Am I the only one that likes the brighter sound of CD's? I have been listening to comparisons of modern CD's to modern vynils and the vynils always sound muffled. Cd's have more attack and brightness. If it's too loud just turn the volume down some... I honestly don't understand, but I genuinely want to. I'm an aspiring producer and sound quality is very important to me. CD's just honestly sound better to me.
@Adema1226 You don't have to over-compress and over-limit the recording to make it sound bright. Don't do this loudness thing, it's a very unpleasant thing. I don't know how to deal with it, too. I did an album for one musician and he responded that he's not satisfied, just because it's not loud enough for him. I did some very hard work with his album, and all he cares about in the end is volume.
@Adema1226 The problem isn't how loud it is, you can just turn the volume down. The problem is that in order to achieve this "loudness" the dynamic range is all compressed.
Imagine if TV did the same, where you have to have the brightest picture you can, but TV has a limit to how bright it can be so you have to start 'turning the black up' until it becomes grey and everything is washed out.
There is no sense in it. Even when I was a DJ in the late 60's, early 70's, the rock stations all had "Stay-Levels" to compress the songs on the fly. Surely the makers of iPods and so forth could put switchable compression in the devices (for listening while jogging or whatever).
I just scored a used 1985 CD of Brothers In Arms. I had forgotten just how good it is. The clarity and detail are startling. Why did they "fix" one of the most popular CD's of all time in the re-release?
@JiveDadson The only remasters I have ever seen that stay true to the originals is the ones before 2000. The 1999 Bowie reissues, and Ozzy's 1994 remasters are how I think remasters should sound. Bought a new remaster of the Rolling Stones classic Exile on Main St. Boy was I disappointed putting that in my car stereo. Everything is sooooooo loud and it drowns out all the instruments. The composition of arranging instruments in the songs is completely drowned out over the loudness.
if you people are sick of this shit, write letters, emails, facebook comments, tweets, or w/e to the record labels. ITS NOT GOING TO STOP UNLESS MANY PEOPLE MAKE THE LABELS AWARE OF YOUR CONCERNS.
this is why i don't listen to music from lady gaga or other crap music that's not music at all. the bands that i buy from now are linkin park, drift less pony club and gorillaz they make music like it should be, crystal clear and not extremely loud from the get go.
@dragkid185 linkin park and gorillaz music is as loud as lady gaga music. And this has nothing to do with the quality of the musician. And gaga's music is, well, musically decent enough. She uses motifs throughout her albums, even of concept.
This is pissing me off...I saw the "CD Hall of Fame", and "CD Hall of Shame"...Okay for Rush, 'Vapor Trails' should be in the "Hall of Shame" for its original master (not the remaster, no, no, no, no, no, the remaster, I've seen how its going to turn out via 'One Little Victory [Remix]', and 'Earthshine [Remix]' and Richard Chycki is fixing that up good!). Then in the "Hall of Fame" should be Rush, 'Counterparts' considering how life like of a sound that album had and the production quality.
Um, actually.... you likely don't know this, but using all capitals actually makes it EASIER for people to read. Seriously... teleprompters, copy, etc. all use capitalization because you can actually process the letters far quicker than upper and lower case.
Don't believe me? Call up any TV studio or Radio station and ask them.
So um... you're hypothesis about this text being hard to read is inaccurate.
@TheDaedalEVE Um, actually... you likely don't know this, but you're wrong. The brain goes on the recognition of the letter forms, rather than reading each word letter by letter, it can scan quicker when there are ascenders, descenders, and the like. When words are in all caps the brain has to work harder to differentiate between letter forms because they are all similar. Teleprompters use caps, to differentiate "read lines" from directional information. Copy uses them to help elements stand out
Interesting... because when I did broadcasting in school (we produced three shows a month that went on local cable, and had an AM radio station) we used all caps for our teleprompters AND copy (all of it, not just key words) because it was easier to read than upper and lower case (that's what we were taught). So my actual life experience contradicts what you're saying.
God I've been trying to explain this to people for ages before seeing this video and others like it! Now I can finally put a name to it and direct people!
Every song I hear these days is so monotone (also not as good as old music but that's another matter)
@AzaIndustries ur judging un entire kind of music by the commercial part of it. listen 2 some electronic music, or hiphop or watever tht isnt on the radio
The thing is with cheap poor quality mini systems that the kids use, there's distortion with any process whether it be brick walled or dynamic so it doesn't
matter so much there. In fact the compressed stuff can atleast sound prominent and punchy on such systems. This is the trouble music is not aimed at those
Really good video that show how awful it is - I almost never listen to mastred music because of this
Commersially produced movies has the same shit - and I cannot even watch one without go mad about the sound. Along with compression and distorsion there is an array other bad things - such as mono on dialog and many sound effects, to low (unrealistic) levels of ambient sounds and to low levels of bass and high frequency (for example vehicle sounds almost always have way to low bass levels).
@ThatDaveDude1 But remember, back in the days music was mastered to be on vinyl. Nowadays the mastering for CD and then bouncing it to vinyl just doesn't sound right.
This has nothing to do with the media (but both vinyl and CD has far higher dynamic range than matred music will ever get close to) - it's simply because they want it loud and doesn't care very much about quality.
For example many people want to get maximum volume out from their mp3-player with weak output (so they then can then sit and destroy their hearing with loud music thru crappy "in ear" headphones, for example on the train - haha).
A digital limiter removes only the inaudible spikes from percussion within the music. Any over limiting would constitute the "crappy sound". This over limiting is brought to you by amateurs. Even when pop or rock music is ltd properly, this is why the audio looks like a shaved caterpillar. Most engineers use multi-band limiting which provides even more nominal signal with a natural sound. These mixes are the ones that appear to be over ltd but still have their dynamic range. There is no war.
@powellmusicplus Records are losing dynamic range and there's all sorts of examples around that can attest to that, take Alice in Chains's newest or Death Magnetic. There's no need to be an apologist for the music industry.
radio noise vomits throw speakers every day in germany. no more dynamics and no more audible difference between music and advertises. sounds all the same. this was the reason why my stereo doesn't play radio anymore. It is confused of the high volume ranges and tells "over! over! oooover!!!" all the time and reacts with continious reducing input level, so I did throw it away without replacing it. My CD records doesn't have such a vomiting sound.
Thanks for presenting this! Compression takes the life out of recorded sound. You won't find anything like this on Telarc or Sony Classical. So what if the average level is louder? If you play it back at a lower level you've lost the quality that makes music sound live.
Isn't it ironic that the high fidelity movement in the 1950s resulted in the better quality recording equipment and improved recording techniques we have today only to be highjacked by the loudness freaks.
No wonder why records are coming back, cause they can never suffer from the loudness wars. Cds were suppose to be the next thing in audio quality and now they sound worse than a crappy old cassette. I swear every thing comes down to the dumb masses who do not know nothing about anything, but for the people who want quality get stuck with what the music industry shoves down our throats. Its hard to like any new music without being turned off by the cd, Give me quality and I will pay for it
No wonder why records are coming back, cause they can never suffer from the loudness wars. Cds were suppose to be the next thing in audio quality and now they sound worse that a crappy old cassette. I swear every thing comes down to the dumb masses who do not know nothing about anything, but for the people who want quality get stuck with what the music industry shoves down our throats. Its hard to like any new music without being turned off by the cd, Give me quality and I will pay for it
Great Video!! Found myself thinnking about the type of music I listen to, and understanding why music allways sounded better in the 80s 90s... I thought It was just I getting older :D But maybe the marketing envolving the music market as something to do it... It feels like the music now is made to sell fast and forget. We are now on the fast music times, just like the fast food, need-buy-listen-forget; need-buy-listen-forget; need-buy-listen-forget; . . .
There I was thinking, my amp. and speakers were crap, constantly pining over a high end setup that I couldn't afford. I now realise that most of my stuff originates from poorly mastered CDs.
This + iPod + Cheap shit headphones that don't have a good ear cup that deaden external sounds = Alot of young kids going deaf early. Simply because loud compressed music fucks your ears and shit headphones (espesh in ear ones) REALLY rattle your drums & bones in your ear 'espesh when you're turning them up to compensate for external noise like passing cars in the street etc...
Invest in a decent pair of headphones, you'll find you listen to music half as loud and you'll save your hearing.
the people responsible for deliberately compressing music should be drug out into the streets and seriously beat to a pulp. FUCK U ASSHOLES! I pay good money for music, not garbage!
Amen. I REFUSE to buy Tracks, or Albums that have been Hard Limited & OVER MASTERED. And the sad thing is.. People are paying for this service! Fucking Mugs! It's the POP culture that has done this.. POP music is Manufactured music that isn't about good music, it's about making one patch sounding really Powerfull by destroying all the Dynamics & Pumping the Volume up.. It's about making a track get as much Power out of your Sound system to sound good, instead of it simply having clarity. Pricks.
I hate the loudness war. The compilation Elv1s CD burned my speakers with it's distorted sound. And I could NEVER get radio to sound nearly as good with any car system I did; it always sounded muddy.
Who need to take an equal blame are the radio stations - Clearwire are notorious for making specific requests to recording artist re the audio production. I've seen a letter reproduced in a book where a clearwire station said 'we'd like to play your recorded but we'd like you to make some changes to the instrumentation first' - Cleawire want just to play one loud crunchy Christian rock song on a loop ad infinitum
The sound I hate the most is that crunchy over compressed car stereo FM station exciterized Christian rock sound - Proper music is all about dynamics. Listen to a non re-mastered version of stairway to heaven - it nearly has the dynamics of a classical record,, All the best recordings have dynamics ,, just as Lucifer intended.
That's the point. No one is looking at the clarity and beauty of the original music. I'd bet that if you could get your hands on the original, unedited version of Californication it would sound much, much better. Much.
And if it had been produced like BloodSugarSexMagik which had DyNaMiCs, it would have been a lot better in terms of fidelity.
To be honest, everyone should release records with a decent dynamic range to allow the drums etc to cut through. You can always use software/hardware remastering solutions like Breakaway Audio Enhancer to level them out and make them overcompressed if you like. Not that I'm slagging Breakaway; it's a great program but it can be misused.
I just listened to Automatic for the people (which is supreme engineering), then i listened to "Road Trippin" from RHCP's Californication. It is awful how the dynamics in Road Trippin are absolutely flattened and it seems like a song like that would have been far better served if it had not been fucked by the loudness war.
Oh but at home, it sounds awful ! I can't listen to the radio at home. A CD sounds alot better.
But there are times when listening to an album, i wish i had the compressed radio version of a track because it added a certain dynamic that moved the record that isn't there in the album version. Its not often and its always the new stuff.
All my old classic albums sound like absolute gold compared to most of the new stuff.
Until music ceases to be corporate, you will always have this problem.
Well, unfortunately, music became a business a long time ago.
Radio = Sales.
For those 2-3 mins of playtime, they want it to sound as immediately appealing as possible.
Its what sells. I think there are still alot of artists who don't request this excess, and their albums reflect that. But the idea is, the record company and radio station wants to hit you with it without just 'hoping' you'll turn it up.
To be honest, if im listening to the radio in my car, i do want instant gratification.
but dance music is different than pop.. pop is empty there is no reason to max it out.. im kinda in between .. I like my music to be as loud but towards where it sounds thin and hollow...
best example of production quality is Infected Mushroom...
That's exactly where the volume control should be in the chain. You mix every song so they sound as good as they can, then master them so they sound like they are from the same album and you set the overall volume to have some headroom. THEN you ADJUST THE VOLUME YOU NEED IN YOUR ROOM AT YOUR VOLUME KNOB to the volume you need for that moment!!! You can't remote control what the end user might need in terms of volume WHILE YOU MIX AND MASTER but that's what they try to do ...
Great explanation about a phenomenon which is really a problem in recent music. I was also a soldier in the loudness war but I deserted some time ago. :)
I am trying to ignore the quality of the queen playing during this video. Ok, so I am totally in. My beef is the crappy sound quality of "sound files". Plus the terrible broadcast sounds of terrestrial AND Satellite radio. Downright awful Sat. is some of the worst "sounding" music I have ever heard.
the attack . i know the sound i want is with a compressor but i dont want it to be not so audible. when the music breaks down i dont want to hear the compressor kick the volume up.Maybe this is the attack working to quickly & i could turn it down some.
i got a question for you all,.. io have a 30 min mix of me djing mp3 techno and house music files with traktor dj studio recording into garageband. I then convert into aiff file & send to sound forge. I've tried a good compressor and eq it . i test the true sound on little computer pc speakers. i use the standard that it should sound loud at least at the halfway mark.how do you get the loudness without clipping. plus in my dance music when it breaks down the compressor boost the volume, is this
can someone tell me how you can view the loudness of a music file with the waves and bars stuff? I'd really like to experiment with this loudness war stuff.
An engineer I talked to last night told me the loudness war started with radio commercials being so loud that the music had to follow. He said its been the same for about 20 years. He also said mastering is a superfluous thing if the music is mixed right from the get-go.
it's true, but the problem now is that you can't make your CD as loud or louder than commercials because the radio DJ (or some automated software control) simply turns the volume knob down when music is playing, and up when it's commercials time.
On that last bit: getting the mix right is 90% of the sound, for sure. Reality is, though, that unless you're a 100% full time professional band you don't have the time to do a "perfect" mix/recording, so proper mastering makes things possible for the rest of us.
@TheRealCritique Mixing only goes so far if the mastering removes any of the dynamics of the song. But the advertising part is correct. Same with TV. It's why the commercials are SO much louder than the TV show and you're constantly reaching for the remote.
@TheRealCritique I hear that... Now, would someone please explain to m why there i so-much wow & flutter to the audio of what's shown on TCM, in-spite of all efforts to adjust the my fair high-end TV's settings & Auotmatic Volume Level activation?
I'm remember when amateur audiophiles took pride in buying eqs for their home audio rigs. They knew or didnt know what to do with them, but people chose how much bass. I've been mixing and preparing for mp3 - normalizing the final AIFFS and amping them about 3x, with 'allow clipping' This gets me to a semi-loud track near the standard volume but only the truly hot peaks are a wee bit over, and the middle is in a decent range. I'm not going hotter than that though, because its stupid.
Loudness is the ratio between the peak and average (RMS) levels. The ear/brain perceives a close ratio as loud regardless of actually volume.
Sounds where the RMS and peak are very close fatigue the ears quicker then sounds with dynamic range. "Loud" sounds (not SPL, but RMS/Peak) cause more damage to the ear then dynamic sounds.
A damaged ear hates dynamics and prefers compressed sounds. Creating a never ending cycle of increasing deafness and "loudness".
For ear 'fatigue' see Tinnitus! How I wished I'd not listened to so much clipped and compressed music and favoured the richer, more delicate and intricate 'quieter' sounds.
OMG and how well will a bunch of deaf people hear anyway. So any remaining push for quality sound will be lost because the majority of the population will be hearing impaired and wont hear the difference anyway :(
There needs to be a website that will list all those f***ing loudness war records, together with a wave diagram. I'm not gonna spend one cent ever again on a CD with WAVE GARBAGE on it!! Never! Nobody should pay for this garbage! Do you listen, MUSIC INDUSTRY ?!!!
So the "ordinary music fan" is an indifferent idiot with no ears at all like the "ordinary eater" is someone who eats fast food all day??!?! man, i'm so sick of this planet!!
Well mate, it's not about the loudness. You can always turn your volume pot all the way and it'll sound loud. The problem is that the dynamic range is so compressed that the process is damaging the essential parts of songs such as drums, who sound much sharper and groovier without the compression... The "before" version is much better... if you want it loud you turn the pot...
So the rub is basically, does this apply to indie tracks uploaded at iTunes as well? Are iTunes and other online companies going to demote tracks that are deemed not to be LOUD enough?
iTunes actually messes with your tracks when you encode them with their software. Including an insane bass-boost.... Like really, if the mastering engineer wanted the extra bass they would have mixed it that way.
There is an option in there somewhere that can be disabled, however I'd suggest using different software to encode.
I was going to give you a thumb up but I disagree with the last part of your comment. Death Magnetic is an OK record, as (80s) Metallica is an OK band. There's far better out there :)
@REIDOPLANETA Death Magnetic isn't exactly awesome. it is good, but certain songs suck. and that snare that Lars plays, is well, to quote a reviewer of the album, obnoxious.
@REIDOPLANETA Lmao. Bring Richard Chycki in, tell him to mix and master. He would be able to fix anything since he is able to fix Rush's 2002 'Vapor Trails'. Great album but...the guy who did the mixing and the guy who did the mastering destroyed the albums sound quality when Rush has been noted countless times for their mix quality. Rush is the only band I can name with good sounding remasters. Their 1993 album 'Counterparts' is the best mixed CD to date, then the remaster is quite fine to.
Haha, and i'm his mate. I've been looking more and more at music and am quite appalled at modern music mastering. Any music released from 1992 onwards is likely to suffer from degeneratively clipped and compressed waveforms (music). Nowdays it's not even genre specific, every type gets the same treatment unless, and only unless, anyone in the musician-producer-company chain says differently. Avoid "remasters" made after 1992. A blacklist would be a good idea :p
Thank you so much for this. Just bought another record today that I cannot listen to because of inacceptable loudness. Is there something like a blacklist of records ?
Loudness War is ruining all types of music be it soft or heavy. For example the mastering of the last Stooges album is disgusting but the 1st 2 albums (69 & 70) sound amazing. Dynamics are lost regardless of volumme level. And it makes everything sound BUZZY
Things started to go bad when flannel clad idiots from Seattle decided that the electric bass was a lead instrument. That, the dreaded double kick drum, and every twenty something vocalist trying to sound like Jim Morrison crooning on his way home from the dentist before the triple novacaine shot wore off. Also, this is what happens when polite society somehow construes that pop music is the exclusive purview of people under thirty years of age. You get what you deserve.
and on a final note about owning the volume knob, what if i want the song to be louder but my stereo has reached its maxium volume or i like the volume of the rest of the song but the harsh high peaks are distorting because their so much louder then the rest of the song....? what happens then?
What the hell kind of stereo do you have where your volume knob has hit the max but you want it louder? Here is a tip. If your stereo weighs less than a 2L bottle of cola, its time for a new one ;)
So just get a stronger amplifier :) That will fix all the loudness issues for ya. Doesnt even have to cost that much. $500 can probably get you a used NAD preamplifier and a NAD amplifier. While NAD may not be high end (compared to some brands), its still really good and I'm sure you will be happy. Rotel is another not so expensive brand with great sound. I have a Rotel Preamp and I'm really happy with it.
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why the hell should i have to go out and spend $500 on something i shouldn't have to buy? and what about the poor bastard that can't afford to just because some arty farty asshole wants to complain that his music dont sound the way he wants it. if it means so much to you go write your own music and dont compress it. my first point was that this video is a poor example. if it was given to a real engineer he could get the loudness without destroying the sound.
Thats true...but back to your first statement, if you do turn the volume knob to 10 and its not loud enough, no amount of boosting during mastering is going to help you. You need either a bigger amplifier, more efficient speakers or something. Its really easy to understand actually.
The only time I find someone complains about the volume not being loud enough is when the dont actually enjoy the quality of music but just want quantity. In that case, there are some test tones you can buy ;)
An engineer has limits on how much he can get out of the recording without pushing something else out of the balance.
For instance, you can boost the sound up to a point, but you also boost everything else that's in the recording, such as the noise floor. There are ways to deal with that short of redoing the take, but there are limits to what you can do without compromising the quality of the existing recording.
An *experienced* engineer understands the importance of balance in their work.
"An *experienced* engineer understands the importance of balance in their work." well if you understand this concept why are you arguing with me. i'm complaining that this video is a poor example of the real issues. and shows the guy just putting the thing to the maxiumum volume without any sort of real work and completely ruining the music. i'm pissed off coz thats not what a real engineer does at all. not if they know what they are doing.
Your reply did remind me of one thing; an experienced engineer is subject to the whims of his/her bosses.
There are people in leadership positions of the music industry who have no idea what goes into making things right and basically orders the engineer to make it loud, even though it's not possible without messing the sound up.
When the average listener is given the choice of which sounds better, he is most likely going to choose the louder one.
If you turn the volume up to its maximum, you're either going to get complaints from other people or your equipment has real problems putting out good sound at good volumes.
As for the peaks, if they are transient (occurring only for a brief moment) then it's no problem; there will be no audible distortion in that case.
The problem with the loudness war is that it defies an important rule in recording: maintaining balances.
Loud must be balanced by quiet as the clip by Matt Mayfield explains.
So, you should blame the songwriter for a recording that lacks dynamics and detail or for a recording that becomes laden with clipping?
The songwriter has no control over what the recording engineer and mastering engineer does to the final sound, and that's the point that's being discussed here.
A live performance is filled with moments of sound that are loud and soft, so why should a recording not reproduce that as well?
as a mastering engineer ur example is totally stupid. 4 1 songs released these days are mixed better according 2 what will happen during mastering. songs are also not just compressed their eq'd and multiband compressed as to be as transparent 2 the orginal mix as possible, that's what good mastering is, achiving good volume with little to no loss of quality. and frankly i own the volume knob but i dont wanna have to adjusting it every 5 minutes to compensate for 1 song being louder then another.
nice. We never covered this in my audio production classes. Key is that educational purposes are legal for music so no worries about copyright in this case.
yeah, my dad was gonna thow out his technics sl-1200, but i saved it from the trash. What an IDIOT! now i am trying to get him back to vinyl. he for some reason likes mp3's. I cant stand to be in the same room with him when he is listening to his iPod. I only have 50 albums, but for now it isnt that bad. I just order off of Amazon, or Go to my local record shop for oldies.
Until now, I've always thought modern CDs sounded better than the ones from the 80's. I mean, the quality of the sounds, I mean the clarity is better. But the loudness is the big problem.
For example, if you listen to The Beatles 1, the audio quality is fantastic, but it doesn't respect the punch of the tracks, I mean, the real emotion, the way they were really recorded. That's sad...
No, what are you talking about, the audio quality's shitty too, you know, compare the sound of, mmm, Hey Jude from the 1988 CD of Past Masters Vol. 2 and the Hey Jude from the aforementioned 1. You can FEEL the build-up ("...better better better YEAH!") before the "na-na-na-na..." and the coda while the song slowly fades out on the former, while on the latter is hard to discern if the song's fading out...
i have a home studio with a cd mastering device. if you play a commercial cd in it, you cannot listen to it. the sound, no matter what level, is in the clip field and is nothing but distortion.....i just dont understand.
Data compression is completely different to audio compression, even when used on audio. What you are complaining about is lossy data compression such as MP3s and .mov files.
You know, this is just a thought, but I think that people are actually unconciously trying to compensate for this loss of dynamics anyway. The simple solution, turn it up louder. If the sound is loud enough, those things that are lost can be heard (though you get hearing loss...)
I've listened to a few older albums and I must say, I really really want to hear more of those dynamics in modern music. It's very nice if you stop focusing on the bass and listen to the rest for a change.
That track is not early 80's but 1989. Ignorance is bliss, huh? Listening great music with dynamics that you can turn up, and listen to without hurting your ears and that makes you want to tap your feet, is old -fashioned and whack, and listening to modern over-compressed, sonically squashed music, that hurts your ears, that causes listening fatigue, and that you can't listen to loud, and makes you want to turn down the volume instead of turning it up, is modern, and great and not-whack??
Today's music is crap, and the mastering is just following in the same line. Talentless mumbling idiots like 50 cents are awarded the songwriter of the year awards -- the power of the media is enormous---- they will brainwash you, sell you any kind of crap, and convince you it is great, and that you need it. Modern pop-rock-rnb music is dead, and mastering has just sealed the coffin with the pressure of - 6 or 7 dB full scale.
Enjoy it, and you will surely be deaf by your 40ies.
You'll be deaf for listening to any music above 110db regardless of WHAT music it is. You're less likely to go deaf from a fully mastered track riding at 80-90db rather than a track that sits at 90db and spikes at 120db. Turn down your radio.
A whole generation of kids will never get the chance to hear-learn-perceive what dynamics is, and for that matter what great sonics sound like. Industry is feeding the masses with squashed overcompressed clipped bad sounding records, and they have even managed to sell them the idea that this is the way music should sound.
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A wise man once said:
"Shut the hell up, seriously. You can't do shit about it, so go home."
No amount of arguing or controversy will change any of this - it's basically a bitching post for jealous mastering technicians that think they're superior to the people that are making six times your salary processing the nation's top tracks. Save your breath for a real cause guys. You're acting like a bunch of my ex wives.
I disagree. As a composer and audio enthusiast, I find the loudness of modern CDs to be despicable, and feel it is the responsibility of artists and fans everywhere to demand superior sound quality.
As to your fatalistic denouncement that voicing descent (i.e. "You can't so s**t about it) is tantamount to "bitching" and can never influence or change the minds of the powers that be, I know a few historical English Kings, French Aristocrats, and Russian Tsars who'd call that idea into question.
Hm. Well as a very successful Mastering Engineer, I can assure you that most artists and fans don't notice it, & usually don't care. Loud bands love hearing their music even louder - and the loudness actually increases adrenaline & endorphins, causing a physical enjoyment to listeners... which sells more records. And in case you're out of the loop: the music industry is run by money.
So, instead of everyone flooding this forum, stop beating a dead horse. You can't and won't change it. Ciao.
No, I am not "out of the loop" by any means. I know of some successful Mastering and Mixing engineers who are squarely on the side of High Fidelity and against gratuitous loudness, and from them I draw both inspiration and education. I'd be willing to weigh their Grammys, Oscars, and other industry awards against yours before I tossed aside their advice.
And since when does standing up for what one believes in based on sound artistic and scientific principles amount to "beating a dead horse"?
No, but complaining about something and not doing anything to change it a very... hippie characteristic.
I don't disagree that some engineers have a tendency to mutilate tracks to appease producers, QA, & artists - but really, it's not as bad as you're making it sound: it's a VERY minuscule amount of music that this happens to.
Ultimately, you have two easy choices: suck it up and do what they want, or get blacklisted & destroy your career.
"Loud bands love hearing their music even louder - and the loudness actually increases adrenaline & endorphins, causing a physical enjoyment to listeners"
I like loud music too. That's what the VOLUME KNOB is there for.
Dynamic Range everytime,not Loudness..
redeyesinthedark 1 month ago
This is one very "dear" video. =p
leighstephens74 1 month ago
This video went viral on Phnom Penh
kimtorres613 2 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
Nice video.
Professional Mixing and Mastering at CrystalMixing
CrystalMixing 3 months ago
Ha, haha, hahahhaha, HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA... IT'S A PUN. (The title)
Tyzyb 6 months ago
Am I the only one that likes the brighter sound of CD's? I have been listening to comparisons of modern CD's to modern vynils and the vynils always sound muffled. Cd's have more attack and brightness. If it's too loud just turn the volume down some... I honestly don't understand, but I genuinely want to. I'm an aspiring producer and sound quality is very important to me. CD's just honestly sound better to me.
Adema1226 6 months ago
@Adema1226 You don't have to over-compress and over-limit the recording to make it sound bright. Don't do this loudness thing, it's a very unpleasant thing. I don't know how to deal with it, too. I did an album for one musician and he responded that he's not satisfied, just because it's not loud enough for him. I did some very hard work with his album, and all he cares about in the end is volume.
TheMusicalSteve 6 months ago
@Adema1226 The problem isn't how loud it is, you can just turn the volume down. The problem is that in order to achieve this "loudness" the dynamic range is all compressed.
MrTomflack 4 months ago
I'm gonna listen to Live in La Vida Loca now cause I remembered that as being quite punchy although the choruses were quite full of sound.
TimpBizkit 6 months ago
Imagine if TV did the same, where you have to have the brightest picture you can, but TV has a limit to how bright it can be so you have to start 'turning the black up' until it becomes grey and everything is washed out.
TimpBizkit 6 months ago
this is now at a point that its physical distortion.
scaleop4 7 months ago
There is no sense in it. Even when I was a DJ in the late 60's, early 70's, the rock stations all had "Stay-Levels" to compress the songs on the fly. Surely the makers of iPods and so forth could put switchable compression in the devices (for listening while jogging or whatever).
I just scored a used 1985 CD of Brothers In Arms. I had forgotten just how good it is. The clarity and detail are startling. Why did they "fix" one of the most popular CD's of all time in the re-release?
JiveDadson 8 months ago
@JiveDadson The only remasters I have ever seen that stay true to the originals is the ones before 2000. The 1999 Bowie reissues, and Ozzy's 1994 remasters are how I think remasters should sound. Bought a new remaster of the Rolling Stones classic Exile on Main St. Boy was I disappointed putting that in my car stereo. Everything is sooooooo loud and it drowns out all the instruments. The composition of arranging instruments in the songs is completely drowned out over the loudness.
LivinWorstNightmare 8 months ago
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if you people are sick of this shit, write letters, emails, facebook comments, tweets, or w/e to the record labels. ITS NOT GOING TO STOP UNLESS MANY PEOPLE MAKE THE LABELS AWARE OF YOUR CONCERNS.
canitasteyou321 8 months ago
this is why i don't listen to music from lady gaga or other crap music that's not music at all. the bands that i buy from now are linkin park, drift less pony club and gorillaz they make music like it should be, crystal clear and not extremely loud from the get go.
dragkid185 9 months ago
@dragkid185 linkin park and gorillaz music is as loud as lady gaga music. And this has nothing to do with the quality of the musician. And gaga's music is, well, musically decent enough. She uses motifs throughout her albums, even of concept.
ravenmek 8 months ago
This is pissing me off...I saw the "CD Hall of Fame", and "CD Hall of Shame"...Okay for Rush, 'Vapor Trails' should be in the "Hall of Shame" for its original master (not the remaster, no, no, no, no, no, the remaster, I've seen how its going to turn out via 'One Little Victory [Remix]', and 'Earthshine [Remix]' and Richard Chycki is fixing that up good!). Then in the "Hall of Fame" should be Rush, 'Counterparts' considering how life like of a sound that album had and the production quality.
LightningCat315 9 months ago
0:35 HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
icee562 10 months ago
Um, actually.... you likely don't know this, but using all capitals actually makes it EASIER for people to read. Seriously... teleprompters, copy, etc. all use capitalization because you can actually process the letters far quicker than upper and lower case.
Don't believe me? Call up any TV studio or Radio station and ask them.
So um... you're hypothesis about this text being hard to read is inaccurate.
TheDaedalEVE 11 months ago
@TheDaedalEVE Um, actually... you likely don't know this, but you're wrong. The brain goes on the recognition of the letter forms, rather than reading each word letter by letter, it can scan quicker when there are ascenders, descenders, and the like. When words are in all caps the brain has to work harder to differentiate between letter forms because they are all similar. Teleprompters use caps, to differentiate "read lines" from directional information. Copy uses them to help elements stand out
MrKickyourbutt 10 months ago
@MrKickyourbutt
Interesting... because when I did broadcasting in school (we produced three shows a month that went on local cable, and had an AM radio station) we used all caps for our teleprompters AND copy (all of it, not just key words) because it was easier to read than upper and lower case (that's what we were taught). So my actual life experience contradicts what you're saying.
TheDaedalEVE 10 months ago
God I've been trying to explain this to people for ages before seeing this video and others like it! Now I can finally put a name to it and direct people!
Every song I hear these days is so monotone (also not as good as old music but that's another matter)
AzaIndustries 1 year ago
@AzaIndustries ur judging un entire kind of music by the commercial part of it. listen 2 some electronic music, or hiphop or watever tht isnt on the radio
MrP00sy 1 year ago
@MrP00sy Um.. they all go through the same distributors.
And I know there is still good music around but its not mainstream like it once was now you have to search for it.
I'm talking about explaining this to people who only listen to mainstream rubbish that's around these days.
AzaIndustries 1 year ago
The thing is with cheap poor quality mini systems that the kids use, there's distortion with any process whether it be brick walled or dynamic so it doesn't
matter so much there. In fact the compressed stuff can atleast sound prominent and punchy on such systems. This is the trouble music is not aimed at those
who are not tone deaf with high quality systems.
155MikeC 1 year ago
Really good video that show how awful it is - I almost never listen to mastred music because of this
Commersially produced movies has the same shit - and I cannot even watch one without go mad about the sound. Along with compression and distorsion there is an array other bad things - such as mono on dialog and many sound effects, to low (unrealistic) levels of ambient sounds and to low levels of bass and high frequency (for example vehicle sounds almost always have way to low bass levels).
C20rules 1 year ago
You're version of I Want to be Free makes me want to be free of cheesy pop
brengf 1 year ago
This is why I always choose vinyl over CD
ThatDaveDude1 1 year ago
@ThatDaveDude1 But remember, back in the days music was mastered to be on vinyl. Nowadays the mastering for CD and then bouncing it to vinyl just doesn't sound right.
DuskY1991 1 year ago
@DuskY1991
This has nothing to do with the media (but both vinyl and CD has far higher dynamic range than matred music will ever get close to) - it's simply because they want it loud and doesn't care very much about quality.
For example many people want to get maximum volume out from their mp3-player with weak output (so they then can then sit and destroy their hearing with loud music thru crappy "in ear" headphones, for example on the train - haha).
C20rules 1 year ago
HOLY shiT!
reading the paragraph @ 2:20 really hurt my head.
TheForeteller 1 year ago 2
It's not the notes that make music, it's the space between them.
aussietv2 1 year ago
Why the hell are they doing this still? What's wrong with the music industry?
conyo985 1 year ago
great video!
6thSealMusic 1 year ago
A digital limiter removes only the inaudible spikes from percussion within the music. Any over limiting would constitute the "crappy sound". This over limiting is brought to you by amateurs. Even when pop or rock music is ltd properly, this is why the audio looks like a shaved caterpillar. Most engineers use multi-band limiting which provides even more nominal signal with a natural sound. These mixes are the ones that appear to be over ltd but still have their dynamic range. There is no war.
powellmusicplus 1 year ago
@powellmusicplus Records are losing dynamic range and there's all sorts of examples around that can attest to that, take Alice in Chains's newest or Death Magnetic. There's no need to be an apologist for the music industry.
antonio610 1 year ago 2
i agree with all of this, but the examples given are nor real, they always just limit the mix.
bestplugins 1 year ago
radio noise vomits throw speakers every day in germany. no more dynamics and no more audible difference between music and advertises. sounds all the same. this was the reason why my stereo doesn't play radio anymore. It is confused of the high volume ranges and tells "over! over! oooover!!!" all the time and reacts with continious reducing input level, so I did throw it away without replacing it. My CD records doesn't have such a vomiting sound.
Wichtelchen2006 1 year ago
Thanks for presenting this! Compression takes the life out of recorded sound. You won't find anything like this on Telarc or Sony Classical. So what if the average level is louder? If you play it back at a lower level you've lost the quality that makes music sound live.
Isn't it ironic that the high fidelity movement in the 1950s resulted in the better quality recording equipment and improved recording techniques we have today only to be highjacked by the loudness freaks.
acoustics101 1 year ago 2
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No wonder why records are coming back, cause they can never suffer from the loudness wars. Cds were suppose to be the next thing in audio quality and now they sound worse than a crappy old cassette. I swear every thing comes down to the dumb masses who do not know nothing about anything, but for the people who want quality get stuck with what the music industry shoves down our throats. Its hard to like any new music without being turned off by the cd, Give me quality and I will pay for it
five5x 1 year ago
No wonder why records are coming back, cause they can never suffer from the loudness wars. Cds were suppose to be the next thing in audio quality and now they sound worse that a crappy old cassette. I swear every thing comes down to the dumb masses who do not know nothing about anything, but for the people who want quality get stuck with what the music industry shoves down our throats. Its hard to like any new music without being turned off by the cd, Give me quality and I will pay for it
five5x 1 year ago
Love the quote at 2:00
IWishIWasFinnish 1 year ago
Great Video!! Found myself thinnking about the type of music I listen to, and understanding why music allways sounded better in the 80s 90s... I thought It was just I getting older :D But maybe the marketing envolving the music market as something to do it... It feels like the music now is made to sell fast and forget. We are now on the fast music times, just like the fast food, need-buy-listen-forget; need-buy-listen-forget; need-buy-listen-forget; . . .
llmlx 1 year ago
BTW, that last waveform (1999) is Livin La Vida Loca by Ricky Martin. It was the first record completely Recorded, Mixed and Mastered in Pro Tools.
Blacklistedstudio 1 year ago
just fyi comic sans is the loudness war of typography
tylerawesome 1 year ago
Awesome video. Please continue to spread the word.
Blacklistedstudio 1 year ago
funniest thing are new remasters that are supposed to sound better but they usually sound much worse due to compression..
ziherr 1 year ago
aaaaaaaah now i know the reason why pop music is so boring ö.ö
wolffe93 1 year ago
There I was thinking, my amp. and speakers were crap, constantly pining over a high end setup that I couldn't afford. I now realise that most of my stuff originates from poorly mastered CDs.
dylw 2 years ago 4
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This + iPod + Cheap shit headphones that don't have a good ear cup that deaden external sounds = Alot of young kids going deaf early. Simply because loud compressed music fucks your ears and shit headphones (espesh in ear ones) REALLY rattle your drums & bones in your ear 'espesh when you're turning them up to compensate for external noise like passing cars in the street etc...
Invest in a decent pair of headphones, you'll find you listen to music half as loud and you'll save your hearing.
scotalianrocker 2 years ago 2
Comment removed
scotalianrocker 2 years ago
I agree...but the video....can you do something about the text overlays? Horrible to read on most of the.....
rodmotzko 2 years ago
the people responsible for deliberately compressing music should be drug out into the streets and seriously beat to a pulp. FUCK U ASSHOLES! I pay good money for music, not garbage!
Mariachi153 2 years ago 11
Amen. I REFUSE to buy Tracks, or Albums that have been Hard Limited & OVER MASTERED. And the sad thing is.. People are paying for this service! Fucking Mugs! It's the POP culture that has done this.. POP music is Manufactured music that isn't about good music, it's about making one patch sounding really Powerfull by destroying all the Dynamics & Pumping the Volume up.. It's about making a track get as much Power out of your Sound system to sound good, instead of it simply having clarity. Pricks.
therealKINDLE 2 years ago 4
so thattttsss why im noticing music has been changing. thanks for posting!
concertaddiction 2 years ago
I don't get this whole loudness war, is it only with mainstream music or somethin? cause I wasn't really aware of it till today
BlackSunSerenade 2 years ago
It's only recently that I've been aware of it properly but it's been going on for years with various music genres and scenes.
CLeRKSfan4life 2 years ago
Oops, my bad! I watched it again! Dismiss my earlier comment.
Peccath 2 years ago
Mayfield's example is wrong. He's not compressing the track, just cutting the peaks off!
Peccath 2 years ago
Yes "cutting the peaks off" is exactly what happens when the engineers turn-up the volume. You get clipping.
harleykman 2 years ago 2
haha way to steal that other guy's video. lol jk he wanted it to get around.
1DanielChristensen 2 years ago
I hate the loudness war. The compilation Elv1s CD burned my speakers with it's distorted sound. And I could NEVER get radio to sound nearly as good with any car system I did; it always sounded muddy.
1DanielChristensen 2 years ago
Who need to take an equal blame are the radio stations - Clearwire are notorious for making specific requests to recording artist re the audio production. I've seen a letter reproduced in a book where a clearwire station said 'we'd like to play your recorded but we'd like you to make some changes to the instrumentation first' - Cleawire want just to play one loud crunchy Christian rock song on a loop ad infinitum
orangesquish 2 years ago
The sound I hate the most is that crunchy over compressed car stereo FM station exciterized Christian rock sound - Proper music is all about dynamics. Listen to a non re-mastered version of stairway to heaven - it nearly has the dynamics of a classical record,, All the best recordings have dynamics ,, just as Lucifer intended.
orangesquish 2 years ago
@orangesquish hahaha the end statement was beautifully put. Im betting that most people on here have no clue that lucifer was the archangel of music.
i guess thats why metal is the best... its powered by satan. hahaha
LoneSaiyan115 2 years ago
This is what happens when we let our lives be run by fucking marketing executives. :(
tfpmacheath 2 years ago 11
Well. Just an observation, not looking for a fight. But, Californication sold 15 million copies. So, somebody liked it.
lindenhu 2 years ago
That's the point. No one is looking at the clarity and beauty of the original music. I'd bet that if you could get your hands on the original, unedited version of Californication it would sound much, much better. Much.
orc277 2 years ago 3
And if it had been produced like BloodSugarSexMagik which had DyNaMiCs, it would have been a lot better in terms of fidelity.
To be honest, everyone should release records with a decent dynamic range to allow the drums etc to cut through. You can always use software/hardware remastering solutions like Breakaway Audio Enhancer to level them out and make them overcompressed if you like. Not that I'm slagging Breakaway; it's a great program but it can be misused.
zackpliskin 2 years ago
I just listened to Automatic for the people (which is supreme engineering), then i listened to "Road Trippin" from RHCP's Californication. It is awful how the dynamics in Road Trippin are absolutely flattened and it seems like a song like that would have been far better served if it had not been fucked by the loudness war.
RabiesJr 2 years ago
Oh but at home, it sounds awful ! I can't listen to the radio at home. A CD sounds alot better.
But there are times when listening to an album, i wish i had the compressed radio version of a track because it added a certain dynamic that moved the record that isn't there in the album version. Its not often and its always the new stuff.
All my old classic albums sound like absolute gold compared to most of the new stuff.
Until music ceases to be corporate, you will always have this problem.
DonJuanDeMarco2 2 years ago
Well, unfortunately, music became a business a long time ago.
Radio = Sales.
For those 2-3 mins of playtime, they want it to sound as immediately appealing as possible.
Its what sells. I think there are still alot of artists who don't request this excess, and their albums reflect that. But the idea is, the record company and radio station wants to hit you with it without just 'hoping' you'll turn it up.
To be honest, if im listening to the radio in my car, i do want instant gratification.
DonJuanDeMarco2 2 years ago 2
That's my Geek! Good job! -Derek
AnchoriteProductions 2 years ago
Hola, alguien me podria decir como se hace eso y con que programa...gracias...
Poroto1983 2 years ago
el programa que se usa y es el mejor y facil de usar es el adobe audition 1.5 saludos desde reumen region de los rios chile miradiofm 107.9
reumenita 2 years ago
but dance music is different than pop.. pop is empty there is no reason to max it out.. im kinda in between .. I like my music to be as loud but towards where it sounds thin and hollow...
best example of production quality is Infected Mushroom...
synthetic144 2 years ago
My computer volume goes to 11. It's one louder than everyone else.
hoya03 2 years ago 5
That's exactly where the volume control should be in the chain. You mix every song so they sound as good as they can, then master them so they sound like they are from the same album and you set the overall volume to have some headroom. THEN you ADJUST THE VOLUME YOU NEED IN YOUR ROOM AT YOUR VOLUME KNOB to the volume you need for that moment!!! You can't remote control what the end user might need in terms of volume WHILE YOU MIX AND MASTER but that's what they try to do ...
heyawhaw 2 years ago 3
mine goes to 65 actually
jian2069 2 years ago
Great explanation about a phenomenon which is really a problem in recent music. I was also a soldier in the loudness war but I deserted some time ago. :)
FokkoVersloot 3 years ago
I am trying to ignore the quality of the queen playing during this video. Ok, so I am totally in. My beef is the crappy sound quality of "sound files". Plus the terrible broadcast sounds of terrestrial AND Satellite radio. Downright awful Sat. is some of the worst "sounding" music I have ever heard.
Chudhole 3 years ago
Wich audio software do you use in the second part of this video?
I've see you can increase the loudness of only the RMS level, how can you do this?
thaks
cunigus 3 years ago
the attack . i know the sound i want is with a compressor but i dont want it to be not so audible. when the music breaks down i dont want to hear the compressor kick the volume up.Maybe this is the attack working to quickly & i could turn it down some.
ERMAC4482 3 years ago
Attack is dangerous for humans. It makes us dance and do things we regret in the morning
TheVoice22222 3 years ago 8
i got a question for you all,.. io have a 30 min mix of me djing mp3 techno and house music files with traktor dj studio recording into garageband. I then convert into aiff file & send to sound forge. I've tried a good compressor and eq it . i test the true sound on little computer pc speakers. i use the standard that it should sound loud at least at the halfway mark.how do you get the loudness without clipping. plus in my dance music when it breaks down the compressor boost the volume, is this
ERMAC4482 3 years ago
If you don't use compressor, you get no clipping.
To make it louder while you listen to it, you simply turn the volume knob clockwise on your power amplifier.
If you want even louder, use some nice line stage amplifier.
Try and you will see that it sounds 10 times better than compressed.
however, your mp3 techno and house is probably already compressed really hard.
just use "normalize to -0.1dB" in your software.
zlac 3 years ago 4
Use less compression.
WeFallChildren 2 years ago 4
can someone tell me how you can view the loudness of a music file with the waves and bars stuff? I'd really like to experiment with this loudness war stuff.
mrbrightside42 3 years ago
Download a software app called Audacity.
randomunavailable 3 years ago 4
An engineer I talked to last night told me the loudness war started with radio commercials being so loud that the music had to follow. He said its been the same for about 20 years. He also said mastering is a superfluous thing if the music is mixed right from the get-go.
TheRealCritique 3 years ago 9
it's true, but the problem now is that you can't make your CD as loud or louder than commercials because the radio DJ (or some automated software control) simply turns the volume knob down when music is playing, and up when it's commercials time.
Plus they use their compressor anyway...
zlac 3 years ago
On that last bit: getting the mix right is 90% of the sound, for sure. Reality is, though, that unless you're a 100% full time professional band you don't have the time to do a "perfect" mix/recording, so proper mastering makes things possible for the rest of us.
WinterAyars 3 years ago
@TheRealCritique Mixing only goes so far if the mastering removes any of the dynamics of the song. But the advertising part is correct. Same with TV. It's why the commercials are SO much louder than the TV show and you're constantly reaching for the remote.
weggles 1 year ago 2
@TheRealCritique I hear that... Now, would someone please explain to m why there i so-much wow & flutter to the audio of what's shown on TCM, in-spite of all efforts to adjust the my fair high-end TV's settings & Auotmatic Volume Level activation?
nickelindimer 5 months ago
I'm remember when amateur audiophiles took pride in buying eqs for their home audio rigs. They knew or didnt know what to do with them, but people chose how much bass. I've been mixing and preparing for mp3 - normalizing the final AIFFS and amping them about 3x, with 'allow clipping' This gets me to a semi-loud track near the standard volume but only the truly hot peaks are a wee bit over, and the middle is in a decent range. I'm not going hotter than that though, because its stupid.
TheRealCritique 3 years ago
the loudness of records is not taken by normalizing and clipping, is based on multichannel compressors, limiters, etc...
dafaucas 3 years ago 2
An important point to make.
Loudness is the ratio between the peak and average (RMS) levels. The ear/brain perceives a close ratio as loud regardless of actually volume.
Sounds where the RMS and peak are very close fatigue the ears quicker then sounds with dynamic range. "Loud" sounds (not SPL, but RMS/Peak) cause more damage to the ear then dynamic sounds.
A damaged ear hates dynamics and prefers compressed sounds. Creating a never ending cycle of increasing deafness and "loudness".
mryellow123 3 years ago 5
For ear 'fatigue' see Tinnitus! How I wished I'd not listened to so much clipped and compressed music and favoured the richer, more delicate and intricate 'quieter' sounds.
canitype 3 years ago 4
OMG and how well will a bunch of deaf people hear anyway. So any remaining push for quality sound will be lost because the majority of the population will be hearing impaired and wont hear the difference anyway :(
svtcontour 3 years ago 2
There needs to be a website that will list all those f***ing loudness war records, together with a wave diagram. I'm not gonna spend one cent ever again on a CD with WAVE GARBAGE on it!! Never! Nobody should pay for this garbage! Do you listen, MUSIC INDUSTRY ?!!!
rittersoftlan 3 years ago 5
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well, its just my preference, i usually listen to music at low volumes, if not always.
I wanna hear all the details at low volumes, so this 'loudness war' thing works for me.
I don't care bout any techie thing i'm ignorant about, i'm just an ordinary music fan and i just listen to what i wanna hear.
asawhole69 3 years ago
So the "ordinary music fan" is an indifferent idiot with no ears at all like the "ordinary eater" is someone who eats fast food all day??!?! man, i'm so sick of this planet!!
rittersoftlan 3 years ago
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well, i prefer LOUD,
like that nickelback Loud
not so with metallica loud, i still like it though.
my point is, i want it loud,
i dont like the sound of older records
i guess its just preference
asawhole69 3 years ago
Well mate, it's not about the loudness. You can always turn your volume pot all the way and it'll sound loud. The problem is that the dynamic range is so compressed that the process is damaging the essential parts of songs such as drums, who sound much sharper and groovier without the compression... The "before" version is much better... if you want it loud you turn the pot...
illumination2006 3 years ago 6
So the rub is basically, does this apply to indie tracks uploaded at iTunes as well? Are iTunes and other online companies going to demote tracks that are deemed not to be LOUD enough?
TheRealCritique 3 years ago
iTunes actually messes with your tracks when you encode them with their software. Including an insane bass-boost.... Like really, if the mastering engineer wanted the extra bass they would have mixed it that way.
There is an option in there somewhere that can be disabled, however I'd suggest using different software to encode.
mryellow123 3 years ago
just listen to fucking death magnetic, awesome album with pile loads of loudness, gg music industry u've just ruined the best album of the last 20y
REIDOPLANETA 3 years ago 26
I was going to give you a thumb up but I disagree with the last part of your comment. Death Magnetic is an OK record, as (80s) Metallica is an OK band. There's far better out there :)
evildwarf 3 years ago
@REIDOPLANETA Death Magnetic isn't exactly awesome. it is good, but certain songs suck. and that snare that Lars plays, is well, to quote a reviewer of the album, obnoxious.
uN1Qu3DZ 1 year ago
@uN1Qu3DZ What about the snare on St. Anger?
SlimeTron5000 1 year ago
@REIDOPLANETA Lmao. Bring Richard Chycki in, tell him to mix and master. He would be able to fix anything since he is able to fix Rush's 2002 'Vapor Trails'. Great album but...the guy who did the mixing and the guy who did the mastering destroyed the albums sound quality when Rush has been noted countless times for their mix quality. Rush is the only band I can name with good sounding remasters. Their 1993 album 'Counterparts' is the best mixed CD to date, then the remaster is quite fine to.
LightningCat315 9 months ago
Haha, and i'm his mate. I've been looking more and more at music and am quite appalled at modern music mastering. Any music released from 1992 onwards is likely to suffer from degeneratively clipped and compressed waveforms (music). Nowdays it's not even genre specific, every type gets the same treatment unless, and only unless, anyone in the musician-producer-company chain says differently. Avoid "remasters" made after 1992. A blacklist would be a good idea :p
Satlam 3 years ago 4
Thank you so much for this. Just bought another record today that I cannot listen to because of inacceptable loudness. Is there something like a blacklist of records ?
rittersoftlan 3 years ago
Constant volume is Noise..
Dynamic noise is Music.
get it music producers? u r killing music
tushar310 3 years ago 54
Ya'll should listen to Porcupine Tree, Steve Wilson knows how to properly master a CD.
Athrogate56 3 years ago
you are so damn right!
Somethimes Old recordings sounds better.I cant understand the trend about louding up everything and compressing all the track.
ANDiTKO 3 years ago
Loudness War is ruining all types of music be it soft or heavy. For example the mastering of the last Stooges album is disgusting but the 1st 2 albums (69 & 70) sound amazing. Dynamics are lost regardless of volumme level. And it makes everything sound BUZZY
kingofpunk1967 3 years ago
We should make a list of all the record labels that dont butcher music. Those are the ones that need our money and support :)
svtcontour 3 years ago 8
Everything about this video is excellent, EXCEPT the use of Comic Sans MS!
vwestlife 3 years ago 3
I have started to change my taste in music. I cant take this poorly recorded crap anymore.
We should make a list of production houses that bring out well recorded stuff.
Some of my best are Telarc CDs. I have a few CDs from Deutsche Grammophon and they are good as well.
svtcontour 3 years ago
These days, it seems that you can only get properly recorded/mixed/mastered CDs from respected classical labels.
Watcher3223 3 years ago 5
Try "Dimmu Borgir - Indoctrination " :] the world's loudest album :P
x2net 3 years ago
what? Indoctrination isn't an album, Puritanical Euphoric Misanthropia is...
bear in mind, metal isn't a great comparison to older, less compressed music due to the generally faster tempos. much less black metal
mattz1010 3 years ago
Things started to go bad when flannel clad idiots from Seattle decided that the electric bass was a lead instrument. That, the dreaded double kick drum, and every twenty something vocalist trying to sound like Jim Morrison crooning on his way home from the dentist before the triple novacaine shot wore off. Also, this is what happens when polite society somehow construes that pop music is the exclusive purview of people under thirty years of age. You get what you deserve.
posthastey 3 years ago
bass is a lead instrument :-P
mryellow123 3 years ago 4
and on a final note about owning the volume knob, what if i want the song to be louder but my stereo has reached its maxium volume or i like the volume of the rest of the song but the harsh high peaks are distorting because their so much louder then the rest of the song....? what happens then?
forsakenmemoryuk 3 years ago
its called not buying electronics at wal mart and target....hell lets throw in best buy and circuit city as well!
WaveyD4vey 3 years ago 3
What the hell kind of stereo do you have where your volume knob has hit the max but you want it louder? Here is a tip. If your stereo weighs less than a 2L bottle of cola, its time for a new one ;)
svtcontour 3 years ago 4
the kinda stereo where every cd i to listen to is only quarter of the volume, of what it could of been. =P
forsakenmemoryuk 3 years ago
So just get a stronger amplifier :) That will fix all the loudness issues for ya. Doesnt even have to cost that much. $500 can probably get you a used NAD preamplifier and a NAD amplifier. While NAD may not be high end (compared to some brands), its still really good and I'm sure you will be happy. Rotel is another not so expensive brand with great sound. I have a Rotel Preamp and I'm really happy with it.
svtcontour 3 years ago
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why the hell should i have to go out and spend $500 on something i shouldn't have to buy? and what about the poor bastard that can't afford to just because some arty farty asshole wants to complain that his music dont sound the way he wants it. if it means so much to you go write your own music and dont compress it. my first point was that this video is a poor example. if it was given to a real engineer he could get the loudness without destroying the sound.
forsakenmemoryuk 3 years ago
Thats true...but back to your first statement, if you do turn the volume knob to 10 and its not loud enough, no amount of boosting during mastering is going to help you. You need either a bigger amplifier, more efficient speakers or something. Its really easy to understand actually.
The only time I find someone complains about the volume not being loud enough is when the dont actually enjoy the quality of music but just want quantity. In that case, there are some test tones you can buy ;)
svtcontour 3 years ago 2
An engineer has limits on how much he can get out of the recording without pushing something else out of the balance.
For instance, you can boost the sound up to a point, but you also boost everything else that's in the recording, such as the noise floor. There are ways to deal with that short of redoing the take, but there are limits to what you can do without compromising the quality of the existing recording.
An *experienced* engineer understands the importance of balance in their work.
Watcher3223 3 years ago
"An *experienced* engineer understands the importance of balance in their work." well if you understand this concept why are you arguing with me. i'm complaining that this video is a poor example of the real issues. and shows the guy just putting the thing to the maxiumum volume without any sort of real work and completely ruining the music. i'm pissed off coz thats not what a real engineer does at all. not if they know what they are doing.
forsakenmemoryuk 3 years ago
Fair enough.
Your reply did remind me of one thing; an experienced engineer is subject to the whims of his/her bosses.
There are people in leadership positions of the music industry who have no idea what goes into making things right and basically orders the engineer to make it loud, even though it's not possible without messing the sound up.
When the average listener is given the choice of which sounds better, he is most likely going to choose the louder one.
Watcher3223 3 years ago
If you turn the volume up to its maximum, you're either going to get complaints from other people or your equipment has real problems putting out good sound at good volumes.
As for the peaks, if they are transient (occurring only for a brief moment) then it's no problem; there will be no audible distortion in that case.
The problem with the loudness war is that it defies an important rule in recording: maintaining balances.
Loud must be balanced by quiet as the clip by Matt Mayfield explains.
Watcher3223 3 years ago 2
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"Loud must be balanced by quiet as the clip by Matt Mayfield explains." thats got nothing to do with compression. thats just bad songwriting.
forsakenmemoryuk 3 years ago
So, you should blame the songwriter for a recording that lacks dynamics and detail or for a recording that becomes laden with clipping?
The songwriter has no control over what the recording engineer and mastering engineer does to the final sound, and that's the point that's being discussed here.
A live performance is filled with moments of sound that are loud and soft, so why should a recording not reproduce that as well?
Watcher3223 3 years ago 3
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Use hedphones, Even chep ones hav plenty dynamics
nitro0555 3 years ago
as a mastering engineer ur example is totally stupid. 4 1 songs released these days are mixed better according 2 what will happen during mastering. songs are also not just compressed their eq'd and multiband compressed as to be as transparent 2 the orginal mix as possible, that's what good mastering is, achiving good volume with little to no loss of quality. and frankly i own the volume knob but i dont wanna have to adjusting it every 5 minutes to compensate for 1 song being louder then another.
forsakenmemoryuk 3 years ago
nice. We never covered this in my audio production classes. Key is that educational purposes are legal for music so no worries about copyright in this case.
Bureyeanne 3 years ago
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wilkes85 3 years ago
yeah, my dad was gonna thow out his technics sl-1200, but i saved it from the trash. What an IDIOT! now i am trying to get him back to vinyl. he for some reason likes mp3's. I cant stand to be in the same room with him when he is listening to his iPod. I only have 50 albums, but for now it isnt that bad. I just order off of Amazon, or Go to my local record shop for oldies.
ocmike34 3 years ago
The Stooges - Raw Power (1997 Iggy Pop remix), enough said.
tourettes84 3 years ago
I now know why second hand CD's that have been out of print for a over 10 years sound nicer than newly relased CD's. A great video.
darkangel2347 3 years ago
Until now, I've always thought modern CDs sounded better than the ones from the 80's. I mean, the quality of the sounds, I mean the clarity is better. But the loudness is the big problem.
For example, if you listen to The Beatles 1, the audio quality is fantastic, but it doesn't respect the punch of the tracks, I mean, the real emotion, the way they were really recorded. That's sad...
carlosdangerous 3 years ago
No, what are you talking about, the audio quality's shitty too, you know, compare the sound of, mmm, Hey Jude from the 1988 CD of Past Masters Vol. 2 and the Hey Jude from the aforementioned 1. You can FEEL the build-up ("...better better better YEAH!") before the "na-na-na-na..." and the coda while the song slowly fades out on the former, while on the latter is hard to discern if the song's fading out...
tourettes84 3 years ago
Comment removed
wilkes85 3 years ago
i have a home studio with a cd mastering device. if you play a commercial cd in it, you cannot listen to it. the sound, no matter what level, is in the clip field and is nothing but distortion.....i just dont understand.
rx321j 3 years ago
Data compression is completely different to audio compression, even when used on audio. What you are complaining about is lossy data compression such as MP3s and .mov files.
j035u5 3 years ago
You know, this is just a thought, but I think that people are actually unconciously trying to compensate for this loss of dynamics anyway. The simple solution, turn it up louder. If the sound is loud enough, those things that are lost can be heard (though you get hearing loss...)
I've listened to a few older albums and I must say, I really really want to hear more of those dynamics in modern music. It's very nice if you stop focusing on the bass and listen to the rest for a change.
NazoKiyoubinbou 3 years ago
That track is not early 80's but 1989. Ignorance is bliss, huh? Listening great music with dynamics that you can turn up, and listen to without hurting your ears and that makes you want to tap your feet, is old -fashioned and whack, and listening to modern over-compressed, sonically squashed music, that hurts your ears, that causes listening fatigue, and that you can't listen to loud, and makes you want to turn down the volume instead of turning it up, is modern, and great and not-whack??
natipkan 3 years ago
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Here's an idea - if you don't like the loudness... TURN IT DOWN. :)
nonsoundflux 3 years ago
Here's an idea - if you don't have a clue, keep your piehole shut.
nightsdreamparadox 3 years ago 14
nonsoundflux, you obviously didn't get the point at all. Turning it down does not restore the dynamic range thats been lost.
redpaul79 3 years ago 4
Today's music is crap, and the mastering is just following in the same line. Talentless mumbling idiots like 50 cents are awarded the songwriter of the year awards -- the power of the media is enormous---- they will brainwash you, sell you any kind of crap, and convince you it is great, and that you need it. Modern pop-rock-rnb music is dead, and mastering has just sealed the coffin with the pressure of - 6 or 7 dB full scale.
Enjoy it, and you will surely be deaf by your 40ies.
natipkan 3 years ago 3
You'll be deaf for listening to any music above 110db regardless of WHAT music it is. You're less likely to go deaf from a fully mastered track riding at 80-90db rather than a track that sits at 90db and spikes at 120db. Turn down your radio.
nonsoundflux 3 years ago
A whole generation of kids will never get the chance to hear-learn-perceive what dynamics is, and for that matter what great sonics sound like. Industry is feeding the masses with squashed overcompressed clipped bad sounding records, and they have even managed to sell them the idea that this is the way music should sound.
natipkan 3 years ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
A wise man once said:
"Shut the hell up, seriously. You can't do shit about it, so go home."
No amount of arguing or controversy will change any of this - it's basically a bitching post for jealous mastering technicians that think they're superior to the people that are making six times your salary processing the nation's top tracks. Save your breath for a real cause guys. You're acting like a bunch of my ex wives.
nonsoundflux 3 years ago
I disagree. As a composer and audio enthusiast, I find the loudness of modern CDs to be despicable, and feel it is the responsibility of artists and fans everywhere to demand superior sound quality.
As to your fatalistic denouncement that voicing descent (i.e. "You can't so s**t about it) is tantamount to "bitching" and can never influence or change the minds of the powers that be, I know a few historical English Kings, French Aristocrats, and Russian Tsars who'd call that idea into question.
freakybuzz 3 years ago
Hm. Well as a very successful Mastering Engineer, I can assure you that most artists and fans don't notice it, & usually don't care. Loud bands love hearing their music even louder - and the loudness actually increases adrenaline & endorphins, causing a physical enjoyment to listeners... which sells more records. And in case you're out of the loop: the music industry is run by money.
So, instead of everyone flooding this forum, stop beating a dead horse. You can't and won't change it. Ciao.
nonsoundflux 3 years ago
No, I am not "out of the loop" by any means. I know of some successful Mastering and Mixing engineers who are squarely on the side of High Fidelity and against gratuitous loudness, and from them I draw both inspiration and education. I'd be willing to weigh their Grammys, Oscars, and other industry awards against yours before I tossed aside their advice.
And since when does standing up for what one believes in based on sound artistic and scientific principles amount to "beating a dead horse"?
freakybuzz 3 years ago
No, but complaining about something and not doing anything to change it a very... hippie characteristic.
I don't disagree that some engineers have a tendency to mutilate tracks to appease producers, QA, & artists - but really, it's not as bad as you're making it sound: it's a VERY minuscule amount of music that this happens to.
Ultimately, you have two easy choices: suck it up and do what they want, or get blacklisted & destroy your career.
nonsoundflux 3 years ago
"Loud bands love hearing their music even louder - and the loudness actually increases adrenaline & endorphins, causing a physical enjoyment to listeners"
I like loud music too. That's what the VOLUME KNOB is there for.
But what's this thing that is