WOTM teach works salvation according to the bible, here is 100% proof:
Jonah 3:10 And God saw THEIR WORKS, that they turned from their evil way; and God repented of the evil, that he had said that he would do unto them; and he did it not.
It says God saw "their WORKS" they they turned from their evil way (sins), and in the same verse it says God himself repented...it doesn't mean turn from sin, WOTM are 100% fake phony works salvation, self righteous pharisees. Dont trust them, trust KJV bible
@sandworm3 Quote: " Prideful self proclaimed wisdom made foolish by the light of truth." What "truth"? That Evolution is "Just a theory"? Well as I've pointed out, you don't even know the definition of theory. That Christianity is a better way? I've already sited evidence that proved secularism creates better societies. That the Bible is the infallible word of God? Well I've proven that Genesis has been refuted. You are a rational person? I've proven you're a moron. Nothing self proclaimed!
@sandworm3 You started with the personal attacks only yours were lose assumptions. Mine I've backed up with examples and have proven them. I used something called evidence. I know you don't like evidence but it carries a lot of weight and trumps talking s#$t (which is all you've done) every time.
@Kochofication Naw, your full of venom and absent of joy. I wonder where this comes from. It more than likely must have something to do with something you have going on and the authority has spoken on it. I dunno, just by visiting your channel, my guess is some sort of perversion that you cling to and want bondage. There is great freedom in being a Christian. Slave to sin no more, the flesh is no longer in control.
@sandworm3 What's wrong with my Channel? And how do you know that I'm "absent of joy"? How can I take what you write seriously when you make ridiculous assumptions like that? Venom? If it was unfounded it would be venom (like what you write about me) I have proven you're an idiot so it's not a venomous attack. It's just stating a fact.
@Kochofication How inappropriate your favorite videos are. That is some weird and vulgar stuff to favorite. Your not going to like this but do you know where joy comes from? You got it, Joy comes from the Lord. You can try to immitate it or fill that void with as much stuff as you can but it's all going to be ashes. True joy and contentment comes from the Lord.
@Kochofication Time to actually read the word friend. All 66 books correlate seamless and perfect together. God's love story of his pursuit of his people and children. That's you and me. The gospel account. John was Jesus's most beloved disciple. He not only wrote the account from walking with Jesus, but was blessed to write the book of the Revelation. Luke was a doctor, can't remember about Mark, he might have been a student of Paul, but Matthew the tax collector, yes another eye witness.
@sandworm3 Moron! No serious scholar actually attributes the Gospel of John to the apostle John. You are a "Christian" and you do not know the controversy that has surrounded its authorship since the second century? Or are you being deliberately misleading? How very Christian of you. Evangelists wouldn't lie would they? John was the last Gospel written and most scholars date it between 90 and 100. Some even 120AD. That's alot of Chinese whispers! Idiot!
@Kochofication There is no controversy. John is the author. Who are the self proclaimed scholars? Oh let me guess, that group of heretics without credential, the Jesus Seminar? Please humor me and tell me this is so.
Number one you are on a Christian video site. People that have it know it, and they understand your condition. Ramble as you wish about this and that, they are just contentions and foolish arguments. I am more concerned about the gospel and you more so than monkey skeletons and who thinks they are more advanced than the other b.s. Time to realize, one human family, all in this together. Life is short, today is the day of salvation, how do we bring you to Calvary?
@sandworm3 " I am more concerned about the gospel and you more so than monkey skeletons " The funny (well pathetic) thing is that you have no idea how stupid you sound. You have no idea about evolution yet you talk as though you can disprove it. You are completely ignorant of the facts. Outside your community you'd be a laughing stock. Indeed I'm sure that there are many within that do laugh at you. (try expanding your reading beyond the bible)
@Kochofication Always back to the monkey theories and foolish controversies. My very best for you and to you-God desires all men to be saved. "For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life. Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe in him stands condemned already because he he has not believed in the name of God's one and only Son. (Cont)
@sandworm3 "back to the monkey theories and foolish controversies" - You truly can't understand how ignorant and idiotic you sound making statements like that do you?
@Kochofication What really is ignorant and idiotic is trying to justify that nothing times nothing created everything. From extreme chaos came order. Which came first, the evolving of your lungs or your heart? Oh let me guess, the chaos, shaken up enough, formed it all in perfect balance. Let me throw an engine, a transmission, some wipers, doors, radio, nuts, screws, steering wheel, brakes, out of an airplane and say give it enough time and it will make a cadillac.Sorry, you have a builder.
@Kochofication (cont). This is the verdict: Light has come into the world, but men loved darkness instead of light because their deeds were evil. Everyone who does evil hates the light, and will not come into the light for fear that his deeds will be exposed. But whoever lives by the truth comes into the light so that it may be seen plainly that what he has done has been done through God." You say you don't believe. Challenge: Ask this Jesus to show himself to you.
Where does one begin? The seeker will often find that he was the one being sought. Begin with the gospel of John. We have to start at Calvary. This is where everything is going to begin to make sense. Don't ignore Calvary and become an eternal tragedy.
@sandworm3 More preaching. How about sticking to evidence to support your arguments? You still haven't explained fossil evidence (I take it you concede evolution is real) and you haven't explained why secular societies around the world are more advanced than religious ones.
@sandworm3 Seeing that I now told you the definition of "Deism" and that you have no reply to that I take it you concede that your founding fathers were secularists rather than Christian. So why do you argue that your country needs to turn back to God and then extoll the founding fathers in the same breath? You have contradicted yourself again and again throughout this forum. You've dug a huge hole for yourself. Your arguments about atheism have been destroyed.
@Kochofication To go way back, which is why I iggy you on that. I said the founding father's were deists. They didn't work Christ into the language. They speak of God much and as a force above all things.
@sandworm3 Yes the founding Father's were deists. Then why push the Bible and theistic belief as the thing that will save society? You have written numerous times that people need to turn back to Christianity and the bible, not just a vague belief in a higher power. By your own definition the founding fathers were "perverted" and "joyless" and morally corrupt. You're words! read through your posts.
@Kochofication (cont) We have a response in this. Acknowledging ourselves as sinners, believing by faith in the death, burial and resurrection of the Lord Jesus Christ, and confessing with our mouth and bending the knee that he is Lord. May you receive this gospel and the power it has to change lives. Time to lay aside the rabbit trail conversation and get out of the briar patch. Today is the day of salvation. If you hear his voice do not harden your heart. Grace and Peace.
@sandworm3 Why should I be "believing by faith in the death, burial and resurrection of the Lord Jesus Christ"? There is no EVIDENCE for this. The bible is a poorly written literary garbage. I've read it. How can any person of reasonable intelligence believe it? Why is blind faith a virtue? You think it's a good thing but I think it is stupid and gullible.
I'll refresh your memory and I love this! -We are created in His image in that we are a tri-unity. God is Father, Son and Holy Spirit. Man is body, soul and spirit. We resemble God in that we have emotion, intellect; will and ability to create NOT just procreate. We have dominion and authority to rule over creation. We have the capability to choose between good and evil. God has given these features to humans and that is what separates us from the animal world.
@sandworm3 WHY DO YOU KEEP IGNORING THE FOLLOWING? PLEASE EXPLAIN: Homo erectus, Homo ergasta, Australopithecus garhi, Australopithecus africanus, Australopithecus afarensis, Australopithecus anamensis.
You are way out of your league to criticise all the good that all these charities have done in some of the most horrible places on the planet. I have been where you are before, empty, absent of joy, and lost. I can tell you where the medicine is, you need to decide for yourself. There is no other name by which men can be saved. First I got saved from myself, next saved from condemnation. Please consider this.Jesus came to save sinners. No one too bad to be saved, none too good that need not.
@sandworm3 I don't feel empty or joyless at all. Thanks for your concern but can you please address the points I brought up in our debate about Evolution instead of constantly ignoring them? You just look stupid doing so. Particularly dodging my list of humanities "transitional species". I've listed them and you've ignored them and insisted that none have been found!
@sandworm3 You clearly know nothing about Evolution. We are not "Supercharged" monkeys and we did not, as it is commonly believed, evolve from chimpanzees. We share a common ancestor with chimpanzees. Try learning about the thing that you are trying to refute. You sound very stupid otherwise.
@Kochofication (next) naw, I understand more than enough of evolution. Enough to know that Darwin was right when he said, trash this in 120 if you don't find the transitional specie. Still looking. I'll catch any new readers and you up again because you are not listening. The missing link cannot be found, why? The whole chain is missing. Nothing times nothing cannot create everything. Your eyes and brain alone will tell you when you see everything made, there is a builder. Peace.
@sandworm3 Mate, I already went through your "transitional species" as you like to call them (proof that you don't know "enough" about Evolution). Remember the fossils I listed all the way to Homo sapiens??? You really are brainwashed. You just completely ignore what I write and pick out the bits you like. You are delusional. No wonder the world (and other Christians) laughs at Evangelists.
@Kochofication I don't follow the skeletons you refer to as proof other than another form of an extinct monkey. How is that a stepping stone to being a human? No proof. I see a monkey and I say, ah a monkey. You see a monkey and see your relatives. No wonder you want to behave like an animal. I explained earlier what separates animals from humans quite articulately.
@sandworm3 You're kidding right? They look less and less like "monkeys" the futher along the chain you get. Their brains size is almost as large as humans and some (Neanderthal and Cromagnon man) co-existed with humans. Scientists (i.e. project steve) overwhelmingly agree on evolution. Why are they wrong and you right? You still haven't explained the evidence. You've just dismissed it! Really clever!!!
@sandworm3 How was Abraham Lincoln a "Great Christian" when he never formally joined a church? There is debate about Lincolns religiosity (great debate) and yet you call him a "Great Christian". You just keep making things up don't you? Tell me, how does God feel about your deceit?
We are created in His image in that we are a tri-unity. God is Father, Son and Holy Spirit. Man is body, soul and spirit. We resemble God in that we have emotion, intellect; will and ability to create NOT just procreate. We have dominion and authority to rule over creation. We have the capability to choose between good and evil. God has given these features to humans and that is what separates us from the animal world.
@sandworm3 "We have dominion and authority to rule over creation". It is that arrogant attitude that is skewing the debate over climate change and the like. With that attitude we do nothing but use and abuse our surroundings. Again you turn to a book written by men (a rather poorly written book by the way) that is highly inaccurate rather than physical evidence.
@Kochofication (next) Having authority over creation is a privilege and great responsibility. Read the bible, it calls the follower to be a steward over everything. A steward doesn't own, the very meaning of the word is manager over someone else's property, originally pigs, (sty warden). With that, you cannot be more innaccurate charging that a Christian would abuse his/her surroundings. We understand who made it all and stand in awe at everything He has made. Privilege and responsibility.
@sandworm3 Technology has given us power over all nature. That is it. Inaccurate charging Christians abusing their surroundings? Tell me, in your country alone, how many Evangelists deny global warming? I'd venture to say all of them again denying science. But why? Because of that attitude that the world is ours to use and abuse. Your Evangelist former president even started a war over a grab of resources that he could use.
@Kochofication I myself don't deny global warming, what the heck does that have to do with being a Christian or not? The attitude of use of the world is correct... abuse?-that's not a Christian value nor should it be a value of anyone.
@sandworm3 Then we are on the same page here. But I argue that abuse of this world can be atributed, at least in part, to Christianity and other religions. If you believe you have dominion over the natrual world the likelyhood for abuse is high.
@sandworm3 You clearly know nothing about Evolution. We are not "Supercharged" monkeys and we did not, as it is commonly believed, evolve from chimpanzees. We share a common ancestor with chimpanzees. Try learning about the thing that you are trying to refute. You sound very stupid otherwise.
You ask for statistics. I guess I could go to Samaritans Purse, Voice of the Martrys, Food for the Poor, etc, etc, etc. and show you what the church has done in the name of Christ, but you are fully capable of seeing and hearing for yourself. Check it out if you are so hungry for statisics. Your attack on Christianity and it's outreach is completely unfounded, I would hate to harbor an attitude and character like that, absent of joy.
@sandworm3 Unfounded? Secular charities are far more affective than Christian ones. They don't undermine thier good work with preaching against condoms in a high HIV area.
@sandworm3 "Your attack on Christianity and it's outreach is completely unfounded" Is It? How many people in Africa needlessly contract HIV because "Christian" charities refuse to teach people about safe sex and only preach abstinence? Secular organisations do good without committing bad at the same time. And I question the motivation of missionaries and Christian charities. Is it truly to help people or merely to spread the "word"?
@Kochofication Don't know quite where to begin with you. Here's a start. Help me to understand your attack on Christianity? In two centuries the faith exploded. Why? Because it drives people to care for other people and that my friend is the focus. Jesus gave us two great commandments that basically sum up the 10. Love the Lord your God with all your heart, soul and mind and strength and love your neighbor as yourself. It drives you to care for the human family.
@sandworm3 Modern Christianity is rather benign. Evangelism (and to a far lesser extent Catholicism) is incredibly dangerous. Take science for example. You erode science and brainwash your children against it. You disregard the scientific method which is responsible for your high standard of living and longer life expectancy today. You seek to dumb down humanity and I'm afraid that if Evangelism or Islam for that matter take over our standard of living will plummet.
@Kochofication Weird. You blame the AIDS crisis on Christian outreach and charity? How old are you? You'll like this- let's place the monkey on the right back. Can we not take accountability for our fallen nature and know that sex outside of marriage leads to these pestilences? When the flesh rules the body, you are free to choose, but you are not free to choose the consequences. I think of all the good amongst a bad situation that the missionaries are doing. Time for a new heart brother.
@sandworm3 What a load of rubbish. Fine, if you want to preach that guilt ridden crap do it, but what is wrong with teaching safe sex along side it? After all you acknowledge that we are all "sinners". So why not take precautions that if a person "falls" he is still protected from this appalling virus? It's as though you think HIV/AIDS is a just punishment for someone having sex before they marry. That's just evil man. Not Christ like at all!
@sandworm3 Does renewing your mind involve ignoring evidence? You have ducked and weaved in our debate on Evolution. I gave you some facts that you can easily look up and verify and asked how they fit in with creation and you have simply ignored them and merely prosthelytised.
@Kochofication You have not given any facts. Spontaneous unigensis or whatever is an out to lunch theory. Nothing thimes nothing created everything? "See to it that no one takes you captive through hollow or deceptive philosophies, which depends on human tradition and basic principles of this world rather than on Christ." Colossians 2:8 key word - CAPTIVE.
@sandworm3 "Nothing thimes nothing created everything?" So you're saying Nothing times Nothing created God? You see how you contradict yourself? Or are you too brainwashed to?
@Kochofication Relativism is a foul stench to the world culture. Each person in their own depravity inventing their own version of truth to justify their wickedness and inquity. It's all about sin brother. Deny God, put yourself on the throne, I can do what I want. That is the mantra- coincidently the same as lucifer's before the fall - Let my will be done, not yours. The Christian, bends the knee, Lord, let your will be done. Blessing flows. Don't follow a loser, time to examine oneself.
@sandworm3 Again, you employ relativism when it suits you. Tell me, if you are so for Moral Absolutes what about all the slavery in the Bible? The Bible clearly advocates slavery. Do you believe it to be immoral to be a slave owner? Of course you do. Why? Because of modern, secular morality! Reasoned discussion on the subject has tempered people religious "morals" of bigotry and savagery and selfishness.
@Kochofication Coincendently, I was reading some social law from Exodus. The slavery argument, that day was a patriarchal society, Moses, was not in favor of slavery, but established law so that they were treated fairly. That was part of the culture at the time. Abraham Lincoln, a great Christian president, what is he most remembered for? Emmancipation proclomation. The supreme court had placed the value of a person as the same as furniture.
@sandworm3 You harp on about Abraham Lincoln yet it was the confederates that claimed to have "God on our side" when it came to the slavery debate. And they were right!
@sandworm3 How was Abraham Lincoln a "Great Christian" when he never formally joined a church? There is debate about Lincolns religiosity (great debate) and yet you call him a "Great Christian". You just keep making things up don't you? Tell me, how does God feel about your deceit?
"The bible remains infallible...many have tried to disprove it" Are you out of your mind? Creation, the biggest and greatest screwup in the bible, has been utterly destroyed. Look at the geological evidence, the strata, radioactive dating. Look at the fossils in the strata and where they are found. Look at the "transitional" species as you like to call them. If one rabbit or human fossil is ever found in the same strata as a dinosaur, evolution is destroyed. IT HAS NEVER HAPPENED!
@Kochofication (continued) If they were all created at the same time why aren't there any bunny rabbits found in the same strata as dinosaurs? If all the species reemerged from Noah's Ark why don't we find a pattern of species distributed with a clear epicenter? Why do we have platypuses only in Australia? WHy none near mt Ararat? Why aren't there any Giraffes on the Galapagos Islands? Did they head straight for Africa? Why aren't there any in Germany?
@Kochofication I think our knowledge of the strata is only in a beginning phase.When did the digging first occur but in the 1800's?That is a very short window to the present to think that we have unlocked the mysteries of creation. It is a joy to work with this stuff and stand in awe at how He did it.The creation that surrounds you is but a mere reflection of God's character.His artistry and precision.You don't honestly think that nothing times nothing could bring the diversity that you see?
@sandworm3 "I think our knowledge of the strata is only in a beginning phase." Now you just made that up. It doesn't matter what you "think". Back up that statement. We have a fairly complete understanding of geological strata. Stop making ridiculous assumptions about science when things don't back up what the Bible says.
@Kochofication Again BACK UP your statement about "I think our knowledge of the strata is only in a beginning phase." You can;t can you? And you continue to dodge questions about the evidence for evolution. This whole dabate has just been you talking out of yur @#s. You are out of your depth here.
@Kochofication Don't know where all the animals scattered after the flood receded. Best I can sum is that these herds, etc, being migratory, went to the habitats that suited them and were created for them. The animals of Africa, travel great distances, some of the biggest migrations upon the planet.
@sandworm3 "Best I can sum is that these herds, etc, being migratory, went to the habitats ". Best you can Sum??? Why assume when science explains? You are just making stuff up. You are making stuff up without evidence. Look at the evidence!!!
The funny thing is I give you information and statistics that you can look up and fact check and all you do is prosthelytise with your bible verses. What evidence do you have for creation that hasn't been utterly refuted?
@Kochofication What has been refuted? The science you seek is all there in Genesis 1. Time.Force.Space.Matter. In the beginning(Time) God created(Force) the heavens and the earth(space and matter). Creation was completely supernatural and miraculous. You are trying to connect natural law to this when it played no part. Here comes another bible verse to rebuke your unbelieving heart and your words without knowledge. Job 38: Please read, this is a dandy.
@Kochofication Adam, Eve, Noah, Seven Days, Creation of all species- viable and very real, the evolutionist cannot disprove any of it, but present theory opposing. Back to Jesus, He can give you new eyes, and a new mind, heart, so you can see these things and understand. Salvation isn't about getting man into heaven, it's about getting God out of heaven and into man.
@sandworm3 "Adam, Eve, Noah, Seven Days, Creation of all species- viable and very real, the evolutionist cannot disprove.." AGAIN, how do you explain the fossil record? How do you explain those "Transitional" species? Remember A. apithecus, A africanus etc. You haven't addressed those at all! How do you explain the fact that we are almost identical, genetically, to Chimpanzees? How do you explain vestigial organs? i.e. appendix.
@sandworm3 "Creation of all species- viable and very real, the evolutionist cannot disprove any of it, but present theory opposing." DID I NOT post the definition to the word Theory here on this post? Have you been ignoring the bits that your "Christian" mind simply can't deal with? Typical!
I am beginning to think you know nothing of science. The only source that has been quoted is a youtube spoof on 'why creationists are laughed at'. It's a dangerous world when psuedo intellectuals such as yourself let the internet shape your thinking to the extent that you are pulled and tossed in the current of whatever comes your way.
@sandworm3 Why do almost all scientists from various fields accept evolution? THey are far brighter than you or your hero the "Banana Man". Evangelism is a retardant to society just as other fundamentalist religions, i.e Islam, Mormonism are. How could you possibly accept genesis as literally accurate when science has utterly refuted it. Not just evolution. Geology refutes genesis. The earth has been dated at 4.5 billion years by numerous independent measuring techniques.
@Kochofication Brilliantly stupid. Nothing times nothing created everything. That is a retardant in itself. Defies even the basic laws of thermodynamics. How can you create matter from nothing? All the mentioned has never been proven but is steeped in theory of how it happened.
@sandworm3 No one knows how it all began. And science says something that "humble" Christians never say..."We don't know", but here's a question....who created the creator?
@Kochofication Answer:Nobody.He has always existed.You can't unfold that mystery because you and I are finite. We see everything through the lens of a beginning and an end.The bible teaches that He has always existed,and He being a Triune. As you say,"evolution is destroyed, it never happened." Very true.If you are looking at literal time as 6 days of creating,that could be or a day or millinia,not sure, both are possible.The days of creation are simply set as that there was a time of creating.
@sandworm3 "Nothing times nothing created everything." Why do you not accept that for matter but you then in the next breath claim that "He has always existed." Can you see how you contradicted yourself there?
@Kochofication You have to find your absolutes. If you are a relativist, each person makes their own truth in turn is that there is no truth at all and negates any possibility of absolutes. Moral relativism spawns a brood of confused individuals. Jesus said, "I am the way, the truth, and the life, no one comes to the Father except through me." Jesus makes many references to his divine nature as creator many times in the bible, also references that he has always been.Finite mind cannot get it.
@sandworm3 While I agree with your statement about relativism (I too find it irritating and stupid) you can not apply absolutes to morals all the time. i.e. When Ray asks "are you a lier " you have to say yes. But does that automatically make you a bad person? I hate relativism as much as you do but if you lie to the Nazis while hiding Jews in the attic, I'm sorry but you don't have to be a relativist to see that that lie is NOT morally reprehensible and you will NOT go to hell because of it.
@Kochofication Ray is simply getting a person to agree that they are a sinner as we all are. You may be a good person, reality is, you sin, why? because of the fallen nature.The going to hell part comes in where you leave the savior out. The atonement was made on our behalf.God did not spare his only son. Do you think we should be spared? compared to the perfect life that Jesus led? The point is, you have received a free gift, grace. We receive it by faith not by works so that none can boast.
@sandworm3 So what you're saying is that Ray states the obvious (we are human) and then somehow ties that in as a reason for being saved because of some book? Again we revert to the original argument. "Christian" or indeed any religious societies are far inferior and less humane than secular ones. Look up the statistics!
@Kochofication The greatest statistic ever is the first church that exploded faith to the world. This Jesus was so different from any of the false religions that the world had embraced.. He cared for the sick, poor, outcast, and the sinner. He did not come for the healthy but for the sick. "It is not the healthy that need a doctor, but the sick. I have not come to call the righteous, but sinners" Mark 2:17 Christians care for the sick, the poor and the needy, we are His hands and feet.
@Kochofication If you believe that this is all there is and deny eternity, the answer you seek is in you finite thinking. You refuse to believe in an existance past this. Even though the reality is, you deceive yourself. You can't escape that inner wiring, that keeps reminding you of your creator. You can fill up all you want on this secular stuff, but you cannot deny your inner programming. sorry.
@sandworm3 I actually sort of agree with you here. We are hardwired to believe in an afterlife or creator etc. Furthermore indoctrination by parents has affected 99% of the world population and is extremely difficult to overcome. We are also uncomfortable with the unknown and are prone to make up our own answers to questions we can't answer. It's called Argument from ignorance and it is a well known frailty of the human condition. Psychologists have known about it for years.
@Kochofication You call it indoctrination. I call it love. Are you a father? Who wouldn't want the very best for their children? Who wouldn't want to instill virtue and morals that will lead to a life of blessing? These same virtues will protect your children from danger. Those "do not do's" in the bible are there because God doesn't want you to hurt yourself. Test them all out. Everyone of them. Are sexual limits there to be a killjoy? No! They keep you safe and society.
@sandworm3 Every parent would want the very best for their children. But why would you want to teach them obvious falsehoods? (due to the lack of your coherent reply to our Evolution debate and failure to address the details i.e fossil evidence etc., I will assume that you are beginning to warm to the fact that creationism is demonstrably wrong). How is that love and not indoctrination?
@Kochofication How is creationism demonstratably wrong when the physical world is all around you? Interesting enough, I was listening to Jim Tour, an organic chemist. He works hand in hand with God and science and has been gifted and blessed with brilliance and creativity. He shared that most scientist's have a belief in intelligent design when you speak with them one on one, it's a very small minority that share the thoughts you think science has.
@sandworm3 "How is creationism demonstratably wrong when the physical world is all around you?" Because you can't explain how it got there? You go from I don't know to MAGIC! Well, science doesn't rely on magic. Scientists have examined evidence, tested hpothesis and have PROVEN evolution. Now why would you choose Magic over a tried, tested and proven scientific theory? I gave you the Evidence. Look it up! I've asked you to numerous times now and you keep spouting bible verses at me.
@Kochofication As far as being uncomfortable with the unknown? That doesn't produce faith. That just produces insurance policy holders. God is not mocked. It's all about a relationship that He wants to have with us. Immanuel, It means God With Us. Romans- If God is for us, who can be against us? This is good news. Apart from Christ, no hope. Is your house built on the rock or the sand? Once again, parental love,and far from indoctrination. You will get it when you hold a baby in your arms.
@sandworm3 We have found many transitional species. Even from the last common ancestors with chimpanzees all the way to humans. As I've said before and you just ignored and spewed ridiculous bible verses at me, How do you explain the fossils of Homo erectus, Homo ergasta, Australopithecus garhi, Australopithecus africanus, Australopithecus afarensis, Australopithecus anamensis? Shall I keep going? How do you explain these "Transitional" species? Found any humans with dinosaurs in the strata yet?
@sandworm3 Have you heard of "Project Steve"? Look it up. There are more scientists with the name Steve that support Evolution than ALL "Scientists" who dispute it! There is no "Controversy".
The bible has never been proven fallible. Why? Because it is the infallible word of God. Your wisdom is made foolish by it and will forever be frustrated. It stands the test of time as nothing else can. Which is revelation enough of it's divine nature. In all the world's attempts and self proclaimed brilliance, the wise have always become fools. Praise the Lord.
@sandworm3 Perhaps if guns weren't so prevalent in your society metal detectors would not be needed in schools. Your gun related death rate if by far the highest in the western world? (Not a "generalisation" but a measured fact) Why is that when the rest of the western world is far more Godless than you?
@sandworm3 "The wise have always become fools"? Talk about generalisation. I don't even know what that means? Wanna be specific? The Bible has been proven fallible. As I've said multiple times and pointed you in the right directions and implored you to even do research for yourself, evolution has been utterly refuted. Look at a real scientific paper instead of a creationist website.
@Kochofication The bible remains infallible because it is the only book that has weathered the test of time. Many have tried to disprove it and all have failed. That is what it means that the wise become fools. Name one, please, just one absolute fact that you can conjure, that disproves the credibility of the bible. Here's the challenge-where can someone with your belief system go for absolutes? There are none, atheists make themselvesselves to be tiny, impudent gods.
@sandworm3 "The bible remains infallible...many have tried to disprove it" Are you out of your mind? Creation, the biggest and greatest screwup in the bible, has been utterly destroyed. Look at the geological evidence, the strata, radioactive dating. Look at the fossils in the strata and where they are found. Look at the "transitional" species as you like to call them. If one rabbit or human fossil is ever found in the same strata as a dinosaur, evolution is destroyed. IT HAS NEVER HAPPENED!
Sandworm:"I don't access or validate that kind of MEDIA as credible for anything"
What, scientific peer review journals aren't credible? Are you insane? They are published for the scrutiny of all scientists around the world and none have successfully refuted evolution. How much scrutiny does the bible stand up to? Children see through it.
@Kochofication Bible has been the best seller of all time dude. Children receive it better than adults do. Oh and by the way... as Jesus says, "You would be better a millstone be tied around your neck and cast into the sea than prevent these little ones from coming to me." You are a stumbling block. Got it? Time to get on the right team. The media I refer to is your youtube soap operas that you keep spamming and think is gospel. hahaha.
@Kochofication Bible has been the best seller of all time dude. Children receive it better than adults do. Oh and by the way... as Jesus says, "You would be better a millstone be tied around your neck and cast into the sea than prevent these little ones from coming to me." You are a stumbling block. Got it? Time to get on the right team. The media I refer to is your youtube soap operas that you keep spamming and think is gospel. hahaha.
It reflects a great deal about your maturity level that you can make such vast generalizations about a country you know very little about. Crazy. I respect the Australian people and government as any other nation in the world provided it pursues the best interests of its people and freedom. Seems kinda childish doesn't it to haggle about that?
@sandworm3 You seem to have forgotten the core of this particular debate.You stated that your country needs to turn back to God to improve itself. The evidence from other western democracies is that it should do the exact opposite. Furthermore, you just said about a government serving the best interests of its people. Your current (more secular) government cares more for its people than your previous one ever did, universal healthcare a prime example, so why all the controversy among Christians?
@Kochofication your crazy, there's been a steady deterioration in America since throwing God out of the school house and moving the metal detectors in. Used to be the biggest infractions were chewing gum and speaking out of turn. Now We have drugs and violence in our schools. The mill grinds slow and sure, removing God and biblical values from our country will bring it's ruin. Sexual perversion is a true sign of a nation on it's last legs. Look back at Egypt, Greece, Rome.
@sandworm3 "Sexual perversion is a true sign of a nation on its last legs"? You are the most sexually repressed country in the western world. That is the source of any perversion that may result. Sure drugs (not sure about violence) has gone up. How exactly does Godlessness correlate to that?
@Kochofication How does godlessness correlate to that? Precisely back to square one of this discussion. Atheism is founded on arrogance and self gratification. Where do you get your values and morals from? The idea of a God and expectation of a standard of morals throws a wet blanket on you. The number one reason, I feel for the choice of unbelief is: Sin. There is an idol there that an individual just cannot stand to part with, so they choose unbelief to live out their debachery.
@sandworm3 How it correlates? Societies can make decisions and laws based on rational debate, not ridiculous moral absolutes of fairytales. "Godless" societies are more advanced. AGAIN, look at the statistics. That is proven fact. You can bury your head in the sand all you like. Evangelists are good at that.
@Kochofication Weird. "Godless societies are more advanced"???That is the ridiculous statement of the day. Really, I am more concerned with you, not society and meaningless generalities. Reality is, you and I are getting older. This is all going to end. We are going to die. You will exist.There is no hiding at that point, the talking will be over, God will be the one talking. Hear this from Hebrews 3:15 "Today, if you hear his voice, do not harden your hearts as you did in the rebellion."
@Kochofication (continued) Today is the day of salvation. Today. I can't scare or argue anyone into salvation, that is not my purpose. How can I present to you a need for the savior? Jesus the one who created you. I saw that need about eight years ago in my own life. Now I know what living is. A new heart and a new mind, new eyes and ears. Believe me, this is the only life to live and heaven is a reward. I want you to have it. Today is the day of salvation.
@Kochofication Evangelicals don't bury their head in the sand, it is a contradiction in terms. Oxymoron. Evangelical means to tell. That is what we do, get engaged in an unbelieving world. I don't want to just scratch backs with other believers. Like a soldier, I want to go after those missing in action. Tell them the good news of Christ, hope and pray they receive it. I will sow the seeds, God will water. More seed is coming your way, God loves you and wants you in his family.
@sandworm3 But burying your head in the sand is exactly what you are doing when dismissing statistical facts as "generalities" and by denying evidence. Evolution is a fact (not "just a theory"[we went through the definitions]). You can't possibly, as a rational person, look at the overwhelming evidence and still deny it. You either don't know anything about about science or are deluded. It is that simple.
@Kochofication There's no overwhelming evidence. Darwin himself even put a time limit on locating transitional specie. 125 years, then throw it out.... Still looking aren't we. Why? Because none exist. As far as fairytales are concerned, the evidence you refer to are the dreams of sophisticatedly ignorant men. Unfortunate. (next)- Christians that laugh at evangelicals aren't Christians. Yet another strange generality, what source does this come from?
@sandworm3 Perhaps if guns weren't so prevalent in your society metal detectors would not be needed in schools. Your gun related death rate if by far the highest in the western world? (Not a "generalisation" but a measured fact) Why is that when the rest of the western world is far more Godless than you?
@Kochofication No defense. It's time for a wake up call in America, the alarm has sounded. Here's what happens when you wake up. First you get cleaned up, then you get dressed up. How does one get cleaned up? Turn to the Lord Jesus Christ. How does one remain clean? Dress up in the Lord Jesus Christ. That is revival. Draw a circle on the floor and let it begin with me. One by one.
@sandworm3"I don't access or validate that kind of MEDIA as credible for anything"
What, scientific peer review journals aren't credible? Are you insane? They are published for the scrutiny of all scientists around the world and none have successfully refuted evolution. How much scrutiny does the bible stand up to? Children see through it.
@sandworm3"I don't access or validate that kind of MEDIA as credible for anything"
What, scientific peer review journals aren't credible? Are you insane? They are published for the scrutiny of all scientists around the world and none have successfully refuted evolution. How much scrutiny does the bible stand up to? Children see through it.
Sin has separated all from God.Out of his love, He sent His son,Jesus,Immanuel which means "God with us." He understands everything about this broken world.All have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God.Jesus came to save sinners. He lived a perfect life and was crucified and died on our behalf and made a perfect sacrifice in our place.He rose from the grave,the tomb is empty.We will live because He lives. We respond in thanks, we receive this good news by faith and that is Gospel. Amen.
Today is the day of salvation. Do not harden your hearts when you hear his voice. Only a fool boasts of tomorrow and it is a dreadful thing to fall into the hands of the living Lord. How is a man saved? Turn from sin, believe in your heart and confess with your mouth that Christ is Lord.
Again, it is mere speculation. Dreams of men that are too sophisticated to receive what has already been revealed to them. Sadly devoting themselves to a lifelong waste to pursue that which is already known.Christians are not absent to science, we choose to work with our creator as partners to unfold the mysteries of this all. Our brains are not checked at the door as you are tempted to say. I hope to one day explore the world, reach the far places. Does that invalidate me that I have not?
@sandworm3 "not absent to science"? You are absent to reality. The evidence is OVERWHELMING. Read it! Just read it. Even the frickin Pope can accept evolution. Is he not "Christian" enough for you? You have checked you brain at the door. Evangelism is extremism in this respect
As far as you being "Invalidated" with your lack of travel, you are in respect to your comments about your country needing God to improve it when some other countries run so muchbetter and are so much more irreligious.
@Kochofication Show me the contributions that exceed that of the United States. When it comes to humanitarian response, what has or what would atheism do for others? Please tell. After all, your foundations are built around survival of the fittest. Hmm, Germany learned one in that. I am more burdened over your lost soul, than the contentions and rabbit trail you keep leading us on.
@sandworm3 Never doubted US contribution to world history (Although Russia actually saved Europe in WW2). I Questioned US contribution in last 30 years. Humanitarian response? Lets look and HIV and Africa. Secular organisations are far more effective than Christian ones that only add to the problem with their "abstinence" programs. They are evil. Secular organisations do a far better job than any religious charity in tackling the epidemic.
@Kochofication Shows how dumb you can be. The church has done more for feeding and caring for the poor, disaster relief than anything that atheism could ever claim. Jesus Christ turns people outward. The devil(and atheism) turns you inward. Self Self Self, Me Me Me... I bet you're pretty good at looking out for yourself aren't ya? Once again, time to get on the right team.
As far as scientist's that laugh? That's ok. Jesus himself said there will be mockers. I don't live my life to please men that have puffed themselves up in their own wisdom. However, it is the desire of God's heart (and thus mine too) that "All men be saved and come to a knowledge of the truth." I Timothy3-5 (please read!)
@sandworm3 You don't even know the definition of the word theory!
Theory:
1. A set of statements or principles devised to explain a group of facts or phenomena, especially one that has been repeatedly tested or is widely accepted and can be used to make predictions about natural phenomena.
2.An assumption based on limited information or knowledge; a conjecture.
You doubt the theory of gravity? I invite you to then jump off a building.
@Kochofication I've attained my degrees, which won't matter much in the end. They provided the door to the job I have, but that doesn't compare to the education that life brings. Does a PhD validate a person? Or a masters? Evolution remains a theory, simply because it cannot be proved. As I said, the link isn't missing, the whole chain is.
The fact that you are here, perhaps you are searching for something? As CS Lewis wrote in his state of atheism. "I knew the hound was on my heels." May God heal your heart and bring you new life. It's the only life to live, I've been on the other side. How is one saved? Turn from sin. Believe in your heart and confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord. Trust me in this. The saved are eternally saved and the lost are eternally damned. Time to get on the right team.
A failure to worship. Worshipping idols instead of the creator. Everytime, this reveals and leads to sexual perversion. Somehow, someway. An idol is anything you love more, fear more, and value more than Almighty God. TOO SOPHISTICATED. Shameful idolatry in the heart. Man will take the worst vice and deify it. To legitimize it. 1.Willful self determination. 2. Wicked self deception. 3. Woeful self destruction. Still time to turn. Ask Jesus to reveal himself to you.I challenge you.
Atheism is founded on arrogance. It is truly arrogant and ignorant when all of creation testifies and proves and reveals God to man, you for an argument sake, sputter and rant like the spirtually blind man that you are.
@sandworm3 "Sputter"? How exactly does "all of creation" "prove" God to man? You are simply sputtering now with a statement like that. Back it up. Again, I recommend the "Why people laugh at Creationists" youtube videos. They demonstrate how brainwashed and indoctrinated people like you are. They are logical, rational and scientific. Something which you clearly are not.
@Kochofication You must a a young boy that does his research by "media" alone... highly subject to opinion and manipulations. You set up a strawman with whatever you say is statistical, which you have not cited a single one or source other that a youtube video? Our country is free, you may live in one with a great deal of restriction, where ya from? Your strawman is blown away by what this nation has done and it's heritage of heroes.
@sandworm3 You are deluded. I did cite my statistics, (the UN human development Index? Remember? Look it up!) I am from Australia, which like almost every other Western Democracy is far more "free" than the repressed US. And what has your nation "done" lately? With your education eroding with fiascoes like "teach the controversy" you have contributed very little (outside the IT industry) in the past thirty years. Stealing German scientists after WW2 is what contributed to your "Greatness".
@Kochofication Creation revealed to man. "For since the creation of the world God's invisible qualities-his eternal power and divine nature-have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made so that men are without excuse." Romans 1:20 then vs. 21-For although they knew God, they neither glorified hime as God or gave thanks to Him, but their thinking became futile and their foolish hearts were darkened. Although they claimed to be wise, they became fools and (see next!)
@Kochofication (Next!) became fools and exchanged the glory of the immortal God for images made to look like mortal man and birds and animals and reptiles. Therefore GOD GAVE THEM OVER. (This should be hitting home right about now to your condition of darkness) Turn to I Corinthains 1:18 - For the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing. IT IS WRITTEN: :I will destroy the wisdom of the wisel the intelligence of the intelligent I will frustrate."
@sandworm3 (Next) You ask me to "turn" to the bible and selected passages but it seems that that is the only book you read. You seem like a very poorly read and poorly educated, brainwashed individual. Tell me, have you ever left the US? Have you ever left your state even? You haven't have you? You should expand your horizons and travel a bit. Find out how people outside your "Great" country live.
@sandworm3 (Next) You ask me to "turn" to the bible and selected passages but it seems that that is the only book you read. You seem like a very poorly read and poorly educated, brainwashed individual. Tell me, have you ever left the US? Have you ever left your state even? You haven't have you? You should expand your horizons and travel a bit. Find out how people outside your "Great" country live.
@sandworm3 (Next2) You should put down your bible for a second and read "The Greatest show on earth: The evidence for evolution" by Richard Dawkins. It is a complete account of the evidence for evolution written for the lay man (although, still likely too heavy and complicated for you). Also "Letter to a Christian Nation" By Sam Harris. The book is addressed at you, the Christian, and clearly demonstrates how irrational you are. These are both worldwide bestsellers and highly regarded books.
@Kochofication (Sophisticated Ignorance)-God has revealed himself to you in your being and has revealed himself to you in creation around you. You have obviously made the decision to suppress the truth for a lie.You have an inner witness called conscience. You have a God shaped vacuum in your heart. Down deep in your sub-conscous you are LYING. Atheists are lying and sadly, you may not even know it. It is shown to you, you were born with this consciousness. Next witness is creation.Undeniable
@sandworm3 Design and designer show there is God. Revelation, reach of truth to every man and woman. Sadly, you demonstrate the resistance of truth. Suppress, repress, smother, stifle, hold down the truth. Putting out your own eyes. Willful blindness is not only tragic but wicked. I see you hate and resist the idea of God. Placing faith in nothing times nothing equals everything. Your problem isn't intellectual, it's a heart problem. "The fool has said in his heart there is no God"
@sandworm3 You still haven't answered my question. HAVE YOU EVER LEFT YOUR STATE? If so, what about your country? I take it you haven't. You keep dodging my questions like you dodge reality. Why on earth would anyone presume that a hick like you would actually read (anythin other than the bible). Or be rational.
@Kochofication Naw, I'm not a hick. Just one beggar telling another where to find bread. Furthest I've been is Mexico and Canada. As far as reading the bible exclusively? Where else should we go for wisdom? To quote Peter- "Lord, to whom shall we go? You have the words of eternal life." and to quote Matthew - "Man does not live on bread alone, but on every word that comes from the mouth of God." Mt.4:4
@sandworm3 Oh, and have you watched that short series yet? Or are you afraid to see the evidence lest you be forced to accept evolution as a fact? The first few (there's 32 or so) won't convince you but once you get to around 11 or 12, you might not question God but you'll definitely question the story of creation that has been pumped into your head.
@Kochofication I don't access or validate that kind of MEDIA as credible for anything. If you want to eat out of the garbage pail and through the bottom, go right ahead. And just what is overwhelming? Nothing times nothing equals everything? hahahaha. Evidence? None exists. Once again, the link isn't the problem... the whole chain is missing.
@Kochofication Evolution, the biggest FAIRY TALE EVER! hahahaha. Keep looking for the missing link you orphan of the apes.... The whole chain is missing you super charged ape. Even Darwin at the end, frustrated and destroyed, confessed to himself being wrong and to throw the whole thing away. So, goo man, c'mon at me with your big ideas any day. Keep on sputtering your frustrated wisdom that will never produce fruit. You are a fruitless vine. Where's the axe?
@sandworm3 Missing link? Homo erectus, Homo ergasta, Australopithecus garhi, Australopithecus africanus, Australopithecus afarensis, Australopithecus anamensis etc, etc. All of these are fossils found that are our ancestors and "missing links".
You really talking out of your a@# aren't you? I take it, from the failure to address the question, that you indeed have never left your state let alone your country.
@Kochofication The problem is not in your head, but in your heart. Willful self-determination, repress, hold back and smother the truth. Man's wicked self deception. When you decide to go your own way you decieve yourself. When you resist truth, you will believe a lie, nature denies and despises a vacuum. Selfish indiffernce. No thankfulness or glory to God from you. When you fail to give God glory, your heart will be darkened.Professing to be wise, you are a fool.Too intelligent to believe.
@sandworm3 And you've failed to address any of the topics we've discussed. You've been proven wrong. Atheism isn't founded on arrogance and you certainly have displayed ignorance.
@Kochofication You walk in spiritual darkness, you cannot understand or hear. The true ignorance rests upon you, denying the one who created you. You pump out vast generalities with no sitings of your information... is this a forum with limited characters to try and banter with your foolishness and anti american rants?
@sandworm3 Siting? Try the United Nations Human development index. Funnily enough you've actually gone up in recent years. Could it be due to your "Godless, Socialist" new president? Obama reversed Bush's backward and stupid ban on stem cell funding, introduced universal healthcare (Something that everyone else already had) and you climbed a few spots on the index (though it is a little misleading with your gross disparity of income as GDP is a factor).
@sandworm3 And if you bothered to read what I wrote my two most damning replies were actually quotes from Sam Harris. A far more educated and thoughtful person than you or I. He's American. His "rants" aren't anti American. They're just facts. But facts don't mean much to you do they? I suppose you're a person who believes in creation despite the mass of varying, independent evidence that supports evolution.
@Kochofication Don't know Sam Harris. Educated and thoughtful is relative... depends on what you've fed your mind. Your "facts" are just generalities against Americans and a great nation with a great history. Evolution is not supported... greatest fairy tale for adults EVER! A frog turns into a prince... whose ignorant?
@sandworm3 Evolution is supported. It is observed, supported through fossil evidence in the strata and supported by genetics. No real scientist doubts it. The evidence for it is overwhelming. Research it!
What you call generalities are statistics. Are there exceptions? Of course there are. But they still paint a poor picture of your great nation. Especially the statistic that gives you the proportion of Americans that doubt evolution. No other educated western democracy has numbers like that
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WOTM teach works salvation according to the bible, here is 100% proof:
Jonah 3:10 And God saw THEIR WORKS, that they turned from their evil way; and God repented of the evil, that he had said that he would do unto them; and he did it not.
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wotmarenotsaved 2 months ago
who's the Christian and who's the non-Christian?
mariomario8888 11 months ago
@sandworm3 Quote: " Prideful self proclaimed wisdom made foolish by the light of truth." What "truth"? That Evolution is "Just a theory"? Well as I've pointed out, you don't even know the definition of theory. That Christianity is a better way? I've already sited evidence that proved secularism creates better societies. That the Bible is the infallible word of God? Well I've proven that Genesis has been refuted. You are a rational person? I've proven you're a moron. Nothing self proclaimed!
Kochofication 11 months ago
@sandworm3 You started with the personal attacks only yours were lose assumptions. Mine I've backed up with examples and have proven them. I used something called evidence. I know you don't like evidence but it carries a lot of weight and trumps talking s#$t (which is all you've done) every time.
Kochofication 11 months ago
@Kochofication Naw, your full of venom and absent of joy. I wonder where this comes from. It more than likely must have something to do with something you have going on and the authority has spoken on it. I dunno, just by visiting your channel, my guess is some sort of perversion that you cling to and want bondage. There is great freedom in being a Christian. Slave to sin no more, the flesh is no longer in control.
sandworm3 11 months ago
@sandworm3 What's wrong with my Channel? And how do you know that I'm "absent of joy"? How can I take what you write seriously when you make ridiculous assumptions like that? Venom? If it was unfounded it would be venom (like what you write about me) I have proven you're an idiot so it's not a venomous attack. It's just stating a fact.
Kochofication 11 months ago
@Kochofication How inappropriate your favorite videos are. That is some weird and vulgar stuff to favorite. Your not going to like this but do you know where joy comes from? You got it, Joy comes from the Lord. You can try to immitate it or fill that void with as much stuff as you can but it's all going to be ashes. True joy and contentment comes from the Lord.
sandworm3 11 months ago
@sandworm3 Which ones? Only one that remotely satisfies that description. The one with Rocco Siffredi. I recoment you look him up. The man is king.
Kochofication 11 months ago
@sandworm3 Just wikipeadia the guy. Now that man has alot of Joy!
Kochofication 11 months ago
@Kochofication Time to actually read the word friend. All 66 books correlate seamless and perfect together. God's love story of his pursuit of his people and children. That's you and me. The gospel account. John was Jesus's most beloved disciple. He not only wrote the account from walking with Jesus, but was blessed to write the book of the Revelation. Luke was a doctor, can't remember about Mark, he might have been a student of Paul, but Matthew the tax collector, yes another eye witness.
sandworm3 11 months ago
@sandworm3 Moron! No serious scholar actually attributes the Gospel of John to the apostle John. You are a "Christian" and you do not know the controversy that has surrounded its authorship since the second century? Or are you being deliberately misleading? How very Christian of you. Evangelists wouldn't lie would they? John was the last Gospel written and most scholars date it between 90 and 100. Some even 120AD. That's alot of Chinese whispers! Idiot!
Kochofication 11 months ago
@Kochofication There is no controversy. John is the author. Who are the self proclaimed scholars? Oh let me guess, that group of heretics without credential, the Jesus Seminar? Please humor me and tell me this is so.
sandworm3 11 months ago
@sandworm3 No mate. Almost ALL historians and scholars. You're not going to go down the "Project Steve" road again are you?
Kochofication 11 months ago
Number one you are on a Christian video site. People that have it know it, and they understand your condition. Ramble as you wish about this and that, they are just contentions and foolish arguments. I am more concerned about the gospel and you more so than monkey skeletons and who thinks they are more advanced than the other b.s. Time to realize, one human family, all in this together. Life is short, today is the day of salvation, how do we bring you to Calvary?
sandworm3 1 year ago
@sandworm3 " I am more concerned about the gospel and you more so than monkey skeletons " The funny (well pathetic) thing is that you have no idea how stupid you sound. You have no idea about evolution yet you talk as though you can disprove it. You are completely ignorant of the facts. Outside your community you'd be a laughing stock. Indeed I'm sure that there are many within that do laugh at you. (try expanding your reading beyond the bible)
Kochofication 1 year ago
@Kochofication Always back to the monkey theories and foolish controversies. My very best for you and to you-God desires all men to be saved. "For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life. Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe in him stands condemned already because he he has not believed in the name of God's one and only Son. (Cont)
sandworm3 1 year ago
@sandworm3 "back to the monkey theories and foolish controversies" - You truly can't understand how ignorant and idiotic you sound making statements like that do you?
Kochofication 1 year ago
@Kochofication What really is ignorant and idiotic is trying to justify that nothing times nothing created everything. From extreme chaos came order. Which came first, the evolving of your lungs or your heart? Oh let me guess, the chaos, shaken up enough, formed it all in perfect balance. Let me throw an engine, a transmission, some wipers, doors, radio, nuts, screws, steering wheel, brakes, out of an airplane and say give it enough time and it will make a cadillac.Sorry, you have a builder.
sandworm3 1 year ago
@Kochofication (cont). This is the verdict: Light has come into the world, but men loved darkness instead of light because their deeds were evil. Everyone who does evil hates the light, and will not come into the light for fear that his deeds will be exposed. But whoever lives by the truth comes into the light so that it may be seen plainly that what he has done has been done through God." You say you don't believe. Challenge: Ask this Jesus to show himself to you.
sandworm3 1 year ago
Where does one begin? The seeker will often find that he was the one being sought. Begin with the gospel of John. We have to start at Calvary. This is where everything is going to begin to make sense. Don't ignore Calvary and become an eternal tragedy.
sandworm3 1 year ago
@sandworm3 More preaching. How about sticking to evidence to support your arguments? You still haven't explained fossil evidence (I take it you concede evolution is real) and you haven't explained why secular societies around the world are more advanced than religious ones.
Kochofication 1 year ago
@sandworm3 Seeing that I now told you the definition of "Deism" and that you have no reply to that I take it you concede that your founding fathers were secularists rather than Christian. So why do you argue that your country needs to turn back to God and then extoll the founding fathers in the same breath? You have contradicted yourself again and again throughout this forum. You've dug a huge hole for yourself. Your arguments about atheism have been destroyed.
Kochofication 1 year ago
@Kochofication To go way back, which is why I iggy you on that. I said the founding father's were deists. They didn't work Christ into the language. They speak of God much and as a force above all things.
sandworm3 1 year ago
@sandworm3 Yes the founding Father's were deists. Then why push the Bible and theistic belief as the thing that will save society? You have written numerous times that people need to turn back to Christianity and the bible, not just a vague belief in a higher power. By your own definition the founding fathers were "perverted" and "joyless" and morally corrupt. You're words! read through your posts.
Kochofication 1 year ago
@Kochofication (cont) We have a response in this. Acknowledging ourselves as sinners, believing by faith in the death, burial and resurrection of the Lord Jesus Christ, and confessing with our mouth and bending the knee that he is Lord. May you receive this gospel and the power it has to change lives. Time to lay aside the rabbit trail conversation and get out of the briar patch. Today is the day of salvation. If you hear his voice do not harden your heart. Grace and Peace.
sandworm3 1 year ago
@sandworm3 Why should I be "believing by faith in the death, burial and resurrection of the Lord Jesus Christ"? There is no EVIDENCE for this. The bible is a poorly written literary garbage. I've read it. How can any person of reasonable intelligence believe it? Why is blind faith a virtue? You think it's a good thing but I think it is stupid and gullible.
Kochofication 1 year ago
I'll refresh your memory and I love this! -We are created in His image in that we are a tri-unity. God is Father, Son and Holy Spirit. Man is body, soul and spirit. We resemble God in that we have emotion, intellect; will and ability to create NOT just procreate. We have dominion and authority to rule over creation. We have the capability to choose between good and evil. God has given these features to humans and that is what separates us from the animal world.
sandworm3 1 year ago
@sandworm3 More prosthelytizing.
Kochofication 1 year ago
Watching this just re-enforces the idea that religion is a form of SLAVERY that is enforced mainly through FEAR.
worktosser 1 year ago
@sandworm3 WHY DO YOU KEEP IGNORING THE FOLLOWING? PLEASE EXPLAIN: Homo erectus, Homo ergasta, Australopithecus garhi, Australopithecus africanus, Australopithecus afarensis, Australopithecus anamensis.
Kochofication 1 year ago
You are way out of your league to criticise all the good that all these charities have done in some of the most horrible places on the planet. I have been where you are before, empty, absent of joy, and lost. I can tell you where the medicine is, you need to decide for yourself. There is no other name by which men can be saved. First I got saved from myself, next saved from condemnation. Please consider this.Jesus came to save sinners. No one too bad to be saved, none too good that need not.
sandworm3 1 year ago
@sandworm3 I don't feel empty or joyless at all. Thanks for your concern but can you please address the points I brought up in our debate about Evolution instead of constantly ignoring them? You just look stupid doing so. Particularly dodging my list of humanities "transitional species". I've listed them and you've ignored them and insisted that none have been found!
Kochofication 1 year ago
@sandworm3 You clearly know nothing about Evolution. We are not "Supercharged" monkeys and we did not, as it is commonly believed, evolve from chimpanzees. We share a common ancestor with chimpanzees. Try learning about the thing that you are trying to refute. You sound very stupid otherwise.
Kochofication 1 year ago
@Kochofication (next) naw, I understand more than enough of evolution. Enough to know that Darwin was right when he said, trash this in 120 if you don't find the transitional specie. Still looking. I'll catch any new readers and you up again because you are not listening. The missing link cannot be found, why? The whole chain is missing. Nothing times nothing cannot create everything. Your eyes and brain alone will tell you when you see everything made, there is a builder. Peace.
sandworm3 1 year ago
@sandworm3 Mate, I already went through your "transitional species" as you like to call them (proof that you don't know "enough" about Evolution). Remember the fossils I listed all the way to Homo sapiens??? You really are brainwashed. You just completely ignore what I write and pick out the bits you like. You are delusional. No wonder the world (and other Christians) laughs at Evangelists.
Kochofication 1 year ago
@Kochofication I don't follow the skeletons you refer to as proof other than another form of an extinct monkey. How is that a stepping stone to being a human? No proof. I see a monkey and I say, ah a monkey. You see a monkey and see your relatives. No wonder you want to behave like an animal. I explained earlier what separates animals from humans quite articulately.
sandworm3 1 year ago
@sandworm3 You're kidding right? They look less and less like "monkeys" the futher along the chain you get. Their brains size is almost as large as humans and some (Neanderthal and Cromagnon man) co-existed with humans. Scientists (i.e. project steve) overwhelmingly agree on evolution. Why are they wrong and you right? You still haven't explained the evidence. You've just dismissed it! Really clever!!!
Kochofication 1 year ago
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@sandworm3 How was Abraham Lincoln a "Great Christian" when he never formally joined a church? There is debate about Lincolns religiosity (great debate) and yet you call him a "Great Christian". You just keep making things up don't you? Tell me, how does God feel about your deceit?
Kochofication 1 year ago
We are created in His image in that we are a tri-unity. God is Father, Son and Holy Spirit. Man is body, soul and spirit. We resemble God in that we have emotion, intellect; will and ability to create NOT just procreate. We have dominion and authority to rule over creation. We have the capability to choose between good and evil. God has given these features to humans and that is what separates us from the animal world.
sandworm3 1 year ago
@sandworm3 "We have dominion and authority to rule over creation". It is that arrogant attitude that is skewing the debate over climate change and the like. With that attitude we do nothing but use and abuse our surroundings. Again you turn to a book written by men (a rather poorly written book by the way) that is highly inaccurate rather than physical evidence.
Kochofication 1 year ago
@Kochofication (next) Having authority over creation is a privilege and great responsibility. Read the bible, it calls the follower to be a steward over everything. A steward doesn't own, the very meaning of the word is manager over someone else's property, originally pigs, (sty warden). With that, you cannot be more innaccurate charging that a Christian would abuse his/her surroundings. We understand who made it all and stand in awe at everything He has made. Privilege and responsibility.
sandworm3 1 year ago
@sandworm3 Technology has given us power over all nature. That is it. Inaccurate charging Christians abusing their surroundings? Tell me, in your country alone, how many Evangelists deny global warming? I'd venture to say all of them again denying science. But why? Because of that attitude that the world is ours to use and abuse. Your Evangelist former president even started a war over a grab of resources that he could use.
Kochofication 1 year ago
@Kochofication I myself don't deny global warming, what the heck does that have to do with being a Christian or not? The attitude of use of the world is correct... abuse?-that's not a Christian value nor should it be a value of anyone.
sandworm3 1 year ago
@sandworm3 Then we are on the same page here. But I argue that abuse of this world can be atributed, at least in part, to Christianity and other religions. If you believe you have dominion over the natrual world the likelyhood for abuse is high.
Kochofication 1 year ago
@Kochofication Incorrect. Once again, dominion brings privilege and responsibility. Stewardship man. Stewardship.
sandworm3 1 year ago
Naw, I'm not warming up to evolution. Who could embrace the foolish idea that you are a supercharged monkey or orphan of the apes. Funny.
sandworm3 1 year ago
@sandworm3 You clearly know nothing about Evolution. We are not "Supercharged" monkeys and we did not, as it is commonly believed, evolve from chimpanzees. We share a common ancestor with chimpanzees. Try learning about the thing that you are trying to refute. You sound very stupid otherwise.
Kochofication 1 year ago
You ask for statistics. I guess I could go to Samaritans Purse, Voice of the Martrys, Food for the Poor, etc, etc, etc. and show you what the church has done in the name of Christ, but you are fully capable of seeing and hearing for yourself. Check it out if you are so hungry for statisics. Your attack on Christianity and it's outreach is completely unfounded, I would hate to harbor an attitude and character like that, absent of joy.
sandworm3 1 year ago
@sandworm3 Unfounded? Secular charities are far more affective than Christian ones. They don't undermine thier good work with preaching against condoms in a high HIV area.
Kochofication 1 year ago
@sandworm3 "Your attack on Christianity and it's outreach is completely unfounded" Is It? How many people in Africa needlessly contract HIV because "Christian" charities refuse to teach people about safe sex and only preach abstinence? Secular organisations do good without committing bad at the same time. And I question the motivation of missionaries and Christian charities. Is it truly to help people or merely to spread the "word"?
Kochofication 1 year ago
@Kochofication Don't know quite where to begin with you. Here's a start. Help me to understand your attack on Christianity? In two centuries the faith exploded. Why? Because it drives people to care for other people and that my friend is the focus. Jesus gave us two great commandments that basically sum up the 10. Love the Lord your God with all your heart, soul and mind and strength and love your neighbor as yourself. It drives you to care for the human family.
sandworm3 1 year ago
@sandworm3 Modern Christianity is rather benign. Evangelism (and to a far lesser extent Catholicism) is incredibly dangerous. Take science for example. You erode science and brainwash your children against it. You disregard the scientific method which is responsible for your high standard of living and longer life expectancy today. You seek to dumb down humanity and I'm afraid that if Evangelism or Islam for that matter take over our standard of living will plummet.
Kochofication 1 year ago
@Kochofication Weird. You blame the AIDS crisis on Christian outreach and charity? How old are you? You'll like this- let's place the monkey on the right back. Can we not take accountability for our fallen nature and know that sex outside of marriage leads to these pestilences? When the flesh rules the body, you are free to choose, but you are not free to choose the consequences. I think of all the good amongst a bad situation that the missionaries are doing. Time for a new heart brother.
sandworm3 1 year ago
@sandworm3 What a load of rubbish. Fine, if you want to preach that guilt ridden crap do it, but what is wrong with teaching safe sex along side it? After all you acknowledge that we are all "sinners". So why not take precautions that if a person "falls" he is still protected from this appalling virus? It's as though you think HIV/AIDS is a just punishment for someone having sex before they marry. That's just evil man. Not Christ like at all!
Kochofication 1 year ago
Do not be conformed to this world, but transformed by the renewing of your mind.
sandworm3 1 year ago
@sandworm3 Does renewing your mind involve ignoring evidence? You have ducked and weaved in our debate on Evolution. I gave you some facts that you can easily look up and verify and asked how they fit in with creation and you have simply ignored them and merely prosthelytised.
Kochofication 1 year ago
@Kochofication You have not given any facts. Spontaneous unigensis or whatever is an out to lunch theory. Nothing thimes nothing created everything? "See to it that no one takes you captive through hollow or deceptive philosophies, which depends on human tradition and basic principles of this world rather than on Christ." Colossians 2:8 key word - CAPTIVE.
sandworm3 1 year ago
@sandworm3 "Nothing thimes nothing created everything?" So you're saying Nothing times Nothing created God? You see how you contradict yourself? Or are you too brainwashed to?
Kochofication 1 year ago
@sandworm3: "Educated and thoughtful is relative..." Your words. For someone who dismisses relativism you sure like to use it when it suits you!!!
Kochofication 1 year ago
@Kochofication Relativism is a foul stench to the world culture. Each person in their own depravity inventing their own version of truth to justify their wickedness and inquity. It's all about sin brother. Deny God, put yourself on the throne, I can do what I want. That is the mantra- coincidently the same as lucifer's before the fall - Let my will be done, not yours. The Christian, bends the knee, Lord, let your will be done. Blessing flows. Don't follow a loser, time to examine oneself.
sandworm3 1 year ago
@sandworm3 Again, you employ relativism when it suits you. Tell me, if you are so for Moral Absolutes what about all the slavery in the Bible? The Bible clearly advocates slavery. Do you believe it to be immoral to be a slave owner? Of course you do. Why? Because of modern, secular morality! Reasoned discussion on the subject has tempered people religious "morals" of bigotry and savagery and selfishness.
Kochofication 1 year ago
@Kochofication Coincendently, I was reading some social law from Exodus. The slavery argument, that day was a patriarchal society, Moses, was not in favor of slavery, but established law so that they were treated fairly. That was part of the culture at the time. Abraham Lincoln, a great Christian president, what is he most remembered for? Emmancipation proclomation. The supreme court had placed the value of a person as the same as furniture.
sandworm3 1 year ago
@sandworm3 You harp on about Abraham Lincoln yet it was the confederates that claimed to have "God on our side" when it came to the slavery debate. And they were right!
Kochofication 1 year ago
@sandworm3 How was Abraham Lincoln a "Great Christian" when he never formally joined a church? There is debate about Lincolns religiosity (great debate) and yet you call him a "Great Christian". You just keep making things up don't you? Tell me, how does God feel about your deceit?
Kochofication 1 year ago
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"The bible remains infallible...many have tried to disprove it" Are you out of your mind? Creation, the biggest and greatest screwup in the bible, has been utterly destroyed. Look at the geological evidence, the strata, radioactive dating. Look at the fossils in the strata and where they are found. Look at the "transitional" species as you like to call them. If one rabbit or human fossil is ever found in the same strata as a dinosaur, evolution is destroyed. IT HAS NEVER HAPPENED!
Kochofication 1 year ago
@Kochofication (continued) If they were all created at the same time why aren't there any bunny rabbits found in the same strata as dinosaurs? If all the species reemerged from Noah's Ark why don't we find a pattern of species distributed with a clear epicenter? Why do we have platypuses only in Australia? WHy none near mt Ararat? Why aren't there any Giraffes on the Galapagos Islands? Did they head straight for Africa? Why aren't there any in Germany?
Kochofication 1 year ago
@Kochofication I think our knowledge of the strata is only in a beginning phase.When did the digging first occur but in the 1800's?That is a very short window to the present to think that we have unlocked the mysteries of creation. It is a joy to work with this stuff and stand in awe at how He did it.The creation that surrounds you is but a mere reflection of God's character.His artistry and precision.You don't honestly think that nothing times nothing could bring the diversity that you see?
sandworm3 1 year ago
@sandworm3 "I think our knowledge of the strata is only in a beginning phase." Now you just made that up. It doesn't matter what you "think". Back up that statement. We have a fairly complete understanding of geological strata. Stop making ridiculous assumptions about science when things don't back up what the Bible says.
Kochofication 1 year ago
@Kochofication Again BACK UP your statement about "I think our knowledge of the strata is only in a beginning phase." You can;t can you? And you continue to dodge questions about the evidence for evolution. This whole dabate has just been you talking out of yur @#s. You are out of your depth here.
Kochofication 1 year ago
@Kochofication Don't know where all the animals scattered after the flood receded. Best I can sum is that these herds, etc, being migratory, went to the habitats that suited them and were created for them. The animals of Africa, travel great distances, some of the biggest migrations upon the planet.
sandworm3 1 year ago
@sandworm3 "Best I can sum is that these herds, etc, being migratory, went to the habitats ". Best you can Sum??? Why assume when science explains? You are just making stuff up. You are making stuff up without evidence. Look at the evidence!!!
Kochofication 1 year ago
The funny thing is I give you information and statistics that you can look up and fact check and all you do is prosthelytise with your bible verses. What evidence do you have for creation that hasn't been utterly refuted?
Kochofication 1 year ago
@Kochofication What has been refuted? The science you seek is all there in Genesis 1. Time.Force.Space.Matter. In the beginning(Time) God created(Force) the heavens and the earth(space and matter). Creation was completely supernatural and miraculous. You are trying to connect natural law to this when it played no part. Here comes another bible verse to rebuke your unbelieving heart and your words without knowledge. Job 38: Please read, this is a dandy.
sandworm3 1 year ago
@sandworm3 Adam? Eve? Noah's Ark? Seven days? Creation of species? All refuted.
Kochofication 1 year ago
@Kochofication Adam, Eve, Noah, Seven Days, Creation of all species- viable and very real, the evolutionist cannot disprove any of it, but present theory opposing. Back to Jesus, He can give you new eyes, and a new mind, heart, so you can see these things and understand. Salvation isn't about getting man into heaven, it's about getting God out of heaven and into man.
sandworm3 1 year ago
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@sandworm3 "Adam, Eve, Noah, Seven Days, Creation of all species- viable and very real, the evolutionist cannot disprove.." AGAIN, how do you explain the fossil record? How do you explain those "Transitional" species? Remember A. apithecus, A africanus etc. You haven't addressed those at all! How do you explain the fact that we are almost identical, genetically, to Chimpanzees? How do you explain vestigial organs? i.e. appendix.
Kochofication 1 year ago
@sandworm3 "Creation of all species- viable and very real, the evolutionist cannot disprove any of it, but present theory opposing." DID I NOT post the definition to the word Theory here on this post? Have you been ignoring the bits that your "Christian" mind simply can't deal with? Typical!
Kochofication 1 year ago
I am beginning to think you know nothing of science. The only source that has been quoted is a youtube spoof on 'why creationists are laughed at'. It's a dangerous world when psuedo intellectuals such as yourself let the internet shape your thinking to the extent that you are pulled and tossed in the current of whatever comes your way.
sandworm3 1 year ago
@sandworm3 Why do almost all scientists from various fields accept evolution? THey are far brighter than you or your hero the "Banana Man". Evangelism is a retardant to society just as other fundamentalist religions, i.e Islam, Mormonism are. How could you possibly accept genesis as literally accurate when science has utterly refuted it. Not just evolution. Geology refutes genesis. The earth has been dated at 4.5 billion years by numerous independent measuring techniques.
Kochofication 1 year ago
@Kochofication Brilliantly stupid. Nothing times nothing created everything. That is a retardant in itself. Defies even the basic laws of thermodynamics. How can you create matter from nothing? All the mentioned has never been proven but is steeped in theory of how it happened.
sandworm3 1 year ago
@sandworm3 No one knows how it all began. And science says something that "humble" Christians never say..."We don't know", but here's a question....who created the creator?
Kochofication 1 year ago
@Kochofication Answer:Nobody.He has always existed.You can't unfold that mystery because you and I are finite. We see everything through the lens of a beginning and an end.The bible teaches that He has always existed,and He being a Triune. As you say,"evolution is destroyed, it never happened." Very true.If you are looking at literal time as 6 days of creating,that could be or a day or millinia,not sure, both are possible.The days of creation are simply set as that there was a time of creating.
sandworm3 1 year ago
@sandworm3 "Nothing times nothing created everything." Why do you not accept that for matter but you then in the next breath claim that "He has always existed." Can you see how you contradicted yourself there?
Kochofication 1 year ago
@Kochofication You have to find your absolutes. If you are a relativist, each person makes their own truth in turn is that there is no truth at all and negates any possibility of absolutes. Moral relativism spawns a brood of confused individuals. Jesus said, "I am the way, the truth, and the life, no one comes to the Father except through me." Jesus makes many references to his divine nature as creator many times in the bible, also references that he has always been.Finite mind cannot get it.
sandworm3 1 year ago
@sandworm3 While I agree with your statement about relativism (I too find it irritating and stupid) you can not apply absolutes to morals all the time. i.e. When Ray asks "are you a lier " you have to say yes. But does that automatically make you a bad person? I hate relativism as much as you do but if you lie to the Nazis while hiding Jews in the attic, I'm sorry but you don't have to be a relativist to see that that lie is NOT morally reprehensible and you will NOT go to hell because of it.
Kochofication 1 year ago
@Kochofication Ray is simply getting a person to agree that they are a sinner as we all are. You may be a good person, reality is, you sin, why? because of the fallen nature.The going to hell part comes in where you leave the savior out. The atonement was made on our behalf.God did not spare his only son. Do you think we should be spared? compared to the perfect life that Jesus led? The point is, you have received a free gift, grace. We receive it by faith not by works so that none can boast.
sandworm3 1 year ago
@sandworm3 So what you're saying is that Ray states the obvious (we are human) and then somehow ties that in as a reason for being saved because of some book? Again we revert to the original argument. "Christian" or indeed any religious societies are far inferior and less humane than secular ones. Look up the statistics!
Kochofication 1 year ago
@Kochofication The greatest statistic ever is the first church that exploded faith to the world. This Jesus was so different from any of the false religions that the world had embraced.. He cared for the sick, poor, outcast, and the sinner. He did not come for the healthy but for the sick. "It is not the healthy that need a doctor, but the sick. I have not come to call the righteous, but sinners" Mark 2:17 Christians care for the sick, the poor and the needy, we are His hands and feet.
sandworm3 1 year ago
@sandworm3 "Educated and thoughtful is relative..." Your words. For someone who dismisses relativism you sure like to use it when it suits you!!!
Kochofication 1 year ago
@Kochofication If you believe that this is all there is and deny eternity, the answer you seek is in you finite thinking. You refuse to believe in an existance past this. Even though the reality is, you deceive yourself. You can't escape that inner wiring, that keeps reminding you of your creator. You can fill up all you want on this secular stuff, but you cannot deny your inner programming. sorry.
sandworm3 1 year ago
@sandworm3 I actually sort of agree with you here. We are hardwired to believe in an afterlife or creator etc. Furthermore indoctrination by parents has affected 99% of the world population and is extremely difficult to overcome. We are also uncomfortable with the unknown and are prone to make up our own answers to questions we can't answer. It's called Argument from ignorance and it is a well known frailty of the human condition. Psychologists have known about it for years.
Kochofication 1 year ago
@Kochofication You call it indoctrination. I call it love. Are you a father? Who wouldn't want the very best for their children? Who wouldn't want to instill virtue and morals that will lead to a life of blessing? These same virtues will protect your children from danger. Those "do not do's" in the bible are there because God doesn't want you to hurt yourself. Test them all out. Everyone of them. Are sexual limits there to be a killjoy? No! They keep you safe and society.
sandworm3 1 year ago
@sandworm3 Every parent would want the very best for their children. But why would you want to teach them obvious falsehoods? (due to the lack of your coherent reply to our Evolution debate and failure to address the details i.e fossil evidence etc., I will assume that you are beginning to warm to the fact that creationism is demonstrably wrong). How is that love and not indoctrination?
Kochofication 1 year ago
@Kochofication How is creationism demonstratably wrong when the physical world is all around you? Interesting enough, I was listening to Jim Tour, an organic chemist. He works hand in hand with God and science and has been gifted and blessed with brilliance and creativity. He shared that most scientist's have a belief in intelligent design when you speak with them one on one, it's a very small minority that share the thoughts you think science has.
sandworm3 1 year ago
@sandworm3 "How is creationism demonstratably wrong when the physical world is all around you?" Because you can't explain how it got there? You go from I don't know to MAGIC! Well, science doesn't rely on magic. Scientists have examined evidence, tested hpothesis and have PROVEN evolution. Now why would you choose Magic over a tried, tested and proven scientific theory? I gave you the Evidence. Look it up! I've asked you to numerous times now and you keep spouting bible verses at me.
Kochofication 1 year ago
@Kochofication As far as being uncomfortable with the unknown? That doesn't produce faith. That just produces insurance policy holders. God is not mocked. It's all about a relationship that He wants to have with us. Immanuel, It means God With Us. Romans- If God is for us, who can be against us? This is good news. Apart from Christ, no hope. Is your house built on the rock or the sand? Once again, parental love,and far from indoctrination. You will get it when you hold a baby in your arms.
sandworm3 1 year ago
@sandworm3 We have found many transitional species. Even from the last common ancestors with chimpanzees all the way to humans. As I've said before and you just ignored and spewed ridiculous bible verses at me, How do you explain the fossils of Homo erectus, Homo ergasta, Australopithecus garhi, Australopithecus africanus, Australopithecus afarensis, Australopithecus anamensis? Shall I keep going? How do you explain these "Transitional" species? Found any humans with dinosaurs in the strata yet?
Kochofication 1 year ago
@sandworm3 Have you heard of "Project Steve"? Look it up. There are more scientists with the name Steve that support Evolution than ALL "Scientists" who dispute it! There is no "Controversy".
Kochofication 1 year ago
The bible has never been proven fallible. Why? Because it is the infallible word of God. Your wisdom is made foolish by it and will forever be frustrated. It stands the test of time as nothing else can. Which is revelation enough of it's divine nature. In all the world's attempts and self proclaimed brilliance, the wise have always become fools. Praise the Lord.
sandworm3 1 year ago
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@sandworm3 Perhaps if guns weren't so prevalent in your society metal detectors would not be needed in schools. Your gun related death rate if by far the highest in the western world? (Not a "generalisation" but a measured fact) Why is that when the rest of the western world is far more Godless than you?
Kochofication 1 year ago
@sandworm3 "The wise have always become fools"? Talk about generalisation. I don't even know what that means? Wanna be specific? The Bible has been proven fallible. As I've said multiple times and pointed you in the right directions and implored you to even do research for yourself, evolution has been utterly refuted. Look at a real scientific paper instead of a creationist website.
Kochofication 1 year ago
@Kochofication The bible remains infallible because it is the only book that has weathered the test of time. Many have tried to disprove it and all have failed. That is what it means that the wise become fools. Name one, please, just one absolute fact that you can conjure, that disproves the credibility of the bible. Here's the challenge-where can someone with your belief system go for absolutes? There are none, atheists make themselvesselves to be tiny, impudent gods.
sandworm3 1 year ago
@sandworm3 "The bible remains infallible...many have tried to disprove it" Are you out of your mind? Creation, the biggest and greatest screwup in the bible, has been utterly destroyed. Look at the geological evidence, the strata, radioactive dating. Look at the fossils in the strata and where they are found. Look at the "transitional" species as you like to call them. If one rabbit or human fossil is ever found in the same strata as a dinosaur, evolution is destroyed. IT HAS NEVER HAPPENED!
Kochofication 1 year ago
Sandworm:"I don't access or validate that kind of MEDIA as credible for anything"
What, scientific peer review journals aren't credible? Are you insane? They are published for the scrutiny of all scientists around the world and none have successfully refuted evolution. How much scrutiny does the bible stand up to? Children see through it.
Kochofication 1 year ago
@Kochofication Bible has been the best seller of all time dude. Children receive it better than adults do. Oh and by the way... as Jesus says, "You would be better a millstone be tied around your neck and cast into the sea than prevent these little ones from coming to me." You are a stumbling block. Got it? Time to get on the right team. The media I refer to is your youtube soap operas that you keep spamming and think is gospel. hahaha.
sandworm3 1 year ago
@Kochofication Bible has been the best seller of all time dude. Children receive it better than adults do. Oh and by the way... as Jesus says, "You would be better a millstone be tied around your neck and cast into the sea than prevent these little ones from coming to me." You are a stumbling block. Got it? Time to get on the right team. The media I refer to is your youtube soap operas that you keep spamming and think is gospel. hahaha.
sandworm3 1 year ago
It reflects a great deal about your maturity level that you can make such vast generalizations about a country you know very little about. Crazy. I respect the Australian people and government as any other nation in the world provided it pursues the best interests of its people and freedom. Seems kinda childish doesn't it to haggle about that?
sandworm3 1 year ago
@sandworm3 You seem to have forgotten the core of this particular debate.You stated that your country needs to turn back to God to improve itself. The evidence from other western democracies is that it should do the exact opposite. Furthermore, you just said about a government serving the best interests of its people. Your current (more secular) government cares more for its people than your previous one ever did, universal healthcare a prime example, so why all the controversy among Christians?
Kochofication 1 year ago
@Kochofication your crazy, there's been a steady deterioration in America since throwing God out of the school house and moving the metal detectors in. Used to be the biggest infractions were chewing gum and speaking out of turn. Now We have drugs and violence in our schools. The mill grinds slow and sure, removing God and biblical values from our country will bring it's ruin. Sexual perversion is a true sign of a nation on it's last legs. Look back at Egypt, Greece, Rome.
sandworm3 1 year ago
@sandworm3 "Sexual perversion is a true sign of a nation on its last legs"? You are the most sexually repressed country in the western world. That is the source of any perversion that may result. Sure drugs (not sure about violence) has gone up. How exactly does Godlessness correlate to that?
Kochofication 1 year ago
@Kochofication How does godlessness correlate to that? Precisely back to square one of this discussion. Atheism is founded on arrogance and self gratification. Where do you get your values and morals from? The idea of a God and expectation of a standard of morals throws a wet blanket on you. The number one reason, I feel for the choice of unbelief is: Sin. There is an idol there that an individual just cannot stand to part with, so they choose unbelief to live out their debachery.
sandworm3 1 year ago
@sandworm3 How it correlates? Societies can make decisions and laws based on rational debate, not ridiculous moral absolutes of fairytales. "Godless" societies are more advanced. AGAIN, look at the statistics. That is proven fact. You can bury your head in the sand all you like. Evangelists are good at that.
Kochofication 1 year ago
@Kochofication Weird. "Godless societies are more advanced"???That is the ridiculous statement of the day. Really, I am more concerned with you, not society and meaningless generalities. Reality is, you and I are getting older. This is all going to end. We are going to die. You will exist.There is no hiding at that point, the talking will be over, God will be the one talking. Hear this from Hebrews 3:15 "Today, if you hear his voice, do not harden your hearts as you did in the rebellion."
sandworm3 1 year ago
@Kochofication (continued) Today is the day of salvation. Today. I can't scare or argue anyone into salvation, that is not my purpose. How can I present to you a need for the savior? Jesus the one who created you. I saw that need about eight years ago in my own life. Now I know what living is. A new heart and a new mind, new eyes and ears. Believe me, this is the only life to live and heaven is a reward. I want you to have it. Today is the day of salvation.
sandworm3 1 year ago
@Kochofication Evangelicals don't bury their head in the sand, it is a contradiction in terms. Oxymoron. Evangelical means to tell. That is what we do, get engaged in an unbelieving world. I don't want to just scratch backs with other believers. Like a soldier, I want to go after those missing in action. Tell them the good news of Christ, hope and pray they receive it. I will sow the seeds, God will water. More seed is coming your way, God loves you and wants you in his family.
sandworm3 1 year ago
@sandworm3 But burying your head in the sand is exactly what you are doing when dismissing statistical facts as "generalities" and by denying evidence. Evolution is a fact (not "just a theory"[we went through the definitions]). You can't possibly, as a rational person, look at the overwhelming evidence and still deny it. You either don't know anything about about science or are deluded. It is that simple.
Kochofication 1 year ago
@Kochofication There's no overwhelming evidence. Darwin himself even put a time limit on locating transitional specie. 125 years, then throw it out.... Still looking aren't we. Why? Because none exist. As far as fairytales are concerned, the evidence you refer to are the dreams of sophisticatedly ignorant men. Unfortunate. (next)- Christians that laugh at evangelicals aren't Christians. Yet another strange generality, what source does this come from?
sandworm3 1 year ago
@sandworm3 You do realise that even other "Christians" laugh at evangelicals.
Kochofication 1 year ago
@sandworm3 Perhaps if guns weren't so prevalent in your society metal detectors would not be needed in schools. Your gun related death rate if by far the highest in the western world? (Not a "generalisation" but a measured fact) Why is that when the rest of the western world is far more Godless than you?
Kochofication 1 year ago
@Kochofication No defense. It's time for a wake up call in America, the alarm has sounded. Here's what happens when you wake up. First you get cleaned up, then you get dressed up. How does one get cleaned up? Turn to the Lord Jesus Christ. How does one remain clean? Dress up in the Lord Jesus Christ. That is revival. Draw a circle on the floor and let it begin with me. One by one.
sandworm3 1 year ago
@sandworm3"I don't access or validate that kind of MEDIA as credible for anything"
What, scientific peer review journals aren't credible? Are you insane? They are published for the scrutiny of all scientists around the world and none have successfully refuted evolution. How much scrutiny does the bible stand up to? Children see through it.
Kochofication 1 year ago
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@sandworm3"I don't access or validate that kind of MEDIA as credible for anything"
What, scientific peer review journals aren't credible? Are you insane? They are published for the scrutiny of all scientists around the world and none have successfully refuted evolution. How much scrutiny does the bible stand up to? Children see through it.
Kochofication 1 year ago
Sin has separated all from God.Out of his love, He sent His son,Jesus,Immanuel which means "God with us." He understands everything about this broken world.All have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God.Jesus came to save sinners. He lived a perfect life and was crucified and died on our behalf and made a perfect sacrifice in our place.He rose from the grave,the tomb is empty.We will live because He lives. We respond in thanks, we receive this good news by faith and that is Gospel. Amen.
sandworm3 1 year ago
Today is the day of salvation. Do not harden your hearts when you hear his voice. Only a fool boasts of tomorrow and it is a dreadful thing to fall into the hands of the living Lord. How is a man saved? Turn from sin, believe in your heart and confess with your mouth that Christ is Lord.
sandworm3 1 year ago
Again, it is mere speculation. Dreams of men that are too sophisticated to receive what has already been revealed to them. Sadly devoting themselves to a lifelong waste to pursue that which is already known.Christians are not absent to science, we choose to work with our creator as partners to unfold the mysteries of this all. Our brains are not checked at the door as you are tempted to say. I hope to one day explore the world, reach the far places. Does that invalidate me that I have not?
sandworm3 1 year ago
@sandworm3 "not absent to science"? You are absent to reality. The evidence is OVERWHELMING. Read it! Just read it. Even the frickin Pope can accept evolution. Is he not "Christian" enough for you? You have checked you brain at the door. Evangelism is extremism in this respect
As far as you being "Invalidated" with your lack of travel, you are in respect to your comments about your country needing God to improve it when some other countries run so muchbetter and are so much more irreligious.
Kochofication 1 year ago
@Kochofication Show me the contributions that exceed that of the United States. When it comes to humanitarian response, what has or what would atheism do for others? Please tell. After all, your foundations are built around survival of the fittest. Hmm, Germany learned one in that. I am more burdened over your lost soul, than the contentions and rabbit trail you keep leading us on.
sandworm3 1 year ago
@sandworm3 Never doubted US contribution to world history (Although Russia actually saved Europe in WW2). I Questioned US contribution in last 30 years. Humanitarian response? Lets look and HIV and Africa. Secular organisations are far more effective than Christian ones that only add to the problem with their "abstinence" programs. They are evil. Secular organisations do a far better job than any religious charity in tackling the epidemic.
Kochofication 1 year ago
@Kochofication Shows how dumb you can be. The church has done more for feeding and caring for the poor, disaster relief than anything that atheism could ever claim. Jesus Christ turns people outward. The devil(and atheism) turns you inward. Self Self Self, Me Me Me... I bet you're pretty good at looking out for yourself aren't ya? Once again, time to get on the right team.
sandworm3 1 year ago
As far as scientist's that laugh? That's ok. Jesus himself said there will be mockers. I don't live my life to please men that have puffed themselves up in their own wisdom. However, it is the desire of God's heart (and thus mine too) that "All men be saved and come to a knowledge of the truth." I Timothy3-5 (please read!)
sandworm3 1 year ago
@sandworm3 You don't even know the definition of the word theory!
Theory:
1. A set of statements or principles devised to explain a group of facts or phenomena, especially one that has been repeatedly tested or is widely accepted and can be used to make predictions about natural phenomena.
2.An assumption based on limited information or knowledge; a conjecture.
You doubt the theory of gravity? I invite you to then jump off a building.
.
Canada and Mexico? Such a worldly man!
Kochofication 1 year ago
Sandworm, You have dodged my questions throughout the whole argument. Your babbles make no sense. You're just an uneducated hick.
Kochofication 1 year ago
@Kochofication I've attained my degrees, which won't matter much in the end. They provided the door to the job I have, but that doesn't compare to the education that life brings. Does a PhD validate a person? Or a masters? Evolution remains a theory, simply because it cannot be proved. As I said, the link isn't missing, the whole chain is.
sandworm3 1 year ago
The fact that you are here, perhaps you are searching for something? As CS Lewis wrote in his state of atheism. "I knew the hound was on my heels." May God heal your heart and bring you new life. It's the only life to live, I've been on the other side. How is one saved? Turn from sin. Believe in your heart and confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord. Trust me in this. The saved are eternally saved and the lost are eternally damned. Time to get on the right team.
sandworm3 1 year ago
A failure to worship. Worshipping idols instead of the creator. Everytime, this reveals and leads to sexual perversion. Somehow, someway. An idol is anything you love more, fear more, and value more than Almighty God. TOO SOPHISTICATED. Shameful idolatry in the heart. Man will take the worst vice and deify it. To legitimize it. 1.Willful self determination. 2. Wicked self deception. 3. Woeful self destruction. Still time to turn. Ask Jesus to reveal himself to you.I challenge you.
sandworm3 1 year ago
Atheism is founded on arrogance. It is truly arrogant and ignorant when all of creation testifies and proves and reveals God to man, you for an argument sake, sputter and rant like the spirtually blind man that you are.
sandworm3 1 year ago
@sandworm3 "Sputter"? How exactly does "all of creation" "prove" God to man? You are simply sputtering now with a statement like that. Back it up. Again, I recommend the "Why people laugh at Creationists" youtube videos. They demonstrate how brainwashed and indoctrinated people like you are. They are logical, rational and scientific. Something which you clearly are not.
Kochofication 1 year ago
@Kochofication You must a a young boy that does his research by "media" alone... highly subject to opinion and manipulations. You set up a strawman with whatever you say is statistical, which you have not cited a single one or source other that a youtube video? Our country is free, you may live in one with a great deal of restriction, where ya from? Your strawman is blown away by what this nation has done and it's heritage of heroes.
sandworm3 1 year ago
@sandworm3 You are deluded. I did cite my statistics, (the UN human development Index? Remember? Look it up!) I am from Australia, which like almost every other Western Democracy is far more "free" than the repressed US. And what has your nation "done" lately? With your education eroding with fiascoes like "teach the controversy" you have contributed very little (outside the IT industry) in the past thirty years. Stealing German scientists after WW2 is what contributed to your "Greatness".
Kochofication 1 year ago
@Kochofication Creation revealed to man. "For since the creation of the world God's invisible qualities-his eternal power and divine nature-have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made so that men are without excuse." Romans 1:20 then vs. 21-For although they knew God, they neither glorified hime as God or gave thanks to Him, but their thinking became futile and their foolish hearts were darkened. Although they claimed to be wise, they became fools and (see next!)
sandworm3 1 year ago
@Kochofication (Next!) became fools and exchanged the glory of the immortal God for images made to look like mortal man and birds and animals and reptiles. Therefore GOD GAVE THEM OVER. (This should be hitting home right about now to your condition of darkness) Turn to I Corinthains 1:18 - For the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing. IT IS WRITTEN: :I will destroy the wisdom of the wisel the intelligence of the intelligent I will frustrate."
sandworm3 1 year ago
@sandworm3 (Next) You ask me to "turn" to the bible and selected passages but it seems that that is the only book you read. You seem like a very poorly read and poorly educated, brainwashed individual. Tell me, have you ever left the US? Have you ever left your state even? You haven't have you? You should expand your horizons and travel a bit. Find out how people outside your "Great" country live.
Kochofication 1 year ago
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@sandworm3 (Next) You ask me to "turn" to the bible and selected passages but it seems that that is the only book you read. You seem like a very poorly read and poorly educated, brainwashed individual. Tell me, have you ever left the US? Have you ever left your state even? You haven't have you? You should expand your horizons and travel a bit. Find out how people outside your "Great" country live.
Kochofication 1 year ago
@sandworm3 (Next2) You should put down your bible for a second and read "The Greatest show on earth: The evidence for evolution" by Richard Dawkins. It is a complete account of the evidence for evolution written for the lay man (although, still likely too heavy and complicated for you). Also "Letter to a Christian Nation" By Sam Harris. The book is addressed at you, the Christian, and clearly demonstrates how irrational you are. These are both worldwide bestsellers and highly regarded books.
Kochofication 1 year ago
@Kochofication (Sophisticated Ignorance)-God has revealed himself to you in your being and has revealed himself to you in creation around you. You have obviously made the decision to suppress the truth for a lie.You have an inner witness called conscience. You have a God shaped vacuum in your heart. Down deep in your sub-conscous you are LYING. Atheists are lying and sadly, you may not even know it. It is shown to you, you were born with this consciousness. Next witness is creation.Undeniable
sandworm3 1 year ago
@sandworm3 Design and designer show there is God. Revelation, reach of truth to every man and woman. Sadly, you demonstrate the resistance of truth. Suppress, repress, smother, stifle, hold down the truth. Putting out your own eyes. Willful blindness is not only tragic but wicked. I see you hate and resist the idea of God. Placing faith in nothing times nothing equals everything. Your problem isn't intellectual, it's a heart problem. "The fool has said in his heart there is no God"
sandworm3 1 year ago
@sandworm3 You're not the full quid are you mate? You have no idea how stupid you sound.
Kochofication 1 year ago
@Kochofication On the contrary, it is stupid to follow fools and place your faith in a lie. Back at ya.
sandworm3 1 year ago
@sandworm3 So Science is a lie is it? Because evolution is considered fact by 98% of scientists. The other 2% (mostly American) are laughed at.
Kochofication 1 year ago
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@sandworm3 The evidence is all around you. Open your eyes. You have been indoctrinated. Brainwashed.
Kochofication 1 year ago
@sandworm3 You still haven't answered my question. HAVE YOU EVER LEFT YOUR STATE? If so, what about your country? I take it you haven't. You keep dodging my questions like you dodge reality. Why on earth would anyone presume that a hick like you would actually read (anythin other than the bible). Or be rational.
Kochofication 1 year ago
@Kochofication Naw, I'm not a hick. Just one beggar telling another where to find bread. Furthest I've been is Mexico and Canada. As far as reading the bible exclusively? Where else should we go for wisdom? To quote Peter- "Lord, to whom shall we go? You have the words of eternal life." and to quote Matthew - "Man does not live on bread alone, but on every word that comes from the mouth of God." Mt.4:4
sandworm3 1 year ago
@sandworm3 Oh, and have you watched that short series yet? Or are you afraid to see the evidence lest you be forced to accept evolution as a fact? The first few (there's 32 or so) won't convince you but once you get to around 11 or 12, you might not question God but you'll definitely question the story of creation that has been pumped into your head.
Kochofication 1 year ago
@Kochofication I don't access or validate that kind of MEDIA as credible for anything. If you want to eat out of the garbage pail and through the bottom, go right ahead. And just what is overwhelming? Nothing times nothing equals everything? hahahaha. Evidence? None exists. Once again, the link isn't the problem... the whole chain is missing.
sandworm3 1 year ago
@Kochofication Evolution, the biggest FAIRY TALE EVER! hahahaha. Keep looking for the missing link you orphan of the apes.... The whole chain is missing you super charged ape. Even Darwin at the end, frustrated and destroyed, confessed to himself being wrong and to throw the whole thing away. So, goo man, c'mon at me with your big ideas any day. Keep on sputtering your frustrated wisdom that will never produce fruit. You are a fruitless vine. Where's the axe?
sandworm3 1 year ago
@sandworm3 Missing link? Homo erectus, Homo ergasta, Australopithecus garhi, Australopithecus africanus, Australopithecus afarensis, Australopithecus anamensis etc, etc. All of these are fossils found that are our ancestors and "missing links".
You really talking out of your a@# aren't you? I take it, from the failure to address the question, that you indeed have never left your state let alone your country.
Kochofication 1 year ago
@Kochofication The problem is not in your head, but in your heart. Willful self-determination, repress, hold back and smother the truth. Man's wicked self deception. When you decide to go your own way you decieve yourself. When you resist truth, you will believe a lie, nature denies and despises a vacuum. Selfish indiffernce. No thankfulness or glory to God from you. When you fail to give God glory, your heart will be darkened.Professing to be wise, you are a fool.Too intelligent to believe.
sandworm3 1 year ago
at Kocho-still wondering how atheism is founded on arrogance? read your posts. You must be a special fella.
sandworm3 1 year ago
@sandworm3 And you've failed to address any of the topics we've discussed. You've been proven wrong. Atheism isn't founded on arrogance and you certainly have displayed ignorance.
Kochofication 1 year ago
@Kochofication You walk in spiritual darkness, you cannot understand or hear. The true ignorance rests upon you, denying the one who created you. You pump out vast generalities with no sitings of your information... is this a forum with limited characters to try and banter with your foolishness and anti american rants?
sandworm3 1 year ago
@sandworm3 Siting? Try the United Nations Human development index. Funnily enough you've actually gone up in recent years. Could it be due to your "Godless, Socialist" new president? Obama reversed Bush's backward and stupid ban on stem cell funding, introduced universal healthcare (Something that everyone else already had) and you climbed a few spots on the index (though it is a little misleading with your gross disparity of income as GDP is a factor).
Kochofication 1 year ago
@sandworm3 And if you bothered to read what I wrote my two most damning replies were actually quotes from Sam Harris. A far more educated and thoughtful person than you or I. He's American. His "rants" aren't anti American. They're just facts. But facts don't mean much to you do they? I suppose you're a person who believes in creation despite the mass of varying, independent evidence that supports evolution.
Kochofication 1 year ago
@Kochofication Don't know Sam Harris. Educated and thoughtful is relative... depends on what you've fed your mind. Your "facts" are just generalities against Americans and a great nation with a great history. Evolution is not supported... greatest fairy tale for adults EVER! A frog turns into a prince... whose ignorant?
sandworm3 1 year ago
@sandworm3 Evolution is supported. It is observed, supported through fossil evidence in the strata and supported by genetics. No real scientist doubts it. The evidence for it is overwhelming. Research it!
What you call generalities are statistics. Are there exceptions? Of course there are. But they still paint a poor picture of your great nation. Especially the statistic that gives you the proportion of Americans that doubt evolution. No other educated western democracy has numbers like that