The Spirit is distinguished from the “LORD” (Num. 27:18) and from “God” (Ps. 1:10-12). God the Son is distinguished from God the Father (Ps. 45:6-7; Heb. 1:8-9)
@MrJgkeeling Since you mentioned Numbers, Read chapter13:23. If you say that it means bunch of grapes then why don't you say bunch of gods why stick to number 3?
Deuteronomy 17:6 talks about if there is echad/one witness then there is no death sentence but it has to be two.
Ecclesiastes 4:8 talks about echad without companion, has no son or brother?
One can mean one or many. In auctions there are lots, one lot could have several items or just ONE.
The word "Elohim" and the pronoun “us” are plural forms, definitely referring in the Hebrew language to more than two. In Isa. 48:16 and 61:1, the Son is speaking while making reference to the Father and the Holy Spirit. Compare Isa. 61:1 to Lk. 4:14-19 to see that it is the Son speaking. In the OT, “LORD” is distinguished from “Lord” (Gen. 19:24; Hos. 1:4). The LORD has a Son (Ps. 2:7, 12; Pr. 30:2-4).
In matthew 14.17 does it mentions 2 fish or 2 fishes?
How many sheep did jman mean 1 or 2 or 3. Read john 21:16. How many sheep does one bring for a sacrifice for the family? Whole flock? Stop playing with Hebrew words. Stop trying to make something out of nothing.
Chayim is plural too to the dummies but does it mean lives or life? In Jewish toasting one says L'Chayim it means to life not Lives.
There is one (Echad means united) God (Deut. 6:4; 1 Cor. 8:4; Gal. 3:20; 1 Tim. 2:5), consisting of three Persons (Gen. 1:1, 26; 3:22; 11:7; Isa. 6:8, 48:16, 61:1; Matt. 3:16-17, 28:19; 2 Cori. 13:14). In Gen. 1:1, the Hebrew plural noun "Elohim" is used. In Gen. 1:26, 3:22, 11:7 and Isa. 6:8, the plural pronoun for “us” is used.
@IamaZionistGoy If God is One; singular and not plural, why does He share His power through the Angel of the LORD? The Rabbi's call Him Metatron, He shares God's authority, speaks as God, and is called God many times. Look also at Isaiah 9:6 (Judges 13:18), Micah 5:2, Daniel 9:26, Psalm 110:1 Who is David speaking of? Who are the WE in Genesis and Isaiah that God speaks as? Are we made from angels, or God alone?
@MrJgkeeling First the capitalization of the Bible was xtians doing. Second in the translation they used lord. Have you notice in one LORD they capitalized the whole word and in the other just the first letter of the word Lord. There goes your theory that jman is equal to your god. If jamn was same as his god then both LORDS should be identical. This Psalm is written by David to be read by the Cohen about his conversation with the Creator. The Jews share Israel with the Creator are NOT equal.
Come ye near unto me, hear ye this; I have not spoken in secret from the beginning; from the time that it was, there am I: and now the Lord God, and his Spirit, hath sent me. Thus saith the Lord, thy Redeemer, the Holy One of Israel; I am the Lord thy God which teacheth thee to profit, which leadeth thee by the way that thou shouldest go.
It's interesting watching two people debate something this meaningless when neither side has any basis at all for their position. "I'm right." - "No, actually you're wrong because I'm right." - "But my book says I'm right, which means you are wrong." - "Well, my book says..."
It is interesting to watch people of other faiths support their monotheistic view with surety and clarity while their counterparts clearly struggle to support same.
According to Dr. Craig if you approach trinity from the writing of old testament one wouldn’t come to believe there’s a trinity, only if you approach it in the new testament, so it depends on which scripture you look at. That admission is basically saying that the bible (old and new testament) is not in agreement regarding the trinity doctrine.
What a crock of shit!The trinity of stupidity i see are these grown-up morons(Strobel,Craig and that rabbi).Debating nothing but mythology(somewhat then reasonable as a referential starting point to help stablish some ground to man's first critical exploring perceptions of reality albeit,was intuition-based only)born of the mind and carried out by an inmature intellectuality that at most,it should be now view,as nothing more than an understood sentiment for man's modest mind expansion beginning.
To Rabbi Tovia: Doesn't the old testament as we called it, that GOD would make a new covenant. Here's the text This is the covenant I will make with the house of Israel after that time, declares the Lord. I will put my laws in their minds and write them on their hearts. I will be their God, and they will be my people. That is what we Christians experience at the new birth as we called it!
@TheElectricpablo "I will put my laws in their minds and write them on their hearts."
Certainly this has never happened, as you see there are many atheists and many other types of people. The New Covenant that Jeremiah is talking about is not an entirely new text. It's the same Torah but the laws will be inscribed in everyone's heart, this is contrary to the new testament's belief that the law was fulfilled.
@TheElectricpablo Christians today don't follow the laws. They don't keep kosher, keep Shabbat, celebrate the holidays and follow it's commandments. This is all proof that what was spoken by Jeremiah has not been fulfilled.
What about the Holy Spirit of GOD? You CANNOT deny it! And what about your MESSIAH? GOD is all of them we are not saying that we believe in 3 gods! Jews cannot understand it!
It is absolute craziness.....The Rabbi refuses to recognize Christ as the Messiah and the Trinitarian refuses to believe that Jesus was the Human Messiah that was foretold in the Hebrew Scriptures. Both of them miss the simplicity and peace of the truth.
I don't see what's so hard to understand. The catholic church made up the trinity. Historically this is proven. Yahshua did not pray to himself. The Holy Spirit is not a person this is absurd. The Hebrew says the Ruach meaning the breath or wind of God. Like I said, the catholic church made the trinity up. Can't argue with history. Further more, the trinity is something that cannot be read in the scripture. It is taught. Blame the catholic church for the trinity.
I find it amazing the Rabbi sited Num23:19 as actually meaning God isn't a man. He uses the same out of context logic Muslims try. The verse, in context, obviously means God is not a liar like men. Also, I can just quote Ex15:3:"The LORD is a man of war: the LORD is his name." By the Rabbi's logic, Moses contradicted himself.
@SuperDonster Be honest here. He's been reading the original, unbutchered texts and you have not. His books haven't been modified repeatedly and are closest to their original form.
@gvman3670 "... and you have not..." #1)You don't know what I've been doing because you don't know me. #2) I quoted a scripture from the Torah("his" book); which is unchanged for 3,500yrs #3) I even said "OT"[Old Testament] in my comment; which is the Tanakh (Hebrew Bible); you seemed to have over looked that fact. #4)"his" book happens to be MY book too. And it's not just "his" of mine, it's YHWH's book as a blessing to all mankind; or at least those who pursue him and the truth.
@SuperDonster Your OT is NOT the same as the Tanakh. Especially so if you don't read Hebrew. Translations, transliterations, mistranslations and omitted books. Once again, the OT is NOT the Tanakh.
@gvman3670 you're just a man of strife looking for youtube-comment fights; pretty sad. You haven't said anything that's useful. Go back, read the scriptures I quoted, and compare them to what the Tanakh says. Now, show me the discrepancy. You can't because there is none. I said what the scripture says. Therefor, you got pwnd.
this rabbi is weird looking (hair style / gestures) -- he has a sound point.
the KING of the jews ( christ) was one of the holy prophets. the messiah was far from being a deity - common sense always roles period that's if it's ONLY common sense.
@2:56 - what a canard by Tovia... Nicene Creed is SUBSERVIENT to the Scriptures that means The Scriptures are the base and the support for what Nicene Council says and not the other way around. @3:32 Craig is WRONG there is a PROGRESSIVE revelation of Triune God ALSO in Old Testament. @4:45 another canard by Tovia...Triune God IS NOT a "product of Roman Catholic Church". This just show that Mr.Rabbi have zero knowledge of the early church and when actually Roman Church evolved into existence.
@MilhamaH777 I agree, hints of the Trinity are definitely in the OT. One of my favorites is Gen19:24: "Then the LORD rained upon Sodom and upon Gomorrah brimstone and fire from the LORD out of heaven." Just ask a Jew or a Muslim how did the LORD that was on earth(an angel) rain down brimstone and fire from the LORD in heaven? They have no answer. That's because the SON(pre-incarnate Jesus) is the LORD that was on earth raining fire and brimstone down from the LORD in heaven=the Father
@SuperDonster Indeed and thanks. Also Every time they saw God in OT the saw none else but pre-incarnate Eternal Son otherwise the warning and truth of Exodus 33:20 is a lie... Furthermore the one whom Isiah sees in Glory in Isaiah 6 and elsewhere is Eternal Son, Pre-Incarnate Jesus as Apostle John affirms and teaches about in Gospel of John 12:39-41. Jesus is not other but YHVH as a Second Person of One Triune God along with Father and Spirit. Amen.
Craig is used to arguing for a non-biblical minimal shiny happy god of the gaps for the purpose of debating atheists. He can't stand his ground against other theists because a truthful philosophical "god" cannot be reconciled with the "god" of any theological scripture. This is because there is no god.
@Lizzio1980 there is no JEsus pbuh,the lord god of Israel has nothing to do with adulterers,murderers,pedophiles or idol worshipers.Blasphemy !!!!.Muhammed pbuh the false prophet is just fulfilling Ezekiel 38,39
We live in the Age of the Holy Spirit only those who place their faith in Christ will ever believe in the Trinity. All who deny that Jesus Christ is the YHWH of the OT will never understand the Trinity. Scripture clearly attests to Christ's divinity so he must be God himself! Don't use human logic have faith and the Holy Spirit will make you understand the Trinity.
"The LORD SAID UNTO MY LORD, Sit thou at my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool."
Psalm 110:5 "The Lord at thy right hand shall strike through kings in the day of his wrath
Isaiah 49:6 "....and to restore the preserved of Israel: I will also give you for a light to the Gentiles, that you may be MY SALVATION to the end of the earth."
Psalm 62:2 "HE ONLY is my rock and MY SALVATION; he is my defense; I shall not be greatly moved"
TORAH- Note: the book of Daniel is under Writings in the Jewish Torah
Daniel 7:13 “In my vision at night I looked, and there before me was one like a son of man,[a] coming with the clouds of heaven. He approached the Ancient of Days and was led into his presence."
New testament
Luke 21:27 "At that time they will see the Son of Man coming in a cloud with power and great glory."
"Behold, I am going to SEND MY MESSENGER, and he will clear the way before Me. AND THE LORD, whom you seek, will suddenly come to His temple; and THE MESSENGER of the COVENANT, in whom you delight, behold, HE IS COMING," says the LORD of hosts."
Jeremiah 31:31 “The days are coming,” declares the LORD, “when I will make a NEW COVENANT with the people of Israel and with the people of Judah."
Isaiah 53:6 "All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the LORD HATH LAID ON HIM THE INIQUITY OF US ALL."
Isaiah 53:10 "Yet it pleased the LORD to bruise him; he hath put him to grief: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin, he shall see his seed, he shall prolong his days, and the pleasure of the LORD shall prosper in his hand."
ONLY GOD CAN TAKE AWAY SINS BECAUSE ONLY GOD IS WITHOUT SIN.
"The LORD SAID UNTO MY LORD, Sit thou at my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool."
Psalm 110:5 "The Lord at thy right hand shall strike through kings in the day of his wrath
Isaiah 49:6 "....and to restore the preserved of Israel: I will also give you for a light to the Gentiles, that you may be MY SALVATION to the end of the earth."
Psalm 62:2 "HE ONLY is my rock and MY SALVATION; he is my defense; I shall not be greatly moved"
The Trinity is really a "He are Three" and "They is One" God why is this concept so difficult to understand for all Non trinitarians? In the NT God is especially described as "One What and Three Who's". To understand the Trinity one must not lean on human understanding we must therefore lean and trust in God. No one said that the Trinity can be comprehended by using human logic. But if you don't place your faith in the Trinity you will burn in Hell!
cont. Jesus is the Great God and Saviour=Jesus is YHWH. Jesus is eternal like the Father=The Trinity. The Trinity is One Being with three co-eternal co-equal personalities. Not 3 Gods (Tritheism) nor is he One God with three faces(Modalism). Nor is God just One person(Unitarianism). The OT and the NT clearly teaches the doctrine of the Trinity. Trust not your own heart!
"Elohim" Plural=Compound Unity,God said Let "us" make man not let "me" make man=The Trinity,The Three Angels and Abraham=The Triune Godhead.
YHWH=I Am + Jesus=I Am, Jesus is YHWH
Baptize in The "Name" not names of Father,Son,Holy Spirit=Compound Unity=The Trinity. The Logos was "in the beginning"Logos is Eternal and God, Holy Spirit=The Helper has personality =Member of The Trinity. "My Lord and My God" Jesus is called Lord and God in the NT just like YHWH who is called Lord and God in the OT.
"Behold, I am going to SEND MY MESSENGER (Prophet), and he will clear the way before Me. AND THE LORD, whom you seek, will suddenly come to His temple; and the messenger of the covenant, in whom you delight, behold, He is coming," says the LORD of hosts."
TORAH- Note: the book of Daniel is under Writings in the Jewish Torah
Daniel 7:13 “In my vision at night I looked, and there before me was one like a son of man,[a] coming with the clouds of heaven. He approached the Ancient of Days and was led into his presence."
New testament
Luke 21:27 "At that time they will see the Son of Man coming in a cloud with power and great glory."
So the flesh of the High Priest on the Day of Atonement, was abandoned by the man who lived in it , by the Way of the Atonement, a Ram slain to justify the Priest as having died, and so now the man is liberated to meet God, And the man is no longer a man ,because he died to the Law. The High Priest was prepared as a corpse at his own funeral, washed, perfumed and dressed and sent into the Tomb, or the Temple Holy of Holies, and there God Raised up the flesh and indwelt the High Priest
Exodus 4:16 " It will be as if you are Yahweh to him" God Himself , gives Moses an indwelling of the Holy Ghost, so that in effect, God was walking with Moses together in the body of Moses, In Deuteronomy 32:6 Moses asks the people. " Is not God your Father ?" This strikes the parallel that no man stands besides God, but God is willing to coincide and be within the man, if the man is found favor with God, The High Priest, Levite, uses his flesh to give God a Temple to appear.
Why the act of Atonement. The ancient Jews believed only when a man dies, does he get to see God. Abraham learned to substitute the symbol of the bull or ram being slain, to excuse himself to live, while after he gets to see God. Then the idea of the Substitute saves Isaac , and the whole method goes into the Temple Worship , where the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost mingle to incarnate God from Invisible Shekinah to borne into a flesh High Priest. To see Moses or Joshua was to see God.
In the Leviticus Law of the Temple Priest, a Ram is offered to symbolize the death of the High Priest as an Atonement for his own sin, then the Priest, washed , dressed as a man at his own Funeral, enters the Temple Holy of Holies, giving up his flesh to God, which now, the man is not man, because Ritually he is equal to Dead, the Law no longer calls him a man as dead. Then God Raises up the Priest by Shekinah Glory indwelling the Priest to reanimate the body, so God appears in the flesh.
Genesis 22 A Sacred Assembly gathers at Mount Moriah, It is a Father, Abraham, with his Son, Isaac ,and a appearing of the Holy Spirit as Angel of the Lord. The Required worship involves Three Witnesses , Father, Son ,and Holy Spirit to obtain a Salvation, delayed by a Ram offered until the final substitute of a Lamb, is given as Abraham explained to his son Isaac, who was then spared, or Risen from the moment of death. The Priest is then accounted by the Ram slain, a dead man.
God gave the Tree as Three particular appearances , while remaining a single concept. Genesis 1:12 Tree, Fruit, Seed, The Tree gives to be the Fruit, The Fruit gives to bear the Seed, the Seed is planted and the Tree appears again. God is One, but Divines as Two Trees in Genesis 2. Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil, ( two things) and Tree of Life ( one more thing) So Three Things must come together as the Divine God , who is One, yet is presented by Divine Numbers. 3=1
Isaiah 53:6 "All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the LORD HATH LAID ON HIM THE INIQUITY OF US ALL."
Isaiah 53:10 "Yet it pleased the LORD to bruise him; he hath put him to grief: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin, he shall see his seed, he shall prolong his days, and the pleasure of the LORD shall prosper in his hand."
ONLY GOD CAN TAKE AND CARRY OUR SINS ON HIS SHOULDERS...BECAUSE ONLY GOD IS WITHOUT SIN.
"Behold, I am going to SEND MY MESSENGER (Prophet), and he will clear the way before Me. AND THE LORD, whom you seek, will suddenly come to His temple; and the messenger of the covenant, in whom you delight, behold, He is coming," says the LORD of hosts."
TORAH- Note: the book of Daniel is under Writings in the Jewish Torah
Daniel 7:13 “In my vision at night I looked, and there before me was one like a son of man,[a] coming with the clouds of heaven. He approached the Ancient of Days and was led into his presence."
BOTH ARE USELESS FOOLS, THE RABBI KNOWS VERSES IN THE TORAH THAT PROVE GOD IS A TRINITY, WHILE THE CHRISTIAN MAN DOESEN'T EVEN KNOW HIS OWN BIBLE WHICH INCLUDES THE OS.
What is the meaning of Zecheriah 2:10-11? “Shout and be glad, O Daughter of Zion. For I am coming, and I will live among you,” declares the LORD. “Many nations will be joined with the LORD in that day and will become my people. I will live among you and you will know that the LORD Almighty has sent me to you.
With all due respect to Dr. Craig, It's interesting that he is a research professor of Philosophy, and is also the author of "Philosophical Foundations for a Christian Worldview". The Bible says "Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit". So where is his trinity doctrine expressly explained in the Bible?
Bla bla bla bla, what a waste of time.. at this time in human history we should be over religion, listening to two theists banging their respective holy books in eachothers' heads is just embarrasing and sad for them... But should, in reality, be a mightly army for the more enligthened atheists - I mean: how can you listen to such a babble and still believe that scripture actually should be taken seriously?
@Andersxman If it's such a 'waste of time' and so stupid for people to listen to theists 'babbling' on about theology why are You watching? -___- It seems odd for someone with such an opinion to listen to videos like this and take the time to write a comment.
At least they debate in a civil manner and while these guys can debate, apparently Dawkins cannot debate either one of them. I may not be xtian but Craig does debate well and I think so does Singer. Odd how Dawkins runs and hides from both these guys
Since God gives the Tree as Three Forms, the Tree, the Fruit, the Seed, and does not bother to name other parts, God gives the Essential Revelation of the Tree of Life in the Garden of Eden, which if anyone eats of it, they will live forever, suggesting a "perpetual motion machine" .Then Moses codifies the notion of the Metaphor of the Tree of Life with the sight of the "Burning Bush" where within that tree, having fruit and seed, that God Himself is actively appearing within a Trinity.
Genesis One gives us the Tree as Three Essential Forms of One Concept, the Tree comes with it's own Fruit, with it's own Seed. So which is the whole concept of the Tree ? The other parts, such as bark, leaves, sap, trunk, branches, are not named in the Genesis Creation as essential, but that there is a type of plant that has it's fruit, and in it the seed that repetitively restores the plant over and over in a verbal sense of the Entity in Motion , God gives us the idea of the Trinity.
The Tree of Life is given as a metaphor for God showing a verbal sense of three forms that recycle the issue of the tree. God in Genesis 1 gives the Tree with the Fruit, with the Seed in the Fruit, as Three Concepts in a Unity, a tri-unity, or Trinity, being a Verb title to a single Entity that can move or change by appearance. The Tree gives the Fruit, the Fruit gives the Seed, the Seed restores the Tree, over and over, a Process a Verb sense of Naming God as a doer of deeds. 3=1
The Rabbi is not telling the whole story. Genesis 22 Abraham as the Father, Isaac as the Son, gathered at Mount Moriah to fulfill God's Word, to make a Sacrifice. Then the Holy Spirit as a third person in the Gathering, the Angel of the Lord, appeared to spare the Father and Son, with the Substitute Offering. So the collective of Three Persons in a Unity to Offer Sacrifice, Father, Son, Holy Ghost, appeared , and is why Jews offer Three Worships, to show Three Gathered in the Unity
The Tree is not the end in itself, The Entity is more than the Tree. The Tree appears and bears Fruit, The Fruit appears and bears the Seed, the Seed falls and raises up the Tree. This is a Trinity of appearances, but the whole concept is not the Tree, not the Fruit, not the Seed, but all Three in a Process, A Mystery in Motion , God is giving as Father, the Father is giving as Son, the Son is giving as Holy Spirit, Thus God is the Trinity of Three Persons, but they are One
Premier Evangelical Protestant Trinitarian Millard Erickson states "The doctrine of the Trinity is not clearly or explicitly taught anywhere in Scripture" Robert Bowman Jr. Evangelical Trinitarian Apologist states "Nobody who believes in this doctrine claims they have a full comprehension of it" B.B. Warfield Reformed Theologian states"The Biblical Doctrine of the Trinity is not Biblical, there are no analogies to it in nature, not even in the spiritual nature of man!"
@Szygyify So in an essay entitled "the Biblical doctrine of the Trinity" he says that it is not biblical? I have that essay. The actual quote is "The term "Trinity" is not a Biblical term".
Why did you lie about the quote to prove your point?
@junglehappiness I want everyone who does have the opportunity to read the essay to make the judgement themselves about B.B. Warfield's very devastating and revelatory information on the very unbiblical language employed and the doctrines inherent subjectivity. Let the readers make a decision about the information not you! Apparently you have a horse on this race.
@Szygyify I mentioned B.B. Warfield because I think that he is a Liar! His whole essay suffers from cognitive dissonance. It is filled with anachronisms and wild eyed theological assumptions, he affirms and denies his pro-Trinitarian position simultaneously and my overall position is that The Old Testament does not teach this mysterious doctrine. Are you a TULIP Calvinist? because your issue with me seems to be with Warfield alone? Did you cross check me on the other quotes also?
@junglehappiness Since you do have access to that essay cross check me on these quotes "It is a plain matter of fact that none who have depended on the revelation embodied in the Old Testament alone have ever attained to the doctrine of the Trinity" and "The mystery of the Trinity is not revealed in the Old Testament". What Testament do you think Jesus was teaching his disciples from?
@junglehappiness "Because the Trinity is such an important part of later Christian doctrine, it is striking that the term does not appear in the NT. Likewise the developed concept of three coequal partners in the Godhead found in later creedal formulations cannot be clearly detected within the confines of the canon" (Oxford Companion to the Bible, ed. Bruce Metzger, OUP, 1993, p. 782).
@junglehappiness "Theologians agree that the New Testament also does not contain an explicit doctrine of the Trinity" (Encyclopedia of Religion, Vol. 15, p. 54). "The ancients made a wrong use of [John 10:30, "I and the Father are one"] to prove that Christ is...of the same essence with the Father. For Christ does not argue about the unity of substance, but about the agreement that he has with the Father" (John Calvin, Commentary on John).
@junglehappiness "Paul habitually differentiates Christ from God" (C.J. Cadoux, A Pilgrim’s Further Progress, pp. 40, 42). "Paul never equates Jesus with God" (W.R. Matthews, The Problem of Christ in the 20th Century, Maurice Lectures, p. 22).
@junglehappiness "On the whole the New Testament, like the Old, speaks of the Holy Spirit as a divine energy or power" (W.E. Addis and Thomas Arnold, A Catholic Dictionary, 1960, p. 810). "The third Person was asserted at a Council of Alexandria in 362...and finally by the Council of Constantinople of 381" (A Catholic Dictionary, p. 812). Cross check me on these quotes also besides B.B. Warfield.
@junglehappiness "The Presbyterian clergy are loudest, the most intolerant of all sects, the most tyrannical, and ambitious; ready at the word of the lawgiver, if such a word could be now obtained, to put the torch to the pile, and to rekindle the flames in which their oracle Calvin consumed the poor Servetus, because he could not fathom the proposition which has demonstrated that three are one, and one is three". Thomas Jefferson 3rd Persident of the U.S.
@junglehappiness "I can never join Calvin in addressing his god. He was indeed an Atheist, which I can never be; or rather his religion was Daemonism. If ever man worshipped a false god, he did. The being described in his 5 points is not the god whoom you and I acknowledge and adore, the Creator and benevolent and governor of the world, but a daemon of malignant spirit. It would be more pardonable to believe in no god at all, then to blaspheme him by the atrocious attributes of Calvin." Ibid.
CarmineFragione's views are interesting because his mystical/ paradoxical analogies gives one a clear insight as to the state of mind one must have to come to terms with Trinitarian metaphysics, a system of thought completely foreign and toxic to the Bible.
@Szygyify@Szygyify Okay. There's no way I can reply to that in one go. Quoting people who disagree with the trinity, calvin, and presbytirianism is a moot point. No matter what you believe, I could quote people who disagree. However, some of the quotes are laughable: "paul never equates Jesus with God" see Titus 1:1 where Jesus is names our God and Saviour as just 1 example
Wow will Craig needs ti study his Jewish roots. Everything in the Hebrew bible points to Christ. lev 23 says the feasts given are yaweh s. U soon find out Christ fullfilled the first 4 feasts on the very day yaweh said that day was set aside for his feast. He claimed to b the living water at the water livation ceremony. He claimed to be the light of the world when Jerusalem was named the light of the world for yom kippour
And what "image", prey-tell, is that? Not to sound crass, but shouldn't we have 3 heads? "Our Image" doesnt mean 3. It means 2. Read John 17: 3. Where's the H.S.? Also John 17:21. Be brave & consider how much of life is interwoven by "2" vs. three interconnected composits. Also read Romans 1:20 with a discerning mind and the absolute "2" will come to life.
Sorry.. Trinity belief is the sacred cow of Christianity. Wake up before you die in your sleep.
Three in One is simple ... Gen 1:26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: ... we were made in *their* image, they are: Father, Son, Holy Spirit and we are body, soul and spirit. They are three in One, we are three in one.
Again. This is all conjecture searching for concensus. You gave no text to prove your point. Remember...In the beginning was the (SPOKEN) "word" Yha --not the written. Yha is the only person by that covenant identity who is an absolute WITHIN HIMSELF --self existing. Beside Him there is no savior. Yes Yha-oshua is divine, but he is the son
Please show me even where the title "god" comes from. No righteous origin. From Trent it's clear to see that the whole Christian gospel is catholic.
A King has a prescribed behavior when he sits on the Throne, by the Law of the Throne. But when the King goes home to his own kids, they jump all over the King and beat him up, and the King is reduced to one of the kids, by his behavior. And then , when the King goes to be with the Queen, again the King is another Person of Interest, by the conditions of the behavior a man has with a woman. So God is the Father, is the Son , is the Holy Ghost, based on Works God Wills to do.
God begins with a Mind, In the Mind of God, God determines He will Create the World . For what reason ? God Divines in His mind, to be a Father, but to whom ? Whatever exists, is still only God, for nothing exists outside the Being of God. So God thinks, God will also be the Son, and so the Character of human persons pour out of God, and God sends the Son to be King and experience the good and the bad, life and death and determine the quality of Mercy, a King has as a Holy Spirit.
The Letter of the Law and the Spirit of the Law can only be determined by the Trust , wherein more than one person has appeared and behaved so by the terms of the Law and reported their experience. So a Law without a report from those under the Law, to determine the nature of the Graces through the Law, leave a Law nothing more than a Mathematical Theory, having no flesh and blood feelings. So God comes in the flesh to determine the Nature of the Holy Spirit that then Reads the Law.
Isnt it strange that it always takes a "3rd" person to explain trinity?
3 people in one "nature" is a nature of three. Can't you see this is all conjecture?
The more scholars try to define him the more convoluted it bcomes. Satan loves a concensus! I ask you...How does one break the 1st commandment?? Faith in "ONE' god isnt enough. Which "one" god is it? "Lord" & "God" are mere titles. Yahshua was the son of Yah. It's all about 2. How much simpler could it be?
@microvantastic you are not quite right, because when Father and Son make a Covenant Agreement, then the Power of the Agreement takes preference over any future desires of the Father or the Son. So, the Incorporation of the Law is then not a Dictate by God, but a Covenant Experience that worked it's Way through the Patriarchs who responded to God , who appeared by various ways, and now appears fully in Christ as the Incarnation of the Word, that came of the Trust between Father and Son.
any one can be a hebrew but not everyone can be from the tribes of israel. It a blood relationship and covenents from god to them. Gentiles have to find there own way to god from the teachings of abraham.
God the Father is masculine to show the absolute rule of the Law and Judgment. but God then brings the Moon, as the softer side of God, as the Sun burns hot, the Moon is cool. God gives the Holy Spirit as an Eve, to Adam, a Suffering Servant, which then is not a man but a woman, and she serves her husband , but does not carry Torah and is not judged by the same judgment. So, in real Judaism, to be a child or woman is a good excuse to plea bargain with God, Thus the Sacrifice.
Dr. Craig said the Christians really have no "Knowledge" of God, but merely acting on Faith to respond to the Salvation and the Sacrifice, which concludes God accepting the terms as God would for the children and the women , but not for the "Man of Sin" For the Rabbi who says he really knows the Law, he must be held "Guilty" for "INTENTIONAL SIN" and what sacrifice can be for him, except the guilt be upon his head and he dies for his sin. Christianity is about Grace and the Woman.
"The Just shall live by Faith" this is a test of the spirit of the mind of the man, to see by the shear telling of a Faith Story credited to God, if the man's heart can be pricked open to expose he still has the Innocence of the child God made the man to be. If the man is evil ,twisted and laughs at the idea of God sending His own Son to die in your place, that you might turn your life around, if the ever idea of this Powerful Story, means nothing to you, it might mean you are already dead.
God comes to tell a man a story, and the story needs not be real, but the story telling is the TEST of the man it is told to. If you react with a prick in your heart, and you are humbled, then God sees you are still God's son. But if you laugh at the whole idea of the story , God may have already damned your soul . God said God loved Jacob , but hated Esau. God is the Story Teller, and God wants to see how you react, if you are alive to God or already dead to God. So Jesus is beautiful
The Trinity is just a compaction on the concept of TRI- UNITY. God is not a fixture, God's Being is able to play out the passion of every human being ever lived and feel their lives as if God was there living the life, and God is there in each person living that life, and that is why God knows everyone. God became the Father to His Son and sent the Holy Spirit like a Mother to buffer the bitterness of the Law and Judgment of hard cold facts. God is Author, Actor and Stage, all in One
A truly evil man cannot have a child like faith in Jesus dying for his sins, he would laugh at that , and that is exactly how God measures the man, to see whose sins are intentional and whose sins God can count as UNINTENTIONAL And apply forgiveness. God said " I shall have mercy upon whom I shall have mercy" So there requires an honesty of integrity , a degree of Innocence left in the man , who can believe the Gospel, and so if the man does believe the son is still alive to the Father.
God can judge a man who is a believer in Jesus, by the child like nature that is required for such Faith as Real, and so God does not forgive a man whose sins were intentional, and God forgives someone whose sins is unintentional, but the mystery is, how does God measure the man ? A man is justified by Faith , and then God already forgave the sin as unintentional, and yes Leviticus was about unintentional sins, because who among us really understands God's Law or our own selves ? Faith Works
Is The Trinity doctrine supposedly true, because explains why God need to be three different persons in one in order to perform different tasks although he is allmighty?
@RomanticRebel267 you have sinned against the Sovereign God and His prior Election to be as He wishes. God agreed to "forget your sins" ? How can an Eternal God, forget your sins ? Unless God is willing by His own passion, His Free Will, to lower Himself from Eternal Proportions, to become human in thinking, then God by no means can ever forgive you or forget your sins. Can a Leopard change it's spots ? the Material Being cannot be another Person, but the Spirit can be any Person
@RomanticRebel267 you have sinned against the Sovereign God and His prior Election to be as He wishes. God agreed to "forget your sins" ? How can an Eternal God, forget your sins ? Unless God is willing by His own passion, His Free Will, to lower Himself from Eternal Proportions, to become human in thinking, then God by no means can ever forgive you or forget your sins. Can a Leopard change it's spots ? the Material Being cannot be another Person, but the Spirit can be any Person
@RomanticRebel267 But how does God Justify forgiving one man his sins and yet holding another man guilty ? The Bible says the Lord loved Jacob but hated Esau. So, your idea is incomplete as explaining how God comes to the determination that a man's sins is UNINTENTIONAL , like a woman in beguilement, and so The Sacrifice Covers the Sin, and then another man's sins are INTENTIONAL, and God hates that man. You cannot equivocate to just say God will forgive just anyone, more is needed.
@CarmineFragione You would have to understand what the law says about atonement and how atonement can be used to forgive sins. Christians and Jews have different views of atonement for sin.
@RomanticRebel267 Atonement is for "unintentional sins" What makes the difference between a guilt of sin that is intentional or unintentional ? Men were considered trained in the Law and could sin against the Law. But the women and children were separated by Grace, so their sins cannot be legally guilty as intentional. So that Jesus dying for the sins of the many, if the Church is Feminine, as the Woman and the Christians are children to God, then all their sins are forgiven by the Blood.
@RomanticRebel267 You can show me in Genesis, where Adam died for his sin , but you cannot show me where Eve died for her sin. She was to suffer in child birth, yes, and that equates the nature of the Holy Spirit to a feminine, a Moon, as opposed to the Sun and it's Wrathful Fire, concept. Eve never died , and so though she disobeyed God, she had only learned the Law by her husband who leavened the Law " Do not even touch" which was not God's Law, and so she was "Beguiled" not Guilty.
@RomanticRebel267 Jeremiah 31:22 " The Lord will create a new thing on earth- a woman shall surround the man" When God saw the Law was ended, as in Lamentations 2:9 "The Law is no more" God then had the Grace of His Holy Spirit, which was surrounding the case of women and children, not the man, but then God made the New Covenant to Jeremiah, and it ends up being the matter of the Woman surrounding the guilty man, sort of like " Hiding behind your mother's apron strings" Salvation.
The book of Hebrews twisted the words of the prophet whom it claims to be quoting. Whereas Jeremiah 31:31 states "I was a husband unto them (the Jews)," Paul reverses Jeremiah's prophecy to read, "I disregard them." How can Paul disregard the words of Jeremiah? how could he so fragrantly change the work of G-d? God's bond with Jeremiah 31:31 is intimately portrayed as a betrothed woman, which is precisely the opposite relationship om Hebrews 8:9, where the Jews are cast as rejected people.
When a man dreams, he has a Divine Nature akin to God. The Mind surrounds the Dream, and indwells the dream at the same time. One can begin by feeling like only an observer, hovering over a landscape. Then one sees their own self and then they move into that person and their point of view changes from hovering to being in a body to witness all the people, places and things of the dream. Which shows a mere man can be the Author , can be an Actor and also be observing Himself in a dream
The Trinity is the most basic notion of the Ancient Story Teller, which is how the Bible was written to be read aloud. One Being, the Priest, would read all the Scripture and act as the Divine God , to separate by Talents out to the characters of persons in the stories, by using a mask or altering his voice, as a method to let the Audience know who is saying what and where and when, while all the time , there is only the Author/ Actor/ Narrator serving everything needed God is Divine
The God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob has a name, his name is YHWH. He is the God of the Hebrew Scriptures, he is ONE GOD, hence the word Monotheism. Whereas the surrounding nations in the Ancient Near East and all non Judaic religions across the world worship(ed) past and present Triune Godheads,Polytheism. There are no "real" or "fake" trinities in Judaism nor in the teachings of Jesus Christ who claimed only to be the son of GOD YHWH not YHWH himself.
Lane Craig doesn't believe in the Hebrew Scriptures because the ONLY Creator God spoken of there is YHWH. YHWH is one! Not 3 in 1! Craig only relies on the New Testament and reads into it an apriori Trinintarian perspective. He is in truth a Marcionite who abandons Jewish Monotheism in favor of a Platonic Trinitarianism that abandons YHWH' s name for the Platonic nameless "GOD" and in turn conflates the identity of the son Jesus with that of YHWH. Turning Jesus into something he never claimed!
Plato's Trinity: Hoen (The One)-Nous (The Ideas of Hoen)-Pneuma(The Spirit or World Soul)/ Philo's (Middle Platonic) Trinity: Hoen(The One)-Logos(The Ideas or Wisdom of Hoen)-Pneuma(The Spirit or World Soul) Logos existed first as a thought of Hoen then as a real being, Plotinus' (Neo Platonic) Trinity: Hoen(The One)-Nous (The Ideas )-Pneuma(The Spirit) Nous eternally generated from Hoen.
@stevelovesgod OK let me reword it..Islam is the ONLY non christian religion that believes that Jesus is the Messiah also believes in his miraculous birth also believes he will return at the end of times to kill the Antichrist in which you follow...
"Doctrine of the trinity is not found in any document or relic belonging to the Church of the first three centuries. They testify... to the supremacy of the Father, the only true God, and to the inferior and derived nature of the Son. There is nowhere among these remains a coequal trinity... no undivided three... coequal, infinite, self-existent, and eternal. This was a conception to which the age had not arrived. It was of later origin."
"Today, however, scholars generally agree that there is no doctrine of the trinity as such in either the Old Testament or the New Testament."
('Harper-Collins Encyclopedia of Catholicism', 1995 ed.)
"The formulation 'one God in three persons' was not solidly established, certainly not fully assimilated into Christian life and its profession of faith, prior to the end of the 4th century."
Good video. Rabbi Tovia Singer is a huge inspiration for me in my Jewish faith. I'm very conservative and traditional in my views on Judaism. I like how Rabbi Tovia debates with Christians. Question and learn to see what others have to say. I will always stick by my guns but respect others who have different views then I do.
@yngnikko90 Second while Scripture does not use the Trinity, the Trinity (along with the incarnation) is the foundation of the NT. It guides the NT. The NT can be summed up as "Jesus is Lord." Christianity can be summed up that way. The Holy Spirit is another counselor like Jesus according to John's gospel. Both are personal and do things and have attributes that only God has. For instance scripture is clear there is only one Lord. God. And Jesus is lord.
@yngnikko90 First it does not contradict monotheism because God is one. He is one God. That is monotheism. Maybe it contradicts a strict monotheism but that is a different story. But no if you have one God then you have monotheism.
I see that we have a Jesuit commenting on this video who is using multiple troll accounts to create the allusion that others are agreeing with his/her stances. I never thought I would witness Christians using manipulative debating tactics, but I realize that the Jesuits are paid handsomely to maintain the status quo. They know they can't lawfully burn us at the stake, so they undertake a cyberspace inquisition. Fortunately, few on YouTube are gullible enough to buy into their dogmatic tautology.
The Story Teller begins by Narrating to set the stage for the Story He is telling. He narrates in the Third Person , speaking about people places and things . When the Story Teller say God is about to appear a speak out, then the Story Teller is using the "Second Person Tense" as introducing the main Character, God, . Then the same Story Teller, using his Voice a little more royally, then speaks the Quotations of God, in the First Person Tense, so that God is directly speaking out.
Anyone who ever had a dream, so real and vivid, with all sorts of people places and things, and while beginning with a sense of hovering over the dream, when one sees the self in the dream, the sense of intimate feeling of your own identity awakens in that person , and you become that person with a material feeling and seeing the world around as a person inside the person who is having this Divine Moment of behaving as God does cause the world to appear and God appears in it as well.
A Divine Being, means One Substantive Being, say a Human Being, corporal , incorporation by many elements that work together as a Set Unity, and then the Mind separates powers, say to drive the Car, while one thinks about family affairs, and the other part of the Mind is controlling the heart and respiration. If an emergency appears while driving, the divided focus unites in strength to maintain control. So we are able as a being, live multiple lives as unique persons or gather as one
Ephesians 4:9 "What does "he ascended " mean except that he also descended to the lower regions ? He who descended is the very one who ascended higher that all the heavens, in order to fill out whole universe" Paul is being Mystical about the Creation being God's Dream World. God is having a Dream, the world appears for His Pleasure, we are all in it, and BEHOLD, God the Creator has the power to surround the world to keep it sustained as real, and then also appear in His Dream as Himself.
The Greek Drama accepted that a singular Being of the Author who is also the only Actor on the stage. having then a Divine Literary Power to play out all parts, seeing the Author owns the story and all it's subjects are coming out of his own mind. Then the sole Actor merely changes his VOICE or puts on a MASK ( Persona in Latin means "he wears a mask" ) and by this Divine Power the same One Being, becomes many different Persons, and plays out all the essential parts of the story by Himself.
God is the Only Existence, and tells the story in the method of the Ancient Story Teller, who uses Himself as the sole Being, but brings out of Himself three distinct Persons of Character to speak the story so the people who hear can understand. The Being as the Story Teller, Is the Narrator in the Third Person speaking of people, places and things, to give them life. Then the Story Teller announces Himself in the Second Person, and then the God, moves to speak in the First Person Tense.
@yngnikko90 The doctrine of the TRinity teaches that there is only one God. Do not make a strawman to rebutt. The Trinity is God in one nature (one God) in three persons or subsistences. So it does not contradict the Shema.
Ok, so you want to say one, Jesus is God, there is this trinity, and you will not have salvation without taking Jesus as God. Yet if it is so important, that why would Jesus not of said it once, not once. Let alone it being the most important thing, if so why would it not be said not only just once but 100 or more times. Yet not once, not once, not once... So why? Why does Jesus never say I am God?
The trinity is only known by paul new version of Christianity.
julio14335 2 weeks ago
The Spirit is distinguished from the “LORD” (Num. 27:18) and from “God” (Ps. 1:10-12). God the Son is distinguished from God the Father (Ps. 45:6-7; Heb. 1:8-9)
MrJgkeeling 2 weeks ago
@MrJgkeeling Since you mentioned Numbers, Read chapter13:23. If you say that it means bunch of grapes then why don't you say bunch of gods why stick to number 3?
Deuteronomy 17:6 talks about if there is echad/one witness then there is no death sentence but it has to be two.
Ecclesiastes 4:8 talks about echad without companion, has no son or brother?
One can mean one or many. In auctions there are lots, one lot could have several items or just ONE.
Stop playing with Hebrew words. No assertions
IamaZionistGoy 3 days ago
The word "Elohim" and the pronoun “us” are plural forms, definitely referring in the Hebrew language to more than two. In Isa. 48:16 and 61:1, the Son is speaking while making reference to the Father and the Holy Spirit. Compare Isa. 61:1 to Lk. 4:14-19 to see that it is the Son speaking. In the OT, “LORD” is distinguished from “Lord” (Gen. 19:24; Hos. 1:4). The LORD has a Son (Ps. 2:7, 12; Pr. 30:2-4).
MrJgkeeling 2 weeks ago
@MrJgkeeling More assertions.
In matthew 14.17 does it mentions 2 fish or 2 fishes?
How many sheep did jman mean 1 or 2 or 3. Read john 21:16. How many sheep does one bring for a sacrifice for the family? Whole flock? Stop playing with Hebrew words. Stop trying to make something out of nothing.
Chayim is plural too to the dummies but does it mean lives or life? In Jewish toasting one says L'Chayim it means to life not Lives.
IamaZionistGoy 3 days ago
There is one (Echad means united) God (Deut. 6:4; 1 Cor. 8:4; Gal. 3:20; 1 Tim. 2:5), consisting of three Persons (Gen. 1:1, 26; 3:22; 11:7; Isa. 6:8, 48:16, 61:1; Matt. 3:16-17, 28:19; 2 Cori. 13:14). In Gen. 1:1, the Hebrew plural noun "Elohim" is used. In Gen. 1:26, 3:22, 11:7 and Isa. 6:8, the plural pronoun for “us” is used.
MrJgkeeling 2 weeks ago
@MrJgkeeling assertions does not make you right. What is the Creator saying that matters.
Exodus 20:2-3 Numbers 23:19 Deuteronomy 4:11-12, 4:35,4:39, 6:4, 6.14, 32:39, I Samuel 2:2, 15:29, I Kings 8:27, 8:60, II Kings 19:19, Isaiah 40:18, 40:25, 42:8, 43:10-11, 44:6-8, 44:24, 45:5-6, 45:18-19, 45:21-22, 46:5, 46:9, 48:11, Hosea 13:4, Joel 2:27, Malachi 2:10, Psalm 73:25, Psalm 81:8-9, Psalm 146:3, Nehemiah 9:6 and I Chronicles 17:20.
IamaZionistGoy 3 days ago
@IamaZionistGoy If God is One; singular and not plural, why does He share His power through the Angel of the LORD? The Rabbi's call Him Metatron, He shares God's authority, speaks as God, and is called God many times. Look also at Isaiah 9:6 (Judges 13:18), Micah 5:2, Daniel 9:26, Psalm 110:1 Who is David speaking of? Who are the WE in Genesis and Isaiah that God speaks as? Are we made from angels, or God alone?
MrJgkeeling 2 days ago
@MrJgkeeling First the capitalization of the Bible was xtians doing. Second in the translation they used lord. Have you notice in one LORD they capitalized the whole word and in the other just the first letter of the word Lord. There goes your theory that jman is equal to your god. If jamn was same as his god then both LORDS should be identical. This Psalm is written by David to be read by the Cohen about his conversation with the Creator. The Jews share Israel with the Creator are NOT equal.
IamaZionistGoy 19 hours ago
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Isaiah 48:16-17 Trinity in the OT
Come ye near unto me, hear ye this; I have not spoken in secret from the beginning; from the time that it was, there am I: and now the Lord God, and his Spirit, hath sent me. Thus saith the Lord, thy Redeemer, the Holy One of Israel; I am the Lord thy God which teacheth thee to profit, which leadeth thee by the way that thou shouldest go.
clintmmartin 2 weeks ago
It's interesting watching two people debate something this meaningless when neither side has any basis at all for their position. "I'm right." - "No, actually you're wrong because I'm right." - "But my book says I'm right, which means you are wrong." - "Well, my book says..."
dsaxton1 3 weeks ago
It is interesting to watch people of other faiths support their monotheistic view with surety and clarity while their counterparts clearly struggle to support same.
muneca1226 3 weeks ago
According to Dr. Craig if you approach trinity from the writing of old testament one wouldn’t come to believe there’s a trinity, only if you approach it in the new testament, so it depends on which scripture you look at. That admission is basically saying that the bible (old and new testament) is not in agreement regarding the trinity doctrine.
muneca1226 3 weeks ago
I hate how some people assume that all christians believe in the trinity
jxxbomb 3 weeks ago
What a crock of shit!The trinity of stupidity i see are these grown-up morons(Strobel,Craig and that rabbi).Debating nothing but mythology(somewhat then reasonable as a referential starting point to help stablish some ground to man's first critical exploring perceptions of reality albeit,was intuition-based only)born of the mind and carried out by an inmature intellectuality that at most,it should be now view,as nothing more than an understood sentiment for man's modest mind expansion beginning.
godof79 3 weeks ago
To Rabbi Tovia: Doesn't the old testament as we called it, that GOD would make a new covenant. Here's the text This is the covenant I will make with the house of Israel after that time, declares the Lord. I will put my laws in their minds and write them on their hearts. I will be their God, and they will be my people. That is what we Christians experience at the new birth as we called it!
TheElectricpablo 3 weeks ago
@TheElectricpablo "I will put my laws in their minds and write them on their hearts."
Certainly this has never happened, as you see there are many atheists and many other types of people. The New Covenant that Jeremiah is talking about is not an entirely new text. It's the same Torah but the laws will be inscribed in everyone's heart, this is contrary to the new testament's belief that the law was fulfilled.
missile300 3 weeks ago
@TheElectricpablo Christians today don't follow the laws. They don't keep kosher, keep Shabbat, celebrate the holidays and follow it's commandments. This is all proof that what was spoken by Jeremiah has not been fulfilled.
missile300 3 weeks ago
What about the Holy Spirit of GOD? You CANNOT deny it! And what about your MESSIAH? GOD is all of them we are not saying that we believe in 3 gods! Jews cannot understand it!
TheElectricpablo 3 weeks ago
"Today, however, scholars generally agree that there is no doctrine of the trinity as such in either the Old Testament or the New Testament."
('Harper-Collins Encyclopedia of Catholicism', 1995 ed.)
HeroOfChristArchives 3 weeks ago
No, the trinity is nonsense. And no "Christians don't believe in it" rather "Heretics believe in it."
TheGenuineChristian 4 weeks ago
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- The Rabbi is a young, chubby, Jackie Mason with a respectable jewfro.
- W.L.Craig is wearing way too much makeup.
cupwithhandles 4 weeks ago
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cupwithhandles 4 weeks ago
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cupwithhandles 4 weeks ago
....The Rabbi has a good point about Numbers 23:19. I have yet to meet a Trinitarian that can answer that passage.....They avoid it like the plague.
JAKEV25 1 month ago
It is absolute craziness.....The Rabbi refuses to recognize Christ as the Messiah and the Trinitarian refuses to believe that Jesus was the Human Messiah that was foretold in the Hebrew Scriptures. Both of them miss the simplicity and peace of the truth.
JAKEV25 1 month ago
The fat guy's voice is funny.
HunterGuilherme 1 month ago
I don't see what's so hard to understand. The catholic church made up the trinity. Historically this is proven. Yahshua did not pray to himself. The Holy Spirit is not a person this is absurd. The Hebrew says the Ruach meaning the breath or wind of God. Like I said, the catholic church made the trinity up. Can't argue with history. Further more, the trinity is something that cannot be read in the scripture. It is taught. Blame the catholic church for the trinity.
jdb0905 1 month ago
I find it amazing the Rabbi sited Num23:19 as actually meaning God isn't a man. He uses the same out of context logic Muslims try. The verse, in context, obviously means God is not a liar like men. Also, I can just quote Ex15:3:"The LORD is a man of war: the LORD is his name." By the Rabbi's logic, Moses contradicted himself.
SuperDonster 1 month ago
@SuperDonster Be honest here. He's been reading the original, unbutchered texts and you have not. His books haven't been modified repeatedly and are closest to their original form.
gvman3670 1 month ago
@gvman3670 "... and you have not..." #1)You don't know what I've been doing because you don't know me. #2) I quoted a scripture from the Torah("his" book); which is unchanged for 3,500yrs #3) I even said "OT"[Old Testament] in my comment; which is the Tanakh (Hebrew Bible); you seemed to have over looked that fact. #4)"his" book happens to be MY book too. And it's not just "his" of mine, it's YHWH's book as a blessing to all mankind; or at least those who pursue him and the truth.
God bless
SuperDonster 1 month ago
@SuperDonster Your OT is NOT the same as the Tanakh. Especially so if you don't read Hebrew. Translations, transliterations, mistranslations and omitted books. Once again, the OT is NOT the Tanakh.
gvman3670 1 month ago
@SuperDonster Furthermore, the oldest we can actually date any of the texts is around 200BCE.
gvman3670 1 month ago
@gvman3670 you're just a man of strife looking for youtube-comment fights; pretty sad. You haven't said anything that's useful. Go back, read the scriptures I quoted, and compare them to what the Tanakh says. Now, show me the discrepancy. You can't because there is none. I said what the scripture says. Therefor, you got pwnd.
SuperDonster 1 month ago
this rabbi is weird looking (hair style / gestures) -- he has a sound point.
the KING of the jews ( christ) was one of the holy prophets. the messiah was far from being a deity - common sense always roles period that's if it's ONLY common sense.
afterray 1 month ago
Didnt Jesus when asked are you God didnt he say God is in all of us
Mitchx42 1 month ago
I was looking for the definition of 'white noise' and I found this.
fiesta181 1 month ago
@2:56 - what a canard by Tovia... Nicene Creed is SUBSERVIENT to the Scriptures that means The Scriptures are the base and the support for what Nicene Council says and not the other way around. @3:32 Craig is WRONG there is a PROGRESSIVE revelation of Triune God ALSO in Old Testament. @4:45 another canard by Tovia...Triune God IS NOT a "product of Roman Catholic Church". This just show that Mr.Rabbi have zero knowledge of the early church and when actually Roman Church evolved into existence.
MilhamaH777 2 months ago
@MilhamaH777 I think his refering to more evidence to what the Creed means
Mitchx42 1 month ago
@MilhamaH777 I agree, hints of the Trinity are definitely in the OT. One of my favorites is Gen19:24: "Then the LORD rained upon Sodom and upon Gomorrah brimstone and fire from the LORD out of heaven." Just ask a Jew or a Muslim how did the LORD that was on earth(an angel) rain down brimstone and fire from the LORD in heaven? They have no answer. That's because the SON(pre-incarnate Jesus) is the LORD that was on earth raining fire and brimstone down from the LORD in heaven=the Father
Praise God
SuperDonster 1 month ago
@SuperDonster Indeed and thanks. Also Every time they saw God in OT the saw none else but pre-incarnate Eternal Son otherwise the warning and truth of Exodus 33:20 is a lie... Furthermore the one whom Isiah sees in Glory in Isaiah 6 and elsewhere is Eternal Son, Pre-Incarnate Jesus as Apostle John affirms and teaches about in Gospel of John 12:39-41. Jesus is not other but YHVH as a Second Person of One Triune God along with Father and Spirit. Amen.
MilhamaH777 1 month ago
Craig is used to arguing for a non-biblical minimal shiny happy god of the gaps for the purpose of debating atheists. He can't stand his ground against other theists because a truthful philosophical "god" cannot be reconciled with the "god" of any theological scripture. This is because there is no god.
pastafarianprophet 2 months ago
Its so funny trinity came alive after jesus(pbuh) went away.
Lizzio1980 2 months ago
@Lizzio1980 there is no JEsus pbuh,the lord god of Israel has nothing to do with adulterers,murderers,pedophiles or idol worshipers.Blasphemy !!!!.Muhammed pbuh the false prophet is just fulfilling Ezekiel 38,39
bloodhoundHermetic 2 months ago
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@bloodhoundHermetic "....Muhammed pbuh the false prophet..."
LOL, that's a great line! I'll definitely be using that one!
SuperDonster 1 month ago
We live in the Age of the Holy Spirit only those who place their faith in Christ will ever believe in the Trinity. All who deny that Jesus Christ is the YHWH of the OT will never understand the Trinity. Scripture clearly attests to Christ's divinity so he must be God himself! Don't use human logic have faith and the Holy Spirit will make you understand the Trinity.
Szygyify 2 months ago
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@Szygyify Psalm 110:1-5
"The LORD SAID UNTO MY LORD, Sit thou at my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool."
Psalm 110:5 "The Lord at thy right hand shall strike through kings in the day of his wrath
Isaiah 49:6 "....and to restore the preserved of Israel: I will also give you for a light to the Gentiles, that you may be MY SALVATION to the end of the earth."
Psalm 62:2 "HE ONLY is my rock and MY SALVATION; he is my defense; I shall not be greatly moved"
trinityistheLORD 2 months ago
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@Szygyify PROOF 5 OF TRINITY
TORAH- Note: the book of Daniel is under Writings in the Jewish Torah
Daniel 7:13 “In my vision at night I looked, and there before me was one like a son of man,[a] coming with the clouds of heaven. He approached the Ancient of Days and was led into his presence."
New testament
Luke 21:27 "At that time they will see the Son of Man coming in a cloud with power and great glory."
trinityistheLORD 2 months ago
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@Szygyify PROOF #4 OF TRINITY
TORAH CLEARLY SHOWS THAT GOD CAN TAKE THE FORM OF MAN
--- TORAH Genesis 1:2 "And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters."....."Let us create man in OUR OWN IMAGE."
NOTICE THAT ITS SAYS HIS SPIRIT
----TORAH When Jacob wrestles with an Angel who turns out to be GOD HIMSELF
----TORAH When God and Two Angels Appear to Abraham
----TORAH, When Daniel the Prophet sees God and says "one like a son of man" meaning a human DANIEL 7
trinityistheLORD 2 months ago
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@Szygyify PROOF #3 OF TRINITY
TORAH
Malachi 3:1
"Behold, I am going to SEND MY MESSENGER, and he will clear the way before Me. AND THE LORD, whom you seek, will suddenly come to His temple; and THE MESSENGER of the COVENANT, in whom you delight, behold, HE IS COMING," says the LORD of hosts."
Jeremiah 31:31 “The days are coming,” declares the LORD, “when I will make a NEW COVENANT with the people of Israel and with the people of Judah."
trinityistheLORD 2 months ago
@Szygyify PROOF 2 OF TRINITY
TORAH
Isaiah 53:6 "All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the LORD HATH LAID ON HIM THE INIQUITY OF US ALL."
Isaiah 53:10 "Yet it pleased the LORD to bruise him; he hath put him to grief: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin, he shall see his seed, he shall prolong his days, and the pleasure of the LORD shall prosper in his hand."
ONLY GOD CAN TAKE AWAY SINS BECAUSE ONLY GOD IS WITHOUT SIN.
trinityistheLORD 2 months ago
@Szygyify PROOF #1 OF TRINITY IN TORAH
TORAH
Psalm 110:1-5
"The LORD SAID UNTO MY LORD, Sit thou at my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool."
Psalm 110:5 "The Lord at thy right hand shall strike through kings in the day of his wrath."
CLEARLY KING DAVID IS NOT AT THE THE RIGHT HAND OF GOD BECAUSE THATS'S WHERE THE LORD SITS.
BLASPHEMEMY TO CLAIM THAT DAVID IS THE LORD,
TORAH
Exodus 15:3 "The LORD is a warrior; The LORD is His name."
trinityistheLORD 2 months ago
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@Szygyify Psalm 110:1-5
"The LORD SAID UNTO MY LORD, Sit thou at my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool."
Psalm 110:5 "The Lord at thy right hand shall strike through kings in the day of his wrath
Isaiah 49:6 "....and to restore the preserved of Israel: I will also give you for a light to the Gentiles, that you may be MY SALVATION to the end of the earth."
Psalm 62:2 "HE ONLY is my rock and MY SALVATION; he is my defense; I shall not be greatly moved"
trinityistheLORD 2 months ago
@Szygyify USE THESE POINTS MY GOOD FRIEND AND SPREAD THEM LIKE WILDFIRE THAT DOES NOT BURN....ANY GUESS ???
trinityistheLORD 2 months ago
The Trinity is really a "He are Three" and "They is One" God why is this concept so difficult to understand for all Non trinitarians? In the NT God is especially described as "One What and Three Who's". To understand the Trinity one must not lean on human understanding we must therefore lean and trust in God. No one said that the Trinity can be comprehended by using human logic. But if you don't place your faith in the Trinity you will burn in Hell!
Szygyify 2 months ago
cont. Jesus is the Great God and Saviour=Jesus is YHWH. Jesus is eternal like the Father=The Trinity. The Trinity is One Being with three co-eternal co-equal personalities. Not 3 Gods (Tritheism) nor is he One God with three faces(Modalism). Nor is God just One person(Unitarianism). The OT and the NT clearly teaches the doctrine of the Trinity. Trust not your own heart!
Szygyify 2 months ago
"Elohim" Plural=Compound Unity,God said Let "us" make man not let "me" make man=The Trinity,The Three Angels and Abraham=The Triune Godhead.
YHWH=I Am + Jesus=I Am, Jesus is YHWH
Baptize in The "Name" not names of Father,Son,Holy Spirit=Compound Unity=The Trinity. The Logos was "in the beginning"Logos is Eternal and God, Holy Spirit=The Helper has personality =Member of The Trinity. "My Lord and My God" Jesus is called Lord and God in the NT just like YHWH who is called Lord and God in the OT.
Szygyify 2 months ago
sooo basically the trinity is the idea that god has multiple-personality disorder?
red666111 2 months ago
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PROOF 3 OF TRINITY
TORAH
TORAH
Malachi 3:1
"Behold, I am going to SEND MY MESSENGER (Prophet), and he will clear the way before Me. AND THE LORD, whom you seek, will suddenly come to His temple; and the messenger of the covenant, in whom you delight, behold, He is coming," says the LORD of hosts."
Note: this "MESSENGER" is the "LORD"
trintyisgod 2 months ago
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PROOF 4 OF TRINITY
THE TORAH CLEARLY SHOWS THAT GOD CAN TAKE THE FORM OF A HUMAN.
--- TORAH Genesis 1:2 "And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters."....."Let us create man in OUR OWN IMAGE."
NOTICE THAT ITS SAYS HIS SPIRIT!!!!!!
------ TORAH When Jacob wrestles with an Angel who turns out to be GOD HIMSELF !!
------TORAH When God and Two Angels Appear to Abraham
------TORAH, When Daniel the Prophet sees God and says "one like a son of man" meaning a human DANIEL 7
trintyisgod 2 months ago
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PROOF 5 OF TRINITY
TORAH- Note: the book of Daniel is under Writings in the Jewish Torah
Daniel 7:13 “In my vision at night I looked, and there before me was one like a son of man,[a] coming with the clouds of heaven. He approached the Ancient of Days and was led into his presence."
New testament
Luke 21:27 "At that time they will see the Son of Man coming in a cloud with power and great glory."
trintyisgod 2 months ago
So the flesh of the High Priest on the Day of Atonement, was abandoned by the man who lived in it , by the Way of the Atonement, a Ram slain to justify the Priest as having died, and so now the man is liberated to meet God, And the man is no longer a man ,because he died to the Law. The High Priest was prepared as a corpse at his own funeral, washed, perfumed and dressed and sent into the Tomb, or the Temple Holy of Holies, and there God Raised up the flesh and indwelt the High Priest
CarmineFragione 2 months ago
Exodus 4:16 " It will be as if you are Yahweh to him" God Himself , gives Moses an indwelling of the Holy Ghost, so that in effect, God was walking with Moses together in the body of Moses, In Deuteronomy 32:6 Moses asks the people. " Is not God your Father ?" This strikes the parallel that no man stands besides God, but God is willing to coincide and be within the man, if the man is found favor with God, The High Priest, Levite, uses his flesh to give God a Temple to appear.
CarmineFragione 2 months ago
Why the act of Atonement. The ancient Jews believed only when a man dies, does he get to see God. Abraham learned to substitute the symbol of the bull or ram being slain, to excuse himself to live, while after he gets to see God. Then the idea of the Substitute saves Isaac , and the whole method goes into the Temple Worship , where the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost mingle to incarnate God from Invisible Shekinah to borne into a flesh High Priest. To see Moses or Joshua was to see God.
CarmineFragione 2 months ago
In the Leviticus Law of the Temple Priest, a Ram is offered to symbolize the death of the High Priest as an Atonement for his own sin, then the Priest, washed , dressed as a man at his own Funeral, enters the Temple Holy of Holies, giving up his flesh to God, which now, the man is not man, because Ritually he is equal to Dead, the Law no longer calls him a man as dead. Then God Raises up the Priest by Shekinah Glory indwelling the Priest to reanimate the body, so God appears in the flesh.
CarmineFragione 2 months ago
Genesis 22 A Sacred Assembly gathers at Mount Moriah, It is a Father, Abraham, with his Son, Isaac ,and a appearing of the Holy Spirit as Angel of the Lord. The Required worship involves Three Witnesses , Father, Son ,and Holy Spirit to obtain a Salvation, delayed by a Ram offered until the final substitute of a Lamb, is given as Abraham explained to his son Isaac, who was then spared, or Risen from the moment of death. The Priest is then accounted by the Ram slain, a dead man.
CarmineFragione 2 months ago
God gave the Tree as Three particular appearances , while remaining a single concept. Genesis 1:12 Tree, Fruit, Seed, The Tree gives to be the Fruit, The Fruit gives to bear the Seed, the Seed is planted and the Tree appears again. God is One, but Divines as Two Trees in Genesis 2. Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil, ( two things) and Tree of Life ( one more thing) So Three Things must come together as the Divine God , who is One, yet is presented by Divine Numbers. 3=1
CarmineFragione 2 months ago
PROOF #1 OF TRINITY IN TORAH
TORAH
Psalm 110:1-5
"The LORD SAID UNTO MY LORD, Sit thou at my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool."
Psalm 110:5 "The Lord at thy right hand shall strike through kings in the day of his wrath."
CLEARLY KING DAVID IS NOT AT THE THE RIGHT HAND OF GOD BECAUSE THATS'S WHERE THE LORD SITS.
IT IS BLASPHEMEMY TO CLAIM THAT DAVID IS THE LORD,
THE BOOK OF DUETERONOMY IN THE TORAH CLEARLY SAYS THE THE LORD IS ONE, AND THE LORD IS HIS NAME !!!!!!
yeshaubensar 3 months ago
PROOF 2 OF TRINITY
TORAH
Isaiah 53:6 "All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the LORD HATH LAID ON HIM THE INIQUITY OF US ALL."
Isaiah 53:10 "Yet it pleased the LORD to bruise him; he hath put him to grief: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin, he shall see his seed, he shall prolong his days, and the pleasure of the LORD shall prosper in his hand."
ONLY GOD CAN TAKE AND CARRY OUR SINS ON HIS SHOULDERS...BECAUSE ONLY GOD IS WITHOUT SIN.
yeshaubensar 3 months ago
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PROOF 3 OF TRINITY
TORAH
TORAH
Malachi 3:1
"Behold, I am going to SEND MY MESSENGER (Prophet), and he will clear the way before Me. AND THE LORD, whom you seek, will suddenly come to His temple; and the messenger of the covenant, in whom you delight, behold, He is coming," says the LORD of hosts."
Note: this "MESSENGER" is the "LORD"
yeshaubensar 3 months ago
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PROOF 4 OF TRINITY
THE TORAH CLEARLY SHOWS THAT GOD CAN TAKE THE FORM OF A HUMAN.
--- TORAH Genesis 1:2 "And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters."....."Let us create man in OUR OWN IMAGE."
NOTICE THAT ITS SAYS HIS SPIRIT!!!!!!
------ TORAH When Jacob wrestles with an Angel who turns out to be GOD HIMSELF!!!!
-------TORAH When God and Two Angels Appear to Abraham!!!
------- TORAH, When Daniel the Prophet sees God and says "one like a son of man" meaning a human DANIEL 7
yeshaubensar 3 months ago
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yeshaubensar 3 months ago
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PROOF 5 OF TRINITY
TORAH- Note: the book of Daniel is under Writings in the Jewish Torah
Daniel 7:13 “In my vision at night I looked, and there before me was one like a son of man,[a] coming with the clouds of heaven. He approached the Ancient of Days and was led into his presence."
yeshaubensar 3 months ago
BOTH ARE USELESS FOOLS, THE RABBI KNOWS VERSES IN THE TORAH THAT PROVE GOD IS A TRINITY, WHILE THE CHRISTIAN MAN DOESEN'T EVEN KNOW HIS OWN BIBLE WHICH INCLUDES THE OS.
yeshaubensar 3 months ago
This totally reminds me of the debate between Colbert and Steve Carell. Very intense stuff.
VoltageGlitz 3 months ago
What is the meaning of Zecheriah 2:10-11? “Shout and be glad, O Daughter of Zion. For I am coming, and I will live among you,” declares the LORD. “Many nations will be joined with the LORD in that day and will become my people. I will live among you and you will know that the LORD Almighty has sent me to you.
IndianaJesusfreak 3 months ago
With all due respect to Dr. Craig, It's interesting that he is a research professor of Philosophy, and is also the author of "Philosophical Foundations for a Christian Worldview". The Bible says "Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit". So where is his trinity doctrine expressly explained in the Bible?
ltucker9 3 months ago in playlist Religion - Trinity and it's origins
Bla bla bla bla, what a waste of time.. at this time in human history we should be over religion, listening to two theists banging their respective holy books in eachothers' heads is just embarrasing and sad for them... But should, in reality, be a mightly army for the more enligthened atheists - I mean: how can you listen to such a babble and still believe that scripture actually should be taken seriously?
Andersxman 3 months ago
@Andersxman If it's such a 'waste of time' and so stupid for people to listen to theists 'babbling' on about theology why are You watching? -___- It seems odd for someone with such an opinion to listen to videos like this and take the time to write a comment.
HerGlassBones94 3 months ago
It's in Genesis 1:26 "Lets 'us' make man in our image" Genesis 3:22 "Behold man has become like on of 'us'..." key word "US"
Law19157 3 months ago
@Law19157 The hebrew bible does not say "us", that is a King James addition
KnottPatriot 3 months ago
@KnottPatriot It was translated 'us' form the original language
Law19157 3 months ago
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@Law19157 The hebrew bible does not say "us", that is a King James addition
KnottPatriot 3 months ago
At least they debate in a civil manner and while these guys can debate, apparently Dawkins cannot debate either one of them. I may not be xtian but Craig does debate well and I think so does Singer. Odd how Dawkins runs and hides from both these guys
DarkQuietWyattON 3 months ago
Since God gives the Tree as Three Forms, the Tree, the Fruit, the Seed, and does not bother to name other parts, God gives the Essential Revelation of the Tree of Life in the Garden of Eden, which if anyone eats of it, they will live forever, suggesting a "perpetual motion machine" .Then Moses codifies the notion of the Metaphor of the Tree of Life with the sight of the "Burning Bush" where within that tree, having fruit and seed, that God Himself is actively appearing within a Trinity.
CarmineFragione 3 months ago
Genesis One gives us the Tree as Three Essential Forms of One Concept, the Tree comes with it's own Fruit, with it's own Seed. So which is the whole concept of the Tree ? The other parts, such as bark, leaves, sap, trunk, branches, are not named in the Genesis Creation as essential, but that there is a type of plant that has it's fruit, and in it the seed that repetitively restores the plant over and over in a verbal sense of the Entity in Motion , God gives us the idea of the Trinity.
CarmineFragione 3 months ago
The Tree of Life is given as a metaphor for God showing a verbal sense of three forms that recycle the issue of the tree. God in Genesis 1 gives the Tree with the Fruit, with the Seed in the Fruit, as Three Concepts in a Unity, a tri-unity, or Trinity, being a Verb title to a single Entity that can move or change by appearance. The Tree gives the Fruit, the Fruit gives the Seed, the Seed restores the Tree, over and over, a Process a Verb sense of Naming God as a doer of deeds. 3=1
CarmineFragione 3 months ago
The Rabbi is not telling the whole story. Genesis 22 Abraham as the Father, Isaac as the Son, gathered at Mount Moriah to fulfill God's Word, to make a Sacrifice. Then the Holy Spirit as a third person in the Gathering, the Angel of the Lord, appeared to spare the Father and Son, with the Substitute Offering. So the collective of Three Persons in a Unity to Offer Sacrifice, Father, Son, Holy Ghost, appeared , and is why Jews offer Three Worships, to show Three Gathered in the Unity
CarmineFragione 3 months ago
The Tree is not the end in itself, The Entity is more than the Tree. The Tree appears and bears Fruit, The Fruit appears and bears the Seed, the Seed falls and raises up the Tree. This is a Trinity of appearances, but the whole concept is not the Tree, not the Fruit, not the Seed, but all Three in a Process, A Mystery in Motion , God is giving as Father, the Father is giving as Son, the Son is giving as Holy Spirit, Thus God is the Trinity of Three Persons, but they are One
CarmineFragione 3 months ago
"As far as the New Testament is concerned one does not find in it an actual doctrine of the Trinity" (Bernard Lohse,)
Szygyify 3 months ago
Premier Evangelical Protestant Trinitarian Millard Erickson states "The doctrine of the Trinity is not clearly or explicitly taught anywhere in Scripture" Robert Bowman Jr. Evangelical Trinitarian Apologist states "Nobody who believes in this doctrine claims they have a full comprehension of it" B.B. Warfield Reformed Theologian states"The Biblical Doctrine of the Trinity is not Biblical, there are no analogies to it in nature, not even in the spiritual nature of man!"
Szygyify 3 months ago
@Szygyify "The Biblical Doctrine of the Trinity is not Biblical" (Warfield) where did you find this quote?
junglehappiness 3 months ago
@junglehappiness B.B.Warfield's essay "The Biblical Doctrine of the Trinity"
Szygyify 3 months ago
@Szygyify So in an essay entitled "the Biblical doctrine of the Trinity" he says that it is not biblical? I have that essay. The actual quote is "The term "Trinity" is not a Biblical term".
Why did you lie about the quote to prove your point?
junglehappiness 3 months ago
@junglehappiness I want everyone who does have the opportunity to read the essay to make the judgement themselves about B.B. Warfield's very devastating and revelatory information on the very unbiblical language employed and the doctrines inherent subjectivity. Let the readers make a decision about the information not you! Apparently you have a horse on this race.
Szygyify 3 months ago
@Szygyify I mentioned B.B. Warfield because I think that he is a Liar! His whole essay suffers from cognitive dissonance. It is filled with anachronisms and wild eyed theological assumptions, he affirms and denies his pro-Trinitarian position simultaneously and my overall position is that The Old Testament does not teach this mysterious doctrine. Are you a TULIP Calvinist? because your issue with me seems to be with Warfield alone? Did you cross check me on the other quotes also?
Szygyify 3 months ago
@junglehappiness Since you do have access to that essay cross check me on these quotes "It is a plain matter of fact that none who have depended on the revelation embodied in the Old Testament alone have ever attained to the doctrine of the Trinity" and "The mystery of the Trinity is not revealed in the Old Testament". What Testament do you think Jesus was teaching his disciples from?
Szygyify 3 months ago
@junglehappiness "Because the Trinity is such an important part of later Christian doctrine, it is striking that the term does not appear in the NT. Likewise the developed concept of three coequal partners in the Godhead found in later creedal formulations cannot be clearly detected within the confines of the canon" (Oxford Companion to the Bible, ed. Bruce Metzger, OUP, 1993, p. 782).
Szygyify 3 months ago
@junglehappiness "Theologians agree that the New Testament also does not contain an explicit doctrine of the Trinity" (Encyclopedia of Religion, Vol. 15, p. 54). "The ancients made a wrong use of [John 10:30, "I and the Father are one"] to prove that Christ is...of the same essence with the Father. For Christ does not argue about the unity of substance, but about the agreement that he has with the Father" (John Calvin, Commentary on John).
Szygyify 3 months ago
@junglehappiness "Paul habitually differentiates Christ from God" (C.J. Cadoux, A Pilgrim’s Further Progress, pp. 40, 42). "Paul never equates Jesus with God" (W.R. Matthews, The Problem of Christ in the 20th Century, Maurice Lectures, p. 22).
Szygyify 3 months ago
@junglehappiness "On the whole the New Testament, like the Old, speaks of the Holy Spirit as a divine energy or power" (W.E. Addis and Thomas Arnold, A Catholic Dictionary, 1960, p. 810). "The third Person was asserted at a Council of Alexandria in 362...and finally by the Council of Constantinople of 381" (A Catholic Dictionary, p. 812). Cross check me on these quotes also besides B.B. Warfield.
Szygyify 3 months ago
@junglehappiness "The Presbyterian clergy are loudest, the most intolerant of all sects, the most tyrannical, and ambitious; ready at the word of the lawgiver, if such a word could be now obtained, to put the torch to the pile, and to rekindle the flames in which their oracle Calvin consumed the poor Servetus, because he could not fathom the proposition which has demonstrated that three are one, and one is three". Thomas Jefferson 3rd Persident of the U.S.
Szygyify 3 months ago
@junglehappiness "I can never join Calvin in addressing his god. He was indeed an Atheist, which I can never be; or rather his religion was Daemonism. If ever man worshipped a false god, he did. The being described in his 5 points is not the god whoom you and I acknowledge and adore, the Creator and benevolent and governor of the world, but a daemon of malignant spirit. It would be more pardonable to believe in no god at all, then to blaspheme him by the atrocious attributes of Calvin." Ibid.
Szygyify 3 months ago
@Szygyify Wait...ok I am Jewish. Are you saying Calvin was not xtian. Not arguing, just asking
DarkQuietWyattON 3 months ago
CarmineFragione's views are interesting because his mystical/ paradoxical analogies gives one a clear insight as to the state of mind one must have to come to terms with Trinitarian metaphysics, a system of thought completely foreign and toxic to the Bible.
Szygyify 3 months ago
@Szygyify @Szygyify Okay. There's no way I can reply to that in one go. Quoting people who disagree with the trinity, calvin, and presbytirianism is a moot point. No matter what you believe, I could quote people who disagree. However, some of the quotes are laughable: "paul never equates Jesus with God" see Titus 1:1 where Jesus is names our God and Saviour as just 1 example
junglehappiness 3 months ago
@junglehappiness Less barking and more biting ok?
Szygyify 3 months ago
Wow will Craig needs ti study his Jewish roots. Everything in the Hebrew bible points to Christ. lev 23 says the feasts given are yaweh s. U soon find out Christ fullfilled the first 4 feasts on the very day yaweh said that day was set aside for his feast. He claimed to b the living water at the water livation ceremony. He claimed to be the light of the world when Jerusalem was named the light of the world for yom kippour
mumswording 4 months ago
And what "image", prey-tell, is that? Not to sound crass, but shouldn't we have 3 heads? "Our Image" doesnt mean 3. It means 2. Read John 17: 3. Where's the H.S.? Also John 17:21. Be brave & consider how much of life is interwoven by "2" vs. three interconnected composits. Also read Romans 1:20 with a discerning mind and the absolute "2" will come to life.
Sorry.. Trinity belief is the sacred cow of Christianity. Wake up before you die in your sleep.
Trinity is Satan's crown.
microvantastic 4 months ago
Three in One is simple ... Gen 1:26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: ... we were made in *their* image, they are: Father, Son, Holy Spirit and we are body, soul and spirit. They are three in One, we are three in one.
B1u3zzz 4 months ago
Again. This is all conjecture searching for concensus. You gave no text to prove your point. Remember...In the beginning was the (SPOKEN) "word" Yha --not the written. Yha is the only person by that covenant identity who is an absolute WITHIN HIMSELF --self existing. Beside Him there is no savior. Yes Yha-oshua is divine, but he is the son
Please show me even where the title "god" comes from. No righteous origin. From Trent it's clear to see that the whole Christian gospel is catholic.
microvantastic 4 months ago
A King has a prescribed behavior when he sits on the Throne, by the Law of the Throne. But when the King goes home to his own kids, they jump all over the King and beat him up, and the King is reduced to one of the kids, by his behavior. And then , when the King goes to be with the Queen, again the King is another Person of Interest, by the conditions of the behavior a man has with a woman. So God is the Father, is the Son , is the Holy Ghost, based on Works God Wills to do.
CarmineFragione 4 months ago
God begins with a Mind, In the Mind of God, God determines He will Create the World . For what reason ? God Divines in His mind, to be a Father, but to whom ? Whatever exists, is still only God, for nothing exists outside the Being of God. So God thinks, God will also be the Son, and so the Character of human persons pour out of God, and God sends the Son to be King and experience the good and the bad, life and death and determine the quality of Mercy, a King has as a Holy Spirit.
CarmineFragione 4 months ago
The Letter of the Law and the Spirit of the Law can only be determined by the Trust , wherein more than one person has appeared and behaved so by the terms of the Law and reported their experience. So a Law without a report from those under the Law, to determine the nature of the Graces through the Law, leave a Law nothing more than a Mathematical Theory, having no flesh and blood feelings. So God comes in the flesh to determine the Nature of the Holy Spirit that then Reads the Law.
CarmineFragione 4 months ago
Isnt it strange that it always takes a "3rd" person to explain trinity?
3 people in one "nature" is a nature of three. Can't you see this is all conjecture?
The more scholars try to define him the more convoluted it bcomes. Satan loves a concensus! I ask you...How does one break the 1st commandment?? Faith in "ONE' god isnt enough. Which "one" god is it? "Lord" & "God" are mere titles. Yahshua was the son of Yah. It's all about 2. How much simpler could it be?
BOTH ARE WRONG.
microvantastic 4 months ago
@microvantastic you are not quite right, because when Father and Son make a Covenant Agreement, then the Power of the Agreement takes preference over any future desires of the Father or the Son. So, the Incorporation of the Law is then not a Dictate by God, but a Covenant Experience that worked it's Way through the Patriarchs who responded to God , who appeared by various ways, and now appears fully in Christ as the Incarnation of the Word, that came of the Trust between Father and Son.
CarmineFragione 4 months ago
Presenting Abrahamic theology as though it is serious philosophy is similar to polishing a turd.
Sinnessa 4 months ago
any one can be a hebrew but not everyone can be from the tribes of israel. It a blood relationship and covenents from god to them. Gentiles have to find there own way to god from the teachings of abraham.
MegaVladimir1988 4 months ago
people mistake hebrew with israel
MegaVladimir1988 4 months ago
God the Father is masculine to show the absolute rule of the Law and Judgment. but God then brings the Moon, as the softer side of God, as the Sun burns hot, the Moon is cool. God gives the Holy Spirit as an Eve, to Adam, a Suffering Servant, which then is not a man but a woman, and she serves her husband , but does not carry Torah and is not judged by the same judgment. So, in real Judaism, to be a child or woman is a good excuse to plea bargain with God, Thus the Sacrifice.
CarmineFragione 4 months ago
Dr. Craig said the Christians really have no "Knowledge" of God, but merely acting on Faith to respond to the Salvation and the Sacrifice, which concludes God accepting the terms as God would for the children and the women , but not for the "Man of Sin" For the Rabbi who says he really knows the Law, he must be held "Guilty" for "INTENTIONAL SIN" and what sacrifice can be for him, except the guilt be upon his head and he dies for his sin. Christianity is about Grace and the Woman.
CarmineFragione 4 months ago
"The Just shall live by Faith" this is a test of the spirit of the mind of the man, to see by the shear telling of a Faith Story credited to God, if the man's heart can be pricked open to expose he still has the Innocence of the child God made the man to be. If the man is evil ,twisted and laughs at the idea of God sending His own Son to die in your place, that you might turn your life around, if the ever idea of this Powerful Story, means nothing to you, it might mean you are already dead.
CarmineFragione 4 months ago
God comes to tell a man a story, and the story needs not be real, but the story telling is the TEST of the man it is told to. If you react with a prick in your heart, and you are humbled, then God sees you are still God's son. But if you laugh at the whole idea of the story , God may have already damned your soul . God said God loved Jacob , but hated Esau. God is the Story Teller, and God wants to see how you react, if you are alive to God or already dead to God. So Jesus is beautiful
CarmineFragione 4 months ago
The Trinity is just a compaction on the concept of TRI- UNITY. God is not a fixture, God's Being is able to play out the passion of every human being ever lived and feel their lives as if God was there living the life, and God is there in each person living that life, and that is why God knows everyone. God became the Father to His Son and sent the Holy Spirit like a Mother to buffer the bitterness of the Law and Judgment of hard cold facts. God is Author, Actor and Stage, all in One
CarmineFragione 4 months ago
A truly evil man cannot have a child like faith in Jesus dying for his sins, he would laugh at that , and that is exactly how God measures the man, to see whose sins are intentional and whose sins God can count as UNINTENTIONAL And apply forgiveness. God said " I shall have mercy upon whom I shall have mercy" So there requires an honesty of integrity , a degree of Innocence left in the man , who can believe the Gospel, and so if the man does believe the son is still alive to the Father.
CarmineFragione 4 months ago
God can judge a man who is a believer in Jesus, by the child like nature that is required for such Faith as Real, and so God does not forgive a man whose sins were intentional, and God forgives someone whose sins is unintentional, but the mystery is, how does God measure the man ? A man is justified by Faith , and then God already forgave the sin as unintentional, and yes Leviticus was about unintentional sins, because who among us really understands God's Law or our own selves ? Faith Works
CarmineFragione 4 months ago
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jesus said the father is greater than I, jesus never said he was God,
jesus said at John 5 : 18,19 that he cannot do anything by his own initiative. he also said why do you call me
good? . jesus also reffered to his father Jehovah as his God 5 times in Rev 3:12, he was
no longer in the flesh when mentioned these words. jesus also said that he does
not know the day or the hour, well wait a minute is he God or not ,
there is no such thing as" in between". do you want more? 45 years exp
RAMIREZ3408 4 months ago
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The trinity is a false doctrine made by false teachers. The fact that the teachers say the trinity is a mystery proves it all the more!
1 Timothy 1:7 They want to be teachers of the law, but they do not know what they are talking about or what they so confidently affirm.
YouNeedNot 4 months ago
Is The Trinity doctrine supposedly true, because explains why God need to be three different persons in one in order to perform different tasks although he is allmighty?
Toggen62 4 months ago
I agree with Rabbi Singer on the concept of G-d. G-d cannot be divided into a Trinity or one G-d and three persons or become a man.
RomanticRebel267 4 months ago
@RomanticRebel267 you have sinned against the Sovereign God and His prior Election to be as He wishes. God agreed to "forget your sins" ? How can an Eternal God, forget your sins ? Unless God is willing by His own passion, His Free Will, to lower Himself from Eternal Proportions, to become human in thinking, then God by no means can ever forgive you or forget your sins. Can a Leopard change it's spots ? the Material Being cannot be another Person, but the Spirit can be any Person
CarmineFragione 4 months ago
@RomanticRebel267 you have sinned against the Sovereign God and His prior Election to be as He wishes. God agreed to "forget your sins" ? How can an Eternal God, forget your sins ? Unless God is willing by His own passion, His Free Will, to lower Himself from Eternal Proportions, to become human in thinking, then God by no means can ever forgive you or forget your sins. Can a Leopard change it's spots ? the Material Being cannot be another Person, but the Spirit can be any Person
CarmineFragione 4 months ago
@CarmineFragione There are numerous of verses in the Hebrew bible that describe G-d forgiving sins through prayer and charity.
RomanticRebel267 4 months ago
@RomanticRebel267 But how does God Justify forgiving one man his sins and yet holding another man guilty ? The Bible says the Lord loved Jacob but hated Esau. So, your idea is incomplete as explaining how God comes to the determination that a man's sins is UNINTENTIONAL , like a woman in beguilement, and so The Sacrifice Covers the Sin, and then another man's sins are INTENTIONAL, and God hates that man. You cannot equivocate to just say God will forgive just anyone, more is needed.
CarmineFragione 4 months ago
@CarmineFragione You would have to understand what the law says about atonement and how atonement can be used to forgive sins. Christians and Jews have different views of atonement for sin.
RomanticRebel267 4 months ago
@RomanticRebel267 Atonement is for "unintentional sins" What makes the difference between a guilt of sin that is intentional or unintentional ? Men were considered trained in the Law and could sin against the Law. But the women and children were separated by Grace, so their sins cannot be legally guilty as intentional. So that Jesus dying for the sins of the many, if the Church is Feminine, as the Woman and the Christians are children to God, then all their sins are forgiven by the Blood.
CarmineFragione 4 months ago
@RomanticRebel267 You can show me in Genesis, where Adam died for his sin , but you cannot show me where Eve died for her sin. She was to suffer in child birth, yes, and that equates the nature of the Holy Spirit to a feminine, a Moon, as opposed to the Sun and it's Wrathful Fire, concept. Eve never died , and so though she disobeyed God, she had only learned the Law by her husband who leavened the Law " Do not even touch" which was not God's Law, and so she was "Beguiled" not Guilty.
CarmineFragione 4 months ago
@RomanticRebel267 Jeremiah 31:22 " The Lord will create a new thing on earth- a woman shall surround the man" When God saw the Law was ended, as in Lamentations 2:9 "The Law is no more" God then had the Grace of His Holy Spirit, which was surrounding the case of women and children, not the man, but then God made the New Covenant to Jeremiah, and it ends up being the matter of the Woman surrounding the guilty man, sort of like " Hiding behind your mother's apron strings" Salvation.
CarmineFragione 4 months ago
The book of Hebrews twisted the words of the prophet whom it claims to be quoting. Whereas Jeremiah 31:31 states "I was a husband unto them (the Jews)," Paul reverses Jeremiah's prophecy to read, "I disregard them." How can Paul disregard the words of Jeremiah? how could he so fragrantly change the work of G-d? God's bond with Jeremiah 31:31 is intimately portrayed as a betrothed woman, which is precisely the opposite relationship om Hebrews 8:9, where the Jews are cast as rejected people.
RomanticRebel267 4 months ago
When a man dreams, he has a Divine Nature akin to God. The Mind surrounds the Dream, and indwells the dream at the same time. One can begin by feeling like only an observer, hovering over a landscape. Then one sees their own self and then they move into that person and their point of view changes from hovering to being in a body to witness all the people, places and things of the dream. Which shows a mere man can be the Author , can be an Actor and also be observing Himself in a dream
CarmineFragione 4 months ago
The Trinity is the most basic notion of the Ancient Story Teller, which is how the Bible was written to be read aloud. One Being, the Priest, would read all the Scripture and act as the Divine God , to separate by Talents out to the characters of persons in the stories, by using a mask or altering his voice, as a method to let the Audience know who is saying what and where and when, while all the time , there is only the Author/ Actor/ Narrator serving everything needed God is Divine
CarmineFragione 4 months ago
The God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob has a name, his name is YHWH. He is the God of the Hebrew Scriptures, he is ONE GOD, hence the word Monotheism. Whereas the surrounding nations in the Ancient Near East and all non Judaic religions across the world worship(ed) past and present Triune Godheads,Polytheism. There are no "real" or "fake" trinities in Judaism nor in the teachings of Jesus Christ who claimed only to be the son of GOD YHWH not YHWH himself.
Szygyify 4 months ago
no matter how many variations you can find of a "trinity" it does not prove that the true God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob is the real Trinity
chazbriggs 4 months ago
Lane Craig doesn't believe in the Hebrew Scriptures because the ONLY Creator God spoken of there is YHWH. YHWH is one! Not 3 in 1! Craig only relies on the New Testament and reads into it an apriori Trinintarian perspective. He is in truth a Marcionite who abandons Jewish Monotheism in favor of a Platonic Trinitarianism that abandons YHWH' s name for the Platonic nameless "GOD" and in turn conflates the identity of the son Jesus with that of YHWH. Turning Jesus into something he never claimed!
Szygyify 4 months ago
Sumerian Trinity: An-Enlil-Ea/ Egyptian Trinity: Horus-Osiris-Isis/ Syrian Trinity: Aglibol-Baal-Shamin-Malakbel/Hindu Trinity: Brahma-Vishnu-Shiva/Buddhist Trinity: Nirmanakaya-Sambhogaya-Dharmakaya/Taoist Trinity:Tien-You-Jen/Zoroastrian Trinity: Ahura Mazda-Mithra-Anahita/Arabic Trinity Al-il-Lat,Al-Uzza, Al-Lat/ Orphic Trinity:Phanes-Ouranos-Kronos.
Szygyify 4 months ago
Plato's Trinity: Hoen (The One)-Nous (The Ideas of Hoen)-Pneuma(The Spirit or World Soul)/ Philo's (Middle Platonic) Trinity: Hoen(The One)-Logos(The Ideas or Wisdom of Hoen)-Pneuma(The Spirit or World Soul) Logos existed first as a thought of Hoen then as a real being, Plotinus' (Neo Platonic) Trinity: Hoen(The One)-Nous (The Ideas )-Pneuma(The Spirit) Nous eternally generated from Hoen.
Szygyify 4 months ago
Islam is the ONLY non christian faith that believes in Jesus
855842 4 months ago
@855842 thats wrong, Gnostism, New agers, Witches, Satanist, and some Atheist believe in Jesus.
stevelovesgod 4 months ago
@stevelovesgod OK let me reword it..Islam is the ONLY non christian religion that believes that Jesus is the Messiah also believes in his miraculous birth also believes he will return at the end of times to kill the Antichrist in which you follow...
God is 1
855842 4 months ago
"Doctrine of the trinity is not found in any document or relic belonging to the Church of the first three centuries. They testify... to the supremacy of the Father, the only true God, and to the inferior and derived nature of the Son. There is nowhere among these remains a coequal trinity... no undivided three... coequal, infinite, self-existent, and eternal. This was a conception to which the age had not arrived. It was of later origin."
('The Church of the First Three Centuries')
HeroOfChristArchives 4 months ago
"Today, however, scholars generally agree that there is no doctrine of the trinity as such in either the Old Testament or the New Testament."
('Harper-Collins Encyclopedia of Catholicism', 1995 ed.)
"The formulation 'one God in three persons' was not solidly established, certainly not fully assimilated into Christian life and its profession of faith, prior to the end of the 4th century."
('The New Catholic Encyclopedia', 1967 ed.)
HeroOfChristArchives 4 months ago
Not only is the doctrine of the trinity nonsensical, it's most startlingly unbiblical.
"The word trinity is not found in the Bible...."
"(The dogma) did not find a place formally in the theology of the church till the 4th century."
"....it is not a biblical doctrine in the sense that any formation of it can be found in the Bible...."
"Scripture does not give us a formulated doctrine of the trinity...."
('New Bible Dictionary', 1982 ed.)
HeroOfChristArchives 4 months ago
Good video. Rabbi Tovia Singer is a huge inspiration for me in my Jewish faith. I'm very conservative and traditional in my views on Judaism. I like how Rabbi Tovia debates with Christians. Question and learn to see what others have to say. I will always stick by my guns but respect others who have different views then I do.
RomanticRebel267 4 months ago
@yngnikko90 Second while Scripture does not use the Trinity, the Trinity (along with the incarnation) is the foundation of the NT. It guides the NT. The NT can be summed up as "Jesus is Lord." Christianity can be summed up that way. The Holy Spirit is another counselor like Jesus according to John's gospel. Both are personal and do things and have attributes that only God has. For instance scripture is clear there is only one Lord. God. And Jesus is lord.
MrBlackhaw 5 months ago
@yngnikko90 First it does not contradict monotheism because God is one. He is one God. That is monotheism. Maybe it contradicts a strict monotheism but that is a different story. But no if you have one God then you have monotheism.
MrBlackhaw 5 months ago
I see that we have a Jesuit commenting on this video who is using multiple troll accounts to create the allusion that others are agreeing with his/her stances. I never thought I would witness Christians using manipulative debating tactics, but I realize that the Jesuits are paid handsomely to maintain the status quo. They know they can't lawfully burn us at the stake, so they undertake a cyberspace inquisition. Fortunately, few on YouTube are gullible enough to buy into their dogmatic tautology.
HeroOfChristArchives 5 months ago
The Story Teller begins by Narrating to set the stage for the Story He is telling. He narrates in the Third Person , speaking about people places and things . When the Story Teller say God is about to appear a speak out, then the Story Teller is using the "Second Person Tense" as introducing the main Character, God, . Then the same Story Teller, using his Voice a little more royally, then speaks the Quotations of God, in the First Person Tense, so that God is directly speaking out.
CarmineFragione 5 months ago
Anyone who ever had a dream, so real and vivid, with all sorts of people places and things, and while beginning with a sense of hovering over the dream, when one sees the self in the dream, the sense of intimate feeling of your own identity awakens in that person , and you become that person with a material feeling and seeing the world around as a person inside the person who is having this Divine Moment of behaving as God does cause the world to appear and God appears in it as well.
CarmineFragione 5 months ago
A Divine Being, means One Substantive Being, say a Human Being, corporal , incorporation by many elements that work together as a Set Unity, and then the Mind separates powers, say to drive the Car, while one thinks about family affairs, and the other part of the Mind is controlling the heart and respiration. If an emergency appears while driving, the divided focus unites in strength to maintain control. So we are able as a being, live multiple lives as unique persons or gather as one
CarmineFragione 5 months ago
Ephesians 4:9 "What does "he ascended " mean except that he also descended to the lower regions ? He who descended is the very one who ascended higher that all the heavens, in order to fill out whole universe" Paul is being Mystical about the Creation being God's Dream World. God is having a Dream, the world appears for His Pleasure, we are all in it, and BEHOLD, God the Creator has the power to surround the world to keep it sustained as real, and then also appear in His Dream as Himself.
CarmineFragione 5 months ago
The Greek Drama accepted that a singular Being of the Author who is also the only Actor on the stage. having then a Divine Literary Power to play out all parts, seeing the Author owns the story and all it's subjects are coming out of his own mind. Then the sole Actor merely changes his VOICE or puts on a MASK ( Persona in Latin means "he wears a mask" ) and by this Divine Power the same One Being, becomes many different Persons, and plays out all the essential parts of the story by Himself.
CarmineFragione 5 months ago
God is the Only Existence, and tells the story in the method of the Ancient Story Teller, who uses Himself as the sole Being, but brings out of Himself three distinct Persons of Character to speak the story so the people who hear can understand. The Being as the Story Teller, Is the Narrator in the Third Person speaking of people, places and things, to give them life. Then the Story Teller announces Himself in the Second Person, and then the God, moves to speak in the First Person Tense.
CarmineFragione 5 months ago
@yngnikko90 The doctrine of the TRinity teaches that there is only one God. Do not make a strawman to rebutt. The Trinity is God in one nature (one God) in three persons or subsistences. So it does not contradict the Shema.
MrBlackhaw 5 months ago
Ok, so you want to say one, Jesus is God, there is this trinity, and you will not have salvation without taking Jesus as God. Yet if it is so important, that why would Jesus not of said it once, not once. Let alone it being the most important thing, if so why would it not be said not only just once but 100 or more times. Yet not once, not once, not once... So why? Why does Jesus never say I am God?
ASexyChef 5 months ago