A Powerful Testimony of the Book of Mormon by Elder Jeffrey R. Holland

[magnus56j]

Joseph Smith loved other Christians so much he claimed all of their creeds are an abomination and their professors are all corrupt. Nice guy.

[huntermanPaul]

Serious question here. The whitnesses who observed Joseph Smith translating the BOM claim that God would not reveal the next character of the translation until he had it right and his scribe had it right. If that is true, why are there almost 4000 changes in the BOM nor from the 1830 edition? Did Joseph Smith get it wrong or did truth change?

[awesomenator6]

@huntermanPaul The book of mormon has never changed, however chapter summaries were added in the 1920s, then rewritten by apostle Bruce R. McConkie in 1981 because that's when God revealed to the prophet that all worthy black males could hold the priesthood. Before then there were some racial headings dealing with black people vs white people and those were removed.

[GaryKColeman]

@huntermanPaul

Which witnesses made that claim? Can you provide any documentation to support your statement?

[huntermanPaul]

@GaryKColeman which claim i am sorry?

[GaryKColeman]

@huntermanPaul

No, I'm sorry. I thought you would review the comment that my questions referred to.

"The whitnesses who observed Joseph Smith translating the BOM claim that God would not reveal the next character..etc...." Do you know which one now?

The questions are: Which witnesses made that claim? Can you provide any documentation to support your statement?

[huntermanPaul]

@GaryKColeman One of Smith's "Scribes" said, "By aid of the Seer Stone, sentences would appear and were read by the Prophet and written by Martin, and when finished he would say 'written;' and if correctly written, the sentence would disappear and another appear in its place; but if not written correctly it remained until corrected, so that the translation was just as it was engraven on the plates, precisely in the language then used"

[huntermanPaul]

@GaryKColeman One of the, "Whitnesses" David Whittmer said, ""I will now give you a description of the manner in which the Book of Mormon was translated. Joseph Smith would put the seer stone into a hat, and put his face in the hat, drawing it closely around his face to exclude the light; and in the darkness the spiritual light would shine. A piece of something resembling parchment would appear, and under it was the interpretation in English.

[huntermanPaul]

@huntermanPaul Brother Joseph would read off the English to Oliver Cowdery, who was his principal scribe, and when it was written down and repeated to brother Joseph to see if it was correct, then it would disappear, and another character with the interpretation would appear. Thus the Book of Mormon was translated by the gift and power of God, and not by any power of man."

[huntermanPaul]

@huntermanPaul These and other claims about the validity of the translation process can be found in the inside of the cover of a BOM. I wonder if that is trutl how it was translated, why are there nearly 400 changes between the 1830 ed and the modern bom?

[GaryKColeman]

@huntermanPaul

The witnesses could not see what Joseph saw. That the words would not go away until copied correctly is something that came up many years later. David Whitmer told Eri Mullin in 1874. In 1881, Edward Stevenson quoted Martin Harris.

For more information about the errors, go to fairlds.org, click on Topical Guide, click on Book of Mormon, then click on Translation Process. There are several articles about it. You can draw your own conclusion.

[miniman4666]

Well that was a nice conversation...

[elfhammer]

What a moron!

[lilbeaveymac]

Wheres my Billy Graham????

[c3147897]

everybodies an expert ay. this mormon philosophy is the only one ive found that staes something along the lines of:

"dont believe me, dont take my word for it.. ask god"

while looking into churches, im yet to hear anyone else tell me that. the ussual course of action goes along the lines of:

im so so so so so smart, listen to me because im more intelligent than god himself and know his word better than him because ive read the bible a few times. lol. use some logic people

[wikiburp]

How do you know Joseph manipulated women for sex?Where is your evidence?You're a fraud.How can you make such definitive statements about a man who lived almost 200 years ago?We can only rely on testimonies of witness', an it's about weighing them up.Oliver Cowdery, who knew him well,left the church claiming Joseph was a fallen prophet as he thought Joseph was sleeping around.But joined the church 10 years later admitting he was wrong about his judgements. Bad comparison between Hubbard & Smith

[lilbeaveymac]

@wikiburp utlm.org

[NavajoJoe66]

Hate to tell you guys, but Joseph Smith wrote the Book of Mormon. It's so obvious.

[LDStothecore]

@NavajoJoe66 Nope. He translated it by the power of God.

[NavajoJoe66]

@LDStothecore If he translated it by the power of God, then why does God have such terrible grammar and make so many mistakes in the text?

Funny how, in the portions of the BoM which quote the King James version of the Bible, God makes the same translation errors as the King James translators. Whoops! Guess God isn't as all-knowing as you thought, huh? LOL

Sorry, but Joseph Smith wrote the Book of Mormon. The Book of Abraham only proves that he was pulling a fast one on his followers.

[NavajoJoe66]

@LDStothecore And why did God have Joseph Smith "translate" the text into 17th century English, when Joseph Smith lived in the 19th century and it would've made more sense to "translate" it into English as it was currently spoken?

And what about all those embarrassing anachronisms in the BoM? And the fact that every LDS prophet from Joseph Smith to Hinckley has claimed that Native Americans come from Israel, when DNA proves they came from Asia?

How can you not see through it? It's so obvious.

[wikiburp]

@NavajoJoe66 Sounds like you've read every anti-mormon book you can. I'm wondering if you've ever read the Book of Mormon, desiring to know if it is what Joseph Smith said it is. Just try reading it, applying the principles, and you will only be led to one conclusion: Greater faith in Jesus Christ. And you going to deny His teachings too? Because that's a whole other argument. Ask yourself this. Were there any trying to defame Jesus in His ministry with lies about him? You argument is the same

[NavajoJoe66]

@wikiburp Yes, I have read the Book of Mormon many times. And yes, I was once as deluded as you. All you have to do is think critically about this stuff and you'll realize how silly it all is. Ditto for the Bible.

How dare you accuse me of lying? Nothing I've said is untrue. Joseph Smith made the same errors in the Book of Mormon that the King James translators made in their 1611 version. This is evidence plain and clear that Joseph Smith plagiarized the King James Version of the Bible. Sorry.

[wikiburp]

@NavajoJoe66 Did I accuse you of lying? I think I suggested that there were many lies about Joseph Smith, like there were lies about Jesus Christ. People hated Joseph Smith,unjustifiably.Your evidence is bias.Everything you are saying is supported by anti-Mormons,because you're one.

So,an unlearned farm boy, made up the story of a whole civilization that pretty much destroyed itself, hundreds of new names, ancient coinage, and stories that all lead to one belief in Jesus Christ? Clever kid!

[NavajoJoe66]

@wikiburp FYI, Smith was 24 years old when he wrote the BOM. Not exactly a "boy." And there is nothing remarkable about the BOM.. except how remarkably bad it is. It is a false history of the Native Americans and you people should be ashamed for perpetuating such an obvious hoax.

[wikiburp]

@NavajoJoe66 "Obvious hoax"? Didn't you hear the words of Elder Holland. There may have been attempts to defame the Book of Mormon, and Joseph Smith's testimony, but Elder Holland regards them has "frankly pathetic". Not sure if I can be bothered going through all your reasons why you think the Book of Mormon is false. I've heard it all before. I've read the book. I heeded it's teachings. The teachings increased my faith in Jesus Christ. They can for you too. It's not just a story book.

[NavajoJoe66]

@wikiburp Well I regard Jeffrey Holland's claim as "frankly" pathetic. There is no evidence supporting the claim that the Book of Mormon is what it CLAIMS to be. In fact, all the evidence points to it being a 19th century hoax -- the product of Joseph Smith's imagination. It is painfully obvious. If you haven't looked at the overwhelming evidence against it, then you have no one to blame but yourself.

[wikiburp]

@NavajoJoe66 Where are you finding your evidences? If you only read anti-Mormon literature & websites, what would you expect to find? From the moment the 14 year old boy Joseph said he saw God the Father and the resurrected Jesus Christ, people have hated, lied and molest Joseph and his name. Read his own words and of those who knew him best, & you'll find his testimony pure as is the doctrine he preached. I have studied his life for the past 15 years, and find no worthy evidence against Joseph

[NavajoJoe66]

@wikiburp Well, people tend to not like con men and religious hucksters very much. Especially when they use religion to manipulate women for sex, which is what Joseph Smith did.

But you'd never consider that possibility, because you're a true believer. Just like Scientologists would never consider the possibility that L. Ron Hubbard was a fraud, neither will you consider the possibility that Smith was a huckster like so many other 19th century religious frauds.

[englishwithsteve]

Emotion is what it is folks. 

[Pippin9229]

@englishwithsteve What is emotion to you englishwithsteve.? You may show emotion to some things and to other not. Here it is very evident Holland is showing emotion in bearing testimony. Some would say he is bearing testimony of truth..some would say sham...but don't take "my" word for it....take Gods... ;)

[stanyannie]

His knowledge and passion ignite my confirmation that the Book of Mormon is true! The work of the Lord. The word of God.

[omiolo2]

"recorded by men on earth and angels in heaven"

It has definitely been recorded by men on earth!

[2morrowman]

Amen