christianity (or probably any other religion). Brickner's mother is not Jewish and he is not practicing--therefore he is clearly NOT a jew. His dishonsty disgusts me.
NaderforPres 3 years ago
There you go with your "pure race" thing again.
mickeydougal 3 years ago
There you go proving Godwin's law again--and demonstrating your inability to hold a real argument on the issues. If you want to apply the New Testament of Christians here, you also have to apply the rules of Judaism, too. If you cannot accept that insisting that everyone accept Jesus as their savior is just as much (actually more) about "pure race" than identifying a Jew by being born to a Jewish mother, you are clearly trying to score emotional points. And that means little in face of truth.
NaderforPres 3 years ago
I am sorry, but you have to first address my comment. This is a dictionary definition of Christian--from Webster's:
Webster's Revised Unabridged Dictionary - Christian
1. One who believes, or professes or is assumed to believe, in Jesus Christ, and the truth as taught by Him; especially, one whose inward and outward life is conformed to the doctrines of Christ.
2. One born in a Christian country or of Christian parents, and who has not definitely becomes an adherent of an opposing system.
NaderforPres 3 years ago
OK, I will concede that Mr. Webster has a different interpretation, at least on #2. But if you are going to cling to this definition, it destroys your earlier argument. Abdul Achmed Muhammed, if he was born in a "Christian country" is a Christian.
Your earlier argument was "4. Can a muslim who never converted be called a Christian?" By this definition, it would seem that yes, he has no choice!
mickeydougal 3 years ago
Exactly. So do you want to go by the dictionary definition or the more obvious definition--as to both?
NaderforPres 3 years ago
My point is: you say you are agnostic. That's your choice. No one can force you to believe anything. But, if you want to claim that you were born a Christian, and not born-again, then you would have to stand in front of God and use Webster's Dictionary to refute a quote from his son from the bible, John 3:3.
Also, if someone were born to non-Christian parents, but in a Christian country, where would Webster be on that one? It would be a paradox (and good reason not to rely on Webster).
mickeydougal 3 years ago
If you don't want to rely on Webster's definition of a Christian, then you should refrain from using Webster's definition of "Jew." I think you are being a bit disingenuous, to be frank, when you claim that one cannot stand in front of God and use Webster's dictionary to refute a quote from the bible, and at the same time resort to a "dictionary definition" of "Jew" in your conversation with me when it runs afoul with their bible.
NaderforPres 3 years ago
Here is your quote:
Sorry, but I don't write the dictionary. Unlike you, who make things up and passes them for fact, I only go by what the definition already is. A Jew is either a person descended from the nation or tribe of Judah, or one who practices Judaism. A Christian is a person who believes Jesus is the messiah, no matter what their ancestry is.
So are we going to stick with the dictionary meaning for both or the religious meaning of both.
NaderforPres 3 years ago
OK, forget definitions. You claimed that Jesus was not a Jew because "His father was god, and his mother did not give birth to him, at least in the traditional sense." Is this now ANOTHER definition of being a Jew? What dictionary did you get that one from? And for that matter, what can you possibly mean by not giving birth to him "in the traditional sense?" Are you an agnostic who believes in immaculate conception? Quite contradictory positions!
mickeydougal 3 years ago
My definition of "Jew" is based on Jewish law (just like your definition of Christian is based on Christian law, as opposed to a dictionary definition). The meaning of a Jew is one who was born to a Jewish mother. I believe that the immaculate conception renders Jesus's birth as wholly miraculous--that Mary was an incubator of sorts. But seeing as she remained a virgin even after the birth, I would think that she did not "give birth" to Jesus, but rather that he came about miraculously.
NaderforPres 3 years ago
(cont).
I am agnostic, but that does not mean that I do not believe in a supreme being or even some components of christian belief. I simply do not believe in a lot of it for reasons I can get into if you'd like. But I don't think there is any contradiction between believing in the immaculate conception and believing that God does not care for every little thing we do on this earth. More to the point, I think our belief in the immaculate conception undermines the theory that hes Messiah.
NaderforPres 3 years ago
My belief that he cannot be the messiah is that the messiah must be a descendant of David. Jesus is the son of God, and one's tribal ancestry is based on his or her patrilinial descent. Jesus, therefore, cannot be a descendant of David. Like I said before scripture and some Christian Dogma directly contradict one another.
NaderforPres 3 years ago
Finally, even if I did not theoretically believe in the immaculate conception, you do. And you have to bear the consequences on how such a theory plays out on Jesus's Jewishness. But again, even if he was a Jew, he renounced it. And just like a Christian who renounces his faith is no longer Christian; a Jew who renounces his faith is no longer a Jew. This is the real point that I was trying to make.
NaderforPres 3 years ago
Lest I am misunderstood, allow me to clarify that we, as Christians (whether born or born again) have to understand that the notion of Jesus's Messianiship cannot be accepted as a matter of Jewish law. Now, as a Christian, I can agree that this is not problematic, but as a Christian AND an honest human being, I am aghast at David Brickner's disingenuous representation as to his being 100 percent Jewish and 100 percent Christian at the same time. This is the central problem I have with him.
NaderforPres 3 years ago
Plus, I really do not like the way he pretends he, like the Orthodox Rabbi, ALSO has problems with the Old Testament. I am sure he has never read it in the original. The fact that he holds himself out as an equally Jewish rabbi grappling with the Old Testament is an affront to me as a Christian, and an insult to the collective intelligence of Larry King's viewers.
NaderforPres 3 years ago
I see where you're coming from. But I honestly believe that you're splitting hairs that just don't need to be split. I'm guessing you were raised Catholic. I have to say that I don't believe Mary remained a virgin after Jesus' birth. She and Joseph had several other children in the non-immaculate way. And I believe Jesus was born in the normal way. He was Son of God AND Son of Man. He got his humanity from his mother. And she was Jewish. You can't renounce your mother.
mickeydougal 3 years ago
I was raised Catholic; my understanding of the immaculate conception has not changed. I cannot accept that he was the son of God AND the son of Man. He is one or the other. In a sense we are all son of man and God. I cannot accept that Jesus was not different from me or you.
NaderforPres 3 years ago
And finally, strictly by Jewish law, Joseph was Jesus' father, not God. Ask Schmully. He's a "good, lawful Jew." So by the Jewish legalistic interpretation, Jesus IS descended from David. It's the paradox of grace that Y'shua brings to us. If we look strictly at law, Jesus fulfills it perfectly. And when we see this, God's grace frees us from the condemnation and guilt that result from the law. Do I understand it? No. Do I accept it without understanding it? YES!!! That's why it's called faith.
mickeydougal 3 years ago
I think it is very clear that Jesus does not fulfill all the requirements of being Messiah. We are taught to believe he will come again to fulfill them. Jews don't believe in that for reasons that I believe are equally if not more valid if one reads the scriptures, as I have, in the original hebrew. If we maintain that Jesus was born by God, he cannot be the son of Joseph. According to Jews, Jesus did not come close to fulfilling a third of the requirements, and they dispute that he came . .
NaderforPres 3 years ago
from David. The Jews obviously do not believe that we are condemned to guilt as a result of the law. I would agree with them on this, as I believe it demands self responsibility on our part, and not the reliance of another to atone for us (a major problem I had with my Catholic upbringing!). I think that there is a difference between faith and the general acceptance of doctrine without understanding it. More to the point, I think its obvious that we cannot hold others to have the same faith.
NaderforPres 3 years ago
Either way, it is very clear from this dialogue that one cannot be one hundred percent Jewish and one hundred percent Christian unless we dramatically change the meaning of standard from which we define one or the other. Certainly, David's comments suggest he means the "Christian" and "Jewish" in the same sense. That aside, David is wrong for trying to pass of his beliefs as Jewish. Deceit is a sin. A bad one, in fact. And it is unChristian of him to continue his mendacious crusade.
NaderforPres 3 years ago
I really think you should take this discussion to our forums found on our website. That being said, and having read your posts, I also think you are overlooking 3,000 years of history. It's great that you have read the scriputures in the original languages. I would encourage you to look into how Judaism the religion has changed in the past 3,000 years. Judaism of today is vastly different than that of the past. If it has changed so much, how can anyone say I am a "true Jew"? What do you think?
jfjweb 3 years ago
I would disagree with you about this. I think Judaism has not experienced significant changes in the past 3,000 years. I would encourage you to provide me some examples so that I may be able to educate you about this. For this reason, the balance of your comment and the question that flows from it is completely moot. A true Jew is a Jew as a matter of Jewish law just like a true Christian is a Christian as a matter of Christian law. You are not a Jew. David Brickener is not a Jew.
NaderforPres 3 years ago
Watch our video about the theology of Judaism. Here are a few topics.
1. Where is the temple and sacrificial system today?
2. In the new testament Jesus criticizes the Pharisees and Sadducees for their misunderstanding and mis-use of the law and prophets. Do I need to list them?
3. You can do a search on our site for details on what happened at Yavneh in 70 AD.
4. Do you know how many different denominations of Judaism are there today? 1?, 3?, 500? Which is correct?
jfjweb 3 years ago
My point is not to prove Judaism wrong put it down. My point is it has changed and scholars agree. My question is, why has it changed?
jfjweb 3 years ago
They do not agree. I have studied this subject and spoke about this subject with scholars. I have yet to find one genuine scholar (outside of Jews for Jesus) who agrees with your completely preposterous theories concerning Judaism.
NaderforPres 3 years ago
1. If you would have actually researched the subject AT ALL, you would know that Jewish belief maintains that temple and the sacrificial system will be restored when the Messiah comes. To ask this question is exceedingly disingenuous, however, as you, as a Christian, do not believe in any of the rituals proscribed in the Old Testament, anyway.
2. The Pharisees and Sadducees were criticized by the Jewish people since they crept up. What is the relevance of Jesus doing the same?
3. . .
NaderforPres 3 years ago
(cont).
I am a lot more familiar with the facts concerning Yavneh in 70 AD than you are. To be frank, I think your site does you insitution an enormous disservice as it presents an extraordinary level of ignorance on this subject.
4. Yes. There is only one Judaism. Reform and Conservative Jews do not practice it.
NaderforPres 3 years ago
I am glad you have your mind made up on these issues. Unfortunately there is an Orthodox reference called the Mishna which has a lengthy dialogue on many issues that Orthodox Jews do not agree on. Which one is representative of the One Judasim? Since your mind is made up and you are just interested in slandering and insults, we can end this conversation.
jfjweb 3 years ago
Instead of insisting on asking--you ought to answer, too. Jesus urges that man must have faith, not to be a fool. Admonishing JUSTIFIED rebuke for writing about things you know nothing about is sinful. Finding obstinance in others while refusing to acknowledge the limitations of your arguments is vain. I urge that you open your heart and mind to others who are willing to actually answer your questions, to act in good faith, and, above all, to be honest and humble before God.
RodriguezforVP 3 years ago 2
Look in the mirror. If someone disagrees with your opinion you say they know nothing about the subject.
jfjweb 3 years ago
The Talmud full of fables.*
that the Talmud contains a large assortment of pointless naïvetés, taboos, superstitions, demonic lore, myths," - The Book of Jewish Knowledge, by Nathan Ausubel.
every1hatesitschrisc 3 years ago
Jews have always had disagreements on various things. That's why the sephardim have the saying dos judios, tres opiniones. (two jews, three opinions) The oral torah is full of differing opinions..But there is one one thing universal to Jews: that there is only one G-d
and we are waiting for the messiah and the day of the Lord
JaredEricFusia 3 years ago 2
Correct (see Rambam's 13 Principles of Faith)
DoctorVonScience 3 years ago 2
You have a very analytical mind, and I respect that. There are many "loose ends" that don't seem to jibe in the scriptures. But the personal evidence I have seen to prove the Lordship of Jesus is overwhelming.
Here's a point you may or may not know. Jewish believers rarely call themselves "Christian." The term "Christ-killer" was a popular rallying cry in Nazi-Germany. Jewish believers prefer to call themselves Messianic Jews, which negates the whole Christian/non-Christian argument anyway.
mickeydougal 3 years ago
NaderforPres, this is a really interesting discussion. What I would like to ask is what do you believe the purpose of the Jewish people is? Why are they set apart?
jfjweb 3 years ago
I love this question. Let me ask you a question: What do you believe is the purpose of the Christian people? Why are they set apart?
NaderforPres 3 years ago