Maynard's Revenge: Keynesianism and the Crisis

[honjo294]

and there for no longer have monopoly power in the market. I don't think unemployed us citizens can move to china to work very easily.

[honjo294]

@FartyFace If I constantly say bad stuff will one day happen to you, Given along enough time span guess what one day it will. Its the same with the Austrian schools predictive power, they always say things are going to go bad. However they never come up with solutions on how to stop it from going bad. If the USA went back to a less interventionist economy it would be in a situation similar to the 1930's, probably even worse as they are no longer the only intacted industrialized nation,

[honjo294]

@FartyFace typical sign of a losing debate, can't argue the point so tries to change topic, then when that fails make personal attacks. I'm not a Keynesian I follow mainstream academic economics which is know as the neo-classical synthesis. Please stay on topic, comparing Keynesian economics to creationism not relevant . No one can predict with certainty what new innovations in the financial service sector will do. Such as the use of derivatives and mortgage-backed securities.

[honjo294]

@FartyFace Picking an isolated cases of where business have gone bankrupt does not discredit my former statement. Your anecdotal evidence has very little to do with current economics. The reason Glass-Steagall would have prevented the collapse is there would not have been the problem of "to big to fail" as investment banks would still be separate from retail banks. The problem now is all the new money that is should be going into the retail banks to increase consumption by the public is instead

[FartyFace]

@honjo294 I love how Keynsian retards get OWNED over and over again in online debates. Their failed policies have been mainstream for decades now. Failure after failure after failure over and over again. You guys are worse than creationists. have fun with your toilet paper degree. How does it feel to always be wrong? You idiots never saw the .com bubble coming. You TOTALLY FAILED to predict the housing bubble. What credibility does you people think you have anymore?

[10100003]

Most of the discussion in the comments is worthless. A tiny fraction of people were able to foresee the mess b4 2008. Rather than debating who is 'smarter' (who cares?) It might be more interesting to discuss what should happen going forward. All of the underlining issue remain in place, alongside a political establishment which is epically unable to even begin to deal with it - or comprehend it. Otherwise the discussion is as about as useful as how to rearrange the deck chairs on the Titanic.

[themagus187]

This lecture was complete garbage... If you want the real story on this matter, visit mises.org

[jivinthegreat]

img17.imageshack.us/img17/6514­/unemploymentobama . jpg

[jivinthegreat]

ourfuture . org/files/images/Depression-GD­P-output-1 . gif

[kaikadri]

honest sexy Asian brides *lushfmlk.info*

[bastardchildofmary]

Keynesianism is bulllshitt, but even with that being said, i don't think even Keynes would have approved of the giant deficits.[Rip, Murray, wish you were running things!]

[selfrealizedexile]

"New School for Social Research"

aka Socialist

[FartyFace]

"No one predicted the decline in the real estate market"

AHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHA

What an idiot. What he really means is that no KEYNESIAN predicted it. Thousands of Austrians did. They werent surprised at all.

[TheAgnosticInfidel]

@FartyFace Thousands? I'm aware of some Austrians, but I'm also aware that a number of Georgists and Post-Keynesians (arguably closer to Keynes' originnal vision) successfully predicted it as well.

[heckler73]

@FartyFace Austrians are impractical dotards, so who cares if they have any weak linkage to current events. The fact they have no capability to quantify their theories immediately precludes them from any relevancy in modern economic application... I can theorize all day and night about the praxeology of catallactics for what purpose?

To show that my skills in verbal diarrhea are almost as good as a politician's?

Yah... that'll save the world...

Step into the 21st century.

[FartyFace]

@heckler73

lol drunk youtube poster spotted

[mutantguitarist123]

According to a paper by dirk j Bezemer, only 11 economists predicted the event, incleding keynsians like steven keen and michael hudson. Not "thousands of austrians" i'm afraid, just a few of them like peter schiff.

[cognitionable]

@FartyFace YOU ARE SOOO FULL OF SHIT, Kruegman and Baker saw it, the demogague Paul and Schiff are corporatists

[cognitionable]

@FartyFace YOU ARE SOOO FULL OF SHIT, Kruegman and Baker saw it, Austrians have NO empirical basis for their theories., notice he mentioned the tulip bubble , it demolishes you whole chaos theory. most of your theories are self contradicting vacuous rhetoric, Freidman and Von Heyak are dead, buried and burning in hell FYI I'm a socialist not a Keynesian GO SUCK CORPORATE COCK ELSE WHERE

[FartyFace]

@cognitionable

lol Keynseyans are the biggest corporatists of all. A "socialist" who is in favor of transferring tax payer money to businesses? WORST SOCIALIST EVER. How does it feel being a slave to corporations? You are pathetic. Why do these giant corporations deserve bailout money? You and Obama need to get the corporate dick out of your ass and stick up for the little people for a change.

[cognitionable]

@FartyFace HUH? I never said I was for the bail out and the corporate institution should be abolished. You people really are stupid , there are 2 austrians in all of american academia with faculty possitions and their both universities are a joke. Even the chicago school of economics does take that shit seriously you should find another hobby leave this feild to poeple with brains , damn it you make me ashamed to be an American

[FartyFace]

@cognitionable

How in the hell are you trying to argue in favor of Keynesian and claim you are against the bailouts? You are literally the dumbest person on youtube.

Oh shit I think I solved the problem. You dont even know what Keynesian is. You obviously havent attended university. If you want to learn about Bush and Obama's economic policy you need a nice Keynesian education from an American University. Thats all they teach there. Bush-anomics

[cognitionable]

@FartyFaceI HAVE A MASTERS DEGREE , I'M A LABOR ECONOMIST I'M NOT A KEYNESIAN , I JUST DEFEND THEM BECAUSE THEY AREN'T FASCISTS LIKE YOU, KEYNESIANISM PRODUCED YOUR SO CALLED GOLDEN AGE OF CAPITALISM YOUR NEO-LIBERLISM HAS PRODUCED THE SECOND GUILDED AGE COME ON AND DEBATE ME ON VIDEO IF YOU ARE SO WISER THAN I YOU DECEITFUKL COWARD , ALL YOU CAN DO IS OMIT , FABRICATE AND DISTORT

[jeanpaulfelix]

@cognitionable

cognitionable, Awesome posts throughout.....Expose these market-fascists.......

[cognitionable]

@FartyFaceI HAVE A MASTERS DEGREE , I'M A LABOR ECONOMIST I'M NOT A KEYNESIAN , I JUST DEFEND THEM BECAUSE THEY AREN'T FASCISTS LIKE YOU, KEYNESIANISM PRODUCED YOUR SO CALLED GOLDEN AGE OF CAPITALISM YOUR NEO-LIBERLISM HAS PRODUCED THE SECOND GUILDED AGE COME ON AND DEBATE ME ON VIDEO IF YOU ARE SO WISER THAN I YOU DECEITFUKL COWARD , ALL YOU CAN DO IS OMIT , FABRICATE AND DISTORT Anyone who didn't see the bubble coming was not an economist no matter what they tell the public

[FartyFace]

@cognitionable

You are an "economist" with a masters degree and you think fascism and free market Austrian style capitalism are the same thing.

BWAHHAHAHHAHAHAHAHH EPIC FAIL you your part.

Come on man, you havent graduated highschool yet have you?

[shamgar001]

@cognitionable You have a masters degree in what, art history?

[MrIzzyDizzy]

@FartyFace so these guys sold thier houses before? - did you count the austrian school economist? - frankly i doubt it - all hayek and mises could do was whine about how impossible it was to predict things - that things basically couldnt be predited and thus no rational plan could be made as to the calculation of value other than letting the market tell us - economist are so full of themselves and thier pet therorys - a rbe solves the issue -without markets or money

[FartyFace]

@MrIzzyDizzy

No markets or money? Thats a great way to solve all the worlds problems.

I had this same idea when I was 10 years old. I think most people did. They tend to grow out of that phase around age 13-14 or so though.

You must be a late bloomer. How old are you? 16?

[MrIzzyDizzy]

@FartyFace im 48 and i never had the idea of no money until a few years ago while arguing in like fashion as you have - with a venus project supporter - he convinced me the rbe is feasabile - no money or trade required - no poverty or subserviance - take alook at the zeitgeist addendum and zeitgeist moving forward movies and see if you dont agree - if you dont its likely because of your idea of what human nature is - i think the logic speaks for itself and human nature is learned

[10100003]

@FartyFace Guess you weren't paying attention. He was implicitly implying those in position of 'authority' and the economic yes me surrounding them. Lance Taylor called the crash back in 2000 with his book 'Global Finance at risk'. He is not an idiot.

[nosuchperson2]

@FartyFace No they didn't. The Austrian school is in charge. They could have averted it. Keep in mind he is mentioning the mortgage crisis. There were lot's of Keyesians talking about it through the 2000's. Robert Schiller was talking about it in the second edition of his book Irrational Exuberant in 2005.

Again, those in control did nothing to stop it. They certainly didn't go after the obvious scam that the sub-prime lending market had become by the mid 2000's..

[FartyFace]

@nosuchperson2

"the Austrians are in charge" Uh... wait a second. You do understand that we are talking about the USA and not Austria and that "Austrians" doesnt literally mean "people from Austria" right? Please tell me you were talking about the COUNTRY of Austria when you said "The Austrians are in charge". For your sake, I hope to god thats what you meant.

[honjo294]

@FartyFace Yeah Austrians are like they boy that called wolf. There is always a cash coming what a prediction. What’s their prescription? Do nothing, deregulate make the market more volatile. Mean while millions stuffer, Austrians are always the rich or stupid. Not practical, whats freedom worth if you can't put food on the table.

[FartyFace]

@honjo294 How do you purge mal-investment from the economy without a rescission? Would you rather we suffer a bit in the short term with a recession and get better, or suffer not at all in the short term and cause the next recession to be twice as bad and last twice as long? Government intervention in the market is what makes the recessions so terrible. Its greedy and selfish to only think short term and try and fight off recessions with stimulus. better to let the market heal

[honjo294]

@FartyFace Market heal? there is nothing wrong with the market, other than a lack of confidence, brought about by a credit crunch caused by an unregulated derivatives market and an over inflated housing market thanks in part to the repeal of glass-steagall. The problem with letting big business fail is that it not only effects the people who made the mistakes but the workers and the community around it. Look at the banking collapse of the 1930's even Friedman didn't agree with that.

[FartyFace]

@honjo294 Really? You think the internet stock bubble was perfectly healthy? You actually think its ok for toys.com to be work 3 times what ToysRus is worth despite NEVER making a profit? Thats "healthy" to you? toys.com was a terrible idea and deserved to go bankrupt. Same with hundreds of other dumb internet businesses. LOL that you mentioned Glass-Steagall. Tell us what glass steagall would have done to prevent the economic crisis. YOU NEVER READ IT LOL LOL LOL

[honjo294]

@FartyFace Some times it is not due to changing tastes and preferences or bad management but because of the recession it's self, as peoples incomes are linked to their consumption if their income or confidence falls then the demand for the goods and services decrease. So business fails though no fault of it's own. As income is tied to saving as incomes fall so to total savings until you end up at a new low equilibrium with higher unemployment. Government should intervene to stop

[honjo294]

@FartyFace this downward spiral. What good is the abstract notion of freedom if it only enforces negative freedom, most people do not want the freedom to be jobless, poor, hungry. The neoliberal notion of freedom denotes a lack of responsibility to your fellow man. In fact we do not live in a fully free society and never have, I don't think a race to the bottom is a sound plan. I would rather a social liberalism that pushed for positive freedoms.

[honjo294]

@FartyFace you could purge mal-investment by having the federal reserve purchase the debt of the institutions in this case fannie mae and freddie mac, then sell the assets back to the business world at there new next to nothing market value. So the fed absorbs the loss so the money supply does not decrease (and cause more recessionary problems). Then regulate the deviates market to stop future incidents of this occurring.

[FartyFace]

@honjo294 The fed absorbs the loss. They only absorb it by printing money and causing inflation. Aka a REGRESSIVE TAX on the poor. Inflation is the most immoral form of taxation. You should be ashamed of yourself for advocating regressive taxation. The last thing poor people in this country, suffering from government intervention inspired economic crisis, need is to pay more for food and energy. Think of the 99% for once in your life.

[honjo294]

@FartyFace This would mean that the mum and dad investors and pension funds who were sold dud investment would also not be hurt by the unscrupulous practices of some of the financial engineers.

[FartyFace]

@honjo294 Dude, you just said that glass-steagal would have prevented the housing market crisis. This automatically make me win and you lose because there is NOTHING in that act that would have prevented our current economic situation in any way shape or form. You have never read glass-steagal. You heard someone else mention that act and you remembered its name so you could regurgitate it on debates. Please educate yourself a tiny bit before participating in these types of debates.

[honjo294]

@FartyFace that money is going into commodities as investment banks use their access to the fed to divert money. I hate how Austrians think that they are economists because they are not! I have an MSc in Econ and there is I think it was Stigliz that said "they are like the zombies of the economics world, the walking end, keep coming back with little to offer"

[FartyFace]

@honjo294 LOL!! You still think the .com bubble was totally healthy for the economy? Companies with no product, no customers, and no capitol are worth tens of millions of dollars? You think thats healthy? Those companies need to be purged from the system. You think its a healthy market where housing prices go up 15% per year? You really think that 2 bedroom shack in California should be worth 1.5 mil? Those are all symptoms of government intervention in the market.

[SpecialFester]

"They've been goin' back and forth for a centureeeeeee."

Keynes: "I want to steer markets!"

Hayek: "I want them set free!"

Both: "There's a boom and bust cycle and good reason to fear it!"

Hayek: "Blame low interest rates."

Keynes: "Nah, it's the ANIMAL spirits."

[cognitionable]

@SpecialFester there's no such thing as a free market fundimentalist , the fascists"coonservatives" just want to redistribute income to the upper classes

[paganpg]

Please hear the other side before making up your minds:

/watch?v=jj8rMwdQf6k

And please vote this comment up to make it sticky.

[danielltw1212]

/watch?v=q7ibkZvdXCw

/watch?v=q7ibkZvdXCw

/watch?v=q7ibkZvdXCw



[jjrglobal]

If no one can predict or conceive future events on a macro level, how do you explain the many economists that not only foresaw this crisis but wrote books on it? It certainly isn't impossible to predict that home prices in the future will fall if they have been bid up to unsustainable historical highs due to government intervention into the housing market,in fact it should be easy. Keynesianism is nonsense based on fictional formulas that leave out the unintended consequences of gov intervention

[yakyakyak69]

This is a HUGE lie!

We've been suffering under Keynes since W. Wilson birthed the Federal Reserve which controls the supply and cost of fiat money.

Keynes = Central Planning = Economic Collapse time and time again.

[Arcari123]

I was going to comment ... But then I got high

[xyenism]

I love when people who've spent a year following economics, and have read one MAYBE two books on the subject tell people who have doctorates, and thereby have spent a lifetime studying the field, to get a clue.

Well played my brilliant friend, well played.

[UserNumber112358]

@xyenism - I've seen that as well and often wonder if the reason isn't because the professors who have spent a lifetime had only studied Keynesian economics and were therefore easily refuted by adherents of the Austrian school :)

[jjrglobal]

@xyenism

Yeah, you mean like those crazy noobs back in the old days that tried to convince the scholars that the sun was at the center of the solar system? Who do those uneducated people think they are? The scholars had come up with mathematical formulas proving the earth was at the center of our solar system, a few planets had to do loops and run backwards now and again but the formulas supported the scholars theory. There is a reason why Austrians have predicted every crisis in the last 100yr

[phxfreddy]

The reason why the crisis occurred was "easy money" policy on the part of our and other central banks. Get a clue.  Damn! this guy spews out a forest or details.

"Rising Income Inequality" is the left's code phrase. Thus I had to stop watching and find something USEFUL to watch.

[0MoTheG]

therefor the rich have to loose money,

either by rising wages or taxiation or by not rescuing them from their own gambling.

we need to get to a more healthy distribution of money and therefor more direct spending.

second: there need to be better regulations to keep the money from being applyed in the ill ways of the past.

[gregjalbert]

ZEITGEIST, The Movie and ZEITGEIST ADDENDUM -- zeitgeistmovie - dot - com -- This will help you and your friends dissect and end our enslavement by the global criminal corporatocracy.

[exinferiz]

Its conspiracy theorists at its worst. Ive seen it and its just a lot of BULL!!! Watch it and look at all the cherry picking.

[topnerd]

The July 16, 2009 issue of The Economist treats this issue in a more balanced fashion.

In a nutshell: The occasional breakdown of Say's Law doesn't mean that Keynesianism didn't cause the disastrous stagflation of the 1970's.

[0MoTheG]

wasnt that caused by the oil-price-shock?

[topnerd]

The main problem with the oil shock theory is that oil didn't comprise enough of the economy to cause nearly as much inflation as we had. The growth of the money supply was the clear culprit. The link from Keynesian stimulus to money supply growth is a bit more tenuous, but it did in fact cause a backlash against Keynesianism in mainstream economics.

[0MoTheG]

does it take "real" reasons? maybe the situation (not so cold war) was critical and just needed a trigger, thereafter psychology did the rest. stragflation is a self-perpetuating situation.

Did Keynes ever say to solve it all by increasing the money supply? I guess not, just because he didn't have a solution for everything doesnt mean he was wrong.

[sakathecheetah]

It's easy to find people who have theorized any amount of ideas and likely a portion of them are right... The failure is in selecting the correct idea, and in actually convincing the people with control to adopt the model (even though it may contradict their own profits/goals).

[cooperbry]

To say that it is impossible to predict the crisis is just wrong. Many economists predicted exactly what was going to happen and are predicting the dollar crash too. These are Austrian economists. So, to assert that events are impossible to know about is just wrong. Just lost all credibility with me on that point.

[mparham54]

not to mention chartalists and the post keynesian school of thought. minsky etc

[Adlershof]

Keynes is still the worst nightmare of neocons who have created the current crisis. If not look at the comment above. They make so powerfull statements as i. e. "Keynsianism is dead wrong". Brilliant, isn't it? Marxist and neocons share one thing: thier historicism. They believe in an imaginary historic law (wether the clash of classes or the free market). Both are wrong. Incerntity regarded by Keynes is necessary in order to make sence of this world again

[fnyklr]

All hail the big government. spending is saving, war is peace, freedom is slavery, etc etc.

[mbarkhau]

Keynsianism is dead wrong. Read "Meltdown" by Thomas Woods or check out some of his talks on the mises channel.

[exinferiz]

@mbarkhau So HOW is it "dead wrong"?

[mbarkhau]

@exinferiz You honestly expect me to explain Austrian Business Cycle Theory in a youtube comment? This is exactly why I made reference to a place you might find the answer to that question.

[exinferiz]

Austrian Economics is DEAD WRONG. Its infantile. Just read Robert Shiller's book Animal Spirits, or The Black Swan by Nassim Taleb.

[lordmetroid]

watch?v=d0nERTFo-Sk

[mparham54]

austrian business cycle is a joke

[mbarkhau]

@mparham54 OMG, your refutation is impecable. I stand in awe and retract all previous statements.

Long live Lord Keynes.

[cognitionable]

@mbarkhau there is no way to explain it because Von Heyak's theories were in a vacuum it doesn't make any sense. , if you really think you know what you're talking about , debate me via video little boy