When Jake gets frustrated he......Lays down?

[Chance2Click]

He looks like a very intelligent horse! You should look into Clicker Training.. It's a lot of fun and takes all the confusion/frustration out of the equation for both horse and trainer.

[abigailepetersen]

Ask for more as he gets better but understand that some horses are more athletic than others.He may be only able to hold it for a few steps at first. And most of all: keep him moving forward, get the response, then give him the release from the pressure. Make it so that you both feel good about it. Always stay clam and patient. I know he's not being hurt by the whip here, but it looks like you're confusing him, hence the rear. He thinks go, but you're stopping him in the front. Simplify.

[abigailepetersen]

Try keeping the forward momentum. He is confused by what you are asking and probably frustrated. The best way to have a win-win situation is to make progress, right? So try this: Get along an arena wall or fence line and ask him by sliding back your outside leg (the one on the side of the fence) to move his hips away from the fence. At first your goal should be two-tracking (like a half-way side pass). But most of all, when he takes a few good steps let him walk out straight and praise him.

[xEquineLuverx]

Furthermore, Jake is showing no signs of discomfort. If he was unfomfortable, his ears would be flat against his head. He was not throwing his head nor swishing his tail excessively. He was simply either trying to figure out what she's asking him to do or associating rearing and laying down cues. Please people, learn how to observe horse behavior before saying things that clearly don't make sense.

[xEquineLuverx]

and that's why we must show them that it is much easier and more comfortable to do what we ask then their alternative behavior. This is where the pressure and release method comes in. Horsedontlie is not excessively using force. She is simply showing him that when he tries to avoid her leg cues and lay down, she's going to make it uncomfortable for him.

[xEquineLuverx]

lowering himself to the ground. I think you people need to learn more about horse behavior. Jake is not rearing and buckling his legs because he's in pain or in anger. (Horses, for one thing, most likely don't feel anger. They can certainly can get frustrated, and that may be the case, but not anger) He is most likely doing so because he is either associating some of her cues to laying down or rearing, or he is simply doing them to avoid what she's asking of him. Horses do that people (c)

[xEquineLuverx]

This is sad. Apparently, none of you people understand how horses work, let alone the purpose of a crop for that matter. Horses work off of pressure and release, and that's exactly what Horsesdontlie is doing. She first asks with her heal and then her spur. The crop was used to aid in moving his hindquarters over when they didn't move in sinc with his front. It was used as an extention of her arm, nothing more. And the only time she used more force was when she could feel Jake (c)

[kkbarrelracer]

@horsedontile they DO know what they're talking about, you're the one who doesn't know what they're talking about

[kkbarrelracer]

Not to be mean or anything but PUT THE WHIP DOWN AND USE YOUR LEGS!!!!!

[Horsesdontlie]

@kkbarrelracer - What do you do when you get no response from leg cues? After a horse had been taught a cue (say apply leg while prohibiting forward movement, which gets the sidepass) after a while the horse may choose to test the boundaries on whether they have to do said maneuver. So I escalated to get my point across, first heel, then spur, then crop. I demand respect and response out of my 1200lbs companion. You only saw the crop section of the work out as I didn't want to upload 30 minutes

[Horsesdontlie]

@kkbarrelracer of video. I just uploaded the middle part. My camera stopped before I proved my point to Jake, and he side passed without complaint. By the way, caps lock is considered shouting, so in a way you are being mean, but its alright, I don't mind. ;-)

[horseridermegs]

that horse is starved very badley nd your whiping him nonstop he is getting confused at you nd its driving him crazy thats why he loses his temper stop whiping him tell him he is a good boy nd feed him aswell be nicer he obviousley doesnt like you thats why he wont listen to you. you have to create a good strong relationship with him nd he will do more and you both will enjoy it

[Horsesdontlie]

@horseridermegs - Your comment is deemed unimportant as you do not even know what a healthy horse looks like. 

[IceFireBabeyxxx]

wait, why are u not wearing a helmet?

[Horsesdontlie]

@IceFireBabeyxxx Merely just because I chose not to wear one that day. Typically, unless I'm jumping or the barn requires it I don't wear one.

[MissBBunnies]

people the crop has a wide end on it. makes it sound so loud and violent but its really not. If it was hurting him he would let her know more by then bopping up and laying down. If it was hurting him he would find another way to get her off. There's no doubt that most people (not all of them) who are saying "Fucking stop hitting him!!" probably had their horses trained for them. kudos to you Horsesdontlie! some times they can be a little stubborn :)

[Horsesdontlie]

@MissBBunnies Why thank you. <3

[BSHarleySJ]

You shouldn't be bloody hitting him! Giving him mixed messages!

[horsesofcourses1]

I can't say I blame the horse. No matter what he does, you hit him. He tries to do what he thinks is right, but you hit him. So then he just gave up to make you stop hitting him. You don't use crops in the first place to get a sidepass. You use your leg. And why were you staring at your shadow? That's why you were caught off guard when he layed down.

[Horsesdontlie]

@horsesofcourses1 - Dressage riders use crops to reach behind and motivate the horse to move it's back end. Thats all I was asking him to do was to move his hindquarters over while he sidestepped. I started out very light tapping, and he threw a temper tantrum so I increased the tempo until he did what was asked, which was to move away from pressure. I was using leg, he was ignoring it. I was looking back to watch for the slightest movement of him move his hindquarters like I was asking.

[Horsesdontlie]

@Horsesdontlie (c) Plus I'm pretty positive everyone would have been surprised by how fast he dropped.

I have a horse that sidepasses very well. So what ever I did worked in the end.

[drawerfunfun]

The horse obviously HATES YOU AND THE HITTING YOURE GIVING HIM!!!!!! Fucking stop hitting him!! Notice how he rears up every time you hit him?!?! Oh, and also, you have no idea what NYC carriage horses have to go thru all the time!!! don't pretend you know anything about horses in NYC!!!

[Horsesdontlie]

@drawerfunfun My horse hates me so much that he nickers every time I drive into the stables. He hates me so much that he walks away from his horse friends to hang out with me when turned out. He hates me so much that he lays down with me and we nap together. Yup my horse hates me.

I hit my horse because its fun, not because I don't want my horse to learn to throw temper tantrums when I politely ask him to move his hindquarters over.

Have a wonderful day! =D

[Mewlie]

I can just hear him: "B-b-but! Moooooooom! I dun wanna. D:"

[whitneybug101]

instead of using a crop you a lung whip it reaches farther and you wont have to turn so far in the saddle i have been riding for 18 years and i have my trainers lisance and i wanted to tell you how good of a job you did.. but instead of using a short crop a lung whip or dressage whip works much better and if he wont keep his head down use a chin strap until he does.. its not abuse its not toruture just some horses are stubbern.. i had the same issue with my horse and now he does it with no issue

[Horsesdontlie]

@whitneybug101 - I agree. At the time I didn't have anything longer than a jumping bat. So I just grabbed what I could. Unsure of what you mean by a chin strap, he already has a curb chain on his bridle. He was putting his head up because of the frustration, so I choose what battle I wanted to fight (side stepping) and let him figure out his head. That issue has been worked out and now he does great.

[McFamouse]

Somtimes when a horse gets frustrated its a good idea to stop what your trying to accomplice with him and try again tomorrow. it's never a good idea to keep trying and trying when he just gets more frustrated :)

[Horsesdontlie]

@McFamouse thank you for the advice, but that is not how I work with my horse or train. I don't ever stop when my horse is throwing a temper tantrum. When he knows the cue already, he doesn't get a release of pressure until he does it. Otherwise I reward him for bad behavior. If I was training him to side pass, now I wouldn't have approached the problem this way at all. I would have avoided the fight.

[McFamouse]

@Horsesdontlie Well if hes throwing a tantrum, then i agree i dont stop till i win too.

[Horsesdontlie]

@McFamouse Yeah, lol I was asking him to not leave his rear behind when he stopped sidestepping all together. At this point in the video I just wanted him to sidestep anyway he could, just get him past this, before i stopped for the day.

[Ghorseyluver]

HAHAHHAH drama queen!! that is hilarious. people get over yourself this is a funny video. lol this is good

[leeshdiddy22]

That is one smart horse! Good on you, it looks like he was beginning to take some nice steps at the end:)

[Horsesdontlie]

@leeshdiddy22 Thank you. He figured out eventually how much energy he was spending to fight and stopped all together.

[TheKathrynProduction]

I don't know why people think you're abusing him .. obviously you're training him , (I think he's younger ?) And they think that the whip is a torture device . Parents spank their kids harder than you're hitting him with that whip ! Its like , why bother uploading anything REAL up if people can't read the description and be nice ?!

Anyways , I know when I was teaching my horse to side pass she just wanted to run and reared on me constantly ! But I have never heard of laying down d: Too funny !

[Horsesdontlie]

@TheKathrynProduction He's actually 19 in this clip. ;-) I was trying to work on his keep his head down for the side pass. He didn't like that idea and was showing me how much he didn't like it by refusing to side pass at all.

I always try to keep things real. Jake is a hard horse to ride and I'm not the best rider, I'm not trying to hide anything here. =)

[WondersCreated]

I love how people think it's abuse. Ha. Wow. I'm critical enough in the way of how people treat their horses but thinking this is abuse? HA

[Horsesdontlie]

@WondersCreated ;-) Yup I was abusing that poor starved beast. 

[Annandhorses]

What breed of horse is Jake? He is beautiful...even though he was being a butt.

[Horsesdontlie]

@Annandhorses Aw, thank you. Jake is a Grade Paint (Mutt) lol. He doesn't have the conformation of any specific breed. Probably just bred for the spots. =)

[Liiively]

OMG poor horse!!!

[zoeyiris]

i actually think this is funny... not the fact that he rears and what not, but the fact that that's his way of saying "i'm frustrated mom...!!!" good job on your part for keeping your cool. sometimes with my mare, all i can do is just end on a good note and walk away when she rears or acts a fool.

[ipokesquirrels]

Hahaha!!! Beautiful horse he is, and obviously full of character! I know people say teaching your horse to do things can cause problems. . . But they can learn it for themselves. My boy is a rearer, and he was never taught to.

Riding is a risk sport, so as long as we are working as a team with our boys and girls, why not take the risk?!

x x x

[dressurlady32]

I would leave out the whip for the beginning!

And ride him a little more consistent with the spurs!

Take the reins a bit more.

[Horsesdontlie]

@dressurlady32 I did. I didn't start filming until after 10 minutes of this. I had gotten off to grab the whip and the camera cause I thought it was funny, and would videotape working through it. I stopped it because I didn't want the full 20 minutes of me going back and forth until he got it right. With the reins he was already frustrated, why get in his face with the bit when he wasn't moving forward? I would have preferred the forward movement over laying down and rearing.

[Fox32233]

im sorry but y r u hitting him that hard?! im sorry but i know its training but iv trained my horse and he is amazing but when a horse doesnt get it u cant get mad or frustrated and keep asking u have to give him a chance to think about what ur asking of him dont just keep asking on (and yes i am a big Clinton Anderson fan and i go by his methods)

[Horsesdontlie]

@Fox32233 It wasn't exactly training. In training I would not be as hard on him. This was a huge temper tantrum. He knows how to sidepass, move his front and fore. But this day he was excited and didn't WANT to do it. Its a difference between him not knowing and not wanting to do it. Trust me I was not hitting because I was mad. I can't believe people can't tell the difference. The whip is a tool to reach behind where the hand cannot. The whipewas asking him to move his hind lateral.

[Horsesdontlie]

@Fox32233 It wasn't exactly training. In training I would not be as hard on him. This was a huge temper tantrum. He knows how to sidepass, move his front and fore. But this day he was excited and didn't WANT to do it. Its a difference between him not knowing and not wanting to do it. Trust me I was not hitting because I was mad. I can't believe people can't tell the difference. The whip is a tool to reach behind where the hand cannot. The whipe was asking him to move his hind lateral.

[Horsesdontlie]

@Fox32233 (c) Out of all the clinitians Clinton anderson is my favorite because he believes in applying the amount of pressure needed to get the desired response. This video was taken 1/2 way through me working with him on this. I wasn't going to upload the whole 20 minutes of it. I started out with a quiet cue and increased the tempo and intensity until I got what I was wanting. I never hit him that hard in this video. Its a crop its supposed to make a lot of noise.

[Kelliee1]

Haha! I love how dramatic he was when he layed down! You just looking at him and him being like "Yes?" was so funny :P

[purpleymarshmellow]

You need to get some foreward movement back in him... He's getting frustrated and just trying to do the right thing. You should allow him to move out in all gaits doing circles and straight lines for a while then try again..

[Horsesdontlie]

@purpleymarshmellow I would suggest that too if I saw this, but that wasn't the issue. For this particular horse If I had moved him out and then asked again he still would have done all of this. It was a faze that he was going through, he was frustrated and was trying everything but sidepassing to figure out what I wanted. If you look at the video responce he is doing fine with his sidepass with the way I worked with him.

[Horsesdontlie]

@purpleymarshmellow I would suggest that too if I saw this, but that wasn't the issue. For this particular horse If I had moved him out and then asked again he still would have done all of this. It was a faze that he was going through, he was frustrated and was trying everything but sidepassing to figure out what I wanted. If you look at the video response he is doing fine with his sidepass with the way I worked with him.

[quarterperch]

omg that was adorable !!

[XxHeelsDownxX]

LOL just fuckin drops

[rivera1142]

I wld lay down too.... love how when the horse actually side stepped she immediately went on to ask more and on to the other direction. Some horses need that thought process not just a pet on the neck and good boy!

[Horsesdontlie]

@rivera1142 - I can't tell if you are being sarcastic or not. I actually did stop and pat his neck and tell him good boy several times. 0:18, 0:57, 3:12 and at 2:39 he was aloud to walk off and a release of pressure as a reward. If you look at the video response he is doing great with his sidepassing.

[HasToRhyme]

As you said, I real drama queen, it almost looked like she was playing dead, good on you for getting back on and insisting on getting her do do the excersize correctly ^^

[Horsesdontlie]

@HasToRhyme Sometimes it takes longer to get him up too. xP

Thank you.

[sugarismyhorse]

haha what a silly boy! :) well done

[MissRainRider]

I've got the same problem with my shetland :D.

I wanted to teach him to rear. But I had to surrender, he just does this when there are children on his back :D. So I tought him to lay down ... But what I've got now:

Shetty doesn't want to move forward. Shetty wants to lay down to gain some apples. :D

WTF :D

[Horsesdontlie]

@MissRainRider Haha teaching the lay down creates just as much of a problem as rearing does......its just not as dangerous! Lol

[horserider9802]

hah ur a great rider! i dont want you to get hurt can u use a helmet?

[Horsesdontlie]

@horserider9802 Thank you for the comment and the concern, but no I will not use a helmet. I do use it when I feel the need to (Which the term 'need to' is relative to each person). Which varies from case to case.

[horserider9802]

@Horsesdontlie thanks! love ur channel and all of your vids! could you look at mine? it would mean a lot!

[heinzstoffregen]

By the way, Caiti´s explanations are good - she tells us what she thinks about training and how to achieve results

When commenting her videos, I feel, that when things go well, she should be reminded what she gets from riding Jake

And when she is frustrated, she should be reminded that there is never only one side to a coin: You cannot have a sensationally well performing horse without certain disadvantages

And, Caiti, whenever Jake does not cooperate, it is not your fault!

Just take it!

[Horsesdontlie]

@heinzstoffregen Thank you for supporting me on this. =D But I don't agree with the last comment. 75% of the time when he is not cooperating is my fault one way or another. But this was not one of those times.

[heinzstoffregen]

And Jake is a sensational horse: Like no other horse on Youtube videos, he is genius as well as lunatic, angel and devil in one.

When cooperating, Jake will make feel Caiti as in heaven - no happier moments than riding him! His potential is huge, and if challenged he will perform sensationally. What a wonderful horse.

But within a moment he can give hell to Caiti, making all her training worthless. Being completely unwilling, he frustrates Caiti, who might be inclined to give up

[Horsesdontlie]

@heinzstoffregen He likes to switch between the two of those pretty often. xP

[heinzstoffregen]

Hey guys, with your lengthy commenting and discussion you miss the main points:

Caiti is an excellent rider and trainer, she successfully rides English and Western style, show jumping in very good position as well as fast barrel races. She is perfect in bareback riding and tricks, making Jake rear and fall down. What a sensational rider - she definitvely is my favorite rider on youtube.

And she definitively needs no advice in how to handle her horse.

And extraordinary is she is, is also Jake.

[RareHonesty]

I dig the crazy markings on his legs. :P

[Groomer07]

i hope you dont mind but i would like to give you some pointers. go back to the ground and teach him to do in there. once he has that down then ask him for the side pass. you cant teach a horse (very easily to side pass if they dont know how to move their fronts and hinds) when he goes to the ground make the ground the not so nice place to be and that will take care of him going to the ground. he isnt stuborn he just doesnt understand what you want completely. clear up what you are asking ^_^

[Horsesdontlie]

@Groomer07 I'll have to post a video up, Jake does know how to side step already. He can move his front and back separately or together on the ground going both ways. So ground work isn't going to do much. Just an off day where he didn't feel like working on it.

[PotterYouRotter7]

oh my god what a goof xD one time i was on my way to my lesson stable and my trainer and a friend were riding along the dirt path and her friends horse went off the road into the tall grass and weeds, and when she tried to get her out, she just layed down right there xD it was so funny. her owner was just like "oh for petes sake!" it was funny.

[Horsesdontlie]

@PotterYouRotter7 Yeah sounds like something Jake would do. xP

[xEquineLuverx]

OMG. This has made me laugh so incredibly hard. He looks like he could be one of those horses in old western movies. XD Seriously.

It's really hard for me to tell when u are asking him to move over. How exactly are u asking him to do it?

Haha. I have one of those crops. It's loud, but not abusive.

[Horsesdontlie]

I'm glad it was cause for entertainment. xD Well I'm just asking him to side step by putting one spur into his side. I just roll it into him, thats the basic cue. But I've been trying to get him to flex towards the way we are going, so I have more contact on that rein and the crop is to motivate him to move his butt, since he normally just drags it after him....or refuses to move at all.

[xEquineLuverx]

@Horsesdontlie

Have you ever just worked on moving his hindquarters instead of the whole side passing? That was the first thing I did with Race before I taught him to side pass. He was very dull before I worked on moving him on the haunches. I had to place my heel on him pretty far back before I got any kind of result. I also did a lot of pivioting and counter bending before I worked on side passing. It helps a lot.

[Horsesdontlie]

@xEquineLuverx Yup, I work on moving him every way. Moving his hind quarters, his front, bending in bending out.....and combinations of the above. So this was merely just a temper tantrum, he knew what was being asked of him. I should put a recent one up, he's doing it quiet well.

[caseybay5]

try not using the crop so sharply on him. just tap his shoulder or his flank. maybe try more simpler moves instead of side stepping.

[Horsesdontlie]

I'm not using it sharply. Its a jumping bat, it makes a lot of noise. He does not respond to light tapping. If he has trouble moving his butt when I ask him to, tapping him on the shoulder isn't going to help. He needs to understand that he needs to initiate his hind quarters and keep his center of balance. If I stopped he would learn that evading would work out in the long run. He knows how to sidestep already, just not wanting to initiate his hind. Thank you for the suggestion though.

[ilovelandaulet]

This is so entertaining, Jake is definitely one of a kind ;)

[Horsesdontlie]

@ilovelandaulet Yeah, he sure is. xP

[HondaThoru]

I dont think the laying down problem is to farfetched at all it makes sense even horses that dint learn it as tricks use it at times its a bit more passive aggresive sometimes isnt it but very very effective.

[Horsesdontlie]

@HondaThoru Exactly, thats how I see it.

[saddlebredhorsegirl]

r u trying to get him down like that? he would be a great trick horse for movies,i think.

[Horsesdontlie]

@saddlebredhorsegirl No, I was trying to get him to side step. He does lay down on command both from the ground and in the saddle.

Thank you, I wish he could be in the movies.

[TxRopinCowgirl]

Haha that cracks me up but at the same time I know how frustrating that is...

My black and white mare used to do the exact same thing when I was teaching her to move off of my legs. I took her back to the round pen, got off of her, and worked her on giving to pressure and moving laterally. Once she re-mastered those, I got back on her and it helped out quite a bit.

[Horsesdontlie]

@TxRopinCowgirl I was laughing the first time he did it...but that wore off after his 4-5 time laying down on me. Right before I turned on the camera I wasn't fast enough on my feet and he actually landed on my leg. >.> Actually he knows his lateral work very well, but only when he is bending the wrong way. I'm trying to keep his head straight while doing it and he got a little pissy. He had been doing fine for a while, I started working on this weeks ago....he didn't want to do it today.

[TxRopinCowgirl]

@Horsesdontlie Ahh yeah... Dontcha just LOVE it when they decide to be tempermental? Guess he didn't get his wheaties that morning, eh? xD

[Mausiiiable]

haha that was really funny :D but I was just wondering why you hit him so hard (well idk if it was hard but it sounded like it hurted) that`s no critique, it`s just a question :D

[Horsesdontlie]

@Mausiiiable Most of the time I was just tapping with it. Its one of the crops that has a wide leather end, so it makes a lot more noise more so than it hurts. I have been hit with it (by friends) a few times and know how it feels. The only times I hit him hard is when he was about to lay down (If you watch in the video his back legs will start to buckle). Because its the only way to get forward momentum to get him up. I don't mind the question. =)

[FlyinChanges]

haha wow. such a drama queen. he is gorgeous though.

[Horsesdontlie]

@FlyinChanges Hehe Thanks. 

[TheHorseySophie]

Haaahaha, he's a real drama queen xDD

[Horsesdontlie]

@TheHorseySophie Sure is ^-^

[CrazyForLucky]

his markings are sooo pretty and that was sooo funny. he did go down soo fast :)

just curious how did you teach him to lay down?

[Horsesdontlie]

@CrazyForLucky Thank you, I love his markings too. xD