I notice how the man with the sword never swings sideways towards his left, but always overhead, and also is too close to the unarmed man. The advantage of a longsword is length. I'm convinced this show is tilted in the grappler's favor.
@IvixHira He's close enough to hit, notice that the unarmed one always moves in. His arms are kinda shorter than the sword. The video's point is to show the techniques, no need to have the swordsman cut the guy.
Great video. It might also be good to try it with a weapon that isn't so dangerous, like a wooden sword or one of those padded things that use for the fake melees, because your partner could really try to hit you with it. Obviously the sword is blunted but I think it could still do some damage.
Padded swords behave nothing like the real thing, and as a result royally screw up interpretations and technique. Wooden swords handle less like a sword, but are decent enough. Surprisingly, I find the metal swords actually hurt less than wood.
Ooooh yeah, lol. Oddly enough, despite supposedly being safer, I've found the synthetic wasters hurt more than wood as well. The pain hits you, a nice sting sets in, and then just lingers for way too long. (like taking a shot to the crotch)
So whats the deal with grabbing a sword by the blade as a defense? Or as an attack for that matter. I'm pretty sure they sharpened those swords back in the day. This isn't a criticism, I'm genuinely curious.
@insolvancy Longswords where heavy and a lil bit fatter, sharp, however when you cut with a sword you use your body weight to support the slash, thus the source of the angle actually is the strongest yet slowest, and speed in a Slash is very important.
@insolvancy Swords of that size weren't razor sharp, they were chisel sharp. If you were wearing good gloves you could grab them. That's why you often see people using the guard of a bastard sword as kind of a hammer type thinger.
@kevinguy247 That and usually it was only the sword's foible that was sharpened; the half of the blade towards the hilt. The forte was usually left blunt because 1) cuts delivered that far down the blade wouldn't be terribly useful, and 2) the forte was used for parries and having an edge there would be counter-productive by making the forte easier to damage.
Hello, im doing "Kunst des Fechens", and when i watch this i see wrong done technique on the sword user. The cut is rly strange made not straight forward but hes doing an arc with his hands. Also he has the sword in a rly strange starting position and the blade is too far behind. When someone would run up to me to catch my hands i would step back and cut in one movement.Hes to close when both move and i want to cut his head with tip of my sword i cant do it with my hands ower his head.
One thing is the defender is not just standing there as a target, but rather entering into the attack. If he gets in close enough he gets hit with the attacker's hands or arms. You can do the same thing with a baseball bat or an roundhouse punch.
BECAUSE HE ISN'T.The defender is also closing the gap as fast as possible-the ONLY way to survive in a no run situation.
I would love to be the attacker and see if he could use any of his defences against me.I would not take huge swings and let the weapon cut just enough to injure(not cut in two),a few injuries and then hes dead!!!.
The defences only work because of the arrogance of the swordsman making him take huge cuts and risks
I wasn't commenting on the person defending. I'll just be more blunt, the attackers look incompetent. Who the hell tries to use the bottom of their hilts to attack someone while wielding a long sword? Yes best option is run but if you can't and you know the guy is fail, sure rush in. Like other people here have already mentioned, looks like they just let him have it. Personally I wouldn't rush in on initial swipe - long swords can't just be instantly waved back and forth.
@supazak The problem here isn't the attacker, it's the defender. He isn't advancing nearly far enough, so the swords man is helping (really, hindering) by starting too close. It's a classic training mistake were the attacker makes it easier on the defender by making it unrealistic. It's bad martial arts. Sometimes it's necessary to make it slightly unrealistic for training, but this is going too far. That being said, most of what these guys have done is top notch.
Of course he let him have it, it's a demonstration not sparring. If it was sparring you would probably see this work one time in twenty or less or something. But it's still more than if you do nothing. If you don't even try your chances are zero.
I agree that longswords can't be /instantly/ waved back and forth. But they can be waved damn fast. Just watch:
Looks real stupid please don't teach people to run INTO someone with a long ass sword unless you're sure the opponent is some kind of cross eyed mongoloid with a lack of depth perception.
@supazak What do you think is a better way to do it? Of course if you are unarmed vs armed running is always the best way. But what if you have no way to run? In this case you are more or less screwed. How would someone that don't want to look real stupid counter a man with a longsword?
@supazak : This is based off of a situation where running away isn't an option. EVERYTHING that John Clements teaches comes from actual writing from the masters of various kinds of medieval combat.
@supazak : It's not stupid, it's how you're supposed to attack someone. In fact, the only way they could stop you is if you know how to rush in, and most people didn't. You wouldn't take your time, and let your victim ready himself, you'd charge straight in for the kill; Not stand back and slowly nudge your way toward an unarmed target.
@supazak : It's not stupid, it's how you're supposed to attack someone. In fact, the only way they could stop you is if you know how to rush in, and most people didn't. You wouldn't take your time, and let your victim ready himself, you'd charge straight in for the kill; Not stand back and slowly nudge your way toward an unarmed target.
@supazak You're missing the point that of course it is being pulled slightly since John doesn't have anything to actually stop an accident from happening, but the technique would still work against someone who doesn't think it's going to happen. Again, these are real techniques that were taught in the medieval era, and used.
@KomaruKirinashi, think of using dagger plays. Many of those will work against sword. Although of course the best course of action for an unarmed man against a longsword is to run like hell.
the bow/arrow is included in that too, but yeah that could be a point, they seem to know what they're doing though, but you could always ask them, they seem to be quite active :o
@ksr1219 I think the idea is to close the gap as quick as possible, I think in a realistic (as far as someone attacking you with a full length sword is anyway lol) combat scenario they wouldn't assume you'd rush forward like that.
from the perfect fighting distance the unarmed wont be able to do anything and that's the idea of the weapons, isnt it? Otherwise the mid ages would have been more like a wedding fight than the massacre they were :P
seriously, would you expect an unarmed man to move TOWARDS you if you cut him? If I were cutting someone i would be moving forward. At the point where you would use these techniques, you would most likely already have been BACKING AWAY from he armed man, and he moving towards you.
@dragonking700 when I trained in kali I was taught you were safer close in where the opponent couldn't use the length of his blade against you, we were taught to move in, usually obliquely, depending on the angle of the blade users attack
um no, if the unarmed guy didn't move he would get the blade....even if he moved back, which one swinging a sword might expect. people swinging swords at unarmed people don't usually expect them to move IN.
@ksr1219 From where he was aiming and where the unarmed combatant started out, you can tell that the leading half of his blade was the intended weapon. However, seeing the /start/ of the attack happen, the unarmed was able to take the initiative, closing the distance so that the slower moving, less dangerous part of the weapon becomes the threat, and is able to disarm accordingly.
@ksr1219 at 0:18, John would not have been hit if he'd simply turned his feet and leaned his body away from the blade. He would not have needed to take any steps of his own so long as the swordsman didn't. The range here may be a little closer, but more likely the different angle makes it appear that they are closer together. In either case, the swordsman is very unlikely to hit his opponent without stepping.
@ksr1219 Stepping in place would not move the swordsman closer to his opponent, and so if he couldn't reach the unarmed man before this step, how would he reach him after it? Why is it so common to take these same springing steps when both fighters do have swords? Wouldn't they stay at a further range from each other? The answer to the last one is no, for the same basic reasons that explain why both combatants step into the techniques in this demonstration.
@ksr1219 At the range these fighters are starting, in none of the cases shown would the unarmed man need to even step to avoid the swordsman's strike If the swordsman himself didn't step. The swordsman is out of range unless he steps.
@ksr1219 Also, check out other ARMA videos where John or Aaron demonstrate freeplay or even just basic cuts. They consistently step with their strikes, because they need to, because it is the mechanically proper and advantageous thing to do.
@ksr1219 the swordsman does start at a rather long distance, called "zufechten," which he must step to close in from. The manuals consistently show fighters stepping with their strikes from this range, even with both combatants doing this simultaneously. Striking with weaker section of the blade is still quite powerful with the proper technique, including stepping. The step is necessary from zufechten in order to prevent him getting away, hitting with either strong or weak/tip.
@ksr1219 No, you can't generate the same amount of power without stepping forward. The dimensions of striking don't allow for it, with the possible exception of zwerchau, but even that one I'm not sure on. Basic mechanics would indicate that a springing forward step combined with the torque of upper body movements lends more power to a descending cut from above precisely because the cut utilizes forward motion, and its descent benefits from the potential energy of the body as it reaches ground.
Really? In spite of countless period manuals which describe stepping as part of a cut, and having successfully practiced this against a variety of materials and target types, and seen others do the same having read the same literature, I don't know how to cut?
I assume that by "sword distance" you mean the distance these fighters are starting their demonstrations at. At this distance also traditionally called "zufechten," a simple turn of the feet and body would easily void any attack in which a step wasn't utilized. From here, it would be just as simple to run away until the attacker gives up, or the unarmed man can find something to defend himself with. Also, as stated by others, attacking without a step generally renders one's cut much weaker
@ksr1219 The unarmed man is not likely to be a threat, as it is more likely he was pressed into this situation against his will. If I were unarmed and had the opportunity, I would simply run away from a sword-armed opponent. The idea that unarmed men went around strong-arming swordsmen back in the day doesn't hold much water. Thus, if the unarmed man isn't the aggressor, than it must be the swordsman. And being aggressive means you don't want the opponent to get away => attack as shown.
@ksr1219 he could not easily strike him at that distance, though it looks as though he could. Instead, it would be quite easy for the unarmed person to simply void with a step back. By closing in with a step during his strike, the swordsman is keeping the man in range so that if he steps back, the sword still hits him, and if he steps forward but fails in his own defense, he will still be hit.
@hutnik99 true you just need to hit em with your long blade, but if you swing like a girl it isnt going to do anything; he isnt closing the distance for te most part as he is stepping into it like a baseball players swing. if you watch closely, for the most part the unarmed guy is the one doing most of the closing in.
you will always have advantage when having a sword..... if it would be efective why would they wear swords than :P.... the attackar only needs to avoid to close in.... you need to keep unarmored guy far from you away not move in for grapling.....the fencer needed olny to step behind while cutting not run onto defender...
If the one with the sword only steps back/avoid to close in, then it will be easy for the unarmed person, you just have to walk away. To run into an armed man without a weapon yourself is stupid. But if the armed man is the agressive one you maybe have luck on your side and he strike to wide.
To keep an unarmed man away from you with a sword is easy.
To keep a man armed with a sword away from you if you are unarmed is difficult.
Then unarmed defence against strikes from above don't work. I think that stepping diagonaly forward and then try to control his arms would be a way. But as always, unarmed vs armed, your chances to succeed are very low.
Learning to disarm an opponent when they are not trying to kill you is poor. They should be using wooden swords or structured cushioned swords so the attacker can actually attempt offensive moves to his best ability. The defender would be forced to adapt.
@ksr1219 That's how all of these unarmed techniques work, they don't. You'll see the same crap from aikido but always remember that unarmed vs a trained swordsman, you're pretty much fucked.
I think that some of these technique might be work, other cannot 'cause they're risky. The principle for the one who get attacked is to decrease the distance between to close combat... standing alive : P
theres a huge difference when someone is actually trying to go through compared to stopping right before a hit for a clean disarm step your game up fools
@vega5x5 If you understood elementary physics and had some idea about combat you would know he's putting strength in his attack, otherwise he wouldn't hit the ground so hard.
firstly two fears have to get over in any fight, fear of hitting, as no matter how you try normal persons brain pulling back on power and intention, thugs have lost this trying to take your eyes out and why mad people are so strong , same reason cases of women lifting cars when baby underneath, brain capable but reserves it for stakes are high. Those overcome fears at certain point in fight everything goes slow motion reflexes much sharper.
iif they got a sword need long stick for distance. anything pick up anything thats pointy short, use as force multiplier, will break eye socket sternum first strike. do something crazy throw sand ect put them off rhythm. also remember: caution has a limit which when crossed becomes cowardice, courage has a limit, which when crossed becomes fool-hardiness, imam ali. best warrior ever his battles well recorded in history, always finished first strike but never attacked if lthey were unarmed
lastly thugs win street fights as they are psyched up ready while you are walking down the road. you can also work out how to fight them depending type of person figher given away by cloths they wear ect.Often your utterances and expressions of your face leak out the secrets of your hidden thoughts. imam ali. and remember fear no man their bones will break like yours, and no one has perminat glory and wins all the time.
@Vellyeza It was a demonstration - also, the guy without a sword was stepping in as well, bringing them closer together than the sword-wielder would have initially predicted.
no sorry but if u really know what ur doing u know that this wouldent work in a real fight i know what im talking about i see it in all forms of fixed positioin real combat is fast and aratik with ppower behind every move including simpliy pulling away ur arm or somthingu cant jsut grab someones arm and do what u whant with it they will jerk it back and thrust from side to side to get free of ur hold people dont just stand thier
@mech10813 If you are unarmed and have to fight a man with a longsword (let's say you're catched in a dead end and the man with the sword is really pissed off). You will probably not survive. But these techniques are the thing you can try to do. If you don't try you will die, if you try you will probably die anyway because, like you say, it's not that easy.
These techniques gives you a little tiny chance to survive and that's what you want.
@Joeyal123 - There are similarities between all true martial arts. However, all of what you see in the video is Renaissance Martial Arts (RMA) and not Krav Maga..
Its not Krav Maga. Its Historical European Martial Arts. This was taught to Nobles, Knights, Men at Arms and the like who were professional warriors and soldiers.
@Back7sword - are you kidding! This is John Clements of ARMA, the leading expert on Renaissance Martial Arts (RMA). There is on one in the world who has more credibility on RMA than John Clements!
@Back7sword - Ok, speaking of self-proclaimed experts, who are you and what are your qualifications to judge John Clements? Who do you think should demo Renaissance Martial Arts (RMA) if not John Clements?
Some of their other videos seem more plausible. In this one it seems the armed one is taking an impractically long step with an exagerated swing that seems only to offer his hands in time and spacing to be rushed and jammed by the unarmed man.
@Eruonen I don't really want to troll, but that's just dumb. It's a nice legend, but sadly, the katana was also made of steel. And not even bearing-steel... They were truly masterpieces, sure, but they also had to obey physics. Forget about samurai-gods. They had their own weapons, armor, traditions, just like other nations. For example, they even wore european curiasses, when they could get them.
sadly, the katana wouldn't be even effective against chain mail. i don't even think it can slash through a plate armor. neither it could slice shields.
Well, if a samurai tried to use a katana to slice through a plate armor, he would either be dumb or very unexperienced. Mainly because slicing is most noneffective against such an armor, regardless of the weapon.
actually katana can't slice through chain mail or plate, and if you're gonna say, "butbut, deadliest warriors showed..." you shouldn't believe everything you see on tv, they tested it against re-enactment chainmail, not proper chainmail
there's riveted, butted, or welded mail, butted is the type they tested, and was hardly ever used in medieval europe, because it was too easy to cut/penetrate, the other kinds effectively cannot be pierced by blades or arrows
@IzzyBunneh They can be pierced by arrows, but not by katana's like you said. Arrows have been proven to have been able to pierce all armor that was commonly worn by knights / footmen / samurai, what have you.
Most if it was close (8 yards or so), but with a very nice historically accurate long bow, and an equally strong bowmen with fantastic arrows could indeed pierce every historic armor tested. In the thick of combat? Probably not, but nonetheless arrows CAN pierce chainmail.
i'm actually not sure if even regular medieval arrows could, maybe special kinds that i haven't seen yet, but from the tests i've seen on youtube of non-butted mail, even arrows couldn't pierce them, although they'd leave nasty bruises D8
uh huh, took me a moment to find it, he has a series of videos about all sorts of things, mail included: watch?v=hmHdD_ngUps, you'll find him shooting non-butted mail with arrows in his other videos
i guess arrows might be able to pierce it under certain circumstances? but i find it hard to believe looking at thrand's test of proper medieval mail, that was a modern 120 pound bow, more powerful than anything you would of found in medieval times
@IzzyBunneh "proper chainmail" would have apparently been referred to as simply maille, or ringmail to distinguish it from other types mail. The "chain" was added centuries later.
@IzzyBunneh You are correct. In fact in one episode of deadliest warrior they did try to cut viking style riveted chain mail. But they failed and there was no damage to the flesh.
uh huh, i get the feeling they deliberately used butted in order to support the romanticised version of samurai and katanas. all these people who say, "katanas can cut through anything! it just depends on how well the samurai channel their ki!", those people watch too much anime
i've seen dramatic samurai cut through sheet metal on television after much posturing and meditating, and i've seen someone cut through it with a broadsword with just a regular swing
@IzzyBunneh Yea the Roman one kind of got on my nerves. I'd really like to see a Samurai try to cut through a twisted crown-guard. (Only to have the knight flick his wrist and relieve the samurai of his right shoulder and lung.)
@theevilninjadude you've got a point, most longswords at the time were chisel-edged in terms sharpness at best. This was because soldiers in the middle ages to renaissance period were looking for ways for swords to get past stong quality armors.
@GreatestEnemy32: Why always from different directions from the air. He could atleast do some slash moves(meaning cut from any side either right or left if you didn't catch my point). Indeed, the attacker didn't seem to atleast try to hit John C.
@GreatestEnemy32 In general, the only way to defend unarmed against an armed opponent is if *they* screw up. You basically have to keep ahead of them and never falter, and then you might be able to take them down when they make a mistake. So of course when demonstrating techniques to take down an armed opponent he's got to be intentionally pretty poor.
@VierasMarius It goes without saying that the only successful take downs against an armed opponent are blunders on his behalf. What I meant is that the attacker here doesn't look committed to attack at all. It's as if he is attacking John expecting him to remain motionless and get hit. Now I can understand that is necessary for safe practice, but what gets me is that after the attack he freezes a la WWE while John performs his take down. I can imagine many of those techniques would fail IRL.
@GreatestEnemy32 Hmm, that's true. It would be nice if they demonstrated how the attacker could counter these moves, and how to overcome such counters. There are only a few videos I've seen that go that far.
if I was facing an unarmed opponent who was obviously hoping to catch my sword... I would strike horizontally in a wide arc and try and catch the guy in the midsection. and if he moved into me on the inside or outside of my stroke I would allow the momentum of my swing to spin me around (with added force since I missed) and I would catch him in the back as I spun away from him.
The best way to defend against this kind of scenario is by using rocks. Pelt the #@^er with stones until he dies.
Anyway, of course, if you unarmed against a guy with a sword, you're pretty much screwed. But if your opponents gets cocky or you get to face him in a right place, this is an adequate technique. All better than just watching the blade cleave through your head.
This sure looks like aikido (I started practicing aikido recently., and some of the moves are similar), but I am certain there are western equivalents of martial arts that most people are ignorant to. The eastern martial arts are just so much more accessible today. Its a shame, though, I would be interested in western martial arts, but i never hear of them outside of traditional boxing, wrestling, and fencing.
And to finish this exceedingly long post, I train historical fencing in St. George Fencing School in Belgrade, Serbia, so, yes, i held and used the above mentioned sword.
The catch is, youtube doesn't allow links anymore to be posted, so you should type
the "links" posted above in adress bar after server (youtube) adress. Btw, there are better videos at saintgeorgefencing channel, which is the school I attend.
a. All attacks are favored equally and chosen regardless of situation, of course, while I stated that side attacks are executed in swings by default, unlike all other basic attacks.
b. Longsword, greatsword, flamberge, claymore are held like the following: weaker hand under the guard, stronger lower on the hilt (above the apple or gripping it). That is because sword is held and being directed by the weaker, left arm while the stronger, right performs the swing.
Now, try to imagine holding the sword in the basic stance - relaxed arms, tip pointing to the opponents shoulder or eyes. For example, you desire to apply cut to the forehead in a lounge, similarly to the attacker above. First (upper body) you stretch your hands towards him. Then you push the sword hilt by your right hand so it comes vertically in accordance to the ground. Left arm stays stretched the whole time.
Then you apply the cut by now pulling the hilt up, again only by your right hand until the sword hits or comes parallel to the ground. The best comparison would be the fishing pole, I suppose. Very hard to explain by words.
Anyway, this kind of performing has four benefits:
- speed and precision,
- power,
- the starting and ending positions are the same for every attack so feinting is much easier,
- your sword is always in front of you, so there are no holes in your defense.
Are you saying you do not raise your arms at all? You stay in plug gaurd sortof? If this is so you are not protecting your head if a zorn, zwerch, sheitel, or shiel are thrown to your head or shoulders.
Sorry, I do not know all the fancy expressions, but yes, you raise your arms depending on attack or block types, but the catch is - you do not attack from elbows and shoulders like above but hand-wrists.
The fact is: many modern schools of ancient arts are based on handbooks of usually only one master, rarely two or more. Inside, there are pictures of stances & techs. But. Those are mostly exaggerated pictures of mid-mass-melee combat where fighters are tired or just posh gallants in, a bit, abstract poses. Many literally interpret them, thus make mistakes. I'm not saying the above stance is inaccurate, it is fine, but not appropriate in duels and short fights (less than hour or two).
Because it is a great way to get stabbed, f. e. Especially if you are fighting against spear. Or get hacked on legs. The basic stance is identical to the basic samurai wielding katana stance, tip pointing to the face, neck or chest. I can only try to explain how the fight looks like, but, honestly, it is impossible. Maybe I'll make a vid with some buddy to explain, dunno. Probably not, too lazy. :]
The high guard is perfect for duels and short fights, in fact, it'd designed specifically for such circumstances. The idea is that gravity is on your side, allowing for more powerful strikes which can be launched much more quickly. It's simple to alter the direction of the blade in-transit to slash or stab. Defense is made slightly harder, but not infinitely so.
Again, I'm not saying it's not proper, it is excellent against heavy armor or for hacking limbs. However, there are much better stances to attack from. I would like to demonstrate and explain all pros and cons of above techniques but, sadly, I lack cam and have absolutely no skills in flash programming, so drawing is also not an option. Maybe I could get someone from fencing school to do it. I'll see...
Pretty good, but that's not the way you attack with longsword. It's not chopping/butchering like above it is the leverage system applying circular motion of hands (mostly lower) with rarely any swing other than side attacks. Against an attack like that there is virtually no unarmed defense. Add a cross-guard and the apple (about 1kg) into the equation and the outcome is pretty much clear. ;]
What sources tell you that most attacks are from the side? And what do you mean by lower? upper targets are closer. Where do you train in the martial arts?
Of course a man without a weapon would be in trouble, but if you're fighting in a tight place or against an inexperienced or cocky opponent, this technique can save you. Well, could save you in 15th century.
good point. I've seen this alot, even when very skilled muto dori people demonstrate. I tend to assume that it's just to make the demo look better, since I know they can do it for real, but I always think it does them a diservice.
well I am concerned, that nearly none of shown strikes would hit the unarmed fighter even if he didnt move... at least the high mittelhaus, I am sure they are all made above the head. Oberhaus look so too, but video can deceive.
this kills the technique, no defensive technique can be done precisely, if the attacks arent done so.
@Soulculler That's a valid interpretation. However, upon further reflection, I think it's perhaps more accurate to describe Youtube comments as ANTI reason, as opposed to merely a VOID.
I notice how the man with the sword never swings sideways towards his left, but always overhead, and also is too close to the unarmed man. The advantage of a longsword is length. I'm convinced this show is tilted in the grappler's favor.
IvixHira 1 month ago
@IvixHira He's close enough to hit, notice that the unarmed one always moves in. His arms are kinda shorter than the sword. The video's point is to show the techniques, no need to have the swordsman cut the guy.
JanPospisil42 2 weeks ago
who care wot ya use a spoon wod be faster then basted poke them in the eyes or sum think
41iou 1 month ago
Great video. It might also be good to try it with a weapon that isn't so dangerous, like a wooden sword or one of those padded things that use for the fake melees, because your partner could really try to hit you with it. Obviously the sword is blunted but I think it could still do some damage.
Brandonkerrfl 3 months ago
@Brandonkerrfl
Padded swords behave nothing like the real thing, and as a result royally screw up interpretations and technique. Wooden swords handle less like a sword, but are decent enough. Surprisingly, I find the metal swords actually hurt less than wood.
HipposHateWater 2 months ago
@HipposHateWater Yes they do!
1169Timothy 2 months ago
@1169Timothy
"Yes", to what, exactly?
HipposHateWater 2 months ago
@HipposHateWater Yes to the fact that wooden swords hurt like a bitch!!! lol
1169Timothy 2 months ago
@1169Timothy
Ooooh yeah, lol. Oddly enough, despite supposedly being safer, I've found the synthetic wasters hurt more than wood as well. The pain hits you, a nice sting sets in, and then just lingers for way too long. (like taking a shot to the crotch)
HipposHateWater 2 months ago 2
@HipposHateWater True, what usually gets me is when it hits your hand and goes right to the knuckle. Hurts like you just got hit but for minuets.
1169Timothy 2 months ago
@1169Timothy
I'm still feeling the hit I took to the funny bone about 4 weeks ago. :P
HipposHateWater 2 months ago
wow! impressive!!!
eleazhar 4 months ago
So whats the deal with grabbing a sword by the blade as a defense? Or as an attack for that matter. I'm pretty sure they sharpened those swords back in the day. This isn't a criticism, I'm genuinely curious.
insolvancy 4 months ago
@insolvancy Longswords where heavy and a lil bit fatter, sharp, however when you cut with a sword you use your body weight to support the slash, thus the source of the angle actually is the strongest yet slowest, and speed in a Slash is very important.
blakan3 4 months ago
@insolvancy Swords of that size weren't razor sharp, they were chisel sharp. If you were wearing good gloves you could grab them. That's why you often see people using the guard of a bastard sword as kind of a hammer type thinger.
kevinguy247 4 months ago
@kevinguy247 That and usually it was only the sword's foible that was sharpened; the half of the blade towards the hilt. The forte was usually left blunt because 1) cuts delivered that far down the blade wouldn't be terribly useful, and 2) the forte was used for parries and having an edge there would be counter-productive by making the forte easier to damage.
MGlBlaze 4 months ago
@MGlBlaze : I think you meant "the hlaf of the blade towards the tip"
Halofreakanoid 4 months ago
@Halofreakanoid Yes, I did mean "the half of the blade towards the tip", sorry.
MGlBlaze 4 months ago
@MGlBlaze : It's all good, just making sure lol.
Halofreakanoid 4 months ago
Crap.
Desertkahuna 5 months ago
@Desertkahuna : Considering this comes from actual medieval writings from masters. Nope.
Halofreakanoid 4 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@Desertkahuna : Considering this comes from actual medieval writings from masters. Nope. Chuck Testa.
Halofreakanoid 4 months ago
What I get from this is somebody who is complete ass wipe shit with a sword will lose to somebody with extensive hand to hand combat training.
xxFairestxx 5 months ago
Hello, im doing "Kunst des Fechens", and when i watch this i see wrong done technique on the sword user. The cut is rly strange made not straight forward but hes doing an arc with his hands. Also he has the sword in a rly strange starting position and the blade is too far behind. When someone would run up to me to catch my hands i would step back and cut in one movement.Hes to close when both move and i want to cut his head with tip of my sword i cant do it with my hands ower his head.
kolotiti 5 months ago
No need to attack head with sword this high. Pathetic video, sorry.
Schildschmied 6 months ago
@Schildschmied : People were trained to attack head or body. It doesn't matter where he was attacking, John could close the distance anyway.
Halofreakanoid 4 months ago
Comment removed
Schildschmied 6 months ago
One thing is the defender is not just standing there as a target, but rather entering into the attack. If he gets in close enough he gets hit with the attacker's hands or arms. You can do the same thing with a baseball bat or an roundhouse punch.
AikinutNY 6 months ago
very bad, the guy doesnt know how to cut
cyberkotlik 6 months ago
BECAUSE HE ISN'T.The defender is also closing the gap as fast as possible-the ONLY way to survive in a no run situation.
I would love to be the attacker and see if he could use any of his defences against me.I would not take huge swings and let the weapon cut just enough to injure(not cut in two),a few injuries and then hes dead!!!.
The defences only work because of the arrogance of the swordsman making him take huge cuts and risks
devoidchess 8 months ago
I wasn't commenting on the person defending. I'll just be more blunt, the attackers look incompetent. Who the hell tries to use the bottom of their hilts to attack someone while wielding a long sword? Yes best option is run but if you can't and you know the guy is fail, sure rush in. Like other people here have already mentioned, looks like they just let him have it. Personally I wouldn't rush in on initial swipe - long swords can't just be instantly waved back and forth.
supazak 8 months ago
@supazak The problem here isn't the attacker, it's the defender. He isn't advancing nearly far enough, so the swords man is helping (really, hindering) by starting too close. It's a classic training mistake were the attacker makes it easier on the defender by making it unrealistic. It's bad martial arts. Sometimes it's necessary to make it slightly unrealistic for training, but this is going too far. That being said, most of what these guys have done is top notch.
Altonahk 8 months ago
@supazak
Of course he let him have it, it's a demonstration not sparring. If it was sparring you would probably see this work one time in twenty or less or something. But it's still more than if you do nothing. If you don't even try your chances are zero.
I agree that longswords can't be /instantly/ waved back and forth. But they can be waved damn fast. Just watch:
watch?v=YQhASwoJvjw
watch?v=HvYsjmdac00
gurkfisk89 7 months ago
Looks real stupid please don't teach people to run INTO someone with a long ass sword unless you're sure the opponent is some kind of cross eyed mongoloid with a lack of depth perception.
supazak 8 months ago
@supazak Well, that's better than staying in the measure of his cuts, right?
DiabolusIgnis 8 months ago
@supazak What do you think is a better way to do it? Of course if you are unarmed vs armed running is always the best way. But what if you have no way to run? In this case you are more or less screwed. How would someone that don't want to look real stupid counter a man with a longsword?
gurkfisk89 8 months ago
@supazak : This is based off of a situation where running away isn't an option. EVERYTHING that John Clements teaches comes from actual writing from the masters of various kinds of medieval combat.
Halofreakanoid 4 months ago 2
@Halofreakanoid
Damn can't believe people still writing to me about this lol.
If this IS a situation you can't run away from, chances are both parties know this so rushing in to attack with a sword hilt is STILL stupid.
supazak 4 months ago
@supazak : It's not stupid, it's how you're supposed to attack someone. In fact, the only way they could stop you is if you know how to rush in, and most people didn't. You wouldn't take your time, and let your victim ready himself, you'd charge straight in for the kill; Not stand back and slowly nudge your way toward an unarmed target.
Halofreakanoid 4 months ago
@supazak : It's not stupid, it's how you're supposed to attack someone. In fact, the only way they could stop you is if you know how to rush in, and most people didn't. You wouldn't take your time, and let your victim ready himself, you'd charge straight in for the kill; Not stand back and slowly nudge your way toward an unarmed target.
Halofreakanoid 4 months ago
@Halofreakanoid
You are missing the point. Watch the video and see that the swordsman has no intention of actually hitting the unarmed trainer with the blade.
supazak 4 months ago
@supazak You're missing the point that of course it is being pulled slightly since John doesn't have anything to actually stop an accident from happening, but the technique would still work against someone who doesn't think it's going to happen. Again, these are real techniques that were taught in the medieval era, and used.
Halofreakanoid 4 months ago 6
This has been flagged as spam show
@Halofreakanoid
Damn can't believe people still writing to me about this lol.
If this IS a situation you can't run away from, chances are both parties know this so rushing in to attack with a sword hilt is STILL stupid.
supazak 4 months ago
Hmm... it would seem that he attacker is not using the length of the sword to his advantage.
zomfgiasfc 8 months ago
@ksr1219 I think a lot of that has to do with John C. (unarmed) closing the distance with the swordsman as he begins throwing his cuts.
neosonic66 8 months ago
@ksr1219
Exactly what I was thinking. To do this and not end up as a shish kebab, you have to jump in at the attacker FAST!
TamaThePeck 9 months ago
@ksr1219 Iknorite
Aserox 9 months ago
Where is this technique from? I'm studying Fiore at DEMAS, and would love to learn some of these.
KomaruKirinashi 9 months ago
@KomaruKirinashi, think of using dagger plays. Many of those will work against sword. Although of course the best course of action for an unarmed man against a longsword is to run like hell.
fioredeiliberi 8 months ago
@ksr1219 couse the unarmed person run in his hit he is to fast
IrishAlms 10 months ago
@ksr1219
the bow/arrow is included in that too, but yeah that could be a point, they seem to know what they're doing though, but you could always ask them, they seem to be quite active :o
IzzyBunneh 10 months ago
@ksr1219 I think the idea is to close the gap as quick as possible, I think in a realistic (as far as someone attacking you with a full length sword is anyway lol) combat scenario they wouldn't assume you'd rush forward like that.
cyberslick18 10 months ago
@ksr1219 I have to agree. Defensive tactics are a great idea for when they are this close- just geez- use the length.
epatullo 10 months ago
Hey John, very nice video! I hope you're doing well, it's been a long time
capitanparigi 10 months ago
from the perfect fighting distance the unarmed wont be able to do anything and that's the idea of the weapons, isnt it? Otherwise the mid ages would have been more like a wedding fight than the massacre they were :P
immortaliserwow 11 months ago
@ksr1219
??? you?
dragonking700 1 year ago
@ksr1219
seriously, would you expect an unarmed man to move TOWARDS you if you cut him? If I were cutting someone i would be moving forward. At the point where you would use these techniques, you would most likely already have been BACKING AWAY from he armed man, and he moving towards you.
dragonking700 1 year ago
@dragonking700 when I trained in kali I was taught you were safer close in where the opponent couldn't use the length of his blade against you, we were taught to move in, usually obliquely, depending on the angle of the blade users attack
GarytheAxe 1 year ago
@ksr1219
um no, if the unarmed guy didn't move he would get the blade....even if he moved back, which one swinging a sword might expect. people swinging swords at unarmed people don't usually expect them to move IN.
dragonking700 1 year ago
@ksr1219
no, the unarmed man is MOVING IN that is the whole idea behind weapon defense, you have to be either outside his range or behind it.
dragonking700 1 year ago
@ksr1219 From where he was aiming and where the unarmed combatant started out, you can tell that the leading half of his blade was the intended weapon. However, seeing the /start/ of the attack happen, the unarmed was able to take the initiative, closing the distance so that the slower moving, less dangerous part of the weapon becomes the threat, and is able to disarm accordingly.
MiddleEarthRanger 1 year ago
@ksr1219 no problem ;D
aerik9 1 year ago
@ksr1219 Agreed.
aerik9 1 year ago
@ksr1219 at 0:18, John would not have been hit if he'd simply turned his feet and leaned his body away from the blade. He would not have needed to take any steps of his own so long as the swordsman didn't. The range here may be a little closer, but more likely the different angle makes it appear that they are closer together. In either case, the swordsman is very unlikely to hit his opponent without stepping.
aerik9 1 year ago
@ksr1219 Stepping in place would not move the swordsman closer to his opponent, and so if he couldn't reach the unarmed man before this step, how would he reach him after it? Why is it so common to take these same springing steps when both fighters do have swords? Wouldn't they stay at a further range from each other? The answer to the last one is no, for the same basic reasons that explain why both combatants step into the techniques in this demonstration.
aerik9 1 year ago
@ksr1219 At the range these fighters are starting, in none of the cases shown would the unarmed man need to even step to avoid the swordsman's strike If the swordsman himself didn't step. The swordsman is out of range unless he steps.
aerik9 1 year ago
@ksr1219 Also, check out other ARMA videos where John or Aaron demonstrate freeplay or even just basic cuts. They consistently step with their strikes, because they need to, because it is the mechanically proper and advantageous thing to do.
aerik9 1 year ago
@ksr1219 the swordsman does start at a rather long distance, called "zufechten," which he must step to close in from. The manuals consistently show fighters stepping with their strikes from this range, even with both combatants doing this simultaneously. Striking with weaker section of the blade is still quite powerful with the proper technique, including stepping. The step is necessary from zufechten in order to prevent him getting away, hitting with either strong or weak/tip.
aerik9 1 year ago
@ksr1219 No, you can't generate the same amount of power without stepping forward. The dimensions of striking don't allow for it, with the possible exception of zwerchau, but even that one I'm not sure on. Basic mechanics would indicate that a springing forward step combined with the torque of upper body movements lends more power to a descending cut from above precisely because the cut utilizes forward motion, and its descent benefits from the potential energy of the body as it reaches ground.
aerik9 1 year ago
Really? In spite of countless period manuals which describe stepping as part of a cut, and having successfully practiced this against a variety of materials and target types, and seen others do the same having read the same literature, I don't know how to cut?
aerik9 1 year ago
Comment removed
aerik9 1 year ago
I assume that by "sword distance" you mean the distance these fighters are starting their demonstrations at. At this distance also traditionally called "zufechten," a simple turn of the feet and body would easily void any attack in which a step wasn't utilized. From here, it would be just as simple to run away until the attacker gives up, or the unarmed man can find something to defend himself with. Also, as stated by others, attacking without a step generally renders one's cut much weaker
aerik9 1 year ago
@ksr1219 The unarmed man is not likely to be a threat, as it is more likely he was pressed into this situation against his will. If I were unarmed and had the opportunity, I would simply run away from a sword-armed opponent. The idea that unarmed men went around strong-arming swordsmen back in the day doesn't hold much water. Thus, if the unarmed man isn't the aggressor, than it must be the swordsman. And being aggressive means you don't want the opponent to get away => attack as shown.
aerik9 1 year ago
@ksr1219 he could not easily strike him at that distance, though it looks as though he could. Instead, it would be quite easy for the unarmed person to simply void with a step back. By closing in with a step during his strike, the swordsman is keeping the man in range so that if he steps back, the sword still hits him, and if he steps forward but fails in his own defense, he will still be hit.
aerik9 1 year ago
@ksr1219 they are starting at zufechten, then John moves in to meet the swordsman's attack. They both take the appropriate steps.
aerik9 1 year ago
just one question.
when u have long sword u dont have to deacrease the distance
you just have to put the end of sword in to the target
so wtf atacker is doing that every single time ?
hutnik99 1 year ago
@hutnik99 true you just need to hit em with your long blade, but if you swing like a girl it isnt going to do anything; he isnt closing the distance for te most part as he is stepping into it like a baseball players swing. if you watch closely, for the most part the unarmed guy is the one doing most of the closing in.
jayman448 1 year ago
you will always have advantage when having a sword..... if it would be efective why would they wear swords than :P.... the attackar only needs to avoid to close in.... you need to keep unarmored guy far from you away not move in for grapling.....the fencer needed olny to step behind while cutting not run onto defender...
kolotiti 1 year ago
@kolotiti
If the one with the sword only steps back/avoid to close in, then it will be easy for the unarmed person, you just have to walk away. To run into an armed man without a weapon yourself is stupid. But if the armed man is the agressive one you maybe have luck on your side and he strike to wide.
To keep an unarmed man away from you with a sword is easy.
To keep a man armed with a sword away from you if you are unarmed is difficult.
gurkfisk89 1 year ago
if i ever get attack with a sword in the middle of the street im totaly going to try what he was doing
snoodxxx 1 year ago
What about thrust, master? :D
TheVerinen2 1 year ago
@TheVerinen2
Then unarmed defence against strikes from above don't work. I think that stepping diagonaly forward and then try to control his arms would be a way. But as always, unarmed vs armed, your chances to succeed are very low.
gurkfisk89 1 year ago
this video is stupid, the attacker was clearly swinging way over the range he needed to.
beowulf916 1 year ago
Learning to disarm an opponent when they are not trying to kill you is poor. They should be using wooden swords or structured cushioned swords so the attacker can actually attempt offensive moves to his best ability. The defender would be forced to adapt.
Migs4000 1 year ago
@ksr1219 That's how all of these unarmed techniques work, they don't. You'll see the same crap from aikido but always remember that unarmed vs a trained swordsman, you're pretty much fucked.
ihaterobbie123 1 year ago
@ihaterobbie123 I think the point of this technique is this one ; try to catch the hands before the sword goes down...This means you need to be fast.
lefunz 1 year ago
@ihaterobbie123 Trained unarmed vs. swordsman means swordsman is fucked.
Salisaad 1 year ago
@Salisaad Meh, not really, he still has a 'fuck off' piece of sharp steel in his hands and if he's trained at all will probably win.
ihaterobbie123 1 year ago
I think that some of these technique might be work, other cannot 'cause they're risky. The principle for the one who get attacked is to decrease the distance between to close combat... standing alive : P
bidibum 1 year ago
I like this technics but I would prefer not to face a man with a longsword when I had nothing in my hand
Porfinnr 1 year ago
theres a huge difference when someone is actually trying to go through compared to stopping right before a hit for a clean disarm step your game up fools
vega5x5 1 year ago
@vega5x5 If you understood elementary physics and had some idea about combat you would know he's putting strength in his attack, otherwise he wouldn't hit the ground so hard.
Salisaad 1 year ago
Try that shit with me bitch!
mzambo666 1 year ago
I love this!!!! Could you do a slower demo and show us more of what you are doing and how you are doing it?
sifu17055 1 year ago
The only technique that really works against a longsword is... RUN!
mastermemorex 1 year ago
firstly two fears have to get over in any fight, fear of hitting, as no matter how you try normal persons brain pulling back on power and intention, thugs have lost this trying to take your eyes out and why mad people are so strong , same reason cases of women lifting cars when baby underneath, brain capable but reserves it for stakes are high. Those overcome fears at certain point in fight everything goes slow motion reflexes much sharper.
orangarsalan 1 year ago 2
iif they got a sword need long stick for distance. anything pick up anything thats pointy short, use as force multiplier, will break eye socket sternum first strike. do something crazy throw sand ect put them off rhythm. also remember: caution has a limit which when crossed becomes cowardice, courage has a limit, which when crossed becomes fool-hardiness, imam ali. best warrior ever his battles well recorded in history, always finished first strike but never attacked if lthey were unarmed
orangarsalan 1 year ago 3
lastly thugs win street fights as they are psyched up ready while you are walking down the road. you can also work out how to fight them depending type of person figher given away by cloths they wear ect.Often your utterances and expressions of your face leak out the secrets of your hidden thoughts. imam ali. and remember fear no man their bones will break like yours, and no one has perminat glory and wins all the time.
orangarsalan 1 year ago 6
@orangarsalan assaut testicals and make sure track practice comes in handy
i call that a victory
kaindrg 9 months ago
What happens if he goes for the legs?
DannyDaBaga 1 year ago
This is not that different from stuff taught to students of jujitsu or what is taught in army manuals. Good stuff.
TheKNH86 1 year ago
guy with the swords an ammature, you have long range
he stepped in waay to close
Vellyeza 1 year ago
@Vellyeza It was a demonstration - also, the guy without a sword was stepping in as well, bringing them closer together than the sword-wielder would have initially predicted.
Squeejee09 1 year ago
no sorry but if u really know what ur doing u know that this wouldent work in a real fight i know what im talking about i see it in all forms of fixed positioin real combat is fast and aratik with ppower behind every move including simpliy pulling away ur arm or somthingu cant jsut grab someones arm and do what u whant with it they will jerk it back and thrust from side to side to get free of ur hold people dont just stand thier
theredone09 1 year ago
@theevilninjadude
/watch?v=BzDU1edRawc
Looks sharp to me.
Soulculler 1 year ago
He had a LONG sword
SO why did he bother to go that CLOSE to his opponent ?
mech10813 1 year ago
@mech10813 If you are unarmed and have to fight a man with a longsword (let's say you're catched in a dead end and the man with the sword is really pissed off). You will probably not survive. But these techniques are the thing you can try to do. If you don't try you will die, if you try you will probably die anyway because, like you say, it's not that easy.
These techniques gives you a little tiny chance to survive and that's what you want.
gurkfisk89 1 year ago
You know a good teacher when they can make fun of themselves. Good guy!
CT034 1 year ago
is that a real sword? 0_o
saberwing505 1 year ago
Comment removed
ksym 1 year ago
It looks like he is using krav maga for the Sword Disarms
Joeyal123 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@Joeyal123 - There are similarities between all true martial arts. However, all of what you see in the video is Renaissance Martial Arts (RMA) and not Krav Maga..
ranpleasant 1 year ago 2
Its not Krav Maga. Its Historical European Martial Arts. This was taught to Nobles, Knights, Men at Arms and the like who were professional warriors and soldiers.
ginjaninja1988 1 year ago 3
Im absolutely speechless. This man has no credibility with something like this in his demo videos
Back7sword 1 year ago
@Back7sword - are you kidding! This is John Clements of ARMA, the leading expert on Renaissance Martial Arts (RMA). There is on one in the world who has more credibility on RMA than John Clements!
ranpleasant 1 year ago
Self proclaimed leading expert. More power to him but the above uses no principles at all. The techniques are being made to work.
Back7sword 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@Back7sword - Ok, speaking of self-proclaimed experts, who are you and what are your qualifications to judge John Clements? Who do you think should demo Renaissance Martial Arts (RMA) if not John Clements?
ranpleasant 1 year ago
Some of their other videos seem more plausible. In this one it seems the armed one is taking an impractically long step with an exagerated swing that seems only to offer his hands in time and spacing to be rushed and jammed by the unarmed man.
logipi79 2 years ago 3
@logipi79 - it is a demo, not sparring!
ranpleasant 1 year ago
Fake, measure is wrong for the swordsman. So it's a fudge to make the techniques work.
MartialPolarBear 2 years ago 2
This comment has received too many negative votes show
a katana wuld move much faster and slice strait thru any amor that other dude culd wear
Eruonen 2 years ago
@Eruonen I don't really want to troll, but that's just dumb. It's a nice legend, but sadly, the katana was also made of steel. And not even bearing-steel... They were truly masterpieces, sure, but they also had to obey physics. Forget about samurai-gods. They had their own weapons, armor, traditions, just like other nations. For example, they even wore european curiasses, when they could get them.
Paseecs 2 years ago 11
sadly, the katana wouldn't be even effective against chain mail. i don't even think it can slash through a plate armor. neither it could slice shields.
pcekeep 2 years ago 2
Well, if a samurai tried to use a katana to slice through a plate armor, he would either be dumb or very unexperienced. Mainly because slicing is most noneffective against such an armor, regardless of the weapon.
Folhasful 2 years ago
@Eruonen Okay, Japanophile
TatersChoice 1 year ago
@Eruonen
actually katana can't slice through chain mail or plate, and if you're gonna say, "butbut, deadliest warriors showed..." you shouldn't believe everything you see on tv, they tested it against re-enactment chainmail, not proper chainmail
there's riveted, butted, or welded mail, butted is the type they tested, and was hardly ever used in medieval europe, because it was too easy to cut/penetrate, the other kinds effectively cannot be pierced by blades or arrows
IzzyBunneh 11 months ago 5
@IzzyBunneh They can be pierced by arrows, but not by katana's like you said. Arrows have been proven to have been able to pierce all armor that was commonly worn by knights / footmen / samurai, what have you.
Most if it was close (8 yards or so), but with a very nice historically accurate long bow, and an equally strong bowmen with fantastic arrows could indeed pierce every historic armor tested. In the thick of combat? Probably not, but nonetheless arrows CAN pierce chainmail.
cyberslick18 10 months ago
@cyberslick18
i'm actually not sure if even regular medieval arrows could, maybe special kinds that i haven't seen yet, but from the tests i've seen on youtube of non-butted mail, even arrows couldn't pierce them, although they'd leave nasty bruises D8
IzzyBunneh 10 months ago
@IzzyBunneh Think you could dig up the video? Now I'm curious :)
cyberslick18 10 months ago
@cyberslick18
uh huh, took me a moment to find it, he has a series of videos about all sorts of things, mail included: watch?v=hmHdD_ngUps, you'll find him shooting non-butted mail with arrows in his other videos
IzzyBunneh 10 months ago
@cyberslick18
here's where they test the arrow vs mail, skip to 6mins in: watch?v=mik6Ghy9kYs
IzzyBunneh 10 months ago
@cyberslick18
i guess arrows might be able to pierce it under certain circumstances? but i find it hard to believe looking at thrand's test of proper medieval mail, that was a modern 120 pound bow, more powerful than anything you would of found in medieval times
IzzyBunneh 10 months ago
@IzzyBunneh "proper chainmail" would have apparently been referred to as simply maille, or ringmail to distinguish it from other types mail. The "chain" was added centuries later.
antonsaidmeatloaf 7 months ago
@IzzyBunneh You are correct. In fact in one episode of deadliest warrior they did try to cut viking style riveted chain mail. But they failed and there was no damage to the flesh.
runescapefreak1245 7 months ago
@runescapefreak1245
uh huh, i get the feeling they deliberately used butted in order to support the romanticised version of samurai and katanas. all these people who say, "katanas can cut through anything! it just depends on how well the samurai channel their ki!", those people watch too much anime
i've seen dramatic samurai cut through sheet metal on television after much posturing and meditating, and i've seen someone cut through it with a broadsword with just a regular swing
IzzyBunneh 7 months ago
@IzzyBunneh Yea the Roman one kind of got on my nerves. I'd really like to see a Samurai try to cut through a twisted crown-guard. (Only to have the knight flick his wrist and relieve the samurai of his right shoulder and lung.)
runescapefreak1245 7 months ago
doesn't seem plausible. the long sword is long. the sword guy could reach him without getting so close.
mrkiky 2 years ago
@theevilninjadude you've got a point, most longswords at the time were chisel-edged in terms sharpness at best. This was because soldiers in the middle ages to renaissance period were looking for ways for swords to get past stong quality armors.
oceanberserker 2 years ago
big deal if he did a across body cut there goes both of you're hands.
GladiatorShield 2 years ago
Defence against things other than overhand slices would be nice to see... ;)
tlhonmey 2 years ago
The attacker is doing a pretty poor job of trying to hit John C.
GreatestEnemy32 2 years ago 13
@GreatestEnemy32: Why always from different directions from the air. He could atleast do some slash moves(meaning cut from any side either right or left if you didn't catch my point). Indeed, the attacker didn't seem to atleast try to hit John C.
Khornedevotee 1 year ago
@GreatestEnemy32 In general, the only way to defend unarmed against an armed opponent is if *they* screw up. You basically have to keep ahead of them and never falter, and then you might be able to take them down when they make a mistake. So of course when demonstrating techniques to take down an armed opponent he's got to be intentionally pretty poor.
VierasMarius 1 year ago
@VierasMarius It goes without saying that the only successful take downs against an armed opponent are blunders on his behalf. What I meant is that the attacker here doesn't look committed to attack at all. It's as if he is attacking John expecting him to remain motionless and get hit. Now I can understand that is necessary for safe practice, but what gets me is that after the attack he freezes a la WWE while John performs his take down. I can imagine many of those techniques would fail IRL.
GreatestEnemy32 1 year ago
@GreatestEnemy32 Hmm, that's true. It would be nice if they demonstrated how the attacker could counter these moves, and how to overcome such counters. There are only a few videos I've seen that go that far.
VierasMarius 1 year ago
if I was facing an unarmed opponent who was obviously hoping to catch my sword... I would strike horizontally in a wide arc and try and catch the guy in the midsection. and if he moved into me on the inside or outside of my stroke I would allow the momentum of my swing to spin me around (with added force since I missed) and I would catch him in the back as I spun away from him.
The best way to defend against this kind of scenario is by using rocks. Pelt the #@^er with stones until he dies.
devel155 2 years ago 2
lolwut?
Anyway, of course, if you unarmed against a guy with a sword, you're pretty much screwed. But if your opponents gets cocky or you get to face him in a right place, this is an adequate technique. All better than just watching the blade cleave through your head.
Ranziel1 2 years ago
This sure looks like aikido (I started practicing aikido recently., and some of the moves are similar), but I am certain there are western equivalents of martial arts that most people are ignorant to. The eastern martial arts are just so much more accessible today. Its a shame, though, I would be interested in western martial arts, but i never hear of them outside of traditional boxing, wrestling, and fencing.
D313370r 2 years ago
And to finish this exceedingly long post, I train historical fencing in St. George Fencing School in Belgrade, Serbia, so, yes, i held and used the above mentioned sword.
For the end, here are some useful links:
watch?v=1MHzwR_eP9U
watch?v=Wk1B80JkqIE
watch?v=GK71lqv3qhQ
Apologies to You and jeyerd for excessiveness. :]
thewildchimp 2 years ago
Hey . your links do not work. Or I cant get them to work. It is probably me.LOL Sorry mine is so broke up too.
MacUladh 2 years ago
Eh, sorry, forgot about this completely. :]
The catch is, youtube doesn't allow links anymore to be posted, so you should type
the "links" posted above in adress bar after server (youtube) adress. Btw, there are better videos at saintgeorgefencing channel, which is the school I attend.
thewildchimp 2 years ago
Eh, you got me all wrong.
a. All attacks are favored equally and chosen regardless of situation, of course, while I stated that side attacks are executed in swings by default, unlike all other basic attacks.
b. Longsword, greatsword, flamberge, claymore are held like the following: weaker hand under the guard, stronger lower on the hilt (above the apple or gripping it). That is because sword is held and being directed by the weaker, left arm while the stronger, right performs the swing.
thewildchimp 2 years ago
Now, try to imagine holding the sword in the basic stance - relaxed arms, tip pointing to the opponents shoulder or eyes. For example, you desire to apply cut to the forehead in a lounge, similarly to the attacker above. First (upper body) you stretch your hands towards him. Then you push the sword hilt by your right hand so it comes vertically in accordance to the ground. Left arm stays stretched the whole time.
thewildchimp 2 years ago
Then you apply the cut by now pulling the hilt up, again only by your right hand until the sword hits or comes parallel to the ground. The best comparison would be the fishing pole, I suppose. Very hard to explain by words.
Anyway, this kind of performing has four benefits:
- speed and precision,
- power,
- the starting and ending positions are the same for every attack so feinting is much easier,
- your sword is always in front of you, so there are no holes in your defense.
thewildchimp 2 years ago
Are you saying you do not raise your arms at all? You stay in plug gaurd sortof? If this is so you are not protecting your head if a zorn, zwerch, sheitel, or shiel are thrown to your head or shoulders.
MacUladh 2 years ago
Sorry, I do not know all the fancy expressions, but yes, you raise your arms depending on attack or block types, but the catch is - you do not attack from elbows and shoulders like above but hand-wrists.
thewildchimp 2 years ago
In what source do you use a sword with two hands and put the weaker next to the hilt instead of the stronger right hand if you are right handed?
MacUladh 2 years ago
The fact is: many modern schools of ancient arts are based on handbooks of usually only one master, rarely two or more. Inside, there are pictures of stances & techs. But. Those are mostly exaggerated pictures of mid-mass-melee combat where fighters are tired or just posh gallants in, a bit, abstract poses. Many literally interpret them, thus make mistakes. I'm not saying the above stance is inaccurate, it is fine, but not appropriate in duels and short fights (less than hour or two).
thewildchimp 2 years ago
Because it is a great way to get stabbed, f. e. Especially if you are fighting against spear. Or get hacked on legs. The basic stance is identical to the basic samurai wielding katana stance, tip pointing to the face, neck or chest. I can only try to explain how the fight looks like, but, honestly, it is impossible. Maybe I'll make a vid with some buddy to explain, dunno. Probably not, too lazy. :]
thewildchimp 2 years ago
The high guard is perfect for duels and short fights, in fact, it'd designed specifically for such circumstances. The idea is that gravity is on your side, allowing for more powerful strikes which can be launched much more quickly. It's simple to alter the direction of the blade in-transit to slash or stab. Defense is made slightly harder, but not infinitely so.
Alex231291 2 years ago
Again, I'm not saying it's not proper, it is excellent against heavy armor or for hacking limbs. However, there are much better stances to attack from. I would like to demonstrate and explain all pros and cons of above techniques but, sadly, I lack cam and have absolutely no skills in flash programming, so drawing is also not an option. Maybe I could get someone from fencing school to do it. I'll see...
thewildchimp 2 years ago
Pretty good, but that's not the way you attack with longsword. It's not chopping/butchering like above it is the leverage system applying circular motion of hands (mostly lower) with rarely any swing other than side attacks. Against an attack like that there is virtually no unarmed defense. Add a cross-guard and the apple (about 1kg) into the equation and the outcome is pretty much clear. ;]
thewildchimp 2 years ago
What sources tell you that most attacks are from the side? And what do you mean by lower? upper targets are closer. Where do you train in the martial arts?
MacUladh 2 years ago
also as has been mentioned here several times, latest information tell us, that only the last third of the blade used to be most sharpened.
then, I dont see the point of the attacker getting so close, that if the defender didnt move, he would actually hit him with the first third or so.
you have one big mess in distances, and aiming the strikes.
using propper strikes you would find using these unarmed techniques 10 times more difficult
Punkral 2 years ago 2
Of course a man without a weapon would be in trouble, but if you're fighting in a tight place or against an inexperienced or cocky opponent, this technique can save you. Well, could save you in 15th century.
Ranziel1 2 years ago
good point. I've seen this alot, even when very skilled muto dori people demonstrate. I tend to assume that it's just to make the demo look better, since I know they can do it for real, but I always think it does them a diservice.
seadawg93 2 years ago
Good observation.
thewildchimp 2 years ago
well I am concerned, that nearly none of shown strikes would hit the unarmed fighter even if he didnt move... at least the high mittelhaus, I am sure they are all made above the head. Oberhaus look so too, but video can deceive.
this kills the technique, no defensive technique can be done precisely, if the attacks arent done so.
Punkral 2 years ago 2
Very nice looking techniques.
IshiYamaRyuSeattle 2 years ago
Ugh, the voice of reason strikes again! Gawd bless youtube!
Soulculler 2 years ago
Really? I've found that Youtube is pretty much the mirror image of the voice of reason most of the time. :P
imorriso1 2 years ago
@imorriso1 That being, completely without reason, logic or substance?
Soulculler 1 year ago
@Soulculler That's a valid interpretation. However, upon further reflection, I think it's perhaps more accurate to describe Youtube comments as ANTI reason, as opposed to merely a VOID.
imorriso1 1 year ago