I get all excited when I see Midori's clips on YouTube--from 30 years ago. Her jumps are amazing, of course, but her spins, speed, edging, enthusiasm, presentation, etc. are ALL impressive.
At the same time, I watch the performances by Witt, Thomas, Trenary, etc. and feel ABSOLUTELY nothing... How are they more artistic than Midori??? It was all just an excuse to keep Midori down.
Well, if I were a judge who were supposed to judge Midori's SP under the COP system, I would be frustrated to death for not being allowed to give more than +3 GOE for her 2A, that's for sure.
That's the one thing about the COP that I really do like. Midori would have thrived under the COP system, because she had amazing techinical ability, plus top GOE scores on all spins and footwork. And her transitions are still the best ever (she never just skated around at all)!!! The only thing that may have held her back would be her spiral, but that wasn't required back then.
It's so obvious that there was a bias against her because she wasn't "feminine" or "pretty." Ludicrous.
One thing to remember, fair or unfair, is that European judges do not like to see wrapped free legs in the jumps; and Ito does that all over the place here. That is going to ding her artistic marks in their eyes.
This program is extremely strong. For the both of the double jumps, she uses interesting arm positions. Her layback spin is beautiful and who else could do a flying sit spin like this? Yet, her artistic impression scores were kept low. I know that the judges wantededa feminine dancer on ice. Unfortunately, Midori was not a feminine skater. However, in my eyes, her athletic moves were artistic enough to excite the audience.
What's so frustrating about skating back then is that if Witt had skated this IDENTICALLY (except for the combo which she couldn't do so we'll leave that out), but artistically, she would have been given 5.9's. The thought was "witt is an artistic skater" and Ito got labeled as the "athletic and therefore not artistic" skater, and it was very hard for her to shake it. I still say that Ito should have gotten all 6.0's for first mark at 88 olympics.
Witt could do a triple loop in 87 so I am not sure that combination of triple loop-double to would have been impossible for her this year. Yes you are otherwise right, but Ito legitimately lacked polish somewhat at this point, and also reputation and being a proven champion is part of the sport. It isnt just the case for Witt vs Ito but many others over the years. Kadavy was undermarked for many of her great skates too since she was looked at as the 3rd American behind Thomas and Trenary.
Don't get me wrong. I thought that Witt's free at this worlds was exceptional (her best ever imo), and she deserved to win here. However, her short was over marked artistically (if Ito had done that program, her scores would have been horrendous), and I felt Ito had the same polish as Witt, and in terms of edging and smoothness, Ito was more smooth in my view. But you are right that reputation has always played a major role in this sport (for good or bad). Witt's free here, though, rocked!
Yes I agree if they switched bodies and did the same skates the marks would look totally different. Also if #1 in reputation American Thomas had done so called #3 American Kadavy's great short program here she would have received all 5.9s and won the short easily, while if #3 American Kadavy had done Thomas's so so short with the hand down she would have probably gotten 4.9s, lol
I like the music in this short program. Matches Midori's skating power and speed. People often criticize Midori for her lack of artistry, but her speed and power more than makes up for it, and the music she chooses has to match that. Here, it does! A great program that highlights Midori's extraordinary talents. Anyone know the name of the music here?
Midori was far from perfect, some of her elements such as certain camel spins and her leg positions on the slow sections were off, but I believe that the flow in and out of jumps and the distance covered in them, plus the fact that her other spins such as layback were so superior that those elements are indeed artistic, and she should have gotten more credit for them.
This comment has received too many negative votesshow
she is a good jumper, but where is choreo, where is artistic value to this? to me, watching her is like watching kick-boxing.. plain, and boring, even though admittedly she is technically good (jump-wise)
If you mean she didn't pose and preen like Katarina does, no, there is no theatrical value. But, don't compare artistic with theatric. The audience sounded bored.
Midori always got such a bad, undeserved rap about her artistic abilities. Compared to her technical merit, which was light years ahead of all the other women, by at least a decade if not more, it's no wonder. The comparison is like comparing Wolfgang Puck to Chef Boyardee.
No female skater has ever been able to jump as high and with such ease and speed as Midori Ito. The jumps literally "float" in mid-air. And the speed with which she moves across the ice. The spins and footwork too are well done. Wow.
Wow, the speed throughout that program was breathtaking...unbelieveable...seriously...you don't see that kind of speed maintained in today's skating...it's very rare....and so nice to see...whew...I ran out of breath watching her! Superb jumping too...love the hand and arm variations.
As a two-time Olympic Champion, I used to admire Katarina Witt. But thanks to YouTube, I realized I was wrong. Now that I get to see all the archives, I know who the real winner is. Midori is the best skater ever.
I agree. Look at her program at the Olympics in 1988 -brilliant. The judges were blind. Their idea of artistry just meant that you had to have a pretty dress and flap your wrists about.
I don't know what her artistic impression marks were on this program, but I bet they were way too low given the way she skated. Witt received very high marks for her artistry in the 87 SP just because of her reputation even though her program was stilted and awkward, with ghastly choreography. Ito's program was better or at least as good in both difficulty and artistry than any of the other competitors there. Her low placements from 1985-1988 is a travesty this sport will never live down.
Anyone have her long programs at Worlds from 1985 to 1987? I bet she deserved to win at least one of those but was ridiculously held down by the school figures.
I get all excited when I see Midori's clips on YouTube--from 30 years ago. Her jumps are amazing, of course, but her spins, speed, edging, enthusiasm, presentation, etc. are ALL impressive.
At the same time, I watch the performances by Witt, Thomas, Trenary, etc. and feel ABSOLUTELY nothing... How are they more artistic than Midori??? It was all just an excuse to keep Midori down.
nondescriptnyc 9 months ago 8
この後の選手は滑りにくいやろなw
yosidatosimaro 1 year ago 3
Well, if I were a judge who were supposed to judge Midori's SP under the COP system, I would be frustrated to death for not being allowed to give more than +3 GOE for her 2A, that's for sure.
AWfan52525 1 year ago 7
That's the one thing about the COP that I really do like. Midori would have thrived under the COP system, because she had amazing techinical ability, plus top GOE scores on all spins and footwork. And her transitions are still the best ever (she never just skated around at all)!!! The only thing that may have held her back would be her spiral, but that wasn't required back then.
It's so obvious that there was a bias against her because she wasn't "feminine" or "pretty." Ludicrous.
mlc2005 1 year ago 2
One thing to remember, fair or unfair, is that European judges do not like to see wrapped free legs in the jumps; and Ito does that all over the place here. That is going to ding her artistic marks in their eyes.
indiatree 1 year ago
This program is extremely strong. For the both of the double jumps, she uses interesting arm positions. Her layback spin is beautiful and who else could do a flying sit spin like this? Yet, her artistic impression scores were kept low. I know that the judges wantededa feminine dancer on ice. Unfortunately, Midori was not a feminine skater. However, in my eyes, her athletic moves were artistic enough to excite the audience.
kh3205 2 years ago 5
What's so frustrating about skating back then is that if Witt had skated this IDENTICALLY (except for the combo which she couldn't do so we'll leave that out), but artistically, she would have been given 5.9's. The thought was "witt is an artistic skater" and Ito got labeled as the "athletic and therefore not artistic" skater, and it was very hard for her to shake it. I still say that Ito should have gotten all 6.0's for first mark at 88 olympics.
mlc2005 2 years ago 16
Witt could do a triple loop in 87 so I am not sure that combination of triple loop-double to would have been impossible for her this year. Yes you are otherwise right, but Ito legitimately lacked polish somewhat at this point, and also reputation and being a proven champion is part of the sport. It isnt just the case for Witt vs Ito but many others over the years. Kadavy was undermarked for many of her great skates too since she was looked at as the 3rd American behind Thomas and Trenary.
grafgirl27 2 years ago 4
Don't get me wrong. I thought that Witt's free at this worlds was exceptional (her best ever imo), and she deserved to win here. However, her short was over marked artistically (if Ito had done that program, her scores would have been horrendous), and I felt Ito had the same polish as Witt, and in terms of edging and smoothness, Ito was more smooth in my view. But you are right that reputation has always played a major role in this sport (for good or bad). Witt's free here, though, rocked!
mlc2005 2 years ago 5
Yes I agree if they switched bodies and did the same skates the marks would look totally different. Also if #1 in reputation American Thomas had done so called #3 American Kadavy's great short program here she would have received all 5.9s and won the short easily, while if #3 American Kadavy had done Thomas's so so short with the hand down she would have probably gotten 4.9s, lol
grafgirl27 2 years ago 4
I like the music in this short program. Matches Midori's skating power and speed. People often criticize Midori for her lack of artistry, but her speed and power more than makes up for it, and the music she chooses has to match that. Here, it does! A great program that highlights Midori's extraordinary talents. Anyone know the name of the music here?
mrshinyshoes 2 years ago 4
its taken from the film 9 to 5 (Jane Fonder)
taffdiver 2 years ago
thank you taffdiver
mrshinyshoes 2 years ago
@taffdiver i can't found this song >__< help me please!!
pelomiao 5 days ago
Mr/Ms. outthehead,
Don't scoff at kick-boxing. Don't underrate or look down on it.
housfuliez 3 years ago
Comment removed
housfuliez 3 years ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
Midori's jumps are great of course, but everything else is just funny to me.. that's my personal opinion.
outthehead 3 years ago
Midori was far from perfect, some of her elements such as certain camel spins and her leg positions on the slow sections were off, but I believe that the flow in and out of jumps and the distance covered in them, plus the fact that her other spins such as layback were so superior that those elements are indeed artistic, and she should have gotten more credit for them.
bcollins2007 3 years ago 2
This comment has received too many negative votes show
she is a good jumper, but where is choreo, where is artistic value to this? to me, watching her is like watching kick-boxing.. plain, and boring, even though admittedly she is technically good (jump-wise)
outthehead 3 years ago
If you mean she didn't pose and preen like Katarina does, no, there is no theatrical value. But, don't compare artistic with theatric. The audience sounded bored.
Midori always got such a bad, undeserved rap about her artistic abilities. Compared to her technical merit, which was light years ahead of all the other women, by at least a decade if not more, it's no wonder. The comparison is like comparing Wolfgang Puck to Chef Boyardee.
bcollins2007 3 years ago 3
i never liked Katarina Witt actually :) i hate her skating, if i may say so. even though her technical side (=jumping ability) was very strong.
outthehead 3 years ago
Yes unfortunately her artistry was compared to her own technical abilities rather than other womens artistry as it should have been.
russianskatingfan 2 years ago 4
No female skater has ever been able to jump as high and with such ease and speed as Midori Ito. The jumps literally "float" in mid-air. And the speed with which she moves across the ice. The spins and footwork too are well done. Wow.
mrshinyshoes 3 years ago
This was clearly the best SP at the event. Her LP was second only to Witt's and even there she was stronger technically.
Zuranthium 3 years ago
katatina witt is still the best competitor to ever skate. she had nerves of steel.
koolaidnhemlock 3 years ago
so high jump!
kaisersweeta 3 years ago
WOW! Look at the height on those jumps. Amazing.
cashisking98 4 years ago 3
Wow, the speed throughout that program was breathtaking...unbelieveable...seriously...you don't see that kind of speed maintained in today's skating...it's very rare....and so nice to see...whew...I ran out of breath watching her! Superb jumping too...love the hand and arm variations.
fairfielder 4 years ago 18
That HUGE double axel with the hands on the hips is just about the best skating jump ever, IMO!!!!
BmcC102 4 years ago 10
As a two-time Olympic Champion, I used to admire Katarina Witt. But thanks to YouTube, I realized I was wrong. Now that I get to see all the archives, I know who the real winner is. Midori is the best skater ever.
ryotatateishi 4 years ago 10
I agree. Look at her program at the Olympics in 1988 -brilliant. The judges were blind. Their idea of artistry just meant that you had to have a pretty dress and flap your wrists about.
Newhighlander 4 years ago 9
I don't know what her artistic impression marks were on this program, but I bet they were way too low given the way she skated. Witt received very high marks for her artistry in the 87 SP just because of her reputation even though her program was stilted and awkward, with ghastly choreography. Ito's program was better or at least as good in both difficulty and artistry than any of the other competitors there. Her low placements from 1985-1988 is a travesty this sport will never live down.
indiatree 4 years ago 11
Wow now you're talking. Come back Midori you were fantastic. my heroine.
TripleAxelF 4 years ago 4
how she didn't win more medals in international competition is beyond me...
livuali 4 years ago 3
Anyone have her long programs at Worlds from 1985 to 1987? I bet she deserved to win at least one of those but was ridiculously held down by the school figures.
Zuranthium 4 years ago
Brave musical choice. She would skate circles (literally) around most female skaters today.
hinginator 5 years ago 3
i wish i could skate :(
hydrocarbure1 5 years ago