A link to this video was sent to me. As a hospital administrator, I am appalled by videos like these that float around the internet. They are highly offensive and unprofessional. I am amused by the high-school style postings. I will admit though, having 21 years experience, meganurse is right.
Videos like this are a riot! Puts CRNA's and even more so, the nurses in their place. Nurses are so fond of knocking the MDds, all the while (too scary) not realizing what they (the nurses) DON'T know. I love it.
Videos like these are horrible. They make all doctors and nurses look bad. The whole point of going into medicine is to ease the pain of someone else and maybe increase their level of health. I hope I never encounter doctors and nurses like these. I would never trust a doctor or nurse that speaks that this or has a large ego. Cursing is unprofessional as well.
lol...residents are MDs ya douche...stop trying to deny your title murse
The only facts youve proven is that you enjoy slamming on your keyboard in response to any criticism of nurses and really really really want to reduce the standards of anesthesia providers.
The bitter reality remains, that the pond is rapidly shrinking. When it does, it's harder to feed the big expensive fish- especially when science and resultantly in a few cases, legislation do not indicate those fish are a necessity.
Tell you what, Mega nurse (by the way, I love how you call yourself “anesthetist”....it kinda sounds like anesthesiologist!)...
Once hospitals like Mass General and Mayo Clinic and other major hospitals start having their anesthesia departments run by nurses like you, then maybe I’ll say that you’re not full of shit.
@akmd114379 what's a CRNA committee? You know very little about the politics of anesthesia practice. You don't even know the names of our Organizations. The "president" works there because your predecessors succeeded at monopolizing the anesthesia market in that area. It's interesting when stating the facts which are so contrary to common belief become "oozing" overcompensations.
"supervise your dumb ass" that's a trip. Dr Superasshole. "shithole hospitals" what a naive fukn loser you are! I guess any hospital that's outside city limits is a "shithole" you Need to see a shrink to resolve some of those issues. Stick to the facts. One huge fact- I'm your worst whistle blowing, truth- telling, fraud exposing nightmare.
Ahhhhh now the cockroaches start to scatter. My title was RN before I became CRNA. Just like your titles were "resident" before you became attendings. I'm hardly insecure. I'm as strong and confident, competent and refined a practitioner of anesthesia as you will find- which is why I refuse to engage in nerdy clinical debates and harsh criticism. Just FACTS!
Sorry... Correction to previous post. 40 states DO NOT require supervision of CRNA's by any health professional or entity. NO states require supervision by anesthesiologists.
Find one major hospital center, one academic hospital where CRNAs aren't supervised by anesthesiologists.
You seem to think that someone out there is thinking "yeah, CRNAs are great. They're just as good".
The reason states opted-out is because there are shit-holes out in the middle of nowhere where anesthesiologists won't go. The powers that be have simply determined that CRNAs are better than nothing. That's all.
Who's next to pollute my email and then get slammed with straight facts? Who's next to continue to misconstrue what is required by Medicare to get paid, and what is actually in accordance with public policy state-by-state? Even more disconcerting is the amount of CRNA's that know neither their history nor the laws which govern their practice.
@akmd114379 contrarily sir I know EXACTLY what I speak of. 40 states require supervision of CRNA's by physicians. No state requires supervision by you. We are always independently responsible and liable for the anesthetics we deliver and are recognized in state law in all 50 states. surgeons are never automatically liable for the actions of CRNA's. In contrast, surgeons are not immune from liability when working with MDA's.
@Megaanesthetist first off i mentioned that all states require supervision by an MD I did not specifically mention an MDA ... second more than 90 % of the research that u read about in textbooks are done by MDs. ... nurses only carry out orders that MDs provide to them one way or another ... theres no getting around it i dont care how hard the cRNA PAC fights about it ... fact is all major hospitals in most states require presence of an anesthesiologist in a supervising role
@Megaanesthetist in fact the president of the cRNA committee currently works in a hospital where his room is supervised by an MDA ... so my final take on this since i normally dont argue with people behind a screen is u guys are fighting a losing battle if u think independently practicing nurses will be a norm
@James02091983 are you kidding? First of all I'm not an RN. I will not engage in a nerdy debate regarding clinical scenarios. I can tell by your reply that you have little experience. 1983- I bet that's your birth date. I will say that if you are calling for a TEE for hypotension immediately after trocar insertion your chasing zebras. Was that your answer on your oral boards?
I don't believe I have read a single complaint by a CRNA about their salary. Not complaining about that. Tell me Saltfly, How much of a mastery level biochemist do I have to be to deliver competent anesthesia care. That argument is so weak and an insult to biochemists. Tell me are you actually manufacturing the drugs and creating new compounds as you watch the CRNA's administer them?
@Megaanesthetist Let me give you a scenario where you would end up over your head. lets say the surgeon just put laparoscopic trocars in place and the pt's pressure suddenly begins to drop. anesthesia performs an emergent TEE and discovers bubbles in the RA/RV, flowing through a PFO into the LA/LV. Would you have known to do an emergent TEE, have you ever even done one or how to read one? Do you know what a PFO is? Do you know where the air bubbles are coming from? Thats why MD>RN
if youre independent and your salary is a 1/3 of an anesthesiologist shine your green eyes of envy at the hospital taking whats "owed" to you. You bill the same for the same procedures.
Angel and skbu....Maintenance of Certification in Anesthesiology...or google MOCA anesthesia. Where the hell do you work that none of your docs have heard of this?
I am an anesthesiologist who supervises CRNAs every day. Just like anesthesiologists, some are highly skilled and others are not. Some certainly have the intellectual capacity to equal physicians, but they simply do not have the knowledge required. They don't understand anatomy, physiology, pharmacology, biochemistry, etc. at the same level because the education is not the same. They also don't seem to have the same work ethic, although many of the younger doctors don't seem to have it either.
I train anesthesiology residents (and unfortunately, we have a CRNA program as well), and I can tell you that there is NO COMPARISON between anesthesiology residents and CRNA students in terms of knowledge and ability to understand the medicine behind anesthesia. They are worlds apart. The ONLY thing where they are comparable is with intubation - which is a very specific skill you can take a bum off the street and train to perform.
@chimpkind my bloated salary? It takes 3 of me to make as much as 1 of you! Anesthesiologists are billing experts. You know exactly my fee schedule and rate of reimbursement. The difference is that I actually deliver the anesthetics. For that I can look at myself in the mirror. Anesleeziologists. I like that.
Megamurse...how many seven and sevens deep were you when you made that post? Also, how much do you bill for your independent cases in comparison to what an anesthesiologist bills? A simple thank you for negotiating your bloated salary would be enough.
And in regards to respecting nurses, I do respect them. It doesnt change the fact that the only studies Ive seen by you guys involves your desperate attempts to show how your nursing degree equals a medical degree.
Megamurse...how many seven and sevens deep were you when you made that post? Also, how much do you bill for your independent cases in comparison to what an anesthesiologist bills? A simple thank you for negotiating your bloated salary would be enough.
And in regards to respecting nurses, I do respect them. It doesnt change the fact that the only studies Ive seen by you guys involves your desperate attempts to show how your nursing degree equals a medical degree.
Just because they are rude to us, we don't have to go down to their level. As CRNAs, we can do better than those MDAs; besides we are close to ruling the market so who cares what they say :)
@MrChampkind Ahhhhh now out come the daggers. Thought you "actually respect" CRNA's. Perhaps all states will opt out and finally rid the healthcare system of its fraudulent, Medicare-bilking leaches called anesthesiologists. ANESTHESIOlOGiST What a stupid name to define the weakest and least respected doctors. Big fucking losersFuck you all!! Go count your money that CRNA's earned for you. Everyone hates you.
@Megaanesthetist Really? I thought the general surgeon was the most hated. I'm quite partial to the anesthesiologists really, especially seeing as I know a number of very respectable people who happen to hold that occupation. For future enjoyment, though, you may refer to them as "anesleeziologists", as I've once heard it put before. you could get a few laughs out of that one.
I have a great deal more respect for the MD's that were doing this before; Glidescopes, ultrasounds, ETCO2 detectors, O2 Sat monitors, BIS monitors, Nerve stimulating cath's, FloTrac's.
The technology has made most of your job fail safe (99/100 times) and you know it.
Given that you use mostly the same drugs/ protocols in the warmth of a OR suite, try doing what you do in the back of an Airstar with night vision, or upside down in a ditch when it's 0C out. Just sayin....
maybe states will soon opt out on crnas and allow anesthesia techs to provide unsupervised anesthesia 99/100 times.
look up MOCA if you want to know how we maintain certification...a can do attitude and a masters degree does not transform an RN into the equivalent of an MD.
MDs current contributions to the field: open more fellowships, pump out studies furthering the field of Anesthesiology
Nurses contribution to the field: open more crna mills, pump out more studies claiming equality
DrSuperSixSeven: You're a prick. I'm just a lowly Anesthesia Tech with a Bachelors and Paramedic degree, and you know as well as I that a monkey can do your job 99/100 times. You went to medical school. Great. Don't be a ass-hat.
The best model of practice is MDAs and CRNAs working in collaboration. Now hush and don't argue on who is better. Just go to work and take of the patients the best way you can. Money is everywhere no need to fear that it will be scant. Set your emotions aside and use your mind. Work together not against one another. Only all of us will lose if we do so!
This video and most of the discussion is inappropriate. It should be taken down. It is an embarrassment to both Nurse Anesthetists and Anesthesiologists. It is counterproductive and frankly disappointing. We should hold ourselves to a higher standard. The people we care for put their lives in our hands and this type of activity destroys trust and strains fragile creditability.
In regards to academic competitiveness, MD's win hands down every time. Contrary to popular belief, anesthesiology is one of the more competitive residencies to get into, in fact, it is more competitive to get into than general surgery. The certification process is far more rigorous to become an MD anesthesiologist than a CRNA. MDs have to pass Step 1, 2, 3, all of their AKTs, and pass their oral and written boards every ten years. If a newly minted CRNA can pass our board exams well talk.
@MrChampkind7 Every 10 yrs? Wow who test them? Is there something similar for CRNAs? Why would some surgeons wanna hire CRNAs only and have been working with them exclusively for yrs if CRNAs are not as good as MDAs? These are not questions to put anyone on the spot. I am very curious; I am the "why" girl.
BTW, I didn't apply to CRNA school until I had 3+ yrs of intense ICU experience. Many of my classmates did the same.
Surgeons (e.g. plastic surgeons, usually) hire CRNAs because they are dealing generally with the healthiest patients (sick patients don’t have elective cosmetic surgeries under anesthesia), and because CRNAs work cheap.
And as for your “intense ICU experience”, spare me that bullshit, will you? Are you forgetting that I’ve spent a lot of time training in the ICU and I know exactly what you nurses do there? There’s nothing “intense” about your experience.
@DrSuperSixSeven ok you are right. That was a plastic surgeon that hires only crnas. But what about the hospitals that hires CRNAs for their ORs! these pt's are not well so again how come. I appreciate the education.
False. Of the five nurses I know going to CRNA school this year, three have less than two years experience. It is not "harder" to get into CRNA school than medical school because there are more applicants. Its simply a statistic showing how the vast majority of new ICU nurses are attempting to streamline their way into CRNA school. I guarantee the average GPA of a medical school matriculant is higher than the average nursing school matriculant.
Let’s look back a little further in anesthesiologists’ and CRNAs’ respective academic timelines, all the way back to high school, and I have no doubt you’ll find that anesthesiologists were better high school students, had higher SAT scores, went to more competitive universities, and probably achieved higher GPAs at those more competitive universities.
I can also assure you that no one these days is going to CRNA school without at least 3-4 yrs of ICU experience. They just won't fly - they will weed them out in the interview process where there are at least 10 people shooting different clinical questions at the applicant and the applicant must know their shit or they won't be selected. It's actually harder to get to CRNA school vs Medical school. For each spot there are 100 applicant. MD school for each spot there are 30 applicants.
You can fool the layperson, but you can’t fool me or anyone else who knows better. Your ICU experience is not a form of training. There is nothing to standardize your experiences or guarantee that you’ve encountered X number of patients or pathologies the way medical school and residency guarantees these things. Furthermore, formal teaching is not a major component of your “ICU experience” either, if you get any at all. They hire ICU nurses to work, not to learn.
Like any program, there are the super stars and there are the mediocres. You can't actually tell me that everyone who comes out of an MDA program are at the same level clinically. Some are great and some are bad. I think the same goes for CRNA schools. Some will run circles around MDAs and others will founder and fail.
Ummmm, no. There are no CRNAs that “run circles” around the worst anesthesiologist. Even the worst anesthesiologist has been through the ringer, and has been stringently evaluated at every step of the way - med school admissions, med school curriculum, three USMLE steps, anesth knowledge tests, board exams, hospital credentialing committees, etc. etc. The very best CRNA and the very worst anesthesiologist may be similar. But average anesthesiologist blows away the average CRNA.
and ability is clear...and it has nothing to do with being able to drop a PNB or perform regional anesthesia. Saying that CRNAs and anesthesiologists are equal from the get go would mean nurses gain the same arsenal of knowledge as MDs in half the time. I know you guys are smart but there is no backdoor available for experience.
Absolutely false that a newly board certified MD anesthesiologist (or MDA to a nurse trying to disqualify an MDs path to certifificatiom) is as "useless" as a newly minted CRNA. I wont get into the difference in academic competitiveness to achieve the pinnacle of both groups but residents spend three years in the ors and one in the icus and wards compared to nursing level responsibility for a year in the icu and two years in the ors. At the start of our careers the difference in capability an
So let's face it CRNAs, many schools don't even teach us PNBs or regionals. How can we compare ourselves to MDAs. I am not a troll, I just want to play the devils advocate and open this discussion since I can't find anyone willing to give me a straight answer. We won't be a fully functional providers until we are fully trained in all areas of anesthesia. Don't chew me alive. Just answer me logically plz.
You are absolutely right. Most anesthesia departments don’t train CRNA students to perform regional anesthesia. I work in an academic center, and as a matter of policy we do not teach regional anesthesia to the CRNA students. In fact, when there’s a medical student in the operating room, I often have him/her perform the intubation and teach him/her how to place the a-line. I make it a point not to teach CRNA students.
but why? Is it b/c you think that we can't learn or we r not able to learn? I am a very logical. I think in reason and logic. I don't allow emotions to control me. At the same time, I am very open minded. I don't take offense to learning that I am not as good as you but tell me why? Why do you believe that I can't learn? Or is it fear that I will push you out of your market and take over? Is there any logic to your fear/ neg. emotions or you just let them control u w/o questioning their nature?
Schools of nurse anesthesia and anesthesia residencies must produce independent, full- service anesthesia providers, as I was trained. We have not had "ACT's" since TEFRA was enacted. Now the majority of ACT's are two experts fighting to deliver the same anesthetic to the same patient. It is now a greed-motivated model as opposed to its origins. Opt-out states try to remedy this.
The current opt out laws are set up unleashing newly minted CRNAs on the public without any restrictions. And in the case of consulting a specialist, would you really consult a midlevel provider over an MD? This is the point where qualifications matter and if you guys want to considered equivalent you need to go through the same certification process as MDs. Raise standards academically instead of razing them politically.
@MrChampkind7 New MD is just as useless as a new CRNA. I watched MDAs placing the "new guy on the block" with the easiest cases to help them grow for a while while keeping the complex cases for the seasoned MDs. I agree on the importance of raising the standards academically by including longer CRNA schooling time but newbie is newbie and one will always need guidance in the beginning- CRNAs and MDAs :)
@MrChampkind7- chip? This video demonstrates one big chip! These are merely my responses to the unfounded and otherwise ignorant rants that trounce CRNA's. I do agree with you however, some of us (and the trend is worsening) are not equipped for anesth school in the first place. Schools must produce full service providers.
I dont have to be careful because I respect you guys. I honestly think that a CRNA with enough experience (ten years?) and is continuously furthering their education could safely provide a solo anesthetic. My problem is with nurses who go straight to the ICU after nursing school, spend a year there, go straight off to CRNA school and then think they can immediately run their own cases. The bell curve is far wider amongst nurses than doctors. If you guys want to practice solo straight out y
@MrChampkind7 Yes I fully agree that they should always want to practice with others first. A new grad should always seek a seasoned CRNA or a seasoned MDA to practice with. Solo practice for new grads are not the way and I think it would be less scary for them too. Taking care of a sick pt alone is very scary- even MDs consult each other on the same cases, so why wouldn't we do the same?
and notice how the dipshit murse with a giant chip on his shoulder didnt read a word of what I wrote...facts are facts sally and ive prsented them...dispute a single one
Notice how the pompous windbags defend their unfounded positions with filibustering diatribes. Me thinks thou doth protest too much. I've done more AAA's and thoracoabdominals as a sole provider than I can even state. You need to learn your history and get educated if you want to have a legitimate debate based on facts and science.
Finally, the only thing that can substitute for a medical education is experience. Although an experienced CRNA would not have the same qualifications as a board certified anesthesiologist as suggested by an earlier poster, they may be equally capable. One to two years providing nursing care in an ICU and two years of CRNA school is not enough experience to provide a solo anesthetic. It is arrogant and oblivious to state otherwise. The eyes cannot see what the mind does not know.
@MrChampkind7 I can c that you're careful in not insulting us. I appreciate your approach in trying to speak logically. But the point that you are missing is that education isn't limited to school only. I continuously read/study and spend most of my time educating myself on stuff that I need to know to take excellent care of my patients. Education is free and limitless for all. It's not limited to schools only. There are cases that medical docs couldn't answer but I did b/c I study all the time.
Three, one year of ICU nursing experience taking care of two patients at a time is no small task, however it is not the same as the time an anesthesia resident spends in the ICU taking care of twenty five to thirty patients at a time. The fact that a resident placates your wishes to do something for a patient and writes orders you ask for does not mean that the resident was not going to write those orders in the first place, it means they trust you with their patient.
Clearly you dont have much respect for medical education but we do spend four undergraduate years taking advanced chemistry, biology, organic chemistry, and physics to prepare us for the gauntlet of medical school. The first two years of medical school are spent learning the pathophysiology the patients on the operating table are suffering from, the next two years are spent as an introduction on how these patients are treated. To equate nursing school to this experience is ridiculous.
Two, learning to do the same procedures is not the same as learning why youre doing those procedures. This is the largest difference between your four years of undergraduate nursing education and the four years of postgraduate education of medical school. You learn what and how to do things. We learn why. This cannot be understated. The reasoning behind why we do what we do is the single most difficult and important aspect of medicine. Anesthesia is not the job of a technician.
The only way to truly compare outcomes between the two groups would be to perform a double blinded, randomized study (the best kind of study that can be done, but Im sure you already knew that) where similar cases were given to each of the groups. For example, a CRNA would provide the anesthesia for a AAA repair and an anesthesiologist would not be allowed to assist in the case. Obviously, this is completely unethical, would never be approved by an IRB, will not and should not happen.
The thoughtful, elegant response of ellkant reveals exactly why the vast majority of, and especially the newbies, require supervision by an anesthesiologist. One, comparing the deaths and injuries of the 15 opt outs is comparing apples to oranges. Low acuity cases done in surgicenters by independent CRNAs do not equate to AAA's and liver transplants done in university hospitals by anesthesiologists should not and will not reveal similar outcomes.
In CRNA school I undergo the same training that you do for anesthesia, I learn to line patients, place pulmonary artery catheters, arterial lines, intubate, trach, monitor patients under all types of anesthesia, nerve blocs, etc. while in every clinical specialty, all while still possessing my very well practiced assessment skills, monitoring skills, and impressive bedside manner- all things that lead to more patients requesting CRNAs for their surgical procedures.
Then, when you doctors are going through your residency and spending a whole EIGHT WEEKS in each specialty, don't forget that I spent two years in the critical care setting taking care of my own sick patients, running my own codes, resuscitating my own patients, and telling my RESIDENTS what orders I need written, although I have already carried them out.
Furthermore, in all of the ORs that I have spent time- I have never seen one anesthesiologist sitting and watching what the CRNA does. Sure, MD's go through 4 years of medical school- I also went through four years of nursing school where I actually had clinicals and learned not only pathophysiology and the medicine behind every condition, but I also got to have hands-on training.
this is disgusting. first of all, you can't go to crna school after receiving a "nursing degree" in 2 years. so theres four years of education, an education that was just ranked the most difficult undergraduate degree to obtain, sorry pre-med people. Another thing, for those of you who think CRNAs need supervision because we are incapable, review the laws...its for reimbursement and billing purposes.
@SheWhoFeels of course they can and always have. Are there no ASA 4's in the 70% of hospitals where CRNA's are the sole providers? How about in combat and trauma? Most of us have years of experience in SICU/ trauma before even applying. Of particular note: ASA status is a trumped-up classification system by The A$A merely to determine how much to bill. I am not a mber of ASA, nor do I give a rat's ass how that organization classifies my pts.
@DrSuperSixSeven As I was reading your comments, to get understanding of your logic for having so much hate for CRNAs, I find you Freaking Annoying and very Childish in your thought patterns. You need a shrink AND a proctologist STAT.
This comment has received too many negative votesshow
omg fucking retards posting and arguing in the comments. Healthcare is a unique field where, culturally, only MD are considered doctors. I'm a doctorate prepared biologist at a hospital but I don't go by Dr. because it just sounds dumb and looks like I'm trying to inflate my ego. However, if I was in acadamia, it would be perfectly acceptable to use the title. The same thing applies to nursing doctorates, its a cultural thing. Take your paycheck every two weeks and move on with your lives.
@AngelOne11 not sure where you are practicing or how much experience you have but the comment that CRNA's have no or less responsibility or liability is preposterous. I have the same 1million/3million policy as the ologists and have been a defendant. As far as our pts being "less sick" I guess there are no A$A 4's in the 70% of hospitals where CRNA's are the sole providers.
BTW I agree with you that the success rate of CRNA is probably based on the fact that the majority of CRNAs handle less complex cases than an anesthesiologist. I recall saying that before I watched your vid. But I don't forget a CRNA teaching PNB for eyes in Florida university to MDs. Now that tells you that not all are the same. There are outstanding CRNAs and bad MDs. Not all the same and generalization is dangerous.
Why the anger and animosity towards CRNAs? Are you worried that you won't have place to practice? There is enough of money all over the world to be made. Just be open and receptive to it. If you are living in the US, then you know that there is enough wealth to go around and your eyes shouldn't be on my pie. You have your OWN. Just open up and receive it. No need to fight and express hate. Focus on making money by providing outstanding services and research. You won't go poor I promise you this.
Correction, i reversed the stats. 37 (not 35) states DO NOT require any supervision whatsoever. The remaining 12 require CRNA supervision by physicians other than anesthesiologists. So a dentist can supervise a CRNA. Thats a kick in the crotch to both docs and CRNA's. What a joke. The whole battle is driven by greed and nothing else.
Correction... 38 states DO NOT require supervision, direction, presence or whatever the bullshit term. The remaining 12 require supervision of nurse anesthetists by physicians other than anesthesiologists. So in 12 stats a Dentist can "supervise" an anesthetic administered by a CRNA. That's a real kick in the crotch to both docs and CRNA's alike.
@jamaggik I know EXACTLY what I am speaking of. Yes, the majority of states (35 to be exact) require CRNA supervision by a PHYSICIAN- as it had always been since Nurses at the mayo clinic began to develop and ultimately pioneer the art of anesthesia. I reiterate- IT IS Not A REQUIREMENT IN ANY STATE FOR AN ANESTHESIOLOGIST TO SUPERVISE A CRNA. What a colossal waste of the ever-shrinking healthcare dollar that would be. No?
Some hospitals (mainly urban hospitals) have policies that mandate supervision of CRNA's as a means to maximize profits not because it is any less safe for a CRNA to deliver an anesthetic. If CRNA's need to be supervised, why is it NOT a requirement by a single state? Respectfully.
@Megaanesthetist you have no idea what you speak about, the overwhelming numbers of states do require crnas to be supervised by physicians; either the surgeon or the anesthesiologist
....in fact all states have the power to opt out of the Medicare supervision requirements of CRNA's. 16 have already exercised that option. NP's are also not trained to function independently as CRNA's are for upon graduation, statistically, they will.
@Megaanesthetist All states require nurses to be supervised by MDs ... whether they are anesthesiologists or surgeons so u are never practicing alone .... so in a "rural area" if an airway is lost or a patient has a bad outcome then its on the surgeons neck ... u have no idea what u r talking about
@akmd114379 how can you opine that CRNA's need to be supervised when in over 70% of rural hospitals they are the sole providers of anesthesia. There are HUGE differences bet CRNA's and NP's. Primarily NP's practice "medicine lite" as "physician extenders" whereas the practice of anesthesia is entirely different. The docs are now referring to CRNA's as same in order to protect their financial interests.
I supervise CRNAs in my practice and have several things to say. First off the CRNAs I work with are very intelligent and 90% of the time I go to the OR just because in the hospitals I'm at it is required. The CRNAs never have told me that I don't need to be supervised. However some CRNAs believe this and that is wrong. It is equivalent to a NP who has just as much training as a CRNA in their field saying they can practice without an MD. Bottom line if you want to be a doctor go to med school.
First of all, it's 4 years of Nursing school, not 2, and a minimum of 2 years of ICU experience, not 1; with many applicants having far more due to the competitiveness of the program. The same books are used in CRNA school as are by Anesthesia residents... So why is it that the CRNA is the moron?? He/She is actually much smarter; for working 3 days a week, paying 3k insurance, not 25+, and having a life... Fucking loser that made this, go OD on Propofol like Michael jackson.
1.) a bunch of butthurt RNs and CRNAs complaining because a doctor talked some shit about having more knowledge and training
2.) a tool who thinks he is more intelligent/superior than the vast majority of people only because he is paid well and works a job that requires tons of training.
3.) Get a life people, the man is just venting about work and voicing his opinion.
@fmendoza8120. Policies and Procedures manuals, fuzzy thoughts, caring, and good intentions will not help a whit, when your ASA 4 patient takes a multi system dump on your table.
I am an RT, I work as an Anesthesia Assisstant. My wife is an R5 Anesthesia resident. I left nursing to do RT because I wanted to use my brain more, and My wife and I have been together since before med school. When my wife talks anesthesia, I STFU and listen. 9 years of training have transformed her, and stuffed more knowledge into her head, than I could ever imagine. We are in Canada, so no RNAs. Funny vid, exactly why I left nursing.
Hey DrSuperSixSeven, you're so cool... I'd love to see you actually say that to a CRNA and get your ass whooped. You douche bag... most relationships between CRNA's and MD's are pretty solid and respectful. Get your head out of your ass. I have a feeling your really insecure with your liscence if you have to make a video like this.
I for one will not be pursuing an MD in anesthesiology because of this ridiculous video. I'm afraid my head will grow out of proportion such as the character in this video. It's not about the money, or who has the bigger dick, it's about helping others, period!
After I watched the video, having seen the ratio of the like/dislike bar, I couldn't help but cringe before glancing down at the comments. I had a good anticipation of the flame-war I was about to witness, and I wasn't disappointed. You guys have been fighting like badgers for almost a year now over the size of your intellectual egos, and it has been very entertaining to read snippets of that history.
Okay... So I'm in CRNA school... I have the upmost respect for anesthesiologist.. Really I do... I understand that you all have an MD... I'm getting my doctorate though... And if you (physicians) give me crap, then I'll give it right back to you. And that goes for everyone in the hospital.. Grow up. All of you. Really... Arguing on YouTube... You all are so immature... It's about the patient regardless of what school you went to... When it comes down to it, each of us have the same goal. Get th
@DrSuperSixSeven I have a strong feeling at the end you are just going to say..."Well...I am a dentist but thats still a doctor"...piss off Dr. Faggot!
That being said, the above video is tasteless and inflammatory; it is sadly misrepresentative of the respectful and professional relationship that generally exists between anesthesiologists and nurse anesthetists. Both are integral components of the anesthesia care team, where they individually serve a unique and important role. It is a dis-service that the level of cooperation, conversation, and understanding between this tightly-knit unit should be portrayed to the public in this manner.
Please. They are physician extenders. Every patient, even the ASA 1 eighteen year-old college athlete having a knee scope benefits from having an anesthesiologist handling his case, from a safety standpoint in case anything goes wrong. Unforseen, adverse reactions to anesthesia as well as previously undiagnosed health problems that suddenly and unexpectedly affect the anesthetic can and do occur. CRNAs exist because it’s too expensive to staff every case with an anesthesiologist
Kindly do not misinterpret or misrespresent these statements. I have great respect for nurse anesthetists. Without them, I would not be able to perform my job as well as I can today. In short,they permit me the latitude to focus my clinical skills and knowledge base where they are needed most. This is a tremendously valuable service, and it should not be discounted in any sense. I respect them as practitioners and count several of them as my personal friends.
In all of these aspects, there is a crystal-clear distinction between anesthesiologists and nurse anesthetists. Period. Anyone who is saying something that deviates from this undeniable truth is spreading misinformation and/or outright lies.
There are four primary differences between nurse anesthetists and physician anesthesiologists: depth and breadth of knowledge base, versatility in clinical skills and decision-making processes, level of ethical and legal responsibility of patient-care assumed, and quantity and quality of original contributions to the basic- and clinical-science of anesthesiology.
Let me add a fifth difference - and this is a biggie. CRNAs may be the cream of the nursing crop, but they’re still nurses, and it should be noted that the kinds of students who go into nursing aren’t exactly the most intellectually gifted, i.e. the way medical students tend to be. Put another way, anesthesiologists are almost universally produced from a much higher quality of raw material. Add to that the superior training we have, and the difference between us and CRNAs is huge
@DrSuperSixSeven hey dr a-hole, unless you went to nursing school, stop making rash comments about nurses, ok. You sound like an insecure ass. The best doctors I know can utilize help from other team members, not just diss them. Why you are such a dick head? Stop dissing people who are helping you with your patients. My uncle is the head of the cardiology department (an MD) and he's not even half of a dick as you.
@DrSuperSixSeven Oh, give me a break. There are plenty of legitimate differences between MDs and CRNAs.
But the ol' docs are inherently smarter than nurses is old and dated in an economy where many people are anxious to find stable work and unwilling or unable to take on massive student loan debt. Throw in the desire to start a family or have anything resembling a social life in the next eight years and you're left with plenty of extremely intelligent people who CHOSE nursing over medicine.
And yet, there are more people applying to medical school than ever.
Exceedingly few people CHOOSE nursing over medicine because they are dissimilar professions. Nursing is not “medicine-lite”. Nursing is nursing. Nurses don’t have the same training as physicians do....and quite frankly, neither do mid-level nurses. Your claim that many would-be medical students opt for nursing because of social factors is ludicrous.
over medicine. I've known a few long-time nurses who are bitter, now, because they were forced into nursing (old old nurses because they were women, in fact). And, at least in my experience, choosing nursing over medicine is not ludicrous at all. Perhaps you come from a more well-off family or made better decisions early on about having a family/children/etc.
@dirtyhippiegirl1 No one is disputing that there are intelligent people who go into all fields of nursing, nor does anyone blame you for choosing nursing for all the (very legitimate) reasons that you mention. Just understand that decisions have consequences, and when choosing to get a CRNA education you do NOT get the same training it takes to become a board certified MD anesthesiologist. No one has a problem with CRNAs except when they try to be doctors.
That argument sounds good, but the facts don’t support it. Medical school admission continues to be among the most (if not THE most) competitive professional school to get into. People who are interested in being doctors aren’t going to find satisfaction in being a mid-level provider unless they are forced into it (i.e. by being unable to get into medical school). Most people who go to nursing school didn’t have the grades or the drive (or both) to go to medical school.
@DrSuperSixSeven Define superior training when you just said you know shit about CRNA programs? You are a doctor...CRNAs are nurses...but they do the same shit!
@trilogyfilm honestly it is really the smartest choice when it comes to life style and comfort. I choose nursing for the same reason. I don't want to be sleep deprived and lash out on nurses or loved ones. I like my shifts and when I am done, I go home- no calls, overnights, or legal responsibilities while making decent living. Smart choice!
@DrSuperSixSeven cream of the crop? are you kidding me? I don't have a god complex, would like to have a family one day and actually care about people. I don't need to become part of the physician-patient disconnect we see all to often. Where physicians can't even be bothered to offer a minimal explanation for any of the diagnoses you place upon them. I think intellectually gifted in your definition is synonymous with socially retarded
I provide care in the OR, ED, PACU, ICU, labor suite, MRI suite, cardiology suite, EP, and provide acute pain management for the inpatient floor. At one point, our small group of anesthesiologists provided full time medical (physician) coverage to the med/surg ICU for over 12 consecutive months on our post-call days, and outcomes were never better there. How many CRNAs can say they can do all this? None. Period.
Anesthesiologists (in general) are more skilled and nuanced in the medical practice of anesthesiology (emphasis on the phrase 'medical practice') than nurse anesthetists (in general). Period. Patient has an INR of 4 and they need a central line-->they call me. Patient is 200kg, in respiratory distress, and in dire need of intubation-->they call me. Patient goes into V-tach in the PACU-->they call me. Not the anesthetist. All the time. Every time.
For any big cases (AAAs, pneumonectomy, hearts) our hospital staffs anesthesiologists only. The CRNAs would be chewed up and spit out in minutes in these cases if they were solo. I'm sorry, but it's true. I have placed well over one thousand central lines, five hundred PA catheters, hundreds of peripheral nerve blocks, over one thousand thoracic and lumbar epidurals, probably a thousand+ art lines. Taken care of airway nightmares you wouldn't believe. Testamer and regular practitioner of TEE.
During a medically-directed case, my response time is less than sixty seconds at all times. When the sh** is hitting the fan, I come in, the CRNA steps back (against the wall), and I fix the situation. Period. It's not a rub against CRNAs. They provide a very valuable service as physician extenders. But, in my humble opinion and real-world experience, they just don't have the mind-set to take over a situation and make the critical interventions when it really counts.
Funny video... Funnier conversations. I'm a private-practice anesthesiologist with six years experience both medically directing nurse anesthetists and performing cases solo. I've personally seen the good, the bad, and the ugly from both sides of the degree hierarchy. The bottom line is this: when the patient is sick, I mean really sick, CRNAs just don't stack up. Physician basic science knowledge, clinical knowledge, and clinical skill level is superior. Period.
FINALLY some CLARITY in this world...these fucking RNs are taking over.......how dare they even think they desereve to make half of what we make?? They take the EASY way out in life and then want the same salary and be given the same respect...get the fuck outta here...in the 1960's even when an INTERN would walk the halls ALL the nurses would stand up and say 'hello, Doctor'' because that's when they used to have respect..now they are just dirt
Nurse anesthetist vs. anesthesiologist - not much to debate. They both provide the same care for equally acute procedures regardless of patient acuity @ UC Irvine Medical Center (trauma 1 center and Magnet Hospital). :) live laugh love
There are anesthesiologists there. Says it on their website: "At UC Irvine Medical Center, board-certified or -eligible physicians personally provide or medically direct complete anesthetic care during all surgical procedures."
In a nutshell, a good reason one may want to become an CRNA is 1. takes less schooling. and 2. Good pay. DrSuperSixSeven just seems like a douche who has no life, spending his time bashing on CRNA's. I have been viewing various vidos and it seems Mr.DrSuperFaggot has something to say in each one. The funny thing is no one cares what you have to say, it doesnt mak a differe, it wont make a difference. So, just go back to watching gay porn in your basement, and quite trolling.
@dbizzler I'm a Jew and proud of it. So mind your business. SixSeven lives up to our wretched stereotypes. This is between me and the little pussy man. I'd love to meet you SixSeven.
@DrSuperSixSeven not a homophobe nor racist. I just know a Jew bastard when I see one. NO ONE likes one of those. I know an insecure, immature, blow-hard when I see one too. poor little pussyboy. Looks like everyone has you pegged. I laugh that you feel as though the bullshit education you get that's completely unrelated to anesthesia qualifies you as a superior practitioner. So naive. My brother has degrees in physics economics and law. I guess he would be a better anesthesia provider too. Hah
@DrSuperSixSeven What you say about our military is a fuckin flat out disgrace. It is a comment that comes from an immature, over-privileged snot nosed punk that has no clue About anything accept his little faggitty Affairs. I have friends that are war veterans how dare you, you motherfucking little Jew bastard!! Their equipment sucks because our... My government is cheap... Not because they are expendable. I cringe for you. You fucking scumbag lower life form.
Gives me a warm fuzzy feeling to know that our military and group of nurse-anesthetists consists of racist, homophobic individuals like this nurse. Yeah, they definitely go for individuals of the highest quality! LOL
What I say about the military is true. To Uncle Sam, soldiers aren’t important enough to spend money on a full staff of anesthesiologists. Hence, they hire a hell of a lot of CRNAs. The standards are much lower for health care in the military.
I lave how this cock sucker SixSeven thinks he knows everything. I've been providing anesthesia care in All settings for 15 yrs. Your training is no different than mine accept you studied botany among many other superfluous 3 credit courses. Lastly, as I stated,I will categorically destroy you in an academic debate and clinically, you are not even in the same universe. You know this an that is why you post such atrocious comments.
And I suppose you know they’re “superflulous” because you have completed all of them yourself as part of your four years of medical school and have determined that they have not contributed to your task of providing anesthesia?
We all know who the TRUE anesthesiologists are. CRNAs baby!!!!!!!!!!!! Since the Civil War. Outside of the facts you're just wish you were one. I love being a CRNA. I'll be around for so long practicing and making the big bucks. I love it. I love it. I'll just have to continue dealing with the wannabee MDAs. Oh well, can't have it all I guess. Loser!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! No matter what you say, I'll be here for a long time!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I love it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
@shorthand I mentioned all that a few posts back. I reiterate that in 75% of rural hospitals, crna's are the sole anesthesia providers. That number is even higher in the military. I guess our brave servicemen and servicewomen are just expendable to this snot-nosed punk. He is blasphemous. I cringe for him.
You hit the nail right on the head, buddy. Our servicemen and servicewomen ARE expendable to everyone, including the government. It is a universally accepted fact that they are skimped on in every aspect of their association with our government, from body armor to health care.
CRNAs are the sole providers in rural hospitals because rural hospitals don’t treat the sickest patients. Those patients get sent out to hospitals that have, among other things, anesthesiologists.
A link to this video was sent to me. As a hospital administrator, I am appalled by videos like these that float around the internet. They are highly offensive and unprofessional. I am amused by the high-school style postings. I will admit though, having 21 years experience, meganurse is right.
Ochf033 12 hours ago
Videos like this are a riot! Puts CRNA's and even more so, the nurses in their place. Nurses are so fond of knocking the MDds, all the while (too scary) not realizing what they (the nurses) DON'T know. I love it.
morellamas 1 day ago
Videos like these are horrible. They make all doctors and nurses look bad. The whole point of going into medicine is to ease the pain of someone else and maybe increase their level of health. I hope I never encounter doctors and nurses like these. I would never trust a doctor or nurse that speaks that this or has a large ego. Cursing is unprofessional as well.
starlight200816 1 day ago
lol...residents are MDs ya douche...stop trying to deny your title murse
The only facts youve proven is that you enjoy slamming on your keyboard in response to any criticism of nurses and really really really want to reduce the standards of anesthesia providers.
Strong work
MrChampkind7 2 days ago
The bitter reality remains, that the pond is rapidly shrinking. When it does, it's harder to feed the big expensive fish- especially when science and resultantly in a few cases, legislation do not indicate those fish are a necessity.
Megaanesthetist 2 days ago
@Megaanesthetist
Tell you what, Mega nurse (by the way, I love how you call yourself “anesthetist”....it kinda sounds like anesthesiologist!)...
Once hospitals like Mass General and Mayo Clinic and other major hospitals start having their anesthesia departments run by nurses like you, then maybe I’ll say that you’re not full of shit.
DrSuperSixSeven 1 day ago
@akmd114379 what's a CRNA committee? You know very little about the politics of anesthesia practice. You don't even know the names of our Organizations. The "president" works there because your predecessors succeeded at monopolizing the anesthesia market in that area. It's interesting when stating the facts which are so contrary to common belief become "oozing" overcompensations.
Megaanesthetist 2 days ago
@Megaanesthetist
That’s because doctors generally don’t give a shit about your little nursing organizations.
DrSuperSixSeven 1 day ago
"supervise your dumb ass" that's a trip. Dr Superasshole. "shithole hospitals" what a naive fukn loser you are! I guess any hospital that's outside city limits is a "shithole" you Need to see a shrink to resolve some of those issues. Stick to the facts. One huge fact- I'm your worst whistle blowing, truth- telling, fraud exposing nightmare.
Megaanesthetist 2 days ago
@Megaanesthetist
That’s tall talk for a nurse. With half the education I have, I hardly think you’re qualified to determine whether or not I’m a fraud.
DrSuperSixSeven 1 day ago
Ahhhhh now the cockroaches start to scatter. My title was RN before I became CRNA. Just like your titles were "resident" before you became attendings. I'm hardly insecure. I'm as strong and confident, competent and refined a practitioner of anesthesia as you will find- which is why I refuse to engage in nerdy clinical debates and harsh criticism. Just FACTS!
Megaanesthetist 2 days ago
@Megaanesthetist
What is a resident? A resident is a physician. A physician who is training in a particular field of medicine.
What is an attending? An attending is a physician. A physician who has completed training in a particular field of medicine.
What is a CRNA? An RN. An RN who is training in nurse-anesthesia.
You can’t hide your shit degree, buddy. No matter how hard you try to cover it up, you’re still just a nurse.
DrSuperSixSeven 1 day ago
Wow! "Im not an RN"
Are you no longer registered and just certified? Just a CNA now or something?
If youre ashamed of your degree maybe you shouldnt have gone that route guy.
Youre just oozing with insecurity and overcompensation.
MrChampkind7 3 days ago
Sorry... Correction to previous post. 40 states DO NOT require supervision of CRNA's by any health professional or entity. NO states require supervision by anesthesiologists.
Megaanesthetist 3 days ago
@Megaanesthetist
Yeah, and?
Find one major hospital center, one academic hospital where CRNAs aren't supervised by anesthesiologists.
You seem to think that someone out there is thinking "yeah, CRNAs are great. They're just as good".
The reason states opted-out is because there are shit-holes out in the middle of nowhere where anesthesiologists won't go. The powers that be have simply determined that CRNAs are better than nothing. That's all.
DrSuperSixSeven 3 days ago
Who's next to pollute my email and then get slammed with straight facts? Who's next to continue to misconstrue what is required by Medicare to get paid, and what is actually in accordance with public policy state-by-state? Even more disconcerting is the amount of CRNA's that know neither their history nor the laws which govern their practice.
Megaanesthetist 3 days ago
@akmd114379 contrarily sir I know EXACTLY what I speak of. 40 states require supervision of CRNA's by physicians. No state requires supervision by you. We are always independently responsible and liable for the anesthetics we deliver and are recognized in state law in all 50 states. surgeons are never automatically liable for the actions of CRNA's. In contrast, surgeons are not immune from liability when working with MDA's.
Megaanesthetist 3 days ago
@Megaanesthetist first off i mentioned that all states require supervision by an MD I did not specifically mention an MDA ... second more than 90 % of the research that u read about in textbooks are done by MDs. ... nurses only carry out orders that MDs provide to them one way or another ... theres no getting around it i dont care how hard the cRNA PAC fights about it ... fact is all major hospitals in most states require presence of an anesthesiologist in a supervising role
akmd114379 3 days ago
@Megaanesthetist in fact the president of the cRNA committee currently works in a hospital where his room is supervised by an MDA ... so my final take on this since i normally dont argue with people behind a screen is u guys are fighting a losing battle if u think independently practicing nurses will be a norm
akmd114379 3 days ago
@James02091983 are you kidding? First of all I'm not an RN. I will not engage in a nerdy debate regarding clinical scenarios. I can tell by your reply that you have little experience. 1983- I bet that's your birth date. I will say that if you are calling for a TEE for hypotension immediately after trocar insertion your chasing zebras. Was that your answer on your oral boards?
Megaanesthetist 3 days ago
@Megaanesthetist
Oh yes you are an RN. That's your base degree. You are, in every sense of the word, a nurse.
DrSuperSixSeven 3 days ago
@Megaanesthetist
I fucking LOVE it!! A fucking nurse critiquing a physician's medical decision-making!
DrSuperSixSeven 3 days ago
I don't believe I have read a single complaint by a CRNA about their salary. Not complaining about that. Tell me Saltfly, How much of a mastery level biochemist do I have to be to deliver competent anesthesia care. That argument is so weak and an insult to biochemists. Tell me are you actually manufacturing the drugs and creating new compounds as you watch the CRNA's administer them?
Megaanesthetist 1 week ago
@Megaanesthetist Let me give you a scenario where you would end up over your head. lets say the surgeon just put laparoscopic trocars in place and the pt's pressure suddenly begins to drop. anesthesia performs an emergent TEE and discovers bubbles in the RA/RV, flowing through a PFO into the LA/LV. Would you have known to do an emergent TEE, have you ever even done one or how to read one? Do you know what a PFO is? Do you know where the air bubbles are coming from? Thats why MD>RN
james02091983 3 days ago
if youre independent and your salary is a 1/3 of an anesthesiologist shine your green eyes of envy at the hospital taking whats "owed" to you. You bill the same for the same procedures.
Angel and skbu....Maintenance of Certification in Anesthesiology...or google MOCA anesthesia. Where the hell do you work that none of your docs have heard of this?
MrChampkind7 1 week ago
I am an anesthesiologist who supervises CRNAs every day. Just like anesthesiologists, some are highly skilled and others are not. Some certainly have the intellectual capacity to equal physicians, but they simply do not have the knowledge required. They don't understand anatomy, physiology, pharmacology, biochemistry, etc. at the same level because the education is not the same. They also don't seem to have the same work ethic, although many of the younger doctors don't seem to have it either.
TheSaltfly 1 week ago
@TheSaltfly
I train anesthesiology residents (and unfortunately, we have a CRNA program as well), and I can tell you that there is NO COMPARISON between anesthesiology residents and CRNA students in terms of knowledge and ability to understand the medicine behind anesthesia. They are worlds apart. The ONLY thing where they are comparable is with intubation - which is a very specific skill you can take a bum off the street and train to perform.
As for work ethics, MDs are superior there too.
DrSuperSixSeven 3 days ago
@chimpkind my bloated salary? It takes 3 of me to make as much as 1 of you! Anesthesiologists are billing experts. You know exactly my fee schedule and rate of reimbursement. The difference is that I actually deliver the anesthetics. For that I can look at myself in the mirror. Anesleeziologists. I like that.
Megaanesthetist 1 week ago
@Megaanesthetist
Yes, and we watch over your dumb asses to make sure you don't kill our patients. That certainly warrants some extra dough our way.
DrSuperSixSeven 3 days ago
@MrChampkind7; I found this MOCA- Missouri Ozarks Community Action.
22 years at this and I've never heard of MOCA (nor have any of my docs).
skbugco 1 week ago
This has been flagged as spam show
Megamurse...how many seven and sevens deep were you when you made that post? Also, how much do you bill for your independent cases in comparison to what an anesthesiologist bills? A simple thank you for negotiating your bloated salary would be enough.
And in regards to respecting nurses, I do respect them. It doesnt change the fact that the only studies Ive seen by you guys involves your desperate attempts to show how your nursing degree equals a medical degree.
MrChampkind7 1 week ago
Megamurse...how many seven and sevens deep were you when you made that post? Also, how much do you bill for your independent cases in comparison to what an anesthesiologist bills? A simple thank you for negotiating your bloated salary would be enough.
And in regards to respecting nurses, I do respect them. It doesnt change the fact that the only studies Ive seen by you guys involves your desperate attempts to show how your nursing degree equals a medical degree.
MrChampkind7 1 week ago
Just because they are rude to us, we don't have to go down to their level. As CRNAs, we can do better than those MDAs; besides we are close to ruling the market so who cares what they say :)
AngelOne11 1 week ago
Also-- it's the docs that open and control many of the CrnA programs!!! Again greed trumps all!!!
Megaanesthetist 1 week ago
@MrChampkind Ahhhhh now out come the daggers. Thought you "actually respect" CRNA's. Perhaps all states will opt out and finally rid the healthcare system of its fraudulent, Medicare-bilking leaches called anesthesiologists. ANESTHESIOlOGiST What a stupid name to define the weakest and least respected doctors. Big fucking losersFuck you all!! Go count your money that CRNA's earned for you. Everyone hates you.
Megaanesthetist 1 week ago
@Megaanesthetist Really? I thought the general surgeon was the most hated. I'm quite partial to the anesthesiologists really, especially seeing as I know a number of very respectable people who happen to hold that occupation. For future enjoyment, though, you may refer to them as "anesleeziologists", as I've once heard it put before. you could get a few laughs out of that one.
inspiredartist2391 1 week ago
nurses are dumb if they think they are doctors...I wouldn't trust these Notors do give anesthesia to my dog and he died 2 years ago
kidsandjazz 1 week ago
And BTW,
I don't have a great deal of respect for most RN's either..........
skbugco 1 week ago
MrChampkind;
I have a great deal more respect for the MD's that were doing this before; Glidescopes, ultrasounds, ETCO2 detectors, O2 Sat monitors, BIS monitors, Nerve stimulating cath's, FloTrac's.
The technology has made most of your job fail safe (99/100 times) and you know it.
Given that you use mostly the same drugs/ protocols in the warmth of a OR suite, try doing what you do in the back of an Airstar with night vision, or upside down in a ditch when it's 0C out. Just sayin....
skbugco 1 week ago
maybe states will soon opt out on crnas and allow anesthesia techs to provide unsupervised anesthesia 99/100 times.
look up MOCA if you want to know how we maintain certification...a can do attitude and a masters degree does not transform an RN into the equivalent of an MD.
MDs current contributions to the field: open more fellowships, pump out studies furthering the field of Anesthesiology
Nurses contribution to the field: open more crna mills, pump out more studies claiming equality
MrChampkind7 1 week ago
@MrChampkind7 MOCA = Museum of Chinese in America? :)
AngelOne11 1 week ago
DrSuperSixSeven: You're a prick. I'm just a lowly Anesthesia Tech with a Bachelors and Paramedic degree, and you know as well as I that a monkey can do your job 99/100 times. You went to medical school. Great. Don't be a ass-hat.
skbugco 1 week ago
Btw there are no simple cases: any case can go sour at any time. So let's stop this right now and then.
AngelOne11 1 week ago
The best model of practice is MDAs and CRNAs working in collaboration. Now hush and don't argue on who is better. Just go to work and take of the patients the best way you can. Money is everywhere no need to fear that it will be scant. Set your emotions aside and use your mind. Work together not against one another. Only all of us will lose if we do so!
AngelOne11 1 week ago 8
This video and most of the discussion is inappropriate. It should be taken down. It is an embarrassment to both Nurse Anesthetists and Anesthesiologists. It is counterproductive and frankly disappointing. We should hold ourselves to a higher standard. The people we care for put their lives in our hands and this type of activity destroys trust and strains fragile creditability.
SuperLightCore 2 weeks ago
135 CRNAs give thumbs down to achieving through education what they are trying to gain through legislation
topperswim 2 weeks ago
In regards to academic competitiveness, MD's win hands down every time. Contrary to popular belief, anesthesiology is one of the more competitive residencies to get into, in fact, it is more competitive to get into than general surgery. The certification process is far more rigorous to become an MD anesthesiologist than a CRNA. MDs have to pass Step 1, 2, 3, all of their AKTs, and pass their oral and written boards every ten years. If a newly minted CRNA can pass our board exams well talk.
MrChampkind7 2 weeks ago
@MrChampkind7 Every 10 yrs? Wow who test them? Is there something similar for CRNAs? Why would some surgeons wanna hire CRNAs only and have been working with them exclusively for yrs if CRNAs are not as good as MDAs? These are not questions to put anyone on the spot. I am very curious; I am the "why" girl.
BTW, I didn't apply to CRNA school until I had 3+ yrs of intense ICU experience. Many of my classmates did the same.
AngelOne11 2 weeks ago
@AngelOne11
Talk about clueless!
Surgeons (e.g. plastic surgeons, usually) hire CRNAs because they are dealing generally with the healthiest patients (sick patients don’t have elective cosmetic surgeries under anesthesia), and because CRNAs work cheap.
And as for your “intense ICU experience”, spare me that bullshit, will you? Are you forgetting that I’ve spent a lot of time training in the ICU and I know exactly what you nurses do there? There’s nothing “intense” about your experience.
DrSuperSixSeven 2 weeks ago
@DrSuperSixSeven ok you are right. That was a plastic surgeon that hires only crnas. But what about the hospitals that hires CRNAs for their ORs! these pt's are not well so again how come. I appreciate the education.
AngelOne11 1 week ago
False. Of the five nurses I know going to CRNA school this year, three have less than two years experience. It is not "harder" to get into CRNA school than medical school because there are more applicants. Its simply a statistic showing how the vast majority of new ICU nurses are attempting to streamline their way into CRNA school. I guarantee the average GPA of a medical school matriculant is higher than the average nursing school matriculant.
MrChampkind7 2 weeks ago
@MrChampkind7
Let’s look back a little further in anesthesiologists’ and CRNAs’ respective academic timelines, all the way back to high school, and I have no doubt you’ll find that anesthesiologists were better high school students, had higher SAT scores, went to more competitive universities, and probably achieved higher GPAs at those more competitive universities.
DrSuperSixSeven 2 weeks ago
@DrSuperSixSeven You must be joking...
enjoytheride85 2 weeks ago
@MrChampkind7 you know what they say about assumptions?
enjoytheride85 2 weeks ago
I can also assure you that no one these days is going to CRNA school without at least 3-4 yrs of ICU experience. They just won't fly - they will weed them out in the interview process where there are at least 10 people shooting different clinical questions at the applicant and the applicant must know their shit or they won't be selected. It's actually harder to get to CRNA school vs Medical school. For each spot there are 100 applicant. MD school for each spot there are 30 applicants.
AngelOne11 2 weeks ago
@AngelOne11
You can fool the layperson, but you can’t fool me or anyone else who knows better. Your ICU experience is not a form of training. There is nothing to standardize your experiences or guarantee that you’ve encountered X number of patients or pathologies the way medical school and residency guarantees these things. Furthermore, formal teaching is not a major component of your “ICU experience” either, if you get any at all. They hire ICU nurses to work, not to learn.
DrSuperSixSeven 2 weeks ago
Like any program, there are the super stars and there are the mediocres. You can't actually tell me that everyone who comes out of an MDA program are at the same level clinically. Some are great and some are bad. I think the same goes for CRNA schools. Some will run circles around MDAs and others will founder and fail.
AngelOne11 2 weeks ago
@AngelOne11
Ummmm, no. There are no CRNAs that “run circles” around the worst anesthesiologist. Even the worst anesthesiologist has been through the ringer, and has been stringently evaluated at every step of the way - med school admissions, med school curriculum, three USMLE steps, anesth knowledge tests, board exams, hospital credentialing committees, etc. etc. The very best CRNA and the very worst anesthesiologist may be similar. But average anesthesiologist blows away the average CRNA.
DrSuperSixSeven 2 weeks ago
and ability is clear...and it has nothing to do with being able to drop a PNB or perform regional anesthesia. Saying that CRNAs and anesthesiologists are equal from the get go would mean nurses gain the same arsenal of knowledge as MDs in half the time. I know you guys are smart but there is no backdoor available for experience.
MrChampkind7 2 weeks ago
Absolutely false that a newly board certified MD anesthesiologist (or MDA to a nurse trying to disqualify an MDs path to certifificatiom) is as "useless" as a newly minted CRNA. I wont get into the difference in academic competitiveness to achieve the pinnacle of both groups but residents spend three years in the ors and one in the icus and wards compared to nursing level responsibility for a year in the icu and two years in the ors. At the start of our careers the difference in capability an
MrChampkind7 2 weeks ago
So let's face it CRNAs, many schools don't even teach us PNBs or regionals. How can we compare ourselves to MDAs. I am not a troll, I just want to play the devils advocate and open this discussion since I can't find anyone willing to give me a straight answer. We won't be a fully functional providers until we are fully trained in all areas of anesthesia. Don't chew me alive. Just answer me logically plz.
AngelOne11 2 weeks ago
@AngelOne11
You are absolutely right. Most anesthesia departments don’t train CRNA students to perform regional anesthesia. I work in an academic center, and as a matter of policy we do not teach regional anesthesia to the CRNA students. In fact, when there’s a medical student in the operating room, I often have him/her perform the intubation and teach him/her how to place the a-line. I make it a point not to teach CRNA students.
DrSuperSixSeven 2 weeks ago
but why? Is it b/c you think that we can't learn or we r not able to learn? I am a very logical. I think in reason and logic. I don't allow emotions to control me. At the same time, I am very open minded. I don't take offense to learning that I am not as good as you but tell me why? Why do you believe that I can't learn? Or is it fear that I will push you out of your market and take over? Is there any logic to your fear/ neg. emotions or you just let them control u w/o questioning their nature?
AngelOne11 1 week ago
Schools of nurse anesthesia and anesthesia residencies must produce independent, full- service anesthesia providers, as I was trained. We have not had "ACT's" since TEFRA was enacted. Now the majority of ACT's are two experts fighting to deliver the same anesthetic to the same patient. It is now a greed-motivated model as opposed to its origins. Opt-out states try to remedy this.
Megaanesthetist 2 weeks ago
The current opt out laws are set up unleashing newly minted CRNAs on the public without any restrictions. And in the case of consulting a specialist, would you really consult a midlevel provider over an MD? This is the point where qualifications matter and if you guys want to considered equivalent you need to go through the same certification process as MDs. Raise standards academically instead of razing them politically.
MrChampkind7 2 weeks ago
@MrChampkind7 New MD is just as useless as a new CRNA. I watched MDAs placing the "new guy on the block" with the easiest cases to help them grow for a while while keeping the complex cases for the seasoned MDs. I agree on the importance of raising the standards academically by including longer CRNA schooling time but newbie is newbie and one will always need guidance in the beginning- CRNAs and MDAs :)
AngelOne11 2 weeks ago
@MrChampkind7- chip? This video demonstrates one big chip! These are merely my responses to the unfounded and otherwise ignorant rants that trounce CRNA's. I do agree with you however, some of us (and the trend is worsening) are not equipped for anesth school in the first place. Schools must produce full service providers.
Megaanesthetist 2 weeks ago
I dont have to be careful because I respect you guys. I honestly think that a CRNA with enough experience (ten years?) and is continuously furthering their education could safely provide a solo anesthetic. My problem is with nurses who go straight to the ICU after nursing school, spend a year there, go straight off to CRNA school and then think they can immediately run their own cases. The bell curve is far wider amongst nurses than doctors. If you guys want to practice solo straight out y
MrChampkind7 2 weeks ago
@MrChampkind7 Yes I fully agree that they should always want to practice with others first. A new grad should always seek a seasoned CRNA or a seasoned MDA to practice with. Solo practice for new grads are not the way and I think it would be less scary for them too. Taking care of a sick pt alone is very scary- even MDs consult each other on the same cases, so why wouldn't we do the same?
AngelOne11 2 weeks ago
and notice how the dipshit murse with a giant chip on his shoulder didnt read a word of what I wrote...facts are facts sally and ive prsented them...dispute a single one
MrChampkind7 2 weeks ago
Notice how the pompous windbags defend their unfounded positions with filibustering diatribes. Me thinks thou doth protest too much. I've done more AAA's and thoracoabdominals as a sole provider than I can even state. You need to learn your history and get educated if you want to have a legitimate debate based on facts and science.
Megaanesthetist 2 weeks ago
Finally, the only thing that can substitute for a medical education is experience. Although an experienced CRNA would not have the same qualifications as a board certified anesthesiologist as suggested by an earlier poster, they may be equally capable. One to two years providing nursing care in an ICU and two years of CRNA school is not enough experience to provide a solo anesthetic. It is arrogant and oblivious to state otherwise. The eyes cannot see what the mind does not know.
MrChampkind7 2 weeks ago
@MrChampkind7 I can c that you're careful in not insulting us. I appreciate your approach in trying to speak logically. But the point that you are missing is that education isn't limited to school only. I continuously read/study and spend most of my time educating myself on stuff that I need to know to take excellent care of my patients. Education is free and limitless for all. It's not limited to schools only. There are cases that medical docs couldn't answer but I did b/c I study all the time.
AngelOne11 2 weeks ago
Three, one year of ICU nursing experience taking care of two patients at a time is no small task, however it is not the same as the time an anesthesia resident spends in the ICU taking care of twenty five to thirty patients at a time. The fact that a resident placates your wishes to do something for a patient and writes orders you ask for does not mean that the resident was not going to write those orders in the first place, it means they trust you with their patient.
MrChampkind7 2 weeks ago
Clearly you dont have much respect for medical education but we do spend four undergraduate years taking advanced chemistry, biology, organic chemistry, and physics to prepare us for the gauntlet of medical school. The first two years of medical school are spent learning the pathophysiology the patients on the operating table are suffering from, the next two years are spent as an introduction on how these patients are treated. To equate nursing school to this experience is ridiculous.
MrChampkind7 2 weeks ago
Two, learning to do the same procedures is not the same as learning why youre doing those procedures. This is the largest difference between your four years of undergraduate nursing education and the four years of postgraduate education of medical school. You learn what and how to do things. We learn why. This cannot be understated. The reasoning behind why we do what we do is the single most difficult and important aspect of medicine. Anesthesia is not the job of a technician.
MrChampkind7 2 weeks ago
The only way to truly compare outcomes between the two groups would be to perform a double blinded, randomized study (the best kind of study that can be done, but Im sure you already knew that) where similar cases were given to each of the groups. For example, a CRNA would provide the anesthesia for a AAA repair and an anesthesiologist would not be allowed to assist in the case. Obviously, this is completely unethical, would never be approved by an IRB, will not and should not happen.
MrChampkind7 2 weeks ago
The thoughtful, elegant response of ellkant reveals exactly why the vast majority of, and especially the newbies, require supervision by an anesthesiologist. One, comparing the deaths and injuries of the 15 opt outs is comparing apples to oranges. Low acuity cases done in surgicenters by independent CRNAs do not equate to AAA's and liver transplants done in university hospitals by anesthesiologists should not and will not reveal similar outcomes.
MrChampkind7 2 weeks ago
Sounds like this guy got pissed off at work, no?
MPSecare 2 weeks ago
Look into how many deaths and injuries there have been in the 15 opt out states since the implementation of the new law. Educate yourselves.
ellkant 2 weeks ago
@ellkant YOU ARE AWESOME <3
Well said :)
AngelOne11 2 weeks ago
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ellkant 2 weeks ago
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ellkant 2 weeks ago
In CRNA school I undergo the same training that you do for anesthesia, I learn to line patients, place pulmonary artery catheters, arterial lines, intubate, trach, monitor patients under all types of anesthesia, nerve blocs, etc. while in every clinical specialty, all while still possessing my very well practiced assessment skills, monitoring skills, and impressive bedside manner- all things that lead to more patients requesting CRNAs for their surgical procedures.
ellkant 2 weeks ago
Then, when you doctors are going through your residency and spending a whole EIGHT WEEKS in each specialty, don't forget that I spent two years in the critical care setting taking care of my own sick patients, running my own codes, resuscitating my own patients, and telling my RESIDENTS what orders I need written, although I have already carried them out.
ellkant 2 weeks ago
Furthermore, in all of the ORs that I have spent time- I have never seen one anesthesiologist sitting and watching what the CRNA does. Sure, MD's go through 4 years of medical school- I also went through four years of nursing school where I actually had clinicals and learned not only pathophysiology and the medicine behind every condition, but I also got to have hands-on training.
ellkant 2 weeks ago
this is disgusting. first of all, you can't go to crna school after receiving a "nursing degree" in 2 years. so theres four years of education, an education that was just ranked the most difficult undergraduate degree to obtain, sorry pre-med people. Another thing, for those of you who think CRNAs need supervision because we are incapable, review the laws...its for reimbursement and billing purposes.
ellkant 2 weeks ago
MD for life
nvkulk 3 weeks ago
This DrSuperSixSevenScatface guy has delusions of grandeur for certain.
RaymondLikesMen 3 weeks ago 5
@SheWhoFeels of course they can and always have. Are there no ASA 4's in the 70% of hospitals where CRNA's are the sole providers? How about in combat and trauma? Most of us have years of experience in SICU/ trauma before even applying. Of particular note: ASA status is a trumped-up classification system by The A$A merely to determine how much to bill. I am not a mber of ASA, nor do I give a rat's ass how that organization classifies my pts.
Megaanesthetist 3 weeks ago
@Megaanesthetist: Wait, CRNA's can take ASA 3 cases? I thought they could only take 1 & 2.
SheWhoFeels 3 weeks ago
@DrSuperSixSeven As I was reading your comments, to get understanding of your logic for having so much hate for CRNAs, I find you Freaking Annoying and very Childish in your thought patterns. You need a shrink AND a proctologist STAT.
AngelOne11 3 weeks ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
omg fucking retards posting and arguing in the comments. Healthcare is a unique field where, culturally, only MD are considered doctors. I'm a doctorate prepared biologist at a hospital but I don't go by Dr. because it just sounds dumb and looks like I'm trying to inflate my ego. However, if I was in acadamia, it would be perfectly acceptable to use the title. The same thing applies to nursing doctorates, its a cultural thing. Take your paycheck every two weeks and move on with your lives.
Bloop123Bleep 3 weeks ago
@AngelOne11 not sure where you are practicing or how much experience you have but the comment that CRNA's have no or less responsibility or liability is preposterous. I have the same 1million/3million policy as the ologists and have been a defendant. As far as our pts being "less sick" I guess there are no A$A 4's in the 70% of hospitals where CRNA's are the sole providers.
Megaanesthetist 3 weeks ago
BTW I agree with you that the success rate of CRNA is probably based on the fact that the majority of CRNAs handle less complex cases than an anesthesiologist. I recall saying that before I watched your vid. But I don't forget a CRNA teaching PNB for eyes in Florida university to MDs. Now that tells you that not all are the same. There are outstanding CRNAs and bad MDs. Not all the same and generalization is dangerous.
AngelOne11 3 weeks ago
Why the anger and animosity towards CRNAs? Are you worried that you won't have place to practice? There is enough of money all over the world to be made. Just be open and receptive to it. If you are living in the US, then you know that there is enough wealth to go around and your eyes shouldn't be on my pie. You have your OWN. Just open up and receive it. No need to fight and express hate. Focus on making money by providing outstanding services and research. You won't go poor I promise you this.
AngelOne11 3 weeks ago
Correction, i reversed the stats. 37 (not 35) states DO NOT require any supervision whatsoever. The remaining 12 require CRNA supervision by physicians other than anesthesiologists. So a dentist can supervise a CRNA. Thats a kick in the crotch to both docs and CRNA's. What a joke. The whole battle is driven by greed and nothing else.
Megaanesthetist 4 weeks ago
Correction... 38 states DO NOT require supervision, direction, presence or whatever the bullshit term. The remaining 12 require supervision of nurse anesthetists by physicians other than anesthesiologists. So in 12 stats a Dentist can "supervise" an anesthetic administered by a CRNA. That's a real kick in the crotch to both docs and CRNA's alike.
Megaanesthetist 4 weeks ago
@jamaggik I know EXACTLY what I am speaking of. Yes, the majority of states (35 to be exact) require CRNA supervision by a PHYSICIAN- as it had always been since Nurses at the mayo clinic began to develop and ultimately pioneer the art of anesthesia. I reiterate- IT IS Not A REQUIREMENT IN ANY STATE FOR AN ANESTHESIOLOGIST TO SUPERVISE A CRNA. What a colossal waste of the ever-shrinking healthcare dollar that would be. No?
Megaanesthetist 4 weeks ago
These comments are definitely worth staying up late to read. I'm getting more of a laugh from these than I do from sitcoms.
NashvilleKildCountry 1 month ago
Some hospitals (mainly urban hospitals) have policies that mandate supervision of CRNA's as a means to maximize profits not because it is any less safe for a CRNA to deliver an anesthetic. If CRNA's need to be supervised, why is it NOT a requirement by a single state? Respectfully.
Megaanesthetist 1 month ago
@Megaanesthetist you have no idea what you speak about, the overwhelming numbers of states do require crnas to be supervised by physicians; either the surgeon or the anesthesiologist
jamaggik 4 weeks ago
....in fact all states have the power to opt out of the Medicare supervision requirements of CRNA's. 16 have already exercised that option. NP's are also not trained to function independently as CRNA's are for upon graduation, statistically, they will.
Megaanesthetist 1 month ago
@Megaanesthetist All states require nurses to be supervised by MDs ... whether they are anesthesiologists or surgeons so u are never practicing alone .... so in a "rural area" if an airway is lost or a patient has a bad outcome then its on the surgeons neck ... u have no idea what u r talking about
akmd114379 3 days ago
@akmd114379 how can you opine that CRNA's need to be supervised when in over 70% of rural hospitals they are the sole providers of anesthesia. There are HUGE differences bet CRNA's and NP's. Primarily NP's practice "medicine lite" as "physician extenders" whereas the practice of anesthesia is entirely different. The docs are now referring to CRNA's as same in order to protect their financial interests.
Megaanesthetist 1 month ago
I supervise CRNAs in my practice and have several things to say. First off the CRNAs I work with are very intelligent and 90% of the time I go to the OR just because in the hospitals I'm at it is required. The CRNAs never have told me that I don't need to be supervised. However some CRNAs believe this and that is wrong. It is equivalent to a NP who has just as much training as a CRNA in their field saying they can practice without an MD. Bottom line if you want to be a doctor go to med school.
akmd114379 1 month ago
This has been flagged as spam show
First of all, it's 4 years of Nursing school, not 2, and a minimum of 2 years of ICU experience, not 1; with many applicants having far more due to the competitiveness of the program. The same books are used in CRNA school as are by Anesthesia residents... So why is it that the CRNA is the moron?? He/She is actually much smarter; for working 3 days a week, paying 3k insurance, not 25+, and having a life... Fucking loser that made this, go OD on Propofol like Michael jackson.
drunkchemist 1 month ago
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drunkchemist 1 month ago
A doctor nurse ! HAHAHA
leddhed 1 month ago
When reading these comments I picture:
1.) a bunch of butthurt RNs and CRNAs complaining because a doctor talked some shit about having more knowledge and training
2.) a tool who thinks he is more intelligent/superior than the vast majority of people only because he is paid well and works a job that requires tons of training.
3.) Get a life people, the man is just venting about work and voicing his opinion.
Bloop123Bleep 1 month ago
@fmendoza8120. Policies and Procedures manuals, fuzzy thoughts, caring, and good intentions will not help a whit, when your ASA 4 patient takes a multi system dump on your table.
LightSpeedOne 1 month ago
I am an RT, I work as an Anesthesia Assisstant. My wife is an R5 Anesthesia resident. I left nursing to do RT because I wanted to use my brain more, and My wife and I have been together since before med school. When my wife talks anesthesia, I STFU and listen. 9 years of training have transformed her, and stuffed more knowledge into her head, than I could ever imagine. We are in Canada, so no RNAs. Funny vid, exactly why I left nursing.
LightSpeedOne 1 month ago
Hey DrSuperSixSeven, you're so cool... I'd love to see you actually say that to a CRNA and get your ass whooped. You douche bag... most relationships between CRNA's and MD's are pretty solid and respectful. Get your head out of your ass. I have a feeling your really insecure with your liscence if you have to make a video like this.
Grow up =)
Salicislim 1 month ago
I for one will not be pursuing an MD in anesthesiology because of this ridiculous video. I'm afraid my head will grow out of proportion such as the character in this video. It's not about the money, or who has the bigger dick, it's about helping others, period!
fmendoza8120 1 month ago
Nurses are no substitute for doctors
In the UK we have very few, I mean less than 50 equivalent of CNRA
As a CNRA do you even learn about pharmokinetics, physiology, physics
I'd love to see you sit an anaesthesia exam
SuperJohnnyuk 1 month ago
@SuperJohnnyuk oh my God! Don't tell me you didn't learn how to spell but they let you be a Doctor! Smh!
mrindia1 1 month ago
After I watched the video, having seen the ratio of the like/dislike bar, I couldn't help but cringe before glancing down at the comments. I had a good anticipation of the flame-war I was about to witness, and I wasn't disappointed. You guys have been fighting like badgers for almost a year now over the size of your intellectual egos, and it has been very entertaining to read snippets of that history.
MaxwellSDSU 1 month ago
Okay... So I'm in CRNA school... I have the upmost respect for anesthesiologist.. Really I do... I understand that you all have an MD... I'm getting my doctorate though... And if you (physicians) give me crap, then I'll give it right back to you. And that goes for everyone in the hospital.. Grow up. All of you. Really... Arguing on YouTube... You all are so immature... It's about the patient regardless of what school you went to... When it comes down to it, each of us have the same goal. Get th
Salicislim 1 month ago
You will be a doctor, just not an MD. Still a doctor, though.
luminglas 1 month ago
@luminglas
A doctor of nursing? Nobody is dumb enough to mistake an individual with that degree for a doctor.
DrSuperSixSeven 1 month ago
Comment removed
mrindia1 1 month ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@DrSuperSixSeven I have a strong feeling at the end you are just going to say..."Well...I am a dentist but thats still a doctor"...piss off Dr. Faggot!
mrindia1 1 month ago
That being said, the above video is tasteless and inflammatory; it is sadly misrepresentative of the respectful and professional relationship that generally exists between anesthesiologists and nurse anesthetists. Both are integral components of the anesthesia care team, where they individually serve a unique and important role. It is a dis-service that the level of cooperation, conversation, and understanding between this tightly-knit unit should be portrayed to the public in this manner.
gasman034 2 months ago 9
@gasman034
Please. They are physician extenders. Every patient, even the ASA 1 eighteen year-old college athlete having a knee scope benefits from having an anesthesiologist handling his case, from a safety standpoint in case anything goes wrong. Unforseen, adverse reactions to anesthesia as well as previously undiagnosed health problems that suddenly and unexpectedly affect the anesthetic can and do occur. CRNAs exist because it’s too expensive to staff every case with an anesthesiologist
DrSuperSixSeven 2 months ago
Kindly do not misinterpret or misrespresent these statements. I have great respect for nurse anesthetists. Without them, I would not be able to perform my job as well as I can today. In short,they permit me the latitude to focus my clinical skills and knowledge base where they are needed most. This is a tremendously valuable service, and it should not be discounted in any sense. I respect them as practitioners and count several of them as my personal friends.
gasman034 2 months ago
In all of these aspects, there is a crystal-clear distinction between anesthesiologists and nurse anesthetists. Period. Anyone who is saying something that deviates from this undeniable truth is spreading misinformation and/or outright lies.
gasman034 2 months ago
There are four primary differences between nurse anesthetists and physician anesthesiologists: depth and breadth of knowledge base, versatility in clinical skills and decision-making processes, level of ethical and legal responsibility of patient-care assumed, and quantity and quality of original contributions to the basic- and clinical-science of anesthesiology.
gasman034 2 months ago
@gasman034
Let me add a fifth difference - and this is a biggie. CRNAs may be the cream of the nursing crop, but they’re still nurses, and it should be noted that the kinds of students who go into nursing aren’t exactly the most intellectually gifted, i.e. the way medical students tend to be. Put another way, anesthesiologists are almost universally produced from a much higher quality of raw material. Add to that the superior training we have, and the difference between us and CRNAs is huge
DrSuperSixSeven 2 months ago
@DrSuperSixSeven hey dr a-hole, unless you went to nursing school, stop making rash comments about nurses, ok. You sound like an insecure ass. The best doctors I know can utilize help from other team members, not just diss them. Why you are such a dick head? Stop dissing people who are helping you with your patients. My uncle is the head of the cardiology department (an MD) and he's not even half of a dick as you.
kht124 1 month ago
@DrSuperSixSeven Oh, give me a break. There are plenty of legitimate differences between MDs and CRNAs.
But the ol' docs are inherently smarter than nurses is old and dated in an economy where many people are anxious to find stable work and unwilling or unable to take on massive student loan debt. Throw in the desire to start a family or have anything resembling a social life in the next eight years and you're left with plenty of extremely intelligent people who CHOSE nursing over medicine.
dirtyhippiegirl1 1 month ago 5
@dirtyhippiegirl1
And yet, there are more people applying to medical school than ever.
Exceedingly few people CHOOSE nursing over medicine because they are dissimilar professions. Nursing is not “medicine-lite”. Nursing is nursing. Nurses don’t have the same training as physicians do....and quite frankly, neither do mid-level nurses. Your claim that many would-be medical students opt for nursing because of social factors is ludicrous.
DrSuperSixSeven 1 month ago
@DrSuperSixSeven
And yet, there are also people applying to nursing school more than ever, as well.
I'm a nurse, and it annoys me whenever I have this conversation with people:
"I'm going to get my BSN and then become a CRNA!"
"...why not go to medical school instead?"
"Because that's too hard/couldn't get the grades/etc."
I went to nursing school to be a nurse. Although I seriously doubt that you actually know what nurses really do..
I've known several people who did CHOOSE nursing
dirtyhippiegirl1 4 weeks ago
over medicine. I've known a few long-time nurses who are bitter, now, because they were forced into nursing (old old nurses because they were women, in fact). And, at least in my experience, choosing nursing over medicine is not ludicrous at all. Perhaps you come from a more well-off family or made better decisions early on about having a family/children/etc.
dirtyhippiegirl1 4 weeks ago
@dirtyhippiegirl1 Well said!!
mrindia1 1 month ago
@dirtyhippiegirl1 No one is disputing that there are intelligent people who go into all fields of nursing, nor does anyone blame you for choosing nursing for all the (very legitimate) reasons that you mention. Just understand that decisions have consequences, and when choosing to get a CRNA education you do NOT get the same training it takes to become a board certified MD anesthesiologist. No one has a problem with CRNAs except when they try to be doctors.
topperswim 2 weeks ago
@dirtyhippiegirl1
That argument sounds good, but the facts don’t support it. Medical school admission continues to be among the most (if not THE most) competitive professional school to get into. People who are interested in being doctors aren’t going to find satisfaction in being a mid-level provider unless they are forced into it (i.e. by being unable to get into medical school). Most people who go to nursing school didn’t have the grades or the drive (or both) to go to medical school.
DrSuperSixSeven 2 weeks ago
@DrSuperSixSeven Define superior training when you just said you know shit about CRNA programs? You are a doctor...CRNAs are nurses...but they do the same shit!
mrindia1 1 month ago
@DrSuperSixSeven only 1/3 of doctors have an iq higher than mine, and i am CHOOSING to be a nurse
trilogyfilm 1 month ago 3
@trilogyfilm honestly it is really the smartest choice when it comes to life style and comfort. I choose nursing for the same reason. I don't want to be sleep deprived and lash out on nurses or loved ones. I like my shifts and when I am done, I go home- no calls, overnights, or legal responsibilities while making decent living. Smart choice!
AngelOne11 3 weeks ago
@DrSuperSixSeven cream of the crop? are you kidding me? I don't have a god complex, would like to have a family one day and actually care about people. I don't need to become part of the physician-patient disconnect we see all to often. Where physicians can't even be bothered to offer a minimal explanation for any of the diagnoses you place upon them. I think intellectually gifted in your definition is synonymous with socially retarded
dennis09x 3 weeks ago
I provide care in the OR, ED, PACU, ICU, labor suite, MRI suite, cardiology suite, EP, and provide acute pain management for the inpatient floor. At one point, our small group of anesthesiologists provided full time medical (physician) coverage to the med/surg ICU for over 12 consecutive months on our post-call days, and outcomes were never better there. How many CRNAs can say they can do all this? None. Period.
gasman034 2 months ago
Anesthesiologists (in general) are more skilled and nuanced in the medical practice of anesthesiology (emphasis on the phrase 'medical practice') than nurse anesthetists (in general). Period. Patient has an INR of 4 and they need a central line-->they call me. Patient is 200kg, in respiratory distress, and in dire need of intubation-->they call me. Patient goes into V-tach in the PACU-->they call me. Not the anesthetist. All the time. Every time.
gasman034 2 months ago
For any big cases (AAAs, pneumonectomy, hearts) our hospital staffs anesthesiologists only. The CRNAs would be chewed up and spit out in minutes in these cases if they were solo. I'm sorry, but it's true. I have placed well over one thousand central lines, five hundred PA catheters, hundreds of peripheral nerve blocks, over one thousand thoracic and lumbar epidurals, probably a thousand+ art lines. Taken care of airway nightmares you wouldn't believe. Testamer and regular practitioner of TEE.
gasman034 2 months ago
During a medically-directed case, my response time is less than sixty seconds at all times. When the sh** is hitting the fan, I come in, the CRNA steps back (against the wall), and I fix the situation. Period. It's not a rub against CRNAs. They provide a very valuable service as physician extenders. But, in my humble opinion and real-world experience, they just don't have the mind-set to take over a situation and make the critical interventions when it really counts.
gasman034 2 months ago
Funny video... Funnier conversations. I'm a private-practice anesthesiologist with six years experience both medically directing nurse anesthetists and performing cases solo. I've personally seen the good, the bad, and the ugly from both sides of the degree hierarchy. The bottom line is this: when the patient is sick, I mean really sick, CRNAs just don't stack up. Physician basic science knowledge, clinical knowledge, and clinical skill level is superior. Period.
gasman034 2 months ago 2
FINALLY some CLARITY in this world...these fucking RNs are taking over.......how dare they even think they desereve to make half of what we make?? They take the EASY way out in life and then want the same salary and be given the same respect...get the fuck outta here...in the 1960's even when an INTERN would walk the halls ALL the nurses would stand up and say 'hello, Doctor'' because that's when they used to have respect..now they are just dirt
youngdoctor84 2 months ago
Nurse anesthetist vs. anesthesiologist - not much to debate. They both provide the same care for equally acute procedures regardless of patient acuity @ UC Irvine Medical Center (trauma 1 center and Magnet Hospital). :) live laugh love
ernomarci 2 months ago
@ernomarci
There are anesthesiologists there. Says it on their website: "At UC Irvine Medical Center, board-certified or -eligible physicians personally provide or medically direct complete anesthetic care during all surgical procedures."
DrSuperSixSeven 2 months ago
In a nutshell, a good reason one may want to become an CRNA is 1. takes less schooling. and 2. Good pay. DrSuperSixSeven just seems like a douche who has no life, spending his time bashing on CRNA's. I have been viewing various vidos and it seems Mr.DrSuperFaggot has something to say in each one. The funny thing is no one cares what you have to say, it doesnt mak a differe, it wont make a difference. So, just go back to watching gay porn in your basement, and quite trolling.
mega1tennis 2 months ago 2
@dbizzler I'm a Jew and proud of it. So mind your business. SixSeven lives up to our wretched stereotypes. This is between me and the little pussy man. I'd love to meet you SixSeven.
Megaanesthetist 2 months ago
eaaaaaaaaaaaasy there hitler...divert some xanax
dbizzler 2 months ago
@DrSuperSixSeven not a homophobe nor racist. I just know a Jew bastard when I see one. NO ONE likes one of those. I know an insecure, immature, blow-hard when I see one too. poor little pussyboy. Looks like everyone has you pegged. I laugh that you feel as though the bullshit education you get that's completely unrelated to anesthesia qualifies you as a superior practitioner. So naive. My brother has degrees in physics economics and law. I guess he would be a better anesthesia provider too. Hah
Megaanesthetist 2 months ago
@DrSuperSixSeven What you say about our military is a fuckin flat out disgrace. It is a comment that comes from an immature, over-privileged snot nosed punk that has no clue About anything accept his little faggitty Affairs. I have friends that are war veterans how dare you, you motherfucking little Jew bastard!! Their equipment sucks because our... My government is cheap... Not because they are expendable. I cringe for you. You fucking scumbag lower life form.
Megaanesthetist 2 months ago
@Megaanesthetist
Gives me a warm fuzzy feeling to know that our military and group of nurse-anesthetists consists of racist, homophobic individuals like this nurse. Yeah, they definitely go for individuals of the highest quality! LOL
What I say about the military is true. To Uncle Sam, soldiers aren’t important enough to spend money on a full staff of anesthesiologists. Hence, they hire a hell of a lot of CRNAs. The standards are much lower for health care in the military.
DrSuperSixSeven 2 months ago
This is great! DickoSuperSixSeven's insecurity runs so deep. hahahahahahahahahaha
0morphine0 2 months ago
I lave how this cock sucker SixSeven thinks he knows everything. I've been providing anesthesia care in All settings for 15 yrs. Your training is no different than mine accept you studied botany among many other superfluous 3 credit courses. Lastly, as I stated,I will categorically destroy you in an academic debate and clinically, you are not even in the same universe. You know this an that is why you post such atrocious comments.
Megaanesthetist 2 months ago
@Megaanesthetist
And I suppose you know they’re “superflulous” because you have completed all of them yourself as part of your four years of medical school and have determined that they have not contributed to your task of providing anesthesia?
No?
Then shut the fuck up.
DrSuperSixSeven 2 months ago
We all know who the TRUE anesthesiologists are. CRNAs baby!!!!!!!!!!!! Since the Civil War. Outside of the facts you're just wish you were one. I love being a CRNA. I'll be around for so long practicing and making the big bucks. I love it. I love it. I'll just have to continue dealing with the wannabee MDAs. Oh well, can't have it all I guess. Loser!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! No matter what you say, I'll be here for a long time!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I love it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
0morphine0 2 months ago
@0morphine0
I take it by the number of exclamation points that you’re really serious about your comments?
Making the big bucks, you say? CRNAs average around $150k. I make almost three times that.
DrSuperSixSeven 2 months ago
@shorthand I mentioned all that a few posts back. I reiterate that in 75% of rural hospitals, crna's are the sole anesthesia providers. That number is even higher in the military. I guess our brave servicemen and servicewomen are just expendable to this snot-nosed punk. He is blasphemous. I cringe for him.
Megaanesthetist 2 months ago
@Megaanesthetist
You hit the nail right on the head, buddy. Our servicemen and servicewomen ARE expendable to everyone, including the government. It is a universally accepted fact that they are skimped on in every aspect of their association with our government, from body armor to health care.
CRNAs are the sole providers in rural hospitals because rural hospitals don’t treat the sickest patients. Those patients get sent out to hospitals that have, among other things, anesthesiologists.
DrSuperSixSeven 2 months ago