Why do Intelligent People Still Believe in Religion? 37b: Framing part 2

[MacNutz2]

You get an oxytocin spike from petting a dog, the dog gets a corresponding spike.:)

[Miryr]

What would your opinion be on people who are purposefully trying to be less empathetic, not because of malice but merely because they desire to be the most rational they can possibly be?

[anubis2814]

@Miryr I used to be over empathic which caused me depression. How is your empathy blocking your rationality?

[Miryr]

@anubis2814 Well, in my case, I've never really been that empathetic in the first place and then I've developed the idea that one should always try to be as rational as possible. The reason for this is that I had bad experiences in my childhood with people who were guided by emotions. As a consequence of this, I've come to see emotions as a weakness and thus really they should only be taken into account whenever deciding your end goal, not the process by which you will reach it.

[Miryr]

@anubis2814 However, while it does ostracise you from a lot f human interaction I consider myself to be a happy man. If I'm not in a stressful situation I can even consider myself THE happiest man. So, I'm really curious as to why people seem to feel the need to follow moral codes that block their dreams and desires.

In either case, you seemed to give me the impression that you actually went to great pains to achieve more empathy. So, I'm genuinely stumped by such a desire.

[anubis2814]

@Miryr I see your point and no I never tried to gain more empathy I just naturally had it, or perhaps it became an asperger obsession we are known to have because I could get empathy in a round about way. I would see how nature was being destroyed, people around the world were starving. As a Christians I believed so many people I knew were going to hell. Gave me serious depression. That is really the only emotion that effected me, I was meticulous in logic.

[anubis2814]

@anubis2814 (cont) I actually had to work very hard to be less empathic so I wouldn't be crippled by my depression and so I could actually do something. I was also quite a downer to a lot of people obsessed with the crappy state of the world and people suffering.

[Miryr]

@anubis2814 Correct me if I'm wrong, but people with asperger's fail to see social cues and as a consequence tend to feel ostracised. How does that evolve into an empathetic personality?

Nonetheless, I think I may be believing too much in the stereotypes...

[anubis2814]

@Miryr It really all comes down to what our personal obsessions are. If empathy is well explained to us we can learn to become obsessed, if its merits are not explained it may not develop. And yes my obsession with empathy ostracized me as well. as i was a real downer to talk to talking about how much the world sucks. you are not at all wrong with your stereotype.

[Heretikus]

i think you watched the TED talk...

[TheAtheistPaladin]

I am making a bottle water like for the rich, and guess what the secrete ingredient will be?

[billflowers]

Good video, I could follow this one without getting too distracted by reading the words. maybe a few more pictures without any words but relating to what you say. i'm only critiquing because i think you have a really good message in this series and the videos are good but could be great.

[1empathy]

interesting . . . . if true

[bjam89]

oh great fellow Aspie that has shrink powers i have a question for you, i have a low EQ but have read many books to learn to pick up the clues that people give off so in a way i pick up signs better now then i would naturally (and i most recall what those signs in that combo means) does this mean my EQ has risen or am i just cheating the tests?

[anubis2814]

@bjam89 Picking up cues is essential to having empathy. After reading another book, besides my mother's cultivation of emotion (not including the constant spankings) I'm wondering if my personal capability with empathy and high EQ may have been effected by my reading other cues via one of the many forms of synthesia out there as I'm great in reading people in some areas but am completely blind in others. You aren't cheating the system, you are laying the essential groundwork for empathy

[bjam89]

@anubis2814 ah good to know i have been feeling kind of bad since the last empathy test i did i scored 20 points higher then the one before that and all as i did what i have learned to do not what my instincts told me, my goal is to one day not try to cheer up someone who is crying due to happiness and not yell at the person that made the crying person cry, it might be a low goal but just this year i have done that 4 times so to me it is a high goal

[anubis2814]

@bjam89 Its a long hard struggle to understand neurotypicals, they are kinda irrational, but you will get there haha.

[Laughingblades]

Free Cat at 2:20 is wrong and hilarious.

I'm a sociopath but I'm not nearly as the media would lead you to think, you don't need Oxytocin to have philosophy and reciprocity based morality and form healthy partnerships. I'm a terrible example but there are good examples of successful sociopaths out there.

[Zaunstar]

Very good, as always. One thing though, you mentioned greater trust between people in wealthier countries. I believe, if you are referring to the TED talk I saw recently, that the data seems to show that trust is higher in countries with a SMALLER income disparity, and that cuts across both wealthier and less wealthy countries.

[anubis2814]

@Zaunstar Very true, America is having a decline in trust which is a great way for politicians to pit us against each other. It also is reducing our greatness.

[MacNutz2]

@Zaunstar I think you make an extremely important distinction regarding the depth and width of income disparity.

[MrStillmans]

The SOCIOPATH picture at 2:26...haven't I seen her on a particularly bad news program somewhere??

[SEThatered]

Excellent video, goodsir!

I'd add that those 5% usually end up as cult leaders/politicians

(in 3 words: they seek power)

"Normal" people feel secure and strong enough to stand on their own.

Those oxytocin-deprived 5% always feel insecure and threatened by everything and thus, seek power to "protect themselves".

So sadly, power always attracts the most corrupted and paranoid individuals...

[wwickeddogg]

I can't believe they put Oxytocin in the drinking water

[anubis2814]

@wwickeddogg Lol are you trying to create a new conspiracy theory? Oxytocin is actually very fragile and breaks down quickly at room temperature. We'd all be a lot happier though if they could.

[wwickeddogg]

@anubis2814 Oh well, maybe they should only be doing it in prisons

[anubis2814]

@wwickeddogg A snort of oxytocin for prisoners would actually not be a bad idea. They've shown that in areas of naturally occurring low level lithium in the water, murder rates are down.

[wwickeddogg]

@anubis2814 You've got my vote.

[George4943]

The use of the Parent Frame is the Two Party System of the US. The Father is the Republican Party. The Mother is the Democrat Party. They take turns ruling. They both agree, though, that strong rules make a strong family.

...

The Tea Party and Occupy Everywhere movements are the Rebellious Teens.

...

Remember, though that today's teens are the leaders the day after tomorrow.

...

"Framing" is used in all political ads! The worker- or small businessman- or poor- child needs special help.

[George4943]

@6:38 you nailed it. The Theory of Faith needs to be examined Scientifically!

The experiment is rather simple involving a delightful drink while having Mark 16 9-20 read aloud.

Oh? You think this was a later addition? So you won't drink the sulfuric acid? Your Faith in the truth of the whole Bible wavers. Why wouldn't a God inspire the last author (so corrections can be made), not the first! Oh, ye of little faith, here... drink.

[Schneboll]

You paint up scientists and the religious a bit too black and white. Even non-religious, say; politicians and ordinary people wont listen to reason or evidence at times, because some people have a bias or wont believe a non-authority figure..

And I remember having a short discussion with you about a Potholer54 video if you remember. Although you did prove you are a big person and admitted an ungrounded bias. :)

[anubis2814]

@Schneboll We are all aiming toward anti-bias. I will admit that many in the scientific community are irrational, but science itself is a self correcting system. "Science if the greatest thing mankind has created and if not, science will fix that." - Bill Nye

[Schneboll]

@anubis2814 Science in it self might be a self-correcting system. But people are not always attuned to listen and learn.

[TheJeremyKentBGross]

I am noticing a delayed correlation between this sub and my sub to TED. You should add bibliographies to the ends of your vids for all the same reasons as if they were academic papers, and retroactively too as many topics you have touched i would have liked to know more about from the original source.

[anubis2814]

@TheJeremyKentBGross I have posted them in the bottom bar, though when this gets into book form I will have a much more extensive bibliography.

[blurglide]

That was fascinating. I'd like to hear more about the key words to use and avoid when explaining science to the religious. Where is the study on that?

[anubis2814]

@blurglide I actually have to ask some friends at CFI where the study is located. He's a scientist himself or I wouldn't have used the study in the video.

[GeatMaster]

"your own words" what like neologisms?

[LiberalsUtopian]

Video host is a retard. There is a church 5 miles from my house. Religion exists.

[SpecialPioneerSmerf]

@LiberalsUtopian Holy fuck your an idiot!

[LiberalsUtopian]

@SpecialPioneerSmerf So you don't believe there is religion then?

[anubis2814]

@LiberalsUtopian Religion exists, it has had several thousand years to poison the minds, even if it was for good reason.  Science and evidence now show religion to be hollow. With the comment you made in the last video you are nothing but a troll.

[LiberalsUtopian]

@anubis2814 So then, you still believe in evolution.

[anubis2814]

@LiberalsUtopian I can't believe in anything. That would indicate a lack of evidence. What I am is convinced of evolution by the insurmountable piles of evidence you are probably completely ignorant of. Biology and any related field makes no sense without the theory of natural selection of random mutations. Of course to understand this you have to actually study biology and what scientists are saying instead of the regurgitated ignorant parody the religious spout.

[LiberalsUtopian]

@anubis2814 Even if everything religion says is wrong it still exists. So you should believe in religion.

[anubis2814]

@LiberalsUtopian That is a moot point and you know it. If you mean a religion defined as a belief without evidence exists in the minds of people then yes I belief that religion exists. But I never said that religion does not exist. You are trolling

[LiberalsUtopian]

@anubis2814 "Why do Intelligent People Still Believe in Religion? "

What you mean is that you don't believe in god. but religion exists. There is a bible. Anyone who does not believe in religion is not intelligent.

[anubis2814]

@LiberalsUtopian So you are being an asshole and a literalist got it. To believe in something has multiple meanings jackass. Just a hypothetical, I believe my co-worker exists, do I believe in him when he tells me he partied with Led Zeppelin, or do I believe in him to take a bullet for me? Those are completely different, meanings. Dictionaries have numbers with multiple meanings for words for a reason.

[LiberalsUtopian]

@anubis2814 "and a literalist "

All philosophy is based on exact definitions. its all semantics on the higher level.

[anubis2814]

@LiberalsUtopian and you are no where near the higher level if you are petty enough to bait.  Philosophy also has its own set of definitions to ensure its exactness, I was speaking in plain English.

[skaboss3178]

@anubis2814 watch that recent ted talk on oxytocin/moral molecule? I love ted talks.

[DINDRAGON]

@anubis2814 Yes but are based on arbitrary axioms.

[LiberalsUtopian]

@anubis2814 Tree of life = tree of evolution Apple = front of brain = knowledge of good and evil = moral accountability.

[anubis2814]

@LiberalsUtopian If you take it as a metaphor its a beautiful idea, which then eliminates the point of Jesus dying, because there was no original sin.

[LiberalsUtopian]

I mean religion.

[LiberalsUtopian]

not really man. Religion was a moderating influence.

[anubis2814]

@LiberalsUtopian As I said, even if it had good reason. It moderated people in the fact that it forced and eradicated people who would not believe and forced them all to believe the same thing or else. Sadly religion also at the same time held a strangle hold on science and inquiry. We now have much better ways of discovering of how the world works than "an ancient book, or a feeling tells me so." We now can find for certain how things work and come up with much better solutions with reality

[LiberalsUtopian]

@anubis2814 If I feel the wind and i feel i need to explain it than that is the start of rational thought.

[PlutoPowered]

Interesting video, especially the parts about Oxytocin and Patriarchy.

[rriverstone1]

I wondered Y my babble thumping landlord can't hear me! And, when it DOES penetrate, he gets threatened, angry and threatening! Now, I know. You're really on to something here, kid. Using regular ppl language ALWAYS works better than high falootin jargon and exclusive rhetoric. I'm in your camp on this discussion and analysis. I find this line of thinking refreshing, exciting and full of hope. I HATE the free cat sign. jeemany crackers! LOL I was EATING! when I saw that!

[PikminDS]

8 hugs a day, huh? I might have to start going into the street with a "Free Hugs" sign to catch up.

[Prplfox]

Really great video. I think I have 7 more hugs to go today

[unassumption]

Empathy is over rated. Cheaters prosper, even if society works better if you're not cheating.

[anubis2814]

@unassumption I would disagree, watch "Nice guys finish first" by dawkins(do a search on you tube. In the short run the do better, in the long run they are shunned, especially if there is a well regulated economy.

[unassumption]

@anubis2814

only in a situation where games are played repeatedly by the same participants, I thought there were a lot of rich people with little empathy but maybe that's because the system isn't regulated well.

[SeanTalksTooMuch]

I especially like how you describe atheist as a step toward anti-bias. You also reference an amazing TED

[djalessandromagno]

Another excellent video!