1) Well, you start with the assumption that p, t, and k are going to shift as Grimm had predicted (f, th, and x [ch]). If it doesn't work, you're probably dealing with Verner's Law. 2) T tended to stay t within Germanic, except in High German (tide, better ~ Zeit, besser). On occasion, however, VL treated t in unexpected ways, as in endings.
could you explain why people always talk about verner's law coming AFTER grimm's law (or vice versa) in time? was either grimm or verner right or did both shift systems happen just at different times. thanks for your help
You are my hero, thank you very much. Your videos have been a great help for this armchair philologist, who has been trying to make sense of public domain textbooks!
Ordinarily, a mistake like this would drive me absolutely insane, but I'm worried if I fix it and replace the video, the counter would go down to nil, and I'd be more upset.
I had a similar issue with lesson 3 of my Gothic for Goths videos, but to soothe my inner obsessive-compulsive, I just pointed it out in the comments by offering a prize to anyone who could find it. None have so far...
Excellent, really excellent video, my friend! I'd love to see your 1066 french/english history video on here!
Hard to say, except that, in the days before "correct spelling," when a letter was there, we can usually assume it was pronounced. In Modern German this is not the case, since h often simply indicates vowel length, as in 'gehen.'
this is totally amazing. the joy of historical linguistics! I answered on Verner's Law in the last question of the very last exam of my degree, so I have great affection for it.
if there ~were~ no Verner's Law, I would be quite ~forlorn~ (oooh, see what I did there?)
@rebeckery You would not have been quite forlorn, the current semantics thereof is perhaps from a loan translation from Dutch 'verloren hoop' (forlorn heap = destroyed heap [of soldiers])'. Also, PP loren > -lorn is from OE leosan, not from OE losian. Both are from the IE root *leu-, however, the long-vowel/diphthong variation is again a question of different syllable stress, though under a different rule, as I understand it, in a nutshell. ;-)
Frau Verner was a patient woman who endured her husband's countless hours away at the library or holed up in his dusty office. Or so my un-researched assumption would have me believe.
Wow! Thanks for your comment! No permission needed at this point in time. HEL = History of the English Language, I assume? Parts 1 and 2 might be better suited to that course, but feel free to show whatever floateth your nacan.
Well, I'll show all three parts, actually, as part of their review session--History of the English Language can be a tough sell to the undergraduates at my college, and anything that gets them laughing while reinforcing our work is worth its weight in gold.
Thanks--and do get the word out if you ever produce a version for sale!
Thank you so much for putting this online. Brilliant, brilliant stuff all around. "Karl Verner created a law that shook the world of those people who happened to read the Zeitschrift fur vergleichende Sprachforschung. Way to go, Karl!"
Is there a permission needed to play this for my HEL class--and if so, how might one go about getting one?
dont understand a single thing in this video
Senaline 2 weeks ago
@AvuncularFeldspar
All these things apart -- a very accessible exposition, and fun to watch, too! Thank you! Just had my IE and Old Norse students watch it.
Yarrski 9 months ago
@AvuncularFeldspar
All these things apart -- a very accessible exposition, and fun to watch, too! Thank you! Just had my IE and Old Norse students watch it.
Yarrski 9 months ago
question: when do we know which word is affected by Grimm's Law and which by verner's law
why did t > th in Germanic when t > d in West Germanic (see video at 3:25 ).
Very thankful for the videos and grateful for explanations!
silvr94 1 year ago
1) Well, you start with the assumption that p, t, and k are going to shift as Grimm had predicted (f, th, and x [ch]). If it doesn't work, you're probably dealing with Verner's Law. 2) T tended to stay t within Germanic, except in High German (tide, better ~ Zeit, besser). On occasion, however, VL treated t in unexpected ways, as in endings.
AvuncularFeldspar 1 year ago
could you explain why people always talk about verner's law coming AFTER grimm's law (or vice versa) in time? was either grimm or verner right or did both shift systems happen just at different times. thanks for your help
silvr94 1 year ago
@AvuncularFeldspar
The difference between Modern German and Present Day English is related to the Second Consonant Shift, I assume.
Great video, kudos!!!
uworissimo 1 year ago
way to go Karl!
maggmiss 1 year ago 2
amazing video essay!
vykyvt 1 year ago
You are my hero, thank you very much. Your videos have been a great help for this armchair philologist, who has been trying to make sense of public domain textbooks!
greatbigdragon 2 years ago 2
Muchas Danke, dude!
AvuncularFeldspar 2 years ago
@4:10 "Pronons"?
Sorry, lots of practice at copyediting, it jumped out at me. Otherwise, phenomenal videos!
cjrecord 2 years ago
Ordinarily, a mistake like this would drive me absolutely insane, but I'm worried if I fix it and replace the video, the counter would go down to nil, and I'd be more upset.
AvuncularFeldspar 2 years ago
I had a similar issue with lesson 3 of my Gothic for Goths videos, but to soothe my inner obsessive-compulsive, I just pointed it out in the comments by offering a prize to anyone who could find it. None have so far...
Excellent, really excellent video, my friend! I'd love to see your 1066 french/english history video on here!
benjaminpauljohnson 2 years ago
How strong should the h have been in Middle High German mahen?
MaBu888 2 years ago
Hard to say, except that, in the days before "correct spelling," when a letter was there, we can usually assume it was pronounced. In Modern German this is not the case, since h often simply indicates vowel length, as in 'gehen.'
AvuncularFeldspar 2 years ago
this is totally amazing. the joy of historical linguistics! I answered on Verner's Law in the last question of the very last exam of my degree, so I have great affection for it.
if there ~were~ no Verner's Law, I would be quite ~forlorn~ (oooh, see what I did there?)
rebeckery 2 years ago 4
I saw what you did! Ha!
AvuncularFeldspar 2 years ago
@rebeckery You would not have been quite forlorn, the current semantics thereof is perhaps from a loan translation from Dutch 'verloren hoop' (forlorn heap = destroyed heap [of soldiers])'. Also, PP loren > -lorn is from OE leosan, not from OE losian. Both are from the IE root *leu-, however, the long-vowel/diphthong variation is again a question of different syllable stress, though under a different rule, as I understand it, in a nutshell. ;-)
Thorsigurd 3 months ago
Thank you very much!! This is helping me pass my "language change & history of the English language" exam.
a3nne 2 years ago 5
Huzzah! Thanks!
AvuncularFeldspar 2 years ago
Way to go, Karl!
Rovertyesmar88 2 years ago 2
Did you go to Wayne State?
zekal10 3 years ago
WSU my alma mater.
AvuncularFeldspar 3 years ago 2
WOO HOO!
zekal10 3 years ago
Aww, heck! :)
AvuncularFeldspar 3 years ago
thanks, it was a great review for my History of the German Language mid-term.
calinai 3 years ago
That's great to hear! Thank you!
AvuncularFeldspar 3 years ago
Well, the discussion of free vs. root stress is intriguing, but the stuff about Frau Verner seems in excess of any evidence I've seen.
mevillious 3 years ago
Frau Verner was a patient woman who endured her husband's countless hours away at the library or holed up in his dusty office. Or so my un-researched assumption would have me believe.
AvuncularFeldspar 3 years ago
Wow! Thanks for your comment! No permission needed at this point in time. HEL = History of the English Language, I assume? Parts 1 and 2 might be better suited to that course, but feel free to show whatever floateth your nacan.
AvuncularFeldspar 3 years ago
Well, I'll show all three parts, actually, as part of their review session--History of the English Language can be a tough sell to the undergraduates at my college, and anything that gets them laughing while reinforcing our work is worth its weight in gold.
Thanks--and do get the word out if you ever produce a version for sale!
corvuscoraxvarius 3 years ago
Thank you so much for putting this online. Brilliant, brilliant stuff all around. "Karl Verner created a law that shook the world of those people who happened to read the Zeitschrift fur vergleichende Sprachforschung. Way to go, Karl!"
Is there a permission needed to play this for my HEL class--and if so, how might one go about getting one?
corvuscoraxvarius 3 years ago