That is indeed Judo. It's the first throw that anybody learns, Ogoshi (Hip Throw). Funny how it never occurred to me to hold on to the opponent's head and follow him down to the mat, with all of your weight. It's an easy throw to reverse; just scoot around a little further to get away from the thrower's hip, and he won't have any leverage anymore. There is no Pa-Kua here.
That is not Judo, it's Shuai Jiao, Chinese grappling. It is a kung fu system that focus takedowns and throws. Shuai Jiao has been around for the last 5,000 years and many believe it's what the Japanese based their Jujitsu on, and eventually created Judo from. So many of the throws look the same, because Judos great great grandpa is Shuai Jiao lol
lol. that blue guy was completly humiliated. There was no harmony in his movments at all. I have no idea what he was using but it sertanly wasnt Ba Gua Zhang or even Taekwon-do. If it was ether one of thoes arts it was insulting
i dont have a clue about martial arts but the guy with the black clothes seem to be an idiot correct me if im wrong but i cant see harmony in his moves
I don't think any of this is Korean. The formalities at the start (the greetings and stuff) look typically Chinese to me. By style, it looks like jeet kune do or something quite similar (both fighters). In any case very kick-oriented.
For actual Korean Baguazhang, search on youtube for "1980's Taiwan Full Contact Tournament (1of6)"
In that clip, Blue is an African-American fellow. From what my former bagua brothers tell me, he was a 1st-year student of Park Bok Nam and was stationed in Korea at the time.
Park Bok Nam teaches a slightly unorthodox Bagua system. Google "Park Bok Nam" and it's the first result. Park's is a good system, and Park is a good teacher (I'm a former student of his).
we`ve been decieved by martial arts films... it`s always so disapointing to watch this kind of fights... i guess this is why they say it`s only for defence... i`ll complement it with: "is only for defence... against guys that don`t know shit about martial arts"...
i guess i`ll just continue studying Xingyiquan... and then hope i`d never have to use it...
is thi really ba gua? they are not using much defence and i kno ba gua requires much defence and circular motions. but i dont kno anything about ba gua fighting so ya...
The guy in the black is not using bagua. He is using a school of korean taekwondo, i dont remember how to write the actual name but it is pronounced as (Bah-Gwa) which is probably what lead to the confusion of this name. The guy in yellow is using chinese wrestling i dont remember the actual name for that either, hope this helps.
addendum. the martial artist in yellow is using shui Jiao a style of chinese wrestling. The guy in black is using bagwe a style of taekwondo, it is pronounced as ba gwa which is why the title may be confusing but it is not baguazhang. Skilled fighters but its hard to compare when they are using two different styles.
Hmm... i know bagua zhan has some throws in it. It's because their style of martial arts used to train in the same park in beijing as the chinese wrestling style. But whether this is proper bagua zhang i dont know... maybe the guy didnt apply any other techniques other than the throws. He beat down the black guy good :)
O de amarelo conhece Shuaijiao, pois sabe derrubar bem, e chuta muito rápido. E é só. O de preto é uma lástima. Não consegui ver Baguazhang na técnica deles.
The fight format is "kuoshu," which was developed in the 1920's and 30's by the Nanjing Central Martial Arts Institute. It's been refined since then. Taiwan is the main center of this fight format; most everyone else fights in the Sanshou/Sanda format developed in China.
Kuoshu used to be pretty hardcore - no pads but groin protection (under the clothes). Elbows and knees allowed. One of my teachers says that people were maimed/killed regularly in kuoshu tournaments. It's safer now.
The guy in blue is representing some of Korean bagua school but shows no bagua, nor real kung fu of any variety. Truly terrible performance regardless of the system. The commentators, as far as I can tell, only refer to him as "the Korean."
The guy in yellow from Taipei is using shuaijiao, aka "Chinese wrestling." His name is Hsieh Chi Shan(?). Probably a student of Chang Tung Sheng. The commentators say his shuaijiao is "pretty badass."
When I wrote "Korean Bagua," I mean a Bagua school that was physically located in Korea. There was a very active Chinese martial arts scene in the 60's and 70's in Korea near the Chinese border and at least one Bagua school that can be verified. Google "Park Bok Nam" for information that school. Park now teaches in the US but originally taught in Korea.
There are older forms in Tae Kwon Do called Palgwe, which means "Eight Trigrams" and is the Korean translation of the words "Baqua." These forms were "official" from '67 - '71, then phased out by the Kukkikwon (the official international TKD governing body).
Based on this info and Blue's techniques, I believe Blue is a TKD fighter, probably from an older school that still taught the Palgwe forms. Hence, he is a TKD "Palgwe" fighter, not a Baguazhang fighter.
The announcers and TV producers must have been confused because of the translation and also because Park Bok Nam was fielding Baguazhang teams at these tournaments during this time frame. The label on the right-hand side (for Blue) clearly reads "Bagua" in the parantheses.
this does not look like bagua to me, in my training i have never seen heavy handed sloppy techniques like the guy in blue no footwork circle walking or anything looks more like a bad tkd fight
Glad a lot of people realized this IS NOT Bagua... No mud-stepping, no circle walking, no circle shirk deflection, nothing. I was disppointed seeing this video. Except for the fact that the guy in the yellow is actually quite good at whatever random art he's using, LOL.
Same here. This doesn't look like BaGua, in Bagua you have to constantly move, all your kinetic energy comes from the circle-walking and palms and is released on impact still while moving.
The yellow guy definitely isn't doing bagua. Nor is the black.
The black guy does way too much bouncing, like western kickboxing. The yellow guy doesn't do much either aside from throw a few kicks and grab the black guy's legs.
bagua can sometimes be seen as a tai-chi like martial art. Its somewhat fluid. If you've ever played tekken, a good deal of xiaoyu's moves are bagua zhang style.
baqua is an internal martial art, related to tai chi and hsing yi. its is based around walking the circle (kind of like a tiger circling its prey) and being able to spin any attack off. imagine fighting a spinning pinball. hsing yi is the opposite, driving straight thru ur foe. both internal styles, both deadly if taught properly. they all take at least 8-10 years b4 u can demonstrate in public.
You all seem to be missing one of the core concept. Martial Arts is war. It always has been and it always will be. You lack the warrior spirit and you loose. You can't go into a real fight and play nice.
Some people are claiming that this is the real deal. Tell me; did Dong Hai Chuan also fight like this? Yin fu? I am sure they aren't famous for this $hit.
If Dong Hai Chuan fought like this, then I am sorry to say that modern kickboxers would have beaten him everytime.
PS- Note that I am not against Kung Fu, but those who consider this to be the representation of it.
This is supposed to be professional Sanda match (full contact + no protection). But both fighters aren't too professional though. Besides, many refused to make use of own clan technique when comes to Sanda switched to kickboxing+grappling
I agree 100% I would only say that in the end you have to just do the best you can and try to win. Representing style is not easy if it's mentally awkward for you.
It seems that some random 80 kg street fighter can destroy both of them together. There's no use for them to waste their time only to be able to fight like this.
Seriously, a Muay Thai kick would be too difficult for them to withstand. Simply wearing fancy clothes and making flowery stance doesn't make anyone fight better. These guys must wake up to reality.
If Muay Thai slap kick from serious practitioners like Thai fighters, yes it's deadly blow. For other race & those who never thicken their feet with wood+banana tree, u'll just need to bend out ur elbow and wait for his feet to hit ur elbow. He'll be down immediately
Hmm. I was hopping to see some Bau Gua defensive take downs but the guy in black, who it looks like is the Bau Gua fighter based on the comments, is just way to overeager. The guy in yellow is way too good for the guy in black to press the fight like he is.
Yeah, they're at ShiDa - a couple of blocks from my house. Also, I believe the guy in yellow has a bit of a shuai jiao background, which is why he is able to pull off those crazy throws and takedowns.....
It's funny how people don't understand anything... Real chinese martial artist know that you must unlearn the form at the highest level. Even so, all martial arts look the same in real fight, considering it's a complete discipline, unlike aikido or judo where people don't know how to punch or kick. You have to pay attention to very little details to see style.
Here, all the takedowns are done using circular steps, bagua steps. But it's too subtile for most people to see it.
All martial art looks the same in real fight because most will opt for kickboxing+grappling and forgo their own martial art technique. Sanda is best example including this vid. Not much Bagua moves
One should know that one's whole body is the weapon. Whatever mouvement should just be natural mouvement and not from any style. Each of us has our own style, the form is just a way to find our own spirit. For ex, all the people focusing on grappling will all almost look the same, no matter the style. Just like the way each of us walks.
At the highest level, bagua should not be bagua anymore. People are so narrow minded about style.. Everything should alway be visible to people. They're wrong...
Pure certain martial art clan extremists will try to make every move according to their arts. Some really do, so when they fight, u could immediately tell what fist are they using. Some would forgo own art and go for kickboxing
exactly, because punching is punching and kicking is kicking. Grappling is grappling as well with the goal being to dominate your opponent. I agree with your other comment of not to grapple in self defense because of what you said and also your enemy could have a weapon.
This was outcome from group research on several incidents involving martial artists ecountering gangsters and robbers. Trying to find out how did these martial artists fell and some even got killed. Their mistakes: Some fought like no-contact sparring, didn't know how to use martial art in reality or got into grappling and ended being slashed/bashed by accomplice.
*Correction* All POOR martial artists look the same in a fight. If you know what you're really doing, your body should drip of gongfu in a confrontation.
Saying someone is a bagua fighter, yet they remain rooted in place while fighting, obviously demonstrates that something is not carrying over.
Aheyne, I understand part of your remarks but not all. all POOR martial aritsts means those who are poorly trained look the same in a fight like blur thinking of what to do next, hesitate?
Hi Taekarkung, What I mean is that in the US it's very common to see a "martial artist", who has been studying for several years, go spar with someone and simply revert to western boxing. Either that or kickboxing. It will bear no resemblance to whatever art they were studying. This is generally true of kung fu, taekwondo, kenpo, etc.
I mean they don't fight like they train, since they don't train to fight. They separate training from combat
Hi Aheyne, in fact not just Americans, others too don't really fight using the martial art they trained just learned the patterns. I'm trying to unlock the patterns move and try it on reality, some works. See whether I could rejoin kungfu class by next month to test it further with Sanda fighters. How bout u?
I agree -- I think it's simply a result of training not carrying over into sparring.
Hopefully in time and with conscientious practice there will be a strong influence on your fighting style. Personally I'm not there yet -- and seeing as I just began a new martial art (Bagua), it won't happen for some time.
But it still strikes me as funny seeing people who study a specific art, then just box when they spar... their art devolves into the same few strikes that everyone else uses.
Thanks Aheyne! Most are still used to streetfight (basic punches & kicks). So, when they got themselves into sudden ambush, 1st thing that appears on their mind would be something that they are used to - streetfight that exchanges blows :-D
As I stated in my above comment Martial Arts is not friendly, you use what you can. That and you need to watch some more MMA :) fyi I take Bagua as well.
See, it's shit like this that makes Chinese martial arts fighters look second-rate. If this is a good example of real Bagua usage, or indicative of Chinese martial arts in general, then I give up. PATHETIC.
The fighters are probably Bagua Fist practitioners but when comes to Sanda (Freestyle Sparring) most Chinese martial artists will go for Chinese Kickboxing, grappling & Muay Thai.
I study MMA and submission wrestling and must admit that I really enjoyed watching the dude in the yellow scoring takedown after takedown, especially the very explosive single leg/high crotch at 0:25. He must have been a pretty strong dude to pull it off after bending so much at the waist.I enjoyed this.
non ci sono radici flessibili. L'albero ha imparato ad inchinarsi per non staccarsi da terra. non c'è efficacia nel combattimento e la box in'esistente
is there a possibility to have a fight with a baa gua fighter in germany near cologne, i´ve done the Avci Wing Tsung since 1996 and would like to check how it is working in battle with an other skilled fighter of a style like baa gua seems to be after what i´ve seen , this is no challenge i just want to improve my knowing in martial arts ...have a nice time and greets from cologne
Guy in black keeps reverting to freestyle and looks more like jeet kune do to me . The guy in yellow is obviously skilled in chinese wrestling and is letting the guy in black bring the fight to him
That idiot in black is not maintaining his form at all whatsoever. What a fool. What did he spend his time training for, then? He shouldn't be so bouncy and he doesn't even utilize the initial stance.
I'm surprised they're allowing him to continue fighting like that. He's practically insulting his sensei with every step, every hasty move.
He starts off with kicks? IDIOT! You should get your form right, and circle your opponent a little. Get the trigram in your mind first.
ok first of all attacks to bak fo the body r illegal so even if u circle around em u wont be lalowed to hit em n second there is no sensei in baguar sensei is japanese n applies ot japanese martial arts chinese use the word sifu
Well, I'll be honest with you, and not try to promote my fav style:
In general, I love internal martial arts. The main three 'king-ka's' are Bagua, Taichi and Xingyi. I like both Taiji and Bagua. I WOULD recommend Bagua, definitely, but you should read up on Taiji too; it would be wrong for me to say: YES!! Do Bagua, cos it t3h pwn h4x0r!!
First read up on wikipedia and see which style you like best out of internal arts, then go for it.
Generally, soft arts try not to meet opponents' force
with an opposing force, e.g. a block, but with a 'pushing' or 'sticking' technique. They do not attempt to use kicks and punches to attack, but seek to either wait for your opponents' force (taiji) and use it against him, or like Bagua, they combine 'soft' and 'hard' techniques seamlessly, so you can either wait, and push, or attack first.
Bagua is a mix of soft and hard. Tajiji is primarily soft. But for smaller people they both work perfect.
I recommend you read up first then decide yourself
Haha...I'm afrai that outside Internal Martial atrs, my area of confidence in my knowledge ends; ^_^; LOL. Sorry, but I don't know much about external hard styles. My apologies.
There are some really good martial arts forums on the internet, though: I recommend yoy go check one of them out. They can definitely help you. :)
Leopard fist might be something for you, or you could do tiger, catlike but massive power. Id say learn Five Animals since they all complete each other and are both soft and hard. You should practice for your overall health and vitality so both hard and soft are necerssary. Sifu said that its foolish to leave out the internal bit just because you want to train hard, they benefit from each other.
Always a good idea to start with something like Wing Chun, even if it doesn't work for you personally, it will automatically help you develop the reflexes and it's always something good to fall back on because it's solid...
well i mean that 3:25 - 3:33 is absolutely ridiculous.......the one in the black kimono is a total jerk.... if i was the yellow guy id kick his bum that hard that he´ll need the help of his children to wipe his ass...cuz his asshole would be somewhere at his back torn open and pressed deep inside so he´ll be pretty fucked...
Dude!This is so wrong!In Ba Gua,Ur suppose to move around in Circles and counter your opponent's attack,not rushing to your opponent like some crazy bull just attacking all the way
bit sloppy from the bagua guy, he needs more practice, hes waaay to eager, keeps over commiting himself and clearly hes twitchy and on edge. maybe not used to keepin his cool under pressure. only 1 solution more fight training.lol
The person in blue is not using Bagua at all. Very low level of skill in Bagua displayed. Bagua has kicks, but he is not using the palms to set them up properly. Nor is he using the circle walking effectively at the point of attack. The person in yellow is demonstrating effective Chinese Shuaijiao (wrestling). However, Bagua has Shuaijiao as well from Cheng Tinghua, but the person in blue was unfortunately not trained in this aspect.
Yellow guy's good.. impressive
Rantomon 1 month ago
watch their hands at 3:24. that is seriously amazing and this is why many kung fus are better than mma.
TheDragorin 1 month ago
wow lol the guy in yellow totally pwned the guy in black
uiluj13 2 months ago
ShuaiJiao yes, BaGua, no. There is not a single application of BaGua here. I know because I've studied both arts.
yjmsrv 2 months ago
@yjmsrv i know bagua as its a big part of my art kuntao but ive never heard or shuaijiao. what is it? whats its main principals and such?
TheDragorin 1 month ago
the yellow from TaiWan, the black is from South Korea.
joylaval 3 months ago
@To0t... Bagua never lets the feet really leave the ground. It's called mud-stepping. If the guy bouncing around is doing Bagua, I'm doing your mom.
GrifterZed 3 months ago
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fuck this i'm just gunna gown down to shoalin and become a monk
minkusink6 3 months ago
TW go1
tracedj 4 months ago
lightning fast movement, it is time to go in the Matrix
kaimingw 5 months ago
TAIWAN MARTIAL ARTS FTW. China is primarily just wushu and fake masters. Damn Cultural revolution. : (
Supercucu123 5 months ago
The commentator says the guy in yellow does "ShuaiJiao" as well as "Judo".
Supercucu123 5 months ago
wow that guy in the yellow is freakin badass
RRRRapify 6 months ago
That fake bagua guy was getting thrown around like a sac of shit! lol
oscie1 6 months ago
This throwing art was developed at shaolin originally.Original kungfu is the birthplace off all the throws you find in judo and jujitsu
oscie1 6 months ago
Flowery fists and embroidered kicks! This Garbage Zhang not Ba Gua Zhang!
FistofJello 6 months ago
2:17
so badass
jungleboards 7 months ago
That is indeed Judo. It's the first throw that anybody learns, Ogoshi (Hip Throw). Funny how it never occurred to me to hold on to the opponent's head and follow him down to the mat, with all of your weight. It's an easy throw to reverse; just scoot around a little further to get away from the thrower's hip, and he won't have any leverage anymore. There is no Pa-Kua here.
TaiChiMonster 9 months ago
That is not Judo, it's Shuai Jiao, Chinese grappling. It is a kung fu system that focus takedowns and throws. Shuai Jiao has been around for the last 5,000 years and many believe it's what the Japanese based their Jujitsu on, and eventually created Judo from. So many of the throws look the same, because Judos great great grandpa is Shuai Jiao lol
GuamKomudo 6 months ago in playlist bagua
Judo?
rockrowley70 9 months ago
The guy in black must be a beginner and not a master
102293 9 months ago
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These guys are horrible
patrickhenrysghost 10 months ago
柔道在實戰中是很有用的。
練柔道的腰腿力量很足，
真打起來，
比很多只打空氣不打沙包，
光練拳架沒有打擊力道的表演武術，
強太多。
Toryonline 10 months ago
this is nonsense, since when bagua starts to hop like that
zellzhou88 11 months ago
lol. that blue guy was completly humiliated. There was no harmony in his movments at all. I have no idea what he was using but it sertanly wasnt Ba Gua Zhang or even Taekwon-do. If it was ether one of thoes arts it was insulting
raysetiger285 1 year ago
btw this video is soo ...LOL!!! this looks like a sloppy Mexican fight in high school...and you call yourselves baguazhang users....?
ShuyuKoukin 1 year ago
i dont have a clue about martial arts but the guy with the black clothes seem to be an idiot correct me if im wrong but i cant see harmony in his moves
JohnFistikhs13 1 year ago
Is the guy in blue Ben Hill?...lol.
BGZBadboy 1 year ago
dammm yellow dude just pwned black dude several times
JustinCaparas 1 year ago
There was more footage of this match with a black guy doing actual Ba Gua Zhang, but I have been able to recover it...
Eldynamo 1 year ago
I don't think any of this is Korean. The formalities at the start (the greetings and stuff) look typically Chinese to me. By style, it looks like jeet kune do or something quite similar (both fighters). In any case very kick-oriented.
paddotk 1 year ago
@121kimo Lmao umad bro? Seriously kid get a grip of yourself little queer you wouldn't do shit irl.
KIoothommel 1 year ago 8
For actual Korean Baguazhang, search on youtube for "1980's Taiwan Full Contact Tournament (1of6)"
In that clip, Blue is an African-American fellow. From what my former bagua brothers tell me, he was a 1st-year student of Park Bok Nam and was stationed in Korea at the time.
Park Bok Nam teaches a slightly unorthodox Bagua system. Google "Park Bok Nam" and it's the first result. Park's is a good system, and Park is a good teacher (I'm a former student of his).
wolfram49 1 year ago
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wolfram49 1 year ago
i know this video is old, but its the worst display of ba gua!
121kimo 1 year ago
@121kimo I know your mom is old, she is the worst display of a milf!
KIoothommel 1 year ago 11
MORTAL KOMBAT!
22angele 1 year ago
no bagua, rather JKD or TKD or something.
paddotk 1 year ago
WAIT A FREAKIN MIN, DID HE JUST PICK THAT DUDE UP BY ONE LEG WITH ONE ARM - lol!!!!!
Melanatedone 1 year ago
Hmmm, the "Wile E. Coyote School of Kungfu"...
taowarrior99 1 year ago
Such crap. Both show a lack of form and composure.
PlatypusReign 1 year ago
@NsFDeaD yeah that's exactly what I was thinking, they weren't moving around much either.
PrinceACE8 1 year ago
lol.....
1234lycan 1 year ago
The guy in black is being owned.
bookluva 1 year ago
i train bagua and the guy in the yelow is good and that toss flip he did 2 his oponent was realy good basic manevre
and let me ask this
ba gua is all about circular movment
coudnt that guy in the blue just walk in circle and do some intense punches??
77127Shadow 1 year ago
This ain't no ba gua
allencrider 1 year ago
this is totally Wai Jia Chuan Ba gu zhang is Nei Jia Chuan.
souleater1994122 1 year ago
not even close to Ba Gua Chang
Im wondering what they are using though
blackhack725 1 year ago
we`ve been decieved by martial arts films... it`s always so disapointing to watch this kind of fights... i guess this is why they say it`s only for defence... i`ll complement it with: "is only for defence... against guys that don`t know shit about martial arts"...
i guess i`ll just continue studying Xingyiquan... and then hope i`d never have to use it...
galeno07 1 year ago
i like this vid because the guy in yellow shows what the bagua is about. using the enemies power to defeat the enemy
armondh 1 year ago
is thi really ba gua? they are not using much defence and i kno ba gua requires much defence and circular motions. but i dont kno anything about ba gua fighting so ya...
BellaKatara321 1 year ago
This sport is shit, not even real fighting, just dancing around lookin like nobs....
cooliefake 1 year ago
i wonder if the yellow guy would beat an mma fighter, i wonder
lsean 1 year ago
The guy in yellow didn't utilize strength to make his moves work, like most wrestling styles do, though.
Every throw he did required little to no effort from him.
I don't know what style he's using, but I can tell he doesn't use, or rely on strength.
If you look carefully, you'll notice the guy in black is just re-enacting the sets of moves that he has practiced.
While the guy in yellow is utilizing a form.
rockleex 1 year ago
the guy in yellow is doing bagua becuz bagua has a lot of throwing and chin na moves
fudgieyorkie 1 year ago
The guy in the black is not using bagua. He is using a school of korean taekwondo, i dont remember how to write the actual name but it is pronounced as (Bah-Gwa) which is probably what lead to the confusion of this name. The guy in yellow is using chinese wrestling i dont remember the actual name for that either, hope this helps.
lsean 1 year ago
@lsean(myself)
addendum. the martial artist in yellow is using shui Jiao a style of chinese wrestling. The guy in black is using bagwe a style of taekwondo, it is pronounced as ba gwa which is why the title may be confusing but it is not baguazhang. Skilled fighters but its hard to compare when they are using two different styles.
lsean 1 year ago
@lsean "Shui jiao" means boiled dumplings. I think you mean shuai.
FleeceLiner 1 year ago
@FleeceLiner
Oh really? What if i just really like dumplings? what then?
lsean 1 year ago
At 2:20, the guy in yellow makes a good set up for the throw.
Very good timing!! :D
maekelon8 1 year ago
This art seems to lose something when it is used as a contest. There skills are reduced to simple sparring techniques.
Ronin6575 1 year ago
Yeah +1 for the other comments... whatever this bouncing around bullsheet is, it's not bagua
kfblss137 1 year ago 2
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kfblss137 1 year ago
this ain't Ba Gua,its more like jiujitsu or a dumb ninjutsu
dotacrewprinces 1 year ago 3
i agree
jaygmui 1 year ago
oh my good!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
samincaretta 1 year ago
this bagua seems to be some kind of chinese "jiu-jitsu"
hombrelobo78 1 year ago 3
Hmm... i know bagua zhan has some throws in it. It's because their style of martial arts used to train in the same park in beijing as the chinese wrestling style. But whether this is proper bagua zhang i dont know... maybe the guy didnt apply any other techniques other than the throws. He beat down the black guy good :)
sidstar89 2 years ago
this is not baguazhang!!!
kikitakahani 2 years ago 2
O de amarelo conhece Shuaijiao, pois sabe derrubar bem, e chuta muito rápido. E é só. O de preto é uma lástima. Não consegui ver Baguazhang na técnica deles.
WagnerMilch 2 years ago
the guy in dark uniform is embarassing...
pandascarpo 2 years ago
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i'm confident i could beat these guys, if you kick properly then trying to catch it will end up with a broken bone.
LocustsAreSwarming 2 years ago
shut the fuck up
1remzz1 2 years ago 3
@1remzz1 Your choice of words reflects your maturity level!
Ronin6575 1 year ago
This is more like judo vs street fighter!
crockrocks111 2 years ago
this not ba gua this be dumb bua
periklyots1986 2 years ago
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then bruce lee comes in and kills everyone with one kick.
skaterplease1221 2 years ago
The fight format is "kuoshu," which was developed in the 1920's and 30's by the Nanjing Central Martial Arts Institute. It's been refined since then. Taiwan is the main center of this fight format; most everyone else fights in the Sanshou/Sanda format developed in China.
Kuoshu used to be pretty hardcore - no pads but groin protection (under the clothes). Elbows and knees allowed. One of my teachers says that people were maimed/killed regularly in kuoshu tournaments. It's safer now.
wolfram49 2 years ago 3
The guy in blue is representing some of Korean bagua school but shows no bagua, nor real kung fu of any variety. Truly terrible performance regardless of the system. The commentators, as far as I can tell, only refer to him as "the Korean."
The guy in yellow from Taipei is using shuaijiao, aka "Chinese wrestling." His name is Hsieh Chi Shan(?). Probably a student of Chang Tung Sheng. The commentators say his shuaijiao is "pretty badass."
wolfram49 2 years ago 43
@wolfram49 Very informative thank you.
swampghost 2 years ago
@wolfram49 Both doing non-ba-gua, but wrestling or Taekwondo or Northern Gungfu kicks. Where's the bagua palm ? slipping gait ?
washingzoo1 1 year ago
@wolfram49 EXACTLY! Ba gua consists of circular movements!
SiddTheFrickingNayak 1 year ago
@wolfram49 Korean Bagua? I thought Bagua is Chinese?
alexdhamp 1 year ago
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wolfram49 1 year ago
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wolfram49 1 year ago
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@alexdhamp
When I wrote "Korean Bagua," I mean a Bagua school that was physically located in Korea. There was a very active Chinese martial arts scene in the 60's and 70's in Korea near the Chinese border and at least one Bagua school that can be verified. Google "Park Bok Nam" for information that school. Park now teaches in the US but originally taught in Korea.
wolfram49 1 year ago
@wolfram49 Got some new information:
There are older forms in Tae Kwon Do called Palgwe, which means "Eight Trigrams" and is the Korean translation of the words "Baqua." These forms were "official" from '67 - '71, then phased out by the Kukkikwon (the official international TKD governing body).
wolfram49 1 year ago
@wolfram49
Based on this info and Blue's techniques, I believe Blue is a TKD fighter, probably from an older school that still taught the Palgwe forms. Hence, he is a TKD "Palgwe" fighter, not a Baguazhang fighter.
The announcers and TV producers must have been confused because of the translation and also because Park Bok Nam was fielding Baguazhang teams at these tournaments during this time frame. The label on the right-hand side (for Blue) clearly reads "Bagua" in the parantheses.
wolfram49 1 year ago
Looks more like sanshou than bagua to me
EcoriaX 2 years ago
the guy in yellow is a one trick pony
grab the guy after a punch or kick and throw him down, no real punches or kicks of his own
the guy in dark uniform had absolutely nothing, looks like he has never actually sparred before
eteune 2 years ago 4
Better one trick that works than a dozen that don't!
But I agree with you about the guy in the dark uniform.
And absolutely NO baguazhang in sight.
mbutchin 2 years ago 23
@mbutchin the reason you see no ba gua is because he kept getting taken down by the judo/wrestling guy rofl
To0t 4 months ago
When the one trick works over and over again then there's no reason to use another one.
PissedFechtmeister 2 years ago 5
This is not baguazhang...
Happyanand69 2 years ago 2
this does not look like bagua to me, in my training i have never seen heavy handed sloppy techniques like the guy in blue no footwork circle walking or anything looks more like a bad tkd fight
temper1212 2 years ago
this ba gua?????
boboichi 2 years ago
The Korean in blue is a disgrace to Bagua Zhang, luckily those who know something about Bagua can see he know nothing at all.
prestonkong 2 years ago
Maybe I'm wrong but the guy in black seems to be using up his energy too quick?
obleix2000 2 years ago
Glad a lot of people realized this IS NOT Bagua... No mud-stepping, no circle walking, no circle shirk deflection, nothing. I was disppointed seeing this video. Except for the fact that the guy in the yellow is actually quite good at whatever random art he's using, LOL.
GrifterZed 2 years ago
dude in yellow looks like some mix of TKD and judo/ aikido
mrtrin 2 years ago
this looks more like a sanshou fight.
charkoly 2 years ago
That doesn't look at all like Ba Gua to me. I'm still only learning, but I've never seen my Sifu move like that while demonstrating Ba Gua
charade539 2 years ago
Same here. This doesn't look like BaGua, in Bagua you have to constantly move, all your kinetic energy comes from the circle-walking and palms and is released on impact still while moving.
AndyRaslan 2 years ago
Are they both Ba Gua Zhang, or just the yellow guy? Man that yellow guy is good.
ryanandtricia 2 years ago
The yellow guy definitely isn't doing bagua. Nor is the black.
The black guy does way too much bouncing, like western kickboxing. The yellow guy doesn't do much either aside from throw a few kicks and grab the black guy's legs.
Aheyne 2 years ago
its okay. too much grappling and jumping. bagua doesnt even have constant jumping
xXmellykinsXx 2 years ago
this is the 1st time i ever hear of this fighting style can anyone tell me what it is exactly??
YoungTurbo23 2 years ago
bagua can sometimes be seen as a tai-chi like martial art. Its somewhat fluid. If you've ever played tekken, a good deal of xiaoyu's moves are bagua zhang style.
d3m0nch1ld135 2 years ago
baqua is an internal martial art, related to tai chi and hsing yi. its is based around walking the circle (kind of like a tiger circling its prey) and being able to spin any attack off. imagine fighting a spinning pinball. hsing yi is the opposite, driving straight thru ur foe. both internal styles, both deadly if taught properly. they all take at least 8-10 years b4 u can demonstrate in public.
stevieb8006 2 years ago
Google it..
then youtube "Sun Zhi Jun"
Aheyne 2 years ago
You all seem to be missing one of the core concept. Martial Arts is war. It always has been and it always will be. You lack the warrior spirit and you loose. You can't go into a real fight and play nice.
GeneralArrow 2 years ago
the bagua fighter is in yellow
MrMJBMDK 2 years ago
the guy in the yellow is more street fighting
badboykoji 2 years ago
agreed u can c how his stance and bounce is,also that first grab was complete brute
RFL0ki 2 years ago
Some people are claiming that this is the real deal. Tell me; did Dong Hai Chuan also fight like this? Yin fu? I am sure they aren't famous for this $hit.
If Dong Hai Chuan fought like this, then I am sorry to say that modern kickboxers would have beaten him everytime.
PS- Note that I am not against Kung Fu, but those who consider this to be the representation of it.
himalayanspirit 2 years ago
This is supposed to be professional Sanda match (full contact + no protection). But both fighters aren't too professional though. Besides, many refused to make use of own clan technique when comes to Sanda switched to kickboxing+grappling
taekarkung 2 years ago
I agree 100% I would only say that in the end you have to just do the best you can and try to win. Representing style is not easy if it's mentally awkward for you.
jehovatican 2 years ago
It seems that some random 80 kg street fighter can destroy both of them together. There's no use for them to waste their time only to be able to fight like this.
Seriously, a Muay Thai kick would be too difficult for them to withstand. Simply wearing fancy clothes and making flowery stance doesn't make anyone fight better. These guys must wake up to reality.
himalayanspirit 2 years ago
If Muay Thai slap kick from serious practitioners like Thai fighters, yes it's deadly blow. For other race & those who never thicken their feet with wood+banana tree, u'll just need to bend out ur elbow and wait for his feet to hit ur elbow. He'll be down immediately
taekarkung 2 years ago
Hmm. I was hopping to see some Bau Gua defensive take downs but the guy in black, who it looks like is the Bau Gua fighter based on the comments, is just way to overeager. The guy in yellow is way too good for the guy in black to press the fight like he is.
Wolfwood7149 2 years ago
Yeah, they're at ShiDa - a couple of blocks from my house. Also, I believe the guy in yellow has a bit of a shuai jiao background, which is why he is able to pull off those crazy throws and takedowns.....
TheHerm18 2 years ago
It's funny how people don't understand anything... Real chinese martial artist know that you must unlearn the form at the highest level. Even so, all martial arts look the same in real fight, considering it's a complete discipline, unlike aikido or judo where people don't know how to punch or kick. You have to pay attention to very little details to see style.
Here, all the takedowns are done using circular steps, bagua steps. But it's too subtile for most people to see it.
KelGhu 2 years ago
All martial art looks the same in real fight because most will opt for kickboxing+grappling and forgo their own martial art technique. Sanda is best example including this vid. Not much Bagua moves
taekarkung 2 years ago
One should know that one's whole body is the weapon. Whatever mouvement should just be natural mouvement and not from any style. Each of us has our own style, the form is just a way to find our own spirit. For ex, all the people focusing on grappling will all almost look the same, no matter the style. Just like the way each of us walks.
At the highest level, bagua should not be bagua anymore. People are so narrow minded about style.. Everything should alway be visible to people. They're wrong...
KelGhu 2 years ago
Pure certain martial art clan extremists will try to make every move according to their arts. Some really do, so when they fight, u could immediately tell what fist are they using. Some would forgo own art and go for kickboxing
taekarkung 2 years ago
exactly, because punching is punching and kicking is kicking. Grappling is grappling as well with the goal being to dominate your opponent. I agree with your other comment of not to grapple in self defense because of what you said and also your enemy could have a weapon.
jacko821 2 years ago
This was outcome from group research on several incidents involving martial artists ecountering gangsters and robbers. Trying to find out how did these martial artists fell and some even got killed. Their mistakes: Some fought like no-contact sparring, didn't know how to use martial art in reality or got into grappling and ended being slashed/bashed by accomplice.
taekarkung 2 years ago
*Correction* All POOR martial artists look the same in a fight. If you know what you're really doing, your body should drip of gongfu in a confrontation.
Saying someone is a bagua fighter, yet they remain rooted in place while fighting, obviously demonstrates that something is not carrying over.
Aheyne 2 years ago
Aheyne, I understand part of your remarks but not all. all POOR martial aritsts means those who are poorly trained look the same in a fight like blur thinking of what to do next, hesitate?
taekarkung 2 years ago
Hi Taekarkung, What I mean is that in the US it's very common to see a "martial artist", who has been studying for several years, go spar with someone and simply revert to western boxing. Either that or kickboxing. It will bear no resemblance to whatever art they were studying. This is generally true of kung fu, taekwondo, kenpo, etc.
I mean they don't fight like they train, since they don't train to fight. They separate training from combat
Aheyne 2 years ago
Hi Aheyne, in fact not just Americans, others too don't really fight using the martial art they trained just learned the patterns. I'm trying to unlock the patterns move and try it on reality, some works. See whether I could rejoin kungfu class by next month to test it further with Sanda fighters. How bout u?
taekarkung 2 years ago
I agree -- I think it's simply a result of training not carrying over into sparring.
Hopefully in time and with conscientious practice there will be a strong influence on your fighting style. Personally I'm not there yet -- and seeing as I just began a new martial art (Bagua), it won't happen for some time.
But it still strikes me as funny seeing people who study a specific art, then just box when they spar... their art devolves into the same few strikes that everyone else uses.
Aheyne 2 years ago
Thanks Aheyne! Most are still used to streetfight (basic punches & kicks). So, when they got themselves into sudden ambush, 1st thing that appears on their mind would be something that they are used to - streetfight that exchanges blows :-D
taekarkung 2 years ago
As I stated in my above comment Martial Arts is not friendly, you use what you can. That and you need to watch some more MMA :) fyi I take Bagua as well.
GeneralArrow 2 years ago
I find it ironic that in one sentence you talk about war (fighting for survival), and then me needing to watch more MMA.
MMA is all sport. There is nothing warlike about it.
Aheyne 2 years ago
......Its a sport sure, but the core concept is the same.
GeneralArrow 2 years ago
See, it's shit like this that makes Chinese martial arts fighters look second-rate. If this is a good example of real Bagua usage, or indicative of Chinese martial arts in general, then I give up. PATHETIC.
frappfreak 2 years ago
patetics
PJ2000nt 2 years ago
that doesnt look like bagua:S
kathrynrain 2 years ago
This really doesn't look like Bagua at all.
IndecisivePenguin 2 years ago
The fighters are probably Bagua Fist practitioners but when comes to Sanda (Freestyle Sparring) most Chinese martial artists will go for Chinese Kickboxing, grappling & Muay Thai.
taekarkung 2 years ago
I study MMA and submission wrestling and must admit that I really enjoyed watching the dude in the yellow scoring takedown after takedown, especially the very explosive single leg/high crotch at 0:25. He must have been a pretty strong dude to pull it off after bending so much at the waist.I enjoyed this.
Wiegieboard 2 years ago
dude in the black looked like he didnt even know any moves
joshdaugherty1111 2 years ago
I don't know, the spinning take downs are a trademark move in Ba gua...
plumeragent 2 years ago
this is judo :S
dirint 2 years ago
non ci sono radici flessibili. L'albero ha imparato ad inchinarsi per non staccarsi da terra. non c'è efficacia nel combattimento e la box in'esistente
ecertu 2 years ago
yeah i dont think this is ba gua ether
flufinuf 2 years ago
The Chinese on the screen labels the guy in black something about "bagua." The other guy is labeled something about "Northern City."
TheoMurpse 2 years ago
This is a fight that takes place either at ShiDa or TaiDa, the two big universities in Taipei. I think ShiDa, but I'm not sure
TheHerm18 2 years ago
this looks like wrestling for some reason
ZerkMode 2 years ago
is there a possibility to have a fight with a baa gua fighter in germany near cologne, i´ve done the Avci Wing Tsung since 1996 and would like to check how it is working in battle with an other skilled fighter of a style like baa gua seems to be after what i´ve seen , this is no challenge i just want to improve my knowing in martial arts ...have a nice time and greets from cologne
GonG108 2 years ago
Guy in black keeps reverting to freestyle and looks more like jeet kune do to me . The guy in yellow is obviously skilled in chinese wrestling and is letting the guy in black bring the fight to him
kinghead1 3 years ago
Some styles of bagua emphasize a lot of chin na, or basically standup grappling. That's the case with the yellow guy.
elenchus 2 years ago
the bagua guy doesnt use any bagua principles or skills to fight
stupidkid915 3 years ago
The guy in black is a bagua stylist???? It looks more like REALLY BAD longfist!!!
yattaok 3 years ago
That idiot in black is not maintaining his form at all whatsoever. What a fool. What did he spend his time training for, then? He shouldn't be so bouncy and he doesn't even utilize the initial stance.
I'm surprised they're allowing him to continue fighting like that. He's practically insulting his sensei with every step, every hasty move.
He starts off with kicks? IDIOT! You should get your form right, and circle your opponent a little. Get the trigram in your mind first.
He's an embarrassmen
holypanl 3 years ago
ok first of all attacks to bak fo the body r illegal so even if u circle around em u wont be lalowed to hit em n second there is no sensei in baguar sensei is japanese n applies ot japanese martial arts chinese use the word sifu
SoundwaveSuperior373 3 years ago
Um...Bagua itself utilizes a whole lot of back/blindspot attacks. Any tournament that disallows blindspot attacks really doesn't know what it's about.
A lot of the moves in Bagua open your opponent's defences, then spin around to his back. This tourney is crap.
And...of course I knew that it was 'sifu'. What do you take me for? If it were me there, I would have taken my time, and properly done my forms.
holypanl 3 years ago
Hey, im new to martial arts and self defense. Im planing on taking ba gua as a form of exercise and practice.
You seem experienced, so I was wondering if you would recommend it first?
Blovinjack 3 years ago
Well, I'll be honest with you, and not try to promote my fav style:
In general, I love internal martial arts. The main three 'king-ka's' are Bagua, Taichi and Xingyi. I like both Taiji and Bagua. I WOULD recommend Bagua, definitely, but you should read up on Taiji too; it would be wrong for me to say: YES!! Do Bagua, cos it t3h pwn h4x0r!!
First read up on wikipedia and see which style you like best out of internal arts, then go for it.
Generally, soft arts try not to meet opponents' force
holypanl 3 years ago
with an opposing force, e.g. a block, but with a 'pushing' or 'sticking' technique. They do not attempt to use kicks and punches to attack, but seek to either wait for your opponents' force (taiji) and use it against him, or like Bagua, they combine 'soft' and 'hard' techniques seamlessly, so you can either wait, and push, or attack first.
Bagua is a mix of soft and hard. Tajiji is primarily soft. But for smaller people they both work perfect.
I recommend you read up first then decide yourself
holypanl 3 years ago
what if you are a small person but prefer aggesive and hard attacks? what sytle is good then?
aszeryudiko 3 years ago
Haha...I'm afrai that outside Internal Martial atrs, my area of confidence in my knowledge ends; ^_^; LOL. Sorry, but I don't know much about external hard styles. My apologies.
There are some really good martial arts forums on the internet, though: I recommend yoy go check one of them out. They can definitely help you. :)
holypanl 3 years ago
ok, thanks anyway for trying :P
aszeryudiko 3 years ago
Leopard fist might be something for you, or you could do tiger, catlike but massive power. Id say learn Five Animals since they all complete each other and are both soft and hard. You should practice for your overall health and vitality so both hard and soft are necerssary. Sifu said that its foolish to leave out the internal bit just because you want to train hard, they benefit from each other.
Sanningsministeriet 3 years ago
Xing Yi Quan
WarriorOfTheBlackSun 2 years ago
Always a good idea to start with something like Wing Chun, even if it doesn't work for you personally, it will automatically help you develop the reflexes and it's always something good to fall back on because it's solid...
steveecker 3 years ago
cool, thanks guys :P id really like to try it out martial arts again, it was fun when i did it although i never really old enough to get into it.
aszeryudiko 3 years ago
this is what happens when you nev er spar. all the stuff you learn in forms goes out the window. had this guy ever sparred he may not have been pwned
gunfighter964 3 years ago
well i mean that 3:25 - 3:33 is absolutely ridiculous.......the one in the black kimono is a total jerk.... if i was the yellow guy id kick his bum that hard that he´ll need the help of his children to wipe his ass...cuz his asshole would be somewhere at his back torn open and pressed deep inside so he´ll be pretty fucked...
TimesHaveChanneled 3 years ago
kahahahahahah "kimono"?!! you mean gi.
Reizo12 3 years ago
Dude!This is so wrong!In Ba Gua,Ur suppose to move around in Circles and counter your opponent's attack,not rushing to your opponent like some crazy bull just attacking all the way
mameemoo4 3 years ago
yellow punished
IscarioteJud 3 years ago
4.19 lmao now thats a take down
zuluboogieno1 3 years ago
bit sloppy from the bagua guy, he needs more practice, hes waaay to eager, keeps over commiting himself and clearly hes twitchy and on edge. maybe not used to keepin his cool under pressure. only 1 solution more fight training.lol
zuluboogieno1 3 years ago
The person in blue is not using Bagua at all. Very low level of skill in Bagua displayed. Bagua has kicks, but he is not using the palms to set them up properly. Nor is he using the circle walking effectively at the point of attack. The person in yellow is demonstrating effective Chinese Shuaijiao (wrestling). However, Bagua has Shuaijiao as well from Cheng Tinghua, but the person in blue was unfortunately not trained in this aspect.
huachenshan 3 years ago 3
This was bagua... Regardless of the terrible skill. Theres no sense in defending it. Its not you so you shouldnt care.
Smific 3 years ago
i do ba gua and this definetliy is not it (i also so tai-chi qwuan
ttyzon123 3 years ago