Hohan Soken - Chinto

[olbywong717c]

Your vid went viral on Eritrea

[houseoflightkarate]

My previous youtube tag was @katafreak. And I do believe there are many hidden technique, and it was not told to me so I would pay my instructor because I have never handed over a dime to him except for the expense of my uniform and equipment. Karate truly is magical because it changes who we are inside, not in a "we are the elite" sense, but it forges us to change everything about how we do things. Im not the same person I was before karate and I have this man and the men he taught to thank

[koryudrake41]

it would be nice to see more 2 man drills from this system....its unique in its bodychange principles..it would be good to show it in drill patterns

[chatanyarasan]

do not feel so much disapointment for those bad karate sensei , there are some who are still doing old ways , there is so much magic in karate when you train with a truly heart.

[JpConor]

thats great but he made a mistake, you see if he didn't he souldn't need to turn round at the end. he should only turn 180 and end up that his kick and punch being in the opposite direction, you know what i mean? ;S lol

[Specter1957]

@JpConor afraid that you are mistaken, he completed the kata the way it should be for his Ryu Ha.

I've been doing chinto for a while, and have learned it from two different sources, both of whom recieved it from Soken......no real difference except for some of the change body...one person being larger than the other was shown a slightly different taisabaki for this kata

[samuraiaj1]

@JpConor Your observation of the error at the end of the Kata is correct. I am a senior student of Sensei James Coffman.

[neroyuna]

i know the man who had been taught syorinryu by soken sensei for long time in Okinawa.

but many karate school of shorin ryu matsumura is mixed another style,ryu-ha.

long ago, karate was taught only a few person like relative or family.

Each student has their own body type so teaching method of kata or tha way was different for each of them.

[thekarateguyca]

Another One of Grand Master Kensei Taba's Instructors

[uminchu7th]

Even when the kata are done "correctly" the way taught in class, they are not the way they do the kata alone. I've seen several Okinawan masters reveal different kata.. Also as they age, they leave out some moves, such as kicks.

[aiko4321]

Is the ending of kata is correct? Normally Chinto ends facing back and then have to turn 180 degrees to come to original position. But, Soken Sensei ended it facing front and turns 360 degrees. I think he mistakenly rotate 360 at 0.28, instead of 180, which makes the ending incorrect. (I am not a Matsumura Seito Practicioner, so I don't know exactly). But, normally Chinto ends to opposite direction and Kise Sensei also ends in that way..

[OkinawaShorinryu]

Actually two different endings of the kata were on this clip. And you're correct about the ending, after the 180 spin and kick then step and punch, you turn back your left 180 facing forward with fist on hips feet shoulder width apart, then place feet together and fist back into the guard out from the groin a few inches. Why he did it like this I don't know, it's not the way he taught it. But GM Soken knew many versions of his katas.

[aiko4321]

I think he mistakenly doing it incorrect. But, I do not know exactly

[OkinawaShorinryu]

That may have been a mistake on his part. From this video clip and others he has this expression on his face showing he enjoys being filmed/video. He was once a photographer in Argentina, so he liked photograpghy. I took fotos of him many times, he liked to pose for the camera.

[masserby]

This is the same as Gankaku in Shotokan.

[joncobber]

no offence, but ive seen ictures of this guy and he luks like one of those toy punk-trolls

[fuwafuwausagi]

No offense but you seem like a punk ass female dog to me; but like I said - no offense.

[farorin]

Everything I have heard is AWESOME! and this kata.... its great to see it before it was changed to much by others.

[fenderrlee]

Sensei Kise and Hohan Soken were my senseis in Okinawa -1977

[BJJHap]

Master Soken is one Bad MOFO!!!!

[waichafe7]

Sensei Soken vivio varios años en argentina , pero al parcer no dejo alumnos formales alla.

[OkinawaShorinryu]

Grandmaster Soken did many demo in public, even this kata, Chinto, he didn't mind being photograph or video (8mm back then). The things he didn't want public he would not do in public and he would let you know what not to share with others, and the higher rank students as Kise, Kuda, etc. where shown alot more than me, of course, that was not open to just anyone.

[anaaman]

He did not mind doing Chinto, but he did not perform it truthfully. He left several techniques not done. I think the only person who was able to record true videos of Soken & kise is James Coffman.

[OkinawaShorinryu]

Others claim to have videos also, and I personally had seen some take videos of Master Soken when I was there. Are you saying Master Soken is a fake here? Have you seen these videos by James? I had seen Soken do Chinto many times, true he's not lifting his kicks up, but if you know the kata you know the intension. Have you actually seen Master Soken and Kise in practice yourself?

[samisondrugsnow]

hohan i challange u to a fight

[brasshandmartialarts]

Even in his older age he could have knocked you down with his stare,

Osu, O sensei.

[katafreak]

i think it is awesome to see osensei here but i believe this shouldbt be put out for everyone to see, matsumura seito is a very rare style and all this will do is bring about copycats and will destroy this kata.

and i have the same views of the kenshin kan style, but my belief is that kise sensei does not want to share the secrets of his real karate except with a few choice individuals. before soken died kise taught a different system than soken himself. he taught shorin and shorinji together

[drocsoulja843]

i agree with you however this video was taken and put into a documentary about Sensei Soken. I have watched many styles of Chinto and many dojos already butchered this kata. The video is great and it shows a young karate student, especially one who may train learning Sensei Soken's concepts, to see him perform a kata like Chinto. Chinto was the second to last kata i learned before earning my shodan rank in Matsumura. I thought it was simple but its actually i found it difficult when studying.

[LifelessProphet]

@katafreak I agree. This is amazing footage, and it was only intended for a select few. As much as I love watching this, it feels wrong to see it without following the correct chanels and earning it.

[confusedsay]

@LifelessProphet Yep, not enough association and monthly dues paid to half arse instructors.

[MatsumuraSeito]

@katafreak Actually after GM Soken started his Matsumura Seito system (Ryu) with (Hanshi) Kise around 1968, Kise dropped the Shorinji ryu and taught Matsumura Seito. He was learning it and teaching us with GM Soken around most of the time. After Soken quit teaching (1978 era) I do not know what Kise taught. As far as these clips of GM Soken, they are all on the video 'The Life of a Grandmaster' by G. Alexander. Also how can you destroy this kata?

[samuraiaj1]

@MatsumuraSeito I agree with your statement. I am a senior student of Sensei Jame Coffman.

[MatsumuraSeito]

@katafreak You see for yourself GM Soken doing it. There so many styles doing it so many ways already, adapting it to their way since Bushi Matsumura. In a way I feel you are correct, it may already be destroyed, in another way it just done different by other styles. A few more years one may not even recognize the kata. I believe much of that is the teacher forget how they were taught. IMO

[confusedsay]

@katafreak There's nothing secret anymore. Nothing magical, never was to the Okinawans, only to us Americans. Then you have sensei's that want you to think they're the only one so they can charge you.

[uminchu7th]

No, he should't be on public website.

[TSUNAMIICHI]

Master Soken loved teaching family karate. Being video from Garrett Sensei in California. He has better video for History. Questions though: Should Grand Master be on public Web site??

[bigrobnz]

its great to see some film of the master!

[brucefetter]

really nice! thanks for the sharing.

[tysump]

very cool jsoken. hohan soken taught my sensei roy s. canter jr.

[hschaefer]

My father talked about Hohan Soken. I watch him move and can see a bit of what my dad tried to aspire to be. My father was granted 4th degree Black Belt of Karate Kobudo on April 15th, 1967 when stationed at Kadena AFB in Okinawa, Japan. Hohan was then 78 yrs.old.

[kempobrad]

then he primarily studied with fuse kise, lucky man.

[iangarcia]

my sensei studied with hohan soken ronnie lindsey.

and not really because kise sensei is not a good sensei he teaches his students the wrong style of shorin ryu.

and teaches them very bad basics.

[kempobrad]

well soken obviously saw something in him. who are you or your sensei to question? "wrong style" ..that's a bit silly. if he was chosen as soken's heir, then he has the power to do that. being bound by tradition was never something people were supposed to do.

[iangarcia]

yeah but he has destroyed the style. and sensei lindsey never questioned it. he just says that he teaches bad karate.

[kempobrad]

how has he destroyed the style? because he doesnt teach EXACTLY what soken taught? so what? soken got his info from more than one source too, so what?

i've seen him, and some of his students and they all looked pretty good to me.

[iangarcia]

yeah but they're blocks are bad and their stances couldn't be worse. to learn useful martial arts you have to have good stances that make sense

[specterprime]

so, your one of Rons students.....I recall back in 1987, I corrected one of Rons Students....his stance and blocking was shall we say lacking.....and he was at Kise's dojo for a black belt testing,and then he came to Tengan for additioanl training with me....ask Ron about me....you will gain one of two answers....both stating me as being insane in my training

[movinmeat]

Never mind the presumptuousness of declaring Kise's karate "wrong," but your comment is also very ill-informed. I had the honor of working out just today with Master Kise. He is 76 years old and barely five foot tall, but he threw me around like a rag doll. He is tough as nails and has a very deep understanding of karate.

Spend some time getting to understand his system and you will come to respect it better, even if you never come to love it.

[specterprime]

Kise sensei was born May 5th 1935.....so 73 years of age....he has had some injuries the last few decades....just imagine how he would be without the limitations of the scar material

[LilRonin1]

Pretty old at this point. This is from the 'forbidden' white crane video I take it?

[NewEnglandBudo]

No this is Chinto, it is not the Hakutsuru kata

[kirokukan]

Thats wicked I have only read about this guy

[jsoken]

My father got all excited when we found this video. Hohan Soken was his grandfather. He was around 89 years old here, he was great.

[Mobile2Mobile3]

Is he truly your dads grandfather? What year did Soken die? My teacher was Ricky Rose and trained with Soken. Would love to hear your story.

[OkinawaShorinryu]

Born May 25, 1889

Retired from teaching 1978

Died December 1982

[kempo206]

This is footage that Sensei Charles Garrett Film, it was later produced forsale as a doucmentary.

[Animan2006]

Great footage, thanks for posting it!