One point for my athiest fellows. If a muslim die and there is no afterlife he has nothing to loose cuz by following Islam his apprarance and clothing might differ from trend but he has full peace n tranquility in this life. Isnt that one important or the only best part of life? He wont get to party n drink, catch std or hiv,but he s enjoying life to the fullest. Now think what will happen to an athiest who refuse to reason n reflect after what has been revealed to mankind and d cause of matters
@SultanOfSwords Firstly the word you should have used is "prove" not "proof". Secondly an atheist is somebody who lacks belief in gods, not somebody who believes something comes from nothing. Thirdly if something can't come from nothing then how did your god come about? Fourthly life can rise from inorganic matter; this is called abiogenesis and has been done in a lab. Your religion is no different from the ancient greek or pagan religions.
@TheLogicalKey If you deny the existence of a creator or an Intelligent Designer, then what do you suppose is the origin of life? Obviously, Abiogenesis, which requires a lot of faith to believe due to it's problems. Answering your ignorant point, had God been finite, he wouldn't be God. That contradicts the entire purpose of a creator. What was the force behind the Big Bang? Who created the particle in the Big Bang? Islam targets the false pagan religions, but you haven't read the Qur'an.
@deviIstudios Invoking a creator god to explain the origins of the universe raises more questions than it answers. Firstly you're doing everything backwards; first you should demonstrate such a deity can and does exist then let's talk about what he might spend his time writing or doing. Nobody says science has all the answers yet and it probably never will. However religion does not give any alternative. How can you know god is infinite or even exists?
@deviIstudios Throughout history mankind has worshipped thousands of different gods from different religions and traditions. Like Zues, Ares, Apollo, Thor, Wotan, Krishna, Sheeva, Ganesh, Mercury, Venus, Mars, Pluto, Saturn, Jesus etc. You are an atheist with regards to 99.9% of gods which people have loved, worshipped, prayed to, believed in and died for. Some of us just go one god further. It is not smart to believe the first ever story you were told as a young child; you could not judge then.
@TheLogicalKey Silly Atheist, further copying the ideas projected by their God, Richard Dawkins. Many of these "Gods" are not equivalent to the context I am using. I dislike the word God, it can be made feminine or plural. The truth is, many people have worshiped a creator, whether they call it a different name is not of importance. How do you worship God? By carrying out the good actions that human beings are naturally inclined to do, and resisting what we know is wrong. I disbelieved at first.
@deviIstudios Silly muslim blindly following like a robot because one man said he spoke to an angel at the top of a cave 1400 years ago. God means "our creator" and Allah means "our creator" but in arabic so I guess you dislike "Allah" as well haha. Your religion is not special, muhammad was a peadophile and liar, the qur'an is barbaric, I used to be a muslim and the thought of it makes me feel sick now. Not all of us pick something and then blindly follow it so Dawkins is not a god to anyone.
@deviIstudios If there is a god who made me and loves me like you claim there is then I don't think he would mind me using the brain and intellect he gave me to think RATIONALLY about my beliefs and views on the world. Did you know the character of jesus was taken from earlier pagan traditions and religions before judaism? When the story was translated from ancient hebrew to greek the hebrew for young lady was translated into virgin in greek. Thats why you think mary was a virgin, an error.
@TheLogicalKey Hmm someone who watched Zeitgeist I assume? Funny because I do not believe in the Jesus depicted by ignorant Christian theology. Yeshua ben Yosef was a real man, he was not God in the flesh. You also provided absolutely no sources for that claim, which has a weak foundation to begin with. You are committing the Logical Fallacy of Equivocation because you claim to think RATIONALLY when you clearly do the opposite when observing theology. Your arguments are very misinformed.
@deviIstudios Lol firstly no i haven't seen zeitgeist and don't plan to. Secondly i didn't say you believe in the jesus depicted by christian theology. I did not say jesus was god in the flesh. The only claim I made was that a translation error made and that is the reason mary mother of jesus is depicted as a virgin. If you are brave enough to conduct a google search to check that out then go ahead. I'ts a minor detail about a myth, doesn't mean much to me. Nothing irrational about that.
@deviIstudios Lol firstly no i haven't seen zeitgeist and don't plan to. Secondly i didn't say you believe in the jesus depicted by christian theology. I did not say jesus was god in the flesh. The only claim I made was that a translation error made and that is the reason mary mother of jesus is depicted as a virgin. If you are brave enough to conduct a google search to check that out then go ahead. I'ts a minor detail about a myth, doesn't mean much to me. Nothing irrational about that.
i just wish the guy in the video could use his brain and realise this is the only life hes gonna get and stop wasting it obeying and worshipping a fictional being .use your brain and think for yourself dont let a book do your thinking for you .
And what's your compelling evidence that the non-created infinite God exists? Let me guess - because the Quran says so? FAIL. So does the non-created infinite God interact with the finite created universe? Is there an entry portal from the infinite uncreated realm into the finite created realm? Or does the non-created infinite God occupy both realms simultaneously, and if so, where's the evidence? Oh the Quran says so... FAIL.
How about a cell. It is complex, it is finite and it has a cause. Yet is has not been created by a creator. You could say it has been 'created' be the organism it is in, but this organism certainly does not actively concern itself with the contents of that cell.
Also, what is the rationality behind the step from infinity to god? Is it because it says so in your book? That doesn't sound like a rational explanation to me...
no no no you are talking absolute nonsense all your argument is based on YOUR assumptions theres 1000s of religions bfore your koramn was thouight uits so easy to see the koranm was made up and written by humans
p , cant you see every word in your unhoily book was made by a human ////////?
Why is he talking about science studying "limits and finiteness"??? Thats NOT what science does, it seeks to understand the natural world. Period. Typical religious slight of hand argument. The rest of this is just ramble. We have a good idea of the size of the universe, and its scientists job to ask these questions. And Im assuming God is a man in islam? As in Male? Makes no sense.
has any of you fairy tale believers ever actually thought what eternity in heaven would actually be like ? eternity in heaven would be absolute tourture .imagine living a full life time on earth then arriving at heaven to spend ETERNITY worshiping and praising a god who has been playing a masssive game with you ever since you where born , its just silly nonsense .
i feel sorry for religuous people they spend the only life they get worshipping and obeying a fictional being lol
Sorry - last sentence of previous response was a cut and paste error.
So you have an "infinite and unlimited" concept of God that has no credible basis. Even if true, so what? Maybe "God" created the universe - say "God" fired off the big bang - but who is to say that "God" has any theistic properties? "A-theists" simply deny a theistic God. "Atheists" include "deists," who believe some force set off the universe but does not interact with us.
You state an analogy - we may think a body of water has infinite depth because we observe that our feet do not touch the bottom. The preponderance of evidence tells us, however, that no body of water has infinite depth. Then on what can you base your idea that God is infinite? Lots of circular reasoning in this video. Furthermore, your concept of God is "that which is infinite and unlimited."
I respect your ideology and your acceptance of the Islamic doctrine, however you say that Atheists (which I am not) maintain that there was not a cause in the creation of the universe. However, it is my understanding that Atheists speak of the "Big Bang theory" when it comes to the creation of the universe, which is a "cause", is it not? I would agree with you that something or someone must have caused the universe to exist, but a god is not the only option.
@baadfish101 The Big bang is not the Atheist creation story but a scientific model. You dont have to accept big bang cosmology or evolution to be an atheist. An atheist is someone who lacks a belief in a god/gods.
i can remember sitting in assembly at primary school at 5 years old being told storys about god / jesus etc from the bible and questioning these storys in my head , even at 5 years old i could see massive flaws in religion , if my 5 year old mind can suss out religion how is it possible that grown men today can still believe this nonsense ?
i can remember sitting in assembly at primary school at 5 years old being told storys about god / jesus etc from the bible and bealiving these storys in my head , even at 5 years old i could see the necessity in religion , if my 5 year old mind can see the greatness of religion how is it possible that grown men today can still believe this nonsense called atheism ?
@wotters12345 - classical mistake all the west makes is to conflate Islam and christianity. Christianity is a cult made after Christ, and applied in the pagan roman/greek world, i.e. outside of its Palestinian setting. Islam being the universal unchanged religion for all mankind rejected universality on compromise. Have a look at the Quran for more.
@robin4good i dont usually read fiction but if you can give me a single piece of credibal evidence that the quaran is not a fictional book i promise ill read it, ok ,deal ?
@robin4good it dosent matter dude there was people believing in gods 1000s of years before youre shitty quaran , in those times it was easy to explain the unexplained by using a fictional being .
@wotters12345 - I simply hate atheists, not because they choose to be godless immoral atheists, but because they also dare to insult other people with complete disregard. I wish you well pal, take care and have a good short life. bye.
There is nothing immoral or amoral about atheism. I have yet to meet an atheist who was not a highly ethical and moral person. The difference is that they don't need some bronze age sky daddy to demand ethical behavior of them for them to be nice. Religious people, by comparison seem to murder even when their superstition says "thou shalt not kill". As to insulting religious people, given that the religious used to kill atheists, I think a few insults are mild by comparison.
I urge you to realize that you are simply philosphically theorising rather than useing a true scientific method. One of the ultimate principles of rationality is never to jump to any conclusion. There are several reasonable explanations for the concept of a cause without a god giving the illusion of design, and it should be noted also that because man jumps to the conclusion that something is designed because it has what some see as purpose, does not mean that it is. From an agnostic theist.
The universe has a cause, and that cause is likely the big bang. I believe the argument in this video is confusing cause with purpose.
Moreover, implying the knowledge that infinite, unlimited things are not subject to cause and effect implies a knowledge that no being has ever known. How do you know such things?
And to say that your train of logic (something created the universe, but nothing created god) should stop at god is counter-intuitive to the original argument.
So do you admit that your argument (old and failed as it is) requires your god to have been created by some other greater deity? And that one too? Infinite turtles...
If the universe is not infinite then what is outside it? Perhaps god's realm, but then what is outside of that? Because if nothing can be infinite then why would god's realm be infinite? That brings us to the question what is outside of the realm outside of god's realm and so on and so forth. So where is the end? No one knows, not me, not you not god because there is no god.
Word play.Your anti-christian reasoning works just as well against your islam.I t saddens we atheists(as if we were a united group)to see intelligence such as yours wasted on childish things.All religious arguments boil down to the schoolyard taunt-my godthingy can beat your godthingy.Atheists frustrate this taunting for we have no godthingy,so believers try to give us one-science.But science isn`t metaphysical-godthingies are.Once you understand this,atheism wont haunt your dreams.
@holmsatlarge I think labeling ones self or categorizing before researching everything there is to every religion and its history and general history is slightly ignorant... I cant argue with an ''athiest'' if I dont know everything there is to know about our science advancements and theories.. and vice versa...
coming from a muslim stand point... a lot muslims speak with a lacking argument.. and thats troubling personally. doubting yourself is good makes room for questioning. same goes for me.
@weedo84 One doesn`t need to research religions,they all suffer from the same flaw--there is no god,Science has nothing to do with god ,anymore than flypaper has with automechanics.Atheism is just non-belief in god-that`s all there is to it,nothing else.Enjoy life-it`s short.
@holmsatlarge well thats definitely easier.. its also easier to say religions are the same, because its a shortcut. a flaw cant be in that context.. ''there is no god'', a 'flaw' as you put it can be for specifics.. its basically putting a full stop to a discussion. non belief or belief in god comes after the complete acquired knowledge of all things.. in religion and outside of it.. when that is over and done with you then use your mind to choose what to believe.
SIMPLE. God isnt real. Just like dragons or any other god thing that was thought up. Notice how every society that was or is isolated had their own religion. Think.
No I don't believe in a god = a supernatural all-powerful creator being. I'd go with your definition is finite and limited - maybe it is maybe it isn't. Even if the universe were infinite and unlimited, it doesn't make it a "personal god", it doesn't make this universe have any interest in us humans. Your point doesn't stand and if it did you aren't talking about islam or christianity, you're talking about deism. And no I'm not a deist and don't have to be.
"disorderd cannot lead to order". Sigh. No. Sigh. In an open system it can, and in a closed system it can locally.
Science isn't about deducing causes. It's about observing facts and prooving or disproving hypotheses based on experimental evidence.
"infinite size of universe" I don't think that's an argument, I don't think science has decided whether the universe is infinite or not (probably not).
Defining God as infinite and unlimited - But surely such a thing can't exist due to logic you said?
The greatest thing a religious person can do for their God is to be categorically told that they are wrong, that God does not exist, yet stand firm and say 'I believe'. That is Faith in the face of adversity, Faith in the face of doubt and disbelief. That is the core of religion and the relationship people have with God. It is also completely irrational and unreasonable. That is the point. Thus, religion and science simply do not mix. Your attempt to use science selectively cannot work.
Religion is NOT science. Religion does not use the scientific method. IT uses quite the opposite. Therefore, your analysis is flawed, firstly because you are denying many things that science has either proven or is reasonably certain of, and you are attempting to use science to do so, but only the science that fits with your faith. Reason simply plays no part in religion, and I just wish religious people would start to admit that. Religion is blind faith, in the face of evidence contrary to it.
I am sorry, for you seem a decent, genuine person, but science simply does NOT support your argument. science indicates a Universe that is boundless, in a manner that is puzzling to creatures accustomed to a bounded world. Science strongly indicates that life came into being spontaneously, that it evolved over millions of years, that the Universe also came into being. These are the conclusions that scientists make using the scientific method.
I do not believe in God. Simply because you make a flawed argument to suggest that I do does not make it so. Your Koran is an unscientific book. It requires simply that you belive it and worship Allah. There is no science in that relationship, simply blind faith. Therefore, for you to use science to make an argument shows a certain inherent selectivity. You select the parts of science that seem to support your argument, discarding others.
neocarvi, this is not your argument. This is a tired old argument that has been paraded out by desperate religious people for decades. It was first put forward by William Paley, a 17th century writer. A watch is NOT analagous to the universe, or to the life within it. IF you are really interested in learning about life and the universe read some of the literature that addresses your objections. Read 'The Blind Watchmaker' by Richard Dawkins.
1. Your reasoning is faulted!!! You are using your 21st century knowledge, obtained by science, to try and give reasoning as a 1st century person!!!
2. It is possible for something to be infinite and still have limits: (a) the natural numbers (1,2,...,infinity); (b) The series 1/2n, n=1,2,... is bound between 0 and 1/2 and has an infinite number of members.
3. Something can be part of an infinite group and still be finite. 1 is part of the group of natural numbers but is still finite!
Your an intelligent man. This is definently the best arguement for religion that I have ever heard but the universe is still expanding its not finite yet.
@youpoop96 - is that all you know i.e. insult rather than come up with logical answers to prove your own atheistic dogmas and beliefs! [oh yes, atheism is also a religion, don't be fooled to think otherwise].
@robin4good athiesm isnt a religion,. cult or anything else you lot try to assume. im not going to educate you and tell you what athiesm is ,as i feel its a waste of my time as i can tell your one of those people who only listens to what they want to hear , without ever thinking about things for yourself , the best thing to do is educate yourself , try doing some research into things before you make crazy statements like that .
all atheists say: atheist 'is not this, is not that, is not , is not. all in the negative! I have never heard a positive definition of atheism, so I turned to reliable dictionaries for an answer. I found that the following definition: 'a knowledge claim or a view point that there is no god', this definition is almost 90% Islamic, because Islam is: 'a knowledge claim or the view point that there is no god, save the One true God' - point is, an atheist can only revert to Islam, or die atheist.
My question for any religious faith is this? If a god created everything including the universe, light, man and so fourth... Then What did he do For gigazillions of light years before he created the very first thing, regardless of what it was? floating there all alone, no chair even; hadnt been created yet. nothing to even look at and complete darkness ..We are to believe that all of a sudden an idea popped up in his head to create things, and created man to worship him? cant buy that idea....
if we all had your sense of logic and raisonning , the mobile you have in hand wouldnt even exist , technologie is the result of scientifique thinking not superficial and wichful thinking like you are demonstrating.
@hudfadz lol typical religious response , english is my third language so it's not very important if i spell it well or not. but what about discussing the subject of the video rather than criticizing my english ?
thats a really good talk. I am a christan but I know that jesus got his power from god he prayed to good to heal people. He was gods first creation thats why we call him gods son and god did too but by no means did he have more power than god. Jehovah god created him. there is only one god but he gave his son to show how much he loves us. jesus died for our sins so when we die we will be forgiven
We do not dispute that everything in existence should have a cause. We just think it is a little to rash to assume anything about the cause because we have no evidence for the cause itself.
The problem we have with religion is that you attribute the cause w/o any type of evidence to back up your claim (ie that the cause is infinite and unlimited).
Truth is, the more you assume about something you know must exist but have no evidence for (the cause) the less probable your claim will be.
blah blah blah Intelligent design blah blah. If I wanted to listen to an idiot ramble on without a point I would just watch Glenn Beck. This video was infinitely terrible, so imma worship it
So we can't claim the universe isn't infinite simply because we can't see the edges? Yet, we can claim that god is infinite? (How do you know that?) Congratulations, you just made assertions that you can't prove in order to prove your god. Your logic may be valid, but it is not sound.
All Irish men are green. John is an Irish man. Therefore, John is green. That is valid, but not sound, because the first premise is not necessarily true, same as god being infinite and limitless.
Wait a minute, so the man who created the cellphone is unlimeted? Never mind that rubbish more important questions to ask. If God was the one true unlimeted being and everything else is limited then god who is omnipotent has limitations as to what he can create...given a limited space to work with, as giant it is, still limited. all arguments of religion will always contradict themselves. Why would god or allah use a man made book to describe omnipotent power...OMNIPOTENT yet mute
There are three main arguments against the Watchmaker analogy. The first is that complex artifacts do not, in fact, require a designer, but can and do arise from "mindless" natural processes (as in the "Infinite Monkey Theorem"). The second argument is that the watch is a faulty analogy. The third argument is that the watchmaker is arguably a far more complex organism than the watch, and if complexity proves intelligent design, then the question arises: who designed such a complex designer?
this is such an old argument. an important question, but the argument has moved on from here, the one the speaker puts here is unconvincing and clearly needs to do a bit more reading against his position. plus I could have asked the same question 50 times more succinctly.
hahaha i have no problem with religion i just hate religions that COVER THEIR WOMEN AND PUT THEM BELOW MEN!!! the ones that have stupid laws ( all of them ) the ones that are fucking crazy ( mostly retards in the desert killing people and wasting life while being a waste of life. yeah fuck you and your idols. btw your in a house do you need your fancy hat or DO YOU WANT TO BE A REBEL!!!!!!! haha oh god modern manhood never hit you did it?
Science will evntually wipe out Religion, I became an ATheist at the age of 13, it is not that hard to learn that all Religions are fucking crazy, Islam is in first right now of crazyness
For Paley it was a watch, for this numpty it's a mobile phone. Get some new, rational, arguments not some second hand, long since discredited clap trap. Appearance of design is not evidence for design, unless the rules of logic have been somehow twisted in your particular universe. As for the statement "as we know, disorder does not lead to order" patently wrong in this instance as the "disordered" elements that make up a mobile phone have been "ordered" into a functional device.
For Paley it was a watch, for this numpty it's a mobile phone. Get some new, rational, arguments not some second hand, long since discredited clap trap. Appearance of design is not evidence for design, unless the rules of logic have been somehow twisted in your particular universe. As for the statement "as we know, disorder does not lead to order" patently wrong in this instance as the "disordered" elements that make up a mobile phone have been "ordered" into a functional device.
there's not a single proof of god in this video, you just came out with the hipothesis of the universe being finite...and that's not even a evidence for god's existence...to come up with proofs u first got to came up with evidences...test them to see if they are irrefutable evidences that favor ur theory only then u may say u got proofs
You have made the best argument I have ever heard for "God". However. Your answer for what we don't understand is that Allah or God had to of produced it. Yet you have no proof that space is limited. If i make the argument that the Sun is God because without it there would be no life here on Earth. How can anybody argue that. Therefor The belief in the Sun holds more credit than any religion.
Also, you chose a religion where we know that Muhammad was a warlord and personally beheaded hundreds
So you just wake up one morning, decide some concepts without any proof to be facts and thats it.
How ridiculous, and this this is supposed to be rational ?
The cell phone is a product of small steps, thousands of people contributing to science (plastics, chemicals, physics), know how from many companies, and many people putting together their work.
No man can come from a baby to making a cellphone by himself.
So why don't you believe in 1 trillion gods working together ?
A nice try, shame your argument has been debunked a long time ago. You seem to be a rational individual though so its nice to see you are thinking. You do need to stop making assumptions like "we know that the universe has to have had a cause", that's where your logic is falling down. But keep it up, once you start down the road of rational thought, the answers will come in the end.
I really like you. I'm no believer, but I give you my respect! I've always had this stereotypical view of muslims as extremists (my ignorance - my flaw), but you've proven me wrong. I'm not saying your "watchmaker" theory proves for Allah, but you're thinking and you seem very educated.
But why would "god" create a human that disbelieves him? Why doesn't he try to prove himself? "God" accepts everyone because "jesus" died for our sins. Well how come then there are still sins and when someone does drugs, they still go to hell? Every religion goes against itself which makes it illogical. Also the universe is expanding. That's been proven. Maybe if "god" or "allah" is real, then they are very upset with us humans that he's trying to move away...
@stillstandin4you This is precisely where the "something must come from something" argument falls down. If we need something to make something then who made god? and who made god's god? and who made god's god's god? etc.. ad nauseum. The silliness of the whole thing becomes quickly obvious :)
I know about cell phones that humans design and create them - that they are produced in factories, contain circuitry, silicon chips... I could probably find a schematic for a phone on the internet. I do not know, in any scenario, that humans are capable of creating planets and stars. Your intelligent design argument fails to extend past the boundaries of human development. It proves nothing about God... just that you think cell phone and a solar system are equivalent in complexity
I must say this makes alot more sense than any pro-athiest or pro-religion (sorry for grouping them, but there is alot) and has the ONLY honest title to date by saying it is rational.
FYI, I am christian but take on many athiest veiws. i.e.evolution, and to date i can still not understand how everyone cant just deal with each others beliefs, and i agree with the muslim aspect of jesus being limited as he is a MAN.
Rational indeed I'm an atheist and I must say this response is much calmer and more fact based than certain other arguments "presented" by theists, nice job
You should understand, in order for scientific principles, laws and theories to be relevant they must always be bound to happen, not by random chance, understand that information.
This person (and I use the term loosely) talking is the reason why 'stupid' was invented. He probably contradicted himself more times than I can count.
I've, of coarse, herd the same argument from Christians. Regardless of the source, it misses the point. God - Allah or Christian Triune God - is a human like Entity. It has a personality (emotions, motivations, so forth). There is no way one can infer this from the existence of the universe. In fact, that is counter intuitive: a superficial understanding of biology shows that emotions & motivations have thier basis in biochemistry & the structure of the brain.
... im atheist all the way ,i dont agree with this video .... but ill give him some points , he didnt try to convince us with some quran quotes or some scriptures
Evolutionists i have a challenge for u and for ur god darwin XD!!! if the most important and basic molecule in all living organisms that carry the blue prints of their entire existence RNA/DNA is made up of an important component the ribose backbone how would it have been reproduced without the presence of glucose which we all know come from the most critical process photosynthesis!!!! WAZZAAAAP XD
Evolutionists i have a challenge for u and for ur god darwin XD!!! if the most important and basic molecule in all living organisms that carry the blue prints of their entire existence RNA/DNA is made up of an important component the ribose backbone how would it have been reproduced without the presence of glucose which we all know come from the most critical process photosynthesis!!!! WAZZAAAAP XD
its like saying if u throw a duck at a wall with a certain velocity after billions and billions of times one time it will splatter into the mona lisa!!!! well let me tell u in plain simple words its Fucking improbable!!! if u still believe in this atheism evolution facade check this out /watch?v=q1iCjKWzeEE
fuck this fossil shit i have had it up to here with it all u atheists do is billions and billions and billions WTF!!!! didnt u just halt for a moment and think what if the fossils we found are remains of far extinct species like dinosaurs or woolly mammoth for example it so absurd its like coming 2 million years from now and finding a dodo's fossil and saying ah well its the ancestor of the chicken!!! playing word games around this probability shit ofeverything just madeitself is so ridiculous
for all of u christians who think that this guy is wrong and that he is a diaper/towel head go fuck urself. your idea of religion is no more far fetched as his whos to say that UR RELIGION IS WRONG actually i am bc im an atheist so dont go persecuting other peoples religion bc ur religion is just as fucking stupid and anyone who thinks im wrong reply back id love to explain it again :D
Huh?? This is bullshit. I think they call that a cellphone, you stupid towelhead. I got to ask, do you use the towel for wipe your ass when you go into an Allah sanctioned shitter.
@dancingplatypus What? No it hasn't. I'm no theist and a firm believer of science, but we have not found the "edge" of the universe, not by a long shot.
SCIENCE created that phone you're holding in your hand, not god, and because of SCENCE you are now able to record yourself while talking and post it on the internet, not because of god, so, limited or not, if I were you, I'd pray to science, cause you seem to enjoy what it has given to you.
The "Watchmaker" argument holds no water and stands as no proof of God/Allah/Bob.
What it demonstrates is our own lack of knowledge.
"God done it." is not an argument.
Religions - yours and the one I tossed a long time ago - have no explanations of anything. They do, however, demonstrate our own credulity and willingness to believe just about any pile of crap that is put in front of us - if they get us early enough.
@Xmuxxue islam and science are based on facts while atheism is only based on theories without any single proof until now and were still waiting and waiting and waiting . yawn...
@tripleOG187 Islam is based on science? What a wild and ridiculous assertion. Also, atheism doesn't make any sweeping claims and absolute truths like most religion, including Islam. Atheists merely assert that there is no credible evidence or reason to support the existence of a god, let alone the god of the Abrahamic religions.
@MrNightShadowX yea and i just think that islam is natural, anyone with a functioning brain should accept islam. but ppl are just too lazy to make some studies, theyre lazy and they already know everything... :-) peace
@tripleOG187 Sure ........ ........ .....///>>>> I respect what you think but your logic is so far gone, that is a waste of time trying to explain the basics of real science. Thanks and by the way, The only true GOD is the almighty Flying Spaghetti Monster, Peace
@ProudMuslim2010 Yes, I've heard about many of the scientific ideas of the ancient Greeks that made it into the Koran. Why those didn't make it into the New Testament when the authors wrote in Greek? That I'm not entirely sure about, other than the focus was highly on Jesus.
and leave the burden on him to teach the entire world? why should we take the prophets word? why should we believe him? why did he choose a male prophet? why didnt he choose a better method to teach the truth? why didnt he just telepathically reveal himself to all the world and leave the burden to no one? why?
Typical argument and tons of circular logic. Islam is shit, I hope this guy and his supporters get aids and die. (sorry aids patients)
BlackBoxofPandora 2 months ago
Thank you for this amazing video.
AbdudeBeats 2 months ago
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John 14:6 - Jesus said to him, “I am the way, and the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.
gilbert4321 3 months ago
One point for my athiest fellows. If a muslim die and there is no afterlife he has nothing to loose cuz by following Islam his apprarance and clothing might differ from trend but he has full peace n tranquility in this life. Isnt that one important or the only best part of life? He wont get to party n drink, catch std or hiv,but he s enjoying life to the fullest. Now think what will happen to an athiest who refuse to reason n reflect after what has been revealed to mankind and d cause of matters
bewareofdajjal 4 months ago
Can any Atheist brother proof to me that (From nothing, comes something).
SultanOfSwords 5 months ago
@SultanOfSwords Firstly the word you should have used is "prove" not "proof". Secondly an atheist is somebody who lacks belief in gods, not somebody who believes something comes from nothing. Thirdly if something can't come from nothing then how did your god come about? Fourthly life can rise from inorganic matter; this is called abiogenesis and has been done in a lab. Your religion is no different from the ancient greek or pagan religions.
TheLogicalKey 5 months ago
@TheLogicalKey If you deny the existence of a creator or an Intelligent Designer, then what do you suppose is the origin of life? Obviously, Abiogenesis, which requires a lot of faith to believe due to it's problems. Answering your ignorant point, had God been finite, he wouldn't be God. That contradicts the entire purpose of a creator. What was the force behind the Big Bang? Who created the particle in the Big Bang? Islam targets the false pagan religions, but you haven't read the Qur'an.
deviIstudios 5 months ago 3
@deviIstudios Invoking a creator god to explain the origins of the universe raises more questions than it answers. Firstly you're doing everything backwards; first you should demonstrate such a deity can and does exist then let's talk about what he might spend his time writing or doing. Nobody says science has all the answers yet and it probably never will. However religion does not give any alternative. How can you know god is infinite or even exists?
TheLogicalKey 5 months ago
@deviIstudios Throughout history mankind has worshipped thousands of different gods from different religions and traditions. Like Zues, Ares, Apollo, Thor, Wotan, Krishna, Sheeva, Ganesh, Mercury, Venus, Mars, Pluto, Saturn, Jesus etc. You are an atheist with regards to 99.9% of gods which people have loved, worshipped, prayed to, believed in and died for. Some of us just go one god further. It is not smart to believe the first ever story you were told as a young child; you could not judge then.
TheLogicalKey 5 months ago
@TheLogicalKey Silly Atheist, further copying the ideas projected by their God, Richard Dawkins. Many of these "Gods" are not equivalent to the context I am using. I dislike the word God, it can be made feminine or plural. The truth is, many people have worshiped a creator, whether they call it a different name is not of importance. How do you worship God? By carrying out the good actions that human beings are naturally inclined to do, and resisting what we know is wrong. I disbelieved at first.
deviIstudios 5 months ago
@deviIstudios Silly muslim blindly following like a robot because one man said he spoke to an angel at the top of a cave 1400 years ago. God means "our creator" and Allah means "our creator" but in arabic so I guess you dislike "Allah" as well haha. Your religion is not special, muhammad was a peadophile and liar, the qur'an is barbaric, I used to be a muslim and the thought of it makes me feel sick now. Not all of us pick something and then blindly follow it so Dawkins is not a god to anyone.
TheLogicalKey 5 months ago
@deviIstudios If there is a god who made me and loves me like you claim there is then I don't think he would mind me using the brain and intellect he gave me to think RATIONALLY about my beliefs and views on the world. Did you know the character of jesus was taken from earlier pagan traditions and religions before judaism? When the story was translated from ancient hebrew to greek the hebrew for young lady was translated into virgin in greek. Thats why you think mary was a virgin, an error.
TheLogicalKey 5 months ago
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deviIstudios 5 months ago
@TheLogicalKey Hmm someone who watched Zeitgeist I assume? Funny because I do not believe in the Jesus depicted by ignorant Christian theology. Yeshua ben Yosef was a real man, he was not God in the flesh. You also provided absolutely no sources for that claim, which has a weak foundation to begin with. You are committing the Logical Fallacy of Equivocation because you claim to think RATIONALLY when you clearly do the opposite when observing theology. Your arguments are very misinformed.
deviIstudios 5 months ago
@deviIstudios Lol firstly no i haven't seen zeitgeist and don't plan to. Secondly i didn't say you believe in the jesus depicted by christian theology. I did not say jesus was god in the flesh. The only claim I made was that a translation error made and that is the reason mary mother of jesus is depicted as a virgin. If you are brave enough to conduct a google search to check that out then go ahead. I'ts a minor detail about a myth, doesn't mean much to me. Nothing irrational about that.
TheLogicalKey 5 months ago
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@deviIstudios Lol firstly no i haven't seen zeitgeist and don't plan to. Secondly i didn't say you believe in the jesus depicted by christian theology. I did not say jesus was god in the flesh. The only claim I made was that a translation error made and that is the reason mary mother of jesus is depicted as a virgin. If you are brave enough to conduct a google search to check that out then go ahead. I'ts a minor detail about a myth, doesn't mean much to me. Nothing irrational about that.
TheLogicalKey 5 months ago
Let's assume that everything you say is correct (just for the sake of argumen) it still does not prove YOUR god or ANY other...
snajperWkrzaku 7 months ago
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TRUE goodness is trying to help people even with the fact that none of it will matter when you're dead. - An Atheist
redrum41987 7 months ago in playlist BOOK CASE Against ATHEISM for God
i just wish the guy in the video could use his brain and realise this is the only life hes gonna get and stop wasting it obeying and worshipping a fictional being .use your brain and think for yourself dont let a book do your thinking for you .
wotters12345 7 months ago
This is completely nonsensical.
mookerification 7 months ago
And what's your compelling evidence that the non-created infinite God exists? Let me guess - because the Quran says so? FAIL. So does the non-created infinite God interact with the finite created universe? Is there an entry portal from the infinite uncreated realm into the finite created realm? Or does the non-created infinite God occupy both realms simultaneously, and if so, where's the evidence? Oh the Quran says so... FAIL.
slyfoxrocks 8 months ago
Hahaha.... "rational" .... HAHAHAHAHA
CRUSH3Rdlux 8 months ago
haha extremist muslum scientist thats funny
MultiBrenda1970 8 months ago
How about a cell. It is complex, it is finite and it has a cause. Yet is has not been created by a creator. You could say it has been 'created' be the organism it is in, but this organism certainly does not actively concern itself with the contents of that cell.
Also, what is the rationality behind the step from infinity to god? Is it because it says so in your book? That doesn't sound like a rational explanation to me...
RationalAtheism 8 months ago
Order can be made from chaos.
From the Big Bang, to the formation of the Earth the evidence is massive.
TheAmorri 8 months ago
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TheAmorri 8 months ago
no no no you are talking absolute nonsense all your argument is based on YOUR assumptions theres 1000s of religions bfore your koramn was thouight uits so easy to see the koranm was made up and written by humans
p , cant you see every word in your unhoily book was made by a human ////////?
wotters12345 8 months ago
Why is he talking about science studying "limits and finiteness"??? Thats NOT what science does, it seeks to understand the natural world. Period. Typical religious slight of hand argument. The rest of this is just ramble. We have a good idea of the size of the universe, and its scientists job to ask these questions. And Im assuming God is a man in islam? As in Male? Makes no sense.
slippy441 8 months ago
I read 'Islamic Rational' and my head exploded.
BlckSbthMan 8 months ago
What causes a god?
kinro4 8 months ago
has any of you fairy tale believers ever actually thought what eternity in heaven would actually be like ? eternity in heaven would be absolute tourture .imagine living a full life time on earth then arriving at heaven to spend ETERNITY worshiping and praising a god who has been playing a masssive game with you ever since you where born , its just silly nonsense .
i feel sorry for religuous people they spend the only life they get worshipping and obeying a fictional being lol
wotters12345 9 months ago
Sorry - last sentence of previous response was a cut and paste error.
So you have an "infinite and unlimited" concept of God that has no credible basis. Even if true, so what? Maybe "God" created the universe - say "God" fired off the big bang - but who is to say that "God" has any theistic properties? "A-theists" simply deny a theistic God. "Atheists" include "deists," who believe some force set off the universe but does not interact with us.
zaphod71828 9 months ago
You state an analogy - we may think a body of water has infinite depth because we observe that our feet do not touch the bottom. The preponderance of evidence tells us, however, that no body of water has infinite depth. Then on what can you base your idea that God is infinite? Lots of circular reasoning in this video. Furthermore, your concept of God is "that which is infinite and unlimited."
zaphod71828 9 months ago
How dare you say what a Scientist thinks or does!
You have no idea.
What a scientist never should do is start with a conclusion.
judgewest2000 9 months ago
I respect your ideology and your acceptance of the Islamic doctrine, however you say that Atheists (which I am not) maintain that there was not a cause in the creation of the universe. However, it is my understanding that Atheists speak of the "Big Bang theory" when it comes to the creation of the universe, which is a "cause", is it not? I would agree with you that something or someone must have caused the universe to exist, but a god is not the only option.
baadfish101 10 months ago
@baadfish101 The Big bang is not the Atheist creation story but a scientific model. You dont have to accept big bang cosmology or evolution to be an atheist. An atheist is someone who lacks a belief in a god/gods.
moh490234890238490 9 months ago
@assym2006 its suprising what you can get someone to believe if thats all they are taught from birth
wotters12345 10 months ago
look dude , your fancy words dont proove god and I dont believe in characters I imagined up out of my imagination .
MsPrincessCaroline 10 months ago
i can remember sitting in assembly at primary school at 5 years old being told storys about god / jesus etc from the bible and questioning these storys in my head , even at 5 years old i could see massive flaws in religion , if my 5 year old mind can suss out religion how is it possible that grown men today can still believe this nonsense ?
wotters12345 1 year ago 10
@wotters12345
i can remember sitting in assembly at primary school at 5 years old being told storys about god / jesus etc from the bible and bealiving these storys in my head , even at 5 years old i could see the necessity in religion , if my 5 year old mind can see the greatness of religion how is it possible that grown men today can still believe this nonsense called atheism ?
TheMuslimSpeaker 10 months ago
@wotters12345 well islam is not at all like christianity
wo0ozie 9 months ago
@wotters12345 - classical mistake all the west makes is to conflate Islam and christianity. Christianity is a cult made after Christ, and applied in the pagan roman/greek world, i.e. outside of its Palestinian setting. Islam being the universal unchanged religion for all mankind rejected universality on compromise. Have a look at the Quran for more.
robin4good 8 months ago
@robin4good i dont usually read fiction but if you can give me a single piece of credibal evidence that the quaran is not a fictional book i promise ill read it, ok ,deal ?
wotters12345 8 months ago
@robin4good it dosent matter dude there was people believing in gods 1000s of years before youre shitty quaran , in those times it was easy to explain the unexplained by using a fictional being .
wotters12345 8 months ago
@wotters12345 - I simply hate atheists, not because they choose to be godless immoral atheists, but because they also dare to insult other people with complete disregard. I wish you well pal, take care and have a good short life. bye.
robin4good 8 months ago
@robin4good
There is nothing immoral or amoral about atheism. I have yet to meet an atheist who was not a highly ethical and moral person. The difference is that they don't need some bronze age sky daddy to demand ethical behavior of them for them to be nice. Religious people, by comparison seem to murder even when their superstition says "thou shalt not kill". As to insulting religious people, given that the religious used to kill atheists, I think a few insults are mild by comparison.
formless777 8 months ago
You lost me at "Islamic rational".
KakiharaVoorhees 1 year ago
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@KakiharaVoorhees - prove it otherwise.
robin4good 11 months ago
I urge you to realize that you are simply philosphically theorising rather than useing a true scientific method. One of the ultimate principles of rationality is never to jump to any conclusion. There are several reasonable explanations for the concept of a cause without a god giving the illusion of design, and it should be noted also that because man jumps to the conclusion that something is designed because it has what some see as purpose, does not mean that it is. From an agnostic theist.
dante277 1 year ago
The universe has a cause, and that cause is likely the big bang. I believe the argument in this video is confusing cause with purpose.
Moreover, implying the knowledge that infinite, unlimited things are not subject to cause and effect implies a knowledge that no being has ever known. How do you know such things?
And to say that your train of logic (something created the universe, but nothing created god) should stop at god is counter-intuitive to the original argument.
I guess I don't get it
FrostuMcPenos 1 year ago
So do you admit that your argument (old and failed as it is) requires your god to have been created by some other greater deity? And that one too? Infinite turtles...
wrjamescom 1 year ago
these people are fools lol. Truly they will get theirs in the hereafter. To all you atheists-be extra careful and don't die haha.
torontoraps8 1 year ago
If the universe is not infinite then what is outside it? Perhaps god's realm, but then what is outside of that? Because if nothing can be infinite then why would god's realm be infinite? That brings us to the question what is outside of the realm outside of god's realm and so on and so forth. So where is the end? No one knows, not me, not you not god because there is no god.
mrglory100 1 year ago
Word play.Your anti-christian reasoning works just as well against your islam.I t saddens we atheists(as if we were a united group)to see intelligence such as yours wasted on childish things.All religious arguments boil down to the schoolyard taunt-my godthingy can beat your godthingy.Atheists frustrate this taunting for we have no godthingy,so believers try to give us one-science.But science isn`t metaphysical-godthingies are.Once you understand this,atheism wont haunt your dreams.
holmsatlarge 1 year ago
@holmsatlarge I think labeling ones self or categorizing before researching everything there is to every religion and its history and general history is slightly ignorant... I cant argue with an ''athiest'' if I dont know everything there is to know about our science advancements and theories.. and vice versa...
coming from a muslim stand point... a lot muslims speak with a lacking argument.. and thats troubling personally. doubting yourself is good makes room for questioning. same goes for me.
weedo84 1 year ago
@weedo84 One doesn`t need to research religions,they all suffer from the same flaw--there is no god,Science has nothing to do with god ,anymore than flypaper has with automechanics.Atheism is just non-belief in god-that`s all there is to it,nothing else.Enjoy life-it`s short.
holmsatlarge 1 year ago
@holmsatlarge well thats definitely easier.. its also easier to say religions are the same, because its a shortcut. a flaw cant be in that context.. ''there is no god'', a 'flaw' as you put it can be for specifics.. its basically putting a full stop to a discussion. non belief or belief in god comes after the complete acquired knowledge of all things.. in religion and outside of it.. when that is over and done with you then use your mind to choose what to believe.
weedo84 1 year ago
Islam is debunked its been proven why don't use your brain to see that one if your so smart.
wachnathan 1 year ago
Atheism isn't a belief its a none belief it least get that part right.
wachnathan 1 year ago
If 2000 years ago you found a cell phone you would WORSHIP it as god and leave islam.
Would any god chose as his messenger a man who had sex with a 9 year old girl?
Who raped slaves?
Who killed people?
sirjambo 1 year ago
@sirjambo your assuming that god is good, but point taken.
Moh5Itachi1 1 year ago
SIMPLE. God isnt real. Just like dragons or any other god thing that was thought up. Notice how every society that was or is isolated had their own religion. Think.
TheDonutFox 1 year ago
isnt it time for you to put your suicide vest on so you can have your 72 world of warcraft players?
musaf22 1 year ago
ALLAHU AKBAR
kyleisreallycool 1 year ago
"We all believe in a god, all of us".
No I don't believe in a god = a supernatural all-powerful creator being. I'd go with your definition is finite and limited - maybe it is maybe it isn't. Even if the universe were infinite and unlimited, it doesn't make it a "personal god", it doesn't make this universe have any interest in us humans. Your point doesn't stand and if it did you aren't talking about islam or christianity, you're talking about deism. And no I'm not a deist and don't have to be.
8DX 1 year ago
"disorderd cannot lead to order". Sigh. No. Sigh. In an open system it can, and in a closed system it can locally.
Science isn't about deducing causes. It's about observing facts and prooving or disproving hypotheses based on experimental evidence.
"infinite size of universe" I don't think that's an argument, I don't think science has decided whether the universe is infinite or not (probably not).
Defining God as infinite and unlimited - But surely such a thing can't exist due to logic you said?
8DX 1 year ago
The greatest thing a religious person can do for their God is to be categorically told that they are wrong, that God does not exist, yet stand firm and say 'I believe'. That is Faith in the face of adversity, Faith in the face of doubt and disbelief. That is the core of religion and the relationship people have with God. It is also completely irrational and unreasonable. That is the point. Thus, religion and science simply do not mix. Your attempt to use science selectively cannot work.
ptolemyauletesXII 1 year ago
Religion is NOT science. Religion does not use the scientific method. IT uses quite the opposite. Therefore, your analysis is flawed, firstly because you are denying many things that science has either proven or is reasonably certain of, and you are attempting to use science to do so, but only the science that fits with your faith. Reason simply plays no part in religion, and I just wish religious people would start to admit that. Religion is blind faith, in the face of evidence contrary to it.
ptolemyauletesXII 1 year ago
I am sorry, for you seem a decent, genuine person, but science simply does NOT support your argument. science indicates a Universe that is boundless, in a manner that is puzzling to creatures accustomed to a bounded world. Science strongly indicates that life came into being spontaneously, that it evolved over millions of years, that the Universe also came into being. These are the conclusions that scientists make using the scientific method.
ptolemyauletesXII 1 year ago
I do not believe in God. Simply because you make a flawed argument to suggest that I do does not make it so. Your Koran is an unscientific book. It requires simply that you belive it and worship Allah. There is no science in that relationship, simply blind faith. Therefore, for you to use science to make an argument shows a certain inherent selectivity. You select the parts of science that seem to support your argument, discarding others.
ptolemyauletesXII 1 year ago
neocarvi, this is not your argument. This is a tired old argument that has been paraded out by desperate religious people for decades. It was first put forward by William Paley, a 17th century writer. A watch is NOT analagous to the universe, or to the life within it. IF you are really interested in learning about life and the universe read some of the literature that addresses your objections. Read 'The Blind Watchmaker' by Richard Dawkins.
ptolemyauletesXII 1 year ago
neocarvi,
1. Your reasoning is faulted!!! You are using your 21st century knowledge, obtained by science, to try and give reasoning as a 1st century person!!!
2. It is possible for something to be infinite and still have limits: (a) the natural numbers (1,2,...,infinity); (b) The series 1/2n, n=1,2,... is bound between 0 and 1/2 and has an infinite number of members.
3. Something can be part of an infinite group and still be finite. 1 is part of the group of natural numbers but is still finite!
fassstar 1 year ago
Your an intelligent man. This is definently the best arguement for religion that I have ever heard but the universe is still expanding its not finite yet.
7mqqnshlne92 1 year ago
religion sucks.
youpoop96 1 year ago 19
@youpoop96 - is that all you know i.e. insult rather than come up with logical answers to prove your own atheistic dogmas and beliefs! [oh yes, atheism is also a religion, don't be fooled to think otherwise].
robin4good 11 months ago
@robin4good athiesm isnt a religion,. cult or anything else you lot try to assume. im not going to educate you and tell you what athiesm is ,as i feel its a waste of my time as i can tell your one of those people who only listens to what they want to hear , without ever thinking about things for yourself , the best thing to do is educate yourself , try doing some research into things before you make crazy statements like that .
wotters12345 9 months ago
all atheists say: atheist 'is not this, is not that, is not , is not. all in the negative! I have never heard a positive definition of atheism, so I turned to reliable dictionaries for an answer. I found that the following definition: 'a knowledge claim or a view point that there is no god', this definition is almost 90% Islamic, because Islam is: 'a knowledge claim or the view point that there is no god, save the One true God' - point is, an atheist can only revert to Islam, or die atheist.
robin4good 9 months ago
can god create stone, which he would be unable to lift?
Whatever answer, yes or no, god is limited, so it has to have its cause.
Well done, neocarvi, you just disproved your god.
Kibernautas 1 year ago
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Kibernautas 1 year ago
so what does your god say about dinosaurs? when did they come about? before or after your god got bored sitting in alone in the dark?
blitz3 1 year ago
My question for any religious faith is this? If a god created everything including the universe, light, man and so fourth... Then What did he do For gigazillions of light years before he created the very first thing, regardless of what it was? floating there all alone, no chair even; hadnt been created yet. nothing to even look at and complete darkness ..We are to believe that all of a sudden an idea popped up in his head to create things, and created man to worship him? cant buy that idea....
vmax4ya 1 year ago
if we all had your sense of logic and raisonning , the mobile you have in hand wouldnt even exist , technologie is the result of scientifique thinking not superficial and wichful thinking like you are demonstrating.
icestation1978 1 year ago
@icestation1978
Learn to spell before you blabb rubbish. He was not insulting science
hudfadz 1 year ago
@hudfadz lol typical religious response , english is my third language so it's not very important if i spell it well or not. but what about discussing the subject of the video rather than criticizing my english ?
icestation1978 1 year ago
thats a really good talk. I am a christan but I know that jesus got his power from god he prayed to good to heal people. He was gods first creation thats why we call him gods son and god did too but by no means did he have more power than god. Jehovah god created him. there is only one god but he gave his son to show how much he loves us. jesus died for our sins so when we die we will be forgiven
zethystar 1 year ago
We do not dispute that everything in existence should have a cause. We just think it is a little to rash to assume anything about the cause because we have no evidence for the cause itself.
The problem we have with religion is that you attribute the cause w/o any type of evidence to back up your claim (ie that the cause is infinite and unlimited).
Truth is, the more you assume about something you know must exist but have no evidence for (the cause) the less probable your claim will be.
Sahrinzs 1 year ago
One thing comes to mind listening to this guy: 'Stupidity is a bless for religion.'
Paperinjerate 1 year ago
blah blah blah Intelligent design blah blah. If I wanted to listen to an idiot ramble on without a point I would just watch Glenn Beck. This video was infinitely terrible, so imma worship it
sam4084 1 year ago
could you clarify your point about infinteness. does infiniteness imply god? is that the point of your "proof"
garenth1988 1 year ago
We are all dust in the wind, no more.....deal with it!
spammey 1 year ago
So we can't claim the universe isn't infinite simply because we can't see the edges? Yet, we can claim that god is infinite? (How do you know that?) Congratulations, you just made assertions that you can't prove in order to prove your god. Your logic may be valid, but it is not sound.
All Irish men are green. John is an Irish man. Therefore, John is green. That is valid, but not sound, because the first premise is not necessarily true, same as god being infinite and limitless.
lgbuzals 1 year ago
@lgbuzals the only thing i concluded is that stupidity is infinite...............
robot014 1 year ago
Wait a minute, so the man who created the cellphone is unlimeted? Never mind that rubbish more important questions to ask. If God was the one true unlimeted being and everything else is limited then god who is omnipotent has limitations as to what he can create...given a limited space to work with, as giant it is, still limited. all arguments of religion will always contradict themselves. Why would god or allah use a man made book to describe omnipotent power...OMNIPOTENT yet mute
Ninjaonshrooms 1 year ago
There are three main arguments against the Watchmaker analogy. The first is that complex artifacts do not, in fact, require a designer, but can and do arise from "mindless" natural processes (as in the "Infinite Monkey Theorem"). The second argument is that the watch is a faulty analogy. The third argument is that the watchmaker is arguably a far more complex organism than the watch, and if complexity proves intelligent design, then the question arises: who designed such a complex designer?
WR0NGFITMENT 1 year ago
they gave you monkeys phones?
WR0NGFITMENT 1 year ago
yes, atheism is as much a religion as, not collecting stamps is a hobby, or not smoking is a habit.
Multimorten 1 year ago
Your using an argument from ignorance! Just because you dont fully understand how something works, doesnt mean God made it.
kevbrav 1 year ago
@kevbrav
God created things we dont and DO understand.
hudfadz 1 year ago
this is such an old argument. an important question, but the argument has moved on from here, the one the speaker puts here is unconvincing and clearly needs to do a bit more reading against his position. plus I could have asked the same question 50 times more succinctly.
cambridgeecon 1 year ago
i just a finite object into your mom's vagina
sargentD808 1 year ago
hahaha i have no problem with religion i just hate religions that COVER THEIR WOMEN AND PUT THEM BELOW MEN!!! the ones that have stupid laws ( all of them ) the ones that are fucking crazy ( mostly retards in the desert killing people and wasting life while being a waste of life. yeah fuck you and your idols. btw your in a house do you need your fancy hat or DO YOU WANT TO BE A REBEL!!!!!!! haha oh god modern manhood never hit you did it?
carnifexdeathcore 1 year ago
Science will evntually wipe out Religion, I became an ATheist at the age of 13, it is not that hard to learn that all Religions are fucking crazy, Islam is in first right now of crazyness
edgarreyes14 1 year ago
SIimple.
Science = Observation
Religion = Faith.
The phone in the desert hundres of years ago, you would be able to convince everyone you were a god and could do magic.
By the way 50 years ago no one would recognise it as a phone.
Because we are here and we can observe therefore thier is a god WTF.
That is not an argument. Your bottemless exsample you answered yourself and had to change it the assumtion was proved wrong ha ha ha.
Use you brain you obviously have one, not a holy book.
VideoAudioDisco09 1 year ago
For Paley it was a watch, for this numpty it's a mobile phone. Get some new, rational, arguments not some second hand, long since discredited clap trap. Appearance of design is not evidence for design, unless the rules of logic have been somehow twisted in your particular universe. As for the statement "as we know, disorder does not lead to order" patently wrong in this instance as the "disordered" elements that make up a mobile phone have been "ordered" into a functional device.
BobsOldSocks 1 year ago
For Paley it was a watch, for this numpty it's a mobile phone. Get some new, rational, arguments not some second hand, long since discredited clap trap. Appearance of design is not evidence for design, unless the rules of logic have been somehow twisted in your particular universe. As for the statement "as we know, disorder does not lead to order" patently wrong in this instance as the "disordered" elements that make up a mobile phone have been "ordered" into a functional device.
BobsOldSocks 1 year ago
there's not a single proof of god in this video, you just came out with the hipothesis of the universe being finite...and that's not even a evidence for god's existence...to come up with proofs u first got to came up with evidences...test them to see if they are irrefutable evidences that favor ur theory only then u may say u got proofs
cuscardo 1 year ago
You have made the best argument I have ever heard for "God". However. Your answer for what we don't understand is that Allah or God had to of produced it. Yet you have no proof that space is limited. If i make the argument that the Sun is God because without it there would be no life here on Earth. How can anybody argue that. Therefor The belief in the Sun holds more credit than any religion.
Also, you chose a religion where we know that Muhammad was a warlord and personally beheaded hundreds
bwflolo 1 year ago
So you just wake up one morning, decide some concepts without any proof to be facts and thats it.
How ridiculous, and this this is supposed to be rational ?
The cell phone is a product of small steps, thousands of people contributing to science (plastics, chemicals, physics), know how from many companies, and many people putting together their work.
No man can come from a baby to making a cellphone by himself.
So why don't you believe in 1 trillion gods working together ?
saintpine 1 year ago
lol so why does finite = created and infinite = always been around? You kind of missed explaining that even though it was your entire argument.
hac1m 1 year ago
Subhanallah! Nice. It's so fun to see how many intelligent Muslims there are out there. Alhamdullilah! Peace.
quantumsolutions 1 year ago
A nice try, shame your argument has been debunked a long time ago. You seem to be a rational individual though so its nice to see you are thinking. You do need to stop making assumptions like "we know that the universe has to have had a cause", that's where your logic is falling down. But keep it up, once you start down the road of rational thought, the answers will come in the end.
Drweavil 1 year ago
This dude is awsome.....Islam rocks(parts twisted by Bin-Laden exclouded).
simonswesea 1 year ago
I really like you. I'm no believer, but I give you my respect! I've always had this stereotypical view of muslims as extremists (my ignorance - my flaw), but you've proven me wrong. I'm not saying your "watchmaker" theory proves for Allah, but you're thinking and you seem very educated.
Respect to you!
RubberyDreams 1 year ago
But why would "god" create a human that disbelieves him? Why doesn't he try to prove himself? "God" accepts everyone because "jesus" died for our sins. Well how come then there are still sins and when someone does drugs, they still go to hell? Every religion goes against itself which makes it illogical. Also the universe is expanding. That's been proven. Maybe if "god" or "allah" is real, then they are very upset with us humans that he's trying to move away...
mrsfuzionzero 1 year ago
but where does God come from - what about before him - I'm not trying to argue - or oppose - but maybe you have a theory
stillstandin4you 1 year ago
@stillstandin4you This is precisely where the "something must come from something" argument falls down. If we need something to make something then who made god? and who made god's god? and who made god's god's god? etc.. ad nauseum. The silliness of the whole thing becomes quickly obvious :)
Drweavil 1 year ago
beautiful point - well said
stillstandin4you 1 year ago
I know about cell phones that humans design and create them - that they are produced in factories, contain circuitry, silicon chips... I could probably find a schematic for a phone on the internet. I do not know, in any scenario, that humans are capable of creating planets and stars. Your intelligent design argument fails to extend past the boundaries of human development. It proves nothing about God... just that you think cell phone and a solar system are equivalent in complexity
HeshMetalhead 1 year ago
I must say this makes alot more sense than any pro-athiest or pro-religion (sorry for grouping them, but there is alot) and has the ONLY honest title to date by saying it is rational.
FYI, I am christian but take on many athiest veiws. i.e.evolution, and to date i can still not understand how everyone cant just deal with each others beliefs, and i agree with the muslim aspect of jesus being limited as he is a MAN.
TKDAndyC1 1 year ago
Rational indeed I'm an atheist and I must say this response is much calmer and more fact based than certain other arguments "presented" by theists, nice job
MrFrostmourne1 1 year ago
You should understand, in order for scientific principles, laws and theories to be relevant they must always be bound to happen, not by random chance, understand that information.
mit871chell 1 year ago
This person (and I use the term loosely) talking is the reason why 'stupid' was invented. He probably contradicted himself more times than I can count.
MantasiaHater 1 year ago
I've, of coarse, herd the same argument from Christians. Regardless of the source, it misses the point. God - Allah or Christian Triune God - is a human like Entity. It has a personality (emotions, motivations, so forth). There is no way one can infer this from the existence of the universe. In fact, that is counter intuitive: a superficial understanding of biology shows that emotions & motivations have thier basis in biochemistry & the structure of the brain.
jjetao 1 year ago
... im atheist all the way ,i dont agree with this video .... but ill give him some points , he didnt try to convince us with some quran quotes or some scriptures
batman4ever666 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
Evolutionists i have a challenge for u and for ur god darwin XD!!! if the most important and basic molecule in all living organisms that carry the blue prints of their entire existence RNA/DNA is made up of an important component the ribose backbone how would it have been reproduced without the presence of glucose which we all know come from the most critical process photosynthesis!!!! WAZZAAAAP XD
doublem2008 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
Evolutionists i have a challenge for u and for ur god darwin XD!!! if the most important and basic molecule in all living organisms that carry the blue prints of their entire existence RNA/DNA is made up of an important component the ribose backbone how would it have been reproduced without the presence of glucose which we all know come from the most critical process photosynthesis!!!! WAZZAAAAP XD
doublem2008 1 year ago
its like saying if u throw a duck at a wall with a certain velocity after billions and billions of times one time it will splatter into the mona lisa!!!! well let me tell u in plain simple words its Fucking improbable!!! if u still believe in this atheism evolution facade check this out /watch?v=q1iCjKWzeEE
doublem2008 1 year ago
fuck this fossil shit i have had it up to here with it all u atheists do is billions and billions and billions WTF!!!! didnt u just halt for a moment and think what if the fossils we found are remains of far extinct species like dinosaurs or woolly mammoth for example it so absurd its like coming 2 million years from now and finding a dodo's fossil and saying ah well its the ancestor of the chicken!!! playing word games around this probability shit ofeverything just madeitself is so ridiculous
doublem2008 1 year ago
idiotic
dna598 1 year ago
with the amount of filth the atheists talk in here, it clearly shows that they don't have the nerve to answer it in a rational way,
alnafees 1 year ago
if we had proof, we wouldnt need faith. do you have proof or do you have faith?
jamescat1 1 year ago
for all of u christians who think that this guy is wrong and that he is a diaper/towel head go fuck urself. your idea of religion is no more far fetched as his whos to say that UR RELIGION IS WRONG actually i am bc im an atheist so dont go persecuting other peoples religion bc ur religion is just as fucking stupid and anyone who thinks im wrong reply back id love to explain it again :D
nevereven55 1 year ago
Huh?? This is bullshit. I think they call that a cellphone, you stupid towelhead. I got to ask, do you use the towel for wipe your ass when you go into an Allah sanctioned shitter.
Andrewlohbihler 1 year ago
The universe is infinite? Is this video a joke? Science has found the edges. Only religion seems to claim that "god is infinite"
dancingplatypus 1 year ago
@dancingplatypus What? No it hasn't. I'm no theist and a firm believer of science, but we have not found the "edge" of the universe, not by a long shot.
DarkBunnyLord 1 year ago
use that cell phone to blow your self up you fucking dipper head
Doopdon 1 year ago
SCIENCE created that phone you're holding in your hand, not god, and because of SCENCE you are now able to record yourself while talking and post it on the internet, not because of god, so, limited or not, if I were you, I'd pray to science, cause you seem to enjoy what it has given to you.
SamJigga 1 year ago
The "Watchmaker" argument holds no water and stands as no proof of God/Allah/Bob.
What it demonstrates is our own lack of knowledge.
"God done it." is not an argument.
Religions - yours and the one I tossed a long time ago - have no explanations of anything. They do, however, demonstrate our own credulity and willingness to believe just about any pile of crap that is put in front of us - if they get us early enough.
nlperpave 1 year ago 33
How can you prove that God is unlimited and infinite?
How can you prove that universe is finite and limited?
losebiramnickove 1 year ago
A Good Atheist is dearer to God Rama than a Good Hindu
ramaraksha01 1 year ago
Islam was made to replace the stupid christian view of everything , but they never succeded..
now athiesm and science are going to outscore them both...----
Xmuxxue 2 years ago 27
@Xmuxxue To ma knowledge Islamistic faith was created before christian like 4000 years earlier! Do the math
Heskey10 1 year ago
@Heskey10 You have very little knowledge then
88hurts 1 year ago
@Heskey10 Islam = Surrender your soul to ur God
and this is the only and old religion from God
Jewish think they are best than people
and they fool Christians by Jesus is the God
even they never follow him !
so if u want Surrender your soul to ur God
only be Muslem
God Guide u
pulman7 1 year ago
@Xmuxxue islam and science are based on facts while atheism is only based on theories without any single proof until now and were still waiting and waiting and waiting . yawn...
tripleOG187 1 year ago
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@tripleOG187
you're so fucking dumb
ptxpatrol 1 year ago
@tripleOG187 Islam is based on science? What a wild and ridiculous assertion. Also, atheism doesn't make any sweeping claims and absolute truths like most religion, including Islam. Atheists merely assert that there is no credible evidence or reason to support the existence of a god, let alone the god of the Abrahamic religions.
Mashiki 1 year ago
@tripleOG187 how dare you talk? while youve no clue about islam
tripleOG187 1 year ago
@tripleOG187 how dare you talk? While you have no clue about Mashiki ............ see everybody can make the same argument
MrNightShadowX 1 year ago
@MrNightShadowX i think youre a bit missguided here... the video is about islam, not about "mashiki " ... youve tried to be cool thats ok....
tripleOG187 1 year ago
@tripleOG187 I just think every religion in the World is a big Joke, peace
MrNightShadowX 1 year ago
@MrNightShadowX yea and i just think that islam is natural, anyone with a functioning brain should accept islam. but ppl are just too lazy to make some studies, theyre lazy and they already know everything... :-) peace
tripleOG187 1 year ago
@tripleOG187 Sure ........ ........ .....///>>>> I respect what you think but your logic is so far gone, that is a waste of time trying to explain the basics of real science. Thanks and by the way, The only true GOD is the almighty Flying Spaghetti Monster, Peace
MrNightShadowX 1 year ago
@tripleOG187 lol your closed minded ignorance amuses me no end .
wotters12345 9 months ago
@Xmuxxue: Islam contains science, lots of it.
ProudMuslim2010 1 year ago
@ProudMuslim2010 Yes, I've heard about many of the scientific ideas of the ancient Greeks that made it into the Koran. Why those didn't make it into the New Testament when the authors wrote in Greek? That I'm not entirely sure about, other than the focus was highly on Jesus.
lgbuzals 1 year ago
Do phones mate and have young ? little ikids bit like their moms and dads BUT a little bit different ????
Well that would be just great !!
Radicalindifference 2 years ago
why would god expose himself to one person??
and leave the burden on him to teach the entire world? why should we take the prophets word? why should we believe him? why did he choose a male prophet? why didnt he choose a better method to teach the truth? why didnt he just telepathically reveal himself to all the world and leave the burden to no one? why?
because god did NOT reveal himself? why?
because he doesnt exists!
nickallah 2 years ago
you think god came from nothing.......
how can INFINITE come from nothing.
another god mustve created that god, and that god another god and so on to infinity.. where did the infinite gods come from?
nickallah 2 years ago
neocarvi,
IT IS MUCH MORE COMPLICATED THAN THAT YOU DUMBASS!!!!
Battery9876 2 years ago
@Battery9876 plz enlighten us then
nafsullawwama 1 year ago
I don't have time to waste with a dumbass like you. It's not my job to give you an education MORON..
Battery9876 1 year ago
@battery, is that the only thing u know how to do...accuse ppl of being dumbasses and then not be prepared to backup what u say...ur a waste of time
nafsullawwama 1 year ago
DUMBASS...
Battery9876 1 year ago
No scientists have concluded that the Universe evolved by 'accident' or started by chance.
I hate to have to say it but it seems like you do not understand any of the arguments against your faith at all. This is embarrassing.
jeffk31th 2 years ago