I am thankful that judo and bjj are both taught in the usa. There are some very uniformed people on both sides here and choose not to understand the truth. Either way all of them are related and fun to do.
@JasonSpiffy Maeda is cited on Ufc.com as the founding father of BJJ, not Helio Gracie. Brazillians never call it BJJ or Gracie Jiu jitsu. They, simlply, call it Jiu Jitsu (Maeda taught a lot of people NOT only the Gracies)
There are a lot of non Gracie BJJ lineages in Brazil
The reason why the Brazilians cal it Jiu Jitsu instead of Judo is because Kano did not rename it to Judo until the 1960's when he tried to get Judo into the Olympics.
@JasonSpiffy - Yeah, Kano's JJ was pretty bad ass, before he gutted it. He received the scrolls to Tenshin JJ (The art that Kano used to create his own JJ), which means he's the heir. Tenshin's lineage lead to Aikido, but Ueishba did not get that honor. In other words...Kano was the grandmaster of Tenshin Shinyo Ryo.
what the Brazilians inherited is, basically, pre WWII Samurai Jujutsu
@JasonSpiffy No, Kano had been calling it Judo long before the Olympics in 1964. He gave his first Judo demo at the Olympics in 1932, and had referred to his art as "Judo" to his students as early as 1889.
@novanine9 Uhh, not exactly. Kano had called it Judo since 1889 to differentiate it from Koryu Jujutsu, and gave his first demonstration of Judo at the Olympic games in 1932. Judo officialy became an Olympic sport in 1964, but it had already been called Judo for a long time before then.
Ok question. If kosen Judo is almost the same thing as Jiu-Jitsu why did the famous shoot fighter Yuki Nakai even bother going to Brazil to learn BJJ after losing to Rickson Gracie in 1995 vale tudo japan? If its the same thing why go all the way to Brazil? Then after he received his black belt from the Gracies he became a sought after teacher in Japan. He later went on to produce Japans best light weight fighter Shinya Aoki. Couldn't Aoki and Nakai learn this in japan? Why go through all this?
@EndDepravity your argument is circular.. in that case why did rickson needed to learn from helio gracie? and why did helio gracie needed to learn from carlos gracie.. and guess who teach carlos gracie? well it was maeda a student of jigoro kano the founder or kodokan judo
this fighting between BJJ/Judo is silly. Let's remember the important principle of Judo - "Jita Kyoei" which means "Mutual welfare and benefit." - in other words, let's try to respect and learn from one another. I love Judo. I love BJJ. Judoka should give BJJ credit for being great technical specialists in newaza...and BJJ practitioners should realize that none of you would be rolling if it wasn't for the life's work of Jigoro Kano. "Maximum efficiency, minimum effort" is central to both arts.
@Samboussr modern bjj has a far more emphasis on the newaza than judo of anykind,everything that was in kosen is in bjj but improved.Helio wasnt near as good as modern bjj lads and had no tachiwaza so was obviously going to be destroyed by kimura,it was no contest.Bjj is far beyond kosen now in terms of tech and popularity,kosen is very minor in japan.
@1NX9 there is no american ground fighting,all sub wrestling at the elite level in america is no gi bjj with freestyle and greco added for takedowns.Every single winner of adcc is a bjj black belt.The only world class no bjj sub wrestler is josh barnett and he knows bjj inside out from 15 yrs of training with the likes of matt hume and erik paulson.
You just have to take a look at all the ground fighting books that has been produced and compare them to the material the Gracies has put out. There are hundreds of techniques produced by Americans.
For instance look at the rubber guard & 10th Planet produced by Eddie Bravo. Even Wallid Islmail in a Black Belt mag. article said he went on developing techniques where as the Gracies got comfortable and stopped. This is back when he defeated them.
@1NX9 bjj is being developed all the time,both inside nd outside brazil,everything is a variation though,there are no new techniques as such,thats what wallid meant
@billysue2 You should do more research on "Indian Wrestling" before spouting off that there is no American ground fighting. Native Americans were very good at throws, groundfighting and, of course, incorporating knives and axes into hand-to-hand combat. Native Americans were notorious for their brutal, rolling take-downs that ended with a knife shoved between an enemy's ribs.
@billysue2 That primitive style proved itself extremely effective until the advent of repeating rifles. I'm a 20 year judoka and have used it in real situations. I stayed away from the flashier tournament-style moves and stuck with the simpler, more "primitive" moves. I was surprised at a seminar on "indian wrestling" to find that the very similar techniques were used by the Apaches, Comanches and Plains Indians.
@44excalibur Rename it, give the techniques stupid spic names, and add a bunch of silly belt levels and you've got the makings of a McDojo-franchise that idiots will pay out to for a couple of decades... until they realize all they've been learning is pre-Olympic Kodokan Judo.
Anyone notice lately that the "guard"--the so-called "great innovation" of BJJ, is dead in MMA? Wrestlers are stacking up any idiot that lays on his back in the guard and beating him to a pulp.
They learned self-defense techniques from Maeda and, the western world only knew about Jiu-Jitsu, the mysterious art from Japan back then. Calling it Judo would also have been false, as Judo is much more than techniques. It's physical education, character building, a way to improve onself and, society. By calling it jiu-jitsu, the Gracies honored it's origins and, did not dishonor Kano, or Judo by pretending it was for anything else than self-defense. It's a practical art
@BloodofPatriots The guard never became pronimant in Jiu-jitsu until the 1980's, when the sport players from Carlson's school began using it in tournaments. Prior to that, it was used to protect oneself from an attacker, before they used a submission, or a sweep. The BJJ fighters in Vale Tudo matches used a different style that the modern sport players. In sport BJJ and, no-gi grappling, the fancy guard does work well against wrestlers.
@BloodofPatriots Anyone is going to get themselves punched and, elbowed if they stay on the guard. In a fight, the point of the guard is to prevent the opponent from getting the mount. You don't stay there, you go for a submission, or a sweep. Or, a technical lift/get up in base technique to escape your guard position.
@MrPotatoesLatkie Watch what's happening in MMA. Strong world-class wrestlters like Mark Munoz aren't even bothering to try for the mount. They happily sit inside the guard, closed or not, stack up their BJJ opponents, then beat the living heck out of them. His destruction of Kendall Grove is textbook on the failure of the guard to adapt.
@BloodofPatriot you're not making a fair comparison. Mark Munoz is an expert of BJJ as well, most of MMA fighter have knowledge about BJJ. no wonder in today UFC we always see fighters could handle themselves inside guard. you can go to a random MMA Gym in all over USA, and there's no GYM that doesn't teach BJJ in their school. If you want to see how effective a Guard and mount technique is, don't watch UFC. watch a regular match between BJJ and other martial arts.
@SirRediazVh even a Muay Thai expert can't do a damn thing against BJJ fighter inside a Guard. and just for information, i guess you also realised that wrestling have been evolved recently in MMA world intentionally to adapt with BJJ fighting style. The "Ground and Pound" attitude is implemented by wrestler to react on how confuse they are with BJJ guard on the first hand. if u want to see how effective BJJ against wrestling, watch demean maia against chael sonen. maia defeated chael in 1 round
@SirRediazVh The BJJ groundgame is primitive when compared to that perfected by Judoka Master Oda. And I've watched judokas handle themselves inside the bjj guard... the bjj'er gets choked out. As for Munoz, he's not a BJJ expert by any means. He's a wrestler and his style of fighting is based on his ability as a NCAA National Champion. Pull guard on him or any other wrestler and you'll get stomped. How many Gracies were stomped by wrestler Sakuraba? Royce, Renzo, Royler, and Ryan?
@BloodofPatriots BJJ ground game is "primitive" to Judo ( Kosen Judo) ?? haha. Then why every Judoka who compete in MMA they also learn BJJ? i admit that Judo is good for throwing, pins, and control your opponent in standing and a couple minutes of ground fighting, but it doesn't have the superb ability of BJJ to submit opponent in different situation and condition. thats why fedora emelianenko who is a Sambo expert, he still learn some of BJJ defence and move in his gym.
@SirRediazVh and just for you know, Mark munoz learns BJJ moves a LOT from nog brothers, anderson silva, and other BJJ practioner before his fight against Demian Maia. and Mark munoz also offered him self to be the BJJ sparing partner of Lyoto machida before machida vs shogun fight. that's because mark munoz already have some knowledge of submission technique(besides his wrestling skills). and if you watch all the sakuraba-gracie fight, you can see that sakuraba defeat gracies by standing.
@SirRediazVh You have a problem with reading comprehension, don't you? Go back and read it again and you'll see I made a comparison between current BJJ newaza and Master Oda's newaza. Watch a few of his 1930s and 1940s videos on YT and you'll see he did everything BJJ claims to have invented (total lies, of course). You confuse Olympic Judo with Original Judo. Typical ignorant mistake of a gracie-asslicker.
@SirRediazVh fedor doesnt have a BJJ teacher he does however have a Judo teacher, anyway good Judo schools still focus on Ne Waza aswell my teacher always told me that ne waza is 50% of Judo, and since alot of Judoka's dont focus or only focus about 10-5% on their Ne Waza it is definatly a added advantage to your total grappling game, but so is BJJ if you can study both arts they complement eachother
Your point... Sakuraba lost to Royce Gracie, Minotauro Nogueira, Wanderlei Silva, and kimo by choke. And the helio gracie fight was so long ago, Brazilian jiu jitsu was still developing, judo had been around longer.
@overthehill91 you dont' get it, there are going to be always bette fighters, that doesn't that makes BJJ better, because is not better, the techniques come from Judo, nothing new under the sun my friend.
@overthehill91 yeah right.. if you don't understand then maybe you are fucking stupid.. because it is so simple to understand.. BJJ is NOTHING new? do you get it? all techniques come from Kodokan Judo, do you get it now?
@migerusan29 I never said I didn't understand, I said I don't remember the comment I made. And I really don't care bro so could you please shut the fuck up.
@overthehill91 are you stupid? gracie jiu-jitsu come from MAEDA.. MAEDA teach carlos gracie and carlos gracie teach to his brother helio gracie.. do you get it? or are you going to tell me the gracies "invent" something new? don't be stupid
all this talk about how GJJ ripped off judo... like Judo wasn't just JJ with Kano emphasizing throws. Judo was Jiu-do was Kano Jiu-do was Kano Jiu-Jutsu was Jujutsu.
I think GJJ is quite honest that they are too lazy to get good at throws. Kano was too lazy to work ground.
You guys remind me of the caty gosip and school-hating that dominates small-town martial arts. "that mcdojo has bad form"..."i heard their instructor got his belt by mail"...
ah m8 please get ur facts straight... kano actually had a real big part on ground game.. yet with all the arts turning to a sports perspective lots of these beautifull things get forgotten.
Nowadays bjj is only ground work (as the emphasis has always been) and judo is just over centered around throws.
If your into the arts themselves, i'd recommend looking a bit more deeply in judo ^^ you might like it (the ground game that is^^)
@jbgandhi2 Judo was mostly ground work till after kano died and the rules changed to throwing for the olympics.....how'd u think the gracie got so good at ground work?..so please dont speak of judo if you cant even get that fact straight.......
@anhkhoinguyen plz read: Watanabe, Jiichi and Avakian, Lindy. The Secrets of Judo. Rutland, Vermont: Charles E. Tuttle Co., 1960.
Maekawa, Mineo (1978). "Jigoro Kano's Thoughts on Judo, with Special Reference to the Approach of Judo Thought during His Jujutsu Training Years". Bulletin of the Association for the Scientific Studies on Judo.
Kano, Jigoro. "The Contribution of Jiudo to Education", Journal of Health and Physical Education, 3, 1932, pp. 37-40, 58.
Do you know something about BJJ's orgin. Mitsuyo Maeda (Conde Koma), a former Kodokan member, was the master of Gracie brothers. So BJJ is linked with Judo more than JuJitsu. Conte Koma didn't call it Judo probably because Kano dropped him form Kodokan due to the fact he accepted to fought out of the dojo, also for money. However Conde Koma was a great fighter. Therefore, If you call shit Kosen Judo you call shit BJJ.
@samluke8121 Actually, no he wasn't. Mitsuyo Maeda's master, Kodokan Judo founder Jigoro Kano studied Tenjin Shin'yō-ryū Jujutsu, but Maeda never studied any Jujutsu style. Maeda actually studied Sumo wrestling before studying Judo.
He wasn't a former Kodokan member he was in very good standing - in fact he was given his 7th degree black belt posthumously by the Kodokan (unbeknown to them - they thought he was still alive).
@juottavi Bjj has nothing to do with Kosen Judo, before Kosen judo the art was call it Fusen Ryu. second, Maeda Sensei Was member oft the Kodokan Judo, and he never claim to be a member of the Kosen Judo High japan imperial Schools.
@Samboussr well, Kosen Judo is traditional form of judo before Kano changed the rules to eliminate much time spent on the ground. BJJ is similar (they did not follow Kano rules and continued practicing newaza). So yes, BJJ is not linked to Kosen Judo but they do share the idea.
@juottavi - Maeda is cited on Ufc.com as the founding father of BJJ, not Helio Gracie. Brazillians never call it BJJ or Gracie Jiu jitsu. They, simlply, call it Jiu Jitsu (Maeda taught a lot of people NOT only the Gracies)
There are a lot of non Gracie BJJ lineages in Brazil
The reason why the Brazilians cal it Jiu Jitsu instead of Judo is because Kano did not rename it to Judo until the 1960's when he tried to get Judo into the Olympics.
By the way, the only reason why YOU have NOT been able to learn a single judo throw is because you LACK BRAIN AND HARDWORK so dont blame the gi
I liked so much watchin nakamura throwing all over randleman or d.maia using succesfully yoko otoshi against chael sonnen to apply later a triangle, and of course Fedor who uses all the time his judo throws (remember he was judo champion in russia and now in sambo which is 80 or 90 % based on judo and they grpple wiht a gi!)
It's also funny how people still belives that "brazilian" jiu jitsu was developed by the gracies. Please, come on!!! Just look at the video people, the gracies didn't invent a shit, they just stole the moves from judo newaza and make the marketing move of the century.
@OctaviousLecter well, in all technicallity "brazilian" jiu jitsu was developed by the gracies. they made some changes to the existing art and created their own system. it happens all the time in martial arts so why does everyone come down so hard on the gracies? and also the gracies never deny where they got the techniques from, they always site the japanese, but if you look closly at the two arts you will see differences, mostly subtle, but sometimes thats all it takes!
@OctaviousLecter The Gracies didn´t steal moves. It was a gift from maeda to them. Look, at ADCC there is no Kosen-Judo, only BJJ so the Gracies must have improve something (De La Riva etc.). Judo is great, BJJ is great. Thats all.
but they stole or tradition,if they have respect,why they call it BJJ?actually jujyutu is not somethingelse which is for killing in battlefield.Takenouchiryu jujyutu is the mother of judo.in japan,people in jyujutu sometimes claims that BJJ uses the name of jujyutu!
@OctaviousLecter Maeda is cited on Ufc.com as the founding father of BJJ, not Helio Gracie. Brazillians never call it BJJ or Gracie Jiu jitsu. They, simlply, call it Jiu Jitsu (Maeda taught a lot of people NOT only the Gracies)
There are a lot of non Gracie BJJ lineages in Brazil
The reason why the Brazilians cal it Jiu Jitsu instead of Judo is because Kano did not rename it to Judo until the 1960's when he tried to get Judo into the Olympics.
@novanine9 yeah whatever dude, no one is talking about what says on ufc dot shit. I have seen many interviews with Rorion and Royler and Royce claiming that Helio invented BJJ modifiying the "old" judo techniques. well... i dont see that much of a modification in here, is still the same basic stuff
@OctaviousLecter We're in agreement. I have a 2nd Dan Black belt in Judo &practice BJJ, as well. The difference is in randori / sparring. Judokas R taught the same ne-waza & Katame-waza (ground & grappling techs) & Nage-waza / Tachi & Sutemi (Throwing & sacrifices) as BJJ practioners...with all of their variations.
The difference is time spent in Randori -.Judoka spend the majority of their spar / randori time perfecting Tachi - BJJ"s spend theirs on ne-waza.
@OctaviousLecter yeah. it's total bs. read Yukio Tani's "The Game of Jiujitsu" written in 1906 which talks about softness and leverage and newaza vs tachiwaza. Then you read a bunch of BS about how Brasilians put "leverage" into judo. Japanese were tiny back in the day (still tend to be) compared to Westerners.
@Bjjownsu10 Go look up Sambos offical history then go cry your self to sleep. Its based on JUDO and folk wreslting. with ALL its submission from judo, that dude who invented it even got killed during the stalins politcal purges for not renouncing sambos judo origins...google it your self you ignorant fuck
Thats right friend! sambo/combat sambo come from judo and wrestling and we russian have develop the art with more technics and lots legs lock. BJJ or GJJ is just crap!
judo and bjj came from the same and old martial art.. so they are brothers lol.. stop arguing about if bjj is better than judo or the opposite. they have their differences but its practically the same shit, but not equal.
I love both arts, but get the story strait please. BJJ did not "come" from the "same" martial art as Judo. They are not "brothers". They are not "cousins". The correct analogy would be that BJJ is a DAUGHTER of Judo. Your Grandmother did not give you birth, your mother did, and your Grandmother gave birth to your mother. Kodokan Judo came directly from Koryu Jujutsu, BJJ came from Judo.
Its not very interesting reading all the agruments between judo and bjjs. History lesson BBJ ground work came from katame Judo (Kosen). I believe kano derived all ground work from Shinza Jiu JItsu, very old form of Jiu Jitsu. In a fight you only need simple sweeps/throws. I have never done BJJ but I know from my exprience, judo ground work is very effective as bbj ground work with or with out gee. There are been a few Kosen players that have beaten even the gracies. google it
BJJ is just a tactical and training emphasis on x% of judo newaza. "rubber guard?, "standing up in base?" .... gee that makes it a new art. yeah right.
fyi, I have studied bjj since 96. It's judo folks. It's nice the G's made newaza more accessible. Nice people train hard in the schools but .... judo.
ok whatever you say man! with gi with clothe without gi whatever you want baby i can give you wings to fly. ask rhadi ferguson, karo parisian, yoshida, nakamura, etc etc etc... and good luck with your rubber guard.
who teached the gracie family jiu jitsu? mitsuyo maeda jigoro kano student. the founder of judo so shut up a read to learn. what he created? NOTHING cause all was created already.ASSHOLEEE
Bjj created the rubber guard, modified submissions and more techniques. Also bjj guys know how to grapple with no gi unlike judo guys. Also bjj has absorbed techniques from different grappling arts like sambo and wrestling. And it is still evolving.
Just because judoka typically wear a gi it doesnt not mean that we cannot grapple without one! The concept is pretty much the same... just with much less 'grip'. Id also add also a lot less gay sweaty men if you dont mind me saying! Im sorry bro but Ill pass on rolling around the mat wearing minimal clothes with a guy unless its absolutely necessary.
hahhahahh that's the point of the whole deal. You lose grip, which means you have to control your opponent more and what if your opponent resists? It's harder to get the throw. By the way wrestling takedowns and throws are way better than judos. Its been proved and approved by mma fighters. The best takedown experts in mma are wrestlers if you don't know. Not, saying judo throws are useless, but wrestling is just better for takedown defense and takedown offense.
by the way, wanna round with me in a stand up fight jejejejeje. you the bjj guys sucks in stand up fights cause you dont know how to fight in the street with only 1 throw i can finish the fight IN THE STREET, ask to the GROUND of the street it´s toooo HARD to fall.
First of all, judo throws don't work very well where there is no gi and i don't seee people on the streets wearing gis very often so good luck throwing them 5meters in the air.
Spoken by one who obviously has NO EXPERIENCE in judo throws.. either throwing, or being thrown. You dont need a gi to ippon seoi nage, or o goshi, koshi garume etc. matter of fact... i cant think of very many judo throws there the gi IS necessary. Does it help... yeah... necessary... NO.
So that faggots like you can adore them in their tiny shorts jackass. How many people do you know that walk around the street getting into fights wearing underwear? Hmm? Seems like normal clothes, shirt, jacket, jeans, flannel shirt etc. would be a decent compromise between that sexy mma fighter you fantasize about, and the judo gi that I wear. Sorry I lost all respect for you when you couldnt have a normal convversation without the insults. Learn some judo, and then well talk.
HAhhahha a gi and a t shirt ain't the same thing. You can't throw somebody using their t shirt its too weak, it will ripp apart, also they have to stay still in able for you to do that. I can have a normal conversation as long you don't bring shit thats not true or made up and yes I respect judo and like judo and know judo.
If you really knew judo you would know that you DO NOT NEED clothing to throw someone. Christ watch a UFC with BJ Penn, or Kryo Pahoweverthehellyourspellit and you will see that the throws are more about balance than muscle in which case you dont really need a handful of clothing to grab onto. take o goshi, grab the persons right arm and clutch it to your chest with your left arm, your right arm goes around their waist, bend knees, stick out your hip... boom. No gi, shirt, etc. needed.
Yes, that works if your opponent is too slow to react, but it works. I have no doubt about that. By doing that it also leaves you vulnerable to other things. Not, trying to offend nobody, but wrestling dominates takedowns and takedown defense in mma. A lot mma fighters have wrestling instructors.
Judo is better for the clinch then wrestling, you cant do double legs with your hands are tied up in under hooks watch karo parisyan,yoshida or akiyama and cry your self to sleep again. Due to every1 not doing judo throws and exspecting plain wreslting they end up thrown from the clinch so easily its sad. You call judo throws slow? but consider shooting for a leg ten feet away fast??? thats why double leg takedowns get STIFFED all the time in recent MMA like diego sanchez..poor kid =[
i´ve fought with bjj brown belts and i´ve choked out those guys some very quickly some guys took me a lot of time and that´s because its the same just ask rhadi ferguson
look bjjguy there´s no necessary to insult the other we just discussing some things, look i´ve been fighting with bjj guys only and i got to tell you that you´re good cause you only do that. that´s it
I see some of you guys think that bjj=judo. If you guys think that , you guys are wrong. Bjj has incorporated different techniques from sambo and wrestling to its arsenal, and its still evolving. Different techniques are being created. One example is the rubber guard.
IT´s the same thing bjj is traditional judo the same chokes, same inmovilizations, and judo it´s better cause you have more control over your opponent it´s more static like you said
Kosen Judo is good, I'm not saying it sucks, but I see a big difference between bjj and kosen judo. Bjj is more dynamic and faster. Bjj players transition from position to position while in kosen they seem kinda slow and maintain a position.
I see the video posted on your profile.... damn you stink... is that all you can do? by the way BJJ blue belt... cant you punch, kick, use albue, throw, knee, legs lock etc..? I dont think so! you are an amator.
The Gracies have some cojones alleging hey invented everything,. They've might of refined and added some things, but I know old Judo masters that did almost all of that "invented" Gracie technique....I mean most!
Look in to the the story of George Mehdi. He was one of the first students at Helio's Academy. He was a Frenchman who had trained in Judo prior, but was disgusted to learn that 'Gracie Jiu Jitsu was a poor redering of NeWaza from Judo. He also disliked Helio's attitude and arrogance so he left for Japan and became a Kodokan ranked Judoka. He returned to teach in Brazil,Rickson, Machados, much of the Carlson Gracie team became his students. Much of his techniques make up modern Gracie/ BJJ.
Thanks for the information its greatly appreciated; I didn't know of this man. Look on Youtube for Oda Ne Waza; tell me if it isn't really similar to Graciestyle. All the Kosen Judo videos. And Kazuzo Kudo's old book Dynamic Judo for Ne Waza depicts all the supposed Gracie invented positions. Its a big lie. I've boguht now two dvds from Okada Sensei , Oda's closet student-that's Judo!
also look in to one of the highest ranking BJJ masters in the world right now- Osvaldo Alves- is one of Helio's best friends and highest ranking student. He is responsible for many of the techniques currently associated with Gracie Jiu Jitsu. What few people know is that he spent several years in Japan learning Judo. So many of his 'techniques' are a post hoc regurgitation of his Judo training. Bjj's detractors main argument is the attack on Judo for It's lack of combat appeal vs. the sporting.
You have great information, please keep it coming. Osvaldo Alves was my teacher's teacher-Daniel Valverde. I'm going to forward the information to my Judo Sensei, he'll be interested in reading on it. My Sensei remembers the days when Judo incorporated all those BJJ moves, he saw it all in Japan. People don't even know what Judo really is. What else you got for me? hahah
It seems there is a lot of conflicting info in this thread. What are some sources I can read to understand it better?
JasonSpiffy 2 months ago
I am thankful that judo and bjj are both taught in the usa. There are some very uniformed people on both sides here and choose not to understand the truth. Either way all of them are related and fun to do.
JasonSpiffy 6 months ago
@JasonSpiffy Maeda is cited on Ufc.com as the founding father of BJJ, not Helio Gracie. Brazillians never call it BJJ or Gracie Jiu jitsu. They, simlply, call it Jiu Jitsu (Maeda taught a lot of people NOT only the Gracies)
There are a lot of non Gracie BJJ lineages in Brazil
The reason why the Brazilians cal it Jiu Jitsu instead of Judo is because Kano did not rename it to Judo until the 1960's when he tried to get Judo into the Olympics.
Prior to that it was known as Kano Ryu Jiu Jitsu
novanine9 5 months ago in playlist BJJ
@novanine9
I did not know that part about judo not being named judo until the Olympics. I did know it was kano ryu jiu jitsu. You learn something new every day!
JasonSpiffy 5 months ago
@JasonSpiffy - Yeah, Kano's JJ was pretty bad ass, before he gutted it. He received the scrolls to Tenshin JJ (The art that Kano used to create his own JJ), which means he's the heir. Tenshin's lineage lead to Aikido, but Ueishba did not get that honor. In other words...Kano was the grandmaster of Tenshin Shinyo Ryo.
what the Brazilians inherited is, basically, pre WWII Samurai Jujutsu
novanine9 5 months ago
@novanine9
A lot of good information! I'm going to start studying what I can about JJ, judo aikido , and bjj. It all seams very interesting.
JasonSpiffy 4 months ago
@JasonSpiffy No, Kano had been calling it Judo long before the Olympics in 1964. He gave his first Judo demo at the Olympics in 1932, and had referred to his art as "Judo" to his students as early as 1889.
44excalibur 2 months ago
@novanine9 Uhh, not exactly. Kano had called it Judo since 1889 to differentiate it from Koryu Jujutsu, and gave his first demonstration of Judo at the Olympic games in 1932. Judo officialy became an Olympic sport in 1964, but it had already been called Judo for a long time before then.
44excalibur 2 months ago
2:17 Ude gaeshi
awnroeg12 1 year ago
3:07 what was that HA HA
TENNSUMITSUMA 1 year ago
haha that black belt in the beginning choking to a white belt
chnazm 1 year ago
Ok question. If kosen Judo is almost the same thing as Jiu-Jitsu why did the famous shoot fighter Yuki Nakai even bother going to Brazil to learn BJJ after losing to Rickson Gracie in 1995 vale tudo japan? If its the same thing why go all the way to Brazil? Then after he received his black belt from the Gracies he became a sought after teacher in Japan. He later went on to produce Japans best light weight fighter Shinya Aoki. Couldn't Aoki and Nakai learn this in japan? Why go through all this?
EndDepravity 1 year ago
@EndDepravity your argument is circular.. in that case why did rickson needed to learn from helio gracie? and why did helio gracie needed to learn from carlos gracie.. and guess who teach carlos gracie? well it was maeda a student of jigoro kano the founder or kodokan judo
migerusan29 1 year ago
Good Jiu Jitsu techniques derived from Judo
braddahjosh808 1 year ago
Mr Gracie-Youre always welcome to visit the kodokan :)
judopathoftruth 1 year ago
just started judo last week and its so fun, i have done jiu-jitsu for 2 years now...
odanne29 1 year ago
whoa!
100sunss 2 years ago
this fighting between BJJ/Judo is silly. Let's remember the important principle of Judo - "Jita Kyoei" which means "Mutual welfare and benefit." - in other words, let's try to respect and learn from one another. I love Judo. I love BJJ. Judoka should give BJJ credit for being great technical specialists in newaza...and BJJ practitioners should realize that none of you would be rolling if it wasn't for the life's work of Jigoro Kano. "Maximum efficiency, minimum effort" is central to both arts.
LunaSlave 2 years ago 5
thanks GODDDDD someone that sees which is the point!!! I´m black belt judoka and I LOVE BJJ.....Ne-Waza 4 ever!!!
patrickangus16 2 years ago
Comment removed
mryamkoo 1 year ago
thats true mi friend but still as long as there are ignorant people the fight will never end which is a sad thing
KatsumotoUchija 2 years ago
@LunaSlave Mutual welfare and benefit? When did the gracies do any of that?
samluke8121 1 year ago
Whats the name of the move starting at 5:35..
chrispadilla91 2 years ago
I don't know the Japanese name, but it's a type of biceps crush, and I think it's banned in competition for Judo and BJJ.
rasnus2 2 years ago
@chrispadilla91
It's atechnical part of koshijutsu banned from judo since a lot of time: it is a biceps slicer...if you wanna search, do it in koshijutsu
patrickangus16 1 year ago
in my opinio kosen judo has high level of submission grappling " NEWAZA" better than BJJ.
look the video Kimura vs helio gracie..... Helio got is ass kick, the men cant defend against kimura pin, choke, and of course arm locks...
Samboussr 2 years ago
It depends on the fighter, every martial artist knows that retard.
overthehill91 2 years ago
You are not very bright, aren´t you ?
Kletterbuxe 2 years ago
@Kletterbuxe what about you?
Samboussr 2 years ago
@Kletterbuxe dont worry boy, maybe you are capable of show me something that I dont know?
Samboussr 2 years ago
@Samboussr modern bjj has a far more emphasis on the newaza than judo of anykind,everything that was in kosen is in bjj but improved.Helio wasnt near as good as modern bjj lads and had no tachiwaza so was obviously going to be destroyed by kimura,it was no contest.Bjj is far beyond kosen now in terms of tech and popularity,kosen is very minor in japan.
billysue2 1 year ago
@billysue2
said "Bjj is far beyond kosen now in terms of tech and popularity..."
There has been a revival of Kosen judo in Japan now.
Also I believe American ground fighting has gone beyond what the Gracies have.
The Gracies did not emphasis no jacket newaza as much. American fighters has gone way beyond that.
Look at all the books and videos on newaza by American fighters.
1NX9 10 months ago
@1NX9 there is no american ground fighting,all sub wrestling at the elite level in america is no gi bjj with freestyle and greco added for takedowns.Every single winner of adcc is a bjj black belt.The only world class no bjj sub wrestler is josh barnett and he knows bjj inside out from 15 yrs of training with the likes of matt hume and erik paulson.
billysue2 10 months ago
@billysue2
I am not talking about takedowns.
You just have to take a look at all the ground fighting books that has been produced and compare them to the material the Gracies has put out. There are hundreds of techniques produced by Americans.
For instance look at the rubber guard & 10th Planet produced by Eddie Bravo. Even Wallid Islmail in a Black Belt mag. article said he went on developing techniques where as the Gracies got comfortable and stopped. This is back when he defeated them.
1NX9 10 months ago
@billysue2
cont.
Many Americans may have STARTED in bjj but many have gone on to produce their own ground fighting techniques.
Hence I say American ground fighting.
1NX9 10 months ago
@1NX9 bjj is being developed all the time,both inside nd outside brazil,everything is a variation though,there are no new techniques as such,thats what wallid meant
billysue2 10 months ago
@billysue2
Its basically judo newaza variation then.
1NX9 10 months ago
@1NX9 exactly
billysue2 10 months ago
@billysue2 You should do more research on "Indian Wrestling" before spouting off that there is no American ground fighting. Native Americans were very good at throws, groundfighting and, of course, incorporating knives and axes into hand-to-hand combat. Native Americans were notorious for their brutal, rolling take-downs that ended with a knife shoved between an enemy's ribs.
BloodofPatriots 10 months ago
@BloodofPatriots thats not what the poster was referring to.Ive seen native american fighting,its very primitive compared to judo ,sambo and bjj.
billysue2 10 months ago
@billysue2 That primitive style proved itself extremely effective until the advent of repeating rifles. I'm a 20 year judoka and have used it in real situations. I stayed away from the flashier tournament-style moves and stuck with the simpler, more "primitive" moves. I was surprised at a seminar on "indian wrestling" to find that the very similar techniques were used by the Apaches, Comanches and Plains Indians.
BloodofPatriots 10 months ago
@BloodofPatriots effective against non grapplers,everything is effective against them
billysue2 10 months ago
in your ass it is
judo is the father of bjj
so call it gracie judo
......:) ''baka''
anausu 2 years ago 2
watch your mouth moron!
Samboussr 2 years ago
@anausu "BJJ" = "Basically Just Judo"
BloodofPatriots 10 months ago 6
@BloodofPatriots No one ever accused the Gracies of not being shrewd salesmen.
44excalibur 2 months ago
@44excalibur Rename it, give the techniques stupid spic names, and add a bunch of silly belt levels and you've got the makings of a McDojo-franchise that idiots will pay out to for a couple of decades... until they realize all they've been learning is pre-Olympic Kodokan Judo.
Anyone notice lately that the "guard"--the so-called "great innovation" of BJJ, is dead in MMA? Wrestlers are stacking up any idiot that lays on his back in the guard and beating him to a pulp.
BloodofPatriots 2 months ago
They learned self-defense techniques from Maeda and, the western world only knew about Jiu-Jitsu, the mysterious art from Japan back then. Calling it Judo would also have been false, as Judo is much more than techniques. It's physical education, character building, a way to improve onself and, society. By calling it jiu-jitsu, the Gracies honored it's origins and, did not dishonor Kano, or Judo by pretending it was for anything else than self-defense. It's a practical art
MrPotatoesLatkie 2 months ago
@BloodofPatriots The guard never became pronimant in Jiu-jitsu until the 1980's, when the sport players from Carlson's school began using it in tournaments. Prior to that, it was used to protect oneself from an attacker, before they used a submission, or a sweep. The BJJ fighters in Vale Tudo matches used a different style that the modern sport players. In sport BJJ and, no-gi grappling, the fancy guard does work well against wrestlers.
MrPotatoesLatkie 2 months ago
@BloodofPatriots Anyone is going to get themselves punched and, elbowed if they stay on the guard. In a fight, the point of the guard is to prevent the opponent from getting the mount. You don't stay there, you go for a submission, or a sweep. Or, a technical lift/get up in base technique to escape your guard position.
MrPotatoesLatkie 2 months ago
@MrPotatoesLatkie Watch what's happening in MMA. Strong world-class wrestlters like Mark Munoz aren't even bothering to try for the mount. They happily sit inside the guard, closed or not, stack up their BJJ opponents, then beat the living heck out of them. His destruction of Kendall Grove is textbook on the failure of the guard to adapt.
BloodofPatriots 2 months ago
@BloodofPatriot you're not making a fair comparison. Mark Munoz is an expert of BJJ as well, most of MMA fighter have knowledge about BJJ. no wonder in today UFC we always see fighters could handle themselves inside guard. you can go to a random MMA Gym in all over USA, and there's no GYM that doesn't teach BJJ in their school. If you want to see how effective a Guard and mount technique is, don't watch UFC. watch a regular match between BJJ and other martial arts.
SirRediazVh 1 month ago
@SirRediazVh even a Muay Thai expert can't do a damn thing against BJJ fighter inside a Guard. and just for information, i guess you also realised that wrestling have been evolved recently in MMA world intentionally to adapt with BJJ fighting style. The "Ground and Pound" attitude is implemented by wrestler to react on how confuse they are with BJJ guard on the first hand. if u want to see how effective BJJ against wrestling, watch demean maia against chael sonen. maia defeated chael in 1 round
SirRediazVh 1 month ago
@SirRediazVh The BJJ groundgame is primitive when compared to that perfected by Judoka Master Oda. And I've watched judokas handle themselves inside the bjj guard... the bjj'er gets choked out. As for Munoz, he's not a BJJ expert by any means. He's a wrestler and his style of fighting is based on his ability as a NCAA National Champion. Pull guard on him or any other wrestler and you'll get stomped. How many Gracies were stomped by wrestler Sakuraba? Royce, Renzo, Royler, and Ryan?
BloodofPatriots 1 month ago
@BloodofPatriots BJJ ground game is "primitive" to Judo ( Kosen Judo) ?? haha. Then why every Judoka who compete in MMA they also learn BJJ? i admit that Judo is good for throwing, pins, and control your opponent in standing and a couple minutes of ground fighting, but it doesn't have the superb ability of BJJ to submit opponent in different situation and condition. thats why fedora emelianenko who is a Sambo expert, he still learn some of BJJ defence and move in his gym.
SirRediazVh 1 month ago
@SirRediazVh and just for you know, Mark munoz learns BJJ moves a LOT from nog brothers, anderson silva, and other BJJ practioner before his fight against Demian Maia. and Mark munoz also offered him self to be the BJJ sparing partner of Lyoto machida before machida vs shogun fight. that's because mark munoz already have some knowledge of submission technique(besides his wrestling skills). and if you watch all the sakuraba-gracie fight, you can see that sakuraba defeat gracies by standing.
SirRediazVh 1 month ago
@SirRediazVh You have a problem with reading comprehension, don't you? Go back and read it again and you'll see I made a comparison between current BJJ newaza and Master Oda's newaza. Watch a few of his 1930s and 1940s videos on YT and you'll see he did everything BJJ claims to have invented (total lies, of course). You confuse Olympic Judo with Original Judo. Typical ignorant mistake of a gracie-asslicker.
BloodofPatriots 1 month ago
@SirRediazVh fedor doesnt have a BJJ teacher he does however have a Judo teacher, anyway good Judo schools still focus on Ne Waza aswell my teacher always told me that ne waza is 50% of Judo, and since alot of Judoka's dont focus or only focus about 10-5% on their Ne Waza it is definatly a added advantage to your total grappling game, but so is BJJ if you can study both arts they complement eachother
TheObelix876 1 month ago
Gracie Jiu Jitsu is better.
overthehill91 2 years ago
@overthehill91
As they told Us better but all the technique and concepts came from Judo. The leverage did not come from GJJ, nor did they revolutionize everything
redcapKO 2 years ago
@overthehill91 that why Helio gracie lost to Kimura? or why ryan,renzo,royce and royler lost to sakuraba? =P
anhkhoinguyen 2 years ago
Your point... Sakuraba lost to Royce Gracie, Minotauro Nogueira, Wanderlei Silva, and kimo by choke. And the helio gracie fight was so long ago, Brazilian jiu jitsu was still developing, judo had been around longer.
overthehill91 2 years ago
@overthehill91 you dont' get it, there are going to be always bette fighters, that doesn't that makes BJJ better, because is not better, the techniques come from Judo, nothing new under the sun my friend.
migerusan29 1 year ago
@migerusan29 I don't even remember what the fuck you're talking about so you're wasting your time... My friend.
overthehill91 1 year ago
@overthehill91 yeah right.. if you don't understand then maybe you are fucking stupid.. because it is so simple to understand.. BJJ is NOTHING new? do you get it? all techniques come from Kodokan Judo, do you get it now?
migerusan29 1 year ago
@migerusan29 I never said I didn't understand, I said I don't remember the comment I made. And I really don't care bro so could you please shut the fuck up.
overthehill91 1 year ago
@overthehill91 hahaha you are an idiot..
migerusan29 1 year ago
@migerusan29 Uhh, bro, you're the one trying to start an argument over something that was finished seven months ago, get a life asshole.
overthehill91 1 year ago
Right! yoshida vs Royce bullshit gracie... the moron got choked out! buhahaha
Samboussr 2 years ago
Steroid!
Samboussr 2 years ago
@overthehill91 are you stupid? gracie jiu-jitsu come from MAEDA.. MAEDA teach carlos gracie and carlos gracie teach to his brother helio gracie.. do you get it? or are you going to tell me the gracies "invent" something new? don't be stupid
migerusan29 1 year ago
The throw it´s called UDE GAESHI not yoko wakare.
Levitic22 2 years ago
is the throw at 2:17, Yoko Wakare? or is it something else.
AvatarRoku 2 years ago
No, i'm not sure but i think it's Te Gatame , i heard this name in a japanase video with the same technique
kakuto17 2 years ago
ohhhh. now i see. ok cool thanks alot!
AvatarRoku 2 years ago
@kakuto17 Yup - Te Gatame
solcambs 1 year ago
@kakuto17
Ude Maki Sutemi or Ude Gaeshi Sutemi
tenbinnage 11 months ago
@kakuto17 Ude Maki Sutemi or Ude Gaeshi Sutemi
tenbinnage 11 months ago
@kakuto17 Ude Gaeshi or Ude Maki Sutemi
tenbinnage 11 months ago
@AvatarRoku :i have the good term now : ude gaeshi.
kakuto17 4 months ago
Brazilian lies,they are like snakes.
kneeknott 2 years ago
Any reason for the prejudice? Or you`re just racist?
UmDiaEuFicoBom 2 years ago
all this talk about how GJJ ripped off judo... like Judo wasn't just JJ with Kano emphasizing throws. Judo was Jiu-do was Kano Jiu-do was Kano Jiu-Jutsu was Jujutsu.
I think GJJ is quite honest that they are too lazy to get good at throws. Kano was too lazy to work ground.
You guys remind me of the caty gosip and school-hating that dominates small-town martial arts. "that mcdojo has bad form"..."i heard their instructor got his belt by mail"...
STFU and roll.
jbgandhi2 2 years ago
ah m8 please get ur facts straight... kano actually had a real big part on ground game.. yet with all the arts turning to a sports perspective lots of these beautifull things get forgotten.
Nowadays bjj is only ground work (as the emphasis has always been) and judo is just over centered around throws.
If your into the arts themselves, i'd recommend looking a bit more deeply in judo ^^ you might like it (the ground game that is^^)
Taronga 2 years ago 2
Whatever, I just like the technique where you roll towards opponent after controling arm.
CliffVictory 2 years ago
@jbgandhi2 Judo was mostly ground work till after kano died and the rules changed to throwing for the olympics.....how'd u think the gracie got so good at ground work?..so please dont speak of judo if you cant even get that fact straight.......
anhkhoinguyen 2 years ago
@anhkhoinguyen plz read: Watanabe, Jiichi and Avakian, Lindy. The Secrets of Judo. Rutland, Vermont: Charles E. Tuttle Co., 1960.
Maekawa, Mineo (1978). "Jigoro Kano's Thoughts on Judo, with Special Reference to the Approach of Judo Thought during His Jujutsu Training Years". Bulletin of the Association for the Scientific Studies on Judo.
Kano, Jigoro. "The Contribution of Jiudo to Education", Journal of Health and Physical Education, 3, 1932, pp. 37-40, 58.
Then "go cry yourself to sleep".
jbgandhi2 2 years ago
Hirata sensei was the first on video record to perform the x-guard popularized by the grappling legend marcelo garcia.. Hirata is a legend!
moelicious416 2 years ago 3
This comment has received too many negative votes show
Brazilian Jiu-jitsu is better then this shit
chueri 2 years ago
Do you know something about BJJ's orgin. Mitsuyo Maeda (Conde Koma), a former Kodokan member, was the master of Gracie brothers. So BJJ is linked with Judo more than JuJitsu. Conte Koma didn't call it Judo probably because Kano dropped him form Kodokan due to the fact he accepted to fought out of the dojo, also for money. However Conde Koma was a great fighter. Therefore, If you call shit Kosen Judo you call shit BJJ.
juottavi 2 years ago 15
@juottavi Yes but Mitsuyo Meada only taught the Gracies the basics because they where not Japanese. Maeda was also a Juijitsuka also.
samluke8121 1 year ago
@samluke8121 Actually, no he wasn't. Mitsuyo Maeda's master, Kodokan Judo founder Jigoro Kano studied Tenjin Shin'yō-ryū Jujutsu, but Maeda never studied any Jujutsu style. Maeda actually studied Sumo wrestling before studying Judo.
44excalibur 1 year ago
He wasn't a former Kodokan member he was in very good standing - in fact he was given his 7th degree black belt posthumously by the Kodokan (unbeknown to them - they thought he was still alive).
cjohnsen2008 1 year ago
@juottavi Bjj has nothing to do with Kosen Judo, before Kosen judo the art was call it Fusen Ryu. second, Maeda Sensei Was member oft the Kodokan Judo, and he never claim to be a member of the Kosen Judo High japan imperial Schools.
Samboussr 1 year ago
@Samboussr well, Kosen Judo is traditional form of judo before Kano changed the rules to eliminate much time spent on the ground. BJJ is similar (they did not follow Kano rules and continued practicing newaza). So yes, BJJ is not linked to Kosen Judo but they do share the idea.
Jujutsu > Judo > Kosen Judo > BJJ
pcjudosambo 1 year ago
@juottavi - Maeda is cited on Ufc.com as the founding father of BJJ, not Helio Gracie. Brazillians never call it BJJ or Gracie Jiu jitsu. They, simlply, call it Jiu Jitsu (Maeda taught a lot of people NOT only the Gracies)
There are a lot of non Gracie BJJ lineages in Brazil
The reason why the Brazilians cal it Jiu Jitsu instead of Judo is because Kano did not rename it to Judo until the 1960's when he tried to get Judo into the Olympics.
Prior to that it was known as Kano Ryu Jiu Jitsu
novanine9 5 months ago in playlist BJJ
where do you think BJJ come from,? know your facts before thrash talking :)
HAYUPAKARINGID 2 years ago 3
By the way, the only reason why YOU have NOT been able to learn a single judo throw is because you LACK BRAIN AND HARDWORK so dont blame the gi
I liked so much watchin nakamura throwing all over randleman or d.maia using succesfully yoko otoshi against chael sonnen to apply later a triangle, and of course Fedor who uses all the time his judo throws (remember he was judo champion in russia and now in sambo which is 80 or 90 % based on judo and they grpple wiht a gi!)
don´t cry baby!
fairplaynow 2 years ago 3
Fedor is a sambo fighter not a judoka. He is proud of his Russian martial art thats why he hasn't learned bjj.
Bjjownsu10 2 years ago
Sambo, came directly form Judo, just as BJJ. And fedor was a Judoka before being a Samboka.
OctaviousLecter 2 years ago 4
It's funny how people down play down Fedor's judo but hype up his sambo. Hell, even in russia judo is way bigger than sambo.
judofan 2 years ago 3
It's also funny how people still belives that "brazilian" jiu jitsu was developed by the gracies. Please, come on!!! Just look at the video people, the gracies didn't invent a shit, they just stole the moves from judo newaza and make the marketing move of the century.
Judo FOREVER!!! :D
OctaviousLecter 2 years ago 28
Yeah, todays generation is pretty stupid.
judofan 2 years ago 4
I wanna dumb it down literally for the ignorant.
Bjj/Gjj/"Jiujitsu" is a cheap ripoff from the japanese.
i say the Gracies were pretty smart for bullshitting the whole world.yes they made a pretty name for themselves.
i love how they generically say Jiujitsu over there fake ass inventions. the reason why is so helio could hide the history and take ALL the credit.
fuckers saying kimura, play guard, triangle.nigga please what if i created a art based on muay thai kicks.
ojay67 2 years ago 4
OMG. There are others who know the truth! Halleleujah!
The G's have made millions selling old rope as new to dumb foreigners who dont know any better.
it's judo.
Google M. Tripp Judo History .... George Mehdi (who dumped Helio to study with Kimura sensei)
shinjukool 2 years ago 4
you are right they didn't invent shit I can't take how bjj people are so oblivious about this fact! ugh fucking disgusts me. ^^
Long Live JuJitsu
wengalan0624 2 years ago 4
@OctaviousLecter well, in all technicallity "brazilian" jiu jitsu was developed by the gracies. they made some changes to the existing art and created their own system. it happens all the time in martial arts so why does everyone come down so hard on the gracies? and also the gracies never deny where they got the techniques from, they always site the japanese, but if you look closly at the two arts you will see differences, mostly subtle, but sometimes thats all it takes!
JGSH13 1 year ago
@OctaviousLecter The Gracies didn´t steal moves. It was a gift from maeda to them. Look, at ADCC there is no Kosen-Judo, only BJJ so the Gracies must have improve something (De La Riva etc.). Judo is great, BJJ is great. Thats all.
4indianer 1 year ago
@4indianer
but they stole or tradition,if they have respect,why they call it BJJ?actually jujyutu is not somethingelse which is for killing in battlefield.Takenouchiryu jujyutu is the mother of judo.in japan,people in jyujutu sometimes claims that BJJ uses the name of jujyutu!
kaizoku3 1 year ago
@OctaviousLecter
I am veery happy and appriciate that foreigner understands that,gracie is good at commerce called BJJ.
kaizoku3 1 year ago
@OctaviousLecter bjj buys will die before they admit to it
sonnych69 11 months ago
@OctaviousLecter Maeda is cited on Ufc.com as the founding father of BJJ, not Helio Gracie. Brazillians never call it BJJ or Gracie Jiu jitsu. They, simlply, call it Jiu Jitsu (Maeda taught a lot of people NOT only the Gracies)
There are a lot of non Gracie BJJ lineages in Brazil
The reason why the Brazilians cal it Jiu Jitsu instead of Judo is because Kano did not rename it to Judo until the 1960's when he tried to get Judo into the Olympics.
Prior to that it was known as Kano Ryu Jiu Jitsu
novanine9 5 months ago in playlist BJJ
@novanine9 yeah whatever dude, no one is talking about what says on ufc dot shit. I have seen many interviews with Rorion and Royler and Royce claiming that Helio invented BJJ modifiying the "old" judo techniques. well... i dont see that much of a modification in here, is still the same basic stuff
OctaviousLecter 5 months ago
@OctaviousLecter We're in agreement. I have a 2nd Dan Black belt in Judo &practice BJJ, as well. The difference is in randori / sparring. Judokas R taught the same ne-waza & Katame-waza (ground & grappling techs) & Nage-waza / Tachi & Sutemi (Throwing & sacrifices) as BJJ practioners...with all of their variations.
The difference is time spent in Randori -.Judoka spend the majority of their spar / randori time perfecting Tachi - BJJ"s spend theirs on ne-waza.
THERE R NO MODIFICATIONS
novanine9 5 months ago
@OctaviousLecter yeah. it's total bs. read Yukio Tani's "The Game of Jiujitsu" written in 1906 which talks about softness and leverage and newaza vs tachiwaza. Then you read a bunch of BS about how Brasilians put "leverage" into judo. Japanese were tiny back in the day (still tend to be) compared to Westerners.
shinjukool 5 months ago
@OctaviousLecter BJJ = Basically Japanese Judo.
shinjukool 5 months ago
@Bjjownsu10 Go look up Sambos offical history then go cry your self to sleep. Its based on JUDO and folk wreslting. with ALL its submission from judo, that dude who invented it even got killed during the stalins politcal purges for not renouncing sambos judo origins...google it your self you ignorant fuck
anhkhoinguyen 2 years ago 2
Thats right friend! sambo/combat sambo come from judo and wrestling and we russian have develop the art with more technics and lots legs lock. BJJ or GJJ is just crap!
Samboussr 2 years ago
judo and bjj came from the same and old martial art.. so they are brothers lol.. stop arguing about if bjj is better than judo or the opposite. they have their differences but its practically the same shit, but not equal.
Serrrich 2 years ago
I love both arts, but get the story strait please. BJJ did not "come" from the "same" martial art as Judo. They are not "brothers". They are not "cousins". The correct analogy would be that BJJ is a DAUGHTER of Judo. Your Grandmother did not give you birth, your mother did, and your Grandmother gave birth to your mother. Kodokan Judo came directly from Koryu Jujutsu, BJJ came from Judo.
jrljudoka 2 years ago 5
Its not very interesting reading all the agruments between judo and bjjs. History lesson BBJ ground work came from katame Judo (Kosen). I believe kano derived all ground work from Shinza Jiu JItsu, very old form of Jiu Jitsu. In a fight you only need simple sweeps/throws. I have never done BJJ but I know from my exprience, judo ground work is very effective as bbj ground work with or with out gee. There are been a few Kosen players that have beaten even the gracies. google it
EzpzNewb 3 years ago
BJJ is just a tactical and training emphasis on x% of judo newaza. "rubber guard?, "standing up in base?" .... gee that makes it a new art. yeah right.
fyi, I have studied bjj since 96. It's judo folks. It's nice the G's made newaza more accessible. Nice people train hard in the schools but .... judo.
google "M. Tripp Judo History" for more
shinjukool 3 years ago 2
man! i can give you wings even with my fingers.jejej
Levitic22 3 years ago
ok whatever you say man! with gi with clothe without gi whatever you want baby i can give you wings to fly. ask rhadi ferguson, karo parisian, yoshida, nakamura, etc etc etc... and good luck with your rubber guard.
Levitic22 3 years ago
who teached the gracie family jiu jitsu? mitsuyo maeda jigoro kano student. the founder of judo so shut up a read to learn. what he created? NOTHING cause all was created already.ASSHOLEEE
Levitic22 3 years ago
Bjj created the rubber guard, modified submissions and more techniques. Also bjj guys know how to grapple with no gi unlike judo guys. Also bjj has absorbed techniques from different grappling arts like sambo and wrestling. And it is still evolving.
Bjjownsu10 3 years ago
Just because judoka typically wear a gi it doesnt not mean that we cannot grapple without one! The concept is pretty much the same... just with much less 'grip'. Id also add also a lot less gay sweaty men if you dont mind me saying! Im sorry bro but Ill pass on rolling around the mat wearing minimal clothes with a guy unless its absolutely necessary.
BrentShiver 3 years ago 5
hahhahahh that's the point of the whole deal. You lose grip, which means you have to control your opponent more and what if your opponent resists? It's harder to get the throw. By the way wrestling takedowns and throws are way better than judos. Its been proved and approved by mma fighters. The best takedown experts in mma are wrestlers if you don't know. Not, saying judo throws are useless, but wrestling is just better for takedown defense and takedown offense.
Bjjownsu10 3 years ago
by the way, wanna round with me in a stand up fight jejejejeje. you the bjj guys sucks in stand up fights cause you dont know how to fight in the street with only 1 throw i can finish the fight IN THE STREET, ask to the GROUND of the street it´s toooo HARD to fall.
Levitic22 3 years ago
First of all, judo throws don't work very well where there is no gi and i don't seee people on the streets wearing gis very often so good luck throwing them 5meters in the air.
Bjjownsu10 3 years ago
Spoken by one who obviously has NO EXPERIENCE in judo throws.. either throwing, or being thrown. You dont need a gi to ippon seoi nage, or o goshi, koshi garume etc. matter of fact... i cant think of very many judo throws there the gi IS necessary. Does it help... yeah... necessary... NO.
BrentShiver 3 years ago 3
This comment has received too many negative votes show
By, the way you know why mma fighers wear minimum clothes? So, faggots like you don't get a good grip.
Bjjownsu10 3 years ago
So that faggots like you can adore them in their tiny shorts jackass. How many people do you know that walk around the street getting into fights wearing underwear? Hmm? Seems like normal clothes, shirt, jacket, jeans, flannel shirt etc. would be a decent compromise between that sexy mma fighter you fantasize about, and the judo gi that I wear. Sorry I lost all respect for you when you couldnt have a normal convversation without the insults. Learn some judo, and then well talk.
BrentShiver 3 years ago 3
HAhhahha a gi and a t shirt ain't the same thing. You can't throw somebody using their t shirt its too weak, it will ripp apart, also they have to stay still in able for you to do that. I can have a normal conversation as long you don't bring shit thats not true or made up and yes I respect judo and like judo and know judo.
Bjjownsu10 3 years ago
If you really knew judo you would know that you DO NOT NEED clothing to throw someone. Christ watch a UFC with BJ Penn, or Kryo Pahoweverthehellyourspellit and you will see that the throws are more about balance than muscle in which case you dont really need a handful of clothing to grab onto. take o goshi, grab the persons right arm and clutch it to your chest with your left arm, your right arm goes around their waist, bend knees, stick out your hip... boom. No gi, shirt, etc. needed.
BrentShiver 3 years ago 3
Yes, that works if your opponent is too slow to react, but it works. I have no doubt about that. By doing that it also leaves you vulnerable to other things. Not, trying to offend nobody, but wrestling dominates takedowns and takedown defense in mma. A lot mma fighters have wrestling instructors.
Bjjownsu10 3 years ago
Judo is better for the clinch then wrestling, you cant do double legs with your hands are tied up in under hooks watch karo parisyan,yoshida or akiyama and cry your self to sleep again. Due to every1 not doing judo throws and exspecting plain wreslting they end up thrown from the clinch so easily its sad. You call judo throws slow? but consider shooting for a leg ten feet away fast??? thats why double leg takedowns get STIFFED all the time in recent MMA like diego sanchez..poor kid =[
anhkhoinguyen 2 years ago
you should hear what rickson, xande ribeiro or marcelo garcia have to say about training as much as possible with the gi.
by the way DUMBASS
fairplaynow 2 years ago
The saddest thing is that all of them suck.
Bjjownsu10 2 years ago
they suck and they are champions in no gi at their own categories except rickson who is worse than anyone.
keep dreaming idiot collegiate wrestler who has no time, patience nor will to learn throughly and in detail an art.
keep fooling yourself, thinking it is all about adding new "tricks" to your cradle manouvers.
yeah the gi means nothing.
fairplaynow 2 years ago
i´ve fought with bjj brown belts and i´ve choked out those guys some very quickly some guys took me a lot of time and that´s because its the same just ask rhadi ferguson
Levitic22 3 years ago
look bjjguy there´s no necessary to insult the other we just discussing some things, look i´ve been fighting with bjj guys only and i got to tell you that you´re good cause you only do that. that´s it
Levitic22 3 years ago
I see some of you guys think that bjj=judo. If you guys think that , you guys are wrong. Bjj has incorporated different techniques from sambo and wrestling to its arsenal, and its still evolving. Different techniques are being created. One example is the rubber guard.
Bjjownsu10 3 years ago
This kinda of JUDO RULEs Kosen Judo
Levitic22 3 years ago
yes this is kosen judo "fusen ryu"
mddog 3 years ago
it can´t be better because its the same newaza is newaza personally i can´t see the difference
Levitic22 3 years ago
I do see the difference!
mddog 3 years ago
IT´s the same thing bjj is traditional judo the same chokes, same inmovilizations, and judo it´s better cause you have more control over your opponent it´s more static like you said
Levitic22 3 years ago
BJJ= Basically Just Judo
Levitic22 3 years ago
Kosen Judo is good, I'm not saying it sucks, but I see a big difference between bjj and kosen judo. Bjj is more dynamic and faster. Bjj players transition from position to position while in kosen they seem kinda slow and maintain a position.
Bjjownsu10 3 years ago
Buhhahaha,.... what f....uk.. slow my ass.. I really like demostrate to you... where are you living BJJ?
I am Sambo, Kosen judo 3 Dan, Muay Thai...
mddog 3 years ago
Prove it piece of shit.
Bjjownsu10 3 years ago
hihi... little boy 21 year old with an big mouth ;-) the only piece of shiit is you punk. I´ll run you down like a bulldozer.. stupid boy!
mddog 3 years ago
You can't run down shit. The closest you fucken ranned over is your own little brother.
Bjjownsu10 3 years ago
I see the video posted on your profile.... damn you stink... is that all you can do? by the way BJJ blue belt... cant you punch, kick, use albue, throw, knee, legs lock etc..? I dont think so! you are an amator.
mddog 3 years ago
That ain't me retard.
Bjjownsu10 3 years ago
I know its hard to admit that there is a better martial art than yours, but why not learn from it and added to your own?
Bjjownsu10 3 years ago
BJJ is what's best right now
it's just old judo
ericssson 3 years ago
Stop hating on Bjj. Just because Bjj is better than judo that doesn't mean you have to be hating on bjj. Why don't you learn bjj and judo?
Bjjownsu10 3 years ago
Bjj is not better then Judo, nor the other way around. Only children bicker over whos art is better!
stu106 3 years ago
Google "Judo History M. Tripp" Nice overview.
It's judo. Just a tactical and training emphasis on judo newaza.
Mass-marketed to the ignorant. FYI, I study it too because I cannot find a good judo newaza teacher in my area.
shinjukool 3 years ago
The Gracies have some cojones alleging hey invented everything,. They've might of refined and added some things, but I know old Judo masters that did almost all of that "invented" Gracie technique....I mean most!
ilope012 3 years ago 3
Look in to the the story of George Mehdi. He was one of the first students at Helio's Academy. He was a Frenchman who had trained in Judo prior, but was disgusted to learn that 'Gracie Jiu Jitsu was a poor redering of NeWaza from Judo. He also disliked Helio's attitude and arrogance so he left for Japan and became a Kodokan ranked Judoka. He returned to teach in Brazil,Rickson, Machados, much of the Carlson Gracie team became his students. Much of his techniques make up modern Gracie/ BJJ.
superlyger 3 years ago
Thanks for the information its greatly appreciated; I didn't know of this man. Look on Youtube for Oda Ne Waza; tell me if it isn't really similar to Graciestyle. All the Kosen Judo videos. And Kazuzo Kudo's old book Dynamic Judo for Ne Waza depicts all the supposed Gracie invented positions. Its a big lie. I've boguht now two dvds from Okada Sensei , Oda's closet student-that's Judo!
ilope012 3 years ago
also look in to one of the highest ranking BJJ masters in the world right now- Osvaldo Alves- is one of Helio's best friends and highest ranking student. He is responsible for many of the techniques currently associated with Gracie Jiu Jitsu. What few people know is that he spent several years in Japan learning Judo. So many of his 'techniques' are a post hoc regurgitation of his Judo training. Bjj's detractors main argument is the attack on Judo for It's lack of combat appeal vs. the sporting.
superlyger 3 years ago
You have great information, please keep it coming. Osvaldo Alves was my teacher's teacher-Daniel Valverde. I'm going to forward the information to my Judo Sensei, he'll be interested in reading on it. My Sensei remembers the days when Judo incorporated all those BJJ moves, he saw it all in Japan. People don't even know what Judo really is. What else you got for me? hahah
ilope012 3 years ago