Sacrificed son: Isaac or Ishmael?

[furneticritting]

u realize when you say " but how could Muhammad know the right ansrew it means nothing if thats what the bible really says then Muhammad was just copy and paste but made it clearer

[xArabianxBeastx]

@furneticritting If muhammad had realized that don't you think he would have shown that error to others to make people lose faith in christianity?

[Hooverdarnit]

Why did you not include Genesis 16:12? - "And he (Ishmael) will be a wild man. His hand will be against every man, and every man's hand against him. And he shall dwell in the presence of all his brethren (Muslims)."

Would God make a covenent with a wild man? I don't think so.

Genesis 17:21 "But my covenant will I establish with Issac, which Sarah shall bear unto thee at this set time in the next year."

God's people recorded the truth, Muhammad replaced truth with lies. Jesus is God.

[SoAExile]

@Hooverdarnit You are very Wrong about Jesus. Nowhere in the bible Jesus says "i am god" you can read the whole bible and you will never see him say that, not Paul not Matthew but Jesus read the Bible again and see.

[Hooverdarnit]

@SoAExile Does not Jesus refer to his "Father" as God? Of course he does and does so continuously. Jesus claims to be The Messiah (John 4:26) and virtually delares himself to be God (John 10:30) "I and the Father am one."

[SoAExile]

@Hooverdarnit Does it not also say Jesus falls flat on his face and calls to god: does this mean that God is praying to himself.

[Hooverdarnit]

@SoAExile 

[Hooverdarnit]

@SoAExile Believe or not believe what you want. I don't care.

[SoAExile]

@Hooverdarnit Believe it or not i do not care if you care, but do not say that Muhammad(pbuh) for this is an offence.

[Hooverdarnit]

@SoAExile I know, Muhammad (a MAN) has been elivated to a level above Allah in the Islamic world. Hurting a Muslim's feelings causes Muslims to fly airplanes into buildings, bomb buses full of people and slitting the throats of people for drawing a cartoon of Muhammad. How com Muslims don't do any thing if someone says "Allah is a moron?"

[og100glesuxbadly]

How funny, you need the "CORRUPTED" Bible to prove koran? WHY DOESN'T THE KORAN SAY IT WAS ISMAEL?

[gunay205]

Well done Ishmael is the son to be scaraficed

[Texas75023]

Islam's claim that ISHMAEL is the 'Only Son' spoken of in Genesis 22:2 is that ISLAM denies BLOOD SACRIFICE is ever needed for Sin, and BLOOD SACRIFICE is exactly what ABRAHAM was told to do by God.

Watch watch?v=6PlXw-2TdRY

The TRUTH is that GOD does not make mistakes or lie. So when GOD CALLS ISAAC 'your ONLY SON' the only possible meaning is that TO GOD, ACCORDING TO GOD, and IN GOD'S EYES, there is ONLY ONE legitimate SON of Abraham with whom GOD made Covenant. Isaac.

[The3in1trinity]

GENESIS chapters 16 + 17. God's Word has given the answers. Also learn 2 use a Bible Concordance with Hebrew + Greek Lexicon. ONLY son refers 2 Unique. Ppl who use the tools i have mentioned don't get confused!!! There isn't any sleight of hand in God's Word. It is ppl who r ignorant of the Bible tools mentioned who make errors.

[swordofgod1234]

Yes yes we know Ishmael was up for sacrifice not isaac, but whats with the crazy pictures? half of them dont make sense. Whats the difference between you and the Christians and Jews if your so up on "ha ha Im right and ishmael is more significant than Isaac, what then if G-d instead saw you as a stuck up Jew or Christian. we all know how ignorant and arrogant Jews and Christians can be out of pride dont be as them without authority.

[Shaqpack609]

Isaac was the only son because Ismael and Hagar were sent away...thus making Isaac the only son. Read the whole chapter and then make a video. You are picking out what you only want people to know intead of the truth. Read Genesis 21:8-20 and it will confirm my story

[m3d2]

@Shaqpack609

OMG so If I send my son to study In another country that mean I have not Son

[nimanimche]

Quran is about 600 pages and there are books of thousands of pages just about the contradictions!!!

[m3d2]

@nimanimche

liar there is no contradictions in Quran I bet You can't quote 2 contradictions

[nimanimche]

OK dude, you are smart. Now try to find the contradictions in Quran... There ARE lots of them... IF YOU LOOK FOR IT AS YOU DID NOW... Please try to be neutral, and see what you find out... There are contradictions even within the very definition of God in Islam, Christianity and Jewism... Look for them... If there is a god, he/she should not be angry if you find a reasonable argument that he does not exist!

[T3rm3nator]

@nimanimche

he/she would be angry???

my friend clearly u do not the difnition of the word GOD learn it and then come argguing here.

[akonipartz]

this is absolutely a mistake a twisted explanation....

[Garabsare]

What's the oldest commemorative religious event in Judaism?

What's the oldest commemorative religious event in Christianity?

What's the oldest commemorative religious event in Islam?

If U really want to know who is the SACRIFICIAL SON of Abraham*P (Is it Ishma-El*P or is it Isaac?), then U'll have to answer this simple question.

Whoever commemorates the event (of the SACRIFICE) has it rite!!!

Hehehe!!

Peace y'all,

May God always guide us to the TRUTH!

[pauldenouncer]

awesom bro ...Allahouma barik ..

[leecheecheang]

@islamophilic ... you just make newer version of bible story... you are the newer Mohammed to correct the bible?

[cuchulain55]

maybe it was an issac and maybe it was ishmael It really dosnt really matter. But its the essential is it important. It all just moral stories written down by  great spirit knows who.

[chatillon52]

Christians will know this already, but Moslems may not. The author of the video has failed to mention how Hagar and Ishmael were cast out, i.e. disowned, in Genesis 21:10-13. Thus Isaac remained as Abraham's only son. "Salvation is from the Jews" (John 4:22), not Ishmael.

[IslamoPhilic]

I provided 5 verses starting from the minute 1:30 because I knew somebody's gonna say that. You clearly stopped watching before that point. The fourth verse specifically talks about his sonS burying him, meaning that Ishmael remained his son until the day he died. Your answer?

PS. I know about the Bible more than most -and I don't wish to say all- Christians whom I've discussed it with. Did you know that the Vatican now advises its followers not to expect "total accuracy" when reading it?

[chatillon52]

re Genesis 22:2 If you look up the word "only" in the dictionary you will see two definitions: 1) Alone in kind or class; sole: 2) Standing alone by reason of superiority or excellence.

The second definition of "only" is likely used here, corresponding to the uses of the original Hebrew which it translates. Moreover, a fuller reading of the passage is invariably "thine only son Isaac, whom thou lovest" indicating how Isaac's position is superior to others.

[IslamoPhilic]

No. God promised to make Ishmael a great nation. Why is Isaac anymore special?

Btw I don't know Hebrew, but we're assuming you know the truth AND telling it. Taking it by the English translation, "only" means "only".

[mounir1426]

>chatillon52

>"The second definition of "only" is likely used here"

thanks for the good laugh

it reminded me of when Clinton used to say ""It depends on what the meaning of the word 'is' is"

[invincibletruths]

hehehehehhhhh...ahahahahahaaah­hhh... they theorized the bible's discrepancies too much, when they thought they found a theory that suits their taste they're dumbfounded just to find out that they are lost again in their mazes of theoritical craps.

They change one part, the other part contradicts it. They change the contradictory part, another part contradicts the one they've just changed. On and on and on....

[mounir1426]

so true. it makes you see in practical terms what is meant by:

4:82 "Do they not consider the Qur'an (with care)? Had it been from other Than Allah, they would surely have found therein Much discrepancy."

[sicsempertyrannis12]

Qur'an 29:27 "And We bestowed on him Isaac and Jacob, and We established the prophethood and the Scripture among his seed,"

No mention of Ishmael as being within the prophetic tradition (if you believe the "infallible" Qur'an).

Also, see "watch?v=_BAwVgaip34&feature=r­elated"

[mounir1426]

>sicsempertyrannis12

>No mention of Ishmael as being within the prophetic tradition (if you believe the "infallible" Qur'an).

is your bold statement based on that single verse or your claim holds for the entire Qur'an?

(in which case I will assume you have read it)

[chatillon52]

What's so "bold" about the statement? Your book says that Isaac and Jacob were bestowed upon Abraham and the prophethood and Scripture among his seed. The is no mention of Ishmael. Why not?

Also, see watch?v=_BAwVgaip34&feature=r elated" for a discussion of the Hebrew from which the English translation is made.

Enjoy! :D

[mounir1426]

>chatillon52

>What's so "bold"

denying the prophethood of one of God's prophet without proof is bold to say the least. Denying it while knowing it is wicked. But you might not understand what I mean by that that since you're not Muslim.

all it takes to prove you and sicsempertyrannis12 wrong is one verse. I give you 2

19:54 "AND CALL to mind, through this divine writ, Ishmael. [39] Behold, he was always true to his promise, and was an apostle [of God], a prophet"

[mounir1426]

(contd)

what?so not only do we read in the Qur'an that Ishmael was a prophet but he was also an apostle. (a degree above prophet,carrying a revelation to his people).

4:163 "Lo! We inspire thee as We inspired Noah and the prophets after him, as We inspired Abraham and Ishmael and Isaac and Jacob and the tribes, and Jesus and Job and Jonah and Aaron and Solomon, and as we imparted unto David the Psalms;"

for more

google QuranSearch (hit I'm feeling lucky)

type Ishmael under "Word Search:"

[chatillon52]

Thank you for your response. I will leave you to sort out the apparent contradictions between Q29:27, to which I alluded above, and your citations from Q19:54 and 4:163. Which ones are naskh (abrograted),which are mansukh (abrogating)?

Please see "watch?v=_BAwVgaip34&feature=r elated" for a description of the original Hebrew text, which puts this entire discussion to bed.

[invincibletruths]

chatillon52: "I will leave you to sort out the apparent contradictions between Q29:27, to which I alluded above, and your citations from Q19:54 and 4:163. Which ones are naskh (abrograted),which are mansukh (abrogating)?"

The only naskh and mansukh is your conjecture, but your overwhelming ignorance certainly was never naskh and mansukh ;)

Sweet dreams.

[chatillon52]

Thanks for offering me sweet dreams. Perhaps you might also offer a more compelling explanation of Ishmael's claim to prophethood. This video uses Biblical quotes to assert a point. I have rebutted with a countering opinion. I have received quotes from the Qur'an, which somehow seem to be contradicted by other quotes from the Qur'an. So why is there all this confusion in what should be a simple explanation?

[mounir1426]

>chatillon52

>"I have rebutted with a countering opinion"

Let's review your line of arguments together shall we?

1/You try first to justify the "only son" by speculating that Ishmael was "disowned" you bring up Genesis 21:10-13.

I missed the part where he was disowned by Abraham...was it before or after God promised him to make also Ishmael into a great nation because he IS HIS SON (Gen 21:13)?

[mounir1426]

2/and you try to link this to a completely of context quote John 4:22

>"Salvation is from the Jews" (John 4:22), you add "not Ishmael" !?

What has a dispute between the Samaritans (a branch of judaism) and Jews has to do with anything?!

IRONICALLY Samaritans are said to be worshipping without knowing "because they rejected the prophets".

(see my previous "bold" comment)

[mounir1426]

3/You then change tactic and try to explain that actually "only" means rather something along the line of uniquely and/or superior

(apparently more in accordance with original hebrew. I'll get back to that).

Interestingly one of the common definition and example that english dictionaries invariable give is:

having no siblings, "an only child"

For the 2nd definition do you have any other example than the idiom "the one and only chatillon52"?

[mounir1426]

4/Since you realized you needed to get back to the hebrew to backup your point you refer a video repeatedly

watch?v=_BAwVgaip34&feature=re­lated

which starts off saying.... Isaac was NOT the only son lol

and even better the "only son" part is apparently NOT in the original hebrew text !?

And it goes on reading through Genesis that Ishmael was blessed etc

Have you actually watched that video lol?

[mounir1426]

5/you then try to happily hang on and develop onto a a digression started by sicsempertyrannis12

in a simple language both of you made the following fallacy

he quotes

X: A & C are elements of set P

you inferred (based on you belief not logic) that X1: B is not an element of set P

I quoted

Y: B is an element of set P

Z: A,B & C are elements of set P

I quoted Y,Z to refute the quote X and claim X1.Nothing to do with your "only son" claims. The only confusion I see here is in your logic.

[mounir1426]

6/Since you're keen on the subject please indulge me. let's look at it from the Bible POV now.

You believe Ishmael a.s. is not a prophet based on your reading of the Bible.

Care to explain this?

Gen 21:20 "God was with the boy as he grew up"

Does God was with him ring a bell?

Gen 21:22, Gen 26:27-28, Exodus 4:12 , 2 Chronicles 1:1

or (since I assume you're Christian)

Acts 10:38

But then again what is written in the original hebrew (or greek for NT) would certainly enlight this discussion

[chatillon52]

"Does God was with him ring a bell?"

As clear as the bells that ring out in Mecca, LOL!

God was Ishmael and protected him, as He promised to do. He did so for His own purposes, just as He was with others mentioned in scripture for purposes that He ordained. You and I differ on the purpose God ordained for Ishmael. Perhaps Genesis 16:12 will provide some insight for you.

[chatillon52]

Please do me the courtesy of revisiting my question: I simply ask for an explanation of how you, as a Moslem, reconcile Q29:27 with traditional Moslem claims, i.e. How do you as a Moslem interpret Q29:27, given its apparent exclusiveness, ESPECIALLY in light of the other suras you offer?

Of course, you may find it somewhat easier just to set up a straw dog and knock it down rather than answering honestly. Straw dogs dont bite back, after all. :D

[chatillon52]

"Have you actually watched that video lol?"

LOL! Did YOU? If so, you will have learned that the Hebrew word that is used to describe Isaac in Genesis 22:2 is the equivalent of unique in English, or as the definition I offered, standing apart by reason of superiority or excellence.

And nobody disputes that Ishmael was Abrahams son and would receive God's protection for God's own purpose. What would that be, I wonder? Read Genesis 16:12 and find out.

[chatillon52]

"You then change tactic and try to explain that actually "only" means rather something along the line of uniquely and/or superior"

Not a change in tactics. Additional nails in the coffin.

For the secondary definition of only see w w w. answers. Com / only. Its online and anybody can find it.

For an explanation of the original Hebrew which demands this understanding for Genesis 22:2, see "watch?v=_BAwVgaip34&feature=r elated", which effectively puts this entire discussion to bed

[mounir1426]

you cannot have your cake and eat it too.

it is quite clear you started with def #1

(Ishmael disowned therefore Isaac sole son)

and you switched to def #2 (Isaac not sole son but special the argument of the other video)

you could have just admitted you changed your line of defense. Nobody would have renounced Christianity over that :). Anybody can see these are 2 incompatible line of defense.

anyway I've spent too much time on this anyway

Peace!

[chatillon52]

"What has a dispute between the Samaritans (a branch of judaism) and Jews has to do with anything?!"

Let me helpyou. This passage from John demonstrates that salvation and fulfillment of the scripture is through the tribe of Judah. Not through any of the other tribes of Israel. Not through any of the other lineages descendant from Abraham. Not through Ishmael or his descendants. Not through Mohammed. Rather significant detail, in my view.

[chatillon52]

"Let's review your line of arguments together shall we?"

All righty then!

"I missed the part where he was disowned by Abraham...was it before or after God promised him to make also Ishmael into a great nation because he IS HIS SON (Gen 21:13)?"

My goodness! Yes you DID miss it, didnt you? It occurs in Sarahs statement in 21:10, as confirmed by God in 21:12. See? The fact that Ishmael would be made a nation does not mean hed receive a patrimony from Abraham. :)

[IslamoPhilic]

We gave you a clear verse from the Qur'an showing Isma'eel was an apostle, and the Bible shows that he was blessed and not "a bastard" as some crazy Christians claim who don't know crap about their Holy Book.

29:27 says that God gave prophet Ibruheem Is-haq and Ya'qoob (Isac & Jacob), and made prophethood in his offsprong. How does this say that Isma'eel isn't a prophet? I mean it doesn't confirm it, but certainly doesn't deny it! It's confirmed in the other verse + Hadeeth

[chatillon52]

Yes, yes. And as I pointed out, your book leaves some questions unanswered.

Read Q 29:27 in three translations:

ALI "And We gave (Abraham) Isaac and Jacob, and ordained among his progeny Prophethood and Revelation,"

PICKTHALL "And We bestowed on him Isaac and Jacob, and We established the prophethood and the Scripture among his seed"

SHAKIR "And We granted him Ishaq and Yaqoub, and caused the prophethood and the book to remain in his seed"

The prophethood is of Jacob's seed alone.

[IslamoPhilic]

Duh. Ordaining among his progeny prophethood and revelation doesn't mean it's only in the mentioned names. Besides it's proven in an explicit text, so what are you arguing about?

[walidot]

Huh? Hes not talking about Ishaq seed hes talking about Ibrahims seed...

[chatillon52]

By the way, it is glaringly obvious that you have proven the prophethood of Mohammed with a quotation from the Qur'an. How can that be persuasive to anybody but one who is already inclined to agree?

[IslamoPhilic]

You mean Christians use something other than the Bible to prove Jesus? (I'm not doubting Jesus was a prophet, just saying)

btw we can prove the Qur'an scientifically. I made a couple of vids on that so visit my channel :)

[IslamoPhilic]

We know Isma'eel was a prophet AND a messenger too from Chapter Murium (Mary) (19:54).

[invincibletruths]

Part1. Al-Ankabuut(29):27: "and We bestowed upon him (offspring like) Isaac and Jacob, and bestowed prophethood and the Book on his descendants and granted him his reward in this world; he will certainly be among the righteous in the Hereafter."

Explanation: The Prophet Isaac was the son and the Prophet Jacob the grandson. The other sons of the Prophet Abraham have not been mentioned here, because from his Midianite descendants only the Prophet Shu'aib was appointed a Prophet, ...

[amooballer]

good video... great points. i spit my food out when i saw pope and his "oh shit" cloud.

[spiritlite]

SalaamAlaikum, MASHALLAH, JAZAKALLAH KHAIR.

[sightuponlight]

The case is too strong, I can't see christians lining up to refute this :D

Good work, Jazak'Allah.

With Dua,

Sight.

[IslamoPhilic]

Just for the record, I do NOT remove comments (unless they blaspheme Islam or the Quran or holy prophets..etc).

I'm waiting for a good answer just like you bro :)

[sightuponlight]

IslamoPhilic said,

''Just for the record, I do NOT remove comments (unless they blaspheme Islam or the Quran or holy prophets..etc).''

With all due respect what possessed you to make such a comment to a fellow Muslim? Can you explain where I might have ''blasphemed Islam or the Quran or holy prophets''?

Do you make such comments to all those who reply to your videos? Im very offended bro :(

With Dua,

Sight.

[IslamoPhilic]

No no bro! I just meant that I don't censor comments, so if those guys have anything to say they should go ahead.

All I'm saying is that there has not been ANY good responses which I removed, that's all :)

[sightuponlight]

Sorry brother IslamoPhilic I've got it wrong... Do forgive me brother. BTW, I love your vids, Marsha'Allah.

With Dua,

Sight.

[IslamoPhilic]

Ok, I forgive you only if you rate my Bible & Polygamy video lol. Christians wolfed it down and now it's only 2.5 stats :-/

[sightuponlight]

IslamoPhilic said,

''Ok, I forgive you only if you rate my Bible & Polygamy video lol. Christians wolfed it down and now it's only 2.5 stats :-/.''

Jazak'Allah bro(for forgiving me). I will rate it 5 stars. Your videos deserve more than 5 stars. You can count on me, Insha'Allah.

With Dua,

Sight.

[salam752]

ma sha Allah, very very excellent video, I was thinking of making a video regarding the same issue but you took the load of my shoulder , thank you and please keep up

[IslamoPhilic]

Feel free to "steal" it and put it on your channel bro, I get more points when more people watch it ahahaha

[salam752]

thank you , may Allah Almighty rewards you high level in paradise with our beloved Muhammad peace be upon him

[invincibletruths]

I'm not surprised if in the future they make a newer version of the bible to correct these errors so they can claim to be an "honest" cut paster.

[IslamoPhilic]

Oh, watch my video "Bible Endorses Pedophilia? Not anymore!" to see how they changed it THREE TIMES over the years!

[mounir1426]

or when gentiles are not called "dogs" but cute little "puppies" to remove any remote perception of racism

watch?v=X5ZN-231GdE

[invincibletruths]

"watch?v=X5ZN-231GdE"

dogs...2008...puppies...puppie­s...puppies...2012...pokemon..­.pokemon...pokemon...2020...??­? any suggestion to inspire strawmans?

ROFL.