Had the clause regarding the abolition of slavery been left in the Declaration of Independence as Jefferson had written, the Carolina's and Georgia would never have voted to declare Independence from the British Crown and there would be NO United States. Jefferson understood perfectly the delicacy of the matter.
The world had slaves. The entire world from the beginning of time has had slaves of every shape, size and color. America brought freedom to more people than any other nation or people ever has. Every single one of us could trace back through our ancestors and would find some of them had been slaves. Today, there are still entire nations in slavery. It is called communism. We were not created as a nation that embraced slavery. Our Declaration says "All men are created equal" not "All white men!"
@curbsandwich The foundation that was laid with the Declaration of Independence provided a framework on which the eventual freedoms and suffrage was attained by African Americans and women. Not to deny that there were contradictions between its lofty language and the reality of the actions of signers and there's still more to do. It clearly wasn't perfect out of the gate. Nor was the Constitution. It's up to every generation to move forward toward a goal of equality for all.
Then Lincoln gets credited with freeing the slaves when in reality he was NOT an abolitionist, he was a free-soiler, and was fine with slavery in the south and had no plans to end it, until the south seceded.
Not to mention, when he was in France, Sally Hemmings and her brother whom accompanied TJ there, could have left/not returned to America with him, but they both did. In France they were free to go as they pleased, but they chose to return with Jefferson. People so often give Jefferson a bad rap when he really was against slavery but he was born into the wrong time.
@CloverExpress lol your speech made me laugh. I didn't realise you were that niave but sally only returned because jefferson promised the freedom of their family if they did or otherwise he wouldn't,
Even after he died thomas never freed his slaves and it was polly who freed sally in the end not thomas jefferson.
Thomas Jefferson couldn't free his slaves because he was in huge amounts of debt, largely inherited from his father-in-law, and in those days one could not just free slaves at will, one had to put up bonds and one was held accountable to any crimes committed by the freed slaves. So since he was in debt, TJ could not put up the bonds required to free his slaves. And since he was in debt when he died, his debtors claimed the slaves and sold them upon his death, except a few.
Thank you Ebanonymous for telling like it is, unlike these "others" trying to justify such evil acts. Also, Native Americans tend to be left out of the discussion on racial injustice on land that belongs to them. Thomas Jefferson's house (and pretty much every house in this country) is on stolen land of the Native Americans. It's not glamorous anymore if you look at it from this angle. White colonist should have "gone back to where they came from" to fight for freedom.
The narrater states that Sally Hennings may have borne him a child. What year was this program published? He and Sally Hennings had not just an affair but a genuiine relationship. They had children and she was with him when he died. There was a family reunion a few years officially documenting the ties between white/black families.
There was a TV mini series about this and a plethora of historical data that supports their relationship.
"If the American people ever allow the banks to control the issuance of their currency, the banks and corporations that will grow up around them will deprive the people of all property, until their children wake up homeless on the continent their fathers conquered." ~ Thomas Jefferson
It's worth noting that Jefferson drafted bills that would have gradually ended slavery in Virginia, he was the man behind the North West Ordinance which - if I recall correctly - preemptively banned slavery in a large part of the North West, and while he was president he helped abolish the slave trade, which was one of the more horrible parts of slavery.
I might be wrong about some of this, I'm just remembering it from an American history class from a Canadian school...
the thing is that if jefferson freed his slaves, where were they going to go? he actually wanted to include slavery as one of the actions of king george that lead to the demand for independence in the declaration, but georgia and south carolina insisted that it be taken out. he actually opposed slavery.
Jefferson was a man of his time and ahead of his time in many ways. This period in America was pre-civil war and slavery was the norm for all. This was the way of life for both the slaves and the slave owners. He did have the foresight to view that slavery was wrong. You cannot judge Jefferson based on 21th century sensibilities.
"even the greats have faults" yes well you could say the same about Albert Speer who used slaves to build weapons for the Germans in WW2. Slavery - just "a fault" & not a crime against humanity. Realy?
"But Jefferson did advance the cause of freedom for all" you just said he had slaves, so they weren't included. That's not "all". And in 1775 when 20 of his slaves ran & fought for the British, he wanted them back. You can't have slaves & be for freedom "for all". This is nonsense.
@EBanonymous Not sure I'd equate Albert Speer with Thomas Jefferson, but it's clear Jefferson was a product of his times and no matter how much he believed in equality he wasn't able to throw off the shackles that kept him from freeing his slaves and repudiating slavery. It's my understanding that he and Madison were passing this down to the next generation to resolve.
Jefferson wore no "shackles"; he wasn't forced to enslave blacks. Germans said they were "following orders" - same argument.
W/ ur logic "product of the times" excuses slavery & also the Holocaust. Kidnapping, forcing people to work for u for genrations at gunpoint; raping, torturing them; starving & killing them - for profit is slavery. Slavery is ok when Americans do it, but when Speer did it, prison. Slavery isn't joke or "fault"; it's a major crime & even Cogress apologised.
@EBanonymous Trust me, Jefferson wanted to rid slavery. He got slaves alot, because he thought he could treat them better than most slave owners did. The founders, especially Jefferson were against slavery, but it was to big on the economy to just take away so sudden and drastically. It was wrong, they knew it, but they knew the survival of the country had to have slaves. They made attempts so the future would rid slaves, its noted in the declaration of independence. Which Thomas Jefferson wrote
When an alcoholic says he's against drinking, do you believe him? You can't be against slavery and own slaves. Not unless you can believe 2 contradictory ideas - hence Orwell.
The Dec of Indep refers to white men, not blacks. In the original draft Jefferson said the Brits forced slavery on colonies, but it wasn't true & Congress changed it.
The country did nto need slaves; the rich plantation owners wanted slaves, and refused to diversify economy. That's the reality
you kidnap people and abuse them. You feed them well & beat them a little, but ur kinder than your neighbour. Ur still a kidnapper. Jefferson still owned slaves, and he didn't do them any favours. Which is why in 1775 20 ran away to fight on the British side against the Americans.
Suddenly now everybody is against slavery!. BS. These men knew it ws wrong & didn't care. They made their entire fortunes off child slave labour & Jefferson wrote it. Ur making excuses for their crimes
@EBanonymous its like you maybe are against fox new bias yet you are very bias in these arguements.. thomas jefferson owned slaves and was against slavery. or a smoker telling you its a bad habit? or an alcholic against drinking. its understandable.
I'm bias because I say the excuses these people make for slave owners make no sense?What did he do to promote abolitionism? He opposed freeing slaves, including his own. Did he support the Gabriel Presser rebellion of 1800? No.
Jefferson's comments reveal that he understood slavery was wrong, but his actions demonstrate he didn't have a problem with it because he made his entire fortune off it. Criminals know they do bad, but don't care. Jefferson was no different. 2 + 2= 3 to u
@EBanonymous he inherited the land and slaves. he also inherited a huge debt. he could not free them until he was free of debt, which he never achieved. the excuses? they make sense. Early in his political career, Jefferson attempted twice to legislate the emancipation of slaves, one time in 1769 at the Virginia General Assembly, and another in 1784 at the Continental Congress. this information leads me to believe you are making everything you say up.
Opposing slave trade wasn't abolitionism.; it was to reduce revolts. He had zero chance of ANY law in 69' or 84'. Slaveowners were comfortable w/ him, but HATED abolitionsim.
He would have been laughed out of office if slave owners ever perceived him a threat to slavery - their pocket. Real abolitionsists like David Walker denounced Jefferson for 1) his racism & 2) his support of slavery in book "notes on Virginia"
Private message me for URL'S if ur serious. Check all my facts.
@EBanonymous I hear what you are saying and you're correct that it's impossible to condone Jefferson's views on slavery but at the same time we can recognize his contributions to creating a system that eventually abolished slavery. And sought to stake out principles of equality that are the fundamental building blocks for on which our concepts of justice rest. While he didn't go far enough and we haven't come far enough yet, I think we can learn a lot from both Jefferson and Madison.
@mrpitv Madison writing the Bill of Rights which protects the freedom of expression gives us the ability to have this conversation without fear of government reprisal. They weren't perfect but it's up to each generation to improve the current conditions and lay the foundation for a better future. I hope you can use your sense of outrage to make such a contribution. thanks for engaging in the discussion.
No Madison did not give us any rights. That Madison & Jefferson & others supported the 1798 Sedition Act which jailed even Congressmen for free speech. Madison spoke of "parchment paper" as in it's just a piece of paper.
It's people like Shenck & Eugene Debbs & Ellsberg & Assange who fight to get these rights; those "founders" didn't support it in practice.
You can't work to improve the future if your version of the past is based on fairy tales. See the Sedition Act & prove me wrong.
The system didn't abolish slavery; it codified it into law & protected it ie Slave Law of 1793. The Civil War resulted in slavery ending, not Jefferson or Madison.
"their" ideas were from John Locke, a man who advocated child labour in his 2nd Treatise. These men didn't stand for equality for blacks or indigenous peoples, women or the poor.
Their "justice" led to Afghanistan, Iraq & millions killed in wars. We learn their words were always hollow, as when trhey hunted down slaves.
@EBanonymous Jefferson did not invent slavery that institution had been in effect in America beginning in the 1600's well before Jefferson's time. Do not judge Jefferson based on 21st century attitudes. At that time, Africans were brought to America for slavery to work on large farms called plantations and this was an evil institution in my opinion but that was considered "everyday living" at that time.
@mrpitv no we haven't come far enough yet, we need more laws like affirmative action. screw those fucking white racist devils. whitey should have to pay reparations. white bastards.
@EBanonymous While he wasn't perfect, I think Jefferson gave us a framework for making, reasoned moral choices which we can use to question his choices. I'm reminded of a column in the Chicago Daily News by Sydney J. Harris, who interviewed Albert Speer, after his release from Spandau prison. Speer told Harris “If we had been given a proper education as to the probable moral and social consequences of Nazism . . . many of us might have taken steps to abort the movement before it took power.”
"Hitler's concept of concentration camps... genocide owed much, so he claimed, to his studies of ...United States history. He admired the camps ... the Indians in the wild West; and often praised to his inner circle the efficiency of America's extermination" John Toland 1973 "Adolf Hitler"
That included Speer who was considered Hitler's only friend. He also denied his involvement in the Holocaust. But the "founders" Genocide of Tribes inspired those men. Particularly Jefferson.
Uh you mean Slave Plantation where he worked Africans against their will & kept them there at gunpoint. Yes a new nation without "merciless Indian savages" he hated so much he put them in the Declaration of Indepencece. The same man who wanted to "pursue them to extirmination"
Slavery was a good way for rich "gentleman" to "be amused" who "had a keen interest in learning" - Yes, and he supportd torture & killing of slaves who tried to learn to read. That's ur hero.
Had the clause regarding the abolition of slavery been left in the Declaration of Independence as Jefferson had written, the Carolina's and Georgia would never have voted to declare Independence from the British Crown and there would be NO United States. Jefferson understood perfectly the delicacy of the matter.
jodowdy 3 weeks ago
i bet my history teachers watching this again in that case HI MRS BREMER
masterchief56068 3 months ago
The world had slaves. The entire world from the beginning of time has had slaves of every shape, size and color. America brought freedom to more people than any other nation or people ever has. Every single one of us could trace back through our ancestors and would find some of them had been slaves. Today, there are still entire nations in slavery. It is called communism. We were not created as a nation that embraced slavery. Our Declaration says "All men are created equal" not "All white men!"
jellytoast12 7 months ago
He advanced freedom to white men. Not blacks or women.
curbsandwich 8 months ago
@curbsandwich The foundation that was laid with the Declaration of Independence provided a framework on which the eventual freedoms and suffrage was attained by African Americans and women. Not to deny that there were contradictions between its lofty language and the reality of the actions of signers and there's still more to do. It clearly wasn't perfect out of the gate. Nor was the Constitution. It's up to every generation to move forward toward a goal of equality for all.
mrpitv 8 months ago 4
@curbsandwich keep your racism to yourself. ok
kenndogg51 1 month ago
Then Lincoln gets credited with freeing the slaves when in reality he was NOT an abolitionist, he was a free-soiler, and was fine with slavery in the south and had no plans to end it, until the south seceded.
CloverExpress 8 months ago
Not to mention, when he was in France, Sally Hemmings and her brother whom accompanied TJ there, could have left/not returned to America with him, but they both did. In France they were free to go as they pleased, but they chose to return with Jefferson. People so often give Jefferson a bad rap when he really was against slavery but he was born into the wrong time.
CloverExpress 8 months ago
@CloverExpress lol your speech made me laugh. I didn't realise you were that niave but sally only returned because jefferson promised the freedom of their family if they did or otherwise he wouldn't,
Even after he died thomas never freed his slaves and it was polly who freed sally in the end not thomas jefferson.
NAEIRNBRUFORU 6 months ago
Thomas Jefferson couldn't free his slaves because he was in huge amounts of debt, largely inherited from his father-in-law, and in those days one could not just free slaves at will, one had to put up bonds and one was held accountable to any crimes committed by the freed slaves. So since he was in debt, TJ could not put up the bonds required to free his slaves. And since he was in debt when he died, his debtors claimed the slaves and sold them upon his death, except a few.
CloverExpress 8 months ago
Did I just see a poppy field? 0:50
timi0000 8 months ago
Thank you Ebanonymous for telling like it is, unlike these "others" trying to justify such evil acts. Also, Native Americans tend to be left out of the discussion on racial injustice on land that belongs to them. Thomas Jefferson's house (and pretty much every house in this country) is on stolen land of the Native Americans. It's not glamorous anymore if you look at it from this angle. White colonist should have "gone back to where they came from" to fight for freedom.
thungvt 10 months ago
The narrater states that Sally Hennings may have borne him a child. What year was this program published? He and Sally Hennings had not just an affair but a genuiine relationship. They had children and she was with him when he died. There was a family reunion a few years officially documenting the ties between white/black families.
There was a TV mini series about this and a plethora of historical data that supports their relationship.
sassysizzle 11 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
"If the American people ever allow the banks to control the issuance of their currency, the banks and corporations that will grow up around them will deprive the people of all property, until their children wake up homeless on the continent their fathers conquered." ~ Thomas Jefferson
TheLizardKing1967 1 year ago
It's worth noting that Jefferson drafted bills that would have gradually ended slavery in Virginia, he was the man behind the North West Ordinance which - if I recall correctly - preemptively banned slavery in a large part of the North West, and while he was president he helped abolish the slave trade, which was one of the more horrible parts of slavery.
I might be wrong about some of this, I'm just remembering it from an American history class from a Canadian school...
japedol 1 year ago
the thing is that if jefferson freed his slaves, where were they going to go? he actually wanted to include slavery as one of the actions of king george that lead to the demand for independence in the declaration, but georgia and south carolina insisted that it be taken out. he actually opposed slavery.
samm1809 1 year ago
Jefferson was a man of his time and ahead of his time in many ways. This period in America was pre-civil war and slavery was the norm for all. This was the way of life for both the slaves and the slave owners. He did have the foresight to view that slavery was wrong. You cannot judge Jefferson based on 21th century sensibilities.
topazrain 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
Did anybody noticed the opium poppy flowers in the garden? Well check it out 0:51
dondhon 1 year ago
Did anybody noticed the opium poppy flowers in the garden? Well check it out 0:51
dondhon 1 year ago
@dondhon holy shit.. you're right!!
baezalejandro 1 year ago
03:20
"even the greats have faults" yes well you could say the same about Albert Speer who used slaves to build weapons for the Germans in WW2. Slavery - just "a fault" & not a crime against humanity. Realy?
"But Jefferson did advance the cause of freedom for all" you just said he had slaves, so they weren't included. That's not "all". And in 1775 when 20 of his slaves ran & fought for the British, he wanted them back. You can't have slaves & be for freedom "for all". This is nonsense.
EBanonymous 1 year ago
@EBanonymous Not sure I'd equate Albert Speer with Thomas Jefferson, but it's clear Jefferson was a product of his times and no matter how much he believed in equality he wasn't able to throw off the shackles that kept him from freeing his slaves and repudiating slavery. It's my understanding that he and Madison were passing this down to the next generation to resolve.
mrpitv 1 year ago
@mrpitv
U say Jefferson wanted freedom for blacks? He said "blacks...are inferior to the whites in the endowments both of body and mind." Notes on Virginia
And he never wanted Africans & white Americans together "the two races, equally free, cannot live in the same government." - autobiography
Why would he repudiate slavery? His entire fortune was made w/ slave labour. This by a man that in 1998 DNA tests confirmed Sally Hemings he raped.
U can't just dismiss slavery; he inspired the German
EBanonymous 1 year ago
Comment removed
EBanonymous 1 year ago
@mrpitv
Jefferson wore no "shackles"; he wasn't forced to enslave blacks. Germans said they were "following orders" - same argument.
W/ ur logic "product of the times" excuses slavery & also the Holocaust. Kidnapping, forcing people to work for u for genrations at gunpoint; raping, torturing them; starving & killing them - for profit is slavery. Slavery is ok when Americans do it, but when Speer did it, prison. Slavery isn't joke or "fault"; it's a major crime & even Cogress apologised.
EBanonymous 1 year ago
@EBanonymous Trust me, Jefferson wanted to rid slavery. He got slaves alot, because he thought he could treat them better than most slave owners did. The founders, especially Jefferson were against slavery, but it was to big on the economy to just take away so sudden and drastically. It was wrong, they knew it, but they knew the survival of the country had to have slaves. They made attempts so the future would rid slaves, its noted in the declaration of independence. Which Thomas Jefferson wrote
connorqb17 1 year ago
@connorqb17
When an alcoholic says he's against drinking, do you believe him? You can't be against slavery and own slaves. Not unless you can believe 2 contradictory ideas - hence Orwell.
The Dec of Indep refers to white men, not blacks. In the original draft Jefferson said the Brits forced slavery on colonies, but it wasn't true & Congress changed it.
The country did nto need slaves; the rich plantation owners wanted slaves, and refused to diversify economy. That's the reality
EBanonymous 1 year ago
@connorqb17
you kidnap people and abuse them. You feed them well & beat them a little, but ur kinder than your neighbour. Ur still a kidnapper. Jefferson still owned slaves, and he didn't do them any favours. Which is why in 1775 20 ran away to fight on the British side against the Americans.
Suddenly now everybody is against slavery!. BS. These men knew it ws wrong & didn't care. They made their entire fortunes off child slave labour & Jefferson wrote it. Ur making excuses for their crimes
EBanonymous 1 year ago
@EBanonymous its like you maybe are against fox new bias yet you are very bias in these arguements.. thomas jefferson owned slaves and was against slavery. or a smoker telling you its a bad habit? or an alcholic against drinking. its understandable.
Trouterr 1 year ago
@Trouterr
I'm bias because I say the excuses these people make for slave owners make no sense?What did he do to promote abolitionism? He opposed freeing slaves, including his own. Did he support the Gabriel Presser rebellion of 1800? No.
Jefferson's comments reveal that he understood slavery was wrong, but his actions demonstrate he didn't have a problem with it because he made his entire fortune off it. Criminals know they do bad, but don't care. Jefferson was no different. 2 + 2= 3 to u
EBanonymous 1 year ago
@EBanonymous he inherited the land and slaves. he also inherited a huge debt. he could not free them until he was free of debt, which he never achieved. the excuses? they make sense. Early in his political career, Jefferson attempted twice to legislate the emancipation of slaves, one time in 1769 at the Virginia General Assembly, and another in 1784 at the Continental Congress. this information leads me to believe you are making everything you say up.
Trouterr 1 year ago
@Trouterr
Opposing slave trade wasn't abolitionism.; it was to reduce revolts. He had zero chance of ANY law in 69' or 84'. Slaveowners were comfortable w/ him, but HATED abolitionsim.
He would have been laughed out of office if slave owners ever perceived him a threat to slavery - their pocket. Real abolitionsists like David Walker denounced Jefferson for 1) his racism & 2) his support of slavery in book "notes on Virginia"
Private message me for URL'S if ur serious. Check all my facts.
EBanonymous 1 year ago
@Trouterr He also died broke.
Pheromone2U 1 year ago
@EBanonymous I hear what you are saying and you're correct that it's impossible to condone Jefferson's views on slavery but at the same time we can recognize his contributions to creating a system that eventually abolished slavery. And sought to stake out principles of equality that are the fundamental building blocks for on which our concepts of justice rest. While he didn't go far enough and we haven't come far enough yet, I think we can learn a lot from both Jefferson and Madison.
mrpitv 1 year ago 2
@mrpitv Madison writing the Bill of Rights which protects the freedom of expression gives us the ability to have this conversation without fear of government reprisal. They weren't perfect but it's up to each generation to improve the current conditions and lay the foundation for a better future. I hope you can use your sense of outrage to make such a contribution. thanks for engaging in the discussion.
mrpitv 1 year ago
@mrpitv
No Madison did not give us any rights. That Madison & Jefferson & others supported the 1798 Sedition Act which jailed even Congressmen for free speech. Madison spoke of "parchment paper" as in it's just a piece of paper.
It's people like Shenck & Eugene Debbs & Ellsberg & Assange who fight to get these rights; those "founders" didn't support it in practice.
You can't work to improve the future if your version of the past is based on fairy tales. See the Sedition Act & prove me wrong.
EBanonymous 1 year ago
@mrpitv
The system didn't abolish slavery; it codified it into law & protected it ie Slave Law of 1793. The Civil War resulted in slavery ending, not Jefferson or Madison.
"their" ideas were from John Locke, a man who advocated child labour in his 2nd Treatise. These men didn't stand for equality for blacks or indigenous peoples, women or the poor.
Their "justice" led to Afghanistan, Iraq & millions killed in wars. We learn their words were always hollow, as when trhey hunted down slaves.
EBanonymous 1 year ago
@EBanonymous Jefferson did not invent slavery that institution had been in effect in America beginning in the 1600's well before Jefferson's time. Do not judge Jefferson based on 21st century attitudes. At that time, Africans were brought to America for slavery to work on large farms called plantations and this was an evil institution in my opinion but that was considered "everyday living" at that time.
topazrain 1 year ago
@mrpitv no we haven't come far enough yet, we need more laws like affirmative action. screw those fucking white racist devils. whitey should have to pay reparations. white bastards.
Hannanstl 11 months ago
@EBanonymous While he wasn't perfect, I think Jefferson gave us a framework for making, reasoned moral choices which we can use to question his choices. I'm reminded of a column in the Chicago Daily News by Sydney J. Harris, who interviewed Albert Speer, after his release from Spandau prison. Speer told Harris “If we had been given a proper education as to the probable moral and social consequences of Nazism . . . many of us might have taken steps to abort the movement before it took power.”
mrpitv 1 year ago
@mrpitv
"Hitler's concept of concentration camps... genocide owed much, so he claimed, to his studies of ...United States history. He admired the camps ... the Indians in the wild West; and often praised to his inner circle the efficiency of America's extermination" John Toland 1973 "Adolf Hitler"
That included Speer who was considered Hitler's only friend. He also denied his involvement in the Holocaust. But the "founders" Genocide of Tribes inspired those men. Particularly Jefferson.
EBanonymous 1 year ago
@EBanonymous It's clear that you're not fully informed. Read a book called Vindicating the Founders.
Jitpring 1 year ago 2
00:28 "5000 acre estate"
Uh you mean Slave Plantation where he worked Africans against their will & kept them there at gunpoint. Yes a new nation without "merciless Indian savages" he hated so much he put them in the Declaration of Indepencece. The same man who wanted to "pursue them to extirmination"
Slavery was a good way for rich "gentleman" to "be amused" who "had a keen interest in learning" - Yes, and he supportd torture & killing of slaves who tried to learn to read. That's ur hero.
EBanonymous 1 year ago