Local Community Currency Money - Stephanie Mills - 1 of 2

[ashtweth]

Make them out of HEMP paper

[MoneyIsSilver]

This lady's idea is dead in the water. Why would I accept her money?

[newculture]

That is a fine question.

The purpose of sharing this video is to help those who are ready, or who need, to have money, or to develop a money system, to see what some of the issues are.

Why accept is probably the first, most important question to ask. The answer must be, because you can get something you desire by paying with "her" money.

Local currencies like this succeed when people have faith that they can buy valuable things with it.

[kingofthepaupers]

"Why would I accept her money?"

Jct: I'll accept her Bay Bucks when she tells me how much they pay a volunteer for an hour of labor. When their currency is pegged to the Time Standard of Money (how many dollars per volunteer hour labor) hours earned locally can be intertraded with other timebanks globally! In 1999, I paid for 39/40 nights in Europe with an IOU for a night back in Canada worth 5 Hours. So I now have another town to trade accommodations with!

[MoneyIsSilver]

your response makes no sense: "pay a volunteer for an hour of labor"? Volunteers don't get paid by definition. Time standards don't work either. My time is worth more than yours.

[kingofthepaupers]

Jct: Would you have prefered the base unit to an hour of unskilled labor? an hour of child labor? And don't count the hours I play my accordion at old folks homes like I'd count the hours in my business. I count it as a volunteer unskilled child hour. That's the base. A doctor's time is worth more. And I'd bet your time is not worth more than mine. I'm a professional poker player who wins a lot more in 1 hour than minimum wager in a day.

[jum401]

if yours is a genuine question, check this out:

watch?v=OfMbYllbN6c

google bernard lietaer if you are interested in alternative currencies. there are plenty of reasons to develop alternative currencies. if it's been working for switzerland for so long, why wouldn't it work for the rest of the world?

[MoneyIsSilver]

One axiom that is undeniable is that currency has to have its own value - money is a commodity, not a token or a claim on wealth, simply a commodity. Once you take that aspect away, you are trusting a 3rd party with running a monetary system which is a guaranteed recipe for disaster.

[jum401]

it's own value? hehe... value is a floating concept. It changes depending on circumstances. Money is not a commodity, it's a concept. currency might be a commodity, but "money" is the agreement of a community to use "something" as the means of exchange.

Undeniable axiom? an axiom is by definition debatable.

[MoneyIsSilver]

You can believe that if you want to, but in the end the free market will choose a money/currency/medium of exchange that has its own value for the stability. I've been involved with alternate currency/money and barter for the last 2 years now and am probably the nations expert on the matter. Unbacked currencies ALWAYS lose value relative to commodities, which only have very minor fluctuations based on supply and demand. Compare the fluctuations in the value of silver to the value of the dollar.

[jum401]

"Unbacked currencies always lose value"? define "backing" m8! does it have to be in commodities? i don't think so!!! what about wir bank, then? how come it's been working wonders for the last century? what about the experiment of worgl, --to name but a cpl? nation's expert in alternative currencies? and what nation is that m8? AND u've never heard of lietaer? hmmm...

"free market"? give me a break!

[MoneyIsSilver]

"Backing" means that the unit of exchange represents an actual good that the unit can be redeemed for. Commodities are goods, since you seem to be using some other definition. Every non-backed currency loses value through inflation. Compare alternative currency prices to the goods you can buy with them and you will see that the prices always go up as the unbacked currency loses value.

[jum401]

we use the same definitions, it's just that my context is broader. however, you seem to keep looking the other way m8. i will ask again: what about wir bank? what about the experiment of worgl? what about argentina? what about bernard lietaer? is he just an ignorant economist with funny ideas???

[MoneyIsSilver]

I don't speak dutch so I can't tell you much about them except that if they aren't backed by commodities, their value is going down relative to any goods you can purchase with them. That is as indisputable as the fact the sun will rise in the east. Is Lietaer an ignorant economist? Yes, all economists are because trying to model the free market is an act of ignorance. How are you using a broader definition of "commodities"?? The definition is "a good that people use", and that's all.

[MoneyIsSilver]

...my bad...I can't speak swiss. From what I can tell, Wir is still backed by debt. They're basically like a US barter exchange in that they're just a mini central banking scheme - No different from the federal reserve.

[MoneyIsSilver]

Another problem with wir I am finding is that they charge transaction fees, further raising the cost of their use. Not to mention, this means the entire exchange system is still tied to the central banking unit, in this case the Euro. I'm not as familiar with european barter systems, but this seems no different than IMS or Itex in the USA - both failing systems.

[MoneyIsSilver]

I found this: " It will now be endeavored to answer the question in greater detail: How does WIR credit come into existence, and how does it continue to do so? A WIR participant (merchant, tradesman, etc.) may want to purchase a certain object of relatively high cost: furniture, a piano, some inventory for his business, a car, maybe even a house. He does not have enough credit in his WIR account to make the transaction. *more*

[MoneyIsSilver]

He can apply for additional credit if he can offer collateral, or in the case of a house, give a second mortgage to WIR. Second mortgages are a source of WIR credit of considerable magnitude. "

Ahhh, this is worse than US barter exchanges!! They're backing their currency with 2nd mortages!! Oh my goodness, do I need to explain how this spells disaster?

[MoneyIsSilver]

Wir Bank = Giant scam

[newculture]

MoneyIsSilver: Thank you for all of the comments.

Silver and/or gold could be "store of value" currencies, as they seem to hold value over long periods of time.

Silver and/or gold do not make particularly good "medium of exchange" currencies.

Tom Greco's, a monetary historian and author, is one who detail how those two functions can both best be served by a monetary system, Greco suggesting gold as the "store of value" and "standard of account", but not the "medium of exchange".

[MoneyIsSilver]

Tom Greco should read some history. Up until the Federal Reserve was created and for some years afterward, gold and silver were used as a medium of exchange for thousands of years. Today, it would be even easier to use with swipe cards backed by vaulted gold. Google "egold" and read how the gov't has stuck its nose into their business to eliminate competition and enforce their monopoly.

[jum401]

well... some consider it the reason for the proverbial resilience of swiss economy, u call it a giant scam. an 80 year old system, i might add...

stick with your bank debt money, your "free market - free bailout", if u prefer, and the american dream of a non slave labor capitalism. as george carlin put it: "that's why it's called a dream, cause you have to be asleep to believe it".

[MoneyIsSilver]

The Federal Reserve is even older, its still a scam...and a good one apparently considering how many people have been duped by both the Fed and the Wir.

"stick with your bank debt money"

You're an absolute moron. I use silver, jackass! Notice the name much?? Your Wir notes are based on debts that are based on more debts. Stick to your debt money!

[jum401]

silver huh? lol! no wonder u don't get it then!

moron? hmmm...

[MoneyIsSilver]

you obviously were never taught the difference between shit and shine-ola.

[newculture]

Bernard Lietaer is one of the leading thinkers and authors on alternative currencies.

I believe he was one of the designers of the Euro as well. He has a good book on alternative currencies, although out of print.

[jum401]

he was one of the designers of ecu (that later became euro), correct. and he *is* one of the leading thinkers on alternative currencies, i agree. and one of the few economists who think in systemic terms. did u see the video with his speech in european journalism centre ? check it out: watch?v=OfMbYllbN6c

[MoneyIsSilver]

You can believe that if you want to. I think you have the wrong Bernard though. Check out Bernard von Nothaus if you want to know who the real monetary genius is. He created a currency that threatened the US gov't money enough for them to shut him down to enforce their monopoly.

[jum401]

the problem triggered by the monetary system reaches more (all...) aspects of our lives. The questions raised by our lives --if one bothers not to look the other way-- are big ones and demand redefining ourselves and our societies, if we r to form civilized communities.

Think bigger. Get creative. Wealth is created when more parties decide to engage in transactions sharing each others potential. Trading in goods is just one of the ways that, that sharing can be done.

[MoneyIsSilver]

"Think bigger"??? Naw...It sounds like I have to by into your ponzi scheme currency to "think bigger"...I'll keep my silver, thank you.

[jobyweeks]

silver and gold should be the only currency

[newculture]

That is easy to say for people that have access to silver and gold.

Precious metals are often the first thing brought up as what should be a currency. It is very easy to visualize, that the only money is these coins. It reminds us of the currencies of the Roman Empire and earlier. It has curb appeal.

But silver and gold have numerous fatal flaws as a permanent currency.

Excellent books on money are out there: Zarlenga, Mills, Leitaer, and most importantly Thomas Greco are places to start.

[MoneyIsSilver]

"But silver and gold have numerous fatal flaws as a permanent currency."

Your opinion does not outweigh the proof of gold and silvers success as a currency based on thousands of years of being chosen as money in the free market. It took gov't intervention and force to prevent their use, and now banking elite are hording it.

[pdlane43]

why not any commodity? Just have competition?

[MoneyIsSilver]

Yes, as long as the currency is a commodity, it will maintain value. For example, you could have a currency based on units of energy. However, I estimate, and history has borne out, that gold and silver are the easiest commodity to use and will eventually win out in the free market.

[ball4thegame]

American Open Currency Standard

opencurrency(dot)com

GoLocalBuyLocal(dot)com

[58robbo]

what a load of crap! bay bucks are tied totally to federal dollars. this is not a community currency!!!!!!! these stupid systems add zero to local economies and confuse people with real community currency which is based on time credits! not only that, one day one of these currencies will crash due to conterfeiting and then the fed swill move in and regulate against all such systems!!!!

[kingofthepaupers]

" real community currency which is based on time credits!"

Jct: Timedollars don't count as time credits?