Mormons aren't people, they're robot zombie spawns. They make up 2% of the population and control into the trillions of dollars collectively, own many financial corporations, transportation, food, pharmaceutical, retail, media, etc. Way more financial and political influence per capita than any other group. They literally are the largest owners of major AM and FM radio stations and majority of the hospitals in the nation. We just keep letting spread their disease in our neighborhoods too.
The higher power you speak of is Jesus. He is real. The Mormon counterfeit religion features a false Jesus. Unfortunately when people catch on that Mormonism is a cult they throw out the baby with the bathwater. Fall in love w the real Jesus. He will not (cannot) disappoint.
Mormons are not a cult they are a church, we do not dp poligamy(those people are NOT Mormon) I too have a problem with the poligemists. You sound like a sweet person and the lord loves you no matter what! The restrictions are there to protect us.
just out of curiosity, what spiritual path do you follow now? i started studying paganism after i left the momos' (not that big of a leap actually lol) & am now on my way to becomming a druid.
This woman seems very unclear on what is wrong with the Church. She says she was attacked for disagreeing with polygamy, but LDS are not polygamists, so not really an issue. Many woman do not like polygamy, BUT ITS NOT AN ISSUE BECAUSE ITS NOT PRACTICED IN THE CHURCH.
@bomac10000 Actually...yeah it is. Wrap this around you tiny little brain...Man and woman get married in the temple wife dies man is allowed to get married again in the temple. = POLYGAMY!!! I am not confused nor am I unclear. You were not there and yes I was verbally attacked for not agreeing with polygamy. I was told that it was going to be practiced whether I liked it or not.
@MistressInked So help me understand. You joined the Church, went to the Temple, served a mission, bore your testimony many times as part of the mission to investigators. You were interviewed countless times by Bishop, Mission President, etc and were asked if you had a testimony of the Restored Gospel and the leaders of the Church as Prophets, Seers, and Revelators, to which you answered "Yes, I do". Then you got asked this question on a chat room, got offended and left....is that correct?
@MistressInked Along the way, did you ever get a spiritual confirmation that the Church is true? Because you undoubtedly sat thru countless Fast and Testimony meetings, and I am betting that on at least one occasion you bore your own testimony that it was all true...yet somehow, someway, in one single moment in a chat room of all places, with someone you didn't even know you somehow got offended and decided it was all wrong...just want to make sure i am getting this correct...
@MistressInked You always have choice (agency). You can decide whether you want to be in that relationship-God compels NO ONE to do anything. You lack the fundamental trust in HF and get all wound up about an after death situation that may or may not ever occur. Its more likely that after death (IF you died before him and IF he remarried another woman who was not previously sealed to another man) you would not care at all. Instead, you chose NO MARRIAGE at all, hope that works out for you.
@bomac10000 While it's not practiced in the church now, it used to be and it used to be because of a delusional man named Joseph Smith who claimed to be a prophet. There is so much that is so troubling about this organization (cult by many people's standards). I'm always glad for people to get out of it. It's not just another Christian denomination.
Thank you for sharing! I also left the church. Truth is... mind controlling aliens created ALL religions so it's a good thing you got out. You're on a better path to discovering the God you are from within. Great Job!
and most importantly they do not worship god or jesus christ, they worship a 14yr old drunk molestor who talked to lizards in the woods and wanted multiple wives.
a guy i used to buy drugs from. a guy who i know has had sex with underage girls in exchange for sex is 2weeks sober he says... he is now bishop of the lds church in my community.
10 years ago black people were kane and not accepted in the lds church. now they pay tithing too.
caffine is bad, but the church having stock in coke and pepsi is ok.
special clothing...
secret ritual in special buildings...
if lds isn't a cult then cults have been doing it wrong.
He probably knows because he is one or is married to one... I am Mormon as well and we are not a cult, you may believe we are but we aren't and something being false is usually someone's opinion and in this case misinterpretation.
@lego571997 Honey, Look up the word cult in the dictionary. It doesn't mention Paganism at all!! Please see my video "Definition of a cult & Why resign".
@lego571997 christianity, judaism, & islam are ALL cults, catholics & mormons are christians so they fall under that as well. what you are failing to understand is that ALL organized religions are clasified under the definition of a cult. what i think you are confusing here is the word OCCULT, which has to do with paganism. but as ALL contemporary religions were once pagan (under its modern definition) or decended from pagan religions it really doesnt mater.
@lego571997 mormons & catholics DO fall under christianity as they both worship christ as the head of their faith. & ALL organized religions, including christianity, judaism, & islam are clasified as cults - websters new collegiate dictionary - cult - 1: formal religious veneration: worship 2: a system of religious belief & ritual; also: its body of adherents. learn to open a dictionary.
I am an active Mormon and quite happy about it. I do not agree with atheism, baptists, left-wingers, Satanists or the PTA. I do not follow sports, American Idol, Rachel Maddow or Bill O'riley. However, I do not have one minute of precious time in my very full life for spouting 'anti-anything' messages. Why do you waste your time promoting your perceived, but dormant, victimization? Psychologists will tell you it is because you are insecure in your position. Is that the image you mean to portray?
@theraVen27 I asked two simple questions and made an observation, no attack, no hypocrisy. It is a consistent aspect of human relations that the most offensive people tend to be the most easily offended.
@theraVen27 lol!!! Sorry to disappoint you. I will gladly pass your request on to some of my gay acquaintances. I am sure they will be impressed with your wit and charm. They may even want to meet you.
@theraVen27 Wow, I never knew that! ...having friends that do not look, think, act, or believe like me makes me a hypocrite! It's amazing what I learn on YouTube. They never taught me that in church. Being that I am the Sunday School pres & High Priest teacher in my congregation I will announce on Sunday that all that 'love thy neighbor' stuff we have been teaching from that Jesus guy all these years makes us hypocrites. I'll have to un-friend most of my facebook friends too. Thanks!
@theraVen27 Thanks for the tip. It's funny how the most intelligent people on the planet get 'taken in' by religious ideas, yet nothing gets past the 'logically challenged' spouting hatred on Youtube. Question: Does pledging allegiance to a flag of a nation that bought and sold blacks as property, that murdered and stole the land from the American natives, and that continues to bomb innocent citizens of other nations to oblivion make me a hypocrite as well?
@theraVen27 Here is the bottom line. Any philosophy that does not include a spiritual and physical discipline leaves an individual unbalanced. Spewing non sequitur 'keyboard courage' hatred towards strangers on Youtube shows you are an unbalanced loose canon in society. The Gospel of Jesus Christ makes my life work spiritually and practically, as it does for millions of Mormons. You can bang your head against that all you want. But you will be as a bug against a windshield.
@theraVen27 Defend myself? Against what? Your errors?
In case you haven't noticed, this conversation has had little to do with religion, and everything to do with your inability to post a comment showing even a thread of consistent logic, intelligence, or critical thinking skills. You hurl anti-social insults post after post, and then get your panties in a bunch when someone calls you on your rudeness. I say again, It is the most offensive people who are the most easily offended.
Let’s see here. You cannot control me, yet you think I am controlled by someone else. You cannot construct a coherent post, yet you want to tell ME how to think. You spout anger, insults, inaccuracies, and ignorance, yet you criticize me for reading a book. You cannot construct an original thought; yet you think you are so clever. So much for your ‘free thinking’.
ur inability to think, use common sense, decide for yourself, look at a person rather than judging a stereotype.. ur in a cult. ur wasting your life on lies.
i really hope you don't ruin those kids lifes with your bullshit
and u still haven't defended a single argument. ur a coward. ur a hypocrite. ur a fruitcake and a waste. u say ur lds but don't follow anything from the true joe smith "teachings"
@theraVen27 You confuse your opinions for facts. Your posts are a rhetorical disaster. Though you try hard, you have not offended me in anyway. I would have to care to be offended. You amuse me. I will discuss religion with anyone who wants to talk about what they have experienced, not what they memorized. Your absurd personal attacks against me are so far off from what anyone who knows me would ever say, there is no point in trying to have a serious discussion with you.
@theraVen27 How do you 'ruin kids lives' by telling them to accentuate the spiritual side of who they are, discover truth through living correct principles, stay away from drugs, alcohol, tobacco, sexual permissiveness, repent of sin and weakness, and find a purpose in life through serving others? And speaking of 'stereotypes', you are the only one in this conversation trying to assign them. Sorry I don't fit you stereotype of LDS. When you generalize, you end up with general lies.
@MarkyTheMormon when we've been programed since a child and are under mind control do we realize we're being controlled? Here's an indicator that religions teach programing. They teach us to believe God's love and peace is conditional and He'll will not bless you until we obey? I'm here to help you realize this is part of the mind-control programing issued by aliens. Watch "Alien Interview" in my favorites. I state the truth but it's you've job to comprehend it. Look within yourself!
@MarkyTheMormon in point of fact it does make you a hypocrite. i was born & raised in the mormon church, & was told repeatedly that i should do my utmost to associate my self with non-mormons as little as absolutely as possable, as i would run the risk of having my faith compromized. now granted maybe you didnt get the same warning as i did, but that just makes the church as a whole hypocriticle, as they are supposed to be teaching the same thing at the same time in each church world wide.
@wraithwind This is nonsense! One of the three main missions of the church is missionary work. We engage friends and strangers everywhere in all walks of life and all philosophies. You may have been instructed to choose friends wisely, but that is just common sense. There is not one thread of evidence that any church program, policy, or publication teaches Latter-day Saints to blatantly avoid non-Mormons.
@MarkyTheMormon first of all, i dont believe in common sense, if it were common, everyone would have it. second, to the best of my knowledge, you are quite correct, it isnt present in any program, police, or publication. not today any way. but that doesnt meant that it isnt present in the members them selves. that is what i mean by saying the church as a whole is hypocriticle. if they were all taught the same thing, they should all believe the same thing. either the teaching is true, or it isnt.
@wraithwind I perceive there is a humility and gentleness about your personality. This is refreshing. Too many people disagree with hostility and rudeness in Youtube posts. With no offense intended whatsoever, I detect a certain spark that burns in you. Stay close to those who love you!
you should attend a good christian church. I hope you keep god in your life. I wasn't good enough to be mormon. I drink coffee. Now i'm a bible christian, not a mormon christian. Trust me they are very different.
-IF there are hats, undergarments or accessories to wear -IF they claim to be the truth cuz god told them so -IF they promise you divine punishments if you don't follow their rules -IF they ask for money constantly -IF they use spooky language -IF they claim to god/goddess -IF the leaders too wealthy well above the average cult/religion member -IF when you have questions they tell you to pray -IF they believe in miracles -IF they claim to rise the dead -IF they control what you read *RUN AWAY *
I'm still friends with a few MORmONS? It is just really hard to see what you meant by stating that you're talking about the church/religion and not the individual members, or morons as you like to say in every other sentence. I hope your friends don't know that you refer to them as morons, I guess they look past that. Fighting hate with hate usually doens't help the situation.
@MistressInked EVERY religion claims to be the only true one.Jesus said 'many' would claim to have served him and he would say, "Get away from me you workers of lawlessness"=Matthew 7:21-23. There is a WAY the early disciples and apostles taught.This is the WAY that Jesus started. They went house to house, preaching that God's Kingdom is coming.There is ONE faith that is following the early disciples=Matthew 4:17,5:5, chapter 10, 24:14,28:19,20,Acts 1:8,5:42,20:20.They preach God's name=Jehovah
@datkjmk mine doesnt claim to be the only true one. mine says that there are MANY paths to truth. you should find your own based on what feels right to you, not because someone else says its the right one, or the only one, or that something terible will hapen if you dont follow it. that is a path based on fear, not love.
@danthedark96 JAMES 4:11-12. Brothers, do not slander one another. Anyone who speaks against his brother or judges him speaks against the law and judges it. When you judge the law, you are not keeping it, but sitting in judgment on it. There is only one Lawgiver and Judge, the who is able to save and destroy. But you--who are you to judge your neighbor?
Lets say that I drank Coca Cola for a long time, but then one day I tried pepsi and I really liked it. Should I then go out and begin preaching about the evils of Coca Cola?
@myway43 That is such a stupid analogy!! It doesn't even fit!! Try this on for size!! The Kid's movie "Tangled". A child is raised 2 believe the world outside is evil & bad. Danger lurks around every corner. U r safe inside the castle. Suddenly u r outside & u discover u have been lied 2 all ur life!! The world outside the castle is a wonderful, beautiful, exciting place & the ppl in it r amazing wonderful ppl!! U would have never known about any of it, had u stayed INSIDE the castle(cult)!!
If you do not believe in the Church then fine, but why do you now feel obligated to refer to the Church as a cult? It was apparently fine to you at one time. But now since you decide to leave the Church you decide to brand it as a cult? This Church has been the most magnificent to me.
@myway43 I refer to it as a cult because it IS a cult!!! When you are inside, you don't know or realize the danger you are in. As with ALL cults, MORmONISM is very dangerous. It is full of hate, bigotry and oppression. Women are little more than 2nd class citizens.
@MistressInked You believe the church is dangerous? What are they gonna do, give you a bad look? Yes, I am a member, but don't think I am oblivious to the outside, i'm not from Provo! Im from Denver, anyway last night I was at the bar and I had a drink, or several. Will I go to church sunday? Yes, I love the people and I know that the Church is true. Do I think the church is wrong about it's position on drinking? No, they are completely correct, but I have my agency and I can do what I want.
@ChadBav Sweetie, in a way, they do indeed force you. Its called passive aggression and peer pressure. Single women are told to not even consider marrying a man unless they have served a mission. MORmONS teach hate and intolerance. If you don't fit into their mold of the perfect MORmON, you're pretty much screwed.
@MistressInked Passive aggression and peer pressure can be found in any social structure. Does that mean we shouldn't go to school? My girlfriend could care less if I served a mission. I try not to teach hate and intolerance and most of my friends in the church don't either. And who is 'they' that you are talking about, that if I don't fit in their mold? Some judgmental jerks in the church? sure they exist. But it's not everyone and it's not the members I send time with.
@ChadBav One thing I need to make clear is that I'm talking about the religion itself not individual members. I'm actually still friends with a few MORmONS. The hate and intolerance I speak of is against gays and the MORmON hierarchy's treatment of them. Its good to hear that you yourself do not hate.
@MistressInked The worst thing that could happen is someone will judge me and think that I am a bad person, but that can happen anywhere! They don't force people to be a certain way, they just teach good morals. I am sorry if your parents are crazy, mine would love me no matter what happens, or what I do, and yes they are members as well. I am not a perfect person, but I know that God loves me and that this is His church.
@MistressInked Yeah, I guess that makes me normal and a mormon :) Oh and you are right, sorry about the parents comment, I got ahead of myself and assumed that that was one of your reasonings because of a crazy upbringing where you felt trapped (like what you wrote about Tangled) my bad! My point is I love the church but also enjoy other aspects of life, and the church has only been a benefit to me.
@ChadBav You are free to live your life as you please sweetie. One thing I'd like for you to do is look into the REAL history of ur so-called religion. Joe Smith lied, he is a sexual deviant and a con-artist. Please read the book: One Nation Under Gods: A History of the Mormon Church written by Richard Abanes. He shows court documents stating the real reputation of Joe Smith.
@strikeofthephantom If I'm not mistaken, weren't there two missionaries who took pictures of themselves in less than flattering poses at the Mother Cabrini shine in Colorado? I saw the pictrues, but can't remember where it happened.
Unlike the moron god, the God of the bible never endorsed polygamy. It was something done in the flesh of men. It always produced heartache and disaster. Joe smith said it was the new and everlasting covenant and if you do not abide in it you WILL be damned. If you are not a polygamous mormon you are damned as this was an EVERLASTING covenant. The weak sissy mormon god reversed his decree when Wash DC said give it up or we will confiscate your land an kick your butts to mexico.Can this god save
Im so glad I attended seminaries and Institutes to know MORE of whats below the versus of each Holy writings..But i can relate to the on and off of your family in the church..Mormons are not perfect they gossip too..they have weaknesses like any other Human.That`s why for me its not the other people will judge you on the last days..so do your work and be humble and be forgiving, understanding,,,for in the last days its the Lord who will judge us.
All This Sounds Like Your Blaming All Of Your Personal Problems Onto A Religion Instead Of Taking Action On Your Own Part.. :/ .. Idk... Everyone I Hear That Leaves It's Personal Issues That They Don't Wanna Deal With.. I Can't understad Why That Is So. Do You Know Why Polygamy Was First Instilled??
@Furyan215 Little boy, little boy... Grow up and learn about life. I left the MORmON cult because I learned about its TRUE history. I learned that Joe Smith was a fraud, a con man, and a sexual deviant. Polygamy started with JS NOT BY!! Just because it has COJCOLDS stamped on it doesn't mean that its the truth kiddo!! WAKE UP!!!
@Furyan215 Yah I left the MORmON church over personal problems, the personal problem that Gordon Hinckley had with LYING all the time & Joseph Smith's personal problem with LYING , RAPING, & THIEVING!
@Furyan215 Are you talking about when the church leadership was first practiced polygamy or when D&C 132 was first published. There's a big difference.
Mistressorangatits, Though I have no idea who you are, I'm sure you grew up a jackmormon and maybe even married some idiot in the temple. But we both know you never served an LDS mission let alone ever gained a testimony! So I was just wondering, why lie to people? Oh let me guess "It's ok to lie if it's to bring folks to the real Jayzus!" It's clear you have a lot of anger towards the church. But hey sis, you're out now! let it go! Gotta say I'm a bit afraid for ya.. (Judgement day) good luck!
@rosarae Seriously, How retarded are you? 1st you insult me, then call me a liar. Yet, in your 1st sentence you admit you don't know me. Unfortunately, I did serve a MORmON mission. New Mexico in the mid 80's to be exact. If I never had a testimony, I would have left YEARS ago. I'm not lying to anyone, I'm telling the 100% truth. One more thing......I'M NOT A CHRISTIAN!!!
@MistressInked Proof that you are a liar is that the Mormon chur..... um Mormon cult is AGAINST poligamy!! So get your facts straight before you spew anymore bullshit. In otherwords, Watch Big Love a little closer!
@rosarae I've never seen a single episode of Big Love. I really don't watch that much TV. Besides watching TV would distract me from making these very important videos!! In the chatroom, we were talking about how it was going to be practiced again.
@oceantalk1 Look it's really simple. Brigham Young was speaking about that time, when it was called of the early Mormons to take on polygamy. (Just as it was in the bible) Secondly, The Journal of Discourses is not LDS doctrine! Brigham and yes, even Joseph Smith has probably said alot of fucked up things. They are only mortal, sinful men just like you and me.
@rosarae stop lying God never commanded polygamy in the bible learn something now........Since God only allows for polygamy, and does not command it, a law prohibiting polygamy should be upheld.
joseph smith was just full of lust and sexual desires for other men wives and for young under age girls plain and simple.
@oceantalk1 You're right! All us mormons believe that a law against polygamy should be upheld. And it is a fact that the early mormons would not have flourished like they did without polygamy. So maybe God knew what he was doing. SEXUAL DESIRES??!! are you kidding me? have you seen photos of those women? And as far as polygamy not being biblical, I think you should read it again a little more closely. Shit, I keep forgetting you are not a christian. That must be Barry Gibb in your profile pic.
@rosarae I'm a born again christian that is saved by grace,I have been redeemed by the precious blood of the lamb,that has washed all my sins away,all my faith and trust is in the biblical Jesus Christ,I'm on my way to heaven. I'm a christian inside and out that is why I obey the biblical Jesus Christ. I have been reborn spiritually john 3:3 I belong to the biblical Jesus Christ,this is my christian testimony.................
@oceantalk1 I'm getting kind of bored talking to you but if you want to debate me, Mormons vs Bornagain fanaticism, then bring it on sister! Warning however, I will clean your clock and have you seriously doubting what you now believe. Are you sure you want to do this?????????
@rosarae Is that right? Why, then, was the church leadership still practicing polygamy after the manifesto of 1890? And don't forget that D&C 132:4 says that polygamy is a 'new and everlasting covenant,' which translates, somehow, to 14 years.
@moparmonster1965 1. Some members continued the practice of polygamy after the church banned it. Those members were most likely excommunicated. 2. We believe that marriages sealed in the temple can be eternal, therefore "everlasting". 3. The JOD are teachings, sermons etc. from the past to assist with understanding of church doctrine just as is attending church or fellowship in the present day. So please do not try to deceive people, the JOD is NOT church doctrine!!
@moparmonster1965 I remember being where you are now, trying to disprove the LDS church. It backfired on me! OK, Joseph F Smith sr.: He married his 5th and last wife 6 yrs before the 1890 manifesto. He wrote the 2nd manifesto as pres. in 1905 and ordered any member that takes part in any NEW plural marriages was to be excommunicated. He plead guilty to the gov. for cohab. with 4 women in addition to his 1 legal wife and gladly paid the $300 fine.
We also still have the fact that the church was practicing polygamy before D&C 132 was added in 1876, and the old section 101 was very clear that the church was not practicing it. At what point does the church gain the ability to lie and publicly deceive while doing the exact opposite of their own scriptures?
Backfired? Did you mean back slide? There's nothing but fuzzy feelings and false hope to support Mormonism. Sorry.
@moparmonster1965 In both manifesto's, Snow and Smith both made it clear they would not ask any member to put out any plural wives that were married prior to or their children (Let no man tear asunder). Although a few members began living with 1 wife, most, including Smith did not. This was breaking a federal law in which Smith did plea guilty to just as I stated earlier. Smith may of had 6 wives I only know of 5, so what! He was last married in 1884, 6 yrs. before the manifesto.
But yes, Smith had five wives, and whether he actually lived with them or not isn't the point; that he fathered 11 children after the Manifesto within the confines of polygamy is.
@moparmonster1965 Dear God are you serious? For the last time (I hope) Yes they continued polygamy in the fact that they still lived with the wives they already had! Would you throw your spouse out of the house along with your children? I hope you wouldn't. They never denied this. The manifesto states that they would cease any FURTHER marriages from then on which they did obey! Those who did not were excommunicated! Finally JFS did not father 11 kids after 1876. THAT IS A LIE! lol
@moparmonster1965 Dear God are you serious? For the last time (I hope) Yes they continued polygamy in the fact that they still lived with the wives they already had! Would you throw your spouse out of the house along with your children? I hope you wouldn't. They never denied this. The manifesto states that they would cease any FURTHER marriages from then on which they did obey! Those who did not were excommunicated! Finally JFS did not father 11 kids after 1876. THAT IS A LIE! lol
@rosarae Okay, excellent. I touched on this in a previosu response so just ignore it. We agree that Smith fathered 11 children after 1890, and that he and other church leadership were actively engaged in polygamy before the church permitted it.
Yes, that's what the Manifesto states, but that's not what the legislation states. Not only that, but the church continued to engage new polygamous marriages by going to Mexico or doing so in a boat not on US soil.
@moparmonster1965 I thought the number was 2 or 3 but it could have been 11 or even a bit more. I must ask however what is your point? I did hear that some Mormons went to mexico to take more plural wives but I don't know if thats true. Regardless, the church leaders were against this so those people were probably excommunicated. JFS was strongly against continuing polygamy and made that very clear. So what on this matter shows that the LDS church is wrong? Keeping their wives is morally right!
@moparmonster1965 Also you stated that JFS married all his wives before D & C 132? He was 5 yrs. old when that revelation was recorded so how do you figure he married all his wives before then? lol
@rosarae Hang on... D&C 132 was first printed in 1876, making Smith 38 at the time, as he was born in 1838. His marriages were to Julina Lambson in 1866, to Sarah Ellen Richards in 1868, to Edna Lambson in 1871, to Alice Ann Kimball in 1883, and to Mary Taylor Schwartz in 1884.
That means that he took three of his wives while the church was still claiming that it wasn't practicing polygamy in its own doctrine.
@moparmonster1965 Sorry, but section 132 was recorded in 1943. One year before he was murdered.lol And what do you mean by change of tone? For your info. I am not an active mormon. Meaning I dont go to church or live the life. I smoke, party, sin and jerk-off probably way too often! lol One thing I do know is that the LDS church is true!
And still, even when it was as-yet unpublished, church leadership were taking wives when their own doctrine said exactly the opposite. That's my point here.
We're all sinners and if you can admit that, fair enough. I have a trophy chest full of them myself, but I just want to show you that the church has been less-than-honest about this matter, polygamy. God gave us common sense for a reason and oftentimes, the easy answer is the correct one.
@rosarae Yes, you're right; it was recorded on July 12, 1843. Emma caught Joseph with another woman and he was apparently afraid to talk to her about it so he he had Hyrum take down the 'revelation' and present it to her (Hyrum also may have volunteered).
But again, it wasn't published until 1876 so the lay congregation probably didn't know the extent of it, though I believe they knew something was going on.
@moparmonster1965 So ole Joe Smith was getting down and dirty with the 12yo sitter, Emma walks in on them, Joe has to fake a revelation with his bro! I get it. Where did you read this? The Journal of discourses? Look you are obviously more knowledgeable than I on this subject, but I do know the words of sec.132 was known by the faithful back then. The D&C was changed a few times, but only to clarify church doctrine, not to cover shit up. I am impressed though. Keep it up you will 1 of us! LOL
Yes, I'm very knowledgeable on this stuff, but I don't want to beat you over the head with it. I want to show you that there's more to the story than what the church tells its members. There are a lot of things that have been deliberately omitted from what the church teaches, and that's the reason that modern members often don't know much of its history.
No chance of me ever being a member; I'm cult-proof.
I don't use the JOD that much, but I now know why the church is terrified of what it contains. This information is found in History of the Church (HOTC) vol. 5, pp 500-501, and it clearly says that the revelation was received on July 12th, 1843. Did you catch that? It was received that day, not recorded the way D&C claims. That makes a big difference, doesn't it?
Putting the revelation to paper in 1843 was probably more for damage control than anything else; Smith knew he was in deep trouble with Emma, but it, like all of his other revelations, was fraudulent.
@rosarae That about sizes it up. Smith became a polygamist somewhere between 1831 and 1833, and the church flat-out lied about it for years to both the public and the lay congregation, even while the leaders actively practiced it. They did so through their official doctrine and their other publications, like Deseret News and Times and Seasons.
@moparmonster1965 Hey, Oliver Stone! lol Look, According to the LDS church JS was not a polygamist. Whether he was or not could not have been hidden. So no reason to cover anything up. You are somewhat correct that all members could not practice it. I believe they were called upon. probably a family that could support such a task. As far as what you said about revelation, There is no rules when or how God talks to a prophet or person. That is absolutely silly.
My wife's family were polygamist Mormons years ago and I find that three of her ancestors had two, three, and four wives respectively. Please tell me how poor simpleton Mick coal miners were so special to be called forth to engage in polygamy.
Smith's actions couldn't have been hidden? Is that right? You're aware that he was using peep stones in his hat the same way he 'translated' the BOM years before any mention of angels and gold plates, right? Most of Smith's history has been altered or fabricated over the years to make it look cohesive. For example, there are no fewer than 10 different accounts of the Furst Vision. Did you know that?
Further, we find that the LDS publication, Millenial Star, stated: "The Latter-Day Saints, fromthe rise of the church in 1830 till the year 1843, had no authority to marry any more than one wife each. To have done otherwise would have been a great transgression." (vol 19, p 475)
@rosarae According to Lorenzo Snow, he was exactly that, testifying that anyone living in plural marriage prior to the time of the revelation was living in adultery under both the laws of the church and the state. (Temple Lot Case, p 320)
@moparmonster1965 As I said earlier, you're getting to much of your info from anti-mormon lit. Here is something else for you to ponder on. From the beginning of the LDS church, The number of general authorities who left the church can be counted probably on 1 hand? and of those who did, still witness that JS was a prophet of God and the book of Mormon is true. Did you also know that all the apostles testimonies are more than faith based? How come no one that gets to that point never calls BS?
And then there's Martin Harris who changed religions constantly, being a member of some seven different faiths over the years. The early church leadership isn't as lilly-white as you might think, but you won't find out much about that from the church itself.
I would guess that the apostle's testimonies are probably cash-based since we know that the church is incredibly wealthy and not opposed to paying its clergy. I would guess they can be bought and sold for enough money.
@rosarae The only places I can find that say church workers should not be paid are 2 Nephi 26:31 and Mosiah 27:5.
D&C, however, paints a much different picture: 24:18-19, 42:70-73, 51:13-14, 75:24, 84:78-79, 86-89, and 119:1-2 all show that it's okay for people to be paid for church activity.
@rosarae I only wish I had that information. I'm simply showing you that there's a lot more in the church's doctrine supporting pay for the members than not. The amount of money the church likely takes in per year is staggering, even if faithful members, all 13 million of them, only pay 5%. That's not including members who are wealthy, like Stephanie Meyer or Mitt Romney, who are well and above better off financially than the rest.
@moparmonster1965The Church has many on it's payroll, but it's clergy is 100% voluntary as far as I know. That must sting don't it? I mean the thousands who Swindle, Cheat, Lie, Fornicate, Steal and according to you, Murder all to just spread the holy word of God and help others in need. "Ye shall know them by their fruits". The LDS fruits are, Promoting strong moral families, obeying the commandments, helping ALL people in need and the strongest and most dedicated missionary program on earth!
If you mean possible damnation for following a false gospel, yes, you're right, we shall know them as such. But I understand what you meant, and it shows that the church places an over-emphasis on works in place of grace.
Just because Mormons have strong morals doesn't make them correct any more than it makes my Muslim neighbor correct, does it?
Just because I'm against Mormonism doesn't mean I give anyone a pass for the same thing. Like I told you, I grew up Catholic and you have no idea how deep that rabbit hold goes, and how the church has misused and abused its power, and I'm certainly not excusing them.
@moparmonster1965 Ouch! Not really anything you can say about that statement now is there! But still you bear FALSE witness against the church. The reason the church is so successful is because it is a 100% lay ministry, meaning NO CORRUPTION.
@rosarae So, in comparing one to the other, which one weighs more? How is applying logic bearing "false witness?" If anything, I'm giving your church the benefit of the doubt because I'm using the standards of Orson Pratt for evaluating the church's authenticity: "...convince us of our errors of doctrine, if we have any, by reason, by locial arguments, or by the word of God..." (The Seer, Jan 1853)
@moparmonster1965 Excuse me, but we haven't even touched on doctrine yet. And it is only clear that YOU have established there is multiple Gods i.e. Mormon God, Catholic God, Protestant God etc. And although there were 3 witnesses initially, there were a number of people who seen them and not a single soul ever denied it. even to their death. Even the apostates never denied it though it would have benefited them greatly. No they eventually made their war back and was re baptized into the church!
@rosarae We actually did touch on doctrine and you haven't been able to explain the reason that the prophet isn't really required to follow it. No, I established no such thing. There is one God and one God only (even the BOM says so), but I use the term "Mormon god" or "Mormon jesus" to separate Mormon theology or concept as a contrast against Christian theology or concept.
We've touched on the Three, but we can continue if you like, but you're not gonna like all of it.
Respond to this video... And finally, you have no evidence for the LDS church paying their clergy because they simply don't. All the evidence you have showed me from the beginning are hearsay, Flat out lies or misinterpretation. OUCH this has to hurt. lol
Hearsay? I think you need to be able to add one and one together and get two before you call something hearsay. I proved you were mistaken about Joseph F. Smith's polygamy on all points as well as other problems with polygamy.
Since you were wrong about those, what else might you be wrong about? And if lying and taking others' wives as your own means 'no corruption' to you, your standards are appallingly low.
@rosarae I found it: "Because the Church has no professional clergy, it is administered at every level through LAY PARTICIPATION AND LEADERSHIP, and officials other than the General Authorities contribute their time and talents without remuneration. ...Because the General Authorities are obliged to leave their regular employment for full-time Church service, they receive a modest living allowance provided from income on Church investments." (Encyclopedia of Mormonism, p. 510)
@moparmonster1965 Look, I have responded to every single Item you have throw out here. This is a list of what we have learned. Mormons practiced polygamy. They stopped any further plural marriages after 1890. They continued to live with their plural wives. They broke US laws. Emma catching joe with another woman is HEARSAY and ridiculous. I did know that the Gen. Auths. Got an allowance and the Pres. has an apartment paid by the church.
@moparmonster1965 All witnesses stood by their story. I have been wrong on some things and admitted when I was. You have been wrong repeatedly and have never admitted it. From all that we have discussed, you have shown me absolutely nothing to make me think that the LDS has lied or covered up anything let alone make me feel that the church is false. I also have been a trooper and have only been on the defense this hole time. I haven't even thrown a punch yet! And I'm kicking your ass! lol!
And third, if you believe one thing he said, why not another? In his pamphlet, "An Address to All Believers in Christ," he affirmed his witnessing the plates, but also stated that not only was Smith a fallen prophet as of about 1838, but that he claimed that God told him to leave the church altogether.
He flip-flopped his position and this makes him unreliable as a 'Witness.'
After Smith's murder, Whitmer again became involved with the church, hoping that his ordination as Smith's successor on July 7, 1834 would carry some weight. He organized a second "Church of Christ," as the LDS were known in the beginning, in 1876.
The bank itself was illegal because the US wasn't issuing charters at that time, and this didn't endear him to Smith. Whitmer was subsequently threatened with death if he didn't leave Caldwell County, Missouri. He did and then sued the church, which played into the 1838 Mormon War, ultimately resulting in all of the Mormons being expelled from Missouri in 1839.
@rosarae First, if that's your only basis for accepting their testimony, your standard of proof is very low.
Second, this doesn't take into account the fact that Whitmer spoke out against the Kirtland bank scam that Smith said would gain the church all the money it needed to pay its debts, which never came to pass.
Kicking my ass? I must've missed that part. But yes, you're right, you've been in the defensive the entire time because your version of the church is refuted by the facts about it. You simply retreat to the "I know the church is true, no matter what!" defense in spite of you admitting that you drink, party, and jerk off too much. If the church were really true, you'd be a faithful member, not a Jack Mormon so there's more to your story that what you've told me so far.
Kicking my ass? I must've missed that part. But yes, you've been on the defensive because when your concept of Mormonism is challenged by actual facts, you retreat to the "I know the church is true, no matter what!" defense in spite of the fact that you admit that you party, drink, and jerk off too much. If the church were really true, you'd be a faithful member, not a jack Mormon, so there's more to your story than what you're telling me, I think.
Kicking my ass? I must've missed that part. But yes, you've been on the defensive because when your concept of Mormonism is challenged by actual facts, you retreat to the "I know the church is true, no matter what!" defense in spite of the fact that you admit that you party, drink, and jerk off too much. If the church were really true, you'd be a faithful member, not a jack Mormon, so there's more to your story than what you're telling me, I think.
Kicking my ass? I must've missed that part. But yes, you've been on the defensive because when your concept of Mormonism is challenged by actual facts, you retreat to the "I know the church is true, no matter what!" defense in spite of the fact that you admit that you party, drink, and jerk off too much. If the church were really true, you'd be a faithful member, not a jack Mormon, so there's more to your story than what you're telling me, I think.
@rosarae You've admitted no such thing; when proven wrong, you said nothing, and quietly moved on to the next point. You, however, have proven me wrong at no time and I thus had nothing to admit.
If you don't accept the fact that the church, in its official doctrine, claimed that it wasn't practicing polygamy when it clearly was on two occasions as being dishonest, I don't know what to tell you. I also can't make you accept the fact that the sky is blue, but if you don't, that's up to you.
Mormons aren't people, they're robot zombie spawns. They make up 2% of the population and control into the trillions of dollars collectively, own many financial corporations, transportation, food, pharmaceutical, retail, media, etc. Way more financial and political influence per capita than any other group. They literally are the largest owners of major AM and FM radio stations and majority of the hospitals in the nation. We just keep letting spread their disease in our neighborhoods too.
ped200014 3 weeks ago
The higher power you speak of is Jesus. He is real. The Mormon counterfeit religion features a false Jesus. Unfortunately when people catch on that Mormonism is a cult they throw out the baby with the bathwater. Fall in love w the real Jesus. He will not (cannot) disappoint.
WordMinistry 1 month ago
Mormons are not a cult they are a church, we do not dp poligamy(those people are NOT Mormon) I too have a problem with the poligemists. You sound like a sweet person and the lord loves you no matter what! The restrictions are there to protect us.
chrissykitte 1 month ago
just out of curiosity, what spiritual path do you follow now? i started studying paganism after i left the momos' (not that big of a leap actually lol) & am now on my way to becomming a druid.
wraithwind 1 month ago
What is to be gained by calling anyone a MORmON? If you claim to be Christian, then live what it says. "
Whatsever you do to the least of my brothers, that you have done unto me"
Do you think the Father is please that you call his children names?
bomac10000 1 month ago 3
@bomac10000 I'm NOT a christian. They are as fucked up as MORmONS!!!
MistressInked 6 days ago
This woman seems very unclear on what is wrong with the Church. She says she was attacked for disagreeing with polygamy, but LDS are not polygamists, so not really an issue. Many woman do not like polygamy, BUT ITS NOT AN ISSUE BECAUSE ITS NOT PRACTICED IN THE CHURCH.
bomac10000 1 month ago
@bomac10000 Actually...yeah it is. Wrap this around you tiny little brain...Man and woman get married in the temple wife dies man is allowed to get married again in the temple. = POLYGAMY!!! I am not confused nor am I unclear. You were not there and yes I was verbally attacked for not agreeing with polygamy. I was told that it was going to be practiced whether I liked it or not.
MistressInked 1 month ago 3
@MistressInked So help me understand. You joined the Church, went to the Temple, served a mission, bore your testimony many times as part of the mission to investigators. You were interviewed countless times by Bishop, Mission President, etc and were asked if you had a testimony of the Restored Gospel and the leaders of the Church as Prophets, Seers, and Revelators, to which you answered "Yes, I do". Then you got asked this question on a chat room, got offended and left....is that correct?
bomac10000 1 month ago 2
@MistressInked Along the way, did you ever get a spiritual confirmation that the Church is true? Because you undoubtedly sat thru countless Fast and Testimony meetings, and I am betting that on at least one occasion you bore your own testimony that it was all true...yet somehow, someway, in one single moment in a chat room of all places, with someone you didn't even know you somehow got offended and decided it was all wrong...just want to make sure i am getting this correct...
bomac10000 1 month ago 2
@MistressInked You always have choice (agency). You can decide whether you want to be in that relationship-God compels NO ONE to do anything. You lack the fundamental trust in HF and get all wound up about an after death situation that may or may not ever occur. Its more likely that after death (IF you died before him and IF he remarried another woman who was not previously sealed to another man) you would not care at all. Instead, you chose NO MARRIAGE at all, hope that works out for you.
bomac10000 1 month ago 2
@bomac10000 While it's not practiced in the church now, it used to be and it used to be because of a delusional man named Joseph Smith who claimed to be a prophet. There is so much that is so troubling about this organization (cult by many people's standards). I'm always glad for people to get out of it. It's not just another Christian denomination.
Paula120906 4 weeks ago
WHY I LEFT THE MORMON CHURCH AND BECAME A DAHESHIST:
h t t p : / / markofcain dot angelfire dot cain / WHY dot h t m l
mrdarrickevenson 1 month ago
Thank you for sharing! I also left the church. Truth is... mind controlling aliens created ALL religions so it's a good thing you got out. You're on a better path to discovering the God you are from within. Great Job!
compassion4truth 1 month ago
and most importantly they do not worship god or jesus christ, they worship a 14yr old drunk molestor who talked to lizards in the woods and wanted multiple wives.
end game.
theraVen27 2 months ago
@theraVen27 What is this about a drunk molestor talking to lizards? I've never heard that one before.
juanjoseantoniopedro 3 days ago
@juanjoseantoniopedro
do a little research into the history of your lord and saviour joe smith.
it's well documented
theraVen27 2 days ago
a guy i used to buy drugs from. a guy who i know has had sex with underage girls in exchange for sex is 2weeks sober he says... he is now bishop of the lds church in my community.
10 years ago black people were kane and not accepted in the lds church. now they pay tithing too.
caffine is bad, but the church having stock in coke and pepsi is ok.
special clothing...
secret ritual in special buildings...
if lds isn't a cult then cults have been doing it wrong.
theraVen27 2 months ago
Mormonism is a cult i almost feel for there lies until god help me catch my balance
shadowchild66613 2 months ago 4
@shadowchild66613 Where were these lies, and what did you feel in them?
juanjoseantoniopedro 3 days ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@shadowchild66613 Where were these lies, and what did you feel in them?
juanjoseantoniopedro 3 days ago
He probably knows because he is one or is married to one... I am Mormon as well and we are not a cult, you may believe we are but we aren't and something being false is usually someone's opinion and in this case misinterpretation.
RoccoBoy16v 2 months ago
@RoccoBoy16v He, like you knows absolutely NOTHING!! MORmONISM is a cult. By definition ALL religions are cults.
MistressInked 2 months ago 2
@MistressInked No their not cults are something either pagan or ritualistic or secretive
lego571997 1 month ago
@lego571997 Honey, Look up the word cult in the dictionary. It doesn't mention Paganism at all!! Please see my video "Definition of a cult & Why resign".
MistressInked 1 month ago
@lego571997 & mormons arnt?
wraithwind 1 month ago
@wraithwind mormons are a cult im saying Christianity and Judaism and Islam arent cults,im not sure about catholics
lego571997 1 month ago
@lego571997 christianity, judaism, & islam are ALL cults, catholics & mormons are christians so they fall under that as well. what you are failing to understand is that ALL organized religions are clasified under the definition of a cult. what i think you are confusing here is the word OCCULT, which has to do with paganism. but as ALL contemporary religions were once pagan (under its modern definition) or decended from pagan religions it really doesnt mater.
wraithwind 1 month ago
@wraithwind Mormons and Catholics dont fall under Christianity and mormonism is an cult nut not Christianity or Judaism. And learn to spell
lego571997 1 month ago
@lego571997 Actually, they are the only two that claim direct authority from God, its either one or the other, and cannot be another religion.
bomac10000 1 month ago
@lego571997 mormons & catholics DO fall under christianity as they both worship christ as the head of their faith. & ALL organized religions, including christianity, judaism, & islam are clasified as cults - websters new collegiate dictionary - cult - 1: formal religious veneration: worship 2: a system of religious belief & ritual; also: its body of adherents. learn to open a dictionary.
wraithwind 1 month ago
I am an active Mormon and quite happy about it. I do not agree with atheism, baptists, left-wingers, Satanists or the PTA. I do not follow sports, American Idol, Rachel Maddow or Bill O'riley. However, I do not have one minute of precious time in my very full life for spouting 'anti-anything' messages. Why do you waste your time promoting your perceived, but dormant, victimization? Psychologists will tell you it is because you are insecure in your position. Is that the image you mean to portray?
MarkyTheMormon 3 months ago
@MarkyTheMormon
found time to be pretty negative and personally attacking this woman and her feelings.
more hypocrisy from the church!
theraVen27 2 months ago 2
@theraVen27 I asked two simple questions and made an observation, no attack, no hypocrisy. It is a consistent aspect of human relations that the most offensive people tend to be the most easily offended.
MarkyTheMormon 2 months ago
@MarkyTheMormon
if i say hey you look like a real faggot do you suck dick? is it ok?? i just asked a question...
ur right it is always the bible thumpers who get offended.
theraVen27 2 months ago
@theraVen27 lol!!! Sorry to disappoint you. I will gladly pass your request on to some of my gay acquaintances. I am sure they will be impressed with your wit and charm. They may even want to meet you.
MarkyTheMormon 2 months ago
@MarkyTheMormon
more hypocracy from mormon marky...
u have gay friends? hows the church feel about them?
ur mingling with the damned if u follow ur beliefs
theraVen27 2 months ago
@theraVen27 Wow, I never knew that! ...having friends that do not look, think, act, or believe like me makes me a hypocrite! It's amazing what I learn on YouTube. They never taught me that in church. Being that I am the Sunday School pres & High Priest teacher in my congregation I will announce on Sunday that all that 'love thy neighbor' stuff we have been teaching from that Jesus guy all these years makes us hypocrites. I'll have to un-friend most of my facebook friends too. Thanks!
MarkyTheMormon 2 months ago
@MarkyTheMormon
not surprised that ur high in the church and know nothing about it..
yes marky moron ur a hypocrite.
by ur beliefs thy neighbor is cane cause he is black
thy neighbor is a sinner in laying with man
or
ur beliefs, ur religion, is garbage lies and ur a hypocrite.
theraVen27 2 months ago
@theraVen27 Thanks for the tip. It's funny how the most intelligent people on the planet get 'taken in' by religious ideas, yet nothing gets past the 'logically challenged' spouting hatred on Youtube. Question: Does pledging allegiance to a flag of a nation that bought and sold blacks as property, that murdered and stole the land from the American natives, and that continues to bomb innocent citizens of other nations to oblivion make me a hypocrite as well?
MarkyTheMormon 2 months ago
@MarkyTheMormon
hahaha nobody has ever accused any religious person of being intelligent.
no that's your country not your beliefs and it's law that those are seperate...and for good reason.
but you are free to change either one as you please.
the rest of the world is also free to see your stupidity and call you a hypocrite
theraVen27 2 months ago
@theraVen27 Here is the bottom line. Any philosophy that does not include a spiritual and physical discipline leaves an individual unbalanced. Spewing non sequitur 'keyboard courage' hatred towards strangers on Youtube shows you are an unbalanced loose canon in society. The Gospel of Jesus Christ makes my life work spiritually and practically, as it does for millions of Mormons. You can bang your head against that all you want. But you will be as a bug against a windshield.
MarkyTheMormon 2 months ago
@MarkyTheMormon
bottom line ur a hypocrite. in a cult. you have no free thinking and u follow a book written from a 14yr old drunk liar.
and you can't even defend yourself cause u know u are wrong so all u do is turn and insult me calling me a loose cannon.
u can't decide if a black man is the devil or not unless he gives u money and i'm the problem in society...
u don't know what being a good person is unless a book tells you.
enjoy ur sheltered lie markymoron.
theraVen27 2 months ago
@theraVen27 Defend myself? Against what? Your errors?
In case you haven't noticed, this conversation has had little to do with religion, and everything to do with your inability to post a comment showing even a thread of consistent logic, intelligence, or critical thinking skills. You hurl anti-social insults post after post, and then get your panties in a bunch when someone calls you on your rudeness. I say again, It is the most offensive people who are the most easily offended.
MarkyTheMormon 2 months ago
@MarkyTheMormon
no moron i think for myself. this convo had everything to do with your cult even tho u say it didn't. i'm not 8 u wont scare me into ur thinking.
ur the guy who only accepts blacks when they agree to pay tithing
ur the guy who follows the "teachings" of a 14yr drunk liar
ur cult being one of the youngest has changed their "core values" more than any church in history.
you are correct for the 2nd time ur very offensive and very very easily offended.
theraVen27 2 months ago
Let’s see here. You cannot control me, yet you think I am controlled by someone else. You cannot construct a coherent post, yet you want to tell ME how to think. You spout anger, insults, inaccuracies, and ignorance, yet you criticize me for reading a book. You cannot construct an original thought; yet you think you are so clever. So much for your ‘free thinking’.
MarkyTheMormon 2 months ago
@theraVen27 We accept all people. There aren't any requirements. And Joseph Smith never drank.
juanjoseantoniopedro 3 days ago
@MarkyTheMormon
ur inability to think, use common sense, decide for yourself, look at a person rather than judging a stereotype.. ur in a cult. ur wasting your life on lies.
i really hope you don't ruin those kids lifes with your bullshit
and u still haven't defended a single argument. ur a coward. ur a hypocrite. ur a fruitcake and a waste. u say ur lds but don't follow anything from the true joe smith "teachings"
ejoy ur sheltered lie moron
theraVen27 2 months ago
@theraVen27 You confuse your opinions for facts. Your posts are a rhetorical disaster. Though you try hard, you have not offended me in anyway. I would have to care to be offended. You amuse me. I will discuss religion with anyone who wants to talk about what they have experienced, not what they memorized. Your absurd personal attacks against me are so far off from what anyone who knows me would ever say, there is no point in trying to have a serious discussion with you.
MarkyTheMormon 2 months ago
@theraVen27 How do you 'ruin kids lives' by telling them to accentuate the spiritual side of who they are, discover truth through living correct principles, stay away from drugs, alcohol, tobacco, sexual permissiveness, repent of sin and weakness, and find a purpose in life through serving others? And speaking of 'stereotypes', you are the only one in this conversation trying to assign them. Sorry I don't fit you stereotype of LDS. When you generalize, you end up with general lies.
MarkyTheMormon 2 months ago
@MarkyTheMormon when we've been programed since a child and are under mind control do we realize we're being controlled? Here's an indicator that religions teach programing. They teach us to believe God's love and peace is conditional and He'll will not bless you until we obey? I'm here to help you realize this is part of the mind-control programing issued by aliens. Watch "Alien Interview" in my favorites. I state the truth but it's you've job to comprehend it. Look within yourself!
compassion4truth 1 month ago
@compassion4truth "Programming, and programmed", double m's, bro.
juanjoseantoniopedro 3 days ago
@theraVen27 Why do you spell everything out, except for "ur"? Seriously, what is that?
juanjoseantoniopedro 3 days ago
@MarkyTheMormon in point of fact it does make you a hypocrite. i was born & raised in the mormon church, & was told repeatedly that i should do my utmost to associate my self with non-mormons as little as absolutely as possable, as i would run the risk of having my faith compromized. now granted maybe you didnt get the same warning as i did, but that just makes the church as a whole hypocriticle, as they are supposed to be teaching the same thing at the same time in each church world wide.
wraithwind 1 month ago
@wraithwind This is nonsense! One of the three main missions of the church is missionary work. We engage friends and strangers everywhere in all walks of life and all philosophies. You may have been instructed to choose friends wisely, but that is just common sense. There is not one thread of evidence that any church program, policy, or publication teaches Latter-day Saints to blatantly avoid non-Mormons.
MarkyTheMormon 1 month ago
@MarkyTheMormon first of all, i dont believe in common sense, if it were common, everyone would have it. second, to the best of my knowledge, you are quite correct, it isnt present in any program, police, or publication. not today any way. but that doesnt meant that it isnt present in the members them selves. that is what i mean by saying the church as a whole is hypocriticle. if they were all taught the same thing, they should all believe the same thing. either the teaching is true, or it isnt.
wraithwind 1 month ago 2
@wraithwind I perceive there is a humility and gentleness about your personality. This is refreshing. Too many people disagree with hostility and rudeness in Youtube posts. With no offense intended whatsoever, I detect a certain spark that burns in you. Stay close to those who love you!
MarkyTheMormon 1 month ago
@MarkyTheMormon lol, that should be POLICY, not POLICE lmao
wraithwind 1 month ago
@wraithwind "Possible", "compromised", "hypocritical", you're welcome.
juanjoseantoniopedro 3 days ago
you should attend a good christian church. I hope you keep god in your life. I wasn't good enough to be mormon. I drink coffee. Now i'm a bible christian, not a mormon christian. Trust me they are very different.
ugmayor 3 months ago
@ugmayor I'm not a christian and I never will be. If being one is fine for you then that's fine for you. I'm still walking my spiritual path.
MistressInked 3 months ago
great vid!!
timwhite2005 4 months ago 3
@timwhite2005 Thank you!!!
MistressInked 2 months ago
guayacan07 4 months ago
I'm still friends with a few MORmONS? It is just really hard to see what you meant by stating that you're talking about the church/religion and not the individual members, or morons as you like to say in every other sentence. I hope your friends don't know that you refer to them as morons, I guess they look past that. Fighting hate with hate usually doens't help the situation.
ChadBav 4 months ago 8
@ChadBav I hate no one dear. Religion/cults and people are 2 different things.
MistressInked 4 months ago
@MistressInked EVERY religion claims to be the only true one.Jesus said 'many' would claim to have served him and he would say, "Get away from me you workers of lawlessness"=Matthew 7:21-23. There is a WAY the early disciples and apostles taught.This is the WAY that Jesus started. They went house to house, preaching that God's Kingdom is coming.There is ONE faith that is following the early disciples=Matthew 4:17,5:5, chapter 10, 24:14,28:19,20,Acts 1:8,5:42,20:20.They preach God's name=Jehovah
datkjmk 4 months ago
@datkjmk mine doesnt claim to be the only true one. mine says that there are MANY paths to truth. you should find your own based on what feels right to you, not because someone else says its the right one, or the only one, or that something terible will hapen if you dont follow it. that is a path based on fear, not love.
wraithwind 1 month ago
Someones going to hell
danthedark96 4 months ago
@danthedark96 JAMES 4:11-12. Brothers, do not slander one another. Anyone who speaks against his brother or judges him speaks against the law and judges it. When you judge the law, you are not keeping it, but sitting in judgment on it. There is only one Lawgiver and Judge, the who is able to save and destroy. But you--who are you to judge your neighbor?
TheReturnoftheSaints 4 months ago
@danthedark96 <<------<<< Someone's an id10t
MistressInked 4 months ago
@MistressInked Ok have fun with that
danthedark96 4 months ago
Lets say that I drank Coca Cola for a long time, but then one day I tried pepsi and I really liked it. Should I then go out and begin preaching about the evils of Coca Cola?
myway43 5 months ago 2
@myway43 That is such a stupid analogy!! It doesn't even fit!! Try this on for size!! The Kid's movie "Tangled". A child is raised 2 believe the world outside is evil & bad. Danger lurks around every corner. U r safe inside the castle. Suddenly u r outside & u discover u have been lied 2 all ur life!! The world outside the castle is a wonderful, beautiful, exciting place & the ppl in it r amazing wonderful ppl!! U would have never known about any of it, had u stayed INSIDE the castle(cult)!!
MistressInked 5 months ago
If you do not believe in the Church then fine, but why do you now feel obligated to refer to the Church as a cult? It was apparently fine to you at one time. But now since you decide to leave the Church you decide to brand it as a cult? This Church has been the most magnificent to me.
myway43 5 months ago 4
@myway43 I refer to it as a cult because it IS a cult!!! When you are inside, you don't know or realize the danger you are in. As with ALL cults, MORmONISM is very dangerous. It is full of hate, bigotry and oppression. Women are little more than 2nd class citizens.
MistressInked 5 months ago
@MistressInked You believe the church is dangerous? What are they gonna do, give you a bad look? Yes, I am a member, but don't think I am oblivious to the outside, i'm not from Provo! Im from Denver, anyway last night I was at the bar and I had a drink, or several. Will I go to church sunday? Yes, I love the people and I know that the Church is true. Do I think the church is wrong about it's position on drinking? No, they are completely correct, but I have my agency and I can do what I want.
ChadBav 4 months ago
@ChadBav Sweetie, in a way, they do indeed force you. Its called passive aggression and peer pressure. Single women are told to not even consider marrying a man unless they have served a mission. MORmONS teach hate and intolerance. If you don't fit into their mold of the perfect MORmON, you're pretty much screwed.
MistressInked 4 months ago
@MistressInked Passive aggression and peer pressure can be found in any social structure. Does that mean we shouldn't go to school? My girlfriend could care less if I served a mission. I try not to teach hate and intolerance and most of my friends in the church don't either. And who is 'they' that you are talking about, that if I don't fit in their mold? Some judgmental jerks in the church? sure they exist. But it's not everyone and it's not the members I send time with.
ChadBav 4 months ago
@ChadBav One thing I need to make clear is that I'm talking about the religion itself not individual members. I'm actually still friends with a few MORmONS. The hate and intolerance I speak of is against gays and the MORmON hierarchy's treatment of them. Its good to hear that you yourself do not hate.
MistressInked 4 months ago
@MistressInked The worst thing that could happen is someone will judge me and think that I am a bad person, but that can happen anywhere! They don't force people to be a certain way, they just teach good morals. I am sorry if your parents are crazy, mine would love me no matter what happens, or what I do, and yes they are members as well. I am not a perfect person, but I know that God loves me and that this is His church.
ChadBav 4 months ago
@ChadBav Ya know whats funny is that you never knew my parents and yet you are judging them. Drinking alcohol is what normal ppl do dear.
MistressInked 4 months ago
@MistressInked Yeah, I guess that makes me normal and a mormon :) Oh and you are right, sorry about the parents comment, I got ahead of myself and assumed that that was one of your reasonings because of a crazy upbringing where you felt trapped (like what you wrote about Tangled) my bad! My point is I love the church but also enjoy other aspects of life, and the church has only been a benefit to me.
ChadBav 4 months ago
@ChadBav You are free to live your life as you please sweetie. One thing I'd like for you to do is look into the REAL history of ur so-called religion. Joe Smith lied, he is a sexual deviant and a con-artist. Please read the book: One Nation Under Gods: A History of the Mormon Church written by Richard Abanes. He shows court documents stating the real reputation of Joe Smith.
MistressInked 4 months ago
@strikeofthephantom If I'm not mistaken, weren't there two missionaries who took pictures of themselves in less than flattering poses at the Mother Cabrini shine in Colorado? I saw the pictrues, but can't remember where it happened.
moparmonster1965 5 months ago
Unlike the moron god, the God of the bible never endorsed polygamy. It was something done in the flesh of men. It always produced heartache and disaster. Joe smith said it was the new and everlasting covenant and if you do not abide in it you WILL be damned. If you are not a polygamous mormon you are damned as this was an EVERLASTING covenant. The weak sissy mormon god reversed his decree when Wash DC said give it up or we will confiscate your land an kick your butts to mexico.Can this god save
blutowpi 5 months ago
Im so glad I attended seminaries and Institutes to know MORE of whats below the versus of each Holy writings..But i can relate to the on and off of your family in the church..Mormons are not perfect they gossip too..they have weaknesses like any other Human.That`s why for me its not the other people will judge you on the last days..so do your work and be humble and be forgiving, understanding,,,for in the last days its the Lord who will judge us.
Yuriyurisa0924 5 months ago
@Yuriyurisa0924 And don't forget following a false gospel as well.
moparmonster1965 5 months ago
All This Sounds Like Your Blaming All Of Your Personal Problems Onto A Religion Instead Of Taking Action On Your Own Part.. :/ .. Idk... Everyone I Hear That Leaves It's Personal Issues That They Don't Wanna Deal With.. I Can't understad Why That Is So. Do You Know Why Polygamy Was First Instilled??
Furyan215 5 months ago
@Furyan215 Little boy, little boy... Grow up and learn about life. I left the MORmON cult because I learned about its TRUE history. I learned that Joe Smith was a fraud, a con man, and a sexual deviant. Polygamy started with JS NOT BY!! Just because it has COJCOLDS stamped on it doesn't mean that its the truth kiddo!! WAKE UP!!!
MistressInked 5 months ago
@MistressInked Fraud? Con Man? Deviant? Say His Crimes Exactly I Am Curious... Just Because I Am Young Doesn't Mean Ignorance.. lol
Furyan215 5 months ago
@Furyan215 Yah I left the MORmON church over personal problems, the personal problem that Gordon Hinckley had with LYING all the time & Joseph Smith's personal problem with LYING , RAPING, & THIEVING!
jeekbanju 5 months ago
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moparmonster1965 5 months ago
@Furyan215 Are you talking about when the church leadership was first practiced polygamy or when D&C 132 was first published. There's a big difference.
moparmonster1965 5 months ago
Mistressorangatits, Though I have no idea who you are, I'm sure you grew up a jackmormon and maybe even married some idiot in the temple. But we both know you never served an LDS mission let alone ever gained a testimony! So I was just wondering, why lie to people? Oh let me guess "It's ok to lie if it's to bring folks to the real Jayzus!" It's clear you have a lot of anger towards the church. But hey sis, you're out now! let it go! Gotta say I'm a bit afraid for ya.. (Judgement day) good luck!
rosarae 6 months ago
@rosarae Seriously, How retarded are you? 1st you insult me, then call me a liar. Yet, in your 1st sentence you admit you don't know me. Unfortunately, I did serve a MORmON mission. New Mexico in the mid 80's to be exact. If I never had a testimony, I would have left YEARS ago. I'm not lying to anyone, I'm telling the 100% truth. One more thing......I'M NOT A CHRISTIAN!!!
MistressInked 5 months ago
@MistressInked Proof that you are a liar is that the Mormon chur..... um Mormon cult is AGAINST poligamy!! So get your facts straight before you spew anymore bullshit. In otherwords, Watch Big Love a little closer!
rosarae 5 months ago
@rosarae I've never seen a single episode of Big Love. I really don't watch that much TV. Besides watching TV would distract me from making these very important videos!! In the chatroom, we were talking about how it was going to be practiced again.
MistressInked 5 months ago
@rosarae mistressinked is telling the truth polygamy is a principle and practice in mormonism still to this day let me show you from lds cult jod,
"The only men who become Gods, even the Sons of God, are those who enter into polygamy."
(Brigham Young, Journal of Discourses, 11:269) ,you need to learn what the mormon cult teach and practice before you call someone a liar.
oceantalk1 5 months ago
@oceantalk1 Look it's really simple. Brigham Young was speaking about that time, when it was called of the early Mormons to take on polygamy. (Just as it was in the bible) Secondly, The Journal of Discourses is not LDS doctrine! Brigham and yes, even Joseph Smith has probably said alot of fucked up things. They are only mortal, sinful men just like you and me.
rosarae 5 months ago
@rosarae stop lying God never commanded polygamy in the bible learn something now........Since God only allows for polygamy, and does not command it, a law prohibiting polygamy should be upheld.
joseph smith was just full of lust and sexual desires for other men wives and for young under age girls plain and simple.
oceantalk1 5 months ago
@oceantalk1 You're right! All us mormons believe that a law against polygamy should be upheld. And it is a fact that the early mormons would not have flourished like they did without polygamy. So maybe God knew what he was doing. SEXUAL DESIRES??!! are you kidding me? have you seen photos of those women? And as far as polygamy not being biblical, I think you should read it again a little more closely. Shit, I keep forgetting you are not a christian. That must be Barry Gibb in your profile pic.
rosarae 5 months ago
@rosarae I'm a born again christian that is saved by grace,I have been redeemed by the precious blood of the lamb,that has washed all my sins away,all my faith and trust is in the biblical Jesus Christ,I'm on my way to heaven. I'm a christian inside and out that is why I obey the biblical Jesus Christ. I have been reborn spiritually john 3:3 I belong to the biblical Jesus Christ,this is my christian testimony.................
oceantalk1 5 months ago
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oceantalk1 5 months ago
@oceantalk1 I'm getting kind of bored talking to you but if you want to debate me, Mormons vs Bornagain fanaticism, then bring it on sister! Warning however, I will clean your clock and have you seriously doubting what you now believe. Are you sure you want to do this?????????
rosarae 5 months ago
@rosarae I didn't think so.
rosarae 5 months ago
@rosarae Is that right? Why, then, was the church leadership still practicing polygamy after the manifesto of 1890? And don't forget that D&C 132:4 says that polygamy is a 'new and everlasting covenant,' which translates, somehow, to 14 years.
moparmonster1965 5 months ago
@rosarae Keep in mind that the JOD considers itself to be part of the standard works of the church.
moparmonster1965 5 months ago
@moparmonster1965 1. Some members continued the practice of polygamy after the church banned it. Those members were most likely excommunicated. 2. We believe that marriages sealed in the temple can be eternal, therefore "everlasting". 3. The JOD are teachings, sermons etc. from the past to assist with understanding of church doctrine just as is attending church or fellowship in the present day. So please do not try to deceive people, the JOD is NOT church doctrine!!
rosarae 5 months ago
I know you don't consider it doctrine, but you might want to have a look at the prefaces to books four and eight say otherwise.
moparmonster1965 5 months ago
@moparmonster1965 I remember being where you are now, trying to disprove the LDS church. It backfired on me! OK, Joseph F Smith sr.: He married his 5th and last wife 6 yrs before the 1890 manifesto. He wrote the 2nd manifesto as pres. in 1905 and ordered any member that takes part in any NEW plural marriages was to be excommunicated. He plead guilty to the gov. for cohab. with 4 women in addition to his 1 legal wife and gladly paid the $300 fine.
rosarae 5 months ago
We also still have the fact that the church was practicing polygamy before D&C 132 was added in 1876, and the old section 101 was very clear that the church was not practicing it. At what point does the church gain the ability to lie and publicly deceive while doing the exact opposite of their own scriptures?
Backfired? Did you mean back slide? There's nothing but fuzzy feelings and false hope to support Mormonism. Sorry.
moparmonster1965 5 months ago
@moparmonster1965 In both manifesto's, Snow and Smith both made it clear they would not ask any member to put out any plural wives that were married prior to or their children (Let no man tear asunder). Although a few members began living with 1 wife, most, including Smith did not. This was breaking a federal law in which Smith did plea guilty to just as I stated earlier. Smith may of had 6 wives I only know of 5, so what! He was last married in 1884, 6 yrs. before the manifesto.
rosarae 5 months ago
But yes, Smith had five wives, and whether he actually lived with them or not isn't the point; that he fathered 11 children after the Manifesto within the confines of polygamy is.
moparmonster1965 5 months ago
@moparmonster1965 Dear God are you serious? For the last time (I hope) Yes they continued polygamy in the fact that they still lived with the wives they already had! Would you throw your spouse out of the house along with your children? I hope you wouldn't. They never denied this. The manifesto states that they would cease any FURTHER marriages from then on which they did obey! Those who did not were excommunicated! Finally JFS did not father 11 kids after 1876. THAT IS A LIE! lol
rosarae 5 months ago
@moparmonster1965 Dear God are you serious? For the last time (I hope) Yes they continued polygamy in the fact that they still lived with the wives they already had! Would you throw your spouse out of the house along with your children? I hope you wouldn't. They never denied this. The manifesto states that they would cease any FURTHER marriages from then on which they did obey! Those who did not were excommunicated! Finally JFS did not father 11 kids after 1876. THAT IS A LIE! lol
rosarae 5 months ago
@rosarae Okay, excellent. I touched on this in a previosu response so just ignore it. We agree that Smith fathered 11 children after 1890, and that he and other church leadership were actively engaged in polygamy before the church permitted it.
Yes, that's what the Manifesto states, but that's not what the legislation states. Not only that, but the church continued to engage new polygamous marriages by going to Mexico or doing so in a boat not on US soil.
moparmonster1965 5 months ago
@moparmonster1965 I thought the number was 2 or 3 but it could have been 11 or even a bit more. I must ask however what is your point? I did hear that some Mormons went to mexico to take more plural wives but I don't know if thats true. Regardless, the church leaders were against this so those people were probably excommunicated. JFS was strongly against continuing polygamy and made that very clear. So what on this matter shows that the LDS church is wrong? Keeping their wives is morally right!
rosarae 5 months ago
@moparmonster1965 Also you stated that JFS married all his wives before D & C 132? He was 5 yrs. old when that revelation was recorded so how do you figure he married all his wives before then? lol
rosarae 5 months ago
@rosarae Hang on... D&C 132 was first printed in 1876, making Smith 38 at the time, as he was born in 1838. His marriages were to Julina Lambson in 1866, to Sarah Ellen Richards in 1868, to Edna Lambson in 1871, to Alice Ann Kimball in 1883, and to Mary Taylor Schwartz in 1884.
That means that he took three of his wives while the church was still claiming that it wasn't practicing polygamy in its own doctrine.
I said all and I should've said three, sorry.
moparmonster1965 5 months ago
@moparmonster1965 Sorry, but section 132 was recorded in 1943. One year before he was murdered.lol And what do you mean by change of tone? For your info. I am not an active mormon. Meaning I dont go to church or live the life. I smoke, party, sin and jerk-off probably way too often! lol One thing I do know is that the LDS church is true!
rosarae 5 months ago
And still, even when it was as-yet unpublished, church leadership were taking wives when their own doctrine said exactly the opposite. That's my point here.
We're all sinners and if you can admit that, fair enough. I have a trophy chest full of them myself, but I just want to show you that the church has been less-than-honest about this matter, polygamy. God gave us common sense for a reason and oftentimes, the easy answer is the correct one.
moparmonster1965 5 months ago
@rosarae Yes, you're right; it was recorded on July 12, 1843. Emma caught Joseph with another woman and he was apparently afraid to talk to her about it so he he had Hyrum take down the 'revelation' and present it to her (Hyrum also may have volunteered).
But again, it wasn't published until 1876 so the lay congregation probably didn't know the extent of it, though I believe they knew something was going on.
moparmonster1965 5 months ago
@moparmonster1965 So ole Joe Smith was getting down and dirty with the 12yo sitter, Emma walks in on them, Joe has to fake a revelation with his bro! I get it. Where did you read this? The Journal of discourses? Look you are obviously more knowledgeable than I on this subject, but I do know the words of sec.132 was known by the faithful back then. The D&C was changed a few times, but only to clarify church doctrine, not to cover shit up. I am impressed though. Keep it up you will 1 of us! LOL
rosarae 5 months ago
Yes, I'm very knowledgeable on this stuff, but I don't want to beat you over the head with it. I want to show you that there's more to the story than what the church tells its members. There are a lot of things that have been deliberately omitted from what the church teaches, and that's the reason that modern members often don't know much of its history.
No chance of me ever being a member; I'm cult-proof.
moparmonster1965 5 months ago
I don't use the JOD that much, but I now know why the church is terrified of what it contains. This information is found in History of the Church (HOTC) vol. 5, pp 500-501, and it clearly says that the revelation was received on July 12th, 1843. Did you catch that? It was received that day, not recorded the way D&C claims. That makes a big difference, doesn't it?
moparmonster1965 5 months ago
Putting the revelation to paper in 1843 was probably more for damage control than anything else; Smith knew he was in deep trouble with Emma, but it, like all of his other revelations, was fraudulent.
moparmonster1965 5 months ago
@rosarae That about sizes it up. Smith became a polygamist somewhere between 1831 and 1833, and the church flat-out lied about it for years to both the public and the lay congregation, even while the leaders actively practiced it. They did so through their official doctrine and their other publications, like Deseret News and Times and Seasons.
moparmonster1965 5 months ago
@moparmonster1965 Hey, Oliver Stone! lol Look, According to the LDS church JS was not a polygamist. Whether he was or not could not have been hidden. So no reason to cover anything up. You are somewhat correct that all members could not practice it. I believe they were called upon. probably a family that could support such a task. As far as what you said about revelation, There is no rules when or how God talks to a prophet or person. That is absolutely silly.
rosarae 5 months ago
My wife's family were polygamist Mormons years ago and I find that three of her ancestors had two, three, and four wives respectively. Please tell me how poor simpleton Mick coal miners were so special to be called forth to engage in polygamy.
moparmonster1965 5 months ago
Smith's actions couldn't have been hidden? Is that right? You're aware that he was using peep stones in his hat the same way he 'translated' the BOM years before any mention of angels and gold plates, right? Most of Smith's history has been altered or fabricated over the years to make it look cohesive. For example, there are no fewer than 10 different accounts of the Furst Vision. Did you know that?
moparmonster1965 5 months ago
Further, we find that the LDS publication, Millenial Star, stated: "The Latter-Day Saints, fromthe rise of the church in 1830 till the year 1843, had no authority to marry any more than one wife each. To have done otherwise would have been a great transgression." (vol 19, p 475)
moparmonster1965 5 months ago
@rosarae According to Lorenzo Snow, he was exactly that, testifying that anyone living in plural marriage prior to the time of the revelation was living in adultery under both the laws of the church and the state. (Temple Lot Case, p 320)
moparmonster1965 5 months ago
@moparmonster1965 As I said earlier, you're getting to much of your info from anti-mormon lit. Here is something else for you to ponder on. From the beginning of the LDS church, The number of general authorities who left the church can be counted probably on 1 hand? and of those who did, still witness that JS was a prophet of God and the book of Mormon is true. Did you also know that all the apostles testimonies are more than faith based? How come no one that gets to that point never calls BS?
rosarae 5 months ago
And then there's Martin Harris who changed religions constantly, being a member of some seven different faiths over the years. The early church leadership isn't as lilly-white as you might think, but you won't find out much about that from the church itself.
I would guess that the apostle's testimonies are probably cash-based since we know that the church is incredibly wealthy and not opposed to paying its clergy. I would guess they can be bought and sold for enough money.
moparmonster1965 5 months ago
@moparmonster1965 It's the only christian sect I know of that actually don't pay its clergy
rosarae 5 months ago
@rosarae The only places I can find that say church workers should not be paid are 2 Nephi 26:31 and Mosiah 27:5.
D&C, however, paints a much different picture: 24:18-19, 42:70-73, 51:13-14, 75:24, 84:78-79, 86-89, and 119:1-2 all show that it's okay for people to be paid for church activity.
Which do you think the church leadership follows?
moparmonster1965 5 months ago
@moparmonster1965 Tell me which church member gets paid for clergy.
rosarae 5 months ago
@rosarae I only wish I had that information. I'm simply showing you that there's a lot more in the church's doctrine supporting pay for the members than not. The amount of money the church likely takes in per year is staggering, even if faithful members, all 13 million of them, only pay 5%. That's not including members who are wealthy, like Stephanie Meyer or Mitt Romney, who are well and above better off financially than the rest.
moparmonster1965 5 months ago
@moparmonster1965The Church has many on it's payroll, but it's clergy is 100% voluntary as far as I know. That must sting don't it? I mean the thousands who Swindle, Cheat, Lie, Fornicate, Steal and according to you, Murder all to just spread the holy word of God and help others in need. "Ye shall know them by their fruits". The LDS fruits are, Promoting strong moral families, obeying the commandments, helping ALL people in need and the strongest and most dedicated missionary program on earth!
rosarae 5 months ago
If you mean possible damnation for following a false gospel, yes, you're right, we shall know them as such. But I understand what you meant, and it shows that the church places an over-emphasis on works in place of grace.
Just because Mormons have strong morals doesn't make them correct any more than it makes my Muslim neighbor correct, does it?
moparmonster1965 5 months ago
Just because I'm against Mormonism doesn't mean I give anyone a pass for the same thing. Like I told you, I grew up Catholic and you have no idea how deep that rabbit hold goes, and how the church has misused and abused its power, and I'm certainly not excusing them.
moparmonster1965 5 months ago
@moparmonster1965 Ouch! Not really anything you can say about that statement now is there! But still you bear FALSE witness against the church. The reason the church is so successful is because it is a 100% lay ministry, meaning NO CORRUPTION.
rosarae 5 months ago
@rosarae So, in comparing one to the other, which one weighs more? How is applying logic bearing "false witness?" If anything, I'm giving your church the benefit of the doubt because I'm using the standards of Orson Pratt for evaluating the church's authenticity: "...convince us of our errors of doctrine, if we have any, by reason, by locial arguments, or by the word of God..." (The Seer, Jan 1853)
moparmonster1965 5 months ago
@moparmonster1965 Excuse me, but we haven't even touched on doctrine yet. And it is only clear that YOU have established there is multiple Gods i.e. Mormon God, Catholic God, Protestant God etc. And although there were 3 witnesses initially, there were a number of people who seen them and not a single soul ever denied it. even to their death. Even the apostates never denied it though it would have benefited them greatly. No they eventually made their war back and was re baptized into the church!
rosarae 5 months ago
@rosarae We actually did touch on doctrine and you haven't been able to explain the reason that the prophet isn't really required to follow it. No, I established no such thing. There is one God and one God only (even the BOM says so), but I use the term "Mormon god" or "Mormon jesus" to separate Mormon theology or concept as a contrast against Christian theology or concept.
We've touched on the Three, but we can continue if you like, but you're not gonna like all of it.
moparmonster1965 5 months ago
Respond to this video... And finally, you have no evidence for the LDS church paying their clergy because they simply don't. All the evidence you have showed me from the beginning are hearsay, Flat out lies or misinterpretation. OUCH this has to hurt. lol
rosarae 5 months ago
@rosarae I already said that, didn't I?
Hearsay? I think you need to be able to add one and one together and get two before you call something hearsay. I proved you were mistaken about Joseph F. Smith's polygamy on all points as well as other problems with polygamy.
Since you were wrong about those, what else might you be wrong about? And if lying and taking others' wives as your own means 'no corruption' to you, your standards are appallingly low.
moparmonster1965 5 months ago
@rosarae I found it: "Because the Church has no professional clergy, it is administered at every level through LAY PARTICIPATION AND LEADERSHIP, and officials other than the General Authorities contribute their time and talents without remuneration. ...Because the General Authorities are obliged to leave their regular employment for full-time Church service, they receive a modest living allowance provided from income on Church investments." (Encyclopedia of Mormonism, p. 510)
moparmonster1965 5 months ago
@moparmonster1965 Look, I have responded to every single Item you have throw out here. This is a list of what we have learned. Mormons practiced polygamy. They stopped any further plural marriages after 1890. They continued to live with their plural wives. They broke US laws. Emma catching joe with another woman is HEARSAY and ridiculous. I did know that the Gen. Auths. Got an allowance and the Pres. has an apartment paid by the church.
rosarae 5 months ago
@moparmonster1965 All witnesses stood by their story. I have been wrong on some things and admitted when I was. You have been wrong repeatedly and have never admitted it. From all that we have discussed, you have shown me absolutely nothing to make me think that the LDS has lied or covered up anything let alone make me feel that the church is false. I also have been a trooper and have only been on the defense this hole time. I haven't even thrown a punch yet! And I'm kicking your ass! lol!
rosarae 5 months ago
And third, if you believe one thing he said, why not another? In his pamphlet, "An Address to All Believers in Christ," he affirmed his witnessing the plates, but also stated that not only was Smith a fallen prophet as of about 1838, but that he claimed that God told him to leave the church altogether.
He flip-flopped his position and this makes him unreliable as a 'Witness.'
moparmonster1965 5 months ago
After Smith's murder, Whitmer again became involved with the church, hoping that his ordination as Smith's successor on July 7, 1834 would carry some weight. He organized a second "Church of Christ," as the LDS were known in the beginning, in 1876.
moparmonster1965 5 months ago
The bank itself was illegal because the US wasn't issuing charters at that time, and this didn't endear him to Smith. Whitmer was subsequently threatened with death if he didn't leave Caldwell County, Missouri. He did and then sued the church, which played into the 1838 Mormon War, ultimately resulting in all of the Mormons being expelled from Missouri in 1839.
moparmonster1965 5 months ago
@rosarae First, if that's your only basis for accepting their testimony, your standard of proof is very low.
Second, this doesn't take into account the fact that Whitmer spoke out against the Kirtland bank scam that Smith said would gain the church all the money it needed to pay its debts, which never came to pass.
moparmonster1965 5 months ago
Kicking my ass? I must've missed that part. But yes, you're right, you've been in the defensive the entire time because your version of the church is refuted by the facts about it. You simply retreat to the "I know the church is true, no matter what!" defense in spite of you admitting that you drink, party, and jerk off too much. If the church were really true, you'd be a faithful member, not a Jack Mormon so there's more to your story that what you've told me so far.
moparmonster1965 5 months ago
Kicking my ass? I must've missed that part. But yes, you've been on the defensive because when your concept of Mormonism is challenged by actual facts, you retreat to the "I know the church is true, no matter what!" defense in spite of the fact that you admit that you party, drink, and jerk off too much. If the church were really true, you'd be a faithful member, not a jack Mormon, so there's more to your story than what you're telling me, I think.
moparmonster1965 5 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
Kicking my ass? I must've missed that part. But yes, you've been on the defensive because when your concept of Mormonism is challenged by actual facts, you retreat to the "I know the church is true, no matter what!" defense in spite of the fact that you admit that you party, drink, and jerk off too much. If the church were really true, you'd be a faithful member, not a jack Mormon, so there's more to your story than what you're telling me, I think.
moparmonster1965 5 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
Kicking my ass? I must've missed that part. But yes, you've been on the defensive because when your concept of Mormonism is challenged by actual facts, you retreat to the "I know the church is true, no matter what!" defense in spite of the fact that you admit that you party, drink, and jerk off too much. If the church were really true, you'd be a faithful member, not a jack Mormon, so there's more to your story than what you're telling me, I think.
moparmonster1965 5 months ago
@rosarae You've admitted no such thing; when proven wrong, you said nothing, and quietly moved on to the next point. You, however, have proven me wrong at no time and I thus had nothing to admit.
If you don't accept the fact that the church, in its official doctrine, claimed that it wasn't practicing polygamy when it clearly was on two occasions as being dishonest, I don't know what to tell you. I also can't make you accept the fact that the sky is blue, but if you don't, that's up to you.
moparmonster1965 5 months ago