Dr Qureshi vs Abdallah - Has the Quran been preserved? Part 1/9 (ABNSAT.COM)

[JesusOrMuhammad]

@Ahlas Well, and many more jews accepted Jesus as their savior.. perhaps u can give me some verses from the Old Testament that would make a Jew accept Jesus as Savior and Messiah? I can give you a whole chapter where it is clearly prophecized that the Messiah would suffer and be crucified for our sins; Isaiah chapter 53.. Also the sacrificial system in Leviticus is fullfilled by Jesus. Do u know that the Jews had to make animal sacrifices for their sins? Did u know Moses made atonement 4 sins?

[KRU78]

Ahlassunnah you obviously dont know the orginal versions of The Jewish sources or you wouldnt speak with the limited view of the English translation "God" as if it only has one context and somehow has the same meaning as the terms translated as LORD. So to talk to you about "God" requires that you first know what this means in any areas you want to discuss thus afterall it does seem one of us needs a (hebrew) dictionary lol

[JesusOrMuhammad]

@MatrixOfDynamism go lie somewhere else

[Fatimasobia]

Also refer Sahih Bukhari Volume 5, Book 57, Number 23

And Sahih Muslim Book 31, Number 5906

uthman was a companion of Prophet Mohammad (P.B.U.H). He was the person whom Allah's Messenger(P.B.U.H) has chosen for His daughters;

A Person whom Allah's messenger (P.B.U.H) has given Annunciation of Paradise.

i think it is enough for one to TRUST Hazrat Uthman R.A.

[Fatimasobia]

Also refer Sahih Bukhari Volume 5, Book 57, Number 23

And Sahih Muslim Book 31, Number 5906

uthman was a companion of Prophet Mohammad (P.B.U.H). He was the person whom Allah's Messenger(P.B.U.H) has chosen for His daughters;

A Person whom Allah's messenger (P.B.U.H) has given Annunciation of Paradis

It is enough for someone to TRUST Hazrat Uthman R.A and other two Suhabas

[Fatimasobia]

Sahih Bukhari Volume 9, Book 91, Number 367:

Narrated Abu Musa:

The Prophet entered a garden and told me to guard its gate. Then a man came and asked permission to enter. The Prophet, said, "Permit him and give him the good news that he will enter Paradise." Behold! It was Abu Bakr. Then 'Umar came, and the Prophet said, "Admit him and give him the good news that he will enter Paradise." Then 'Uthman came and the Prophet said, "Admit him and give him the good news that he will enter Paradise "

[KRU78]

Sura 4:46 (To change words from their place is to alter the Quran) yet The earliest verse that was revealed to muhammad is Not placed first in the quran (instead its the first 5 verses of the 96th Surah/ Al-'Alaq )so before we even get started the quran already Contradicts itself, not something i would exspect from a Godly source.

[Ahlassunnah]

@KRU78 The Quran was revealed over a period of 23 years. The verses were revealed to Muhammad (saw) at different points in time and the Prophet (saw) dictated as to which Surah they were from and this was then recorded down. The era of the khulafa rashidoon was when the Quran was arranged into a single volume, they then had the task of placing the Surah's in their specific places, not based on when they where revealed, but based on how they saw fit and the naming of most of the Surahs also.

[Ahlassunnah]

@KRU78 I think you need to go look up the definition of contradiction. Contradiction would be if one part of the Quran said something and another part went against that. The Quran does not contradict as it is the word of Allah. A verse not being placed first is not a contradiction. The verse were revealed for specific incidents, the one you mentioned was for the revelation of prophethood.

[KRU78]

@Ahlassunnah ahlass you obviously didnt pay attention. your quran accussed jews of being guilty of altering the The WORd by changing the place of words. and according to the rule of abrogation later verses abrogate earlier verses that Contradict them. so to take later verses before earlier verses is a obvious insult to your man made source and rules of logic. If you cant comprehend these simple points its not my problem convince yourself u are right by saying your book is of allah

[Ahlassunnah]

@KRU78 Wow, it seems you didnt understand a single thing I said. "So to take later verses before earlier verses is a obvious insult to your man made source and rules of logic"- according to your logic. Everyone elses logic tells us for example, you have a population of 10,000 and a law that anyone who commits murder shall be put in prison for 20 years. Now that population goes to 1 million, more murders, prisons getting crowded. New law: capital punishment. Continued...

[Ahlassunnah]

@KRU78 So if u follow the law of capital punishment and not 20 years u are going against logic. u seem to have an exceptional definition of logic. I'll give another example from the Quran. The Muslims were numbering some 50 or so in Mecca. They were being persecuted. Did Allah give them permission 2 take up arms and fight? No, because 50 or so would have been wiped out. Later when in more number they were allowed to fight. If u cant comprehend then its a limitation on your intellect not mine.

[Ahlassunnah]

@KRU78 The Quran was revealed over a period of 23 years as apposed to the Torah referred to, which was revealed all at once, in order of the verses and could not be arranged as it was given in the form it was meant to be. Imam Suyuti said regarding the verse: "Some, group, from among the Jews distort, alter, the words, that Allah revealed in the Torah pertaining to the descriptions of Muhammad (saw), from their contexts, those in which they were placed."

[JesusOrMuhammad]

@Ahlassunnah "Jews distort, alter, the words, that Allah revealed in the Torah pertaining to the descriptions of Muhammad (saw), from their contexts"

Show me where it says this in ur quran.. if u cannot do it then ur a liar

[Ahlassunnah]

@JesusOrMuhammad "Among those who are Jews, there are some who displace words from (their) right places and say: "We hear your word and disobey,'' and "Hear and let you hear nothing.'' And Ra`ina with a twist of their tongues and as a mockery of the religion. And if only they had said: "We hear and obey'', and "Do make us understand,'' it would have been better for them, and more proper; but Allah has cursed them for their disbelief, so they believe not except a few."

[JesusOrMuhammad]

@Ahlassunnah The key word is "some" NOT all jews.. just a group of jews who did that according to ur book.. but u made a assertion that it had something to do in connection with muhammad being mentioned in their scripture.. which ur quran doesn´t say.. that was why i asked u to show that from the quran.. but anyway

[Ahlassunnah]

@JesusOrMuhammad "Those who follow the messenger, the unlettered Prophet, whom they find mentioned in their own (scriptures), in the Torah and the Injeel". *Surah Araf: 157)

[JesusOrMuhammad]

@Ahlassunnah So? Jews and Christians never found Muhammad mentioned in their scriptures thats the problem with everything in ur Quran - there is no evidence to support any of the assertions of Muhammad / islam. No Jew or Christian has ever converted to islam because they found muhammad in their scriptures.

And thats because Muhammad is nowhere mentioned in the entire Bible.. and before ur going to make an attempt to show me that he is mentioned, i suggest u watch my videos first

[KRU78]

@Ahlassunnah real convienient claim for muhammad (the Only messenger of islam). keep following this One Man if u wish. this is nothing more than self justification for muhammad spewing his own ideology. Honestly i'm not interested in your ideology and comments of no value.

[Ahlassunnah]

@KRU78 The only messenger of Islam? Every single prophet or messenger mentioned in the Bible is also a messenger of Islam, including jesus who was not the son of God , nor was he god, nor was he part of the three in one demigod that the councl of nicae spewed up . Looks like I just shamed you up, if your gonna make a claim and get refuted then know your place and dont spew rubbish when you cand answer me. Otherwise you just embarass yourself and make urself look foolish.

[KRU78]

@Ahlassunnah Yes muhammad is the only messenger of the source of islam (the quran) as your sources tell u & his message contradicts all th messages brought 4th of The Prophets of God, he perverted many sources of faith not only th monothesitic Abrahamic 1s & then had the nerve to claim the names of God's choosen people withn his remix. So yeah u read it right & u cant bring evidence to discount it all u can bring is islamic propaganda again not interested n your ideology u follow 1 Man.

[Ahlassunnah]

@KRU78 He never contradicted any of the prophets, the jews did n they changed the scripture and this can be seen from the many clear cut contradictions found in ur "word of god" (ie. guy became king at 17 another verse says 21) u perverted monotheism, check up the definition of monotheism, it means one God, not three in one, not god being his own father and son, not God having a son to a woman, all u can spout out is Christian propaganda which can be disproved from logic and ur own scriptures.

[KRU78]

@Ahlassunnah your claim lacks detail and documentation why would that be? hmmmm:) like i need a dictionary to know monotheisim lol monotheisim was here long before muhammad and I am Monotheistic without muhammad's perverted ideology. You cant use The Tanach or the N.T. to go against my faith, as to your perverted view of "Christianity" it has nothing to do with me or my faith

[Ahlassunnah]

@KRU78 My claim does not lack detail, if you cant comprehend then its a lapse in your intellect and not mine. I basically refuted your comment and you had nothing to say to that so you went on spouting out your own preverted ideas and opinions without any basis. Do you believe Jesus is God or the Son of God? If you do then I suggest again you check up the dictionary meaning.

[KRU78]

@Ahlassunnah haha doesnt lack detail? u say a "guy became king at 17 another verse says 21" what guy and where is the documentation BRING YOUR PROOFS. That lacks detail n any logical discussion. so 2 insist on a responce is silly. As 2 ur last ? The Man Jesus is an instrument of The LORD born of a virgin. The Spirit that dwells n Yeshua is that of The LORD. Thus Spiritually Yeshua is a member of Elohim (also translated God) "God" is spirit Jn 4:24/ Man consists of both flesh & spirit Gen 2:7,..

[Ahlassunnah]

@KRU78 Sorry not 17 or 21 that was just as an example. Jehoiachin became king at 18 (2 kings: 24:8 RSV) and Jehoichin became king at 8 (2 Chronicles 36:9 RSV). This is just one of many clear contradictions in the bible. If you wanted proof for something then ask for it , dont say my claim lacks detail as I have made many claims and not just one. So God is a part of man, thats not monetheism that is anthropomorphism. Like I said: dictionary.

[KRU78]

@Ahlassunnah Yeah an INCORRECT "example". & I showed how it wasnt a contradiction you either cant understand or trying to twist the context of the scriptures like muhammad did. You not understanding that lack of detail and asking for proofs is the same thing is not something i want to sit around wonderning about lol. and your source says God breathed life into man. u misunderstood my CLEAR comment God is spirit not man Jn.4:24 Num23:19 what about that u dont get? ur wasting my time.

[Ahlassunnah]

@KRU78 How about u reply to the silly comment you made on co-regency (if u even know what that is). Now back 2 the matter at hand, u believe that humans r a part of god, this is ur perverted ideologyon montheism, dont even try to equate it 2 Islam, when the Quran says something of the attributes or what Allah did, we do not try 2 interpret and twist it for our own perverted dogma, rather we accept and affirm without trying to explain away and say God is part of man, this is like Istiwa ala arsh.

[KRU78]

@Ahlassunnah you are Seriously mental, I never said humans are a part of God lol rather I DOCUMENTED that God is Spirit. man is physical so you need to first understand the difference in Spiritual vs. Physical before we can have a fruitful conversation.

[KRU78]

@Ahlassunnah let me help u with your silly arguement (1st the ages are 18 and 8 LOL) (2nd the documentation is 2 Kings 24:8 & 2 Chron. 36:9) the 18 includes co regency 8 is reign alone this practice common Israel and Judah as well as most all ancient contemporary kingdoms your ignorance is cause u only see the word through modern propaganda and lack knowledge on culture and time

[Ahlassunnah]

@KRU78 Your claim still doesnt make any sense. One says he was 18 and another 8, co-regency is to rule along with someone. The bible doesnt say he ruled along with someone. A number is a number, one verse says he ruled at 18 for 3 months and 10 days and another says at 8 for three months.