Giving false hope to otherwise hopeless people is not a good thing ... It serves as a misdirection for their attention ... Without being blinkered by religion one could better focus on the causes of their hopelessness & rail against it ... That gives a human worth even if they fail ... Stand in absolute defiance of Ragnorok ...
To say religion has good aspects is like saying stabbing someone in the eye is good in the respect that it will free up a parking spot. Religion is guidance toward bigortry, ignorance and separation between them and those other religions. It's a delusion, it would be far better for that person to get off their ass and strive for a change than "hope" thier imaginary friend will take care of everything.
@ant1establishment Completely agree. I don't know how people can look at books like the bible and quaran and take them seriously. Religious texts, the bible being the biggest one to deal with in the US, are just riddled with hypocrisy. The bible is all about bigotry and teaching hate towards others over petty shit like gender and sexual orientation. I think religion is the driving force behind a lot of this hate, because otherwise, I don't know why itw ould be there or why anyone would care.
@FreedomIsAfarce It's bullshit. The concept of "diversity" isn't a bad one, but it is to the point where we are all forced into other cultures more than is necessary. I really don't understand what is up with this "you must keep your culture!" shit to people coming to the US these days. No one ever made a huge deal of that during early European/African/Asian immigration, but rather to embrace being an American. They wanted to get out of their stadium, so they can start rooting for their new team
religion are the one who are trying to covert people even with violance!!!! an atheist doensent do that !!
and dude an atheist /agnostic is ussing sience to proof some facts and you got only your book
In your book is enough shit written that issent true and atheist and agnostics are trying to show you with there evidence your book is wrong so it cant be from a god because god is the creater from everything so he cant made any mistakes you religions people claim
I agree that many people get so caught up in organized religion that they are told to share their Faith, so many begin to beat others with their Bible. God is a Spirit and one can only see him through their own spirit, it's a personal relationship that has to be found and nurtured by each person. Reading the Bible show us the way God sees. Many times organized religion can add more baggage that keeps you from seeing the whole Truth. Read Hebrews 11:6
"The fact that a believer is happier than a skeptic is no more to the point than the fact that a drunken man is happier than a sober one." - G.B. Shaw
and i would personally add, that just like being drunk.. being religious can influense your actions.. and extremism is allways dwelling within the texts, waiting for the right sort of person to interpret it. and moderate people will allways provide them with cover by protecting faith itself
The positive affects of witch you speak are in no considerable way restricted to religion in general.. Some of them might be linked to spirituality, but religion has no monopoly on that
i don't mind anyones personal beliefs. But when it affects politics, education, etc, then i do mind. Also hate the way people can launder hate through religion
Religion and superstition poisons the well, in my opinion
Christopher Hitchens answers the points of Religious benefits and charity quite well
english is my second language, so maybe you are right. It doesn't change the fact that my definition of his quote, makes it valid, even if the common usage of the word "drunken", would invalidate his analogy
Never mind the fact that you merely asserted that most drunks are unhappy
"Religion sometimes gives hope, to people who are hopeless, and that's a good thing."
I think this is a common idea and I'm not going to deny it, I'm sure that faith in certain circumstances can improve a life. The fact that it can, however, has no bearing on whether or not the claims of religion(s) are true. There will always be an amount of dishonesty involved... "yeah it's probably not true, but let them stay ignorant, let them have faith." See what I mean? I'm not sure that's moral either.
at 2:49, i always say that. It helps people. He wont understand, soon when i get my camera, im going to put videos up explaining all my thoughts. You make very good points
man dont you hate this guy, he gets into ppls minds, and wont mind his atheist mind. and 99% of his speech is "fuck" , his father dies, he still says it in that vid. How pity is he
The problem I find is everyone wants their own idea to be the only possibility. We can not actually prove or disprove God and a belief is only belief. Atheism, whether they like it or not is a religion too and the same problems come from it as the others. All this demanding and hate towards others. Every religion be4 it became religion, in its original form, was a guide and respected others. Greed and politics created modern religions. I agree with your points here.
Atheism is a religion. so the simple statement ' i do not believe in god' causes you t ogive alms to the poor, visit Richard Dawkin's house at least once in your lifetime and read the God delusion five times a day (can't remember the other 2 off the top of my head)- its a simple statement. not religion. as for politics- im sure some guy claiming to be prophet of god and waging a war agaisnt the unbelievers has everything to do with modern politics. right.
Saying Atheism is a religion is both idiotic and insulting. Atheism does not have an organized system of beliefs, nor does it have a church. Atheism is the rejection of a deity and religion, how you can derive it to be a religion out of that makes no sense.
You missed the point entirely... It is treated as a religious preference, regardless of whether it actually is or isn't an established religion by definition. When someone asks you what religion you are, what is your typical answer? It's probably somwhere along the lines of "Oh, I'm an atheist." Basically our society approaches atheism the same way it approaches any other system of beliefs; it socially categorizes you based on your particular preference. That's just the way things are.
If someone asks me what religion I adhere to, of course I'd say I am an atheist. BUT, that doesn't make it a religion. Heres an example:If someone asks me, what's your favorite type of meat to eat? I would reply, I'm a vegetarian, meaning I disfavor all meats in general. And of course we are socially categorized because we are atheists, but that still doesn't make it a religion. Btw, my previous post wasn't addressing the video, it was a reply to Davidong221's comment
"Atheism, whether they like it or not is a religion too"
Atheists do not believe in a god, so how can atheism be a religion? You may as well say that not collecting stamps is a hobby, or not playing football is a sport.
brushing your teeth is religion if it is a regular practice. "Sociologists and anthropologists tend to see religion as an abstract set of ideas, values, or experiences developed as part of a cultural matrix. For example, in Lindbeck's Nature of Doctrine, religion does not refer to belief in "God" or a transcendent Absolute. Instead, Lindbeck defines religion as, "a kind of cultural and/or linguistic framework or medium that shapes the entirety of life and thought..."
a set of beliefs concerning the cause, nature, and purpose of the universe, esp. when considered as the creation of a superhuman agency or agencies, usually involving devotional and ritual observances, and often containing a moral code governing the conduct of human affairs.
The last part doesn't apply however it says especially. The first part applies. Atheists still try to find the cause and purpose of the universe.
So yes Atheism is a religion. Not your normal religion, but it is.
Theism is a belief in a deity. Atheism is a LACK of belief in a deity. Saying to someone "You are religious because you don't believe in a god" is incorrect.
I guess my Webster has more definitions of the word religion than yours does. If I said an atheist was a theist, I would be wrong, saying an atheist is religious is correct, in almost all cases, because almost all atheist have a set of beliefs concerning the cause, nature and purpose of the universe.
If someone believes nothing at all and says there was no cause, nature or purpose of the universe then calling them religious would be wrong.
Now you're just playing with semantics. I'm talking about religion in terms of God. You're invoking the alternative definition of belief in something without reference to God (ie sports is a religion to some people).
It's a rather childish form of debate - "you said religion, but I've found another meaning for the word and I'm going to pretend I meant that all along."
It's actually what I meant all along, now your calling me childish? You're the one who's misusing a word. Atheism is a religion, 99% of the time at least, because almost all atheists believe in some cause for why we got here.
If you do not have any reasoning or ideas as to why human beings are here, or how they got here, then fine you have no religion, otherwise you have a religion.
I think humans came about through evolution by natural selection. As there is shedloads of evidence for that, it's not a religion because it doesn't depend on faith.
If you're asking about my ideas for WHY we're here in terms of a higher purpose for our existence beyond gene survival, I don't believe our existence has a higher purpose than any other living creature. There's no evidence to support a higher purpose, so I don't believe in one - and non-belief isn't a religion.
If you have no confidence or trust in your ideas then why do you defend them? For the fun of it? I'm pretty sure you have some faith in your belief or else you wouldn't be speaking right now.
I dont think my other post showed up, but you do have a religion, you believe in something, and you have a reason why you are here. And I defined the word faith which you also have.
Faith-confidence or trust in a person or thing:
An idea is a thing, you have confidence or trust in your idea, you have faith.
The only way to not have a religion is to not ponder questions like why are you here or why did you get here.
Yes, I do have a reason why I am here - my mum gave birth to me. I am here, and the universe does exist - so neither my or the universe's existence is a matter of faith. As to why, I don't think there is a specific purpose for me being here or the universe existing. I have no evidence for there being a purpose to life or the universe, so I don't have a belief about it. As I have no belief about it, I have no religion about either. Atheism is LACK OF BELIEF - it's not a religion.
Then why do you defend it? You believe in your lack of belief as I told the other guy, you lack of belief is your belief.
Thats what works for you fine, that is your belief, you still believe in something. Total lack of belief means you do not think at all, and I'm pretty sure most atheists think.
In the context of this video, I consider religious beliefs to be about God - it's irrelevant to start going on about other definitions of "religion" when they have nothing to do with the topic in question. Total lack of belief doesn't mean I don't think at all - it means I have thought about the subject deeply and concluded that I don't believe there is a supernatural creator of, or purpose for, the Universe. The only "faith" I have is that my reasoning (no evidence of a creator) is sound.
In terms of an actual God, no atheism is not a religion under the theistic definition, however it is a religion if you are using the definition I was yes. It is not a religion with a deity, a higher power, or any supernatural ideas, like a soul or afterlife.
But it still takes faith to be an atheist, I'm pretty sure most atheists will tell you they are correct, and in many areas endure prosecution, but still belief their belief, not someones else's.
It doesn't take faith to be an atheist. I was born an atheist, as were you. However, you have chosen to believe there is a supernatural creator of the Universe for whatever reasons, whereas I don't believe there is because there isn't a scrap of evidence to support such an idea.
Which particular god do you believe in, by the way?
I'm a Christian, and it may not take "faith" as the word is commonly used, however it is still your though process toward philosophical questions, no one was born atheist, or Christian, we were all born ignorant.
And yeah I think there is enough evidence out there to believe, but thats me, I don't wanna persuade you however, because well its best if
people are individuals and not robots, I don't want a 100% Christian world or 100% Atheist world, I want a free world. Where everyones diverse.
Of course everyone is born atheist. For the umpteenth time, atheism is a LACK OF BELIEF in God. How can you believe in something you've never heard of? For the record, most atheists don't believe there is no God - they have a lack of belief that there is a God. There is a difference if you think about it.
Why is it so hard for you to understand that atheism is a lack of belief in God? It's a simple and straighforward definition that doesn't postulate an alternate theory.
actually Muslims beleive everybody gets born muslim, if u put a baby by himself for 20 years without outside influance he will have a sense of a higher being that governs everything around him. they beleive that people revert to islam and not convert since they were influanced my people or media to stop believing in One GOD.
so ur argument doesnt hold plus there is way we can verify if a baby is born Muslim or Atheist or christian or ignorant. we simply cannot yet, maybe one day
If you believe everyone is born a Muslim, then that explains why people of other faiths (or no faith) are viewed as legitimate targets - we're all apostates, and we know what the penalty for that is in Islam.
Common sense dictates that you can't be born a believer in anything. Muslim belief on the subject is without any foundation - you just believe for dogma's sake, so my argument holds perfectly.
a guess ur common sense is not same as mine, nor is it the same as 1.5 billion people in the world
nor is it the same as many other people
talk for ur self man, saying ur 'common ssense' makes perfect sense is arrogant and a perfect example of someone lost in the darkness of his own ignorance.
My common sense does appear to differ from 1.5 billion people in the world - it doesn't necessarily mean I'm wrong.
You talk about Muslims beliefs, and then you say that there is no way to verify whether babies are born as believers or atheists. I'm saying babies aren't born with beliefs because there hasn't been one single documented case of it happening - and how would you show it anyway? If you've got some way to prove it other than by assertion of faith, I'd love to hear about it.
my friend, i just told u that we can not prove either they have a belief or not have one when they are babies. maybe u should be the first one to test that, but i doubt a parent will let isolate their baby for 10 years. i believe what i believe and u believe what u believe. So in the end only in ur death will u be certain about which belief is right and which is wrong, cause logically one has to be wrong and the other right.
But waiting till death is probably unwise since it will be too late.
You're in a trickier position than me though. There have been around 10,000 gods worshipped throughout human history. Suppose one of the other ones was responsible for everything? I would tell him I didn't believe in any god because of lack of evidence. You would tell him that not only did you not believe in him, but you actively worshipped another god instead. What's worse - someone who has nothing to do with you, or someone who is active against you? You have far more to lose than I do.
Okay - so are you saying that all the other gods that people used to worship - even those thousands of years ago - were actually Allah, but people got his name wrong?
"ACCORDING TO MUSLIMS AND THE QURAN ALL THE RELIGIONS WERE FROM A PROPHET FROM THE ONE ONLY GOD BUT GOT DISTORTED WITH TIME."
That's jolly convenient for Islam - claiming every object of worship ever. However, it's not really compelling evidence - especially if you don't think the Quran has any basis in factual history.
You could look up the history & mythology of "El Yon" (and his seven sons) One of which was named Allah, another came to be known as Zeus as well as various other Greek interpretations.
There's also an incredible history on monotheism to review - that highlights the myths read today in the Quran, Hebrew Bible, the Christian Bible, etc
Today's religious texts all come from much older mythologies; most importantly centuries of oral history that would eventually be written into Hebrew.
my friend i think u still dont understand what im saying. first of all who said that what QURAN contains is myth?? where u there. same reason i cant tell "hey it right 100% because i was there" u cant either. and ur talking about historical review ur saying... from which source? the QURAN and the bible themselves are historical sources but which one to belive if they contradict the other? do i believe the one which has multiple version in its original language and contradicts itself. or
or do i believe in a book that has no difference in its original language? and this is historical facts because we can check their validity NOW.
other than that any historical source in an ancient book is doomed to change because people change alil bit the stories and after centuries huge changes accure and thats why we see variation within the same scripture but we got ONE book that has NO diffrence in its original language of Arabic which is the QURAN.
We know the history of religions by the history that came before it. Today's monotheism comes from a Phoenician history connected to the source that we know as El or El-Yon.
Ancient tribal wars caused some of El's sons (like Zeus or Baal) to be named "false gods", yet other sons (like Allah or Yahweh) became the "one true god".
Also - Just because something is written down does not make it truth. You only need to look at what was there before to understand the history of how it came to be.
u said if something is written doest not mean it is true. i agree with u. thats why i am asking you how are u so sure that the knowledge of history you are talking about now is true? if ur telling me that u believe it because u did research/read about it then ur contradictory since u said not everything is written is right.
also, historians give sources more credibility if there is less variation in them.
in that case Qur'an is the most credible source of history.
Religious texts can be traced back to Phoenician history & art. Archeologists are still discovery more scrolls & writings. One recently depicting the mythology of the virgin birth and sacrificial savior ages before the Hebrew Bible was translated from Phoenician texts.
The Quran, I applaud it, it has remained true to it's original writing, but it's also translated from centuries of ORAL history. You can't believe that what was eventually written down is exactly the same as the old folklore.
second: who r u to say that what's in the Qur'an is folklore. i will explain: in the beginning of this conversation i said that in Islam everybody is Muslim. in the Muslim tradition there we thousands of Prophets sent to different people. That's why a knowledgeable scholar of Islam wont insult Buddha, Ismail, Jesus... etc bc in the Quran GOD said that HE didnt tell us all the Prophets he sent. which means that Buddha and all the sources of ANY religion ....
could have came originally from the ONE GOD. A good proof of this is Prophet Jesus(pbuh): in the Muslim tradition(and if u check the Bible) Jesus never claimed divinity. and said that he submitted to THE ONE GOD. but people took him as a GOD bc he worked miracles. this might've been the same case with Buddha, Zeus or any other Prophet till Adam. this means that any "folklore" could have had originally came from the same GOD but the message got distorted.
a good proof is that some sects around Islam take Prophet Muhammad as GOD. Some sects within the Shiites also take Ali(the cousin of Muhammad pbuh) as divine. like Christians take Jesus as GOD in flesh. So if these sects, distort the teachings of Islam and do something completely different, does that discredit the QURAN? or make it like if it's actually the opposite and that it's the Quran that came from those sects? no it wont. people distort messages.
thats why GOD protected the QURAN. thats why there is only ONE QURAN in Arabic. could that be a coincidence? ofcourse u can say it is and u can beg to differ but that doesnt make what i believe folklore or had an origin from something completely different since in the QURAN it is said that thousands of prophets before has the same message of submitting to the ONE GOD.
If u read the Bible (Jewish and Christian) u will see that Jesus, Abraham, Ismael and all the Prophet submit to the will of GOD.
Muhammad preached from an oral tradition that connects every other monotheistic belief. But living in 600AD, even Muhammad wouldn't be privy to the original source which dates back to (before) 1400BC.
There was El-Yon and his 7 sons, one of which was YHWH (Yahweh). The Quran shows that Allah (Arabic) is Yahweh (Hebrew), the same "God" that made the covenant with Abraham.
I call it "folklore", you can call it whatever you want.
The belief is nothing is a belief though, the only way you can truly believe in nothing is to not think at all, and I think that is what you want to pass off as an argument.
You have never done a science project ever? So I guess that if you believe in nothing evolution and the big bang they're all wrong too right?
If there is no point to living then why haven't you commited suicide? You must believe in survival or family or something.
"the only way you can truly believe in nothing is to not think at all" - Or to have thought hard and weighed up the evidence.
"I guess that if you believe in nothing evolution and the big bang they're all wrong too right?" - Evolution is an observed scientific fact, and there is evidence to support the Big Bang theory - not conclusive, but enough to make it plausible.
"If there is no point to living then why haven't you commited suicide?" - Why would I need a point? I'm alive and it's fun!
So you believe in the theory of evolution and the big bang theory, (which btw I do too, they're both plausible and don't contradict my understanding of the Bible.) but you believe in nothing, you believe in science right? You believe you can talk, that is what I am saying when I say to truly believe nothing is to not think at all. However from a supernatural standpoint sure you don't believe, but that doesn't make atheism belief in nothing, it just means nothing supernatural.
Some people NEED these beliefs? I have always doubted such an assumption. Is there anything showing a consistent trend proving that statement? I mean it is really fucking interesting how almost every society in the known history of man formulated a deity or a set of deities.... but that doesn't prove the assumption. At some point man evolved a brain capable of comprehending his own mortality. This i think spawned religion and with religion came its benefits and in the modern world its flaws.
The oldest beliefs that evoked a god-worship "spawned" from the fears of thunderstorms, lightning, volcanoes, hurricanes, floods and "sure" our own mortality.
It was a bunch of clever monkeys pooping in their caves trying to figure out what the hell was going on around them.
Their little brains assumed that such things could only come from animals bigger than themselves ... eventually deciding it could only come from people bigger than themselves (giants), and soon it became god(s).
For an agnostic, you have a pretty good grasp on free will. A couple of points. One, some people do kill, and some that do think it's ok, so clearly there needs to be a law. By nature, people are going to do wrong. As for some needing religion, that's true, but there is a difference between religion (a practice) and a relationship with Jesus, which is what true Christians have. I know, I know, you don't believe. But in Jesus there IS hope, and there IS peace. He loves you, you know.
some of the points I've made, is being placed as spam..and I got responses tht non-muslims agrees to my points..wht he is sayin is completely wrong..he is only twisting things to make it look like he is very inteligent..and u can make a person believe lot of things, by giving a personal well thought out translation..its not tht hard..its just funny to me to see guys responding so surely to his video, when I'm sure they have NO IDEA wht he is talkin abt..
I'm Muslim and I commented on tht video like thousands of times..and its amazing how people loves to hate Muslims..Its like we are a disease..but whts more sad is that Muhammed peace be upon him respect Jesus and even mentions Jesus as another Prophet in the Q'uran..thts the level of respect the Q'uran given to Jesus..but I see Christians curse me out and completely being the monster tht he claims the Muslims are..u knw, Its so funny to see hypocrites debate..
I am not surprised if there are atheists or agnostics for that matter. God has foretold thousands of years ago in Psalms 14 that people would deny Him. This is a proof that there is a God, the only one who knows and tells the future accurately. why can't you believe in God? you are surrounded by the works of the Creator. If you see a house in the forest, you think someone built it. All the more you should believe in God for the existence of the universe, animals, plants,seas, mountains and men.
And dinosaur bones found in the earth is some kind of toy "god" has made for us? and all the scientific evidence of the earth being bilions of years old are just nonesense? All religion is fake, and a way too soothe the poor and pardon violence and atrosities... get a grip freak
mmm nice job. u seem like a very relaxed person. u must take in all sides of the stories i presume? its nice to see someone who doesnt get as "into ot" as others. i hope to actually start joinin along with u and amazingatheist by replying to ur vids with some of my own. but no camera yet :\ im sure we can all agree on one thing... religion is MODERN BRAINWASHING. of course ull want ur kids to also believe in them. so u will raise them to. they will have no choice in the matter.
No, the reason America can't overcome its fear of the countries you mentioned is because the countries you mentioned can't overcome their unconditional insatiable hatred of the West. That's all there is to it.
Lol! Matter cannot be created or destroyed. By tearing down religion yoru creating something new! You can't destroy something you simply make it something. Lol.
Lol. The amazing atheist!!! If you took the vulgar words out of His Videos He would be saying nothing new. I like what you said here. Although on a personal level, I do not need religion in my life,,,LOL. I need the Creator of all things to lead me in this life. Blessings chase you down,,Granmama, Carol
I'd assume most of his dislike is the bi-product of "Corporate Religion" forcing doctrines into every aspect of society ... which I completely understand.
He's generalized every aspect of religion as negative (for whatever reason) and I really don't think he gets just how much he's allowing "that-which-he-hates" to manipulate his own life.
Hes young, sometimes it takes awhile to reach out in love rather than hate. Forgiveness is hard to receive when you look in people rather than the heart of the Creator. The only thing i want to be controlled by is the kindness of the Holy Spirit of God, all these years and the only hope is still in The maker of us all. Lovingly, Granmama, Carol
Asking a man to find love & forgiveness with something they think is a lie, is asking too much.
I don't know if you could honestly see what's it's like from an atheist's viewpoint, but I'd tell you it's important to have empathy with anyone that disagrees with you.
We live in that world which not only demands you accept popular truth, but dictates you're ignorant for not - To not conform, can be a lonely frustrating road.
religion is the root of all evil. just think how much of a nicer place the world would be without it. lets face it - books like the bible were written to keep people in check n later they have just took it way too far!!
And lets not gloss over the fact you cited an example quote from the qu'ran which exhibited the first octaple negative ive ever seen in defense of the justness of that religious text! So far as im concerned, your own quote has just defeated you in this debate! My point is that the qu'ran is more prone to dodgy/evil interpretation, then you provide a quote with an octaple negative.. I think we need a third party to start contributing now if you persist in being the devils advocate.
The text is about returning in kind. Like currently, with countries that are warring against them, because those countries & citizens see Islam as "evil".
It's saying that it's okay to retaliate or claim jihad. The declaration of a "Jihad" is the decision that determines if a current conflict is about religion.
The Quran does not tell them to kill JUST BECAUSE they don't believe in Allah. It says to drive them away, and those that return for conflict must be met with conflict.
Says you! i work in a translation company, and my lead english translator could not easily identify from analysing that quote where we should or shouldn't treat offenders to Islam with kindness. This is simply not acceptable in a religious text! Anyhow, were clearly both stubborn fucks and neither will convince the other. Its been a pleasure to debate. I think we really need a fresh perspective though.
I agree with the basic point. I wouldn't debate the religion with an old man with cancer. But if you are encompassing islam in your defence, then you might want to remember that with it being mysoginistic down to the very tenets of their faith, male muslims are given their hope at the expense of the freedom of their women. Shouldnt their women have hope too? shouldnt islam be challenged always?
Well, I'm not Moslem, but I feel the same towards every religion. I've also spoken with people of the faith and our common ideas about their practices are solely focused on the negatives. Not all of Islam teaches the oppression of women, just as not all of Christianity does.
Well unlike christianity there are infact passages in their holy text citing when and too what extent it is acceptable to beat up your wife! It also forbids the education of women unlike the bible. Were talking very different ball parks here! The Qu'ran is far more insidious! And the oppression of women isnt a select part of the qu'ran its a recurring theme.
I know what the Quran says, but I also pay attention to how it's interpreted. I completely understand the NEGATIVE aspects of Islam, but there is a spectrum to the faithful that follow it. I believe in the individual concept for all religious elements - that's why I don't hold Christianity accountable for the acts of (say) the Westboro Baptist Church.
The qu'ran says "If your wife is acting immodest, you may beat her but not creak her bones or draw blood"
That is not a sentence that can be interpreted in a nice metaphorical sense! Regardless, women in islamic countries have no choice but to be muslim. If they remove their jihab they are beaten! this is slavery!
Leviticus 20:10 "If a man commits adultery with another man's wife, with the wife of his neighbor, both the adulterer and the adulteress must be put to death."
Deuteronomy 22:20-1 "If, however, the charge is true and no proof of the girl's virginity can be found, she shall be brought to the door of her father's house and there the men of her town shall stone her to death."
Exodus 35:2 "For six days, work is to be done, but the seventh day shall be your holy day, a Sabbath of rest to the LORD. Whoever does any work on it must be put to death."
Do you see what i mean then! The bible has 10 overiding commandments that supercede anything else written within it. This guarantees that murder wont be carried out through misinterpretion. Not only is there not this safety net in the qu'ran, they actually use the term "put to death", its unfair to draw parallels with the qu'ran and the bible! they are not the same!
I know there are believers in Islam that follow the quran literally, but there are even more that accept the words of peace & charity instead. JUST LIKE CHRISTIANITY. You get people that use certain quotes for their own benefit, and that's the way it works in most religions.
"Allah has revealed to me that you should adopt humility so that no one oppresses another." (Riyadh-us-Salaheen, Hadith 1589)
It's a contradiction, just as the quotes from the Bible contradict other passages. But the belief, actions & teachings are a spectrum of acceptance. Not everyone uses their religion for hatred.
I completely disagree. The bible CANNOT be interpreted in such a way that it seems ok to kill or steal because the commandments disallow that interpretation. The Qu'ran is a bloody free for all! Its not un-islamic for a muslim to kill someone who disrespects their mother because the Qu'ran gives them that freedom. If they WANT to interpret it that way, they can.
The Bible has been and IS interpreted in that way. What do you think is going on over in Israel ? The Jewish Bible (our old testament) is at war with the Quran because of literal acceptances.
AND Have you even watched the Westboro Baptist Church protest that praises death and hatred ? You're behaving strongly partial to one group and remaining intolerant of another.
If the bible is interpreted that way, then the interpretation is not religiously sound. It is an invalid interpretation taken by some fuckhead, who in all likelyhood is looking for an excuse to start a war with ulterior non religious motives. Such an interpretation is not invalid in the muslim faith which directly states that killing is acceptable. Thats the difference!
The fact remains that the bible, CANNOT be interpreted in such a way that it becomes ok to kill. Anyone who uses christianity to start a war, or justify a killing, is selectively ignoring one of the main tenets of the faith, not misinterpreting it!
You understand how it works for Christianity, YET you stubbornly refuse to understand the same for Islam ?
Talk to people on YouTube that are Moslem. Ask them questions. They will explain to you exactly what you're justifying about the long history of Christian atrocities; That it isn't the true meaning of their faith.
Atrocities such as the crusades were not carried out with religious motivation!
That fact remains, that if you have a muslim who faithfully adheres to every tenet of their religion, and you compare him to a christian who does the same. Murder is a viable option only for the muslim. You are attempting to be politically correct by drawing parallels with both religions. But such parallels cannot be drawn.
The reason such parallels cannot be drawn is that we are discussing the ethical groudings of the religion, not the followers of the religion! Richard the lion heart embarked on a crusade because he was bored and wanted to claim some lands. The twin towers were bombed because the Qu'ran said its ok! (They werent believers)
No, I'm not a PC kind of person. I'm a person that reminds people of balances. Whether a murder is done under the name of Allah or God it is simply murder. Both religious texts preach the act, but it lays to the believer to practice it.
You're generalizing an entire group rather than understanding individuality. The same can be done to Christianty, as I've seen it take place. People murder under the name of God all the time but you believe that isn't the purpose Christianity - People murder under the name of Allah, but a Moslem would tell you that isn't its purpose.
Youre not understanding my point. A murder cannot be carried out in the name of the christian god! This is a categorical fact! anyone who does so, isnt doing it with christian motivation, and if they think they are, then they have a very warped understanding of the bible. They choose to completely disregard the part that sais "THOU SHALT NOT KILL", christianity, the religion, doesnt condone that killing!
On the other hand, the Qu'ran directly tells you under what circumstances a muslim SHOULD kill in the name of his religion. The reader has the OPTION of understanding the word 'put to death' in terms of metaphor! but they also have the OPTION of taking it literally, and through their actions remain a perfect practicioner of muslim faith! Please tell me you understand those differences!
you must see how significant that qualifier at the end is! Its like saying THOU SHALT NOT KILL UNLESS ITS REALLY NECASSARY! you have just highlighted my own point! The qu'ran gives a muslim the ability to interpret what a 'just cause' is for themselves! I think the rising price of Oreos is a just cause! im off to kill the jewish head of that company! Come on pal, be realistic!
The remainder of the texts continue to provide the example. They believe it is justifiable to kill "anyone who murders any person" - sort of like the US Texas Justice System.
What does Christianity do that is "killing", yet not considered a sin ?
Quran - "All beings tremble at punishment. To all, life is dear. Comparing others to oneself, one should neither kill nor cause suffering."
There are Moslems that follow this doctrine, as there are Moslems that follow leaders which teach them to kill for justice. Your wrapping them all into one group.
No, you are once again confused as to the point of this discussion! Im not saying all muslims are arseholes! im saying the islamic faith is open to murderous interpretation and is as a result an incredible dangerous religion to a degree where it is not comparable to christianity (which i am not defending rather than using it to highlight islams failings over it) You are simply trying to be PC mate!
That's the key point isn't it. Who the hell can decide what is and isn't a "just cause"??? Well I'm going to decide that a "just cause" is 'anyone who looks at me in a funny way'. I'm going to go mental with a fork in the office now. Because god told me to do it!
Yes, it definitely falls too the interpretation. Which is a broad spectrum of belief for every religion. The further quotations in the Quran say that justification for killing is when one commits murder. I posted the justifications the Bible teaches which states a death penalty for everything from your daughter not being a virgin at marriage to NOT resting on the Sabbath.
If you found justifications for killing in the bible it would be from the old testement which everyone knows is just a big joke anyway! The bible has changed with the times! there is no passage in the new testement which condones capital punishment so far as im aware! And even if they was, it would be a piss into the wind when judged in comparison to the evil Qu'ran
And even as I've pointed out the similarities and justifications of both religions, you still favor one above the other. All religions can be interpreted to fit whatever definitions people apply to them. Islam is just the same as Christianity in the fact that both interpret crazy contradictions for their own benefit. As much bad as there is in both texts, there's also an element of faith that which only focuses on the positives.
My god.. i wont resort to capitals but i will say you are the most bone headed debatist ive ever met! Let me reiterate the point ive made 7 times. As soon as a 'christian' shoots someone in the face in the name of their religion.. they are no longer a practicing christian as they have just killed. If a muslim shoots someone in the face in the name of their religion, Then they are a perfectly functioning muslim within the dictates of their faith so long as it was 'just cause'
Now i understand your point that people use 'christianity' to justify murder and genocide.. But the difference is, that these people are murderous psychotics and meglomaniacs, and the motivation is never ACTUALLY religious! They cannot do any of those acts, and remain a practicing christian.. its an impossibility because christianity DOES NOT ALLOW THAT INTERPRETATION!
I will again point out, we are discussing the merits of the religion here, not the followers of the religion! Your whole point is that people interpret the bible in murderous ways just like the qu'ran.. My point is that the bible does not allow that interpretation, and the people that take that interpretation do not understand the bible! You can understand the qu'ran perfectly well and you still have the freedom to murder! do youunderstand that point?
If you don't think the Bible can't be interpreted in such a way - that's your own opinion. Moslems will tell you the exact same things; That "those killing & suicide bombing are not real Moslems and that is not Islam" ... and that's what you just don't get. Just because your hatred won't accept that, doesn't justify your claims.
Ok, you are simply incapable of understanding what im saying. I cant be arsed to reiterate for the 8th time. You are incapable of understanding that a murderer cannot be a christian, whereas they can be a muslim. (factually, not how they imagine themselves) You cannot see this distinction because you pride yourself as some kind of atheist spokesperson and dont want to be embarassed. Ill leave you to get on with your thing dude.
You've created an loophole by deeming REAL Christians are not "evil", so any Christian that kills is no longer allowed to call themselves followers of Jesus.
That's exactly how most Moslems speak about Islam; That these terrorist & suicide bombers are not REAL Moslems. But you keep saying "NO THEY CAN'T DO THAT".
YES, youve understood the bit about the christians! WOW. a murderer CANNOT call themselves a christian.. but not the point about muslims! sure you get nice muslims, who frown on people who murder, just because the qu'ran gives them the freedom to do so! but the point is THE QU'RAN GIVES THEM THE FREEDOM TO DO SO! this is why you cannot say the bible is evil to an equal degree! im no christian mind! There is no motive aside from logic behind my point.
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"Oh my FUCK! It's Jesus!" *Faaaaaallllll on your kneeeeeees*
xomiakas 11 months ago
"Oh my FUCK! It's Jesus!" *Faaaaaallllll on your kneeeeeees*
InFlamesAddictive 1 year ago
oldfag detected
analogjedi 1 year ago
Giving false hope to otherwise hopeless people is not a good thing ... It serves as a misdirection for their attention ... Without being blinkered by religion one could better focus on the causes of their hopelessness & rail against it ... That gives a human worth even if they fail ... Stand in absolute defiance of Ragnorok ...
MaitreyaRocket 1 year ago
couldn't have said it better myself
Pucker7 1 year ago
its pronounced GOHR-AHn not KOHRAAN reeeetarddddddd UGH i hate that.
applelemonhead3345 1 year ago
NICE SHIRT
totsmcgoats12 1 year ago
To say religion has good aspects is like saying stabbing someone in the eye is good in the respect that it will free up a parking spot. Religion is guidance toward bigortry, ignorance and separation between them and those other religions. It's a delusion, it would be far better for that person to get off their ass and strive for a change than "hope" thier imaginary friend will take care of everything.
ant1establishment 1 year ago
@ant1establishment Completely agree. I don't know how people can look at books like the bible and quaran and take them seriously. Religious texts, the bible being the biggest one to deal with in the US, are just riddled with hypocrisy. The bible is all about bigotry and teaching hate towards others over petty shit like gender and sexual orientation. I think religion is the driving force behind a lot of this hate, because otherwise, I don't know why itw ould be there or why anyone would care.
pumarunner88 1 year ago
you are a good man
SilverPivotPro555 2 years ago
Wonderful video. What do you think about multiculturalism being forced upon people's?
FreedomIsAfarce 2 years ago
@FreedomIsAfarce It's bullshit. The concept of "diversity" isn't a bad one, but it is to the point where we are all forced into other cultures more than is necessary. I really don't understand what is up with this "you must keep your culture!" shit to people coming to the US these days. No one ever made a huge deal of that during early European/African/Asian immigration, but rather to embrace being an American. They wanted to get out of their stadium, so they can start rooting for their new team
pumarunner88 1 year ago
religion are the one who are trying to covert people even with violance!!!! an atheist doensent do that !!
and dude an atheist /agnostic is ussing sience to proof some facts and you got only your book
In your book is enough shit written that issent true and atheist and agnostics are trying to show you with there evidence your book is wrong so it cant be from a god because god is the creater from everything so he cant made any mistakes you religions people claim
whe only proof your wrong
006kkk 2 years ago
Jesus Himself is atheist!!??..... lol jk
snakesnoozer 2 years ago
I agree that many people get so caught up in organized religion that they are told to share their Faith, so many begin to beat others with their Bible. God is a Spirit and one can only see him through their own spirit, it's a personal relationship that has to be found and nurtured by each person. Reading the Bible show us the way God sees. Many times organized religion can add more baggage that keeps you from seeing the whole Truth. Read Hebrews 11:6
VeniceMale 2 years ago
More sense in four and a half minutes than I've heard from TAA over many videos.
JustineK45 2 years ago
"The fact that a believer is happier than a skeptic is no more to the point than the fact that a drunken man is happier than a sober one." - G.B. Shaw
and i would personally add, that just like being drunk.. being religious can influense your actions.. and extremism is allways dwelling within the texts, waiting for the right sort of person to interpret it. and moderate people will allways provide them with cover by protecting faith itself
Djsouthpaw1987 2 years ago
I hate the Christian hypocrisies of applauding wars - while nodding their heads to words like "tolerance", "peace", "forgiveness".
There are Corporate Churches making a mockery of themselves through profiteering.
But we also have small churches that give their time & money to the community rather than themselves.
Religion influences parts of theist lives in many ways. I think it's fine to point out the negative aspects of anything, but why ignore the positive ?
We can't generalize them.
j0eg0d 2 years ago
The positive affects of witch you speak are in no considerable way restricted to religion in general.. Some of them might be linked to spirituality, but religion has no monopoly on that
i don't mind anyones personal beliefs. But when it affects politics, education, etc, then i do mind. Also hate the way people can launder hate through religion
Religion and superstition poisons the well, in my opinion
Christopher Hitchens answers the points of Religious benefits and charity quite well
Djsouthpaw1987 2 years ago
usually drunks are miserable people....so bad reasoning by George Benard Shahw on that one at least.
Mahmood42978 2 years ago
maybe drunks are.. but "drunken man" refers to anyone indoxicated by alcohol... not just addicts
his reasoning stands =)
Djsouthpaw1987 2 years ago
that was never explicitly stated and in common english colloquial speech it refers to habitual drinkers.
check and mate
Mahmood42978 2 years ago
english is my second language, so maybe you are right. It doesn't change the fact that my definition of his quote, makes it valid, even if the common usage of the word "drunken", would invalidate his analogy
Never mind the fact that you merely asserted that most drunks are unhappy
Djsouthpaw1987 2 years ago
"Religion sometimes gives hope, to people who are hopeless, and that's a good thing."
I think this is a common idea and I'm not going to deny it, I'm sure that faith in certain circumstances can improve a life. The fact that it can, however, has no bearing on whether or not the claims of religion(s) are true. There will always be an amount of dishonesty involved... "yeah it's probably not true, but let them stay ignorant, let them have faith." See what I mean? I'm not sure that's moral either.
Zigiwy 3 years ago 5
people need to have hope in themselves, not a god.
fuckgardengnomes 3 years ago 11
at 2:49, i always say that. It helps people. He wont understand, soon when i get my camera, im going to put videos up explaining all my thoughts. You make very good points
TheAmazlngAtheist 3 years ago
man dont you hate this guy, he gets into ppls minds, and wont mind his atheist mind. and 99% of his speech is "fuck" , his father dies, he still says it in that vid. How pity is he
TheAmazlngAtheist 3 years ago
QURAN: Noble Verses) 109:1-109:6
- Say : O ye that reject Faith!
- I worship not that which ye worship,
- Nor will ye worship that which I worship.
- And I will not worship that which ye have been wont to worship,
- Nor will ye worship that which I worship.
- To you be your Way, and to me mine.
This sums up what we I wanna tell since u respect my choice in believing and I respect yours in not believing.
Peace to you.
8elhaj 3 years ago
I'm kind of leaning towards the Flying Spaghetti Monster theory now it really makes sense. LMAO!
a420truthseeker 3 years ago
Great video, i understand u.
and i agree people have to se all sides of things to understand them.
Peace
8elhaj 3 years ago
Pink Floyd man....
metabog 3 years ago
*sigh*....
JaktheAtheist 3 years ago
lol "why you making me defend this?... jackass"
but i do agree with what this guy is saying though.
ih8thecharts 3 years ago
The problem I find is everyone wants their own idea to be the only possibility. We can not actually prove or disprove God and a belief is only belief. Atheism, whether they like it or not is a religion too and the same problems come from it as the others. All this demanding and hate towards others. Every religion be4 it became religion, in its original form, was a guide and respected others. Greed and politics created modern religions. I agree with your points here.
7Matahari7 3 years ago
Atheism is a religion. so the simple statement ' i do not believe in god' causes you t ogive alms to the poor, visit Richard Dawkin's house at least once in your lifetime and read the God delusion five times a day (can't remember the other 2 off the top of my head)- its a simple statement. not religion. as for politics- im sure some guy claiming to be prophet of god and waging a war agaisnt the unbelievers has everything to do with modern politics. right.
davidlong211 3 years ago
Saying Atheism is a religion is both idiotic and insulting. Atheism does not have an organized system of beliefs, nor does it have a church. Atheism is the rejection of a deity and religion, how you can derive it to be a religion out of that makes no sense.
Mezc0 3 years ago
You missed the point entirely... It is treated as a religious preference, regardless of whether it actually is or isn't an established religion by definition. When someone asks you what religion you are, what is your typical answer? It's probably somwhere along the lines of "Oh, I'm an atheist." Basically our society approaches atheism the same way it approaches any other system of beliefs; it socially categorizes you based on your particular preference. That's just the way things are.
Lawlzerskatez 3 years ago
If someone asks me what religion I adhere to, of course I'd say I am an atheist. BUT, that doesn't make it a religion. Heres an example:If someone asks me, what's your favorite type of meat to eat? I would reply, I'm a vegetarian, meaning I disfavor all meats in general. And of course we are socially categorized because we are atheists, but that still doesn't make it a religion. Btw, my previous post wasn't addressing the video, it was a reply to Davidong221's comment
Mezc0 3 years ago
"Atheism, whether they like it or not is a religion too"
Atheists do not believe in a god, so how can atheism be a religion? You may as well say that not collecting stamps is a hobby, or not playing football is a sport.
JimShadyUK 3 years ago
brushing your teeth is religion if it is a regular practice. "Sociologists and anthropologists tend to see religion as an abstract set of ideas, values, or experiences developed as part of a cultural matrix. For example, in Lindbeck's Nature of Doctrine, religion does not refer to belief in "God" or a transcendent Absolute. Instead, Lindbeck defines religion as, "a kind of cultural and/or linguistic framework or medium that shapes the entirety of life and thought..."
7Matahari7 3 years ago
Religion.
a set of beliefs concerning the cause, nature, and purpose of the universe, esp. when considered as the creation of a superhuman agency or agencies, usually involving devotional and ritual observances, and often containing a moral code governing the conduct of human affairs.
The last part doesn't apply however it says especially. The first part applies. Atheists still try to find the cause and purpose of the universe.
So yes Atheism is a religion. Not your normal religion, but it is.
HIIMYOUTOOB 3 years ago
Theism is a belief in a deity. Atheism is a LACK of belief in a deity. Saying to someone "You are religious because you don't believe in a god" is incorrect.
JimShadyUK 3 years ago
I guess my Webster has more definitions of the word religion than yours does. If I said an atheist was a theist, I would be wrong, saying an atheist is religious is correct, in almost all cases, because almost all atheist have a set of beliefs concerning the cause, nature and purpose of the universe.
If someone believes nothing at all and says there was no cause, nature or purpose of the universe then calling them religious would be wrong.
HIIMYOUTOOB 3 years ago
Now you're just playing with semantics. I'm talking about religion in terms of God. You're invoking the alternative definition of belief in something without reference to God (ie sports is a religion to some people).
It's a rather childish form of debate - "you said religion, but I've found another meaning for the word and I'm going to pretend I meant that all along."
JimShadyUK 3 years ago
It's actually what I meant all along, now your calling me childish? You're the one who's misusing a word. Atheism is a religion, 99% of the time at least, because almost all atheists believe in some cause for why we got here.
If you do not have any reasoning or ideas as to why human beings are here, or how they got here, then fine you have no religion, otherwise you have a religion.
HIIMYOUTOOB 3 years ago
I think humans came about through evolution by natural selection. As there is shedloads of evidence for that, it's not a religion because it doesn't depend on faith.
If you're asking about my ideas for WHY we're here in terms of a higher purpose for our existence beyond gene survival, I don't believe our existence has a higher purpose than any other living creature. There's no evidence to support a higher purpose, so I don't believe in one - and non-belief isn't a religion.
JimShadyUK 3 years ago
If you have no confidence or trust in your ideas then why do you defend them? For the fun of it? I'm pretty sure you have some faith in your belief or else you wouldn't be speaking right now.
HIIMYOUTOOB 3 years ago
I dont think my other post showed up, but you do have a religion, you believe in something, and you have a reason why you are here. And I defined the word faith which you also have.
Faith-confidence or trust in a person or thing:
An idea is a thing, you have confidence or trust in your idea, you have faith.
The only way to not have a religion is to not ponder questions like why are you here or why did you get here.
HIIMYOUTOOB 3 years ago
Yes, I do have a reason why I am here - my mum gave birth to me. I am here, and the universe does exist - so neither my or the universe's existence is a matter of faith. As to why, I don't think there is a specific purpose for me being here or the universe existing. I have no evidence for there being a purpose to life or the universe, so I don't have a belief about it. As I have no belief about it, I have no religion about either. Atheism is LACK OF BELIEF - it's not a religion.
JimShadyUK 3 years ago
Then why do you defend it? You believe in your lack of belief as I told the other guy, you lack of belief is your belief.
Thats what works for you fine, that is your belief, you still believe in something. Total lack of belief means you do not think at all, and I'm pretty sure most atheists think.
HIIMYOUTOOB 3 years ago
In the context of this video, I consider religious beliefs to be about God - it's irrelevant to start going on about other definitions of "religion" when they have nothing to do with the topic in question. Total lack of belief doesn't mean I don't think at all - it means I have thought about the subject deeply and concluded that I don't believe there is a supernatural creator of, or purpose for, the Universe. The only "faith" I have is that my reasoning (no evidence of a creator) is sound.
JimShadyUK 3 years ago
In terms of an actual God, no atheism is not a religion under the theistic definition, however it is a religion if you are using the definition I was yes. It is not a religion with a deity, a higher power, or any supernatural ideas, like a soul or afterlife.
But it still takes faith to be an atheist, I'm pretty sure most atheists will tell you they are correct, and in many areas endure prosecution, but still belief their belief, not someones else's.
HIIMYOUTOOB 3 years ago
It doesn't take faith to be an atheist. I was born an atheist, as were you. However, you have chosen to believe there is a supernatural creator of the Universe for whatever reasons, whereas I don't believe there is because there isn't a scrap of evidence to support such an idea.
Which particular god do you believe in, by the way?
JimShadyUK 3 years ago
I'm a Christian, and it may not take "faith" as the word is commonly used, however it is still your though process toward philosophical questions, no one was born atheist, or Christian, we were all born ignorant.
And yeah I think there is enough evidence out there to believe, but thats me, I don't wanna persuade you however, because well its best if
people are individuals and not robots, I don't want a 100% Christian world or 100% Atheist world, I want a free world. Where everyones diverse.
HIIMYOUTOOB 3 years ago
Of course everyone is born atheist. For the umpteenth time, atheism is a LACK OF BELIEF in God. How can you believe in something you've never heard of? For the record, most atheists don't believe there is no God - they have a lack of belief that there is a God. There is a difference if you think about it.
Why is it so hard for you to understand that atheism is a lack of belief in God? It's a simple and straighforward definition that doesn't postulate an alternate theory.
JimShadyUK 3 years ago
To JimShadyUK
actually Muslims beleive everybody gets born muslim, if u put a baby by himself for 20 years without outside influance he will have a sense of a higher being that governs everything around him. they beleive that people revert to islam and not convert since they were influanced my people or media to stop believing in One GOD.
so ur argument doesnt hold plus there is way we can verify if a baby is born Muslim or Atheist or christian or ignorant. we simply cannot yet, maybe one day
8elhaj 3 years ago
If you believe everyone is born a Muslim, then that explains why people of other faiths (or no faith) are viewed as legitimate targets - we're all apostates, and we know what the penalty for that is in Islam.
Common sense dictates that you can't be born a believer in anything. Muslim belief on the subject is without any foundation - you just believe for dogma's sake, so my argument holds perfectly.
JimShadyUK 3 years ago
a guess ur common sense is not same as mine, nor is it the same as 1.5 billion people in the world
nor is it the same as many other people
talk for ur self man, saying ur 'common ssense' makes perfect sense is arrogant and a perfect example of someone lost in the darkness of his own ignorance.
ppeace
8elhaj 3 years ago
My common sense does appear to differ from 1.5 billion people in the world - it doesn't necessarily mean I'm wrong.
You talk about Muslims beliefs, and then you say that there is no way to verify whether babies are born as believers or atheists. I'm saying babies aren't born with beliefs because there hasn't been one single documented case of it happening - and how would you show it anyway? If you've got some way to prove it other than by assertion of faith, I'd love to hear about it.
JimShadyUK 3 years ago
my friend, i just told u that we can not prove either they have a belief or not have one when they are babies. maybe u should be the first one to test that, but i doubt a parent will let isolate their baby for 10 years. i believe what i believe and u believe what u believe. So in the end only in ur death will u be certain about which belief is right and which is wrong, cause logically one has to be wrong and the other right.
But waiting till death is probably unwise since it will be too late.
8elhaj 3 years ago
You're in a trickier position than me though. There have been around 10,000 gods worshipped throughout human history. Suppose one of the other ones was responsible for everything? I would tell him I didn't believe in any god because of lack of evidence. You would tell him that not only did you not believe in him, but you actively worshipped another god instead. What's worse - someone who has nothing to do with you, or someone who is active against you? You have far more to lose than I do.
JimShadyUK 3 years ago
OMG brother u didnt listen i word i said.
ACCORDING TO MUSLIMS AND THE QURAN ALL THE RELIGIONS WERE FROM A PROPHET FROM THE ONE ONLY GOD BUT GOT DISTORTED WITH TIME.
thats why those 100000 GODS you are talking about are actually only one. it's like the christians when they say GOD is 3.
thats because they deviated from the message of JESUS. there is no where in the bible where there is the trinity.
So actually the other gods are humman made while in the end there is only ONE ONLY GOD.
peace
8elhaj 3 years ago
Okay - so are you saying that all the other gods that people used to worship - even those thousands of years ago - were actually Allah, but people got his name wrong?
"ACCORDING TO MUSLIMS AND THE QURAN ALL THE RELIGIONS WERE FROM A PROPHET FROM THE ONE ONLY GOD BUT GOT DISTORTED WITH TIME."
That's jolly convenient for Islam - claiming every object of worship ever. However, it's not really compelling evidence - especially if you don't think the Quran has any basis in factual history.
JimShadyUK 3 years ago
8elhaj
You could look up the history & mythology of "El Yon" (and his seven sons) One of which was named Allah, another came to be known as Zeus as well as various other Greek interpretations.
There's also an incredible history on monotheism to review - that highlights the myths read today in the Quran, Hebrew Bible, the Christian Bible, etc
Today's religious texts all come from much older mythologies; most importantly centuries of oral history that would eventually be written into Hebrew.
j0eg0d 3 years ago
my friend i think u still dont understand what im saying. first of all who said that what QURAN contains is myth?? where u there. same reason i cant tell "hey it right 100% because i was there" u cant either. and ur talking about historical review ur saying... from which source? the QURAN and the bible themselves are historical sources but which one to belive if they contradict the other? do i believe the one which has multiple version in its original language and contradicts itself. or
8elhaj 3 years ago
or do i believe in a book that has no difference in its original language? and this is historical facts because we can check their validity NOW.
other than that any historical source in an ancient book is doomed to change because people change alil bit the stories and after centuries huge changes accure and thats why we see variation within the same scripture but we got ONE book that has NO diffrence in its original language of Arabic which is the QURAN.
ok plz explain why logically.
8elhaj 3 years ago
We know the history of religions by the history that came before it. Today's monotheism comes from a Phoenician history connected to the source that we know as El or El-Yon.
Ancient tribal wars caused some of El's sons (like Zeus or Baal) to be named "false gods", yet other sons (like Allah or Yahweh) became the "one true god".
Also - Just because something is written down does not make it truth. You only need to look at what was there before to understand the history of how it came to be.
j0eg0d 3 years ago
here is where ur logic fails:
u said if something is written doest not mean it is true. i agree with u. thats why i am asking you how are u so sure that the knowledge of history you are talking about now is true? if ur telling me that u believe it because u did research/read about it then ur contradictory since u said not everything is written is right.
also, historians give sources more credibility if there is less variation in them.
in that case Qur'an is the most credible source of history.
8elhaj 3 years ago
Religious texts can be traced back to Phoenician history & art. Archeologists are still discovery more scrolls & writings. One recently depicting the mythology of the virgin birth and sacrificial savior ages before the Hebrew Bible was translated from Phoenician texts.
The Quran, I applaud it, it has remained true to it's original writing, but it's also translated from centuries of ORAL history. You can't believe that what was eventually written down is exactly the same as the old folklore.
j0eg0d 3 years ago
Okay u just agreed. thats good.
second: who r u to say that what's in the Qur'an is folklore. i will explain: in the beginning of this conversation i said that in Islam everybody is Muslim. in the Muslim tradition there we thousands of Prophets sent to different people. That's why a knowledgeable scholar of Islam wont insult Buddha, Ismail, Jesus... etc bc in the Quran GOD said that HE didnt tell us all the Prophets he sent. which means that Buddha and all the sources of ANY religion ....
8elhaj 3 years ago
could have came originally from the ONE GOD. A good proof of this is Prophet Jesus(pbuh): in the Muslim tradition(and if u check the Bible) Jesus never claimed divinity. and said that he submitted to THE ONE GOD. but people took him as a GOD bc he worked miracles. this might've been the same case with Buddha, Zeus or any other Prophet till Adam. this means that any "folklore" could have had originally came from the same GOD but the message got distorted.
(...)
8elhaj 3 years ago
a good proof is that some sects around Islam take Prophet Muhammad as GOD. Some sects within the Shiites also take Ali(the cousin of Muhammad pbuh) as divine. like Christians take Jesus as GOD in flesh. So if these sects, distort the teachings of Islam and do something completely different, does that discredit the QURAN? or make it like if it's actually the opposite and that it's the Quran that came from those sects? no it wont. people distort messages.
(...)
8elhaj 3 years ago
thats why GOD protected the QURAN. thats why there is only ONE QURAN in Arabic. could that be a coincidence? ofcourse u can say it is and u can beg to differ but that doesnt make what i believe folklore or had an origin from something completely different since in the QURAN it is said that thousands of prophets before has the same message of submitting to the ONE GOD.
If u read the Bible (Jewish and Christian) u will see that Jesus, Abraham, Ismael and all the Prophet submit to the will of GOD.
8elhaj 3 years ago
Muhammad preached from an oral tradition that connects every other monotheistic belief. But living in 600AD, even Muhammad wouldn't be privy to the original source which dates back to (before) 1400BC.
There was El-Yon and his 7 sons, one of which was YHWH (Yahweh). The Quran shows that Allah (Arabic) is Yahweh (Hebrew), the same "God" that made the covenant with Abraham.
I call it "folklore", you can call it whatever you want.
j0eg0d 3 years ago
Atheism is not a belief you moron. Is it the DISBELIEF.. Damn, how hard can it be to remember that!?
sounynoma 3 years ago
Isnt belief in the disbelief belief?
HIIMYOUTOOB 3 years ago
Wait, youre not listening. Atheism is believing in nothing. So it means no belief at all. And no belief at all literally means no belief at all
sounynoma 3 years ago
The belief is nothing is a belief though, the only way you can truly believe in nothing is to not think at all, and I think that is what you want to pass off as an argument.
You have never done a science project ever? So I guess that if you believe in nothing evolution and the big bang they're all wrong too right?
If there is no point to living then why haven't you commited suicide? You must believe in survival or family or something.
HIIMYOUTOOB 3 years ago
"the only way you can truly believe in nothing is to not think at all" - Or to have thought hard and weighed up the evidence.
"I guess that if you believe in nothing evolution and the big bang they're all wrong too right?" - Evolution is an observed scientific fact, and there is evidence to support the Big Bang theory - not conclusive, but enough to make it plausible.
"If there is no point to living then why haven't you commited suicide?" - Why would I need a point? I'm alive and it's fun!
JimShadyUK 3 years ago
So you believe in the theory of evolution and the big bang theory, (which btw I do too, they're both plausible and don't contradict my understanding of the Bible.) but you believe in nothing, you believe in science right? You believe you can talk, that is what I am saying when I say to truly believe nothing is to not think at all. However from a supernatural standpoint sure you don't believe, but that doesn't make atheism belief in nothing, it just means nothing supernatural.
HIIMYOUTOOB 3 years ago
Yoo know darn well that with no belief i mean no belief in a supernatural being
sounynoma 3 years ago
yes, but there still is a belief there.
HIIMYOUTOOB 3 years ago
There is no belief, you moron.. I could literally kill you now over your ignorance.. I wont continue this discussion because this is getting nowhere
sounynoma 3 years ago
lol, hopeless.
flyDEVIL 3 years ago
Some people NEED these beliefs? I have always doubted such an assumption. Is there anything showing a consistent trend proving that statement? I mean it is really fucking interesting how almost every society in the known history of man formulated a deity or a set of deities.... but that doesn't prove the assumption. At some point man evolved a brain capable of comprehending his own mortality. This i think spawned religion and with religion came its benefits and in the modern world its flaws.
zachypoop 3 years ago
The oldest beliefs that evoked a god-worship "spawned" from the fears of thunderstorms, lightning, volcanoes, hurricanes, floods and "sure" our own mortality.
It was a bunch of clever monkeys pooping in their caves trying to figure out what the hell was going on around them.
Their little brains assumed that such things could only come from animals bigger than themselves ... eventually deciding it could only come from people bigger than themselves (giants), and soon it became god(s).
j0eg0d 3 years ago
I understand their fear, I understand how powerful it can be and I understand what would happen if their comfort was pulled away from them.
j0eg0d 3 years ago
this is a healthy fuckin point of view right here
letsbereasonable12 3 years ago 2
For an agnostic, you have a pretty good grasp on free will. A couple of points. One, some people do kill, and some that do think it's ok, so clearly there needs to be a law. By nature, people are going to do wrong. As for some needing religion, that's true, but there is a difference between religion (a practice) and a relationship with Jesus, which is what true Christians have. I know, I know, you don't believe. But in Jesus there IS hope, and there IS peace. He loves you, you know.
LadyGreenEyes964 3 years ago
some of the points I've made, is being placed as spam..and I got responses tht non-muslims agrees to my points..wht he is sayin is completely wrong..he is only twisting things to make it look like he is very inteligent..and u can make a person believe lot of things, by giving a personal well thought out translation..its not tht hard..its just funny to me to see guys responding so surely to his video, when I'm sure they have NO IDEA wht he is talkin abt..
hazelblue84 3 years ago
I'm Muslim and I commented on tht video like thousands of times..and its amazing how people loves to hate Muslims..Its like we are a disease..but whts more sad is that Muhammed peace be upon him respect Jesus and even mentions Jesus as another Prophet in the Q'uran..thts the level of respect the Q'uran given to Jesus..but I see Christians curse me out and completely being the monster tht he claims the Muslims are..u knw, Its so funny to see hypocrites debate..
hazelblue84 3 years ago
Yes, Muhammed mentions Jesus. The best lies always include partial truths.....
supertrue 3 years ago
I am not surprised if there are atheists or agnostics for that matter. God has foretold thousands of years ago in Psalms 14 that people would deny Him. This is a proof that there is a God, the only one who knows and tells the future accurately. why can't you believe in God? you are surrounded by the works of the Creator. If you see a house in the forest, you think someone built it. All the more you should believe in God for the existence of the universe, animals, plants,seas, mountains and men.
LukP01 3 years ago
"if it's there it must have been created"
You get the same thinking from people that believe we're an alien experiment.
That everything is so "intelligently designed" that it's obvious a more advanced species made this.
They've simply replaced a god for alien technology and used your same argument to prove themselves.
So you may as well ask me, "Why can't you believe in aliens" ?
j0eg0d 3 years ago
And dinosaur bones found in the earth is some kind of toy "god" has made for us? and all the scientific evidence of the earth being bilions of years old are just nonesense? All religion is fake, and a way too soothe the poor and pardon violence and atrosities... get a grip freak
Khaydarian 3 years ago
Religious people have a lower IQ than atheists. So no surprise here.
CyrusGuitar 3 years ago
TJ & I are both atheists, Speedy.
j0eg0d 3 years ago
mmm nice job. u seem like a very relaxed person. u must take in all sides of the stories i presume? its nice to see someone who doesnt get as "into ot" as others. i hope to actually start joinin along with u and amazingatheist by replying to ur vids with some of my own. but no camera yet :\ im sure we can all agree on one thing... religion is MODERN BRAINWASHING. of course ull want ur kids to also believe in them. so u will raise them to. they will have no choice in the matter.
Stonedanimal 3 years ago
i agree with what you have said sir, its nice to hear your response.
AnimeTalk 4 years ago
wow.
you're wrong.
in every way.
br1yeathatsme 4 years ago
No, the reason America can't overcome its fear of the countries you mentioned is because the countries you mentioned can't overcome their unconditional insatiable hatred of the West. That's all there is to it.
Scorpiochess 4 years ago
He sounded smart then he went off a tanjent.lol
jas03000 4 years ago
Lol! Matter cannot be created or destroyed. By tearing down religion yoru creating something new! You can't destroy something you simply make it something. Lol.
Tytsjerksteradiel 4 years ago
Holy shit you look like gomer pyles from Full Metal Jacket.
StressTestPictures 4 years ago
Smart talking man, good work!!!
KorakjaTarzan 4 years ago
Lol. The amazing atheist!!! If you took the vulgar words out of His Videos He would be saying nothing new. I like what you said here. Although on a personal level, I do not need religion in my life,,,LOL. I need the Creator of all things to lead me in this life. Blessings chase you down,,Granmama, Carol
qswfeh2121 4 years ago
I'd assume most of his dislike is the bi-product of "Corporate Religion" forcing doctrines into every aspect of society ... which I completely understand.
He's generalized every aspect of religion as negative (for whatever reason) and I really don't think he gets just how much he's allowing "that-which-he-hates" to manipulate his own life.
j0eg0d 4 years ago
Hes young, sometimes it takes awhile to reach out in love rather than hate. Forgiveness is hard to receive when you look in people rather than the heart of the Creator. The only thing i want to be controlled by is the kindness of the Holy Spirit of God, all these years and the only hope is still in The maker of us all. Lovingly, Granmama, Carol
qswfeh2121 4 years ago
Asking a man to find love & forgiveness with something they think is a lie, is asking too much.
I don't know if you could honestly see what's it's like from an atheist's viewpoint, but I'd tell you it's important to have empathy with anyone that disagrees with you.
We live in that world which not only demands you accept popular truth, but dictates you're ignorant for not - To not conform, can be a lonely frustrating road.
j0eg0d 4 years ago
youre a good man dude
danglycrossearring 4 years ago
Ignorance plus hatred make people dangerous
Are you talking from your jail cel?
We need to keep you locked in...You are a danger to yourself and to society...
aalrubyoutub 4 years ago
Yes; yes, I believe that there should be an enforced law prohibiting killing.
abortedsoul 4 years ago
I really like ice cream.
TheArnazingAtheist 4 years ago 3
Hey I like ice cream too!
aries066 4 years ago 2
Peobably nothing to do with religions, just beliefs and bad habbits..people go against rather than unite..
The people on the bottom have a good point some people are still racist.
wofwaf 4 years ago
religion is the root of all evil. just think how much of a nicer place the world would be without it. lets face it - books like the bible were written to keep people in check n later they have just took it way too far!!
goodtimesnweed 4 years ago
And lets not gloss over the fact you cited an example quote from the qu'ran which exhibited the first octaple negative ive ever seen in defense of the justness of that religious text! So far as im concerned, your own quote has just defeated you in this debate! My point is that the qu'ran is more prone to dodgy/evil interpretation, then you provide a quote with an octaple negative.. I think we need a third party to start contributing now if you persist in being the devils advocate.
mrevilpants 4 years ago
The text is about returning in kind. Like currently, with countries that are warring against them, because those countries & citizens see Islam as "evil".
It's saying that it's okay to retaliate or claim jihad. The declaration of a "Jihad" is the decision that determines if a current conflict is about religion.
The Quran does not tell them to kill JUST BECAUSE they don't believe in Allah. It says to drive them away, and those that return for conflict must be met with conflict.
j0eg0d 4 years ago
Says you! i work in a translation company, and my lead english translator could not easily identify from analysing that quote where we should or shouldn't treat offenders to Islam with kindness. This is simply not acceptable in a religious text! Anyhow, were clearly both stubborn fucks and neither will convince the other. Its been a pleasure to debate. I think we really need a fresh perspective though.
mrevilpants 4 years ago
The same here. I need to get back to my political videos.
j0eg0d 4 years ago
But indeed yes i agree we should end this.. i guess it all depends now on whos big enough to let the other get the last word in! ha ha.
mrevilpants 4 years ago
I can stubborn, but I'm not that stubborn.
j0eg0d 4 years ago
I agree with the basic point. I wouldn't debate the religion with an old man with cancer. But if you are encompassing islam in your defence, then you might want to remember that with it being mysoginistic down to the very tenets of their faith, male muslims are given their hope at the expense of the freedom of their women. Shouldnt their women have hope too? shouldnt islam be challenged always?
mrevilpants 4 years ago
Well, I'm not Moslem, but I feel the same towards every religion. I've also spoken with people of the faith and our common ideas about their practices are solely focused on the negatives. Not all of Islam teaches the oppression of women, just as not all of Christianity does.
j0eg0d 4 years ago
Well unlike christianity there are infact passages in their holy text citing when and too what extent it is acceptable to beat up your wife! It also forbids the education of women unlike the bible. Were talking very different ball parks here! The Qu'ran is far more insidious! And the oppression of women isnt a select part of the qu'ran its a recurring theme.
mrevilpants 4 years ago
I know what the Quran says, but I also pay attention to how it's interpreted. I completely understand the NEGATIVE aspects of Islam, but there is a spectrum to the faithful that follow it. I believe in the individual concept for all religious elements - that's why I don't hold Christianity accountable for the acts of (say) the Westboro Baptist Church.
j0eg0d 4 years ago
The qu'ran says "If your wife is acting immodest, you may beat her but not creak her bones or draw blood"
That is not a sentence that can be interpreted in a nice metaphorical sense! Regardless, women in islamic countries have no choice but to be muslim. If they remove their jihab they are beaten! this is slavery!
mrevilpants 4 years ago
Leviticus 20:10 "If a man commits adultery with another man's wife, with the wife of his neighbor, both the adulterer and the adulteress must be put to death."
j0eg0d 4 years ago
Deuteronomy 22:20-1 "If, however, the charge is true and no proof of the girl's virginity can be found, she shall be brought to the door of her father's house and there the men of her town shall stone her to death."
j0eg0d 4 years ago
Exodus 35:2 "For six days, work is to be done, but the seventh day shall be your holy day, a Sabbath of rest to the LORD. Whoever does any work on it must be put to death."
j0eg0d 4 years ago
Leviticus 20:9 "If anyone curses his father or mother, he must be put to death."
j0eg0d 4 years ago
Do you see what i mean then! The bible has 10 overiding commandments that supercede anything else written within it. This guarantees that murder wont be carried out through misinterpretion. Not only is there not this safety net in the qu'ran, they actually use the term "put to death", its unfair to draw parallels with the qu'ran and the bible! they are not the same!
mrevilpants 4 years ago
I know there are believers in Islam that follow the quran literally, but there are even more that accept the words of peace & charity instead. JUST LIKE CHRISTIANITY. You get people that use certain quotes for their own benefit, and that's the way it works in most religions.
j0eg0d 4 years ago
"Allah has revealed to me that you should adopt humility so that no one oppresses another." (Riyadh-us-Salaheen, Hadith 1589)
It's a contradiction, just as the quotes from the Bible contradict other passages. But the belief, actions & teachings are a spectrum of acceptance. Not everyone uses their religion for hatred.
j0eg0d 4 years ago
I completely disagree. The bible CANNOT be interpreted in such a way that it seems ok to kill or steal because the commandments disallow that interpretation. The Qu'ran is a bloody free for all! Its not un-islamic for a muslim to kill someone who disrespects their mother because the Qu'ran gives them that freedom. If they WANT to interpret it that way, they can.
mrevilpants 4 years ago
The Bible has been and IS interpreted in that way. What do you think is going on over in Israel ? The Jewish Bible (our old testament) is at war with the Quran because of literal acceptances.
AND Have you even watched the Westboro Baptist Church protest that praises death and hatred ? You're behaving strongly partial to one group and remaining intolerant of another.
j0eg0d 4 years ago
If the bible is interpreted that way, then the interpretation is not religiously sound. It is an invalid interpretation taken by some fuckhead, who in all likelyhood is looking for an excuse to start a war with ulterior non religious motives. Such an interpretation is not invalid in the muslim faith which directly states that killing is acceptable. Thats the difference!
mrevilpants 4 years ago
The fact remains that the bible, CANNOT be interpreted in such a way that it becomes ok to kill. Anyone who uses christianity to start a war, or justify a killing, is selectively ignoring one of the main tenets of the faith, not misinterpreting it!
mrevilpants 4 years ago
You understand how it works for Christianity, YET you stubbornly refuse to understand the same for Islam ?
Talk to people on YouTube that are Moslem. Ask them questions. They will explain to you exactly what you're justifying about the long history of Christian atrocities; That it isn't the true meaning of their faith.
j0eg0d 4 years ago
Atrocities such as the crusades were not carried out with religious motivation!
That fact remains, that if you have a muslim who faithfully adheres to every tenet of their religion, and you compare him to a christian who does the same. Murder is a viable option only for the muslim. You are attempting to be politically correct by drawing parallels with both religions. But such parallels cannot be drawn.
mrevilpants 4 years ago
The reason such parallels cannot be drawn is that we are discussing the ethical groudings of the religion, not the followers of the religion! Richard the lion heart embarked on a crusade because he was bored and wanted to claim some lands. The twin towers were bombed because the Qu'ran said its ok! (They werent believers)
mrevilpants 4 years ago
No, I'm not a PC kind of person. I'm a person that reminds people of balances. Whether a murder is done under the name of Allah or God it is simply murder. Both religious texts preach the act, but it lays to the believer to practice it.
j0eg0d 4 years ago
You're generalizing an entire group rather than understanding individuality. The same can be done to Christianty, as I've seen it take place. People murder under the name of God all the time but you believe that isn't the purpose Christianity - People murder under the name of Allah, but a Moslem would tell you that isn't its purpose.
j0eg0d 4 years ago
Youre not understanding my point. A murder cannot be carried out in the name of the christian god! This is a categorical fact! anyone who does so, isnt doing it with christian motivation, and if they think they are, then they have a very warped understanding of the bible. They choose to completely disregard the part that sais "THOU SHALT NOT KILL", christianity, the religion, doesnt condone that killing!
mrevilpants 4 years ago
On the other hand, the Qu'ran directly tells you under what circumstances a muslim SHOULD kill in the name of his religion. The reader has the OPTION of understanding the word 'put to death' in terms of metaphor! but they also have the OPTION of taking it literally, and through their actions remain a perfect practicioner of muslim faith! Please tell me you understand those differences!
mrevilpants 4 years ago
I understand your point and I'm trying to change your opinion. Read the 38 Commandments of the Quran. The 10 Commandments of the Bible are included.
"Nor take life - which Allah has made sacred - except for just cause."
j0eg0d 4 years ago
you must see how significant that qualifier at the end is! Its like saying THOU SHALT NOT KILL UNLESS ITS REALLY NECASSARY! you have just highlighted my own point! The qu'ran gives a muslim the ability to interpret what a 'just cause' is for themselves! I think the rising price of Oreos is a just cause! im off to kill the jewish head of that company! Come on pal, be realistic!
mrevilpants 4 years ago
The remainder of the texts continue to provide the example. They believe it is justifiable to kill "anyone who murders any person" - sort of like the US Texas Justice System.
What does Christianity do that is "killing", yet not considered a sin ?
j0eg0d 4 years ago
Quran - "All beings tremble at punishment. To all, life is dear. Comparing others to oneself, one should neither kill nor cause suffering."
There are Moslems that follow this doctrine, as there are Moslems that follow leaders which teach them to kill for justice. Your wrapping them all into one group.
j0eg0d 4 years ago
No, you are once again confused as to the point of this discussion! Im not saying all muslims are arseholes! im saying the islamic faith is open to murderous interpretation and is as a result an incredible dangerous religion to a degree where it is not comparable to christianity (which i am not defending rather than using it to highlight islams failings over it) You are simply trying to be PC mate!
mrevilpants 4 years ago
All religions are open to insidious interpretations and you're privy to only a short-sighted portion of Islam.
You have chosen to look at the negatives of one religion and I tried to create an example which places you in their shoes.
j0eg0d 4 years ago
The transgressions borne of Wrath (a sin) are among the most serious, including murder, assault, and in extreme cases, genocide.
mrevilpants 4 years ago
All of which Christianity has done too because of biblical interpretations. Yet you still justify that religious text while you demonize another.
j0eg0d 4 years ago
That's the key point isn't it. Who the hell can decide what is and isn't a "just cause"??? Well I'm going to decide that a "just cause" is 'anyone who looks at me in a funny way'. I'm going to go mental with a fork in the office now. Because god told me to do it!
janai1 4 years ago
Yes, it definitely falls too the interpretation. Which is a broad spectrum of belief for every religion. The further quotations in the Quran say that justification for killing is when one commits murder. I posted the justifications the Bible teaches which states a death penalty for everything from your daughter not being a virgin at marriage to NOT resting on the Sabbath.
j0eg0d 4 years ago
If you found justifications for killing in the bible it would be from the old testement which everyone knows is just a big joke anyway! The bible has changed with the times! there is no passage in the new testement which condones capital punishment so far as im aware! And even if they was, it would be a piss into the wind when judged in comparison to the evil Qu'ran
mrevilpants 4 years ago
And even as I've pointed out the similarities and justifications of both religions, you still favor one above the other. All religions can be interpreted to fit whatever definitions people apply to them. Islam is just the same as Christianity in the fact that both interpret crazy contradictions for their own benefit. As much bad as there is in both texts, there's also an element of faith that which only focuses on the positives.
j0eg0d 4 years ago
My god.. i wont resort to capitals but i will say you are the most bone headed debatist ive ever met! Let me reiterate the point ive made 7 times. As soon as a 'christian' shoots someone in the face in the name of their religion.. they are no longer a practicing christian as they have just killed. If a muslim shoots someone in the face in the name of their religion, Then they are a perfectly functioning muslim within the dictates of their faith so long as it was 'just cause'
mrevilpants 4 years ago
Now i understand your point that people use 'christianity' to justify murder and genocide.. But the difference is, that these people are murderous psychotics and meglomaniacs, and the motivation is never ACTUALLY religious! They cannot do any of those acts, and remain a practicing christian.. its an impossibility because christianity DOES NOT ALLOW THAT INTERPRETATION!
mrevilpants 4 years ago
I will again point out, we are discussing the merits of the religion here, not the followers of the religion! Your whole point is that people interpret the bible in murderous ways just like the qu'ran.. My point is that the bible does not allow that interpretation, and the people that take that interpretation do not understand the bible! You can understand the qu'ran perfectly well and you still have the freedom to murder! do youunderstand that point?
mrevilpants 4 years ago
If you don't think the Bible can't be interpreted in such a way - that's your own opinion. Moslems will tell you the exact same things; That "those killing & suicide bombing are not real Moslems and that is not Islam" ... and that's what you just don't get. Just because your hatred won't accept that, doesn't justify your claims.
j0eg0d 4 years ago
Ok, you are simply incapable of understanding what im saying. I cant be arsed to reiterate for the 8th time. You are incapable of understanding that a murderer cannot be a christian, whereas they can be a muslim. (factually, not how they imagine themselves) You cannot see this distinction because you pride yourself as some kind of atheist spokesperson and dont want to be embarassed. Ill leave you to get on with your thing dude.
mrevilpants 4 years ago
You've created an loophole by deeming REAL Christians are not "evil", so any Christian that kills is no longer allowed to call themselves followers of Jesus.
That's exactly how most Moslems speak about Islam; That these terrorist & suicide bombers are not REAL Moslems. But you keep saying "NO THEY CAN'T DO THAT".
You honestly don't see how ridiculous that is ?
j0eg0d 4 years ago
YES, youve understood the bit about the christians! WOW. a murderer CANNOT call themselves a christian.. but not the point about muslims! sure you get nice muslims, who frown on people who murder, just because the qu'ran gives them the freedom to do so! but the point is THE QU'RAN GIVES THEM THE FREEDOM TO DO SO! this is why you cannot say the bible is evil to an equal degree! im no christian mind! There is no motive aside from logic behind my point.
mrevilpants 4 years ago