The moving of GMC Greyhound Scenicruiser PD4501-1001 (EXP 331) 8-8-08

[SpiritsoftheWolf]

how many of the buses like this still around?? i never seen that old greyhound scenicruiser in my life or anywhere,

[pd4501771]

I keep track of them by serial number, owner, and location. I have integrated friends registry lists that go back into the 1960s. About 230 or so still exist in some form. Not many are road worthy. Probably less than 50. About 10 have been exported to Europe in the last 10 years or so.

[bbjuyb87]

THERE IS A GMC GIMMY THAT THEY

TAPED AND RECORDED TO BOTHER

PEOPLE TO GET SPIED ON.

[pd4501771]

@bbjuyb87 Um what?

[SAOTOME666]

so what are your plans for this old beauty??

[pd4501771]

@SAOTOME666 original restoration eventually.

[93hondaLX]

how the hell did I wind up here?

[TheEdTeach]

damn, that bus is huge.....

[DeserTBoB93535]

I drove a twin 4-71 unit in Canada in the early '70s...what a nightmare! Hound was quite correct in dumping that setup for what became the stock MCI powertrain...8V71N/Spicer 4 speed. Parts of the "fluid coupling" setup (actually a two speed clutch) became parts for the "Hydra-Shift" that found themselves installed on some 4104s. Glen Embree did that with their 4104s and they could beat any 4106 up a grade.

[lawdog490]

interesting story about a man and his toys/hobbies....senic ruisers are on the rather large side though, cars,trucks,mabey even a fishbowl, senicruisers,wow...good luck guy, i wish you the best...What A-hole had to put a dislike on this video, I just don't understand some people...

[pd4501771]

No idea about milage. Could be 5+ million. The twin fours ran through a fluid coupling into a standard 3 speed trans. which had a two speed spliter, that effectively gave six forward gears.

Tom

[H71BCD]

Any ideas on how many miles this old girl has covered ? I've read that the original twin 4-71's were installed side by side but just can't visualise how they would drive thru a single transmission. Did the one motor run in reverse direction and with drive shafts off the flywheels going into a single transmission ? Best wishes with the refurb program.

[pd4501771]

@DAN4279 This one won't ! only 230 or so of 1001 produced survive today, most are converted. only about 25 are still seated buses like this one. I'm hell bent on preservation.

[josgaleldo]

h i man great bus if you need halp torestoration  the bus let me know. please ...

[Grandpimpin22]

I think its great that you saved a piece of history

[cvueguy]

Thanks for clearing that mystery up!

That is a real prize.

Fred

[cvueguy]

Did production then start with 1001 and work their way down to 001 ?

[pd4501771]

No. Full production run started at 001 and ended with 1000. Then this prototype (built in 1953, prior to start of production) was added to the end of the production run, becoming 1001. Odd turn of events, but that is how it happened. Tom

[synthfreakify]

Has anybody restored one of these with the two engines?

[pd4501771]

No one ever has done that. That would be very difficult. The two engine set-up never worked very well for Greyhound, so I do not think I could pull it off. Tom

[youontwantnonnadis]

This bus looks like it's being held together by staples and duct tape

[cvueguy]

Notice that the right outside mirror is pushed way out.

Drivers usually tuck them in closer to the body.

[mrsafety100]

sounds like the big rig has a 12v71 under the "hood"?

[websuspect]

Sounds like it needs new bearings and breaks. What if you sand blasted it with baking soda?

[yesiamanalien]

Nice bus and nice vid... but even I think all those angles from transport were a lot :P Still nice to see though (bet they were a little hard to get).

[gbowne1]

these are beautiful busses. That's gotta be one long heavy trailer.



[mbazell]

I sure miss the old scenicruiser service between Boston and Chicago. In 1965 it took about 24 hours but as a teenager I enjoyed the scenery, the air conditioning and the view. Stopped along the New York thruway at a couple of rest stops inbetween Albany, Schenectady, Utica and Buffalo. Had a nice nap from BUF to Cleveland, then sat up the rest of the way on into Chicago bus term. at Clark and Randolph. That double decker was ahead of its time. Smooth, quiet and comfort. Cruised well at 70.

[DougCameraMan]

You said this is the prototype for the Scenicruiser. Could you elaborate on some of the differences if any? And do you know how many Scenicruisers were made and when, and how many are known to survive today?

[pd4501771]

@DougCameraMan GMC produced 1001 Scenics from 1954-1956. PD4501-1001 is identicle to all others except: It once had emergency exit door on left side, (removed by Greyhound sometime during their ownership), had a spotlight on the "A" piller near driver, and fake "drum-head" on the rear of the coach (that is where Tootsie Toy got the idea for the rear of their diecast Scenicruiser toy). All three of these ideas never saw production for the following 1000 built.

[DougCameraMan]

@pd4501771 Thank you. I was thinking I had heard it was 500 produced but that must have been 500 a year for two years which equals 1,000.. In any case, it sounds like you have the first one ever made. If that's the case, this project should be well worth the investment . My dad owned a couple of Scenicruisers back in the late 60s early 70s when he ran a small charter bus service.. I'm sure he sold them at some point, not junked, but I don't really know what happened to them.

[pd4501771]

@DougCameraMan They atually produced a prototype ahead of mine in 1949 called the GX-2. It was tested and ran, but never put in production. The GX-2 was sold to a couple of different bands and was eventually scrapped. So, mine is the second Scenicruiser prototype. Do you have access to any photos of the Scenics your Dad once owned? I collect photos and keep a serial number history registry. What and where was the charter company called? I may have heard of it before.

Tom

Tom

[DougCameraMan]

@pd4501771 I wish I could help with photos or serial numbers but it's all ancient history now. Today, we take lots of photos and videos but back then they were rare. Plus we thought of them as just some other buses, nothing that special. I'm thinking he had two of them but6 even that is fuzzy, may have been only one. That was 40 years ago. The company was called Maryland Bus Lines, based in Beltsville, Maryland. Long since out of business. I will ask him if he remembers, though.

[bigbadbronco86]

cool project, if you dont mind my asking about how much di d you give for the old girl?

[pd4501771]

I had to buy this Scenicruiser (PD4501-1001) & another (PD4501-997) together. I did not need, nor did I want to pay freight on two buses. So, I re-sold 997 to a friend in Oklahoma. My total investment so far for bus and transportation home is around $4200.  That's the cheap part.......the restoration is where the bucks will be needed. But, I'm in no hurry to finish. This will be a long term project.

[anvil357]

will you give any updates on it's current status?

[grudainc]

@anvil357 yeah is she runnin?

[pd4501771]

@grudainc  Not running. Bought with no engine and trans. I have engine and trans to install.

[pd4501771]

Still collecting parts. I will post videos when I get started.

[johnsenkenn]

It seem to me that there is enough work for a lifetime, on all those busses.

[pd4501771]

@johnsenkenn  That's for sure!

[bigbzon]

She sure looks sweet!

Nice of you too share this great piece of engineering wih us.

[AmtrakTrain87]

Wow you got some collection there. I never had the pleasure of riding in a Senicruiser.

[pd4501771]

Please join us for Scenicruise 2010, "The Hounds of the Mothe Road Reunion". This historic gathering of surviving GMC PD-4501 Scenicruisers will be held in Adrian/ Amarillo, Texas April 8-9. 2010. All welcome! See next post

[pd4501771]

Cont'd: We will meet at The Big Texan Steak Ranch in Amarillo, Texas Thursday April 8, 2010 (9am CST) and travel by Scenicruiser to Adrian, Texas (47 miles) (Adrian is the geographic midpoint of U.S. Route 66) for photos/lunch and then cruise Route 66 and return to Amarillo, Texas where the buses will be on display Thursday and Friday.

[wilatemodel]

...video update?????......plz......

[pd4501771]

1001 will be resting in my barn for a few more years. I am always collecting parts. Need to finish other projects first.

[wilatemodel]

k,...ty

[nachos1990]

Put a Detroit Diesel in that bitch

[pd4501771]

I have a 8V-71 Detroit to install eventually.

Tom

[nachos1990]

Nice that will make it move. Beautiful classic by the way

[12v71jimmy]

i think thats a neat old tour bus, that would make a nice motor coach for sombody

[pd4501771]

This is the prototype for the 4501 Scenicruiser. This will be restored as a seated coach.

Tom

[12v71jimmy]

does that thing run

[pd4501771]

1001 does not run yet, as it currently does not have an engine installed.

[remie4494]

I have to tell you, I have such a great respect and admiration for you!! What you are doing is just awesome for the history and art that buses are. There are no memorable buses being made today. And if you remember one its because it's garbage! Those are true coaches that you have. Character and personality! I have an 83 and 86 Eagle restored and in service. I can't wait to see the second Scenicruiser!!! Beautiful.

[pd4501771]

Thanks. I appreciate that. I am just finishing up the lower interior on PD4501-771. Will be done before we go to Texas for the Scenicruiser gathering in Amarillo.

[SteveCarras]

@remie4494

Sweeter words were never said.

[j6sj7]

Nice to see these two great old Decks side by side in the barn together at long last. I bet it's been many years since that's happened for either of them. You have quite a mission before you, Tom...Hang in there!

[Bryan90260]

That one bus that's been restored looks brand new right from the manufacture.

[oldskoolcoinop]

Great story on this one. Looks like it ended up in the right hands to me. I would love to go on a long trip front row top, must be a great view.

[eh4891]

Amazing bus

[ethicomm]

Beautiful old bus. Glad to hear it's being restored. Such a classic looking vehicle that I'd love to take a trip in today!

[Brownrigg15]

(continued) The Scenicruiser provided a fantastic ride through the villages of upper New York and the beautiful Adirondack Mountains

and I have lasting memories of an amazing trip. Thanks for posting this video and I think that it's great that this old Greyhound is being restored.

[pd4501771]

Thanks. It is stories like yours that motivate me to keep these things around. They have such great history that go with them.

[Brownrigg15]

I was sixteen when I took my "ride of a lifetime" on an Eastern Greyhound Scenicruiser from Montreal to NYC. I didn't ride upstairs but in the right front seat giving me a wonderful view of the road ahead. I-87 was only partially completed at that time (1959) and much of the trip north of Albany was on old US. (to be continued)

[yambo59]

Wow- I remember riding on one of the "super-scenicruisers" when i was like five years old (50 now) and I remember screaming for a seat in the "high part" - it was the ride of my life up to that point, I loved trains etc and this was a great ride to my cousings in indiana, and if I remember right it was a viciously cold winter and we had to transfer buses due to the trans not going into gear on our bus. I always loved trains, trucks, buses, etc. this is a real piece of Americana-!!!

[Klattu]

I would see these as a kid, always wanted to ride in one with those windows on top...never did...they were gone by the time I took a bus

[pd4501771]

yep, front rows upstairs are the best view.

[serioussteve18]

Excellent job! Nice to see someone willing to go to great effort to save one of these fantastic old buses. Is that a 4104 I see tucked in there? The 4104 is my all-time favorite GM highway bus. I have a GM Transit, a 1971 TDH-3301 "Baby Fishbowl". I look forward to the day when you get 1001 running!

[pd4501771]

Yes That is PD4104-3462 restored in its original Tamiami Trailways colors.

Tom

[AdamsDustyLee]

Nice Video sir

[Kitfugl]

Is she for sale?

[pd4501771]

You are referring to PD4501-771. Thats how all buses looked back before modern apportioned license plates. They had to display plates for the states they ran.

[CowboyPenner]

That's a really neat story and I'm sure it'll all be worth it once it's restored. I wish I had the resources to do something like this.

[pd4501771]

Thanks for the kind words. I am by no means wealthy. I am just very dedicated to a long term project. When one does not have tons of extra money, it takes a long time to get things accomplished. So, patience is king. I have to do everything myself, so I learn a lot along the way. We meet some great people also.

[BM357Darkangel]

Dear sir, when you have completed this restoration will you you show it on this page? I hope so. Back in the 80's I drove for trailways out of Norfolk, Va. Every once in awhile a PD 4501 would come into the station and I was able to drive her. She is very nice to drive. Plus when I was a kid we would go from N.Y.C. to Atlanta & would be in one of these puppies. Please let me know when you are completed. Thanks.

[pd4501771]

I will post videos once the resto. process starts. I plan to video much of the work. I am still collecting needed parts, and need to finish interior of PD4501-771

(8149). It will be many years before I am finished with 1001.

[zip1325]

This is a nice bus you got here sir, and a good clean simple restoration is nice agree with brettrobson1984.Keep it original

[pd4501771]

No engine or trans. Read the "more info" section in discription. Tells whole story.

[northstar2007]

Very cool bus... does this one run at all? Anything special about it (Ie last one made?)

[brettrobson1984]

Are you going ti kit it out with LCD screens. leather seats and other bells an whistles

[pd4501771]

No, this will be an original restoration, not a RV conversion.

[brettrobson1984]

Fair enough my friend, I know what some people are like when it comes to these thing, they go a bit overboard and it loses its orginality

[circusboy90210]

would love to retrofit one of these with modern powerplant, electronics, transmission etc.

[pd4501771]

Plenty of those around.

[dongmo1]

I had an opportunity to ride Scenic Cruisers quite a bit as a kid. They were the coolest busses! The twin 4-71's synced together made music to a future mechanic's ears. I thought they were 4 speed with electric overdrive. Cool video. Glad to see the old girl is going to be restored. Anyone going back to twin 4-71engines for authenticity? The sound you know!!

Thanks for posting!

[nww69]

Tom... you must have a very very understanding wife.

[pd4501771]

Oh boy! Yes I do!!

[tpvalley]

Whats below the rear seats, with them being higher up?

toilet and luggage space?

[pd4501771]

10 seats downstairs, with restroom. 33 seats upstairs. two huge baggage bins below upstairs seating.

[hamslice151]

great find. this is like having the last 67 stingray.

[pd4501771]

Thanks. Or like the first AND last 67 stingray !

[BigDan855]

Are both rear axles drive axles? or is one just a tag along? Coudnt tell

[pd4501771]

Forward axle is the drive, and rear is a tag.

[BigDan855]

ok I know the old Crown 3 axles school buses used two drive axle which is cool cus you lock them for added traction. Just wonder if any other older 3 axle buses where done like this?

[pd4501771]

Good question. I do not know.

[NHComputerGeek]

6:04 dang, that thing is hauling! imagine if it crashed!! wow...

[doggsho]

Interesting and awesome video pd4501771. Its more than enough that this is a mint conditioned SceniCruiser PD4501, but to be the last one made (1001) is the greatest bus-nut treasure ever and is worth lots of money. !Merry Christmas!

[pd4501771]

Contact name/PH.number? Serial# is in tool compartment on outside of coach on driver's side below driver's window. Compartment door has the left front bumper extension attached to it. There is a latch handle to open this compartment door directly below the bumper extension. (handle sticks out from behind the bumper extension.)look deep inside the compartment past the pedal linkage. There will be a number stamped into the aluminum. Should read something like PD4501-??? love to get that #.Thanks

[binned45]

awesome video !! love them buses they are so neat. I know where another one is sitting for sale . it looks to be in mint cond . it's all silver , and has a air conditioner on top right before the roof goes up , i believe its a tandem axle. i wish i had money to restore it . it would make a nice RV it's located in PA on Route 11-15 between Sunbury and Lewisburg.... the for sale sign is in the front windshield. wonder what the serial no is on that one . Greg

[richardman1992]

nice bus. what is the deal on all these scenicruisers? what powerplants did they use?

[pd4501771]

What do mean when you ask: "what is the deal on all these scenicruisers?" Do you mean..."why so many videos?" or are you asking about their history? 1001 total produced by GMC exclusively for Greyhound from 1954-1956. Used two (2) four cylinder detroit diesels, until 1961/1962 when all repowered to one 8V71 Detroit diesel.

Tom McNally

[richardman1992]

i meant the history, they look and sound cool with the driptroits lol

[SteveCarras]

A novelty in many ways, this bus early on had not just four gears but 6 (3 thru a fluid coupling that started the engine and provided a split, thus six. Motor Coach Age online (PDF format) reveals (May 1974) that a "electric treadle" was offered for clutching! Plus the TWO, count them, two engines, including the fluid coupling started one (you started one, to star the other. Separately started.)Whew! But all of this later on was followed by the Detroit Disel 8V71 and the Spicer 4-speed manual.

[SteveCarras]

I know these had 4-sps, with rev. slected with solenoid on second..I've assumed it was the same gear pattern (with the alteration of the reverse selected on second.)

I've guessed then this was the shift pattern then.[familiar "H" pattern.Reverse as I read was selected vertically,above second-though I've read about a 5-spd. where it was selected to the right of 1st, but that was on a trans for Flxible, not GMC Go to Buses! on Goggle)

1 3

I I

I I

+---+

I I

R I

2 4

[maxboya]

Hello,

and may I say how amazing this video was.

I wish you could of shown the inside more,

I will check out your other videos soon...Thanks!

[DGillyy]

Would be neat to see one of these in the original twin engine, but I imagine parts were all scrapped, but would be cool.

Are these both restored (or being restored) back to original configuration? Would be great to see one, I am in S Wisconsin.

[pd4501771]

I am told after the removal of the twin fours in 1961/1962 most of those engines went to industrial applications like the oil fields in Texas, or were simply scrapped. The gold stripped Scenic 8149 that appears in this video is mostly restored with the exception of the interior. It is still seated and has the restroom, but just needs freshened up with paint and details. The red 4104 is restored. I just aquired PD4501-1001 in august 2008, and am planning full restoration. Tom McNally

[ACLTony]

Steve, Tom...........Thanks so much! I did a search on the web and found Jefferson's toll free number. I will call them asap.

[ACLTony]

Only 1000 of these were built? Amazing, as commented above, they seemed to be everywhere. Add to that, Greyhound's tv and magazine advertising featured these coaches so often.

Another rare coach is the competing Trailways Eagle 0-1 (1960s version) with the 3-piece back window. Saw them everywhere also, now they're extremely rare. I've been trying to locate an 0-1 as there is a company interested in producing a scale model, but they can't locate a prototype. But are still searching.

[pd4501771]

Hi There

Nice example of an 01 Eagle was at Jefferson truck & bus parts in Oklahoma City, OK. Saw it a few months ago. Former church bus. Very complete and original, except paint scheme. I have some pictures of it on the yahoo Scenicruiser21 site. Take care.

Tom McNally

[klassikars]

That Eagle is at Jefferson Truck and Bus Repair in Ok. City. Saw it over the fence today! Look them up on the net yellow pages. You don't see many of those. We had a couple pass thru the bus lot in the 80's. but we didn't move many Eagles as they were notoriously rusty.

Regards,

Steve Davis

[klassikars]

Hello Tom,

I started to list 1001 got stuck on the zeros I worked with HC Sullivan at Okla.Bus & Truck here in OKC. He had parts for 4501,4104buses. Jefferson Bus in OKC bought those parts may still have some parts. We had many over the years. Sold one to actor Dale Robertson who lives near here, to convert to RV. Hired a guy to take out the upper deck in the bus to cargo floor level. Well it got stripped, & there went another.

S Davis

[pd4501771]

Hi Steve

Small world! I know of Sully, but never got the chance to meet him. I am good friends with Fred Rayman of O.K. city. I have his old 4104. I was down there a few months ago to get the remaining 04/4501 parts that Sully's family had at his house. Wish I could have met him....I've heard great things about Sully. Also snooped around Jeff's yard while down there too. Take care.

Tom McNally

[klassikars]

Hello Tom,

How interesting! That is one nice 4104! We bought a Crown Bus in Washington last year that had the 671. Turns out it was a fresh rebuild. Drove 2,800 miles without using any oil. I still have a set of original seats for a 4104 if you know of anyone interested. Fred is a great guy too. Dont know what he did with his collection as I heard last, he was moving. Sully was truly one of a kind.

Regards,

Steve Davis

[klassikars]

The reason you saw them all the time was that Greyhound kept them on the move all the time. They only built 1000 of these. Surprising that any exist today. A number of these were used to convert Greyhounds Challenger buses into the tandem rear axle arrangement. One of our mechanics once rode in the engine compartment several miles to diagnose a problem we could not figure out. A brave soul he was. As it turned out to be a cracked bulkhead, a common problem with Scenicruisers.

Steve Davis

[pd4501771]

Thanks Steve

I and others have been keeping a pretty complete list of Scenicruisers left around for the past ten-15 years. By our count, there are about 200 Scenics left in various conditions today .I even have a list of the serial numbers of the Scenics scrapped for the MC-7 combo conversions as you stated. Not to be a smart ass, but they actually built 1001 of these. As this bus in the video is #1001. Thanks for your comments.

Tom McNally

[ACLTony]

So happy for you that you have this coach.I saw them often as a kid back in the 1960s. She's going to be a classy beauty when finished! For Gray Line, I drove Buffaloes and various MCIs, but I wish I would have had the opportunity to operate one of these!

[pd4501771]

Thanks Tony. I am collecting needed parts to complete resto. Huge project, but I'm in no hurry.

Tom

[p47br]

hi, would you let me know of restoration progress, please?

if you ever put images in a website I will be thankful if you let me know

thanks and happy restorarion

marco - brazil

[swollario]

Nice! Are you gonna post any moving pics of 8149?