Regardless of whether or not Hugo inflicts big damage, he's still low tier. Sure, he dishes out damage really well, but he hardly ever gets the opportunities needed to inflict said damage, especially against, characters like Chun, Ken, & Makoto. Most of the cast can keep him at bay with any kind of good spacing tool (i.e., air fireball, anti-air fireball, long-range pokes, etc.). Also, where outside of PinoAB7 and Sugiyama do you see Necro raping?! Umm...nowhere.
Certainly not in the U.S. Furthermore, according to what you said, even Sean can be exceptional. That's...ridiculous. lol I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but Sean can NEVER be exceptional. He was, literally, designed to be the antithesis of exceptional. Like E.Philosophy said, when you've got a situation where two players are of the same caliber the one using the higher tier is generally always the victor. Last year, @ SBO, Shiroitachi's Makoto beat RX's Urien pretty hands down...
..., which is a huge freakin' deal. RX is the best Urien in the world, and good though he may be Shiroitachi is not the best Makoto in the world. There is just so much stuff that Makoto has that Urien (and below) simply cannot deal with well. This is true for ALL of the top-tier characters, which is why they're top-tier to begin with. I don't really understand your position. Either you don't really know that much about the game, or you simply like playing Devil's Advocate. Which is it???
There is a WORLD of difference between saying (for example), "I see Q raping all the time," and saying, "I see Kuroda's Q raping all the time." Just because you see one particular player's low-tier character winning a lot doesn't mean you see that low-tier character winning a lot. There are always going to be exceptions to every rule, and players like Kuroda, RX, Sugiyama, Hayao, and KSK ARE those exceptions. Don't mix up your facts.
Remy has low defense/offense, so a BIG part of his gameplay involves spamming high & low LOVs to trip up enemies. Remy just cannot combo/rush down unless there's a big opening in the opponent's defense, or if the opponent is in the corner.
Q is really only good on defense and on the counterattack, while Sean is bottom-tier in 3S as he was totally nerfed from Double Impact.
Twelve's options are also really limited - not many opportunities for combos or even high damage, he's mostly limited to building meter/hit-&-run. Plus, a lot of his moves are too weak, not very useful, and are easily punishable. Pit a pro-level Twelve vs. a pro-level Elena for example, and you'll see what I mean.
Hugo naturally has a lot of moves that are punishable, what with him being a big slow grappler. He's not that slow, but you still have to use his moves wisely.
I've also heard that Necro is pretty low on the list, too. I haven't seen too many Necro fights, so I couldn't tell you for certain.
But these are just a few examples. There are many other things about 3S that show just how far away the tiers are from each other.
Third Strike is unbalanced only because the characters themselves are poorly balanced. Granted, skill level will always be more important than tiers, but when you play the game for a while, you begin to notice things.
Example: look at why the top-tiers in Third Strike are at the top - insanely high priority on their normals, REALLY long chain combos, and ridiculously powerful super moves.
A lot of the other characters are hard pressed to match that.
I thought KOF X1 was balanced. Attacks could be countered or cancelled within reason even with stock gauges. Rumble Fish seems a tight series as well with similiar game-play. Be nice if it came state-side but I doubt it. I also notice the theme companies are doing of stripping released 2D fighters of much of their story lines. (Accent-core, cough.)
Sorry, but that game is broken to pieces. Watch some high-level matches & you'll see what I'm talking about.
-It has a crappy judgment system that favors large chain-combos, & other bullshit tactics over actual skill. Judgment kicks in when the time runs out, and it only, and I mean ONLY registers combo hits. So basically, if time is running out & you wanna win, just do a really big combo or a lot of small ones to turn the judgment system in your favor.
-The game's damage scaling is almost nonexistent, and it usually kicks in at all the wrong moments, like at the very start of a combo, the very end of a combo, or even when a move hits out of the blue.
-The gameplay focuses WAY too much on chain combos. Most moves do so little damage that it's often difficult to deal any kind of major damage without chain combos, which really limits your fighting strategy. Also, there are no aerial defensive mechanics, which is a BIG problem since KOF XI's combo system revolves largely around mid-air juggles. Provided you know how (and have enough meter), you can juggle the opponent for a big combo or even a near-infinite.
-The skill meter system worsens the combo-centric gameplay by allowing you to do ridiculously huge tag combos which (because of the near-total lack of damage scaling) deal far too much damage to your opponents.
-Dreamcancels are the final nail in the coffin. Use these to put the finishing touches on your already-broken combo in order to devastate your opponent! But seriously, combos that end with a Dreamcancel usually inflict 50-60% damage. (Oftentimes more than that, depending on the combo)
I am a big fan of KoF XI. I don't really play it competitively (who does in the US...lol), but I really enjoy the casual aspect. However, I absolutely, 100% HAVE to agree with your points, Enig. Every, single thing you said was completely true, and you even made it a point to explain why. There isn't a thing you said that hasn't been proven time and again by high-level players. Furthermore, you didn't even say that you didn't like it (though, you might not). You just said it's broken.
Heck, I absolutely LOVE 3rd Strike, but I'll be the first to admit, it's broker than a cherry on prom night! The top-tier is riddled with ridiculous priority normals, hour and a half later links, and unnecessary damage output off of their supers. I just don't think it's fair to sit here and negative rep. you for stating a fact, which is not AT ALL the same as putting a game down -- which you have every right to do, especially for good reason.
Oh yeah, SF3: Third Strike is also pretty unbalanced. But on the plus side, the game engine is actually pretty tactical (what with the slow pace, focus on mind-games and parrying), which really forces you to sharpen your overall skill. And I'm a Remy user, so yeah.
Well, KOF XI does have its good points. Most of the new characters have really interesting designs and are fun to use. Hell, SNK even brought back a few obscure characters with XI, like Duck King, Sho Hayate, Jyazu - even Gai Tendou & Silver from Buriki One made a comeback!
But sadly, even the presence of new characters still can't save KOF XI from being totally unbalanced & broken. It did present some fresh gameplay ideas, but the way SNK executed them totally ruined the gameplay.
yes theyre doing a bad thing stripping GGX of its story line, since its story is very deep and engaging. If they wanted to- they could make a successful anime series easily bt alas one can only dream
its funny how most people look down on big/impressive combos saying "you can't do that in a real match" and I'm witnessing it right here lol. even I do some from time to time...against the CPU of course haha
I don't mind big combos so long as they're balanced. And by balanced, I mean that they aren't like in MVC2: once the first hit lands, they become cheap juggles that are nearly impossible to stop.
Also I hate the combo system in KOFXI: provided you have enough stock/full skill meter, you can cancel specials and supers together to do heavily damaging combos that can wipe out over 50% of your foe's health in no time. Dreamcancels are a good idea, but the way SNK made it totally ruins the gameplay.
I prefer NGBC's engine. You can do combos, but they aren't infinite and you can't chain everything together. A lot of the characters have moves that are meant to chained into or from, & you can go from normal to special to super, and that's it. Heavily damaging? Yes, but if they miss - you're left wide open, and you may even be out a power stock or two.
i agree MVC2 is too easy, hence why i wanted something with the flash bt with deep gameplay, and guilty gear x answered my prayers the best fighting game in existence
Through the magic of cel shading, I'd say. I was playing this today and the characters look drawn but they're using 3D models with drawn-on skins, which I guess can be altered easily.
How do you unlock the Motorcycle Boy?
ElSingario 3 years ago
Regardless of whether or not Hugo inflicts big damage, he's still low tier. Sure, he dishes out damage really well, but he hardly ever gets the opportunities needed to inflict said damage, especially against, characters like Chun, Ken, & Makoto. Most of the cast can keep him at bay with any kind of good spacing tool (i.e., air fireball, anti-air fireball, long-range pokes, etc.). Also, where outside of PinoAB7 and Sugiyama do you see Necro raping?! Umm...nowhere.
AegisNeglector 3 years ago
Certainly not in the U.S. Furthermore, according to what you said, even Sean can be exceptional. That's...ridiculous. lol I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but Sean can NEVER be exceptional. He was, literally, designed to be the antithesis of exceptional. Like E.Philosophy said, when you've got a situation where two players are of the same caliber the one using the higher tier is generally always the victor. Last year, @ SBO, Shiroitachi's Makoto beat RX's Urien pretty hands down...
AegisNeglector 3 years ago
..., which is a huge freakin' deal. RX is the best Urien in the world, and good though he may be Shiroitachi is not the best Makoto in the world. There is just so much stuff that Makoto has that Urien (and below) simply cannot deal with well. This is true for ALL of the top-tier characters, which is why they're top-tier to begin with. I don't really understand your position. Either you don't really know that much about the game, or you simply like playing Devil's Advocate. Which is it???
AegisNeglector 3 years ago
There is a WORLD of difference between saying (for example), "I see Q raping all the time," and saying, "I see Kuroda's Q raping all the time." Just because you see one particular player's low-tier character winning a lot doesn't mean you see that low-tier character winning a lot. There are always going to be exceptions to every rule, and players like Kuroda, RX, Sugiyama, Hayao, and KSK ARE those exceptions. Don't mix up your facts.
AegisNeglector 3 years ago
Remy has low defense/offense, so a BIG part of his gameplay involves spamming high & low LOVs to trip up enemies. Remy just cannot combo/rush down unless there's a big opening in the opponent's defense, or if the opponent is in the corner.
Q is really only good on defense and on the counterattack, while Sean is bottom-tier in 3S as he was totally nerfed from Double Impact.
EnigmaticPhilosophy 3 years ago
Twelve's options are also really limited - not many opportunities for combos or even high damage, he's mostly limited to building meter/hit-&-run. Plus, a lot of his moves are too weak, not very useful, and are easily punishable. Pit a pro-level Twelve vs. a pro-level Elena for example, and you'll see what I mean.
EnigmaticPhilosophy 3 years ago
Hugo naturally has a lot of moves that are punishable, what with him being a big slow grappler. He's not that slow, but you still have to use his moves wisely.
I've also heard that Necro is pretty low on the list, too. I haven't seen too many Necro fights, so I couldn't tell you for certain.
But these are just a few examples. There are many other things about 3S that show just how far away the tiers are from each other.
EnigmaticPhilosophy 3 years ago
Third Strike is unbalanced only because the characters themselves are poorly balanced. Granted, skill level will always be more important than tiers, but when you play the game for a while, you begin to notice things.
Example: look at why the top-tiers in Third Strike are at the top - insanely high priority on their normals, REALLY long chain combos, and ridiculously powerful super moves.
A lot of the other characters are hard pressed to match that.
EnigmaticPhilosophy 3 years ago
I thought KOF X1 was balanced. Attacks could be countered or cancelled within reason even with stock gauges. Rumble Fish seems a tight series as well with similiar game-play. Be nice if it came state-side but I doubt it. I also notice the theme companies are doing of stripping released 2D fighters of much of their story lines. (Accent-core, cough.)
nightsavior1 4 years ago
KOF XI? Balanced?
Sorry, but that game is broken to pieces. Watch some high-level matches & you'll see what I'm talking about.
-It has a crappy judgment system that favors large chain-combos, & other bullshit tactics over actual skill. Judgment kicks in when the time runs out, and it only, and I mean ONLY registers combo hits. So basically, if time is running out & you wanna win, just do a really big combo or a lot of small ones to turn the judgment system in your favor.
EnigmaticPhilosophy 4 years ago
-The game's damage scaling is almost nonexistent, and it usually kicks in at all the wrong moments, like at the very start of a combo, the very end of a combo, or even when a move hits out of the blue.
EnigmaticPhilosophy 4 years ago
-The gameplay focuses WAY too much on chain combos. Most moves do so little damage that it's often difficult to deal any kind of major damage without chain combos, which really limits your fighting strategy. Also, there are no aerial defensive mechanics, which is a BIG problem since KOF XI's combo system revolves largely around mid-air juggles. Provided you know how (and have enough meter), you can juggle the opponent for a big combo or even a near-infinite.
EnigmaticPhilosophy 4 years ago
-The skill meter system worsens the combo-centric gameplay by allowing you to do ridiculously huge tag combos which (because of the near-total lack of damage scaling) deal far too much damage to your opponents.
-Dreamcancels are the final nail in the coffin. Use these to put the finishing touches on your already-broken combo in order to devastate your opponent! But seriously, combos that end with a Dreamcancel usually inflict 50-60% damage. (Oftentimes more than that, depending on the combo)
EnigmaticPhilosophy 4 years ago
I am a big fan of KoF XI. I don't really play it competitively (who does in the US...lol), but I really enjoy the casual aspect. However, I absolutely, 100% HAVE to agree with your points, Enig. Every, single thing you said was completely true, and you even made it a point to explain why. There isn't a thing you said that hasn't been proven time and again by high-level players. Furthermore, you didn't even say that you didn't like it (though, you might not). You just said it's broken.
AegisNeglector 3 years ago
Heck, I absolutely LOVE 3rd Strike, but I'll be the first to admit, it's broker than a cherry on prom night! The top-tier is riddled with ridiculous priority normals, hour and a half later links, and unnecessary damage output off of their supers. I just don't think it's fair to sit here and negative rep. you for stating a fact, which is not AT ALL the same as putting a game down -- which you have every right to do, especially for good reason.
AegisNeglector 3 years ago
Oh yeah, SF3: Third Strike is also pretty unbalanced. But on the plus side, the game engine is actually pretty tactical (what with the slow pace, focus on mind-games and parrying), which really forces you to sharpen your overall skill. And I'm a Remy user, so yeah.
EnigmaticPhilosophy 3 years ago
Well, KOF XI does have its good points. Most of the new characters have really interesting designs and are fun to use. Hell, SNK even brought back a few obscure characters with XI, like Duck King, Sho Hayate, Jyazu - even Gai Tendou & Silver from Buriki One made a comeback!
But sadly, even the presence of new characters still can't save KOF XI from being totally unbalanced & broken. It did present some fresh gameplay ideas, but the way SNK executed them totally ruined the gameplay.
EnigmaticPhilosophy 3 years ago
Also, I actually bought KOF XI because I was interested in it at first, but I ended up being pretty disappointed by it.
Like I said before, the game does have its good points, but the unbalance is just so bad that I can't really derive any enjoyment from it.
EnigmaticPhilosophy 3 years ago
yes theyre doing a bad thing stripping GGX of its story line, since its story is very deep and engaging. If they wanted to- they could make a successful anime series easily bt alas one can only dream
sinshenlong 3 years ago
its funny how most people look down on big/impressive combos saying "you can't do that in a real match" and I'm witnessing it right here lol. even I do some from time to time...against the CPU of course haha
Makurou 4 years ago
I don't mind big combos so long as they're balanced. And by balanced, I mean that they aren't like in MVC2: once the first hit lands, they become cheap juggles that are nearly impossible to stop.
Also I hate the combo system in KOFXI: provided you have enough stock/full skill meter, you can cancel specials and supers together to do heavily damaging combos that can wipe out over 50% of your foe's health in no time. Dreamcancels are a good idea, but the way SNK made it totally ruins the gameplay.
EnigmaticPhilosophy 4 years ago
I prefer NGBC's engine. You can do combos, but they aren't infinite and you can't chain everything together. A lot of the characters have moves that are meant to chained into or from, & you can go from normal to special to super, and that's it. Heavily damaging? Yes, but if they miss - you're left wide open, and you may even be out a power stock or two.
EnigmaticPhilosophy 4 years ago
I hate MVC2. you can uppercut an opponent and juggle him easy with down+punch and timing to infinity XD
Makurou 4 years ago
But the thing about MVC2: it's so unbalanced that it's balanced. Every character in the game has at least one cheap move and/or combo to abuse.
EnigmaticPhilosophy 4 years ago
i agree MVC2 is too easy, hence why i wanted something with the flash bt with deep gameplay, and guilty gear x answered my prayers the best fighting game in existence
sinshenlong 4 years ago
How do they pull off the ripped clothes effect in a 2d fighter?
DocIdo 4 years ago
Through the magic of cel shading, I'd say. I was playing this today and the characters look drawn but they're using 3D models with drawn-on skins, which I guess can be altered easily.
KojiroDangerous 4 years ago
nice match... hehehe!
This game looks preety cool
rise3005 5 years ago