"And for the support of this Declaration, with a firm reliance on the protection of divine Providence, we mutually pledge to each other our Lives, our Fortunes and our sacred Honor."
- concluding sentence of the Declaration of Independence, 1776
Divine Providence mentioned in official government papers! Where is "sep. of church of state" in official government papers? OOPS.
"I firmly believe this and I also believe that without His concurring aid, we shall succeed in this political building no better than the builders of Babel."
Ben Franklin,after living 81 yrs. and learning from life.
Franklin:"And have we forgotten that powerful Friend? Or do we imagine that we no longer need His assistance? I have lived, sir, a long time and the longer I live the more convincing proofs I see of this truth: that God governs in the affairs of men. And if a sparrow cannot fall to the ground without his notice, is it probable that an empire can rise without His aid? We have been assured, sir, in the sacred writings that 'except the Lord build the house, they labor in vain that build it.'
Ben Franklin:"He was raised in a Puritan family and later adopted then abandoned deism. Though not an orthodox Christian, it was 81-year-old Franklin's emotional call to humble prayer on June 28, 1787, that was the turning point for a hopelessly stalled Convention. James Madison recorded the event in his collection of notes and debates from the Federal Convention. Franklin's appeal contained no less than four direct references to Scripture.
bajabryan: One can also refer to the Constitution and realize that the words "sep. of church and state" never appear. That didn't stop a bunch of liberal judges from writing it in!
Beginning APRIL 25, 1789, every session of the U.S. Senate has opened with prayer.
This was a continuation of the Continental Congress' practice during the Revolution, as Franklin remarked in 1787:"In the beginning of the Contest with Great Britain, when we were sensible of danger, we had daily prayer in this room for Divine protection."
handbook of biblical evidences! read it...learn from it! funny how every prophecy written has been fulfilled by Christ only! hundreds of years before birth....has anyone else done that? wake up learn..God bless
funny how de Tocqueville forgot to mention deists and freemasons.Whatever happened to them?Since he wrote his book in 1835 maybe they were all dead or converted.
The Founding Fathers did not adopt the moral and legal principles of the Scriptures as a whole, but rather selectively drew upon principles that fit their vision.
Thus, Scriptural principles that were not consistent with their worldly philosophies (economics, Enlightenment individualism, etc.) -- e.g., the social and economic justice of the Jubilee -- were discarded.
Alexis de Tocqueville:"Christianity has therefore retained a strong hold on the public mind in America...In the United States...Christianity itself is a fact so irresistibly established, that no one undertakes either to attack or to defend it."
Alexis de Tocqueville:"Upon my arrival in the United States the religious aspect of the country was the first thing that struck my attention...In France I had almost always seen the spirit of religion and the spirit of freedom marching in opposite directions. But in America I found they were intimately united."
Alexis de Tocqueville:"The Americans combine the notions of Christianity and of liberty so intimately in their minds, that it is impossible to make them conceive the one without the other...They brought with them into the New World a form of Christianity which I cannot better describe than by styling it a democratic and republican religion."
"The New England Primer":includes "Now I Lay Me Down to Sleep," "The Lord's Prayer," "The Ten Commandments," a rhyming alphabet, a Bible alphabet, two catechisms, Bible questions, a dialogue between Christ, the youth and the devil, and the advice John Rogers gave his nine children before he was martyred for Christ. The text offers instruction in right living with simple sentences like: "Fear God. Tell no lies. Speak the truth."
"The New England Primer":First introduced in Boston in 1690.Early Americans learned to read using this book and the Bible.This work helped produce a high level of literate,self-governed citizens who valued liberty and righteousness.
"I have sometimes thought there could be no stronger testimony in favor of Religion or against temporal Enjoyments even the most rational and manly than for men who occupy the most honorable and gainful departments and are rising in reputation and wealth, publicly to declare their unsatisfactoriness by becoming fervent Advocates in the cause of Christ,..."
proclaim a National Day of Fasting and Prayer, in which he stated:"When a Christian people feel themselves to be overtaken by a great public calamity, it becomes them to humble themselves under the
dispensation of Divine Providence, to recognize His righteous
government over the children of men...and to supplicate His merciful protection for the future."
Henry Adams,American historian:"The Pilgrims of Plymouth, the Puritans of Boston, the Quakers of Pennsylvania,all avowed a moral purpose, and began by making institutions that consciously reflected a moral idea."
John Quincy Adams continued:"So great is my veneration for the Bible, and so strong my belief,that when duly read and meditated on, it is of all books in the world, that which contributes most to make men good, wise, and
happy-that the earlier my children begin to read it...the more lively and confident will be my hopes that they will prove useful citizens of their country."
Patrick Henry:"It cannot be emphasized too strongly or too often that this great nation was founded, not by religionists, but by Christians; not on religion, but on the gospel of Jesus Christ! For this very reason peoples of faiths have been afforded asylum, and freedom of worship here."
Patrick Henry:"There is a just God who presides over the destines of nations...who
will raise up friends to fight our battle for us.The battle, sir, is not to the strong alone; it is to the vigilant,the active, the brave...Is life so dear, or peace so sweet, as to be purchased at the price of chains and slavery? Forbid it, Almighty God! I know not what course others may take; but as for me, give me liberty or give me
The real object of the First Amendment was not to countenance, much less to advance Mohammedanism, or Judaism, or infidelity, by prostrating Christianity, but to exclude all rivalry among Christian sects." --Justice Joseph Story
Rufus King,born MARCH 24,1755,was one of the youngest signers of the U.S. Constitution, only 32 years old,"I hold that all laws or compacts imposing any such condition as
slavery upon any human being are absolutely void because they are contrary to the law of nature, which is the law of God."
"Religion and virtue are the only foundations, not of republicanism and of all free government, but of social felicity under all government and in all the combinations of human society." —John Adams
Madison then proclaimed a National Day of Public Humiliation, Fasting&Prayer to Almighty God on November 16, 1814.Two weeks after the War ended, Madison proclaimed a National Day of Thanksgiving & Devout Acknowledgment to Almighty God, March 4, 1815
On August 25, 1814, as the British burned the White House,Capitol and public buildings, dark clouds began to roll in. A tornado sent
debris flying, blew off roofs and knocked chimneys over on top of British troops. Two cannons were lifted off the ground and dropped
yards away.A British historian wrote:"More British soldiers were killed by this stroke of nature than from all the firearms the American troops had mustered."British forces fled in confusion and rains extinguished the fires.
And NO,he was not referring to a deist god.A deist god does not intervene in human affairs.A deist god would create the world then leave man to his own devices.That is not the God Washington is speaking of.
After his Inauguration, President George Washington attended the"divine service" conducted by U.S. Senate Chaplain Samuel Provoost in New York City's St. Paul's Chapel.
In his Inaugural Address,April 30,1789Washington said: "No people can be bound to acknowledge and adore the Invisible Hand
which conducts the affairs of men more than the people of the United States.Every step by which they have advanced to the character of an independent nation seems to have been distinguished by some token of Providential agency."
George Washington:After the Declaration of Independence was read to his troops, July 9,
1776, General Washington ordered chaplains placed in each regiment,stating: "The General hopes and trusts, that every officer and man, will endeavor so to live, and act, as becomes a Christian Soldier,defending the dearest Rights and Liberties of his country."
William Prescott:"We consider that we are all embarked in (the same boat) and must
sink or swim together. Let us all be of one heart, and stand fast in the liberty wherewith Christ has made us free. And may He, of His infinite mercy, grant us deliverance of all our troubles."
William Prescott, born FEBRUARY 20, 1726,A Revolutionary War Colonel,he built the fortifications at Breed's Hill and commanded the militia at the Battle of Bunker Hill in 1775.He fought in the Battle of Long Island in 1776 and the Battle of Saratoga in 1777
Judge Joseph Story:On Christianity and Laws in America:"I verily believe Christianity necessary to the support of civil society. One of the beautiful boasts of
our municipal jurisprudence is that Christianity is a part of the Common Law. . . There never has been a period in which the Common Law did not recognize Christianity as lying its foundations."
[Commentaries on the Constitution of the United States; and 1829 speech at Harvard]
William Henry Harrison,son of Benjamin Harrison signer of the Dec. of Ind.,:"I deem the present occasion sufficiently important and solemn to justify me in expressing to my fellow citizens a profound reverence for the Christian religion, and a thorough conviction that sound morals, religious liberty, and a just sense of religious responsibility are essentially connected with all true and lasting happiness."
Why did the Constitutional framers set aside Sunday—the Fourth Commandment of the Decalogue—as a day of rest for the President (Art. 1, sec. 7) if it was their desire to secularize the nation? The French revolutionaries reconstructed the seven-day biblical week and turned it into a ten-day metric week in hopes of ridding the nation of every vestige of Christianity. Nothing like this was done in America.
The Treaty concluded: "Done at the city of Guadalupe Hidalgo, the 2nd day of February, in the year of the Lord one thousand eight hundred and forty-eight."
FEBRUARY 2, 1848, the U.S. Congress ratified the peace treaty which ended the Mexican War.The treaty stated: "In the Name of Almighty God-the United States and the United Mexican States animated by a sincere desire to put an end to the calamities of the war....have, under the protection of Almighty God, the Author of Peace, arranged, agreed upon, and signed the following Treaty of Peace."
"The New England Primer, 1777 edition". If America was not a Christian nation why was this the book used in public schools to teach children to read and the alphabet?
Are you insane? My "rights" which refers to my civil rights, comes from the laws of the nation. I'm rational, and don't believe in any mythological Gods. Why aren't you able to debate American civil rights based on American principals instead of whatever fantasy and mythology you've chosen to adopt? Jesus christ...
Those are my choices? Actually, they're not, because I'm an AMERICAN! Clearly, the state can take away rights, as the Bush administration has well proven. But in America, we stand up and protest, and demand justice. The point of this debate is that in America religion should not be allowed to legislate their version of morality based on mythology.
cjarvis: marriage by definition is one man and one woman. Why is it so important to you to change the definition of marriage? You have the same right I do if you want to get married. Changing the definition creates a special right that doesn't exist for others.
It is important to me and millions of other LGBT Americans because we want the legal rights and tax breaks, insurance accessibility, etc. that you have. I've been in a monogomous relationship for 12 years now, we own a home, etc. but we don't get the benefits that straights get and take for granted by marrying, divorcing, etc. Fair is fair and if you're an American you should support that, regardless of your religious beliefs.
There's no such thing as a normal human being. I am a natural human being, like everyone else. You need to realize the universe does not begin and end in your own mind and your own beliefs. Try this, admit the possiblity of there being no God. Since there's no evidence and I assume you're sane, you'd have to agree.
cjarvis: I used to believe just that. I was an atheist for over 25yrs. That's why my beliefs are so strong. I know the difference between the two and I choose God over ignorance. If there is no "normal" then nothing is adnormal. Are you advocating child molesting, bestiality, rape and any other behavior that is considered by most people to be adnormal?
That's idiotic. Normal is a word used by conservatives and the religious to manipulate morality. I'm done with this since your mind is closed. Interesting how you say athiests are ignorant when you've chosen to believe in a myth, an idea with no physical reality, and instead of being humble about it (knowing you can't prove any of it) you hurl it at others as if there's really any weight to what you're saying.
Who are these others you speak of who wouldn't have rights if gays were allowed to marry? And why is it that Americans who believe in an imaginary God and claim to be patriotic can't understand that in America, you're supposed to support legislation based on equality, not religion?
cjarvis: I don't support anything that God says is a sin. That also includes fornication,adultry,drunkeness,gossip and many other things that heterosexuals do.Being equal does not make something right.
Again, that is nothing more than an opinion in your own head. If you are a real American you can have all the mythology in your head you want, but you have no right, if you believe in the principals of this country, to legislate against others based on a book you read.
cjarvis: I have ever right to support the beliefs of my Christian beliefs. I have ever right to vote for people who believe the same as I do. Just as you have the right to vote for your choice. BTW, the principals that built this country were Judeo-Christian.
Yes, you have the right. But it's clear you want to live in a religious state and have no investment in the founding principals of America, which are equality and freedom, NOT Judeo-Christian beliefs. Try reading the constitution. If you were a true American you'd vote for all to have equality, whether it's at odds with your religious beliefs or not, since they should be separate.
Wow, that one is brilliant. There used to be no such thing as inter-racial marriage too. Do you understand that as a (hopefully) evolving species, there are times when we will see that this or that current law or "tradition" needs to be changed to adapt to new knowledge or to overturn traditional prejudice?
cjarvis: one man and one woman. Race has nothing to do with it. Sure inter racial marriage used to be illegal but that has nothing to do with the definition of marriage. It is a huge mistake to equate race with behavior.
Really? Because the definition of marriage was changed by the courts to allow inter-racial marriage. If it has nothing to do with the "definition of marriage" then why was it illegal? BTW the current "definition of marriage" is simply what heterosexuals have decided upon. It's not written in stone anywhere.
The separation of church and state is a legal/political principle derived from the First Amendment, "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof . . ." The phrase "separation of church and state" is generally traced to an 1802 letter by Jefferson to the Danbury Baptists. It has been quoted in several opinions by the US Supreme Court.
cjarvis: Jefferson's letter is always the source for sep.ofchurch&state. It was written over 10yrs. after the 1st amend. Why should a private letter be used to create law? This is why the Emerson case in 1947 was bad law. It has nothing to do with the Constitution. There are many other letters that mention God that could be used to justify the opposite conslusion.
Hyper aggressive Christians such as yourself should ask themselves what they're fighting for. Their own religious freedom (which they have) or the control of Americans they disagree with morally? Despite the fact that God is a myth with no evidence behind it. Isn't that enough to make you keep it to yourself? And "normal" has changed hundreds of times throughout history. It means nothing. We're talking about EQUAL AMERICAN CIVIL RIGHTS. Put some passion behind that, why don't you?
The 1848 Treaty with Mexico begins with "In the name of Almighty God." The treaty also states that both countries are "under the protection of Almighty God, the author of peace"
I'm curious why you feel so strongly about this. If you're not working to change laws in order to restrict those you feel are "immoral" then why are you so uptight about this. No one is trying to censor religion, except in government buildings. Do Christians really have to dominate in every setting of a FREE COUNTRY?
I'd still love to know why you're so uptight about this. No gay marriage would ever have any effect on you, your straight marriage, or any other straight marriage. Religion is a right, as long as it's not intertwined with government, risking a theocracy. What is so hard to understand about all this?????
cjarvis: the only thing I am uptight about is judges who subvert the constitution by ignoring it and creating new rights out of thin air.Religious people have a right to participate in politics.Their rights to worship and practice their religion does not stop at the church door.Why is it that practices that went on for almost 200yrs. are today "unconstitutional"?
I would hope that you would understand why there's a shift. As the world is exposed to more, and more information becomes available, and more prejudices are exposed, and the corruption of religion is exposed, people will stand up and demand stricter lines. It hasn't been very long in America that people can speak out against religion and not be vilified.
In 1822, the United States, along with Great Britain and Ireland, ratified a "Convention for Indemnity Under Award of Emperor of Russia as to the True Construction of the First Article of the Treaty of December 24, 1814." It begins with the same words found in the Preamble to the 1783 treaty: "In the name of the Most Holy and Indivisible Trinity." Only Christianity teaches a Trinitarian view of God.
If treaties are going to be used to establish the religious foundation of America, then it's essential that we look at more than one treaty. In 1783, at the close of the war with Great Britain, a peace treaty was ratified that began with these words: "In the name of the Most Holy and Undivided Trinity. It having pleased the Divine Providence to dispose the hearts of the most serene and most potent Prince George the Third, by the Grace of God King of Great Britain."
It is important to note that the 1805 treaty with Tripoli, drafted during Jefferson's administration, differs from the 1797 Treaty in that the phrase "as the Government of the United States of America is not in any sense founded on the Christian Religion" is conspicuously absent. Article 14 of the new treaty corresponds to Article 11 of the first treaty.
These are the qualifying statements in the treaty that explain why the phrase "founded on the Christian religion" was used.
The Dey of Tripoli had to be convinced that America, as a Christian nation based on the reading of the state constitutions and official documents, would not impose its religion on the Muslim people.
In drafting the treaty, the United States was assuring the Dey (ruler) of Tripoli that in its struggle with the pirates "it has in itself no character of enmity against the laws, religion or tranquility of Musselmen," that "the said states never have entered into any war or act of hostility against any Mehomitan [Muslim] nation" due to religious considerations.
Joseph Wheelan's historical assessment of the time is on target. "Except for its Native American population and a small percentage of Jews, the United States was solidly Christian, while the North African regencies were just as solidly Muslim—openly hostile toward Christians."
The Barbary pirates habitually preyed on ships from "Christian nations," enslaving "Christian" seamen. Since this was a treaty between the United States and an Islamic government, was America not one of these Christian nations? "Barbary was Christendom's Gulag Archipelago."
The statement in the Treaty of Tripoli was nothing more than a pronouncement "that 'the Christian religion' as a formal institution was not a part of the American government in the same way that the religious structures of Islam are a part of Islamic governments." The statement was to assure a Muslim government that America would not depose that government and impose Christianity by force.
Deists and Unitarians believed in a personal and transcendent God and appealed to Him frequently in political discourse. If a candidate used deistic and Unitarian language in a political speech today, the ACLU would be the first to proclaim that such an attribution was a clear violation of the "constitutional doctrine" of the "separation of church and state."
2)Congress also recommended that Americans petition God "to prosper the means of religion for the promotion and enlargement of that kingdom which consists in righteousness, peace and joy in the Holy Ghost."
1)Congress set aside December 18, 1777 as a day of thanksgiving so the American people "may express the grateful feelings of their hearts and consecrate themselves to the service of their divine benefactor" and on which they might "join the penitent confession of their manifold sins . . . that it may please God, through the merits of Jesus Christ, mercifully to forgive and blot them out of remembrance."
On March 16, 1776, "by order of Congress" a "day of Humiliation, Fasting and Prayer" where people of the nation were called on to "acknowledge the over ruling providence of God" and bewail their "manifold sins and transgressions, and, by a sincere repentance and amendment of life, appease his righteous displeasure, and, through the merits and mediation of Jesus Christ, obtain his pardon and forgiveness."
cjarvis: homosexualiy is a behavior. It is not who you are or what you are. It is something you do. No one should define themselves by their sexual behavior.BTW, behavior has always had some constraints put on it by law.Behavior is not a "right".
Whether homosexuality is a "behavior" (and it's not) should be decided by knowledge, not opinions, such as yours. And yes, behavior has constraints, which means heterosexuals can't practice sex in public, as with homosexuals. Ironically, any debate about legalizing gay marriage has nothing to do with any of that.
cjarvis: if the founding fathers could celebrate CHRISTmas and Easter on public property why can't we today do the same thing. I guess they did'nt have the aclu to tell them it was unconstitutional.
cjarvis: in case you haven't noticed, atheists and liberals are forcing their beliefs on Christians all over this country.We are expected to believe killing babies is a "right". We are expected to believe that every deviant sexual behavior "normal".All kinds of garbage is allowed because of 1st amend. "right" but Christians are expected not to pray if it offends just one person.
Atheists and liberals aren't doing any such thing. We are simply working to assure that Christians stop using the law to re-design a free America. No abortion kills any of your babies, so how is it any of your business? And what gives you the right to label something you don't agree with as "deviant"? (straight people practice all sorts of sex, from missionary to fetish to kink, just to let you in on the truth)
cjarvis: you need a dictionary. If abortion doesn't kill babies what does it kill?So if it's not anyones business they should stay out of it. Tell that to holocaust survivors.Look up deviant. Anything that deviates from the norm. Homosexual sex is not in the norm.
The "norm" as you so proudly proclaim it, is nothing more than the traditional IDEA of what's normal. It didn't used to be "normal" for blacks and whites to marry, for women to vote, etc. Who are you to define normal? Strange how you say atheists & liberals are trying to define everything, and that's all you've been doing.
And you need glasses. I said someone's abortion doesn't kill "YOUR babies". The holocaust, or any other murder of a human outside their mother's body, does not apply. Abortion rights have several principals, not the least of which is women's right to birth control.
I'm sick of Christians saying the separation of church and state is about people being offended. The reason for separation is so that belief systems (and it's nothing more than a belief) and religious organizations are not allowed access to influence government. Do you know the historical facts regarding why this country was founded by people who rebelled and fled Europe?
cjarvis: One of the reasons people came to this country was because of religious persecution from government. That is what the 1st amend. protects against. It does not prevent religious people from participating in government.
Don't you think that religious persecution was due to religion and government being intertwined? Why is this danger, with all it's historical evidence, lost on Christians? Why is personal religion not enough, why inject it into government in order to institute laws of discrimination, restriction and prejudice? Why do Christians have an obsessive need to control and influence everything and everyone around them?
cjarvis: I am not trying to change public policy. I am trying to show correct history. I have never claimed that the government was founded on Christian values. It is the nation that was created with Judeo-Christian values. There is a difference between gov. and nation.
Government and citizenry are two vastly different things in a free society. Living in a free country means that Christians will occasionally have to deal with things they don't deem "moral". Your religion is not supposed to be reflected in society, or it's laws, or it's social policy. Religion is historically very dangerous, imperialistic and violent. That's why you separate it from the government and laws of the country.
Many of your comments posted here are not your own and do not indicate they are not. The point of all this is that if you want to be a christian, be a christian, just don't try to change American public policy to reflect your personal belief system.
Someone please explain why christians aren't content with keeping their mythology in their own heads and to themselves. Those who understand God is a myth are not trying to keep those who believe from doing so. We just don't want those who believe restricting the rest of us through their attempts to remake America in the image of their God.
Christians are like homophobes. Most homophobes hide homosexual impulses of their own (tests have proven it) and most christians are power hungry control freaks who behave in no way as Jesus did. It's clear that in 2008, as more people are realizing God is a myth, that christians, in their panic, are trying to seal their mythology into the laws of the United States of America.
Timothy Dwight wrote in 1798: "Religion and liberty are the meat and drink of the body politic. Withdraw one of them and it dies...Without religion we may possibly retain the freedom of savages, but not the freedom of New England...If our religion were gone, our state of society would perish with it and nothing would be left worth defending."
Originally a Puritan college, Yale students became enticed by France's deistic "cult of reason," which birthed the bloody French Revolution. Timothy Dwight answered students' questions on faith and by his death, JANUARY 11, 1817, Yale had grown from 110 to 313 students, with a third professing Christianity and 30 entering ministry.
Until the mid 20th centuary the Bible was used in schools to teach the alphabet and reading. Did the American people not know they were acting unconstitutional?
New York University Professor Emeritus Patricia Bonomi, in her article "The Middle Colonies as the Birthplace of American Religious Pluralism" wrote: "The colonists were about 98 percent Protestant."
Betsy Ross married to John Ross, son of an Episcopal rector at Christ Church, attended Christ's Church with Jefferson, Hamilton and Franklin. The Ross' pew number 12 was near George Washington's.
Those who attribute the Treaty of Tripoli quote to George Washington make two mistakes. The first is that no statement in it can be attributed to Washington (the treaty did not arrive in America until months after he left office); Washington never saw the treaty; it was not his work; no statement in it can be ascribed to him. The SECOND mistake is to divorce a single clause of the treaty from the remainder which provides its context.
Article XI simply distinguished America from those historical strains of European Christianity which held an inherent hatred of Muslims; it simply assured the Muslims that the United States was not a Christian nation like those of previous centuries (with whose practices the Muslims were very familiar) and thus would not undertake a religious holy war against them.
Though the Founders themselves openly described America as a Christian nation, they did include a constitutional prohibition against a federal establishment; religion was a matter left solely to the individual States. Therefore, if the article is read as a declaration that the federal government of the United States was not in any sense founded on the Christian religion, such a statement is not a repudiation of the fact that America was considered a Christian nation.
This article may be read in two manners. It may, as its critics do, be concluded after the clause "Christian religion"; or it may be read in its entirety and concluded when the punctuation so indicates. But even if shortened and cut abruptly ("the government of the United States is not in any sense founded on the Christian religion"), this is not an untrue statement since it is referring to the federal government.
The 1797 treaty with Tripoli was one of the many treaties in which each country officially recognized the religion of the other in an attempt to prevent further escalation of a "Holy War" between Christians and Muslims.
Washington's own contemporaries did not question his Christianity but were thoroughly convinced of his devout faith,a fact made evident in the first-ever compilation of the The Writings of George Washington, published in the 1830s.
Your last thought bugged me to no end. Creating a belief system requires gathering facts from diverse sources. I am a weak atheist/deist/pantheist who believes that is nation is a Christian entity. I base my argument on the demographics of population then and now, the fallout from the Revolutionary War and the facts cited BY BOTH SIDES. From my explorations, sheer number alone trumps the non-Christian nation argument.
How many members of the masses were illiterate? How technologically lax were they in those times? News traveled slowly from what I understand. Remember also that the founding father were elitist, so it's likely they didn't travel in religious circles.
They were many CHRISTIANS in this nation, AND THEY CONSTITUTED THE MAJORITY. Why are they lost in this debate?
Also, look at the mission statement of New England Colony from 1643, which states that the purpose of the colony was to advance the kingdom of the LORD. If you look, you will find other sources out there.
America, land of the free and home of the brave, worships GOD and Christ.
Well There was also a right to freedom of speech called the First Amendment if people can share there personal beilefs so can Christians. part one. writing more
I love that video. Well put. I wish people would bring these issues up on the media. With all the Christian networks on television, you hear the same rhetoric. People believe it and never look farther than that.
Great points...I have a couple videos also covering this as well. I know some fundies that say that it doesn't mater if were were a Christian Nation then...all that maters is we are one NOW. Crazy huh?
Excellent! You should make this a response to my redwine vid or my founding fathers vid. Lets get them altogether so that we can direct people to a lot of videos at once!
You're right of course...but it doesn't matter. US lawmakers have been ignoring the US Constitution for many years. For example, Bush's invasion of Iraq was / is clearly illegal under Article 51 of
"And for the support of this Declaration, with a firm reliance on the protection of divine Providence, we mutually pledge to each other our Lives, our Fortunes and our sacred Honor."
- concluding sentence of the Declaration of Independence, 1776
Divine Providence mentioned in official government papers! Where is "sep. of church of state" in official government papers? OOPS.
blessedvic 3 years ago
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President John Quincy Adams Executive Order, July 11,1826: "A coincidence...so wonderful gives confidence...that the patriotic
efforts of these...men were Heaven directed, and furnishes a
new...hope that the prosperity of these States is under the special
protection of a kind Providence."
blessedvic 3 years ago
"I firmly believe this and I also believe that without His concurring aid, we shall succeed in this political building no better than the builders of Babel."
Ben Franklin,after living 81 yrs. and learning from life.
blessedvic 3 years ago
Franklin:"And have we forgotten that powerful Friend? Or do we imagine that we no longer need His assistance? I have lived, sir, a long time and the longer I live the more convincing proofs I see of this truth: that God governs in the affairs of men. And if a sparrow cannot fall to the ground without his notice, is it probable that an empire can rise without His aid? We have been assured, sir, in the sacred writings that 'except the Lord build the house, they labor in vain that build it.'
blessedvic 3 years ago
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Ben Franklin:"He was raised in a Puritan family and later adopted then abandoned deism. Though not an orthodox Christian, it was 81-year-old Franklin's emotional call to humble prayer on June 28, 1787, that was the turning point for a hopelessly stalled Convention. James Madison recorded the event in his collection of notes and debates from the Federal Convention. Franklin's appeal contained no less than four direct references to Scripture.
blessedvic 3 years ago
How are you going to "elevate man" when you can't even deal properly with feedback?
OmarThePug 3 years ago
I haven't blocked anyone who hasnt threatened me, I don't remove comments, so what is your point?
thequantumflux 3 years ago
FACT: One can simply refer to the U.S. Constitution and realize that the words "God" and "Christian" never appear!
Our nation was founded as a secular government, based on the authority of "We, the People," not a god, king, or dictator.
BajaBryan 3 years ago
bajabryan: One can also refer to the Constitution and realize that the words "sep. of church and state" never appear. That didn't stop a bunch of liberal judges from writing it in!
blessedvic 3 years ago
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"It is the RIGHT as well as the DUTY of ALL men in society,publicly and at stated seasons, to worship the Supreme Being, the
great Creator and Preserver of the universe. And no subject shall be hurt, molested, or restrained in his person, liberty, or estate,
for worshipping God..."
Massachusetts Bill of Rights, Part the First, 1780.
Is this Constitutional?
blessedvic 3 years ago
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History of the National Day of Prayer
1775 The First Continental Congress called for a National Day of Prayer.
1863 Abraham Lincoln called for such a day.
1952 Congress established NDP as an annual event by a joint resolution, signed into law by President Truman.
1988 The law was amended and signed by President Reagan, to be the first Thursday in May.
Do deists pray?
blessedvic 3 years ago
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Beginning APRIL 25, 1789, every session of the U.S. Senate has opened with prayer.
This was a continuation of the Continental Congress' practice during the Revolution, as Franklin remarked in 1787:"In the beginning of the Contest with Great Britain, when we were sensible of danger, we had daily prayer in this room for Divine protection."
Do deists pray to a personal God?
blessedvic 3 years ago
handbook of biblical evidences! read it...learn from it! funny how every prophecy written has been fulfilled by Christ only! hundreds of years before birth....has anyone else done that? wake up learn..God bless
willisboys2007 3 years ago
funny how de Tocqueville forgot to mention deists and freemasons.Whatever happened to them?Since he wrote his book in 1835 maybe they were all dead or converted.
blessedvic 3 years ago
Alexis de Tocqueville sure thought America was a Christian nation. Imagine that!
blessedvic 3 years ago
The Founding Fathers did not adopt the moral and legal principles of the Scriptures as a whole, but rather selectively drew upon principles that fit their vision.
Thus, Scriptural principles that were not consistent with their worldly philosophies (economics, Enlightenment individualism, etc.) -- e.g., the social and economic justice of the Jubilee -- were discarded.
MedicineWarrior 3 years ago
Alexis de Tocqueville:"Christianity has therefore retained a strong hold on the public mind in America...In the United States...Christianity itself is a fact so irresistibly established, that no one undertakes either to attack or to defend it."
blessedvic 3 years ago
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Alexis de Tocqueville:"Upon my arrival in the United States the religious aspect of the country was the first thing that struck my attention...In France I had almost always seen the spirit of religion and the spirit of freedom marching in opposite directions. But in America I found they were intimately united."
blessedvic 3 years ago
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Alexis de Tocqueville:"The Americans combine the notions of Christianity and of liberty so intimately in their minds, that it is impossible to make them conceive the one without the other...They brought with them into the New World a form of Christianity which I cannot better describe than by styling it a democratic and republican religion."
blessedvic 3 years ago
so people who weren't Christian used "The New England Primer" to teach their kids. Sure they did. :)
blessedvic 3 years ago
"The New England Primer":includes "Now I Lay Me Down to Sleep," "The Lord's Prayer," "The Ten Commandments," a rhyming alphabet, a Bible alphabet, two catechisms, Bible questions, a dialogue between Christ, the youth and the devil, and the advice John Rogers gave his nine children before he was martyred for Christ. The text offers instruction in right living with simple sentences like: "Fear God. Tell no lies. Speak the truth."
blessedvic 3 years ago
"The New England Primer":First introduced in Boston in 1690.Early Americans learned to read using this book and the Bible.This work helped produce a high level of literate,self-governed citizens who valued liberty and righteousness.
blessedvic 3 years ago
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Madison letter to Bradford,1773:
"I have sometimes thought there could be no stronger testimony in favor of Religion or against temporal Enjoyments even the most rational and manly than for men who occupy the most honorable and gainful departments and are rising in reputation and wealth, publicly to declare their unsatisfactoriness by becoming fervent Advocates in the cause of Christ,..."
blessedvic 3 years ago
Jedediah Morse stated in Charleston, Massachusetts, April 25, 1799:
"Whenever the pillars of Christianity shall be overthrown, our present republican forms of government,and all the blessings which
flow from them,must fall with them."
The father of Samuel Morse thought this was a Christian nation!
blessedvic 3 years ago
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The first African American to have his image on a U.S. coin and postage stamp, Booker T. Washington wrote in Up From Slavery, 1907:
"If no other consideration had convinced me of the value of the Christian life, the Christlike work which the Church of all
denominations in America has done during the last 35 years for the elevation of the black man would have made me a Christian."
Booker T. Washington thought he lived in a Christian nation!
blessedvic 3 years ago
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President John Tyler's first act was to
proclaim a National Day of Fasting and Prayer, in which he stated:"When a Christian people feel themselves to be overtaken by a great public calamity, it becomes them to humble themselves under the
dispensation of Divine Providence, to recognize His righteous
government over the children of men...and to supplicate His merciful protection for the future."
blessedvic 3 years ago
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Henry Adams,American historian:"The Pilgrims of Plymouth, the Puritans of Boston, the Quakers of Pennsylvania,all avowed a moral purpose, and began by making institutions that consciously reflected a moral idea."
blessedvic 3 years ago
John Quincy Adams continued:"So great is my veneration for the Bible, and so strong my belief,that when duly read and meditated on, it is of all books in the world, that which contributes most to make men good, wise, and
happy-that the earlier my children begin to read it...the more lively and confident will be my hopes that they will prove useful citizens of their country."
blessedvic 3 years ago
In September 1811, John Quincy Adams wrote from St. Petersburg to his son, Charles:
"My dear Son...You mentioned that you read to your aunt a chapter in the Bible...every evening. This information gave me real pleasure..."
blessedvic 3 years ago
Patrick Henry:"It cannot be emphasized too strongly or too often that this great nation was founded, not by religionists, but by Christians; not on religion, but on the gospel of Jesus Christ! For this very reason peoples of faiths have been afforded asylum, and freedom of worship here."
blessedvic 3 years ago
This is one of David Barton's notorious "unconfirmed" quotations, which is a euphemism for phony.
JonWRowe 3 years ago
Patrick Henry:"There is a just God who presides over the destines of nations...who
will raise up friends to fight our battle for us.The battle, sir, is not to the strong alone; it is to the vigilant,the active, the brave...Is life so dear, or peace so sweet, as to be purchased at the price of chains and slavery? Forbid it, Almighty God! I know not what course others may take; but as for me, give me liberty or give me
death."
blessedvic 3 years ago
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The real object of the First Amendment was not to countenance, much less to advance Mohammedanism, or Judaism, or infidelity, by prostrating Christianity, but to exclude all rivalry among Christian sects." --Justice Joseph Story
blessedvic 3 years ago
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Rufus King,born MARCH 24,1755,was one of the youngest signers of the U.S. Constitution, only 32 years old,"I hold that all laws or compacts imposing any such condition as
slavery upon any human being are absolutely void because they are contrary to the law of nature, which is the law of God."
blessedvic 3 years ago
"Religion and virtue are the only foundations, not of republicanism and of all free government, but of social felicity under all government and in all the combinations of human society." —John Adams
blessedvic 3 years ago
Do diests pray to their god and give thanks and fast to a god who doesn't get involved in their lives?
blessedvic 4 years ago
Madison then proclaimed a National Day of Public Humiliation, Fasting&Prayer to Almighty God on November 16, 1814.Two weeks after the War ended, Madison proclaimed a National Day of Thanksgiving & Devout Acknowledgment to Almighty God, March 4, 1815
blessedvic 4 years ago
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On August 25, 1814, as the British burned the White House,Capitol and public buildings, dark clouds began to roll in. A tornado sent
debris flying, blew off roofs and knocked chimneys over on top of British troops. Two cannons were lifted off the ground and dropped
yards away.A British historian wrote:"More British soldiers were killed by this stroke of nature than from all the firearms the American troops had mustered."British forces fled in confusion and rains extinguished the fires.
blessedvic 4 years ago
During the War of 1812,James Madison proclaimed two National Days of
Prayer.
blessedvic 4 years ago
In 1861, Abraham Lincoln wrote:
"Intelligence, patriotism, Christianity, and a firm reliance on Him
who has never yet forsaken this favored land, are still competent to
adjust in the best way all our present difficulty."
blessedvic 4 years ago
President John Quincy Adams stated in 1825:"'Except the Lord keep the city, the watchman waketh in vain.'"
In 1841, President William Harrison said:
"I deem the present occasion sufficiently important...in expressing to my fellow citizens a profound reverence for the Christian religion."
blessedvic 4 years ago
Each President has acknowledged faith upon assuming office, for example, President John
Adams in 1797 gave: "Veneration for the religion of a people who profess and call
themselves Christians...to consider a decent respect for Christianity among the best recommendations for the public service."
blessedvic 4 years ago
Classic Encyclopedia on George Washington:"a consistent member and vestryman of the Established (Episcopal) Church
blessedvic 4 years ago
And NO,he was not referring to a deist god.A deist god does not intervene in human affairs.A deist god would create the world then leave man to his own devices.That is not the God Washington is speaking of.
blessedvic 4 years ago
After his Inauguration, President George Washington attended the"divine service" conducted by U.S. Senate Chaplain Samuel Provoost in New York City's St. Paul's Chapel.
blessedvic 4 years ago
In his Inaugural Address,April 30,1789Washington said: "No people can be bound to acknowledge and adore the Invisible Hand
which conducts the affairs of men more than the people of the United States.Every step by which they have advanced to the character of an independent nation seems to have been distinguished by some token of Providential agency."
blessedvic 4 years ago
George Washington:After the Declaration of Independence was read to his troops, July 9,
1776, General Washington ordered chaplains placed in each regiment,stating: "The General hopes and trusts, that every officer and man, will endeavor so to live, and act, as becomes a Christian Soldier,defending the dearest Rights and Liberties of his country."
blessedvic 4 years ago
William Prescott:"We consider that we are all embarked in (the same boat) and must
sink or swim together. Let us all be of one heart, and stand fast in the liberty wherewith Christ has made us free. And may He, of His infinite mercy, grant us deliverance of all our troubles."
blessedvic 4 years ago
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William Prescott, born FEBRUARY 20, 1726,A Revolutionary War Colonel,he built the fortifications at Breed's Hill and commanded the militia at the Battle of Bunker Hill in 1775.He fought in the Battle of Long Island in 1776 and the Battle of Saratoga in 1777
blessedvic 4 years ago
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Judge Joseph Story:On Christianity and Laws in America:"I verily believe Christianity necessary to the support of civil society. One of the beautiful boasts of
our municipal jurisprudence is that Christianity is a part of the Common Law. . . There never has been a period in which the Common Law did not recognize Christianity as lying its foundations."
[Commentaries on the Constitution of the United States; and 1829 speech at Harvard]
blessedvic 4 years ago
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"Trusting in Him who can go with me and remain with you, and be
everywhere for good, let us confidently hope that all will yet be
well...Let us all pray that the God of our fathers may not forsake us now.."
President Abraham Lincoln.
Oh wait, was he a deist too?
blessedvic 4 years ago
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William Henry Harrison,son of Benjamin Harrison signer of the Dec. of Ind.,:"I deem the present occasion sufficiently important and solemn to justify me in expressing to my fellow citizens a profound reverence for the Christian religion, and a thorough conviction that sound morals, religious liberty, and a just sense of religious responsibility are essentially connected with all true and lasting happiness."
blessedvic 4 years ago
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I have lived, Sir, a
long time, and the longer I live, the more convincing proofs
I see of this truth-that God governs in the affairs of men.
And if a sparrow cannot fall to the Ground without his Notice,
is it probable that an Empire can rise without his Aid?""
-- Benjamin Franklin (To Colleagues at the Constitutional
Convention)
blessedvic 4 years ago
Why did the Constitutional framers set aside Sunday—the Fourth Commandment of the Decalogue—as a day of rest for the President (Art. 1, sec. 7) if it was their desire to secularize the nation? The French revolutionaries reconstructed the seven-day biblical week and turned it into a ten-day metric week in hopes of ridding the nation of every vestige of Christianity. Nothing like this was done in America.
blessedvic 4 years ago
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Why do atheists not want to discuss this treaty, along with many more, that inserts God in the treaty?
blessedvic 4 years ago
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The Treaty concluded: "Done at the city of Guadalupe Hidalgo, the 2nd day of February, in the year of the Lord one thousand eight hundred and forty-eight."
blessedvic 4 years ago
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FEBRUARY 2, 1848, the U.S. Congress ratified the peace treaty which ended the Mexican War.The treaty stated: "In the Name of Almighty God-the United States and the United Mexican States animated by a sincere desire to put an end to the calamities of the war....have, under the protection of Almighty God, the Author of Peace, arranged, agreed upon, and signed the following Treaty of Peace."
blessedvic 4 years ago
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"The New England Primer, 1777 edition". If America was not a Christian nation why was this the book used in public schools to teach children to read and the alphabet?
blessedvic 4 years ago
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"No people can be bound to acknowledge and adore the invisible
hand, which conducts the Affairs of men more than the People
of the United States. Every step, by which they have advanced
to the character of an independent nation, seems to have been
distinguished by some token of providential agency."
George Washington (First Inaugural Address, 30 April 1789)
In other words...God.
blessedvic 4 years ago
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"The God who gave us life, gave us liberty at the same time;
the hand of force may destroy, but cannot disjoin them."
-- Thomas Jefferson (Summary View of the Rights of British America,
August 1774)
blessedvic 4 years ago
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"Education should teach the precepts of religion and the duties of man toward God." - Gouverneur Morris.
blessedvic 4 years ago
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"Education should teach the precepts of religion and the duties of man toward God." - Gouverneur Morris.
blessedvic 4 years ago
"In such a performance you may lay the foundation of national
happiness only in religion, not by leaving it doubtful "whether
morals can exist without it," but by asserting that without
religion morals are the effects of causes as purely physical as
pleasant breezes and fruitful seasons."
-- Benjamin Rush (letter to John Adams, 20 August 1811)
blessedvic 4 years ago
cjarvis: Thomas Jefferson said rights come from your creator. If you don't believe in God where do your rights come from?
blessedvic 4 years ago
Are you insane? My "rights" which refers to my civil rights, comes from the laws of the nation. I'm rational, and don't believe in any mythological Gods. Why aren't you able to debate American civil rights based on American principals instead of whatever fantasy and mythology you've chosen to adopt? Jesus christ...
cjarvis 4 years ago
cjarvis: since your "rights" come from the state the state can take them away.Would you like Stalin or Mao or Pol Pot to be in charge of your rights?
blessedvic 4 years ago
dude you should let it go you are getting pwned left and right.
cjarvis has a much better grasp of reality than you, arent there some fire trucks you should be playing with in the sandbox?
OriginalHamster 4 years ago
Those are my choices? Actually, they're not, because I'm an AMERICAN! Clearly, the state can take away rights, as the Bush administration has well proven. But in America, we stand up and protest, and demand justice. The point of this debate is that in America religion should not be allowed to legislate their version of morality based on mythology.
cjarvis 4 years ago
cjarvis: you still haven't answered my question about where your rights come from?
blessedvic 4 years ago
Because I have no idea what that question means...
cjarvis 4 years ago
cjarvis: marriage by definition is one man and one woman. Why is it so important to you to change the definition of marriage? You have the same right I do if you want to get married. Changing the definition creates a special right that doesn't exist for others.
blessedvic 4 years ago
It is important to me and millions of other LGBT Americans because we want the legal rights and tax breaks, insurance accessibility, etc. that you have. I've been in a monogomous relationship for 12 years now, we own a home, etc. but we don't get the benefits that straights get and take for granted by marrying, divorcing, etc. Fair is fair and if you're an American you should support that, regardless of your religious beliefs.
cjarvis 4 years ago
cjarvis:In other words you want to be normal.
blessedvic 4 years ago
There's no such thing as a normal human being. I am a natural human being, like everyone else. You need to realize the universe does not begin and end in your own mind and your own beliefs. Try this, admit the possiblity of there being no God. Since there's no evidence and I assume you're sane, you'd have to agree.
cjarvis 4 years ago
cjarvis: I used to believe just that. I was an atheist for over 25yrs. That's why my beliefs are so strong. I know the difference between the two and I choose God over ignorance. If there is no "normal" then nothing is adnormal. Are you advocating child molesting, bestiality, rape and any other behavior that is considered by most people to be adnormal?
blessedvic 4 years ago
That's idiotic. Normal is a word used by conservatives and the religious to manipulate morality. I'm done with this since your mind is closed. Interesting how you say athiests are ignorant when you've chosen to believe in a myth, an idea with no physical reality, and instead of being humble about it (knowing you can't prove any of it) you hurl it at others as if there's really any weight to what you're saying.
cjarvis 4 years ago
Who are these others you speak of who wouldn't have rights if gays were allowed to marry? And why is it that Americans who believe in an imaginary God and claim to be patriotic can't understand that in America, you're supposed to support legislation based on equality, not religion?
cjarvis 4 years ago
cjarvis: I don't support anything that God says is a sin. That also includes fornication,adultry,drunkeness,gossip and many other things that heterosexuals do.Being equal does not make something right.
blessedvic 4 years ago
Again, that is nothing more than an opinion in your own head. If you are a real American you can have all the mythology in your head you want, but you have no right, if you believe in the principals of this country, to legislate against others based on a book you read.
cjarvis 4 years ago
cjarvis: I have ever right to support the beliefs of my Christian beliefs. I have ever right to vote for people who believe the same as I do. Just as you have the right to vote for your choice. BTW, the principals that built this country were Judeo-Christian.
blessedvic 4 years ago
Really?
please name the exclusively "judeao-Christian" principles this country was founded on.
OriginalHamster 4 years ago
Yes, you have the right. But it's clear you want to live in a religious state and have no investment in the founding principals of America, which are equality and freedom, NOT Judeo-Christian beliefs. Try reading the constitution. If you were a true American you'd vote for all to have equality, whether it's at odds with your religious beliefs or not, since they should be separate.
cjarvis 4 years ago
cjarvis: where do your rights come from?
blessedvic 4 years ago
cjarvis: There is no such thing as "gay" marriage.Marriage by definition is one man and one woman.
blessedvic 4 years ago
Wow, that one is brilliant. There used to be no such thing as inter-racial marriage too. Do you understand that as a (hopefully) evolving species, there are times when we will see that this or that current law or "tradition" needs to be changed to adapt to new knowledge or to overturn traditional prejudice?
cjarvis 4 years ago
cjarvis: one man and one woman. Race has nothing to do with it. Sure inter racial marriage used to be illegal but that has nothing to do with the definition of marriage. It is a huge mistake to equate race with behavior.
blessedvic 4 years ago
Really? Because the definition of marriage was changed by the courts to allow inter-racial marriage. If it has nothing to do with the "definition of marriage" then why was it illegal? BTW the current "definition of marriage" is simply what heterosexuals have decided upon. It's not written in stone anywhere.
cjarvis 4 years ago
cjarvis: Where in the Constitution do you find "sep. of church and state"?
blessedvic 4 years ago
The separation of church and state is a legal/political principle derived from the First Amendment, "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof . . ." The phrase "separation of church and state" is generally traced to an 1802 letter by Jefferson to the Danbury Baptists. It has been quoted in several opinions by the US Supreme Court.
cjarvis 4 years ago
cjarvis: Jefferson's letter is always the source for sep.ofchurch&state. It was written over 10yrs. after the 1st amend. Why should a private letter be used to create law? This is why the Emerson case in 1947 was bad law. It has nothing to do with the Constitution. There are many other letters that mention God that could be used to justify the opposite conslusion.
blessedvic 4 years ago
Hyper aggressive Christians such as yourself should ask themselves what they're fighting for. Their own religious freedom (which they have) or the control of Americans they disagree with morally? Despite the fact that God is a myth with no evidence behind it. Isn't that enough to make you keep it to yourself? And "normal" has changed hundreds of times throughout history. It means nothing. We're talking about EQUAL AMERICAN CIVIL RIGHTS. Put some passion behind that, why don't you?
cjarvis 4 years ago
The 1848 Treaty with Mexico begins with "In the name of Almighty God." The treaty also states that both countries are "under the protection of Almighty God, the author of peace"
blessedvic 4 years ago
I'm curious why you feel so strongly about this. If you're not working to change laws in order to restrict those you feel are "immoral" then why are you so uptight about this. No one is trying to censor religion, except in government buildings. Do Christians really have to dominate in every setting of a FREE COUNTRY?
cjarvis 4 years ago
I'd still love to know why you're so uptight about this. No gay marriage would ever have any effect on you, your straight marriage, or any other straight marriage. Religion is a right, as long as it's not intertwined with government, risking a theocracy. What is so hard to understand about all this?????
cjarvis 4 years ago
cjarvis: the only thing I am uptight about is judges who subvert the constitution by ignoring it and creating new rights out of thin air.Religious people have a right to participate in politics.Their rights to worship and practice their religion does not stop at the church door.Why is it that practices that went on for almost 200yrs. are today "unconstitutional"?
blessedvic 4 years ago
I would hope that you would understand why there's a shift. As the world is exposed to more, and more information becomes available, and more prejudices are exposed, and the corruption of religion is exposed, people will stand up and demand stricter lines. It hasn't been very long in America that people can speak out against religion and not be vilified.
cjarvis 4 years ago
In 1822, the United States, along with Great Britain and Ireland, ratified a "Convention for Indemnity Under Award of Emperor of Russia as to the True Construction of the First Article of the Treaty of December 24, 1814." It begins with the same words found in the Preamble to the 1783 treaty: "In the name of the Most Holy and Indivisible Trinity." Only Christianity teaches a Trinitarian view of God.
blessedvic 4 years ago
The treaty was signed by John Adams, Benjamin Franklin, and John Jay. Keep in mind that it was Adams who signed the 1797 Treaty of Tripoli.
blessedvic 4 years ago
If treaties are going to be used to establish the religious foundation of America, then it's essential that we look at more than one treaty. In 1783, at the close of the war with Great Britain, a peace treaty was ratified that began with these words: "In the name of the Most Holy and Undivided Trinity. It having pleased the Divine Providence to dispose the hearts of the most serene and most potent Prince George the Third, by the Grace of God King of Great Britain."
blessedvic 4 years ago
It is important to note that the 1805 treaty with Tripoli, drafted during Jefferson's administration, differs from the 1797 Treaty in that the phrase "as the Government of the United States of America is not in any sense founded on the Christian Religion" is conspicuously absent. Article 14 of the new treaty corresponds to Article 11 of the first treaty.
blessedvic 4 years ago
These are the qualifying statements in the treaty that explain why the phrase "founded on the Christian religion" was used.
The Dey of Tripoli had to be convinced that America, as a Christian nation based on the reading of the state constitutions and official documents, would not impose its religion on the Muslim people.
blessedvic 4 years ago
In drafting the treaty, the United States was assuring the Dey (ruler) of Tripoli that in its struggle with the pirates "it has in itself no character of enmity against the laws, religion or tranquility of Musselmen," that "the said states never have entered into any war or act of hostility against any Mehomitan [Muslim] nation" due to religious considerations.
blessedvic 4 years ago
Joseph Wheelan's historical assessment of the time is on target. "Except for its Native American population and a small percentage of Jews, the United States was solidly Christian, while the North African regencies were just as solidly Muslim—openly hostile toward Christians."
blessedvic 4 years ago
The Barbary pirates habitually preyed on ships from "Christian nations," enslaving "Christian" seamen. Since this was a treaty between the United States and an Islamic government, was America not one of these Christian nations? "Barbary was Christendom's Gulag Archipelago."
blessedvic 4 years ago
The statement in the Treaty of Tripoli was nothing more than a pronouncement "that 'the Christian religion' as a formal institution was not a part of the American government in the same way that the religious structures of Islam are a part of Islamic governments." The statement was to assure a Muslim government that America would not depose that government and impose Christianity by force.
blessedvic 4 years ago
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Deists and Unitarians believed in a personal and transcendent God and appealed to Him frequently in political discourse. If a candidate used deistic and Unitarian language in a political speech today, the ACLU would be the first to proclaim that such an attribution was a clear violation of the "constitutional doctrine" of the "separation of church and state."
blessedvic 4 years ago
2)Congress also recommended that Americans petition God "to prosper the means of religion for the promotion and enlargement of that kingdom which consists in righteousness, peace and joy in the Holy Ghost."
LOC
blessedvic 4 years ago
1)Congress set aside December 18, 1777 as a day of thanksgiving so the American people "may express the grateful feelings of their hearts and consecrate themselves to the service of their divine benefactor" and on which they might "join the penitent confession of their manifold sins . . . that it may please God, through the merits of Jesus Christ, mercifully to forgive and blot them out of remembrance."
blessedvic 4 years ago
On March 16, 1776, "by order of Congress" a "day of Humiliation, Fasting and Prayer" where people of the nation were called on to "acknowledge the over ruling providence of God" and bewail their "manifold sins and transgressions, and, by a sincere repentance and amendment of life, appease his righteous displeasure, and, through the merits and mediation of Jesus Christ, obtain his pardon and forgiveness."
Library of Congress.
blessedvic 4 years ago
cjarvis: homosexualiy is a behavior. It is not who you are or what you are. It is something you do. No one should define themselves by their sexual behavior.BTW, behavior has always had some constraints put on it by law.Behavior is not a "right".
blessedvic 4 years ago
Whether homosexuality is a "behavior" (and it's not) should be decided by knowledge, not opinions, such as yours. And yes, behavior has constraints, which means heterosexuals can't practice sex in public, as with homosexuals. Ironically, any debate about legalizing gay marriage has nothing to do with any of that.
cjarvis 4 years ago
cjarvis: if the founding fathers could celebrate CHRISTmas and Easter on public property why can't we today do the same thing. I guess they did'nt have the aclu to tell them it was unconstitutional.
blessedvic 4 years ago
cjarvis: in case you haven't noticed, atheists and liberals are forcing their beliefs on Christians all over this country.We are expected to believe killing babies is a "right". We are expected to believe that every deviant sexual behavior "normal".All kinds of garbage is allowed because of 1st amend. "right" but Christians are expected not to pray if it offends just one person.
blessedvic 4 years ago
Atheists and liberals aren't doing any such thing. We are simply working to assure that Christians stop using the law to re-design a free America. No abortion kills any of your babies, so how is it any of your business? And what gives you the right to label something you don't agree with as "deviant"? (straight people practice all sorts of sex, from missionary to fetish to kink, just to let you in on the truth)
cjarvis 4 years ago
cjarvis: you need a dictionary. If abortion doesn't kill babies what does it kill?So if it's not anyones business they should stay out of it. Tell that to holocaust survivors.Look up deviant. Anything that deviates from the norm. Homosexual sex is not in the norm.
blessedvic 4 years ago
The "norm" as you so proudly proclaim it, is nothing more than the traditional IDEA of what's normal. It didn't used to be "normal" for blacks and whites to marry, for women to vote, etc. Who are you to define normal? Strange how you say atheists & liberals are trying to define everything, and that's all you've been doing.
cjarvis 4 years ago
And you need glasses. I said someone's abortion doesn't kill "YOUR babies". The holocaust, or any other murder of a human outside their mother's body, does not apply. Abortion rights have several principals, not the least of which is women's right to birth control.
cjarvis 4 years ago
I'm sick of Christians saying the separation of church and state is about people being offended. The reason for separation is so that belief systems (and it's nothing more than a belief) and religious organizations are not allowed access to influence government. Do you know the historical facts regarding why this country was founded by people who rebelled and fled Europe?
cjarvis 4 years ago
cjarvis: One of the reasons people came to this country was because of religious persecution from government. That is what the 1st amend. protects against. It does not prevent religious people from participating in government.
blessedvic 4 years ago
Don't you think that religious persecution was due to religion and government being intertwined? Why is this danger, with all it's historical evidence, lost on Christians? Why is personal religion not enough, why inject it into government in order to institute laws of discrimination, restriction and prejudice? Why do Christians have an obsessive need to control and influence everything and everyone around them?
cjarvis 4 years ago
cjarvis: I have tried 3 times to answer your question about religious persecution and youtube won't post it.
blessedvic 4 years ago
cjarvis: I am not trying to change public policy. I am trying to show correct history. I have never claimed that the government was founded on Christian values. It is the nation that was created with Judeo-Christian values. There is a difference between gov. and nation.
blessedvic 4 years ago
Government and citizenry are two vastly different things in a free society. Living in a free country means that Christians will occasionally have to deal with things they don't deem "moral". Your religion is not supposed to be reflected in society, or it's laws, or it's social policy. Religion is historically very dangerous, imperialistic and violent. That's why you separate it from the government and laws of the country.
cjarvis 4 years ago
The treaty of Tripoli applied to the GOVERNMENT not the NATION.
blessedvic 4 years ago
Many of your comments posted here are not your own and do not indicate they are not. The point of all this is that if you want to be a christian, be a christian, just don't try to change American public policy to reflect your personal belief system.
cjarvis 4 years ago
Someone please explain why christians aren't content with keeping their mythology in their own heads and to themselves. Those who understand God is a myth are not trying to keep those who believe from doing so. We just don't want those who believe restricting the rest of us through their attempts to remake America in the image of their God.
cjarvis 4 years ago
Christians are like homophobes. Most homophobes hide homosexual impulses of their own (tests have proven it) and most christians are power hungry control freaks who behave in no way as Jesus did. It's clear that in 2008, as more people are realizing God is a myth, that christians, in their panic, are trying to seal their mythology into the laws of the United States of America.
cjarvis 4 years ago
The treaty of Tripoli remained on the books for eight years, at which time the treaty was renegotiated, and Article 11 was dropped.
blessedvic 4 years ago
one reason honest people think America was founded by deists is they confuse America's revolution with France's.
blessedvic 4 years ago
"To commit our children to the care of irreligious persons is to commit lambs to the superintendecy of wolves."
-- Timothy Dwight (1752-1817), President of Yale College
Prophetic words of today's public schools.
blessedvic 4 years ago
Timothy Dwight wrote in 1798: "Religion and liberty are the meat and drink of the body politic. Withdraw one of them and it dies...Without religion we may possibly retain the freedom of savages, but not the freedom of New England...If our religion were gone, our state of society would perish with it and nothing would be left worth defending."
blessedvic 4 years ago
Originally a Puritan college, Yale students became enticed by France's deistic "cult of reason," which birthed the bloody French Revolution. Timothy Dwight answered students' questions on faith and by his death, JANUARY 11, 1817, Yale had grown from 110 to 313 students, with a third professing Christianity and 30 entering ministry.
blessedvic 4 years ago
When I was in the second grade I recited the 23 Pslam in a school play. Should I have been kicked out of school?
blessedvic 4 years ago
Until the mid 20th centuary the Bible was used in schools to teach the alphabet and reading. Did the American people not know they were acting unconstitutional?
blessedvic 4 years ago
All 50 states mention God in their constitutions. Should they all be considered unconstitutional?
blessedvic 4 years ago
New York University Professor Emeritus Patricia Bonomi, in her article "The Middle Colonies as the Birthplace of American Religious Pluralism" wrote: "The colonists were about 98 percent Protestant."
blessedvic 4 years ago
Name the founding atheists.
blessedvic 4 years ago
21)Richard Stockton,22)Robert Treat Paine,23)John Dickinson,24)Charles Carroll,25)Roger Sherman,26)William Samuel Johnson,27)John Adams,28)Jedidiah Morse,29)Daniel Webster,30)John Marshall,31)John Langdon,32)Elias Boudinot,33)James Burrill Jr.,34)Dewitt Clinton,35)Caleb Strong,36)John Hamilton,37)Charles Cotesworth Pinckney,38)Rufus Putnam,39)John Cotton Smith,40)Daniel Tompkins,41)Bushrod Washington.
blessedvic 4 years ago
Founding Christians:1)James Otis,2)Samuel Adams,3)John Jay,4)James Wilson,5)John Quincy Adams,6)Alexander Hamilton,7)Noah Webster,8)Rufus King,9)William Findley,10)James Madison,11)Zephaniah Swift,12)James Kent,13)Andrew Young,14)Patrick Henry,15)George Washington,16)Benjamin Rush,17)John Witherspoon,18)George Mason,19)Thomas McKean,20)James McHenry,
blessedvic 4 years ago
Betsy Ross married to John Ross, son of an Episcopal rector at Christ Church, attended Christ's Church with Jefferson, Hamilton and Franklin. The Ross' pew number 12 was near George Washington's.
blessedvic 4 years ago
Those who attribute the Treaty of Tripoli quote to George Washington make two mistakes. The first is that no statement in it can be attributed to Washington (the treaty did not arrive in America until months after he left office); Washington never saw the treaty; it was not his work; no statement in it can be ascribed to him. The SECOND mistake is to divorce a single clause of the treaty from the remainder which provides its context.
blessedvic 4 years ago
Either you start making valid points or go somewhere else with your semantic and mostly bullshit revisionist propaganda.
If anything the founding fathers were mostly deists.
thequantumflux 4 years ago
Article XI simply distinguished America from those historical strains of European Christianity which held an inherent hatred of Muslims; it simply assured the Muslims that the United States was not a Christian nation like those of previous centuries (with whose practices the Muslims were very familiar) and thus would not undertake a religious holy war against them.
blessedvic 4 years ago
Though the Founders themselves openly described America as a Christian nation, they did include a constitutional prohibition against a federal establishment; religion was a matter left solely to the individual States. Therefore, if the article is read as a declaration that the federal government of the United States was not in any sense founded on the Christian religion, such a statement is not a repudiation of the fact that America was considered a Christian nation.
blessedvic 4 years ago
This article may be read in two manners. It may, as its critics do, be concluded after the clause "Christian religion"; or it may be read in its entirety and concluded when the punctuation so indicates. But even if shortened and cut abruptly ("the government of the United States is not in any sense founded on the Christian religion"), this is not an untrue statement since it is referring to the federal government.
blessedvic 4 years ago
The 1797 treaty with Tripoli was one of the many treaties in which each country officially recognized the religion of the other in an attempt to prevent further escalation of a "Holy War" between Christians and Muslims.
blessedvic 4 years ago
This has been flagged as spam show
Washington's own contemporaries did not question his Christianity but were thoroughly convinced of his devout faith,a fact made evident in the first-ever compilation of the The Writings of George Washington, published in the 1830s.
blessedvic 4 years ago
Your last thought bugged me to no end. Creating a belief system requires gathering facts from diverse sources. I am a weak atheist/deist/pantheist who believes that is nation is a Christian entity. I base my argument on the demographics of population then and now, the fallout from the Revolutionary War and the facts cited BY BOTH SIDES. From my explorations, sheer number alone trumps the non-Christian nation argument.
opinionhead444 4 years ago
It wasn't a war of religion, your point is invalid.
Roguethoughts 4 years ago
How many members of the masses were illiterate? How technologically lax were they in those times? News traveled slowly from what I understand. Remember also that the founding father were elitist, so it's likely they didn't travel in religious circles.
opinionhead444 4 years ago
They were many CHRISTIANS in this nation, AND THEY CONSTITUTED THE MAJORITY. Why are they lost in this debate?
Also, look at the mission statement of New England Colony from 1643, which states that the purpose of the colony was to advance the kingdom of the LORD. If you look, you will find other sources out there.
America, land of the free and home of the brave, worships GOD and Christ.
opinionhead444 4 years ago
Well There was also a right to freedom of speech called the First Amendment if people can share there personal beilefs so can Christians. part one. writing more
hollystar87 4 years ago
nice work =) Well done!
ThatOneQuestion 4 years ago
thanks :)
thequantumflux 4 years ago
Love the Armand Van Helden song playing in the background nice touch..
djairrick1200 4 years ago
You are the first to pick that up, good ear
thequantumflux 4 years ago
I love that video. Well put. I wish people would bring these issues up on the media. With all the Christian networks on television, you hear the same rhetoric. People believe it and never look farther than that.
Rhonda9 4 years ago
Good ol' Thomas Paine
frade001 4 years ago
Great points...I have a couple videos also covering this as well. I know some fundies that say that it doesn't mater if were were a Christian Nation then...all that maters is we are one NOW. Crazy huh?
F0XholeAtheist 4 years ago
Crazy is deffinately a word for it, personally I like delusional. You should reply to this video or dragon2wolf's with your videos.
thequantumflux 4 years ago
Critical thinking at it's finest on this subject matter. Beyond five stars--way way.
(The music is PERFECT for this work.)
xild 4 years ago
Excellent! You should make this a response to my redwine vid or my founding fathers vid. Lets get them altogether so that we can direct people to a lot of videos at once!
dragon2wolf 4 years ago
will do!
thequantumflux 4 years ago
what a great idea!
xild 4 years ago
You're right of course...but it doesn't matter. US lawmakers have been ignoring the US Constitution for many years. For example, Bush's invasion of Iraq was / is clearly illegal under Article 51 of