Andreas is a fantastic rider and horsemen his timing with his rewards is impeccable and the lack of tension in his own back shows the little tension the horse has in his back. All horses are different and I trust that the techniques Andreas is using are for reasons suited to this particular horse.
@Misspiggywinkles The horse kicks at him two different times, the horse has extreme tail swooshing, and I noticed the horse makes a nasty face at him once. Dressage horses are to be obiedient, with an experienced rider and advanced bit, the rider can force the horse to listen to him. Plus I would hate my chin tucked to my chest too.
You can see the tension cause by the rollkur int he violent swishing of his tail and his want to kick out. Seeing as he is young and new to this it is understandable that he will be uncomfortable and unsure the kicking is more permissible but you can already see the damage to this horse starting by the rollkur and the tension through his back. He will be ruined in a couple years. It's unfortunate because he's beautiful. This kind of riding should NEVER been accepted at any level.
@BattleAxGirl22 I think you're reading into it a little too much. He's swishing and fumbling with the piaffe because it's DIFFICULT. He's definitely not in rollkur or LDR during the short exercises. The horse is learning and it's hard to do. Of course he's going to be more sucked back and bracing through the jaw (which is why I suspect Andreas does the side to side flexing at the walk, which I still don't like).I'd much rather see people going after riders who WORK their horses in full rollkur.
@Gr8tBlueHeron Any hyper flexion like that through the pole is damaging to the horse. I suggest reading or looking into what Dr. Heuschmann has to say about positive back tension, absolute elevation and research done on the nuchal ligament. I know piaffe is hard and I am not saying that you shouldn't see any resistance or struggling in a young horse I just feel he is using incorrect and damaging methods. That might not be too bad now but in the future could cause this horse serious pain.
Is it assumed that everything on Epona.tv is supposed to be 'wrong?' I fail to see any abuse or poor training here... The horse is a little overbent at times and not 100% perfect, but this would be why we call it training, eh? You're going to criticize him for having a slight chair seat? For real? There must be some perfect riders out there who just don't feel like competing if they think that Andreas is a poor rider.
@Gr8tBlueHeron The criticism here is not on his seat or overbending the criticism is the rollkur or hyperflexion of the horse's head and neck. On all horses, but particularly on young ones who are not finished developing, this is SEVERELY damaging to their neck, backs and legs because they have to wrench and tense their muscles to move and maintain that position. This position also pinches their airway making it impossible to breath properly while exerting themselves. This method RUINS horses.
@BattleAxGirl22 I understand that but I'm not seeing that in this video. The horse is overbent at the walk, yes. I'm not a fan of side to side flexing of the neck like that, nor of encouraging a horse to EVER be that behind the bit. But there's a big difference between walking like that for a few minutes and working them like that. Andreas is insisting the horse is up and correct during the short bouts of piaffe and passage. There are far worse offenders to focus our time on, says I.
Well trained monkey rider and the monkey horse. Sorry state for the current equestrian culture, indeed. What would this beauty king in seat equitation would do without his hands and the lounge line and a long whip? "You can win a rat race, but you'll still be a rat at the end".
ich denke gerade olympiareiter und reiter der topklasse sollten in der lage sein ein pferd richtig zu reiten. sie sind vorbilder für viele reiter und auch wenn man vielleicht in den niedrigeren klassen startet kann man erkennen das dieses Pferd nicht in korrekter anlehnung geht.
einen falschen Knick und eine Nase die fast in die Brust beißt erkennt selbst ein anfänger
ich denke ein anfänger heißt anfänger da er das noch lernt. du konntest ja wahrscheinlich auch nicht alles auf einmal. doch ein profi reitet schon lange und der name profi sagt ja auch wiegut oder mit welcher stellung in der gessellschaft. anfänger und junge reiter nehmen sich profis als vorbilder und bekommen leider auf abreiteplätzen oder privatställen ein nicht so schönes bild. klar außnahme bestätigt die regel aber trotzdem nimmt sich ein anfänger einen profi als vorbild
Should anyone's training method be excused just because of the level of their riding? If an Olympian abuses a horse, is that any different for the horse than if some nobody does it? Riding severely BTV has been shown to be damaging to horses. Why does this guy get a pass just because he has a medal?
Just to clear up misunderstanding, i am not diagnosing this horse with stringhalt. I was using the term stringhalt-like, which can be many things, caused by many things, including cervical vertebral lesions. I am simply observing that when the horses neck is placed in a certain position, the hindlimbs show irregular rhythm repeatedly at the time the neck is shortened. This is an observation made by many concerning the effect of this training method.
Sikke en masse kloge mennesker der er omkring i verden. Hvis vi alle var så dygtige som alle de toprytter der er omkring os World wide, ville der nok ikke være så få af dem!! Misundelse er en grim ting ;0) Andreas er og jeg håber han vil blive ved med at være, en verdens rytter. Vi er meget stolte af vores super dygtige toprytter i Danmark :0)
I don't give a damn if you like people commenting on people who do this or not - if I see someone abusing a horse, I'll say so - and I don't care if they have a truckload of Olympic gold medals. And so what that I've never ridden a top dressage horse? That horse's body language is shouting out pain and resentment - though, clearly, despite calling other posters "fucking stupid", you are too ignorant to see it.
Part of the problem of evaluating this training method is the attack upon riders and trainers using it. I am in complete support of objective research with no attachment to the result. Attacks on the riders rather than true exam of the facts is causing delay in answers to our questions. The focus of my comment was the hind leg movement pattern, no more, no less.
signs of stringhalt basically involve an exaggerated lifting of each hind leg as the horse moves forwards (Medical Definition not mine) are you trying to say this horse is doing that? I don't agree with that.
I think there could be a difference in terms we are using here. Stringhalt and dislocation of the stifle are, in veterinary terminology, two seperate things. Dislocation of the stifle= upward patellar fixation can be partial. Stringhalt is an abnormal movement of the hind limb that is not caused by patellar problems. I have never intended to impugn riders or trainers diligent work. This is a veterinary definition.Stringhalt-like hlimb movements are one of the signs of cerv. vert. lesions.
i think you have made a very good point. the riders should not be attacked if everyone really wants to improve horse training methods. Only focus on the results and comparing to other training methods will help clarify the true effect of HF. Whatever opinion ppl have about HF they should try to support research by objective science. Donate to the academic institution of your choice, there are many different research projects starting at the moment.
If someone famous is doing it, then it must be OK. Dr Jim Heird addressed the phenomenon of 'habituation' towards cruelty in a speech he gave to AQHA judges in Dec. Google titled 'Do Right By the Horse.' He said, 'as we become more deeply entrenched in the showing/winning
aspect of our industry, we often lose contact with why we entered the industry in the beginning and shift our emphasis
to winning rather than on the well-being of the horse.'
I hate it sooo much when ppl comment on the trainning methods of Olypmic riders. i am sure that none of the ppl who comment on this have even riden a top dressage horse. ppl these days are sooo fucking stupid!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
@SHOJMPR42 i was regarding the ppl who comment on this vid. if there a grand prix ridder than that makes the difference. i just dont like when ppl comment on these top level ridders
@richmondkrn ..just watched one doing HARD pulls back with the reins during piaffe and passage, it looks horrible when you concider the strong bits inside that horses´mouth + sudden STRONG pull back with them. Im sorry but I just cant admire a rider doing such to a horse, since I´ve seen piaffe performed with soft calm hands. So very sorry.
This comment has received too many negative votesshow
What the fuck with this guys. Why is he pulling the horse side to side on the reins like a idiot. The horse wants to get comfortable and this idiot wont let him. Fucking people!!
This is why the competitions are so fucked up!!
First some of the judges have never ridden a horse, the you get this idiots and then everybody trys to imitate what they do!!
In 4 minutes he never once releases his hold on the rein. His piaffe heavy on the front and legs are kicking out to the side, not moving up underneath. Since when does a horse have to be sawed from side to side to produce piaffe? Is this aggressive riding under the new rules?
Stringhalt is a dislocation of the stifel (knee) this is clearly not that. Very fancy terms you are throwing around, Too bad it has nothing to do with this rider. The working deep is to get the back up and the hind end under.
chair seat, rolled up horse, hectical flexing to both sides and a very uncompfortable horse.
it's bad enough that riders show this bad riding at warm up areas, but to demonstrate it in front of children and teens, who might not yet be able to question what they see, that's just unforgiving. zero points!
Andreas is a fantastic rider and horsemen his timing with his rewards is impeccable and the lack of tension in his own back shows the little tension the horse has in his back. All horses are different and I trust that the techniques Andreas is using are for reasons suited to this particular horse.
WJMperformancehorses 2 months ago
Why is there no sound?
meylo2809 7 months ago
The horse doesn't like him.
jumper649 8 months ago 2
@jumper649 How can you tell :s
Misspiggywinkles 1 month ago
@Misspiggywinkles The horse kicks at him two different times, the horse has extreme tail swooshing, and I noticed the horse makes a nasty face at him once. Dressage horses are to be obiedient, with an experienced rider and advanced bit, the rider can force the horse to listen to him. Plus I would hate my chin tucked to my chest too.
jumper649 1 month ago
You can see the tension cause by the rollkur int he violent swishing of his tail and his want to kick out. Seeing as he is young and new to this it is understandable that he will be uncomfortable and unsure the kicking is more permissible but you can already see the damage to this horse starting by the rollkur and the tension through his back. He will be ruined in a couple years. It's unfortunate because he's beautiful. This kind of riding should NEVER been accepted at any level.
BattleAxGirl22 9 months ago
@BattleAxGirl22 I think you're reading into it a little too much. He's swishing and fumbling with the piaffe because it's DIFFICULT. He's definitely not in rollkur or LDR during the short exercises. The horse is learning and it's hard to do. Of course he's going to be more sucked back and bracing through the jaw (which is why I suspect Andreas does the side to side flexing at the walk, which I still don't like).I'd much rather see people going after riders who WORK their horses in full rollkur.
Gr8tBlueHeron 9 months ago 5
@Gr8tBlueHeron Any hyper flexion like that through the pole is damaging to the horse. I suggest reading or looking into what Dr. Heuschmann has to say about positive back tension, absolute elevation and research done on the nuchal ligament. I know piaffe is hard and I am not saying that you shouldn't see any resistance or struggling in a young horse I just feel he is using incorrect and damaging methods. That might not be too bad now but in the future could cause this horse serious pain.
BattleAxGirl22 9 months ago 3
Is it assumed that everything on Epona.tv is supposed to be 'wrong?' I fail to see any abuse or poor training here... The horse is a little overbent at times and not 100% perfect, but this would be why we call it training, eh? You're going to criticize him for having a slight chair seat? For real? There must be some perfect riders out there who just don't feel like competing if they think that Andreas is a poor rider.
Gr8tBlueHeron 9 months ago 4
@Gr8tBlueHeron The criticism here is not on his seat or overbending the criticism is the rollkur or hyperflexion of the horse's head and neck. On all horses, but particularly on young ones who are not finished developing, this is SEVERELY damaging to their neck, backs and legs because they have to wrench and tense their muscles to move and maintain that position. This position also pinches their airway making it impossible to breath properly while exerting themselves. This method RUINS horses.
BattleAxGirl22 9 months ago
@BattleAxGirl22 I understand that but I'm not seeing that in this video. The horse is overbent at the walk, yes. I'm not a fan of side to side flexing of the neck like that, nor of encouraging a horse to EVER be that behind the bit. But there's a big difference between walking like that for a few minutes and working them like that. Andreas is insisting the horse is up and correct during the short bouts of piaffe and passage. There are far worse offenders to focus our time on, says I.
Gr8tBlueHeron 9 months ago 3
My opinion (which i'm allowed to speak) : The horse look uncomfortable... Very uncomfortable
Marixxen2 11 months ago
oh in der senkrechten bleibt dieses pferd auch nicht nun sieht man es wider rohlkur ´´schrecklich ´´ ...
chemnitz091 11 months ago
Well trained monkey rider and the monkey horse. Sorry state for the current equestrian culture, indeed. What would this beauty king in seat equitation would do without his hands and the lounge line and a long whip? "You can win a rat race, but you'll still be a rat at the end".
ezire 1 year ago
ich denke gerade olympiareiter und reiter der topklasse sollten in der lage sein ein pferd richtig zu reiten. sie sind vorbilder für viele reiter und auch wenn man vielleicht in den niedrigeren klassen startet kann man erkennen das dieses Pferd nicht in korrekter anlehnung geht.
einen falschen Knick und eine Nase die fast in die Brust beißt erkennt selbst ein anfänger
MultiSanella 1 year ago
@MultiSanella
erkennt ein Anfänger auch, ob ein Pferd über den Rücken läuft, auch wenn das Pferd die Nasenlinie vor der Senkrechten hat?
Und erkennt JEDER auch ob ein Pferd hinten unter tritt?
Es ist leicht zu sehen wo die Nasenlinie ist! Aber ob es auch korrekt ist, zeigt erst eine Prüfung!
Jeder weiß wie die Nasenlinie auszusehen hat! Aber weiß jeder, wie es dazu kommt?
Und jeder weiß wie eine Piourette auszusehen hat?!
UND WO SIEHT MAN DIE????
Weltmeyer71 1 year ago
@Weltmeyer71
ich denke ein anfänger heißt anfänger da er das noch lernt. du konntest ja wahrscheinlich auch nicht alles auf einmal. doch ein profi reitet schon lange und der name profi sagt ja auch wiegut oder mit welcher stellung in der gessellschaft. anfänger und junge reiter nehmen sich profis als vorbilder und bekommen leider auf abreiteplätzen oder privatställen ein nicht so schönes bild. klar außnahme bestätigt die regel aber trotzdem nimmt sich ein anfänger einen profi als vorbild
Kelazorful 1 year ago
Should anyone's training method be excused just because of the level of their riding? If an Olympian abuses a horse, is that any different for the horse than if some nobody does it? Riding severely BTV has been shown to be damaging to horses. Why does this guy get a pass just because he has a medal?
rudyvaldez52 1 year ago 2
warum immer dies ewiges gezieh und gezerre meine güte
maikesponge 1 year ago
Just to clear up misunderstanding, i am not diagnosing this horse with stringhalt. I was using the term stringhalt-like, which can be many things, caused by many things, including cervical vertebral lesions. I am simply observing that when the horses neck is placed in a certain position, the hindlimbs show irregular rhythm repeatedly at the time the neck is shortened. This is an observation made by many concerning the effect of this training method.
SHOJMPR42 1 year ago
Sikke en masse kloge mennesker der er omkring i verden. Hvis vi alle var så dygtige som alle de toprytter der er omkring os World wide, ville der nok ikke være så få af dem!! Misundelse er en grim ting ;0) Andreas er og jeg håber han vil blive ved med at være, en verdens rytter. Vi er meget stolte af vores super dygtige toprytter i Danmark :0)
HelleDueholm 1 year ago
richmondkrn
I don't give a damn if you like people commenting on people who do this or not - if I see someone abusing a horse, I'll say so - and I don't care if they have a truckload of Olympic gold medals. And so what that I've never ridden a top dressage horse? That horse's body language is shouting out pain and resentment - though, clearly, despite calling other posters "fucking stupid", you are too ignorant to see it.
Tabourba 2 years ago
Part of the problem of evaluating this training method is the attack upon riders and trainers using it. I am in complete support of objective research with no attachment to the result. Attacks on the riders rather than true exam of the facts is causing delay in answers to our questions. The focus of my comment was the hind leg movement pattern, no more, no less.
SHOJMPR42 2 years ago
signs of stringhalt basically involve an exaggerated lifting of each hind leg as the horse moves forwards (Medical Definition not mine) are you trying to say this horse is doing that? I don't agree with that.
wejump2 2 years ago
I think there could be a difference in terms we are using here. Stringhalt and dislocation of the stifle are, in veterinary terminology, two seperate things. Dislocation of the stifle= upward patellar fixation can be partial. Stringhalt is an abnormal movement of the hind limb that is not caused by patellar problems. I have never intended to impugn riders or trainers diligent work. This is a veterinary definition.Stringhalt-like hlimb movements are one of the signs of cerv. vert. lesions.
SHOJMPR42 2 years ago
i think you have made a very good point. the riders should not be attacked if everyone really wants to improve horse training methods. Only focus on the results and comparing to other training methods will help clarify the true effect of HF. Whatever opinion ppl have about HF they should try to support research by objective science. Donate to the academic institution of your choice, there are many different research projects starting at the moment.
SHOJMPR42 2 years ago 2
If someone famous is doing it, then it must be OK. Dr Jim Heird addressed the phenomenon of 'habituation' towards cruelty in a speech he gave to AQHA judges in Dec. Google titled 'Do Right By the Horse.' He said, 'as we become more deeply entrenched in the showing/winning
aspect of our industry, we often lose contact with why we entered the industry in the beginning and shift our emphasis
to winning rather than on the well-being of the horse.'
GoingForBroken 2 years ago
I hate it sooo much when ppl comment on the trainning methods of Olypmic riders. i am sure that none of the ppl who comment on this have even riden a top dressage horse. ppl these days are sooo fucking stupid!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
richmondkrn 2 years ago 2
Comment removed
SHOJMPR42 2 years ago
@SHOJMPR42 i was regarding the ppl who comment on this vid. if there a grand prix ridder than that makes the difference. i just dont like when ppl comment on these top level ridders
richmondkrn 2 years ago 2
@richmondkrn Maybe YOU should do a little research and horse idiot can look at this and see what's wrong.
TorqueBrooklyn 1 year ago
@richmondkrn ..just watched one doing HARD pulls back with the reins during piaffe and passage, it looks horrible when you concider the strong bits inside that horses´mouth + sudden STRONG pull back with them. Im sorry but I just cant admire a rider doing such to a horse, since I´ve seen piaffe performed with soft calm hands. So very sorry.
Jefrma 9 months ago 3
This comment has received too many negative votes show
What the fuck with this guys. Why is he pulling the horse side to side on the reins like a idiot. The horse wants to get comfortable and this idiot wont let him. Fucking people!!
This is why the competitions are so fucked up!!
First some of the judges have never ridden a horse, the you get this idiots and then everybody trys to imitate what they do!!
Holly shit!! When is this going to stop!!!
just have fun with your horses!!!!
Dannyplomos 2 years ago
Its called lateral flexion.
Please stop talking from your asshole.
Gabbagail1 2 years ago
Comment removed
wejump2 2 years ago
This is the same guy on Matinee? Are you shitting me, WTF!
DeathScytheH026 2 years ago
In 4 minutes he never once releases his hold on the rein. His piaffe heavy on the front and legs are kicking out to the side, not moving up underneath. Since when does a horse have to be sawed from side to side to produce piaffe? Is this aggressive riding under the new rules?
rudyvaldez52 2 years ago
Stringhaltlike movements, shivering intermittently causes vertebral column lesion to be suspected - Hypermetria 1.43look it up
SHOJMPR42 2 years ago
Stringhalt is a dislocation of the stifel (knee) this is clearly not that. Very fancy terms you are throwing around, Too bad it has nothing to do with this rider. The working deep is to get the back up and the hind end under.
wejump2 2 years ago
Comment removed
SHOJMPR42 2 years ago
Comment removed
SHOJMPR42 2 years ago
I think we should just pull him off the horse...
lassiesuca 2 years ago
I deem this unacceptable and if the horses body language is taken into consideration then he does too
superdressagelady 2 years ago
Why do people ALWAYS use pain on a horse????
Horses like this don't work with pleasure, they move just for the pain. Bad, bad, bad.... no example.
dreamcatcherswil 2 years ago 2
Oh i wish there was more lightness!
stinahumana 2 years ago
sad sad sad - people and the need to demonstrate power by making others lower their head... Keep your head high!
MrHappyhorses 2 years ago 10
chair seat, rolled up horse, hectical flexing to both sides and a very uncompfortable horse.
it's bad enough that riders show this bad riding at warm up areas, but to demonstrate it in front of children and teens, who might not yet be able to question what they see, that's just unforgiving. zero points!
farbschlacht 2 years ago 24