Electronic Church Organs - THE TOP SIX (three and two manuals only)

[steamrocks]

I'm sure you are going to get many brands 'coming out of the woodwork' in the comments. You should give a listen to Phoenix out of Canada, and of course to Marshall & Ogeltree, the only electronic organ manufacturer whose products cost more than pipe organs. I also believe you should give Allen more of a fair shake.

[mrstevecbournias]

Sorry the Rodgers sounds aweful.

[Sj64299]

You must be a Rodgers Dealer, their the only ones who like them and Johannus.

[resultant64]

just learnt that there is a a company called Marshall and Ogletree ( very expensive their lowest being inder $ 200,000)....on the Definitive speaker site.... and also the mention of it here..

In the comparison there are too many Rodgers.. What about Copeman Hart?

Rodgers is powerful though.. Wish i could hear and try these big digital ones....

[billobach]

Non mi piace...

[oofahman]

Three Rodgers' in the top six!!!! YESSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS!!!!!

[yominasan]

Hi ! Thanks for that video. I love the music played by the Johannus Rembrandt 3900. I think it's a hymn. Please what is the name of that music? Where can i find it? Thank you very much everybody !!!!

[hendrikd56]

@yominasan Yes, you're right it's a hymn: Holy, holy , holy and I guess its music is to be bought at any self-respecting music-store. Greetings from Holland.

[plutonium136]

Widor's Toccata. a perfect ending to an awesome video. very hard piece. took me a year to learn the whole thing. PERFECT VIDEO. except for the fact that theres only one allen.

[kingjames8283]

I am very biased towards Rodgers Instruments. Apparently I'm not alone as Marshall & Ogletree concur with that assessment as well since they use Rodgers consoles to build their organs. The console is what you see, the organ is what you hear. Since most all consoles (regardless of who built them) are built with nearly the same components, it all comes down to voicing and tuning whether it be pipe samples or actual pipes. I like a lot of manufacturers consoles, but I will always side with Rodgers

[MrSteviec13]

Who made this list? The Phoenix should have been on there!

[abaco62]

@MrSteviec13

This list has been made by me. The Phoenix Organ it is not known in Italy.

[hgloeser]

@MrSteviec13 Ahlborn be Made to Germany Heimenkirch by Ditzingen !

Have self Ahlborn of Philippines !

Greeting Heinz !

[JoRoAM1]

Youtube audio quality leaves much to be desired.

Second it is impossible to judge any organ, pipe or digital unless one plays or hears it in its accoustic environment. It is said that the most imortant stop for any instrument is the room wherein it speaks.

So really this comparison is unimportant and yes I would agree biased.

Where is Marshall Ogletree? Phoenix? Walker?

[GDORDON]

What gives with this list? Allen gets a few short bars of music to the obvious bias for Rodgers. Some of the comments also indicate that one does not like the Classic Allen sound for its harshness. I have never heard such a comment. As always, no matter what digital or pipe organ is installed, the really important aspect of that installation is the voicing.

[baldwinc630]

This was a nice compilation of the top 6 organs. It would be a hard decision between the Johannus and the Rodgers. As an independent technician, I found the Johannus is better built, but soundwise, the Johannus has a warmer sound. The Allen has improved their sound quality over the years, but is still too harsh and artificial.

[michigan49738]

In my opinion, I think most companies tend to make their mixtures more "bright" in tone, and their 16' and 32' stops loud. Not the best balance in my opinion. Allen, on the other hand (as I've played several models & eras of technology) has always tried to make a nice blended balance in factory voicing. The "harsh American sound" as someone referred to, is that balance I mentioned. It isn't incredibly bright and high in the mixtures and higher pitched voices.

[taillesstobycat]

I'd say that to truly judge they'd all have to be voiced by the same person then one organist would have to play the same music with like registrations. Allen Quantum contains 4 different organ suites (thus "quantum") so someone saying they don't like the "harsh" American sound could switch to the German, French or whatever other suites they've chosen to have. Allen by far is the leader. They are the original digital.

[railroadjay1]

Only realy pipes make the true organ sounds. And of couse last longet too

[Jeep2005ful]

I would have rated them a little differently myself to. They all sounded great. But personally I love the Allen. Allen Organs to me sound more realistic. Allen Organs also tend to be built more authentic. The reason I say this is because I have played Rodgers and Allens before. I side with Allen.

[quinn244]

Rodgers trillium 838 are very nice organs. Thats the model and brand of organ that my church owns and I play it every sunday!!!!

[lastcorpsestanding]

I'd still pit Walker Technical against any of these. I've posted several recordings of Classic Organ's C750 - it's an all Walker digital, and I'd buy another in an instant.

[meknight77]

To not include Makin is a travesty!

[bandlane]

How much is the price for a Rogders Trillium 968?

[guitgeo]

You hit it right on Georgiaorganist. It did seem the room acoustics and mike placement varied from sample to sample.

[kjsimonUSMC]

wonderful i had no idea that pipe organs could be mimicked so well

[Georgiaorganist]

It seems to me that the only fair way to judge the sound of these organs is for them to be playing the same music.....and each of us listening to them with the same speakers!

[pianolover51]

Also to be fair have the same organist playing and similar registrations.

[quinn244]

I agree with your rankings. My church currently owns a rodgers trillium master piece 838 and Its sound is superb.

[posaune16]

Had you actually played the Allen Quantum series, you might've chosen differently...

[bordone32]

i'm agree with your classification

[djbjr1130]

State of the Art:

1. Walker

2. Marshall & Ogletree

Middle of the Road:

1. Rodgers

2. Allen

Budget:

1. Hauptwerk

2. Johannus

[vernon361970]

my church is planning on purchasing one of these organs and since budget is strong factor we will go for the rodgers 838 any other reccomendations would be welcome

[pipeorganistken]

Forget investing in anything that is difficult to get service. Service is spotty to non existent in the Imports to the U.S. Even the best two of the Imports Content and Johannus have that problem. Rodgers, since their acquisition by Roland does not back their older instruments at all well. I want a new organ myself. My current instrument is a huge 3 manual analog Allen with the works in a separate cabinet. I can still get all the parts. This means Allen again for me..price or not.....

[Ntalikeris666]

Anyways, i would never buy an instrument unless i go and see it first from upclose.

[speaks3703]

My top six would have to be as follows:

6) Phoenix PD364

5) Ahlborn-Galanti 2400

4) Rodgers Trillium Masterpiece 968

3) Johannus Rembrandt 397

2) Ahlborn-Galanti 3200

1) Johannus American Classic VII

If I were to include instruments larger than three manuals, this list would change dramatically.

[assistantorganist]

Phoenix are not obsolete!??! where on earth did you get that information from?

Phoenix are run by two gentlemen who used to work for Makin organs (now owned by Johannus) and use up to date modern real time sampling. Fantastic bits of kit. I have overseen 2 installations of their instruments and have found them not only the best quality but also the best value for money.

[JORGEZACHARIAS]

I dont like the sound of Ahlborn digital organ, I like the Viscout organs. In my opinion Viscount and Allen are the best digital organs in the world.

[speaks3703]

Allen may well be the worst sound available in an electronic organ. Ahlborn-Galanti, Rodgers, Johannus, Phoenix, and Monarke all reoduce a superior product. Monarke is the best of those five in my opinion.

[organist777]

Nick, you live in Greece, and Phoenix Organs does not have a presence there, which is probably the reason you did not receive a reply. BTW, I did reply to your request and told you I would be glad to provide you with an estimate if you would send me more information about your specific needs. You never sent me any information. Phoenix Organs are all built on demand and as such there is not a "price list" to quote from.

[Ntalikeris666]

Hello David. Yes i know, i live in greece and unfortunately there are not any organ dealers here. I am not blaming you for something in particular but according to my mail box, the last 7 or so mails i sent you had to do with information requests. Though, i don't know if something happened and they never got to you for some reason. I also know that Phoenix organs are custom made, thats why i was asking many questions about prices and so on.

[Ntalikeris666]

"Phoenix Organs are all built on demand and as such there is not a "price list" to quote from. "

I am sure about that. The only thing that can be can be confusing, is HOW many things to put on an organ when its custom built, and what are the ones provided together with the console (For example, Expression pedals, and so on).

[Ntalikeris666]

I might have not given you excessive information about details, but had requested a price estimation, considering the stoplist, Temperament, Key Type and Manual number, Pedalboard, expression & Crescendo Pedal, Drawstop Details, Wood stain, Historical tunings and transportation & installation cost.

For some of the above, i also had questions.

Thats when for some reason, i stopped receiving replies.

[organist777]

I received but one email from you, no others. I am the dealer for the southeastern US and as you can guess, you are not within my territory. :-) I have known Phoenix Headquarters in Canada to be VERY responsive to customers, but they should not be who you would contact either. Phoenix Organs UK may not have responded simply due to your location, not being in any serviced area.

[Ntalikeris666]

I see...

I never mentioned anything about the technical service of the organs itself.

[Ntalikeris666]

Hmmm, thats strange about the mails...

Hmm, i had not thought of that, but they did not tell me anything about it either. (about being out of the service area).

[quinn244]

most of the organist in my church wanted the trillium 968 but we got the 838 instead but the 838 is a very nice organ

[pipeorganistken]

Here's my ratings and I have played them

6. Phoenix: Obsolete technology, unknown service, 5. Viscount: Good tonal accuracy/poor service if something fails. 4. Johannus: Good tonal accuracy/service is spotty and parts obsoleted early. 3. Content: Best tonal accuracy/excellent quality/service spotty. 2. Rodgers: pricey, owned by Roland, parts a problem as they age, great tonal accuracy. 1. Allen: pricey, tonally excellent, = to Rodgers, still services 50+ year old organs.

[organist777]

Why do you say Phoenix Organs are obsolete and where did you get such erroneous information? BTW, service on Phoenix Organs is fine, and every organ built can be serviced and updated to current the state of the system if desired.

[Ntalikeris666]

If the comment was going to me, i never said that Phoenix organs are obsolete. Quite the opposite actually.

[tduser1]

GO RODGERS!!

[quinn244]

my church has a rodgers trillium masterpiece 838 and it's a really good organ. ROdgers organs are known to have the best quality digital organs out seeing as they have created pdi it stands for perelell digital imaging there organs are made by rodgers and roland so there very good pdi has like 40 computers working to reproduce the sound of the stops

[poldus62]

I werk 20 years in Ahlborn and I was the sound maker. Now it is close! Rip. And thank you all.

[bkde2007]

What Alborn got bankrupted? no way! but i always love the Organ its sound so real likea pipe organ! but i must say i love this list which is so good and true!

[organjohn231]

I've played most of these, and would've rated them a bit differently; in particular wouldn't have rated the Rembrant this high (I play one every week, quality if pretty bad). Johannus has a Monarke line which are far superior to Rembrant series. The Allen are definitely most rugged, but I don't care for that harsh, classic American sound... My personal favourite is the Content D5800 - I played one for a few years, console quality/sound are really good - that organ just seemed to play itself.

[DeadEyeSprout]

Our church has a Trillium 968 its pretty amazing actually i luv it...but our church is planing on moving to pipes! YAY!!!

[32ContreBombarde]

I occasionally practice on a 968 Rodgers when I don't feel like driving an hour to Old First Church where the Shantz is. I like the Rodgers, it may be where the console is in relation to the speakers but I wish it has more clarity when moving to full tutti.

[organjohn231]

European organs often have a flat / straight pedal board instead of a radial concave (AGO spec) pedal board. Everything else meets AGO. In my opinion Content is much better than Johannus, but Johannus has a Monarke series which are pretty good quality with impressive sampling technology.

[paranormaalutrecht]

Sorry to say but the ahlborn sounds the best of all. The other ones are ugly and bombastic...

[blackmaestro]

Just happy to see Johannus so high on the list. I have played both Rodgers and Johannus in churches. I think the flutes on Johannus are actually from Southern Germany. The solo stops are really good too. You should check out the Rembrandt 397/497-technology is quite good. I think Rodgers still beats them with chorus reeds though.

[lustful2]

The Rodgers 968 Trillium series are excellent. i know of at least two leading cathedral Uk Organists who have played them and say they are good. ive played a few cheap organs like The Viscounts which are poor quality.  Also wear and tear the cheaper makes tend to have problems with the key contacts or stop tabs going and pedal boards falling apart.

[davlber]

I play a Johannus 4 manual 2007/with 46 ranks of Casavant pipes! Johannus is the cheapest quality, poorly constructed and ancient technology instrument of any Digital organ out there. I don't even use the digital voices only the pipes. Stuff breaks and falls off the console all the time. What true piece of junk - JOHANNUS!

[TheodenThengling]

davlber, I am very curious as to what organ you are referring.

[Cindermakers]

What is your opinion on the Ahlborn 4400? It sounds very good to me.

[Inexor]

I appreciate your comments, greenspacesforever. They are very similar to my own thoughts. And ccoraxfan, the cost of buy, installing and maintaining even a small pipe organ can be 10 times that of a very, very nice electronic organ. They have their place and deserve more respect than they typically recieve.

[Organsforme]

Based on what I'm hearing through computer speakers I have to agree with your conclusions. I wouldn't want this written into stone without hearing these instruments in their own environments though.

The best sounding electronic organ I have ever played was one set up properly in a dealers showroom.

[carteru93]

I liked the Rodger Trillium 838 most I think.

[quinn244]

@carteru93 Tis a fine organ indeed. My Church currently has one and its very fun to play

[scotto40]

To put Allen so low on the list is purely laughable. Who wants a bunch of clunky lighted drawknobs. Yuck. Allen has standard moving unlighted drawknobs. The sound is far superior. Allen was the first digital instrument. Their technology and construction is far superior.

[tworincones]

I play a brand new Allen. The drawnobs are waaaay to LOUD (when using the memory pistons). Can't use them during prayer. Their technology is very limited. Not enough memory for presets, no split pedal capabilities, no individual division cancel button, pistons don't come out when using crescendo pedal, can't use crescendo pedal and pull stops at the same time (or vice versa), and the list goes on. But I enjoy how it sounds.

[tworincones]

Construction and technology is NOT superior. I used to work for a organ building company and I play a brand new Allen organ.

[Audinos]

Our church recently bought a Rodgers Trillium with unlighted, moving drawknobs. I have never seen these on a Rodgers before, but they are practically silent. I have always preferred the robust construction of Allen organs and their ability to repair any organ they have ever built, this Rodgers is very impressive in construction as well as in tone quality.

[quinn244]

@scotto40 I definitely prefer lighted stops. I believe that the rodgers organs have the best sound quality. Everyones entitled to their own opinion.

[helloitsmelol097]

@quinn244 I like the organ also I wish I had a chance to play it but I gotta say I do like the one I play. It's a organ that was pretty much totally restored in the 1980's and later was added onto. My favorites from it are the Oboe 8', Double Trumpet 16', and loudest Tuba Mirabilis 8' (RARELY used). I love any organ but after playing a pipe organ or a electric pipe organ and theator organ doesn't even compare for me.

[latribe]

Very very interesting! Thanks for posting! However, come and do a recording on the improved 5 manual organ at Hammerwood Park. We have not done a proper YouTube recording of the improved instrument yet but it contains Makin, Ahlborn, Content, Viscount technology together with a 64/128ft and French Trumpets of my own design, together with a speaker system which no commercial manufacturer can match. Even hi-end commercial instruments use hifi speakers and often sound only like a hi-fi recording.

[flaleesman]

dont like any organ that has midi or the little green window on console , that is so fake and not true , even when they add pipes to a electronic organ, there should be a law protecting the real wind blown pipe organ from want to be's and imitators , impersonaters id never play one been offered by many churches to be the organist upon arriving and see the want to be organ I walk out, i only have time for the real mccoy sorry!

[tworincones]

You moron a lot of PIPE ORGAN builders now install the "little green window". The green window tells you what memory level or functions that you are using. I used to work for a pipe organ builder and they had that "green window" before the electronic organ ever did. Allen organ is still behind some of the pipe organ technology. And further more some churches can't afford the real thing let alone maintaining them twice a year.

[rmb10]

I have some Marshall and Ogletree stops in my pipe organ and they are amazing--several pipe organ tuners/techs and a couple of organ builders have not been able to tell the difference. Other than M&O, which is definitely high end, Rodgers is the only other digital that is decent. I just voiced and dedicated a 928 that is very successful in a terrible room. I dedicated one of the other European instruments on ths list two years ago--and the best sound on it was the power switch clicking off!

[tworincones]

I have tuned and voiced pipe organ in my younger days and I think that Marshall & Ogletree is the best! Phoenix is awesome too. A friend of mine who used to be a sales rep for Rodgers and currently plays two churches that have a Rodgers organ just played the latest model organ from Allen...He was blown away. He couldn't stop playing. Three hours later he admitted that the new Allen is so much better than Rodgers. The Rodgers sampling from their web site is pathetic.

[speaks3703]

You really need to do this again with better recordings on properly voiced instruments. Otherwise, you are taking a shot in the dark. You might also want to look into other builders. Phoenix is said (and I would agree) to be the best imitation you can buy. Still, none can replace a good pipe organ.

[lorbo77]

i heard some samples from Phoenix about romantic french organ type and the sound was awful.. Phoenix seems good to me only for baroque\ancient samples

[nickgtv]

Interesting examples, but it's "apples and oranges" here: different acoustics, even different categories (Rodgers Allegiant vs. Trillium). Also, it's pretty evident certain instruments weren't really voiced by a voicer with an educated ear. And as for the pipe vs. electronic argument, I've played way too many pipes that were poorly spec'd, winded, maintained...way too many variables compared to electronics.

[bobjohnson001]

To my ears, Phoenix as well as Marshall & Ogletree have made fine sounding instruments

[ccoraxfan]

Of course, the Allen fanboys all have to come out and complain that they're not at the top...

But of course they're all just electronic imitations anyway, it's not as if it all really matters much! I'll take a REAL organ any day! But still, I must agree that these are pretty good imitations, if you only listen to the samples. The best electronic imitation can only sound as good as a recording of a real organ, but a real organ can be heard LIVE!

[Brandotuomikoski]

true but most cant affor 5 mill for a pipe, so all we have to do is wait till some one gets it totally right

[ccoraxfan]

Many small churches have installed pipe organs, and most pipe organs don't cost $5 million! Even used pipe organs can sound wonderful, and I've seen them sell for less than a thousand. Some are given away! But if money is the most important issue, then by all means, replace real organs with imitations. Eventually even the imitations will disappear because nobody will enjoy them anymore. We'll hear nothing but fake music from fake instruments that sound as fake as they are.

[greenspacesforever]

Electronic organs are "live" in their acoustical environments. If chosen carefully, voiced by someone with discrimination, and carefully maintained, they easily serve the worship environment. Electronic instruments suffer from the same problems as pipe instruments - improper installation in some corner, infrequent repair, and sometimes improper registration / playing technique for the service being conducted. It's not fair to damn the instruments for these conditions.

[ccoraxfan]

I have a different reason for damning electronic instruments. I don't like them because they are usually imitations of the real thing. The best sounding electronic instruments, such as M&O, are merely playing back recorded samples of real instruments. Why try so hard to imitate something else? Why steal the sounds of a real instrument? If they can't make it on their own merits, it would be better to have the real thing. An electronic organ is illusory, it is an ersatz organ.

[Arky83mi]

Has anyone actually heard an allen after its been voiced by a GOOD tech??? It can be pretty damn convincing, but ONLY if voiced by someone who knows what theyre doing, otherwise it's just another toaster;-)

[olivierlatry]

I have voiced a small Allen recently over the space of 2 weeks. This is a quite acceptable time-scale. Just think how long it takes for a pipe voicer to voice one stop! So many electronics sound bad because of inadequate time spent on the voicing. and (in the case of johannus/makin) poor software.

[necmusic]

true enough - but doesn't the same logic apply to a pipe organ? in the hands of a bad technician, a quality instrument will sound like crap

[davbear221]

having played extensively on all of these instruments I have concluded that only two are worthy of calling themselves "immitation pipe organs" and they are Johannus(you must tour their facility, amazing!) and Allen. Rodgers has lagged behind in technology for sometime now and has a really pitiful sound. Ahlborn is totally not there yet!

[Grunthog1949]

I enjoy all these instruments, but I kind of like the Copemann Hart instruments I've played.

[CDOG111]

Does anyone know what the piece is that the winning organ the Rodgers Trillium, plays??

[octavegeigen4]

"Toccata from Symphony No. 5" by Charles-Marie Widor. One of my favorite pieces.

[Principal16]

helkkari!Allen should be 1st

[Brandotuomikoski]

true

[gmcausland]

I think a fairer presentation would be for someone to record the same piece on each instrument with the highest quality file resolution as you can.

The Allen organ seemed to suffer from a poor quality sound file.

Viscount, Wyvern and Phoenix do pretty good instruments nowadays, and Makin organ are good too.

[Brandotuomikoski]

I think Phoenix and makin are the best of what youve said. this allen had an absolute horrible recording and did not give an whatso ever fair chance.surly better than all showed. I just bought a Content M5800 positive organ and I am absolutly stunned with the sound. Better than any johannus, or rodgers, and viscount ive played/

[Xerox6085I]

@Brandotuomikoski Surprise surprise! Johannus OWNS Makin and has for quite some time. It's about the samples whether they be Eurpean, from the UK or USA. The Makin samples are wonderful I wish Johannus would borrow a set of them for their line of products.

[alanwm1978]

I have to agree why did the Allen not come last? And that comes from someone who plays an Allen MDS-60 every week and thinks is not too bad.

[speaks3703]

Try a Phoenix on for size

[Brandotuomikoski]

I cant believe you put the Allen 3 manual before all those! Certainly better than the Rodgers Allegent and Johannus organs

[AllenOrganCrazy]

I totally agree with your choices! My favorite Rodgers organ was your no. 1! Thats awesome!