EVERYBODY beilive in hell cuz its real beilive me plzzz u dont want to go there if u dont beilive me watch 23 mins in hell cuz when ur in hell u cant get out..
@HonestDiscussioner I understand why you don't believe in Hell. However, you can't actually call yourself HonestDiscussioner when you haven't really been through the experience. It's like saying you're honest and then saying that the wind doesn't blow when you haven't been outside before. You don't know.
@K12fromPA I am honest. I don't say "there is no possibility hell exists". I say "there is no reason to believe hell exists". Personal testimony is not a reason to believe hell exists, nor is any other currently available fact or argument, to my knowledge.
@ MyChainsAreGone7777..Reject....You bet. It's not a "Gift", It's believe this without ANY evidence or be tortured FOREVER. Not what I call a choice. More like a gun to you head. Do this or die. So that right there kills "free will". Oh, and I was "brought up" in a Baptist Church. Baptized at 9 years old. Had that Garbage stuffed down my throat 3 days a week, including "Pastors Class". Do yourself a favor. Do some REAL research into religious history....Peace. :)
besides that priceless piece of testimonial evidence did this person also bring samples? I don't know... hell rocks? vile of liquid fire from the famous lake? a piece of a hoof from a devil? a horn? a chain? : )
@HonestDiscussioner (1) WRONG. Look into the secret societies that these same politicians calling for a New World Order are apart of. They are Luciferian occultists with an agenda to abolish all spiritual and religious aspects of society to then usher in the anti-Christ who will rule over mankind through a tyrannical Luciferian one-world government. (This is their demonic religious belief and agenda.)
@HonestDiscussioner (2) But first, they have to construct a global secular society. Look at the back of a 1-dollar bill. They hide their symbolism in plain view. You see the Illuminati pyramid with the Freemasonic all-seeing eye at the top (aka the "eye of Lucifer"). Underneath, it reads "novus ordo seclorum," which is latin for a "new secular order." Above the eye, it reads "annuit coeptis" which means "he favors our undertaking." ... "He" being Lucifer.
@HonestDiscussioner (3) Please, I urge you to look into the nefarious Luciferian religious beliefs of the politicians & elites currently running our world. Watch YouTube documentaries: "The Age of Evil" & "Lucifer god of the Illuminai." They will explain it to you much better than I can. Also, do a search for the New World Order & one-world government.
Watch videos of our politicians calling for a "new world order" at:
h t t p : / / 911truthseeker . webs . com / thenewworldorder . htm
@HonestDiscussioner "Satan and his rebellious host will thus prove to have become the direct Saviors and Creators of divine man. Thus Satan, once he ceases to be viewed in the superstitious spirit of the church, grows into the grandiose image. It is Satan who is the God of our planet, and the only God."
--H.P. Blavatsky, highly-respected Illuminati occultist and author of "The Secret Doctrine."
(Quoted from her book: "The Secret Doctrine," pg 215)
@sg51863....Theology (N) : The field of study and analysis of MAKE BELIEVE; For the purpose of spinning reality to conform to the human imagination, so the control of others can be achieved......P.S. Dude, lighten up. You know the the Jewish God of the desert is just another story from ancient goat and sheep herders. He is no more real than Zeus, Apollo, Mithra, Ra, Ect...Peace.
If aborted babies automatically go to heaven, which is waaaaaay better than this crappy earth apparently, why are christians so anti-abortion? wouldnt god want to raise the odds of more people getting to heaven? The system seems rigged to get as many people as possible into hell. Never heard of jesus? Hell. Heard of him through a priest who was also a paedophile and so werent convinced? Hell. Suicide because u had schizophrenia or depression? Hell. Insulted the holy spirit? Hell...
@timothymochley Well, that would depend on your theology. It changes between denominations. For example, some Orthodox churches claims its your mental state that determines where you go. Catholics give allowances for the mentally ill or those not in their right mind when they commit suicide. If we are talking evangelical, then yeah, point well made.
@sg51863..I was raised a Christian, but unlike most Christians, I actually read the Bible. That's the fastest way I know of to become an Atheist. Peace....
@odiewan58 Rejecting God's gift of salvation (through believing and accepting Jesus as Lord of your life) is the worst thing that a man could ever do. Eternity is at stake here. Hope you will give God a chance to reveal Himself to you.
@HonestDiscussioner Kindly watch Life Beyond the Grave ~ Dead Man in Morgue Returns to Life. You may not believe this story, but this is just one of the thousands of stories about the afterlife and an encounter with Jesus Christ our Lord and Savior.
@sg51863 Been there. Done that. You know when Hindu's have an NDE they see their Hindu gods and not Jesus, right? Do you also know that studies have shown those that have NDE's have a high level of CO2 in the blood, an condition that is known to cause visions?
And if you claim it's the evil one tricking the Hindu's, I can claim its the evil one tricking the Christians.
@HonestDiscussioner Kindly watch: Warning to Atheists, Islam, Hindu, Jewish, So called Christians, Porn Stars, and everybody else ! The devil is against everyone and he wanted to drag us all to hell. That's why Jesus is pleading to us not to believe satan's lies, rather, to read the Bible and get to know the Savior. Even the black hole in the center of the whirlpool galaxy shows an empty cross. "The simple believe anything, but the prudent give thought to their steps."Proverbs 14:14-16
@sg51863 So, I give you an argument and evidence against your position, and your response it to completely ignore it and blankly assert that you're right. Jesus was just a man, who is dead, and never came back to life, your book is not from God, we have no reason to think a God exists, and you have nothing to base your argument on other than circular reasoning.
@odiewan58 The word of God is never in vain, and being raised Christian does not mean you ARE or WERE one, true love cannot be forced to follow God, therefore we have free will. Also, no one can be born or raised into the church. God bless you.
@odiewan58 The Qur'an says: "Fight and slay the pagans [Christians] wherever ye find them and seize them, confine them, and "LIE" in wait for them in every place of ambush" (Surah 9:5)
Genesis chapter 3:4“You will not surely die,” the serpent said to the woman. 5“For God knows that when you eat of it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil.”
odiewan 58 is quoting what other atheists have told him. Remember the best lies are very close to the truth.
@timothymochley Don't worry, she's not the only one who experienced tha. There are thousands of them telling the same things.They don't need any check up, actually, because what they are saying can also be found in the Bible.I suggest that you read other testimonies about heaven and hell for more info.
@sg51863 i wish i could believe you..but how much research have you done into non-christian heaven hell experiences? of course you can say they are fake or invented to deceive, but from an outsider's view they are all equally valid/invalid. And something being biblical doesnt make it true. There's tons of stuff in the bible we know to be false, or at least the bible contradicts itself enough to be false on a number of occasions. Buddha also described trips to heaven and hell btw.
@timothymochley Rejecting God's gift of salvation (through believing and accepting Jesus as Lord of your life) is the worst thing that a man could ever do. Eternity is at stake here. Hope you will give God a chance to reveal Himself to you.
@timothymochley "tons of stuff in the bible known to be false"? Yes, maybe when you read the books between Malachi and Matthew. The Bible has 66 books and anything added will be questionable. Can you name some contradictions? Have you seen the buddhist monk who rose from the dead after going to hell. He said he saw Gautama in hell. Watch for yourself- MONK SEES BUDDHA IN HELL AND LIVES TO TELL (Guatama), he is now risking his life because of his testimony.
@42lynchmob Rejecting God's gift of salvation (through believing and accepting Jesus as Lord of your life) is the worst thing that a man could ever do. Eternity is at stake here. Hope you will give God a chance to reveal Himself to you.
Geez, It's 2012. You think she would have taken her cell and shot some hot video. Now that would have been impressive. Oh, and an interview with Satan and Jesus. Kind of a pro-con sort of thing....And since Jesus told her to write a book, does he get 15% of sales ?
@odiewan58 Jesus doesn't need money. All He wants is for believers to tell about HIm as Savior and Lord, His word, heaven and hell. etc. That's why He's telling people to share their experience with others. This is a big warning to all.
@Firequacker I'm fairly certain under almost any moral theory, the guy that promises to do something in order to get someone to do something, then goes back on their promise, is less moral than the one that fulfills his end of the bargain.
Those simple terms agree. However, the real situation is much different than simply "the guy that promises to do something in order to get someone to do something then goes back on that promise".
Doesn't the very claim that people went to Hell and came back (as opposed to just seeing Hell in a vision or revelation) contradict Christian teaching? I could be totally wrong here, but I think Christianity teaches that you either go to Hell or you don't, at judgement, either right after death or after a later resurrection. There is no saving grace once you're in Hell. Sure doesn't make God look very nice, but that's what they teach, no?
And when 2012 has passed and once again, like every year of history before, some things happened and others didn't, they will reinterpret their predictions and make new ones, once again. Like every year of history before. I'm not sure if it's ignorance, insanity, or just impudence driving them to commit to the same fail over and over again.
@blackwolf1200 there will be FAMINES, DISEASE, AND EARTHQUAKES in various places. 8 All these are the beginning of sorrows.
9 “Then they will deliver you up to tribulation and kill you, and YOU WILL BE HATED BY ALL NATION'S FOR MY NAME'S SAKE. 10 And then many will be offended, will betray one another, and will hate one another. 11 Then MANY FALSE PROPHETS WILL RISE UP and deceive many. 12 And because lawlessness will abound, the love of many will grow cold.
@Firequacker You're amusing. Don't you think the people living during the Thirty Years War, the Black Death or the Second World War had enough to believe the same nonsense? Enough to make dozens of prophecies fit whatever event they picked? Do you honestly think that this time we live in is any more remarkable than theirs? How myopic could you be?
Disturbing trials, deceptive governments, false prophets, famine, earthquakes... yawn. Nothing new, same today as in the year 1012.
@blackwolf1200 Rejecting God's gift of salvation (through believing and accepting Jesus as Lord of your life) is the worst thing that a man could ever do. Eternity is at stake here. Hope you will give God a chance to reveal Himself to you.
Pls. watch this:Three (3) prophecies converge into one: Last Pope, Last President of the US, Ariel Sharon, Messiah's name revealed. The Lord is coming RIGHT AWAY. Please don't get yourself distracted by the world, FOCUS on God more. Keep eternity in mind.
Hurry.Jesus is coming for his people! ask the LORD for forgiveness.repent away from your sins. Believe in Jesus Christ, that he is the savior,the son of God,and that he died on the cross for our sins.Know that Jesus loves you. share Jesus's word to the world.jesus wants you saved, so you can spend eternity in Heaven with the LORD. Hurry. he will come soon, when the time comes.
@twilovermaddie Your comment has been echoing for the past two thousand years. Honestly it's more likely an asteroid will hit us than Jesus coming back by this point. You better hope that you're right, because if it turns out one of the other thousands of gods is the "actual" god, you're fucked too.
@halonone well i dont doubt my beliefs i have faith. and WHEN Jesus comes back for me if i live to the point, then im going to heaven. im going to be nice and reccomend a Baptist or christian church. just try it. itll change your life trust me youll learn so much
@twilovermaddie I'm sorry you think you know something about me. I was a Christian for half my life. I have attended Baptist, Methodist, and non-denominational churches at various points in my life. For a little while I attended Catholic church with my cousins. I became an atheist after finding I could not defend my beliefs with logical reasoning. "Faith" is not a substitute for knowledge.
@halonone in genisis,(the bible) god takes one of adam's ribs while hes sleeping. he used the rib to make eve, the first woman ever. in present time, boys always have one less rib than girls. Faith IS knowledge. even if you dont believe in god, he believes in you.
@twilovermaddie Now I don't know if you're trolling me or what, but men and women both have 12 sets of ribs. Look it up. There are medical books, physiology books, x-rays... you are simply wrong about this. And this is a perfect demonstration of why we must rely on knowledge from observation and testing (science) and not a 2,000 year old book. Your comment makes you look as silly as Ray Comfort holding a banana.
@twilovermaddie What a sad person you are; rather than admit you were wrong, you try to again inflict your point of view on me and try to make me feel like a bad person. You have a lot to learn and I pity you and your imaginary friend.
@halonone well i guess i cant help you then. im sorry you dont believe the same way i and thousands of other people do. i was raised a christain so i dont know how you see life so im jujst going to say god bless you and move on
It's sad because though you may have heard a lot about hell (Angelica Zambrano, 7 Colum- bians, 23 mins in hell,Real people, real death, real hell, etc.) still you resist the idea of it.If you will miss what God has prepared for you in heaven then it will not be His fault anymore.He has given you a lot of chances.Afterlife is the real life, earth life is temporary. Your soul doesn't die, only two destinations, better choose the best not the worst before it's too late.What if MKB is RIGHT?She is.
@sg51863 If MKB is right, then the Bible is wrong, since she contradicts it regularly. It's sad, because you've heard all these stories and are ignoring that they contradict each other and many times themselves or the Bible, and you'll waste the only life you have following the words of long dead superstitious men in the hopes of a reward you'll never receive. What if MKB is wrong? She is.
@HonestDiscussioner If your hand causes you to stumble, cut it off. It is better for you to enter life maimed than with two hands to go into hell, where the fire never goes out.
(Mark 9:42-44);But I tell you that anyone who is angry with a brother or sister will be subject to judgment. Again, anyone who says to a brother or sister, ‘Raca,’ is answerable to the court. And anyone who says, ‘You fool!’ will be in danger of the fire of hell.(Matthew 5:21-23)
@HonestDiscussioner “And they will go out and look on the dead bodies of those who rebelled against me; the worms that eat them will not die, the fire that burns them will not be quenched, and they will be loathsome to all mankind.” (Isaiah 66:23-24) How did they contradict each other? They're telling the same thing:Hell is Real.Is it a waste of time to live a godly life,a life with love and concern for others? Khalil,Nasir Saddiki & Muhamed testified how Jesus met them,now they are Christians.
@HonestDiscussioner Pls. watch this:Three (3) prophecies converge into one: Last Pope, Last President of the US, Ariel Sharon, Messiah's name revealed. The Lord is coming RIGHT AWAY. Please don't get yourself distracted by the world, FOCUS on God more. Keep eternity in mind.
@TinyFire1 Pls watch:3 prophecies converge in 2012. Last President, Last Pope, Ariel Sharon Prophecy. Messiah Revealed. Signs of Jesus' coming are all around us and He will be coming back for His people.Angelica Zambrano who died for 23 hours was told by Jesus that He won't be coming back SOON but RIGHT AWAY. He told her to tell everyone. Yes it's a date with Jesus.Christians will be raptured in a twinkling of an eye.
@TinyFire1 Rejecting God's gift of salvation (through believing and accepting Jesus as Lord of your life) is the worst thing that a man could ever do. Eternity is at stake here. Hope you will give God a chance to reveal Himself to you.
@HonestDiscussioner --actually if your "open" to Real Truth, meaning you can accept if given the proper information/evidence that you could be wrong and that there is a heaven and hell then I'd be glad to give you the info/scientific evidence, if your totally against knowing the truth no matter what evidence is put in front of you well I'll leave ya be---blessings
@oceaneyess67 Of course I could be wrong, and I hope given that speech you feel the same way about your position. Feel free to give me your evidence . . and if I am to refute it shall I assume you'd be willing to reconsider your belief system? Perhaps you base it on more than that, give me ALL your facts then, and we'll see how open you are to reason.
@HonestDiscussioner There are already thousands of people testifying about the afterlife and YOU ARE STILL RESISTING IT? We have done our part. sir, God also did His part. In front of you is a testimony of the afterlife. Before you is HEAVEN & HELL; GOD & SATAN. "Choose for yourselves this day whom you will serve,But as for me and my household, we will serve the LORD.”Joshua 24:14,16
@sg51863 Ah, so you believe the people who have had near death experiences are proof of the afterlife? Unfortunately for you, studies show that people who have these experiences have elevated CO2 levels in their brain, which is known to cause visions and hallucinations. It's a natural phenomenon. Not to mention, they don't always see YOUR god when they die.
@HonestDiscussioner You're correct, the afterlife occurs post-judgment day - any spiritual interaction with beings other than God cannot be good because they must be familial entities - souls which have not died in peace, to sleep until the day of judgment, when the Book of Life shall be read to God on his White Throne.
@HonestDiscussioner They had the same hallucinations? same stories? same amount of CO2 in the brain? What about animals? Do they have the same visions when they have NDE?Ok if you don't believe the afterlife, where will you go after you die?
@sg51863 No, they DIDN'T have the same hallucinations. That's the point. You think when Hindu's have an NDE they see Jesus? No, see their gods, they see what they expect to see.
I don't know what animals see or if they have hallucinations. They aren't very clear with their communication.
Where do I go when I die? Same place a computer goes when it gets melted into slag. It doesn't exist anymore, and nor will I when I die. Not a nice thought, but the truth doesn't have to be nice.
@HonestDiscussioner Sad, that shows you haven't doing research. You are just sticking to your own opinion, What do you think of thousands of people who testify of the afterlife, lower class of humans and no-brainers?Can somebody afford to lie after experiencing death and going back to life? Of course, they won't bother to tell a lie nor tell stories that are useless anyway. They went back to earth and are warning us.Only stubborn and proud people will ignore their death&life testimonies. Sad
@sg51863 "Only stubborn and proud people will ignore their death&life testimonies."
Ah, so by definition you are stubborn and proud, You ignore the testimony of Vasudev Pandey who saw the Hindu god of Death when he died, and the testimony of Chhajju Bania who saw the same, or do you take them as evidence of the Hindu religion being true?
What research didn't I do exactly. You are the one who appears to not have done their research.
@HonestDiscussioner They saw the god of death? so they didn't see Jesus Christ. Jesus is the God of Life, He is the Way,the Truth and the Life. not the god of death. Jesus loves everyone and He is using people to reach out, He is revealing Himself to everyone.That's the reason why you always have God in your mind.Unfortunately,you resist His call and exert a lot of effort to prove that He doesn't exist at all.How long will you tire yourself doing that resistance to His invitation to be saved?
@sg51863 No, they didn't see Jesus Christ. They saw the god they expected to see when they died. So since near death experiences changed based on the cultural and religious beliefs of the person, and medically they only occur in those with high level of CO2 in their blood which is known to cause visions, why should I be led to the conclusion this is Jesus reaching out? Wouldn't everyone who died only see Jesus, and wouldn't there be no medical explanation?
@HonestDiscussioner The devil is a liar and hell is for him and his angels. However, he is all-out in deceiving humans so they'll join him in hell and suffer together. Do yourself a favor by asking WHAT IF. What if hell is real, what if there's God, what if afterlife is true, what if I will die and not sure of my eternity, what if everything I chose to believe is a lie from the evil one, what if the real life is the afterlife, what if...
@sg51863 "The devil is a liar and hell is for him and his angels. However, he is all-out in deceiving humans so they'll join him in hell and suffer together. "
Okay, so how do you know YOU'RE not the one being deceived? Do yourself a favor by asking WHAT IF. If Hinduism is true, if you're not following the right path, what if everything you've chosen to believe is a lie from the evil one?
@HonestDiscussioner I have a basis for what I believe. The Bible has always been around for many many years and it leads people to holy and loving life. Doesn't your conscience testify that holiness and love are both good virtues?What will I lose if I choose to believe the Bible, it has done me a lot of good.The Bible tells about God.
@HonestDiscussioner "For all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God & all are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus.God presented Christ as a sacrifice of atonement,through the shedding of his blood—to be received by FAITH (Rom3) "For it is by grace you have been saved, through FAITH—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God—not by works, so that no one can boast." (Eph 2:8-9)
@sg51863 After we die we either get cremated or we rot. Then again, there is an off-chance that you could get stuck in a glacier and be frozen for several thousand years as is there a chance that you could get stuck in a low-oxygen bog and eventually get fossilized. If you were a betting man, I would go with rotting though.
@1n354a ".. It is better for you to enter life maimed than with two hands to go into hell, where the fire never goes out. And if your foot causes you to stumble, cut it off. It is better for you to enter life crippled than to have two feet and be thrown into hell &if your eye causes you to stumble, pluck it out. It is better for you to enter the kingdom of God with one eye than to have two eyes & be thrown into hell,where “‘the worms that eat them do not die,and the fire is not quenched.’Mk 9:49
@sg51863 so what you are saying is that just prior to death we should rip one or both of our eyes out in case we encounter (post death) fire worms that will will never be able to drink enough water? How do you suggest we guess that we are due to die such that we can prep whatever materials we need in order to rip our eye(s) out? And please clarify why the act of ripping our eyes out helps our lifeless corpse avoid eternally thirsty fire worms....and since we are dead, why we should care...
@1n354a It was Jesus who said those words not me.That verse show the seriousness of sinning.Jesus died for us to save us from the power and penalty of sins.Having Jesus in our lives will help us hate and avoid sins.Sin is a curse and it's death in itself.The spiritually dead will not be able to enter heaven.
@sg51863 You would have a hard time convincing me that Jesus ever existed, let alone said those things. Biblical accounts were written by unknown authors decades after Jesus supposedly lived; they didn't know him, they didn't know anybody who knew him. There is no contemporary account of this Jesus character. He is as real as Robin Hood is.
As such he didn't say those words, he didn't die for our sins, and having him in our lives will do nothing for him.
@1n354a "But I tell you that anyone who is angry with a brother or sister will be subject to judgment. Again, anyone who says to a brother or sister, ‘Raca,’ is answerable to the court. And anyone who says, ‘You fool!’ will be in danger of the fire of hell.-Matt 9:22. After dying,body decays or burnt but the soul goes to a destination:heaven or hell depending on who you served when you're still on earth.
@sg51863 What if you are an only child...or if your brother/sister is an adopted child, so they are not really your brother or sister? What if they are a half brother or sister? How about if they are a hermaphrodite such that they are your brother and sister at the same time? What if you didn't really say 'Raca' but they thought they heard it and accused you of saying it? Or what if you wrote it down instead of saying it?
I eagerly await your mind-altering response!! RAmen!
@1n354a I'm doing this for you. I'm saved already and am sure to enjoy the kingdom of God in the future.Haha I'm just doing you a favor, telling you the truth because the truth sets people free."So if the Son sets you free, you will be free indeed."John 8:35-37."Jesus replied, “Very truly I tell you, no one can see the kingdom of God unless they are born again" Jn 3:3
@sg51863 Just so you know, when you (or anybody else) says things like "I'm saved already" we hear "I'm incredibly gullible and lack any critical thinking skills". And when you say that then quote scripture you look twice the fool.
That being said, you are doing me a favor: providing me with endless amounts of entertainment on an otherwise boring day.
@1n354a That verse showed the existence of hell and the key to hell is sin. Jesus came to pay for our sins.If we will just repent and accept His work done in Calvary and believe Him, then we will become children of God.He didn't make it complicated. He wants everyone to be with Him forever.It's not about bro/sis etc. it's about eternity with or without God.If you don't believe, what if hell is real?You will be in indescribable agony FOREVER bcoz you choose not to believe God and His word.
@sg51863 If your god is real and it is the kind of being that would cause somebody indescribable agony forever simply because they didn't believe that the god existed (due to a complete lack of supporting evidence) then I think I'll go with the 'without-god' option for all eternity. Who would want to hang out with such a jack-ass for all time?
Love me or burn for all time is not a choice given by a loving, caring being....
@1n354a It'll not be God who'll drag you to hell bcoz you didn't believe Him. It'll be satan the father of all lies whose doing all to make people join him there. HELL is for satan &demons not for humans."The one who does what is sinful is of the devil,because the devil has been sinning from the beginning.The reason the Son of God appeared was to destroy the devil’s work."1Jn 3."Be alert & of sober mind.Your enemy the devil prowls around like a roaring lion looking for someone to devour."
@sg51863 LOL so your all loving all powerful god who cares for me deeply and wants me to be part of his club beyond all else will allow some demon to drag me off to eternal pain and suffering? Pardon my language, but your concept of a god is a serious dick.
@1n354a "For all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God & all are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus.God presented Christ as a sacrifice of atonement,through the shedding of his blood—to be received by FAITH (Rom3) "For it is by grace you have been saved, through FAITH—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God—not by works, so that no one can boast." (Eph 2:8-9)
@HonestDiscussioner Rejecting God's gift of salvation (through believing and accepting Jesus as Lord of your life) is the worst thing that a man could ever do. Eternity is at stake here. Hope you will give God a chance to reveal Himself to you.
@sg51863 If you think eternal torture is worthy of a person who denies god's existence, despite a person's moral standing, you can have your god and his afterlife, because you are a cruel person and so is your maker.
@halonone Hell is merely described as an eternity away from God, where our desires determine our suffering, for none of them are fulfilled. If you have perfect moral standing, but no belief in God or Jesus, then you will have a pretty neutral afterlife.
@halonone "For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God—not by works, so that no one can boast." (Eph 2:8-9)
"For all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God & all are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus.God presented Christ as a sacrifice of atonement,through the shedding of his blood—to be received by faith (Rom3)
Free will is God's rule. Even the demons must bow to His Will. So hell is real. I don't have to go there & neither do u! Hell not made for us but the demons!
@HonestDiscussioner Because I was such a great loss. I was a wiccan witch, reader of tarot cards. I got born-again. Satan doesn't like to lose. By the way this was 30 years ago. A smaller demon had already attached itself to my back. Ur never supposed to give the devil or his fallen ones ur back. All spiritual armor is on the front of you. Demon could not have suceeded. The Precious Blood of Jesus covers a born again believer. U belong to Jesus. God's property not satan's.
@1in3searchlight Yeah I'm sorry I just don't buy it. None of that makes any sense. I was born again many years ago, and through many years and searching I found a lack of God rather than any sense of him. That spiritual armor would only be in the front and all the devil has to do is move around the back makes little sense.
@HonestDiscussioner didn't say u had to believe me..just my story. Maybe u just didn't bug God enough. Persistence is a key also a personal relationship works out pretty good 2. When i 1st got saved I used to say the sinner's prayer all day long then one day after 3 or 4 months the Holy Spirit said "ur saved! can we go on there's more! God talks to me a lot. Be still and know that I am God. Also was a very good Catholic girl till the wiccan thing.
@1in3searchlight I tried for years, prayed, read the bible. All my efforts only drove me away. Wasted years. The video I will be posting today will go over why. Research has vindicated me. For example, this "satan" you talk about seems to be a perversion of scripture, the only real instance in the Bible he appears would be he tempted Jesus. All or at least all other mentions for which the legends are based either strictly allegorical or misinterpreted.
@HonestDiscussioner Haven't u forgotten Isiah? Satan's name used to be Lucifer. I ask u to go back & read the Book of Job then Revelations..do tell me it ain't so! It's the end of the world my friend. Take a stand & be with God! As Mike Townsend so well sang don't choose and u choose anyway. Have u read 23 " in hell? Yes well Satan is quite the perversion himself. Just whose idea do u think it was to mate with the daughters of the earth? He's like the commander-in-chief of the fallen ones!
@HonestDiscussioner read further 12-15 for did he not think to overthrow God & be as the most high? Was this not the cause of a war in heaven referenced in Rev.12:7
@1in3searchlight No it isn't. Oh don't get me wrong, Revelations is possibly referencing that quote, though I can't be certain. What is certain is that Isaiah is referencing the King of Babylon in 14:3-4. It specifically says "tell the King of Babylon this". The overthrow God is likely a reference to the Tower of Babel, and the ziggurats the Babylonians built. The Babel story goes that a tower was built to reach heaven, and this story is i n Isaiah 14 is referencing that.
@HonestDiscussioner well 2 bad 4 u that u interpret it that way..besides it ain't Lucifer who decides my fate rather it is God. All of this discussion is so pointless since u have missed the main item. God sent His ONLY SON to die 4 our sins so that we would be forgiven & acceptable in His Sight. U have missed God's free gift, salvation. Do u not understand the times we live in? Know u not that God's wrath is being unleashed against the whole world? Consider it a moment. What if u r wrong?
@1in3searchlight This isn't an "interpretation". It says "you will take up this taunt against the king of Babylon:"
Then it goes into it. What room is there for an interpretation that it is a supernatural being he's talking about?
That it would otherwise go against your preconceived notions.
The times we live in are bad, but these aren't the worst times by far. Economy sucks, but our standard of living is far higher, and natural disasters aren't occurring much more frequently than in past
@HonestDiscussioner.Like Judge Judy says..don't pee on my leg & tell me it's raining. I'm almost 60 years old fella & never have we faced so many problems on so many fronts at once! Everything has increased & not in a good way! I come from when u prayed in school & the 10 commandments were on the wall. Don't give me guff..This little Catholic girl went to a Jewish kindergarten where my very Jewish teacher was moved to learn & pray the Our Father with me !
@1in3searchlight You're sixty years old? Try studying the past six HUNDRED years and then tell me this is the worst time.
"I come from when u prayed in school & the 10 commandments were on the wall."
Yes, and we have advanced to the point where religion is not pushed on kids, where they are not indoctrinated. They are still welcome to believe things, and those things are still in religious schools, just not state schools. This is a good thing, not a bad thing.
@HonestDiscussioner R u saying that we r no more civilized or advanced than 600 yrs. ago? Next u'll tell me the Holocaust never happened. I just told u..u should read what I said. If the 10 commandments were our moral code then what exactedly do u offer in their place? Why r u so scared by the words of God? Isn't it right & just to expect that 1 would honor their parents, not kill, not steal, not commit adultery, not lie, not covert, not build idols that can't walk or talk .
@1in3searchlight "R u saying that we r no more civilized or advanced than 600 yrs. age"
Huh? No, I said the opposite. We're a lot better off now than we were 600 years ago.
Most if not all of the 10 commandments appear in the much older Egyptian Book of the Dead. You're following a copy. I am not scared of the Bible, it's merely an old book written by fallible men. What I offer in its place is research into what makes a society more healthy, based on facts, not dogma.
@HonestDiscussioner There r no more pharoahs they worshipped false gods despite having all the plagues thrown at them. I SHOULD SAY HAVE U NO FEAR OF HIM WHO CAN KILL UR BODY, SPIRIT & SOUL?
@1in3searchlight "There r no more pharoahs they worshipped false gods despite having all the plagues thrown at them."
That story was likely embellished, at least. There is no historical or archaeological evidence to suggest that the Egyptians ever held Hebrew slaves, nor that there was ever any mass extinctions in that area. Something as catastrophic as was depicted in Exodus would have certainly left a mark. There's nothing in either language to suggest they spent time around one another.
@1in3searchlight Yes, all very tragic things. You're picking the worst situations and appealing to emotion. Have you heard of the Black Plauge? 33% of the entire population being wiped out?
Look, you keep coming up with reasons, both Biblical and historical, that I keep refuting. Your response is to move on to even more things rather than address what I've said. I know it sucks to hear, but you should realize by now that the things you've been taught are simply not true.
@HonestDiscussioner Indeed but I refer to tragedies intentionally caused by man not bad hygiene/poor living conditions. About Egypt & Moses u should reference HI's programs. Things I have been taught? No, No silly foolish man things I believe & know to be true. I told u I have a relationship with God. Just call me Blind faith cuz I won't back down! God is Just, Good, Righteous and Truth. Appealing to emotion? Can u honestly look @ a child's jaw that has been blown apart & not be moved?
@1in3searchlight "Indeed but I refer to tragedies intentionally caused by man not bad hygiene/poor living conditions. "
Right, even considering the larger scale mass-murderings, we're still a more peaceful society than we were 200 years ago. Back in the good old Bible days you were much more likely to be murdered or die as a solider than you are today.
@1in3searchlight I'm talking about the entire world as a whole. Certainly rates go up in the city and down in the suburbs, but if we're approaching this honestly, we'll take the entire world as a whole.
@1in3searchlight dutchsinse on you tube you want to view global earthquake overview the link u want is go under see more he has it there. European site offers more info on earthquakes El Huerro, Canary Islands, Eastern Turkey. Also scott.net offers news of climate change, fire in the sky..for the rest of the news u don't always get. Gotta go to work.
@HonestDiscussioner So when might this "research" be done? What do recommend 4 now? Of course men r fallable, we all r especially without God to guide us.
We've been doing it. It's called psychology and sociology, along with other sciences like nutritional biology and neurology. Did you know that our decisions are often made unconsciously up to 8 seconds before we are consciously aware of our decision?
God, if he existed, would be infallible, but he doesn't exist. Or if he does, he had very little input in the Bible which is riddled with errors. Shall I list some of them for you?
@HonestDiscussioner The depth of the soul of man no one can measure. I'm a RN I know all about science but many times science can get confused, be stymied, yes & be surprised. Not all things go according to man's plan except maybe chemtrails & weather modification. Would u call that research for the betterment of mankind?
@1in3searchlight No, the things I listed are. Of course we get it wrong, but science, unlike religion, corrects itself when it is wrong. Science is the reason we have such a long lifespan, evolutionary theory key to helping us develop new anti-biotics, heart transplants, etc. If you're an RN you should know the value of science, most of your training was developed through it.
@HonestDiscussioner Yes we've progressed to C. diff, MRSA, flesh-eating bacteria, ebola so many goodies to choose from. We also can thank science for the hard choices that sometimes we must make or do not want to make. Surely u have heard about octo-mom. Some moms are presented with a choice to be made who will live who will die.yet I have comforted those who cry to have a live delivery. I still live with memories of a mom who lied about her weeks of pregnancy & the MD who helped her lie.
@1in3searchlight "Yes we've progressed to C. diff, MRSA, flesh-eating bacteria, ebola so many goodies to choose from."
As you say, those are diseases, not the intentional will of man. Yes, some of these have developed resistances to the drugs we've developed for them, but by far more lives have been saved.
@1in3searchlight If I am correct, these practices should not be perfect, so you're examples do not refute my position. However if you are correct, Christian areas should be at least slightly better off and more moral than non-religious areas. Unfortunately, the opposite is true. Religion is strongly associated with teen pregnancies, violent crime, STD's, poverty, etc. This is only counting the 1st world, it doesn't incorporate Muslim dominated theocracies like Saudi Arabia or Iran.
@HonestDiscussioner No baby should be born with everything completed except eyelashes & eyebrows only to die. New antibiotics, drugs Don't u know that the FDA lets pharmacuticals do their own research for a fee? How compromised is that? U talk religion I talk a personal relationship with God & His Son.
@1in3searchlight Like I said, it isn't a perfect system, and I wish it was much improved. There is too much money in politics, on this we agree on. That does not discount the scientific method, nor the incredible benefits it has bestowed upon mankind.
"I talk a personal relationship with God & His Son."
Which incorporates religion, unless your relationship does not supposed to inform your moral basis, at which point all of your arguments would become invalid.
@HonestDiscussioner In high school anybody offended by our prayer was encouraged to leave until we were done! Some healthcare workers have been forbidden to wear their crosses or get let go! Graduations lack prayer because ignorant people stop them! MY PEOPLE DIE DAILY FOR A LACK OF KNOWLEGE! Teenage pregnancies, STD's, family & drug problems have increased beyond believability. Why? No respect for life beginning or end. i am adopted. My mom let me live! & don't start with legalities.
@1in3searchlight " In high school anybody offended by our prayer was encouraged to leave until we were done! "
That's not enough. That means you either have to be excluded from the group if you aren't a believer. Students are welcome to pray, but the teacher and school have no right to dictate a prayer time.
Oh, and teen pregnancies and STDS? That's because of Christians. The more religious an area is, the more likely those things are to occur. That's a fact.
@HonestDiscussioner Special ed students r excluded from the group & r made to stand out like a sore thumb. Oh BTW we loved our Jewish kids..no tests before or during Jewish holidays! There was respect in my city. Wut? Wut/ that's not enuff? Really ur generation whines 2 much..u expect everything always will be fair? I'd like a source for those stats about pregnancies & STD's please. Lived in Denver..didn't stop abortion clinics but it's the Bible belt.
@1in3searchlight "Special ed students r excluded from the group & r made to stand out like a sore thumb"
As a former participant in a masters of education program, I can tell you that the discussion over inclusion is only just beginning. I'm against it, but that isn't to say there aren't good arguments on both sides. The issue of ostracizing students is a problem, but I feel the issue of pacing overrides it. cont.
@HonestDiscussioner having had 2 special ed students I can tell u the social effects of "pacing' amount to social ostracizion that many students carry into their 20's & 30's. U forget that u are dealing with other mainstreamed children. Often smaller school systems do nothing more than stick the student in a corner in the same classroom. It isn't said but the social implications are immense. Perhaps in the rest of the country this isn't so but not in Me. A master's is commendable.
@1in3searchlight I said I was only a participant. I was almost finished, doing my pre-student teaching, when I ate the Eucharist a few seconds later than I should have so they kicked me out.
@HonestDiscussionerLOL My father's brother got kicked out of the priesthood twice for smoking then demoted to a brother then he left & got married. Nana was heartbroken a good Cathlic family should have a sister, brother or a priest. I was told I talked to much What a lovely sunrise here Orange stripe with yellow under and sky blue above seen through large maple trees.
@1in3searchlight " the social effects of "pacing' amount to social ostracizion that many students carry into their 20's & 30's."
Are you sure that is due solely to keeping them in separate classes? Some of these students are physically or mentally incapable of controlling their outbursts, do you believe mainstreaming them would remove that ostracism?
@HonestDiscussioner i think er all know when we're being shined on,when we're being mistreated. When u r a child & sense that adults r treating u unfairly with bias what I ask can be ur response but to defend urself. I am not talking about not being able to control oneself. Not all special ed students these days r there for these reasons u have stated but learning disabilities which means u learn differently than others. In many ways I think it incumbent upon the teacher to be in control.
@1in3searchlight "Not all special ed students these days r there for these reasons u have stated but learning disabilities which means u learn differently than others."
Well I don't think everyone with a learning disability should be separated. Especially since learning disability is so ill-defined. I think with proper tutoring they can keep up with the rest of the students.
@HonestDiscussioner mainstreaming can be difficult if reading is ur problem. My daughter was very much tutored in reading beginning at the age of 7. However the dyslexia still was not found till she was a high school senior & I also know of another student not 2 far away with same problem . 3 different school districts 20-30 miles apart but same problems?
@HonestDiscussioner of themselves for they r the adults mature & educated. Just as not all of my fellow professionals can successfully deal well with problem patients many can. We see a lot of behaviors.
@HonestDiscussioner however u haven't raised these children & I have found teacher's who despite education often do not understand or believe the learning disabilities they deal with. Often students are 2 terrified, unaware, or quite simply have found that their word will not be believed when they are mistreated. Unless the parent actively advocates for their child & I mean is present in the classroom. Children r cruel to each other in or out of school.
@HonestDiscussioner Is that why my daughter was diagnosed as having ADD but in fact is bi-polar. She was also found to have dyslexia in her senior year discovered by the school she transferred to? It wasn;t that lots of testing,pscy evals hadn't been done. the social effects of ostrasing students can last into the 20's,30's. it is a type of child abuse. Would u like to be treated this way? Often educators forget this issue is emotional & can be a tearing down of the soul on a daily basis.
@1in3searchlight " Is that why my daughter was diagnosed as having ADD but in fact is bi-polar. "
ADD is overdiagnosed, this is true. I'm sure we can all point to many teachers that make mistake, but I would be willing to bet the majority of them are well meaning. Given that the greatest social predictor for societal health is education, teaching should be a premier occupation, with salaries double what they are now, and training to match. It should be DIFFICULT get your teaching certification.
EVERYBODY beilive in hell cuz its real beilive me plzzz u dont want to go there if u dont beilive me watch 23 mins in hell cuz when ur in hell u cant get out..
NathanaelADavis 1 week ago
@HonestDiscussioner I understand why you don't believe in Hell. However, you can't actually call yourself HonestDiscussioner when you haven't really been through the experience. It's like saying you're honest and then saying that the wind doesn't blow when you haven't been outside before. You don't know.
K12fromPA 3 weeks ago
@K12fromPA I am honest. I don't say "there is no possibility hell exists". I say "there is no reason to believe hell exists". Personal testimony is not a reason to believe hell exists, nor is any other currently available fact or argument, to my knowledge.
HonestDiscussioner 3 weeks ago
@ MyChainsAreGone7777..Reject....You bet. It's not a "Gift", It's believe this without ANY evidence or be tortured FOREVER. Not what I call a choice. More like a gun to you head. Do this or die. So that right there kills "free will". Oh, and I was "brought up" in a Baptist Church. Baptized at 9 years old. Had that Garbage stuffed down my throat 3 days a week, including "Pastors Class". Do yourself a favor. Do some REAL research into religious history....Peace. :)
odiewan58 1 month ago
@odiewan58 What are you trying to say? you're being kinda vague...
K12fromPA 3 weeks ago
besides that priceless piece of testimonial evidence did this person also bring samples? I don't know... hell rocks? vile of liquid fire from the famous lake? a piece of a hoof from a devil? a horn? a chain? : )
Biscaine 1 month ago
@Biscaine Not to my knowledge . . no.
HonestDiscussioner 1 month ago
@HonestDiscussioner, thanks! could you imagine? HA ha ha : ) NOW that would have been "real", " credible" evidence.
Biscaine 1 month ago
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@HonestDiscussioner (1) WRONG. Look into the secret societies that these same politicians calling for a New World Order are apart of. They are Luciferian occultists with an agenda to abolish all spiritual and religious aspects of society to then usher in the anti-Christ who will rule over mankind through a tyrannical Luciferian one-world government. (This is their demonic religious belief and agenda.)
Yrhp8268 1 month ago
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@HonestDiscussioner (2) But first, they have to construct a global secular society. Look at the back of a 1-dollar bill. They hide their symbolism in plain view. You see the Illuminati pyramid with the Freemasonic all-seeing eye at the top (aka the "eye of Lucifer"). Underneath, it reads "novus ordo seclorum," which is latin for a "new secular order." Above the eye, it reads "annuit coeptis" which means "he favors our undertaking." ... "He" being Lucifer.
Yrhp8268 1 month ago
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@HonestDiscussioner (3) Please, I urge you to look into the nefarious Luciferian religious beliefs of the politicians & elites currently running our world. Watch YouTube documentaries: "The Age of Evil" & "Lucifer god of the Illuminai." They will explain it to you much better than I can. Also, do a search for the New World Order & one-world government.
Watch videos of our politicians calling for a "new world order" at:
h t t p : / / 911truthseeker . webs . com / thenewworldorder . htm
Yrhp8268 1 month ago
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Yrhp8268 1 month ago
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@HonestDiscussioner "Satan and his rebellious host will thus prove to have become the direct Saviors and Creators of divine man. Thus Satan, once he ceases to be viewed in the superstitious spirit of the church, grows into the grandiose image. It is Satan who is the God of our planet, and the only God."
--H.P. Blavatsky, highly-respected Illuminati occultist and author of "The Secret Doctrine."
(Quoted from her book: "The Secret Doctrine," pg 215)
Yrhp8268 1 month ago
@sg51863....Theology (N) : The field of study and analysis of MAKE BELIEVE; For the purpose of spinning reality to conform to the human imagination, so the control of others can be achieved......P.S. Dude, lighten up. You know the the Jewish God of the desert is just another story from ancient goat and sheep herders. He is no more real than Zeus, Apollo, Mithra, Ra, Ect...Peace.
odiewan58 1 month ago
You are so bad at lying. That's why they call you the HonestDiscussioner ;)
RuinSonic 1 month ago
If aborted babies automatically go to heaven, which is waaaaaay better than this crappy earth apparently, why are christians so anti-abortion? wouldnt god want to raise the odds of more people getting to heaven? The system seems rigged to get as many people as possible into hell. Never heard of jesus? Hell. Heard of him through a priest who was also a paedophile and so werent convinced? Hell. Suicide because u had schizophrenia or depression? Hell. Insulted the holy spirit? Hell...
timothymochley 1 month ago
@timothymochley Well, that would depend on your theology. It changes between denominations. For example, some Orthodox churches claims its your mental state that determines where you go. Catholics give allowances for the mentally ill or those not in their right mind when they commit suicide. If we are talking evangelical, then yeah, point well made.
HonestDiscussioner 1 month ago
@sg51863..I was raised a Christian, but unlike most Christians, I actually read the Bible. That's the fastest way I know of to become an Atheist. Peace....
odiewan58 1 month ago 5
@odiewan58 amen to that lol
timothymochley 1 month ago
@odiewan58 Rejecting God's gift of salvation (through believing and accepting Jesus as Lord of your life) is the worst thing that a man could ever do. Eternity is at stake here. Hope you will give God a chance to reveal Himself to you.
sg51863 1 month ago
@sg51863 We're not rejecting God's gift of salvation, We're rejecting the idea that there even is such an offer.
HonestDiscussioner 1 month ago 3
@HonestDiscussioner Kindly watch Life Beyond the Grave ~ Dead Man in Morgue Returns to Life. You may not believe this story, but this is just one of the thousands of stories about the afterlife and an encounter with Jesus Christ our Lord and Savior.
sg51863 1 month ago
@sg51863 Been there. Done that. You know when Hindu's have an NDE they see their Hindu gods and not Jesus, right? Do you also know that studies have shown those that have NDE's have a high level of CO2 in the blood, an condition that is known to cause visions?
And if you claim it's the evil one tricking the Hindu's, I can claim its the evil one tricking the Christians.
HonestDiscussioner 1 month ago 3
@HonestDiscussioner Kindly watch: Warning to Atheists, Islam, Hindu, Jewish, So called Christians, Porn Stars, and everybody else ! The devil is against everyone and he wanted to drag us all to hell. That's why Jesus is pleading to us not to believe satan's lies, rather, to read the Bible and get to know the Savior. Even the black hole in the center of the whirlpool galaxy shows an empty cross. "The simple believe anything, but the prudent give thought to their steps."Proverbs 14:14-16
sg51863 1 month ago
@sg51863 So, I give you an argument and evidence against your position, and your response it to completely ignore it and blankly assert that you're right. Jesus was just a man, who is dead, and never came back to life, your book is not from God, we have no reason to think a God exists, and you have nothing to base your argument on other than circular reasoning.
HonestDiscussioner 1 month ago
@odiewan58 The word of God is never in vain, and being raised Christian does not mean you ARE or WERE one, true love cannot be forced to follow God, therefore we have free will. Also, no one can be born or raised into the church. God bless you.
MyChainsAreGone7777 1 month ago
@odiewan58 The Qur'an says: "Fight and slay the pagans [Christians] wherever ye find them and seize them, confine them, and "LIE" in wait for them in every place of ambush" (Surah 9:5)
Genesis chapter 3:4“You will not surely die,” the serpent said to the woman. 5“For God knows that when you eat of it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil.”
odiewan 58 is quoting what other atheists have told him. Remember the best lies are very close to the truth.
Evolutiondestoryer 2 hours ago
gotta watch this she says she went to heaven..but clearly she needs a ct scan.search for " choo thomas"
timothymochley 1 month ago
@timothymochley Don't worry, she's not the only one who experienced tha. There are thousands of them telling the same things.They don't need any check up, actually, because what they are saying can also be found in the Bible.I suggest that you read other testimonies about heaven and hell for more info.
sg51863 1 month ago
@sg51863 i wish i could believe you..but how much research have you done into non-christian heaven hell experiences? of course you can say they are fake or invented to deceive, but from an outsider's view they are all equally valid/invalid. And something being biblical doesnt make it true. There's tons of stuff in the bible we know to be false, or at least the bible contradicts itself enough to be false on a number of occasions. Buddha also described trips to heaven and hell btw.
timothymochley 1 month ago
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@timothymochley Rejecting God's gift of salvation (through believing and accepting Jesus as Lord of your life) is the worst thing that a man could ever do. Eternity is at stake here. Hope you will give God a chance to reveal Himself to you.
sg51863 1 month ago
@timothymochley "tons of stuff in the bible known to be false"? Yes, maybe when you read the books between Malachi and Matthew. The Bible has 66 books and anything added will be questionable. Can you name some contradictions? Have you seen the buddhist monk who rose from the dead after going to hell. He said he saw Gautama in hell. Watch for yourself- MONK SEES BUDDHA IN HELL AND LIVES TO TELL (Guatama), he is now risking his life because of his testimony.
sg51863 1 month ago
@sg51863 Prove it.
42lynchmob 1 month ago
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@42lynchmob Rejecting God's gift of salvation (through believing and accepting Jesus as Lord of your life) is the worst thing that a man could ever do. Eternity is at stake here. Hope you will give God a chance to reveal Himself to you.
sg51863 1 month ago
Isn't the current set of popular Presidential candidates proof of "hell"? Or just material for an entire season of SNL?
choices1111 1 month ago
@choices1111 A little from column a . . a little from column b . . .
HonestDiscussioner 1 month ago
Geez, It's 2012. You think she would have taken her cell and shot some hot video. Now that would have been impressive. Oh, and an interview with Satan and Jesus. Kind of a pro-con sort of thing....And since Jesus told her to write a book, does he get 15% of sales ?
odiewan58 1 month ago
@odiewan58 Jesus doesn't need money. All He wants is for believers to tell about HIm as Savior and Lord, His word, heaven and hell. etc. That's why He's telling people to share their experience with others. This is a big warning to all.
sg51863 1 month ago
If you think that morality is of a temporally local context, then yes, the atheist was more moral in your view.
Morality is not relative.
Firequacker 1 month ago
@Firequacker I'm fairly certain under almost any moral theory, the guy that promises to do something in order to get someone to do something, then goes back on their promise, is less moral than the one that fulfills his end of the bargain.
HonestDiscussioner 1 month ago
Those simple terms agree. However, the real situation is much different than simply "the guy that promises to do something in order to get someone to do something then goes back on that promise".
Firequacker 1 month ago
@Firequacker Let me counter your statement with my own, with an equal amount of justification: Yes, it is.
Yony42 1 month ago
Doesn't the very claim that people went to Hell and came back (as opposed to just seeing Hell in a vision or revelation) contradict Christian teaching? I could be totally wrong here, but I think Christianity teaches that you either go to Hell or you don't, at judgement, either right after death or after a later resurrection. There is no saving grace once you're in Hell. Sure doesn't make God look very nice, but that's what they teach, no?
blackwolf1200 1 month ago
@blackwolf1200 I'm not sure . . . do you know a verse that would support that claim?
HonestDiscussioner 1 month ago
@HonestDiscussioner No. I've never been a Christian (apart from the childhood phase when we thought "Christian" meant "being one of the good guys").
blackwolf1200 1 month ago
And when 2012 has passed and once again, like every year of history before, some things happened and others didn't, they will reinterpret their predictions and make new ones, once again. Like every year of history before. I'm not sure if it's ignorance, insanity, or just impudence driving them to commit to the same fail over and over again.
blackwolf1200 1 month ago
@blackwolf1200 there will be FAMINES, DISEASE, AND EARTHQUAKES in various places. 8 All these are the beginning of sorrows.
9 “Then they will deliver you up to tribulation and kill you, and YOU WILL BE HATED BY ALL NATION'S FOR MY NAME'S SAKE. 10 And then many will be offended, will betray one another, and will hate one another. 11 Then MANY FALSE PROPHETS WILL RISE UP and deceive many. 12 And because lawlessness will abound, the love of many will grow cold.
They call, "Separation! Freedom!"
Firequacker 1 month ago
@blackwolf1200 Is not the atheist becoming more prominent in the world, and his scoffing manner toward Christ more acceptable? Reddit, 4chan, etc.
Isn't the law being opened up for all to be accepted for 'who they are'?
Have there not been many disturbing trials in the past 10 years?
Have we not been deceived by our government? Do you believe 9/11 was not a reaction-formation plot?
The summation of all governments? EU? UN? They call themselves saviors of the economic world.
Prince William.
Firequacker 1 month ago
@Firequacker You're amusing. Don't you think the people living during the Thirty Years War, the Black Death or the Second World War had enough to believe the same nonsense? Enough to make dozens of prophecies fit whatever event they picked? Do you honestly think that this time we live in is any more remarkable than theirs? How myopic could you be?
Disturbing trials, deceptive governments, false prophets, famine, earthquakes... yawn. Nothing new, same today as in the year 1012.
blackwolf1200 1 month ago
@Firequacker you forgot the Mayan calendar. That is far more convincing than anything you have previously posted.
1n354a 1 month ago
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@blackwolf1200 Rejecting God's gift of salvation (through believing and accepting Jesus as Lord of your life) is the worst thing that a man could ever do. Eternity is at stake here. Hope you will give God a chance to reveal Himself to you.
sg51863 1 month ago
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Pls. watch this:Three (3) prophecies converge into one: Last Pope, Last President of the US, Ariel Sharon, Messiah's name revealed. The Lord is coming RIGHT AWAY. Please don't get yourself distracted by the world, FOCUS on God more. Keep eternity in mind.
sg51863 2 months ago
Hurry.Jesus is coming for his people! ask the LORD for forgiveness.repent away from your sins. Believe in Jesus Christ, that he is the savior,the son of God,and that he died on the cross for our sins.Know that Jesus loves you. share Jesus's word to the world.jesus wants you saved, so you can spend eternity in Heaven with the LORD. Hurry. he will come soon, when the time comes.
twilovermaddie 2 months ago
@twilovermaddie Your comment has been echoing for the past two thousand years. Honestly it's more likely an asteroid will hit us than Jesus coming back by this point. You better hope that you're right, because if it turns out one of the other thousands of gods is the "actual" god, you're fucked too.
halonone 2 months ago
@halonone Doubt it, Jesus is pretty much the perfect human, and whoever models him in their life is good by any theist's standards.
Firequacker 2 months ago
@halonone well i dont doubt my beliefs i have faith. and WHEN Jesus comes back for me if i live to the point, then im going to heaven. im going to be nice and reccomend a Baptist or christian church. just try it. itll change your life trust me youll learn so much
twilovermaddie 1 month ago
@twilovermaddie I'm sorry you think you know something about me. I was a Christian for half my life. I have attended Baptist, Methodist, and non-denominational churches at various points in my life. For a little while I attended Catholic church with my cousins. I became an atheist after finding I could not defend my beliefs with logical reasoning. "Faith" is not a substitute for knowledge.
halonone 1 month ago
@halonone in genisis,(the bible) god takes one of adam's ribs while hes sleeping. he used the rib to make eve, the first woman ever. in present time, boys always have one less rib than girls. Faith IS knowledge. even if you dont believe in god, he believes in you.
twilovermaddie 1 month ago
@twilovermaddie Now I don't know if you're trolling me or what, but men and women both have 12 sets of ribs. Look it up. There are medical books, physiology books, x-rays... you are simply wrong about this. And this is a perfect demonstration of why we must rely on knowledge from observation and testing (science) and not a 2,000 year old book. Your comment makes you look as silly as Ray Comfort holding a banana.
halonone 1 month ago 2
@halonone well the devils got you right where he wants you then. god bless you.
twilovermaddie 1 month ago
@twilovermaddie What a sad person you are; rather than admit you were wrong, you try to again inflict your point of view on me and try to make me feel like a bad person. You have a lot to learn and I pity you and your imaginary friend.
halonone 1 month ago
@halonone well i guess i cant help you then. im sorry you dont believe the same way i and thousands of other people do. i was raised a christain so i dont know how you see life so im jujst going to say god bless you and move on
twilovermaddie 1 month ago
It's sad because though you may have heard a lot about hell (Angelica Zambrano, 7 Colum- bians, 23 mins in hell,Real people, real death, real hell, etc.) still you resist the idea of it.If you will miss what God has prepared for you in heaven then it will not be His fault anymore.He has given you a lot of chances.Afterlife is the real life, earth life is temporary. Your soul doesn't die, only two destinations, better choose the best not the worst before it's too late.What if MKB is RIGHT?She is.
sg51863 3 months ago
@sg51863 If MKB is right, then the Bible is wrong, since she contradicts it regularly. It's sad, because you've heard all these stories and are ignoring that they contradict each other and many times themselves or the Bible, and you'll waste the only life you have following the words of long dead superstitious men in the hopes of a reward you'll never receive. What if MKB is wrong? She is.
HonestDiscussioner 3 months ago 2
@HonestDiscussioner If your hand causes you to stumble, cut it off. It is better for you to enter life maimed than with two hands to go into hell, where the fire never goes out.
(Mark 9:42-44);But I tell you that anyone who is angry with a brother or sister will be subject to judgment. Again, anyone who says to a brother or sister, ‘Raca,’ is answerable to the court. And anyone who says, ‘You fool!’ will be in danger of the fire of hell.(Matthew 5:21-23)
sg51863 3 months ago
@HonestDiscussioner “And they will go out and look on the dead bodies of those who rebelled against me; the worms that eat them will not die, the fire that burns them will not be quenched, and they will be loathsome to all mankind.” (Isaiah 66:23-24) How did they contradict each other? They're telling the same thing:Hell is Real.Is it a waste of time to live a godly life,a life with love and concern for others? Khalil,Nasir Saddiki & Muhamed testified how Jesus met them,now they are Christians.
sg51863 3 months ago
@HonestDiscussioner Pls. watch this:Three (3) prophecies converge into one: Last Pope, Last President of the US, Ariel Sharon, Messiah's name revealed. The Lord is coming RIGHT AWAY. Please don't get yourself distracted by the world, FOCUS on God more. Keep eternity in mind.
sg51863 2 months ago
@sg51863 oh cool. you got a date? and by "RIGHT AWAY" you mean within my lifetime or yours. I hate to miss it by dying ahead and all.
TinyFire1 2 months ago
@TinyFire1 Pls watch:3 prophecies converge in 2012. Last President, Last Pope, Ariel Sharon Prophecy. Messiah Revealed. Signs of Jesus' coming are all around us and He will be coming back for His people.Angelica Zambrano who died for 23 hours was told by Jesus that He won't be coming back SOON but RIGHT AWAY. He told her to tell everyone. Yes it's a date with Jesus.Christians will be raptured in a twinkling of an eye.
sg51863 1 month ago
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@TinyFire1 Rejecting God's gift of salvation (through believing and accepting Jesus as Lord of your life) is the worst thing that a man could ever do. Eternity is at stake here. Hope you will give God a chance to reveal Himself to you.
sg51863 1 month ago
@HonestDiscussioner --actually if your "open" to Real Truth, meaning you can accept if given the proper information/evidence that you could be wrong and that there is a heaven and hell then I'd be glad to give you the info/scientific evidence, if your totally against knowing the truth no matter what evidence is put in front of you well I'll leave ya be---blessings
oceaneyess67 2 months ago
@oceaneyess67 Of course I could be wrong, and I hope given that speech you feel the same way about your position. Feel free to give me your evidence . . and if I am to refute it shall I assume you'd be willing to reconsider your belief system? Perhaps you base it on more than that, give me ALL your facts then, and we'll see how open you are to reason.
I look forward to reviewing your evidence.
HonestDiscussioner 2 months ago 4
@HonestDiscussioner There are already thousands of people testifying about the afterlife and YOU ARE STILL RESISTING IT? We have done our part. sir, God also did His part. In front of you is a testimony of the afterlife. Before you is HEAVEN & HELL; GOD & SATAN. "Choose for yourselves this day whom you will serve,But as for me and my household, we will serve the LORD.”Joshua 24:14,16
sg51863 1 month ago
@sg51863 Ah, so you believe the people who have had near death experiences are proof of the afterlife? Unfortunately for you, studies show that people who have these experiences have elevated CO2 levels in their brain, which is known to cause visions and hallucinations. It's a natural phenomenon. Not to mention, they don't always see YOUR god when they die.
HonestDiscussioner 1 month ago
@HonestDiscussioner You're correct, the afterlife occurs post-judgment day - any spiritual interaction with beings other than God cannot be good because they must be familial entities - souls which have not died in peace, to sleep until the day of judgment, when the Book of Life shall be read to God on his White Throne.
Firequacker 1 month ago
@Firequacker Weren't we supposed to have a debate?
HonestDiscussioner 1 month ago
@HonestDiscussioner They had the same hallucinations? same stories? same amount of CO2 in the brain? What about animals? Do they have the same visions when they have NDE?Ok if you don't believe the afterlife, where will you go after you die?
sg51863 1 month ago
@sg51863 No, they DIDN'T have the same hallucinations. That's the point. You think when Hindu's have an NDE they see Jesus? No, see their gods, they see what they expect to see.
I don't know what animals see or if they have hallucinations. They aren't very clear with their communication.
Where do I go when I die? Same place a computer goes when it gets melted into slag. It doesn't exist anymore, and nor will I when I die. Not a nice thought, but the truth doesn't have to be nice.
HonestDiscussioner 1 month ago
@HonestDiscussioner Sad, that shows you haven't doing research. You are just sticking to your own opinion, What do you think of thousands of people who testify of the afterlife, lower class of humans and no-brainers?Can somebody afford to lie after experiencing death and going back to life? Of course, they won't bother to tell a lie nor tell stories that are useless anyway. They went back to earth and are warning us.Only stubborn and proud people will ignore their death&life testimonies. Sad
sg51863 1 month ago
@sg51863 "Only stubborn and proud people will ignore their death&life testimonies."
Ah, so by definition you are stubborn and proud, You ignore the testimony of Vasudev Pandey who saw the Hindu god of Death when he died, and the testimony of Chhajju Bania who saw the same, or do you take them as evidence of the Hindu religion being true?
What research didn't I do exactly. You are the one who appears to not have done their research.
HonestDiscussioner 1 month ago
@HonestDiscussioner They saw the god of death? so they didn't see Jesus Christ. Jesus is the God of Life, He is the Way,the Truth and the Life. not the god of death. Jesus loves everyone and He is using people to reach out, He is revealing Himself to everyone.That's the reason why you always have God in your mind.Unfortunately,you resist His call and exert a lot of effort to prove that He doesn't exist at all.How long will you tire yourself doing that resistance to His invitation to be saved?
sg51863 1 month ago
@sg51863 No, they didn't see Jesus Christ. They saw the god they expected to see when they died. So since near death experiences changed based on the cultural and religious beliefs of the person, and medically they only occur in those with high level of CO2 in their blood which is known to cause visions, why should I be led to the conclusion this is Jesus reaching out? Wouldn't everyone who died only see Jesus, and wouldn't there be no medical explanation?
HonestDiscussioner 1 month ago
@HonestDiscussioner The devil is a liar and hell is for him and his angels. However, he is all-out in deceiving humans so they'll join him in hell and suffer together. Do yourself a favor by asking WHAT IF. What if hell is real, what if there's God, what if afterlife is true, what if I will die and not sure of my eternity, what if everything I chose to believe is a lie from the evil one, what if the real life is the afterlife, what if...
sg51863 1 month ago
@sg51863 "The devil is a liar and hell is for him and his angels. However, he is all-out in deceiving humans so they'll join him in hell and suffer together. "
Okay, so how do you know YOU'RE not the one being deceived? Do yourself a favor by asking WHAT IF. If Hinduism is true, if you're not following the right path, what if everything you've chosen to believe is a lie from the evil one?
HonestDiscussioner 1 month ago
@HonestDiscussioner I have a basis for what I believe. The Bible has always been around for many many years and it leads people to holy and loving life. Doesn't your conscience testify that holiness and love are both good virtues?What will I lose if I choose to believe the Bible, it has done me a lot of good.The Bible tells about God.
sg51863 1 month ago
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@HonestDiscussioner "For all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God & all are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus.God presented Christ as a sacrifice of atonement,through the shedding of his blood—to be received by FAITH (Rom3) "For it is by grace you have been saved, through FAITH—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God—not by works, so that no one can boast." (Eph 2:8-9)
sg51863 1 month ago
@sg51863 After we die we either get cremated or we rot. Then again, there is an off-chance that you could get stuck in a glacier and be frozen for several thousand years as is there a chance that you could get stuck in a low-oxygen bog and eventually get fossilized. If you were a betting man, I would go with rotting though.
1n354a 1 month ago
@1n354a ".. It is better for you to enter life maimed than with two hands to go into hell, where the fire never goes out. And if your foot causes you to stumble, cut it off. It is better for you to enter life crippled than to have two feet and be thrown into hell &if your eye causes you to stumble, pluck it out. It is better for you to enter the kingdom of God with one eye than to have two eyes & be thrown into hell,where “‘the worms that eat them do not die,and the fire is not quenched.’Mk 9:49
sg51863 1 month ago
@sg51863 so what you are saying is that just prior to death we should rip one or both of our eyes out in case we encounter (post death) fire worms that will will never be able to drink enough water? How do you suggest we guess that we are due to die such that we can prep whatever materials we need in order to rip our eye(s) out? And please clarify why the act of ripping our eyes out helps our lifeless corpse avoid eternally thirsty fire worms....and since we are dead, why we should care...
1n354a 1 month ago
@1n354a It was Jesus who said those words not me.That verse show the seriousness of sinning.Jesus died for us to save us from the power and penalty of sins.Having Jesus in our lives will help us hate and avoid sins.Sin is a curse and it's death in itself.The spiritually dead will not be able to enter heaven.
sg51863 1 month ago
@sg51863 You would have a hard time convincing me that Jesus ever existed, let alone said those things. Biblical accounts were written by unknown authors decades after Jesus supposedly lived; they didn't know him, they didn't know anybody who knew him. There is no contemporary account of this Jesus character. He is as real as Robin Hood is.
As such he didn't say those words, he didn't die for our sins, and having him in our lives will do nothing for him.
1n354a 1 month ago
@1n354a "But I tell you that anyone who is angry with a brother or sister will be subject to judgment. Again, anyone who says to a brother or sister, ‘Raca,’ is answerable to the court. And anyone who says, ‘You fool!’ will be in danger of the fire of hell.-Matt 9:22. After dying,body decays or burnt but the soul goes to a destination:heaven or hell depending on who you served when you're still on earth.
sg51863 1 month ago
@sg51863 What if you are an only child...or if your brother/sister is an adopted child, so they are not really your brother or sister? What if they are a half brother or sister? How about if they are a hermaphrodite such that they are your brother and sister at the same time? What if you didn't really say 'Raca' but they thought they heard it and accused you of saying it? Or what if you wrote it down instead of saying it?
I eagerly await your mind-altering response!! RAmen!
1n354a 1 month ago
@1n354a I'm doing this for you. I'm saved already and am sure to enjoy the kingdom of God in the future.Haha I'm just doing you a favor, telling you the truth because the truth sets people free."So if the Son sets you free, you will be free indeed."John 8:35-37."Jesus replied, “Very truly I tell you, no one can see the kingdom of God unless they are born again" Jn 3:3
sg51863 1 month ago
@sg51863 Just so you know, when you (or anybody else) says things like "I'm saved already" we hear "I'm incredibly gullible and lack any critical thinking skills". And when you say that then quote scripture you look twice the fool.
That being said, you are doing me a favor: providing me with endless amounts of entertainment on an otherwise boring day.
1n354a 1 month ago
@1n354a That verse showed the existence of hell and the key to hell is sin. Jesus came to pay for our sins.If we will just repent and accept His work done in Calvary and believe Him, then we will become children of God.He didn't make it complicated. He wants everyone to be with Him forever.It's not about bro/sis etc. it's about eternity with or without God.If you don't believe, what if hell is real?You will be in indescribable agony FOREVER bcoz you choose not to believe God and His word.
sg51863 1 month ago
@sg51863 If your god is real and it is the kind of being that would cause somebody indescribable agony forever simply because they didn't believe that the god existed (due to a complete lack of supporting evidence) then I think I'll go with the 'without-god' option for all eternity. Who would want to hang out with such a jack-ass for all time?
Love me or burn for all time is not a choice given by a loving, caring being....
1n354a 1 month ago
@1n354a It'll not be God who'll drag you to hell bcoz you didn't believe Him. It'll be satan the father of all lies whose doing all to make people join him there. HELL is for satan &demons not for humans."The one who does what is sinful is of the devil,because the devil has been sinning from the beginning.The reason the Son of God appeared was to destroy the devil’s work."1Jn 3."Be alert & of sober mind.Your enemy the devil prowls around like a roaring lion looking for someone to devour."
sg51863 1 month ago
@sg51863 LOL so your all loving all powerful god who cares for me deeply and wants me to be part of his club beyond all else will allow some demon to drag me off to eternal pain and suffering? Pardon my language, but your concept of a god is a serious dick.
1n354a 1 month ago
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@1n354a "For all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God & all are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus.God presented Christ as a sacrifice of atonement,through the shedding of his blood—to be received by FAITH (Rom3) "For it is by grace you have been saved, through FAITH—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God—not by works, so that no one can boast." (Eph 2:8-9)
sg51863 1 month ago
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@HonestDiscussioner Rejecting God's gift of salvation (through believing and accepting Jesus as Lord of your life) is the worst thing that a man could ever do. Eternity is at stake here. Hope you will give God a chance to reveal Himself to you.
sg51863 1 month ago
@sg51863 If you think eternal torture is worthy of a person who denies god's existence, despite a person's moral standing, you can have your god and his afterlife, because you are a cruel person and so is your maker.
halonone 2 months ago
@halonone Hell is merely described as an eternity away from God, where our desires determine our suffering, for none of them are fulfilled. If you have perfect moral standing, but no belief in God or Jesus, then you will have a pretty neutral afterlife.
Firequacker 2 months ago
@halonone "For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God—not by works, so that no one can boast." (Eph 2:8-9)
"For all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God & all are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus.God presented Christ as a sacrifice of atonement,through the shedding of his blood—to be received by faith (Rom3)
sg51863 1 month ago
Free will is God's rule. Even the demons must bow to His Will. So hell is real. I don't have to go there & neither do u! Hell not made for us but the demons!
1in3searchlight 4 months ago
@1in3searchlight Why would a demon try to kill you. If he succeeds, you go to heaven. If he fails, your faith is strengthened.
HonestDiscussioner 4 months ago
@HonestDiscussioner Because I was such a great loss. I was a wiccan witch, reader of tarot cards. I got born-again. Satan doesn't like to lose. By the way this was 30 years ago. A smaller demon had already attached itself to my back. Ur never supposed to give the devil or his fallen ones ur back. All spiritual armor is on the front of you. Demon could not have suceeded. The Precious Blood of Jesus covers a born again believer. U belong to Jesus. God's property not satan's.
1in3searchlight 4 months ago
@1in3searchlight Yeah I'm sorry I just don't buy it. None of that makes any sense. I was born again many years ago, and through many years and searching I found a lack of God rather than any sense of him. That spiritual armor would only be in the front and all the devil has to do is move around the back makes little sense.
I believe it is all in your head.
HonestDiscussioner 4 months ago
@HonestDiscussioner didn't say u had to believe me..just my story. Maybe u just didn't bug God enough. Persistence is a key also a personal relationship works out pretty good 2. When i 1st got saved I used to say the sinner's prayer all day long then one day after 3 or 4 months the Holy Spirit said "ur saved! can we go on there's more! God talks to me a lot. Be still and know that I am God. Also was a very good Catholic girl till the wiccan thing.
1in3searchlight 4 months ago
@1in3searchlight I tried for years, prayed, read the bible. All my efforts only drove me away. Wasted years. The video I will be posting today will go over why. Research has vindicated me. For example, this "satan" you talk about seems to be a perversion of scripture, the only real instance in the Bible he appears would be he tempted Jesus. All or at least all other mentions for which the legends are based either strictly allegorical or misinterpreted.
HonestDiscussioner 4 months ago
@HonestDiscussioner Haven't u forgotten Isiah? Satan's name used to be Lucifer. I ask u to go back & read the Book of Job then Revelations..do tell me it ain't so! It's the end of the world my friend. Take a stand & be with God! As Mike Townsend so well sang don't choose and u choose anyway. Have u read 23 " in hell? Yes well Satan is quite the perversion himself. Just whose idea do u think it was to mate with the daughters of the earth? He's like the commander-in-chief of the fallen ones!
1in3searchlight 4 months ago
@1in3searchlight Are you speaking of Isaiah 14? The Morning Star is the king of babylon, not some supernatural entity. See Isaiah 14:3-4.
HonestDiscussioner 4 months ago
@HonestDiscussioner read further 12-15 for did he not think to overthrow God & be as the most high? Was this not the cause of a war in heaven referenced in Rev.12:7
1in3searchlight 4 months ago
@1in3searchlight No it isn't. Oh don't get me wrong, Revelations is possibly referencing that quote, though I can't be certain. What is certain is that Isaiah is referencing the King of Babylon in 14:3-4. It specifically says "tell the King of Babylon this". The overthrow God is likely a reference to the Tower of Babel, and the ziggurats the Babylonians built. The Babel story goes that a tower was built to reach heaven, and this story is i n Isaiah 14 is referencing that.
HonestDiscussioner 4 months ago
@HonestDiscussioner well 2 bad 4 u that u interpret it that way..besides it ain't Lucifer who decides my fate rather it is God. All of this discussion is so pointless since u have missed the main item. God sent His ONLY SON to die 4 our sins so that we would be forgiven & acceptable in His Sight. U have missed God's free gift, salvation. Do u not understand the times we live in? Know u not that God's wrath is being unleashed against the whole world? Consider it a moment. What if u r wrong?
1in3searchlight 4 months ago
@1in3searchlight This isn't an "interpretation". It says "you will take up this taunt against the king of Babylon:"
Then it goes into it. What room is there for an interpretation that it is a supernatural being he's talking about?
That it would otherwise go against your preconceived notions.
The times we live in are bad, but these aren't the worst times by far. Economy sucks, but our standard of living is far higher, and natural disasters aren't occurring much more frequently than in past
HonestDiscussioner 4 months ago
@HonestDiscussioner.Like Judge Judy says..don't pee on my leg & tell me it's raining. I'm almost 60 years old fella & never have we faced so many problems on so many fronts at once! Everything has increased & not in a good way! I come from when u prayed in school & the 10 commandments were on the wall. Don't give me guff..This little Catholic girl went to a Jewish kindergarten where my very Jewish teacher was moved to learn & pray the Our Father with me !
1in3searchlight 4 months ago
@1in3searchlight You're sixty years old? Try studying the past six HUNDRED years and then tell me this is the worst time.
"I come from when u prayed in school & the 10 commandments were on the wall."
Yes, and we have advanced to the point where religion is not pushed on kids, where they are not indoctrinated. They are still welcome to believe things, and those things are still in religious schools, just not state schools. This is a good thing, not a bad thing.
HonestDiscussioner 4 months ago
@HonestDiscussioner R u saying that we r no more civilized or advanced than 600 yrs. ago? Next u'll tell me the Holocaust never happened. I just told u..u should read what I said. If the 10 commandments were our moral code then what exactedly do u offer in their place? Why r u so scared by the words of God? Isn't it right & just to expect that 1 would honor their parents, not kill, not steal, not commit adultery, not lie, not covert, not build idols that can't walk or talk .
1in3searchlight 4 months ago
@1in3searchlight "R u saying that we r no more civilized or advanced than 600 yrs. age"
Huh? No, I said the opposite. We're a lot better off now than we were 600 years ago.
Most if not all of the 10 commandments appear in the much older Egyptian Book of the Dead. You're following a copy. I am not scared of the Bible, it's merely an old book written by fallible men. What I offer in its place is research into what makes a society more healthy, based on facts, not dogma.
HonestDiscussioner 4 months ago
@HonestDiscussioner There r no more pharoahs they worshipped false gods despite having all the plagues thrown at them. I SHOULD SAY HAVE U NO FEAR OF HIM WHO CAN KILL UR BODY, SPIRIT & SOUL?
1in3searchlight 4 months ago
@1in3searchlight "There r no more pharoahs they worshipped false gods despite having all the plagues thrown at them."
That story was likely embellished, at least. There is no historical or archaeological evidence to suggest that the Egyptians ever held Hebrew slaves, nor that there was ever any mass extinctions in that area. Something as catastrophic as was depicted in Exodus would have certainly left a mark. There's nothing in either language to suggest they spent time around one another.
HonestDiscussioner 4 months ago
@HonestDiscussioner Really? Have u looked in the hospitals in the Middle East or Africa? Can u say Darfur?
1in3searchlight 4 months ago
@1in3searchlight Yes, all very tragic things. You're picking the worst situations and appealing to emotion. Have you heard of the Black Plauge? 33% of the entire population being wiped out?
Look, you keep coming up with reasons, both Biblical and historical, that I keep refuting. Your response is to move on to even more things rather than address what I've said. I know it sucks to hear, but you should realize by now that the things you've been taught are simply not true.
HonestDiscussioner 4 months ago
@HonestDiscussioner Indeed but I refer to tragedies intentionally caused by man not bad hygiene/poor living conditions. About Egypt & Moses u should reference HI's programs. Things I have been taught? No, No silly foolish man things I believe & know to be true. I told u I have a relationship with God. Just call me Blind faith cuz I won't back down! God is Just, Good, Righteous and Truth. Appealing to emotion? Can u honestly look @ a child's jaw that has been blown apart & not be moved?
1in3searchlight 4 months ago
@1in3searchlight "Indeed but I refer to tragedies intentionally caused by man not bad hygiene/poor living conditions. "
Right, even considering the larger scale mass-murderings, we're still a more peaceful society than we were 200 years ago. Back in the good old Bible days you were much more likely to be murdered or die as a solider than you are today.
HonestDiscussioner 4 months ago
@HonestDiscussioner that depends upon who & where u r.
1in3searchlight 4 months ago
@1in3searchlight I'm talking about the entire world as a whole. Certainly rates go up in the city and down in the suburbs, but if we're approaching this honestly, we'll take the entire world as a whole.
HonestDiscussioner 4 months ago
@1in3searchlight dutchsinse on you tube you want to view global earthquake overview the link u want is go under see more he has it there. European site offers more info on earthquakes El Huerro, Canary Islands, Eastern Turkey. Also scott.net offers news of climate change, fire in the sky..for the rest of the news u don't always get. Gotta go to work.
1in3searchlight 4 months ago
@HonestDiscussioner So when might this "research" be done? What do recommend 4 now? Of course men r fallable, we all r especially without God to guide us.
1in3searchlight 4 months ago
@1in3searchlight "So when might this "research" be done?
We've been doing it. It's called psychology and sociology, along with other sciences like nutritional biology and neurology. Did you know that our decisions are often made unconsciously up to 8 seconds before we are consciously aware of our decision?
God, if he existed, would be infallible, but he doesn't exist. Or if he does, he had very little input in the Bible which is riddled with errors. Shall I list some of them for you?
HonestDiscussioner 4 months ago
@HonestDiscussioner The depth of the soul of man no one can measure. I'm a RN I know all about science but many times science can get confused, be stymied, yes & be surprised. Not all things go according to man's plan except maybe chemtrails & weather modification. Would u call that research for the betterment of mankind?
1in3searchlight 4 months ago
@1in3searchlight No, the things I listed are. Of course we get it wrong, but science, unlike religion, corrects itself when it is wrong. Science is the reason we have such a long lifespan, evolutionary theory key to helping us develop new anti-biotics, heart transplants, etc. If you're an RN you should know the value of science, most of your training was developed through it.
HonestDiscussioner 4 months ago
@HonestDiscussioner Yes we've progressed to C. diff, MRSA, flesh-eating bacteria, ebola so many goodies to choose from. We also can thank science for the hard choices that sometimes we must make or do not want to make. Surely u have heard about octo-mom. Some moms are presented with a choice to be made who will live who will die.yet I have comforted those who cry to have a live delivery. I still live with memories of a mom who lied about her weeks of pregnancy & the MD who helped her lie.
1in3searchlight 4 months ago
@1in3searchlight "Yes we've progressed to C. diff, MRSA, flesh-eating bacteria, ebola so many goodies to choose from."
As you say, those are diseases, not the intentional will of man. Yes, some of these have developed resistances to the drugs we've developed for them, but by far more lives have been saved.
HonestDiscussioner 4 months ago
@1in3searchlight If I am correct, these practices should not be perfect, so you're examples do not refute my position. However if you are correct, Christian areas should be at least slightly better off and more moral than non-religious areas. Unfortunately, the opposite is true. Religion is strongly associated with teen pregnancies, violent crime, STD's, poverty, etc. This is only counting the 1st world, it doesn't incorporate Muslim dominated theocracies like Saudi Arabia or Iran.
HonestDiscussioner 4 months ago
@HonestDiscussioner No baby should be born with everything completed except eyelashes & eyebrows only to die. New antibiotics, drugs Don't u know that the FDA lets pharmacuticals do their own research for a fee? How compromised is that? U talk religion I talk a personal relationship with God & His Son.
1in3searchlight 4 months ago
@1in3searchlight Like I said, it isn't a perfect system, and I wish it was much improved. There is too much money in politics, on this we agree on. That does not discount the scientific method, nor the incredible benefits it has bestowed upon mankind.
"I talk a personal relationship with God & His Son."
Which incorporates religion, unless your relationship does not supposed to inform your moral basis, at which point all of your arguments would become invalid.
HonestDiscussioner 4 months ago
@HonestDiscussioner By the way how come kids can't bring a Bible to school?
1in3searchlight 4 months ago
@1in3searchlight "By the way how come kids can't bring a Bible to school?"
They can. The supreme court even ruled (and I agree with the ruling) that the Bible can be taught in school as literature.
HonestDiscussioner 4 months ago
@HonestDiscussioner In high school anybody offended by our prayer was encouraged to leave until we were done! Some healthcare workers have been forbidden to wear their crosses or get let go! Graduations lack prayer because ignorant people stop them! MY PEOPLE DIE DAILY FOR A LACK OF KNOWLEGE! Teenage pregnancies, STD's, family & drug problems have increased beyond believability. Why? No respect for life beginning or end. i am adopted. My mom let me live! & don't start with legalities.
1in3searchlight 4 months ago
@1in3searchlight " In high school anybody offended by our prayer was encouraged to leave until we were done! "
That's not enough. That means you either have to be excluded from the group if you aren't a believer. Students are welcome to pray, but the teacher and school have no right to dictate a prayer time.
Oh, and teen pregnancies and STDS? That's because of Christians. The more religious an area is, the more likely those things are to occur. That's a fact.
HonestDiscussioner 4 months ago
@HonestDiscussioner Special ed students r excluded from the group & r made to stand out like a sore thumb. Oh BTW we loved our Jewish kids..no tests before or during Jewish holidays! There was respect in my city. Wut? Wut/ that's not enuff? Really ur generation whines 2 much..u expect everything always will be fair? I'd like a source for those stats about pregnancies & STD's please. Lived in Denver..didn't stop abortion clinics but it's the Bible belt.
1in3searchlight 4 months ago
@1in3searchlight "Special ed students r excluded from the group & r made to stand out like a sore thumb"
As a former participant in a masters of education program, I can tell you that the discussion over inclusion is only just beginning. I'm against it, but that isn't to say there aren't good arguments on both sides. The issue of ostracizing students is a problem, but I feel the issue of pacing overrides it. cont.
HonestDiscussioner 4 months ago
@HonestDiscussioner having had 2 special ed students I can tell u the social effects of "pacing' amount to social ostracizion that many students carry into their 20's & 30's. U forget that u are dealing with other mainstreamed children. Often smaller school systems do nothing more than stick the student in a corner in the same classroom. It isn't said but the social implications are immense. Perhaps in the rest of the country this isn't so but not in Me. A master's is commendable.
1in3searchlight 4 months ago
@1in3searchlight I said I was only a participant. I was almost finished, doing my pre-student teaching, when I ate the Eucharist a few seconds later than I should have so they kicked me out.
HonestDiscussioner 4 months ago
@HonestDiscussionerLOL My father's brother got kicked out of the priesthood twice for smoking then demoted to a brother then he left & got married. Nana was heartbroken a good Cathlic family should have a sister, brother or a priest. I was told I talked to much What a lovely sunrise here Orange stripe with yellow under and sky blue above seen through large maple trees.
1in3searchlight 4 months ago
@1in3searchlight " the social effects of "pacing' amount to social ostracizion that many students carry into their 20's & 30's."
Are you sure that is due solely to keeping them in separate classes? Some of these students are physically or mentally incapable of controlling their outbursts, do you believe mainstreaming them would remove that ostracism?
HonestDiscussioner 4 months ago
@HonestDiscussioner i think er all know when we're being shined on,when we're being mistreated. When u r a child & sense that adults r treating u unfairly with bias what I ask can be ur response but to defend urself. I am not talking about not being able to control oneself. Not all special ed students these days r there for these reasons u have stated but learning disabilities which means u learn differently than others. In many ways I think it incumbent upon the teacher to be in control.
1in3searchlight 4 months ago
@1in3searchlight "Not all special ed students these days r there for these reasons u have stated but learning disabilities which means u learn differently than others."
Well I don't think everyone with a learning disability should be separated. Especially since learning disability is so ill-defined. I think with proper tutoring they can keep up with the rest of the students.
HonestDiscussioner 4 months ago
@HonestDiscussioner mainstreaming can be difficult if reading is ur problem. My daughter was very much tutored in reading beginning at the age of 7. However the dyslexia still was not found till she was a high school senior & I also know of another student not 2 far away with same problem . 3 different school districts 20-30 miles apart but same problems?
1in3searchlight 4 months ago
@HonestDiscussioner of themselves for they r the adults mature & educated. Just as not all of my fellow professionals can successfully deal well with problem patients many can. We see a lot of behaviors.
1in3searchlight 4 months ago
@HonestDiscussioner however u haven't raised these children & I have found teacher's who despite education often do not understand or believe the learning disabilities they deal with. Often students are 2 terrified, unaware, or quite simply have found that their word will not be believed when they are mistreated. Unless the parent actively advocates for their child & I mean is present in the classroom. Children r cruel to each other in or out of school.
1in3searchlight 4 months ago
@HonestDiscussioner Is that why my daughter was diagnosed as having ADD but in fact is bi-polar. She was also found to have dyslexia in her senior year discovered by the school she transferred to? It wasn;t that lots of testing,pscy evals hadn't been done. the social effects of ostrasing students can last into the 20's,30's. it is a type of child abuse. Would u like to be treated this way? Often educators forget this issue is emotional & can be a tearing down of the soul on a daily basis.
1in3searchlight 4 months ago
@1in3searchlight " Is that why my daughter was diagnosed as having ADD but in fact is bi-polar. "
ADD is overdiagnosed, this is true. I'm sure we can all point to many teachers that make mistake, but I would be willing to bet the majority of them are well meaning. Given that the greatest social predictor for societal health is education, teaching should be a premier occupation, with salaries double what they are now, and training to match. It should be DIFFICULT get your teaching certification.
HonestDiscussioner 4 months ago
@HonestDiscussioner not only that but ADD pays the bills. There is no money from the feds for BP. & yes teachers r paid poorly
1in3searchlight 4 months ago
@1in3searchlight I'm glad we were able to find some common ground. :-)
HonestDiscussioner 4 months ago
@HonestDiscussioner We r human & share the same condition. Have u read the entire Bible & which translation?
1in3searchlight