I also agree that the integration of Hispanics is a task with some difficulties because of both dysfunctions within the societies from which they come, and because of our own weakening sense of identity which has more to do with us than them, but I don't think groups like La Raza represent most Hispanics, and i live in New York where there is a pretty good number.
@Califacience jeez..we agree again on La Raza. I think the sad fact is that we have very vocal groups that advocate separatism or even the breakup of the US to the benefit of their agendas....not to say that there are not other ethnic agendas. I am only saying sad in that if we were actually able to work toward a common America goal we might actually fix something.....a bit idealistic I know.
NY to San Diego discussion...gotta love technology
You discern the dangers of the kind of separatism that affirmative action policies can create, but do you see that it was Separatism (against Blacks) that opened the door to this further separatism (which i don't agree with, but which has come as a consequence of our own action).
@Califacience I see that there is in place and growing a separatism imposed by black and hispanics on American society. Sure there is white flight from those areas but I believe it is those ethnic groups that create the separation.
There are groups active in the hispanic community to take back the southwest which they believe was "stolen" from them. The are groups like the Nation of Islam that advocate black separatism.
Yes, but my post had to do with why groups like the Nation Of Islam came into existence in the first place. The reason they became separatists was because they were separated. The ghettos were not first created because Blacks wanted to only live among themselves, they were created because most Blacks were not permitted to live elsewhere as a consequence of a number of both legal and de facto tactics that were used to segregate them. I agree that it is not a good thing.
@Califacience true..but over the years these groups continue to advocate separatism. Obama's Rev Wright advocates black separatism. Hispanic groups like those that talk about Aztlan openly want the Southwest taken back to be part of Mexico. So there is growing separatism by various ethnic groups in a time when we are "celebrating diversity" but I believe is actually supporting continued fragmentation of America. This will not end well.
Yes they do, but the separation of Blacks lasted CENTURIES, groups like the Nation of Islam have been for what, like 40 years? and it's safe to say that most Blacks don't share their desire to completely segregate the races. There are still issues that trouble me about the civil rights movement (particularly in more mainstream figures like Jesse Jackson) but i don't think we need to overestimate the roles of extreme organizations and inflate the problem even more.
@Califacience Actually I think we underestimate the role of the extreme groups. As I believe will happen economic conditions in the US will continue to deteriorate and we will see growing support for what some might say are "extreme" groups...just my opinion though.
think extreme groups of all kinds get more press than they deserve simply because they are extreme, and the news love the sensational.
Youth popular culture (as atrocious as it is in other respects) is quite racially integrated, it is hard to imagine THEM going for a racial separation deal. There are ofcourse unassimilated hispanics who are not fully part of that culture, but the less integrated they are the less influence they tend to have over Hispanics as a whole.
@Califacience Have you seen the protests in LA? Most of the Hispanics protesting are young. They are active supporters of the Aztlan movement and La Raza. They are also very ethno-centric and not racially integrated. Maybe different in NY. But in CA, AZ it is like this.
Empires are usually characterized as single nations acquiring new territories and control over new peoples through military conquest, but this is an interesting way of looking at things. if America became ENTIRELY balkanized, regardless of how it got that way, it would have all the issues of a Empire .
As for the cause, Error opens the door for greater error. Without the racial injustices of the past (which many Conservatives take somewhat lightly) the backlash would not have been possible
at this point in the game, there's so much on the pile, it's (intentionally) hard to root cause anything.
since technology, creativity and trade propel humanity fwd, until we can morally all just get along (we're so far from that now!), we require a police force to keep transportation routes open and safe at least (of course, we have a massive perversion of that now).
Thanks for the response. Although empire is separate from nation and supersedes it. Most people see country and nation as the same thing. Nation is more of a corporation of the peoples within a geographic locality. Country is more of a uniform population that has settled an area. Like the tribe of Scotts eventually became the country of scottland and scotland became part of the UK for a time which was the center of the britsh empire.
@azezel2311 The global american empire is more an empire based on the dollar to project our culture and the use of our military to keep friendly regimes inline enough to use their resources while our reserves stay on the sidelines. This run away debt may actually be a none issue if the dollar becomes the dominant system of exchange and our credit system becomes the core of issuance for the entire planet. If that happens then by adjusting the language of the deals you can negate the debts.
@azezel2311 Your welcome..you always have pretty good comments. I used nation and empire because the dictionary defs are so like what we were and what we are now. But it is interesting I use to think Soviet Union was the empire. But after their collapse we have become them in a way.
@wakeupbreathing we have become more or less the strongman of the corporate empire that is derived from the city of London and for the most part we are well taken care of when compared to the rest of the world.
we been an empire since the 1900's at least and further became so in 1941. we started off as a good empire now we are like the evil empire in star wars because of our leaders. everything started off with good intentions but you know the saying
@mofoca22 I agree but think we were a good nation prior to becoming the evil empire. Unfortunately in the coming years we will be worse as the planets resources become more scarce and we have to compete with other countrys for those resources.
I also agree that the integration of Hispanics is a task with some difficulties because of both dysfunctions within the societies from which they come, and because of our own weakening sense of identity which has more to do with us than them, but I don't think groups like La Raza represent most Hispanics, and i live in New York where there is a pretty good number.
Califacience 1 year ago
@Califacience jeez..we agree again on La Raza. I think the sad fact is that we have very vocal groups that advocate separatism or even the breakup of the US to the benefit of their agendas....not to say that there are not other ethnic agendas. I am only saying sad in that if we were actually able to work toward a common America goal we might actually fix something.....a bit idealistic I know.
NY to San Diego discussion...gotta love technology
wakeupbreathing 1 year ago
You discern the dangers of the kind of separatism that affirmative action policies can create, but do you see that it was Separatism (against Blacks) that opened the door to this further separatism (which i don't agree with, but which has come as a consequence of our own action).
Califacience 1 year ago
@Califacience I see that there is in place and growing a separatism imposed by black and hispanics on American society. Sure there is white flight from those areas but I believe it is those ethnic groups that create the separation.
There are groups active in the hispanic community to take back the southwest which they believe was "stolen" from them. The are groups like the Nation of Islam that advocate black separatism.
wakeupbreathing 1 year ago
@wakeupbreathing
Yes, but my post had to do with why groups like the Nation Of Islam came into existence in the first place. The reason they became separatists was because they were separated. The ghettos were not first created because Blacks wanted to only live among themselves, they were created because most Blacks were not permitted to live elsewhere as a consequence of a number of both legal and de facto tactics that were used to segregate them. I agree that it is not a good thing.
Califacience 1 year ago
@Califacience true..but over the years these groups continue to advocate separatism. Obama's Rev Wright advocates black separatism. Hispanic groups like those that talk about Aztlan openly want the Southwest taken back to be part of Mexico. So there is growing separatism by various ethnic groups in a time when we are "celebrating diversity" but I believe is actually supporting continued fragmentation of America. This will not end well.
wakeupbreathing 1 year ago
@wakeupbreathing
Yes they do, but the separation of Blacks lasted CENTURIES, groups like the Nation of Islam have been for what, like 40 years? and it's safe to say that most Blacks don't share their desire to completely segregate the races. There are still issues that trouble me about the civil rights movement (particularly in more mainstream figures like Jesse Jackson) but i don't think we need to overestimate the roles of extreme organizations and inflate the problem even more.
Califacience 1 year ago
@Califacience Actually I think we underestimate the role of the extreme groups. As I believe will happen economic conditions in the US will continue to deteriorate and we will see growing support for what some might say are "extreme" groups...just my opinion though.
wakeupbreathing 1 year ago
think extreme groups of all kinds get more press than they deserve simply because they are extreme, and the news love the sensational.
Youth popular culture (as atrocious as it is in other respects) is quite racially integrated, it is hard to imagine THEM going for a racial separation deal. There are ofcourse unassimilated hispanics who are not fully part of that culture, but the less integrated they are the less influence they tend to have over Hispanics as a whole.
Califacience 1 year ago
@Califacience Have you seen the protests in LA? Most of the Hispanics protesting are young. They are active supporters of the Aztlan movement and La Raza. They are also very ethno-centric and not racially integrated. Maybe different in NY. But in CA, AZ it is like this.
wakeupbreathing 1 year ago
Empires are usually characterized as single nations acquiring new territories and control over new peoples through military conquest, but this is an interesting way of looking at things. if America became ENTIRELY balkanized, regardless of how it got that way, it would have all the issues of a Empire .
As for the cause, Error opens the door for greater error. Without the racial injustices of the past (which many Conservatives take somewhat lightly) the backlash would not have been possible
Califacience 1 year ago
at this point in the game, there's so much on the pile, it's (intentionally) hard to root cause anything.
since technology, creativity and trade propel humanity fwd, until we can morally all just get along (we're so far from that now!), we require a police force to keep transportation routes open and safe at least (of course, we have a massive perversion of that now).
KnowledgeDriven 1 year ago
@KnowledgeDriven So, after the brit empire failed to maintain order (see WW1&2), it has since been up to Team America: World Police.
subbed! :)
KnowledgeDriven 1 year ago
Thanks for the response. Although empire is separate from nation and supersedes it. Most people see country and nation as the same thing. Nation is more of a corporation of the peoples within a geographic locality. Country is more of a uniform population that has settled an area. Like the tribe of Scotts eventually became the country of scottland and scotland became part of the UK for a time which was the center of the britsh empire.
azezel2311 1 year ago
@azezel2311 The global american empire is more an empire based on the dollar to project our culture and the use of our military to keep friendly regimes inline enough to use their resources while our reserves stay on the sidelines. This run away debt may actually be a none issue if the dollar becomes the dominant system of exchange and our credit system becomes the core of issuance for the entire planet. If that happens then by adjusting the language of the deals you can negate the debts.
azezel2311 1 year ago
@azezel2311 Your welcome..you always have pretty good comments. I used nation and empire because the dictionary defs are so like what we were and what we are now. But it is interesting I use to think Soviet Union was the empire. But after their collapse we have become them in a way.
wakeupbreathing 1 year ago
@wakeupbreathing we have become more or less the strongman of the corporate empire that is derived from the city of London and for the most part we are well taken care of when compared to the rest of the world.
azezel2311 1 year ago
@azezel2311 yes, that has been the MO... times are a changing, tho, as we can observe....
KnowledgeDriven 1 year ago
we been an empire since the 1900's at least and further became so in 1941. we started off as a good empire now we are like the evil empire in star wars because of our leaders. everything started off with good intentions but you know the saying
mofoca22 1 year ago
@mofoca22 I agree but think we were a good nation prior to becoming the evil empire. Unfortunately in the coming years we will be worse as the planets resources become more scarce and we have to compete with other countrys for those resources.
wakeupbreathing 1 year ago