The Inherent Problems of Christianity - Belief

[ukulelemike]

You are wrong from the start. Example: I read a missionary letter from a man from Nepal. He was born in the Himalayas, far from any Christian influence. He was born and raised to become high priest of the local Hindu system, and it was all he knew. However, he was not satisfied and left as a young adult, turning away from it and seeking the truth. He rejected Muslim, catholic, Buddhism, and eventually found Christ in America. Choice, not environment.

[FireproofAshes]

@ukulelemike This is a rare exception to a rule that is overwhelmingly evident by simply looking at the demographics of different religions. Environment is without a doubt one of the largest contributing factors to the average person's religion.

[ukulelemike]

@FireproofAshes And this is why we have missionaries, why the first church was commanded to , 'go ye into all the world." They went, and the entire known world at the time was evangelized within about 100 years. That many rejected, and still do, and those places have fallen again to paganism is not only not a surprise, it is predicted in scripture, that few there would be that would find it. Even here in this 'Christian' nation, most reject Christianity.

[zenowing]

There are a number of Biblical accounts of people receiving Grace without Jesus. It can easily be argued that this is still possible today, so long as the person in question has responded to God's natural Revelation and is perfect in their ways.

I guess what I'm offering is that your initial premise might have some problems.

Google: Natural Revelation

[deltaxcd]

actually all Christianity is based on idea of chosen nation, so only Jews go to heaven(or rather heaven comes to earth), and nothing else, no mater if they believe or not. Jesus said that himself few times and all old testament is based on that idea.

Jesus specifically told to apostles not to waste time on gentiles because they wont get to gods kingdom anyway ,he even refused to cure nonJews because they are worth no more than animals.

So all Christianity is nothing more that open fraud.

[ssj7warrior]

Also, everyone gets to go to paradise. Romans chapter 6 states that when a person dies their sins are paid for. If their sins are paid for then they get to go to paradise. There is another bible verse, but I forget it, that states if a person doesn't fully understand god that he will judge them on judement day and ask if they deny him or not. If they do, then hell they go. But if god be in front of you would you deny him? No, no one would and then everyone gets to go to paradise.

[FireproofAshes]

@ssj7warrior Anyone that WOULD deny God after dying and confronting Him would clearly have mental issues and not be fit to be judged. :/

Wait, can a soul have mental issues?

[ssj7warrior]

@FireproofAshes It's like everyone gets to go to paradise/heaven no matter the belief system. why can't we all get along then? lol. If a soul can have mental issues then wouldn't that make the creator unfair for making them controlled by him ( controlled because they automatically get to go to heaven) or fair for allowing them to go to a paradise/heaven?

[k0smon]

@FireproofAshes ::: Can the soul have mental issues? Yes, that is the main kind of problem spirits have. Free download "A Wanderer in the Spirit Lands" will tell you more.

[ssj7warrior]

I don't like this, I love it.

[ninjatomaster]

I can't believe how exclusivist these beliefs can be.

[ukulelemike]

@ninjatomaster Exclusivist??? Jesus died for all men, for the sin of the WORLD, and opened the way for all to have eternal life. You're just upset because God only opened one way, through Jesus Christ, and didn't cater to letting everyone do things their own way. Think about it: is it right that Jesus paid the price for sin, but then we are allowed to ignore Him and jump into heaven through faith in Shiva or Joseph Smith or someone else?

[smithbrain]

no no no you got it all wrong god wants everyone to go to heaven. But toy must wirship him though otherwise its off to hell. That whay he sent devine books to the poeple so that they may know him theough them

[warren52nz]

@fidesquaerensintel89 Yes I agree, religion was an obvious first step. Now it's Science's turn. Holding onto religion is futile, it hasn't produced a single useful result in 2,000 years.

But I think Science will always be the method for discovering truth, the input and output will just keep getting more advanced. At what point would we stop calling:

looking at facts developing a hypothesis, testing it then making predictions and having the whole thing peer reviewed

"Science"?

[warren52nz]

@fidesquaerensintel89 "And science came from religious peoples"

That's nonsense. Before the Scientific Method was developed virtually EVERYONE believed in some sort of God because humans have a "need to know" about how things work. How was someone from Christ's time supposed to account for lightning or earthquakes? So saying Science came out of religious people is an obvious statement but the implication is misleading. Science will kill religion eventually because there's nothing supernatural.

[warren52nz]

@fidesquaerensintel89 "then there was a time when you believed in an illusion."

Yes but I'm perfectly OK with accepting my belief was wrong when confronted with new evidence.

The trouble with Theists is that even though there's a vacuum of evidence for their beliefs, they refuse to give them up. When prayers aren't answered they just shrug it off and make up some bullshit excuse. That's not good enough for me. My default position is skepticism. That way I know my beliefs are true.

[warren52nz]

@fidesquaerensintel89 " if naturalism and evolution are both true, then I'm not at fault for holding this worldview"

There is no "fault" grasshopper. You'll do what you do and you'll believe what you believe. Evolution is the great experimenter and Natural Selection will make the final call on the success or failure of your own actions. Not individually but gradually on averages over the whole population over countless generations.

Time will tell. But look where Science has got us so far....

[warren52nz]

@fidesquaerensintel89 If you're suggesting you can't rely on your senses then what's the point of even having this discussion, you may be dreaming the whole thing.

That sort of position is useless in real life. What's useful is believing in things because they work. Jets fly, cars go, heaters heat, prayers fail, God is and always will be undetectable because it doesn't exist.

These are all useful beliefs that have stood the test of time and always will and you can bet your life on them.

[warren52nz]

@fidesquaerensintel89 Because religion is based on pure faith in the total absence of evidence. The exaggerated and over-promised claims are followed up with under-delivered results. Life after death? No evidence. God exists? No evidence. God answers prayers? Demonstrably untrue following many controlled tests? God is everywhere? More like nowhere based on the evidence. God is omniscient? So why did he destroy humanity in the flood and start over? Its just such a load of bullshit its embarrasing

[warren52nz]

@fidesquaerensintel89 I don't believe it's anything like as complicated as that. Just as a new computer is a blank slate for the software that gets installed, the human neurological platform is a highly competent system capable of perceiving, processing and interpreting the world around it. When belief systems are based on observable evidence and theories that produce correct predictions every time one can be almost certain that the beliefs are correct. Which is where religion falls over.

[warren52nz]

@fidesquaerensintel89 "Upon this point we will just have to disagree."

So it's your belief that a newborn baby is a sinner? Nah, that's a completely ridiculous and unsubstantiated belief. How can such innocence have any such burden? My assertion that it's step one of brainwashing makes much more sense.

[warren52nz]

@fidesquaerensintel89 " What I mean is that such a belief in evolutionary naturalism seems to be unwarranted, because your cognitive faculties may not be reliable, due to the processes of evolution"

I've read this several times but I can't get your point. Are you talking about circular reasoning? Can you elaborate?

[warren52nz]

@fidesquaerensintel89 To me the Christian assertion that all humans are born with sin sounds like the classic recipe for brainwashing:

1. Strip them of their self esteem

2. Offer them a way out

& in the case of Christianity

3. Throw in a promise of eternal life (that's completey unverifiable).

If I was going to create a system to indoctrinate the gullible, I'd do it exactly the way religion does it.

In the absence evidence, my Bullshit Detector is glowing red hot. Skepticism leads to truth

[warren52nz]

@fidesquaerensintel89 Human behaviour is complicated and difficult to decipher in purely Evolutionary terms but you can be certain that it can be explained that way.

I have to go for the day but I read an article today that there's a new, credible theory that the reason we have such advanced brains is because of sex. Akin to Peacocks growing those tails. You can probably Google it, it's worth a read. And gives one a new perspective on what we're really up to.

Cheers

[warren52nz]

@fidesquaerensintel89 As for objective morality, I'd be careful citing the Bible as a source of such morality. When Christians are presented with the OT "morality" they try to dodge accountability by saying things like "Jesus made the OT benign". It's just another one of the 100's of bandaids required to keep that leaky boat afloat. Then there's the actual, historically accurate accounts of the violence inflicted on the masses in the name of religion, the Inquisition, the Crusades its laughable!

[warren52nz]

@fidesquaerensintel89 " then religion and all its consequences are the result of a blind process and therefore cannot be blamed on an imaginary God."

Yes, that's a good point. But I think Natural Selection is at work weeding out the believers in the face of unanswerable questions regarding the outlandish claims made by the supporters. Atheism is growing faster than any religion and in the face of the growing mountain of evidence for where we REALLY came from I think it's doomed overall.

[warren52nz]

@fidesquaerensintel89 You can start by KNOWING that Evolution is a fact.... has been since before they discovered DNA and that fit like a glove. Morality exists because of Evolution. Every social species has some form of what you could call at least rudimentary morality. Even ants. Humans couldn't exist without it so Evolution has bred out those that don't (for the most part). You don't need God to tell you to treat others as you would yourself, it's natural. And religion has a terrible history.

[warren52nz]

@fidesquaerensintel89 I realised you might not be a YEC when I wrote it, they're easy pickings.

Let me ask some questions then to see where your beliefs lie.

Do you believe in Evolution? Do you believe the Universe is 13.7 billion years old following the Big Bang? Do you believe God answers prayers? Do you believe morality comes from God? Do you believe Jesus existed? Do you believe he was the Son of God? Do you believe he's watching you right now?

Do you believe in Heaven and Hell?

[warren52nz]

@fidesquaerensintel89 Q. How come the Bible has so many contradictions? watch?v=RB3g6mXLEKk&playnext_f­rom=TL&videos=VBi3UevDCag&feat­ure=sub A. It's not the word of God, it was written by Iron Age men Q. Why do men have nipples if we're the perfect creation of God? A. We weren't created by God Q. Why does God give innocent children fatal diseases? A. Evolution runs on competition, it's a race between infections & immune systems Q. Why doesn't prayer work? A. God doesn't exist. Simple.

[warren52nz]

@fidesquaerensintel89 Yeah, watch:

Q. Why does God allow such bad things to happen?

A. Because God doesn't exist

Q. If Adam & Eve were the parents of all humans doesn't that mean their children were incestuous?

A. Adam & Eve never existed

Q. If God created the Universe 6,000 years ago how come the evidence says it's 13.7 billion years old.

A. God didn't create the Universe

Q. How did Noah get the kangaroos to and from Australia?

A. The Noah story is a fable

See how easy this is?

[warren52nz]

Arguing against religion logically is like shooting fish in a barrel... it's just TOO easy.

Unfortunately, it assumes Theists WANT the truth.... they DON'T.

They're not seeking truth... at best they're looking for ways to support their beliefs which were already established by others by the time they hit puberty (child abuse).

The thing about brainwashing is the brainwashed can't detect it. They're stuck in a vicious circle.

Glad I got out early. Everything makes sense without God.

[Celticking36]

Did all the American Indians go straight to hell for 1492 years before Christianity came to Florida? LOL

[k0smon]

Carlton Pearson, formerly a pentecostal preacher, had a revelation that Christ came to save everyone, and they are saved whether they accept it or not. He calls this the Gospel of Inclusion. This allowed him to keep his beliefs in Christianity, but eliminated the problem of a loving God sending the 'unsaved' to hell.

[FireproofAshes]

@k0smon

I appreciate that there are people who don't expect nonbelievers to go to hell, but unfortunately that belief is in conflict with what the Bible actually says. Of course, you could re-interpret those particular verses to mean whatever you want, but I guess that's why there are thousands of different versions of Christianity to begin with.

[ukulelemike]

@k0smon He is wrong, and is listening to spirits not of God

[k0smon]

@ukulelemike ::: You are some kind of expert on this subject? You sound quite certain of yourself. But Carlton experienced this. You are a total outsider to his experience. Please explain your qualifications to make this judgement.

[ukulelemike]

@k0smon Simple-the Bible says otherwise. revelation will not disagree with the Bible, which is, itself, revelation of God. So, he is trusting in an experience, rather than the expressed word and will of God, which then lumps him in with, "a wicked and adulterous generation seeketh after a sign". He disliked a doctrine, and he got a 'revelation' that agreed with his dislike. Jesus spoke more on hell than He did on heaven, and that for a reason.

[k0smon]

@ukulelemike ::: But the bible is not universally accepted as 'the word of God'. You accept it by faith, as do most Christians. Why are there so many denominations in Christendom? Because there are so many ways to interpret the bible. The bible contains contradictions and errors, it is not a perfect book. Look how many theological arguments there are to the bible. Theologians debate them all the time. Pre or post trib rapture, live with Jesus or 'soul-sleep'; just two controversial subjects.

[MrAubery]

Does God want everyone to live forever? Yes. But everyone will not, by not accepting Him or by their actions showing they aren't interested in life or others having life. Everyone will not, just as sure as some don't want a theif or baby killer in their house. It is fair that everyone doesn't get to come into God's house.

[FireproofAshes]

@MrAubery

Are you of the notion that Hell is finite or infinite?

[MrAubery]

@FireproofAshes I believe hell means grave and can be finite or infinite.

[MrAubery]

I believe there is a choice. Just as sure as there are christians who turn atheist or atheists who turn christian due to CHOICE. At some point you must take responsibility and say it IS MY CHOICE (usually what a grown up does), instead of pointing and saying "they made me believe that". You don't have a choice where you're born. Even with a gun to your head you still have a CHOICE.

[FireproofAshes]

@MrAubery

Is there a statistical difference between people born in Afghanistan who choose to be christian, and people born in the United States who choose to be christian?

[fermos11111]

@MrAubery what if I simply can not make myself believe these absurd stories? What if my mind will not give me the ability to believe something that is not proven? I should lie and say I believe it? Will I get to heaven then? In that case god has a liar in his house!

[ukulelemike]

@fermos11111 Faith is a gift: ask for the faith to believe, but expect to follow that faith. If you are determined to not be able to believe it, you won't get it-you have made your choice.Faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

[fermos11111]

@ukulelemike You sound like a nice enough fellow, so I will be nice. That is the craziest bunch of nonsense ever,and you fell for it! First you are asserting that faith is a gift. A gift from who? And since when is having faith ever been a good thing? Faith equals believing in something without a shred of proof. Never smart my friend.....NEVER

[trondreitan]

Nice and clear argument. Thanks for making this video!

[TheGreaterSatan]

Jesus clearly isn't an equal opportunity savior.

[bombarderoazul]

Atheism FTW!

[Ravindra9689]

Lol, good job. I was going to make this vid also. But I'll leave the topic alone and simply link everyone to you. SonOfCain told me about you making videos about the lies in Matthew. I just finished one like 2 hours ago, I was bored. So yeah, check it out.

[manchester26m]

Im sure any God would want everyone to go to heaven.

However, I get the sneaky suspicion that SOME sects see heaven as some sort of exclusive club that doesnt allow gays - or basically, anyone who they find undesirable.

Personally, Im an Atheist, but given the choice I wouldnt want to spend eternity with a bunch of bible bashers. For me, that is my hell.

[belask]

aha. great video. belief is not a choice. it can't be.

[ResistenciaHumana]

wHAT A fuvk how an Adult can be so Naive and ignorante are you serious FireproofAshes????? or you have some mental disease

[Theronguardaaah]

Don't argue with a retard he will just take you down to his level and beat you.

That's why he gets thumbs.

[kingkongpingpongdong]

I subscribed.

Big ups, dude!

[malignantpoodle]

All excellent points and well laid out. Great work!

[DrixDZanth]

Wow! Fantastic!

[CartCollector]

Great video! Make more. Subbed and 5*.

[spikesmth]

I would argue that belief in religion IS a choice... because individuals are free to believe as they wish (although their communities might impose cultural values upon them). Non-belief however is NOT a choice, unless you are choosing to ignore the evidence :-) Great vid.

[FireproofAshes]

I really don't think belief itself is a choice... but rather a consequence of earlier choices.

For example, I can't make myself believe that 2+2=5... even if someone offered me millions of dollars to do so. I could obviously lie and say I believed it, but in the end I wouldn't be able to fool myself.

Belief is based on other choices; what evidence you look at, what you're exposed to, etc.

[wugglestehgnome]

oh cool! you have evidence of a gods presence!??

WHERE IS IT?

[hal2017]

Welcome to the club - nicely done! subbed

[KasparHauser4]

god's basic message: "kiss my butt of go to Hell."