Morning Joe Crew: "Name a Successful Unionized Company!"

[DanMonDab]

Labor unions are nothing but the legalization of organized crime.

[sketchydc]

Microsoft has several unions.

[elsquibbs]

Labor unions are nothing but a pack of extortionists masquerading as victims.

[eunicron]

Well, it certainly has become fashionable to be anti-labor lately, even among working class people.

Obviously few union haters were around to witness the standard of living and working conditions that led to the organization of labor in the first place.

Yes, some people abuse it, as with any system, but I have real difficulty understanding why middle class people object to other working people trying to earn a living wage and provide for their families.

[phippsed]

@eunicron

when unions negotiate for higher wages where do you think the money comes from? It doesn't come from the tooth fairy or the Easter bunny. It comes from consumers. Essentially the union transfers money from non-union members to union members. And of course they skim a little bit of the top. Some union bosses make 400K plus. Being against this little operation does not make you anti-labor. Living standards have rose to do improved technology, not labor unions.

[shikagonga]

it depends on what your definition of a 'successful company' is. that cunt sorkin probably championed those same banks that raked in billions not so long ago, only for them to go cap in hand for a bailout.

union membership will grow because workers are fed up with the unequal distribution of profits, and on the face of it, these ceo's are hardly doing anything specialised

[greyflcn]

re: theyugo

If corporations are formed to create collective bargaining power.

What's so wrong about labor unions having collective bargaining power?

Why would collective bargaining be good for one side, and bad for the other?

[UniversalMeme]

Labor unions are bad because they drive up costs for consumers. Cost rises make businesses go overseas. Americans lose jobs because of unions.

Corporations try to run businesses effeciently and reduce costs for consumers. Reduced costs let consumers buy more and you get a diversified economy where jobs are cre ated in many sectors. American's standard of living rises because of corporations.

Corporations are good. Unions are bad.

Unionization is bad for America.

[MrJonisaurus]

@UniversalMeme That'S why Germany, a mega unionised country, much more than the US, is doing so bad. Especially bad in exporting stuff.

Think again. It's not the unions at fault.

[crazyjedimindtrick]

Are they drinking Starbucks?

[pizzintea]

They are drinking starbucks, they have a deal now with starbucks. You can easily find the video now where they proclaim their joy that starbucks now endorses their show.

[snappa52]

Bullshit Joe. Meijer in michigan does great business and they are unionized. GM was successful for almost 100 years until globalization hit.

[redmustang03]

UPS is a great example of a Unionized company whose doing well. These conseratives are going to get a rude rude awakening come 2010 if the economy hopefully by that time is recovering. They can say what they want but their words, voting record, and many other factors are going to come back to haunt them and we all knew it when the economy really started to go south in September. When that happened, I knew that Obama was going to win and the GOP was going to get killed in the 2008 election.

[marniespeaks]

They hate the American worker

[CarryANation2]

NBC is a successful unionized company. Idiots.

[study1]

WTF is going on with MSNBC lately? Did old fat ass Murdoch buy them & change their name to Faux News 2?

[greyflcn]

UPS. Kroger. All six major Hollywood. studios. AT&T. Verizon. Anheuser Busch

Exxon. NFL. MLB. NBA. NHL. Boeing. GE. Kraft Foods. General Mills. General Dynamics. Harley-Davidson. Dow Chemical. Lockheed Martin. Merck. News Corp. Kellogg's. Hershey's. Pepsico. The list goes on...

[Dysnomia303]

Brought to you by Starbucks.

[EnhancementSmoker]

successfull for who Joe?

[countess1900]

Unions were formed to improve working conditions and treatment of American citizens (workers) who were once subjected to 10 hr work days, unsafe (often downright hazardous) working conditions, unfair hiring/firing and the list goes on. As usual the media is pointing the blame back at the average joe as the problem when in fact it was the Union and corporate heads (not to mention the slew of lawyers).

Ask yourself why have unions become a bad thing?

[DoctorMeh]

I can name several monopoly or too-big-to-fail companies that don't have unions or checks of any kind.

Anyone able to look back and see what that's got us or have we forgotten already?

[abxbx]

The Union/socialized aspect DOES NOT matter to the success of the company. If your workforce consists of a bunch of apathetic, semi-literate drug users who spend their paychecks on meth, weed, and beer - don't be surprised when product quality is low.

In high school in much of the first world (namely UK, Germany, South Korea, and Japan), their mathematics and science education = our university system for engineers. No joke. The solution is to have a more moral, skilled, and educated workforce.

[abxbx]

Successful unionized companies? How about all those Japanese ones in their Japanese plants. (Honda, Toyota, etc.)

All the German automakers in Germany.

And their assembly line guys who've been there 15-20 years pull 60-80K USD a year, and they have socialized medical care on top of it.

"We need GM to be more like Toyota!" All these conservatives say... you mean... having a company-union that works, gov't subsidies and socialized medicine so the company doesn't have to pay for it?

[silvertongue]

I don't think toyota is unionized, I could be wrong though

[LifeinaRaindrop]

While they blame the unions, you don't hear anything about major construction corporations (highly unionized) going under... nor rotor rooter and its plumbers, or much of anything else taking place. It merely boils down to ignorance on behalf of the right.

[baseballnolie34]

Please tell me why anyone would take what Jim Cramer says seriously after his record over the past 4 years.

[freesk8]

Unions are a huge obstacle to:

innovation, low cost production, efficiency, quality, inventory costs, merit pay, affordable products and in the long-run, employment.

The presence of a union is a symptom of poor management. It is a lose-lose situation for the worker, the boss, the customer and the stockholder.

Unions work best when there is no competition. Then the inefficiency and low quality do not cause the destruction of the company. This is why unions are strong in the government sector.

[coolal19]

How about the NBA? NFL? MBL?

Seems like the most successful unions have millionaire members.

[thermalfreek]

UPS just to start.

[Gamingtrevor]

DHL to follow.

[wtfoof]

Oil worker unions Oil,( CAWU), coal and Gas (UMWA), health care worker Union

[wtfoof]

That means BP, Shell, Exxon, Conaco-philps, Union pacific, most of the hospital across the nation, The rucking companies (the teamsters)

[cagedtigersteve]

GE, UPS

[400hurdle]

ge is a fail. GE over the past 10 years is down over 50% But at least UPS is only slightly negative over that time. Hey, do u know what % of the employees there are in the union at those two places? There might be some truth to the more unionized a company the less successful.

[TedinLasVegas]

Unions drove US steel industry into the dirt and now they're doing the same thing to the US car companies.

Unions are the idiots who kill the goose laying golden eggs.

[CynicalSavior]

Aren't you part of the internet Troll union though Ted?

Seeing how you comment on these videos all day long, I can only assume that this is your job.

How are the benefits? Do you get dental?

[gisforgary]

ted you friggin moron. a friend of mine has a family that is quite wealthy and dad ran a steel company that he passed on to his kid. and dad was a happy pro-union boss as is his son.

american corporatism is stupid and top heavy. it costs a lot less to hire workers than attorneys -- yet they always go for the attorneys instead. its not the unions fault gm put out crap nobody wanted to buy. crawl back under your bridge mr ted.

[TedinLasVegas]

Then your friends dad is a moron who seeks his own, and his company's, destruction.

Unions come into being when management has failed to protect their greatest asset, their peope. The death of a company comes into being after 5-6 generations of that union.

[sugarpuddin88]

Mein Fuhrer Obama, announced plans to start a seven million man personal army or Brown Shirt Gestapo

Meanwhile the Veterans Disarmament Bill was passed removing gun ownership from many Vets

Today's story: Government Readies Youth Corps To Take On Vets

Sieg Heil Mein Fuhrer!

[sugarpuddin88]

Obama who was elected to bring our troops home spontaneously reneged on all his promises upon election

His masters paid 2 billion to get him elected; now he announced plans to start a seven million man personal army or Brown Shirt Gestapo

Meanwhile the Veterans Disarmament Bill was passed removing gun ownership from many Vets

Obama has just been sued over Napoleon-tino's latest Law Enforcement mandate to imprison anyone that objects to Obama's plans

[oldtownkid]

Dude, seriously, i normaly ignore comments like yours but I kinda felt sorry for you, bro. I think you should talk to a pastor or some kind of counselor, it doesn't have to be a shrink, but talk to someone before you hurt yourself or hurt someone.... i'm serious, think about it dude.

[sugarpuddin88]

old

If you have the brain power, and can draw yourself away from your computer games long enough, why don't you attempt to debate me here?

Why don't you give it a try: Explain the merit of your claim

Try it: See if you can rub together a couple brain cells to create a spark of dialog

[gisforgary]

take off that little tin foil hat lil sugarpuddin. the only thing brown is your nose cause rush limbaugh it too fat to reach around and wipe good.

the veteran's disarament bill was to take guns from wackaloons like you. if you were sane you could keep your guns but you my friend are wacked.

napolitano is concerned about right wing terrorists -- like the abortion doctor murderer and lying hatemongers like you.

[sugarpuddin88]

Why are you afraid of the truth?

Lee Harvey Oswalds girlfriend, Judyth Baker, tells us why:

She had to give up her Christian religion in order to make sense that horrible things are "allowed" to happen on earth!

To believe that JFK & 911 was an inside job forces giving up an immature grip on religion. Sheeple are too weak to let go of their childish religions that protect them from the boogie men in the night!

Thus, religion is used by the elites as a measure of Social Control!

[CarryANation2]

"religion is used by the elites as a measure of Social Control! "

Religion is just as often used by the masses as defense against the elites.

[TiTSxxMcGEE]

UPS

[bleunt]

Umm, Volvo. IKEA.

[TedinLasVegas]

Sure, the solicialist Sweden, with companies owned by the government.

Same thing.

[gisforgary]

sweden isn't socialist you dimwitted dittohead. geez you are a moron. go wag your head while you listen to rush. your stupidity is a national embarassment. you are proof that the american education system needs serious reform.

[bleunt]

Yep. Plenty of success unionized companies here. Owned by government or not. I actually think it's the law to be unionized.

[rakrobn]

Yeah, dumbass, is Volvo going bankrupt? No. So what does "socialist Sweden" have anything to do with it. They make high quality cars.

[TedinLasVegas]

I did a quick, Yahoo-news search for "Volvo" and the top 2 stories are that Volvo (a subsidiary of Ford) had to get loans from the EU and the second story is that Volvo is laying off workers.

In fact, I seem to remember that about 10 years ago, Ford rescued Volvo from disappearing altogether.

[mahyarmohaghegh]

wow what a a bunch of idiots

[LibertyPen]

The fact is that wages are a cost of production. When the cost of production becomes greater than the value of that which is produced, a business must operate at a loss. The UAW is the latest example, but unions have a long history of dragging companies down from sustainability. If companies are not allowed to go bankrupt and sell their assets to new owners with better ideas, taxpayers become burdened with unending subsidies.

[DeletedDelusion]

No wages = almost no cost of production!

I think you should work for free, or even better, pay your boss for giving your life a purpose. :p

[LibertyPen]

Not almost. No wages = no production. The optimum amount for wages is that amount that attracts a sufficient numbers of workers with the necessary skill needed to produce a profitable product or service. The way to get higher wages to increase one's skills, not hire thugs. Few favor collusion among businesses, why among labor?

[Frets200]

All companies pay wages for goods and services. It's part of doing buisness. The wage earner is not at fault for the fall of the auto industry. The corporate exectutives are. Corporate execs need to man up to the fact that they and not the lavorere are failing at there jobs. Union Automobile companies have recorded record gains in the past. The union was part of the equation then and I might add recieving higher benefits then they currently are.

[route99]

If were going to make a point about sustainability, shouldnt that start with the product thats being made? Detroits only in trouble because they spent years with their heads in the sand while the rest of the automakers anticipated and responded to the markets demands. GMs response to the demand for fuel efficiency was Hummers and huge GMC trucks. Anyone who doesnt see a problem with that is refusing to see beyond their personal biases.

[LibertyPen]

GM was a failing enterprise and should have been allowed to go bankrupt. The market will pick winners and losers based on who meets their demand. Politicians who put our country trillions in debt are a poor substitute for even the most incompetent corporate executive. The free market is about those who seek rewards taking risks. It is not about corporate rewards/taxpayer risk.

[route99]

Times must be rough when we have to turn to the Wall Street chattering class to get opinions about successful companies. Keep on gambling fellas, because the stock market is nothing but a glorified lottery these days.

It's so simple! Obviously the economic collapse is due to that middle class family getting health benefits and a pension NOT the fact that scum corporate uppers tanked their companies and still walked away with billions.

Unions built America. Unbridled capitalism is our doom!

[wervasdeferens]

How about my former company United Parcel Service? Big Brown and the Teamsters put me and my kids through College. They also paid me well enough so that I was able to save money and start my own business.

[checkurself]

If the police, firefighters, government employees, etc can unionize, why is it so hard to let others unionize? It seems employers don't want to be forced to provide better working conditions, better salaries and benefits. Look at Wal-Mart...getting their employees to sign on to welfare and other government programs rather than paying their workers better. I rather employers pay for that then having me pay for it through taxes.

[checkurself]

ILWU, NHL, NFL, NBA, LAPPL , UFLAC, California Nurses Association...oops did you say to name one?

[BforBryan]

This is what's fucking wrong with America, the top X% do everything to keep bottom X% down there.

All startet with anti-communism / the 21th century phrase = socialism

-Uninformed Foreigner:)

[lmn8bush]

Why isn't joe scarborough on fox snooze where he belongs ? And I would like to know more information about the death of his secretary .

[JJarv213]

the NFL

now shut the hell up

[or97035]

kudos

[thewise80]

Banks don't have unions and they failed...so what was their point?

[dogstar7]

How about the Airline Industry

and Marine Transportation:

The Heroes of Flight 1549

155 people saved by Union Workers

The US Airways Crew

and NY/NJ Ferry Crews

All Union

[tj5555555]

uaw=commie

[jaimymoore]

Uh, those guys behind the cameras? All the staff around you?

Those are union guys, Joe. You work with them every day.

Moron.

[Frets200]

Everybody deserves good value for product including employees. Competence leads to better products and better production value. The unions are the ones that set higher standards for quality.

If you want to buy a piece of junk then by from a non union shop that doesn't care what they release on the market. Like the fisher-price pay employees with a bowl of rice and a gun pointed to thier head. And don't whine when you lose your job because you shipped them all overseas

[Frets200]

Non-union shops are aware of the competition for hiring qualified workers as a result they try to compensate close to what union shops pay.

Honda and Toyota would not be paying thier employees at the rates they do if there were no union jobs available for competition.

I worked at a non-union shop right next store to a union shop. The competion for competent employees led the buisness owners to offer more then they would have otherwise.

.

[Frets200]

Unions built the middl class, They raised the standards for all americans.

Before the Unions there was no 8 hour day or 40 hour work week.

Before unions if someone was hurt on the job as a product They were out twice.

Out of work with no compenation and no medical If you lost an arm in a manufacturing job because of poor saftey you would have to pick up the medical.

The ecomony works by selling goods and services. It doesn't work if no one has any money to buy anything.

[freesoul2005]

I work for a software industry, where there is no concept of Unions, and I am doing fine. My salary is good, bonuses r good. If my company does not care of me, I will leave it for some other. That freedom to leave my job, keeps my company on the edge. I dont want any uinion in my industry

[modustype]

#1 This is a loaded question. Especially, that is, because the guests on this show measure success of a company only one way: return on capital investment.

#2 However, there are many successful companies and industries that are closed shops. Two examples of heavily unionized yet still profitable industries: radio stations and other broadcasters, and Hollywood.

#3 Many if not most of these big manufacturers being discussed were profitable for decades WITH unions. Lets have some perspective.

[tj5555555]

profitable for decades as the noose was drawn tighter & tighter and now kills the profit.

[hozehd]

so it took a few decades for the unions to drive the companies into the ground, doesn't seem like something to brag about.

[studio7manga]

Name a Successful Unionized Company?

All of Sweden practically, 80% unionization.

Not to mention the Japanese auto-makers that have unionized plants here and in Japan.

[Tiargus1]

I hate to break it to everyone....

If you're in a Union, you are the opposite of everything America prides itself on.

You are lazy

You are worthless

You are a welfare queen

You are greedy

You can't work

And you'll be damed to hell.

[studio7manga]

Keep failtrolling Tiargus.

[1samothrace77]

i hate to break it to you

if you're in a union your are very american

you like to work

you are worth a paycheck

you have a job

you are capitalistic

you are working

[eurohim]

Whatever Jim Cramer says, do the opposite.

[LeGioNoFZioN]

thats right when he says vote democrat you vote libertarian

[PhiloCentinel]

Libertarian is not the opposite of Democrat.

[LeGioNoFZioN]

no but it is a better choice

[rjanis123]

yeah, but could Cramer have named, off the top of his head ANY successful American Company?

and I"m just throwing this one out there, isn't Ford successful? I mean compared to its "American" rivals?

[LeGioNoFZioN]

yes but only moderately so. Honda and Toyota are far more successful without unions and the workers there get treated well without a union

[studio7manga]

Honda and Toyota have unionized plants in the US.  They also are unionized in Japan.

On big advantage they have over us, Japan has government provided healthcare, so they don't have to pay for it themselves.

[LeGioNoFZioN]

really ? well not here in Canada and not in much of South America either, and here they do real well. actually in Brazil Ford isn't unionized either.

[studio7manga]

So what have you shown: That companies can do well whether unionized or not. That's about it.

This of course doesn't address the fact that your country of origin is more unionized and more socialized, and a nicer place to live and work by several objective metrics and indices.

[LeGioNoFZioN]

nicer to live, yes, but we are less unionized here to be sure. Wal-Mart's still don't have unions north of the 49th. And our health care is so lax, companies still have to pay into health insurance for its employees (though clearly not as much as US companies). Not too big of a difference other than less racist whites here.

[studio7manga]

"we are less unionized"

Totally wrong.

Canada

Union membership: 4,000,000

Population: 33,670,000

Percent Unionized: 11.8%

US

Union membership: 15,000,000

Population: 306,553,000

Percent Unionized: 4.9%

[LeGioNoFZioN]

you cite numbers without understanding their context, first off those numbers are for 2004 or 2005, far from current. Second our public sector is overwhelmingly unionized, if you take out the auto industry and auto parts makers and their unionized staff, noting that Japanese autos have no unions here, the overwhelming vast majority are public sector employees.

[LeGioNoFZioN]

the government can unionize all its workers, there is no competition in that sector. We have a progressive government and legal structure here, and the majority of employers here treat you great without having to have a union.

In the real world we are less unionized than you, but our governemnt growth is insane and it grows the ranks of the unionized every year.

[LeGioNoFZioN]

I visited StatsCan, the official Canadian source for statistics and it turns out our public sector union rate doubles yours .... "Unionization in the public sector in the United States pales in comparison with Canada. In 2003, the U.S. rate (37.2%) was just over half of Canada's (72.0%)."

I understand the numbers are too old to be taken at face value, but our public union sector only grows it never shrinks. Can't speak for yours but maybe you know.

[studio7manga]

"our public sector is overwhelmingly unionized"

That still doesn't compensate for the fact that your overal unionization rate more than doubles ours. Then there is the case of Sweden which has an overall unionization rate of ~80% and does just fine and actually is a nicer place to work and live than your country. And let's not even get into parts of South America where trade unionists have to fear for their lives from the oligarchs.

So again your argument fails.

Ps: They're 2009 estimates.

[LeGioNoFZioN]

overall it is bigger but government inion participation skews the numbers because market forces do not affect the "industry" in question. So yes overall it is larger but the nature of government skews that. Privately our numbers are less. 2009 estimates are not 2009 numbers expecially given the number of jobs lost. We lost a record numebr of unionized jobs just the last two months so I doubt the veracity fo those numbers which do not include up to date figures.

[studio7manga]

"our numbers are less"

But not your percentages.

This conversation is pointless if you're just going to make stupid excuses. Stop being such an idealogue. It's quite clear that unions are not a principal cause of company problems, otherwise Sweden would be impoverished and bankrupt.

But I've said all I need to say, unless you come up with something new, but I'd doubt it.

[LeGioNoFZioN]

our percentages are less if you remove the government, which is over 70% unionized, and expanding every year. That is my point, the argument is moot because our private sector doesn't grow unionized jobs very well or consistantly.

Unions in Canada re not the same as Sweden of America, different countries have different rules regulating and supporting unions, its like comparing apples to oranges. the closest comparison one can make is US to Canada since we have very many similar rules and law

[LeGioNoFZioN]

even then the comparison is still skewed because our regulatory structures though similar do differ. It is more appropriate to judge unionized companies versus non unionized companies doing similar jobs. In Canada the most profitable car companies do not have unions. That is a fact. In Canada not all unions are bad or poorly affect workers, but many are.

[studio7manga]

Canadian Union membership in the public sector compiled from individual member unions not including teachers or health profesionals (of which I'm sure some working in the private sector): 1,900,000

Canadian population: 33,670,000

Percent unionized: 5.64%

Overall US unionization rate, including public sector employees: 4.9%

hrsdc. gc. ca/eng/lp/wid/union_membership . sh tml

[voyeurdug]

Disney (Teamsters)... and several others... but the point they're avoiding is: ANY union isn't ALL unions. Companies with unions that are successful, are those whose unions treat with management as colleagues, and with their members as constituents.

If unions and union members were required to be shareholders, the whole field of labor-management relations would CHANGE overnight.

Notice the proposed post-bankruptcy structure of GM. The union gets a stake in ownership & a seat on the board.

[micahgee]

exactly...

these morons just blame the US workers basically. "those lazy unionized autoworkers" etc, when the management are the ones stupid enough to keep making bigger and bigger cars

[Tiargus1]

Oh yeah, little cars. Why didn't they think of that. This is why only property owners should vote.

[LeGioNoFZioN]

there is an element of truth in that, but when the answer is to build the smaller car at a different location better suited for smaller cars, unions get in the way. For sure their management sucks, but the unions suck right along with them

[someperson111]

Unions are a central part to the growth of the Middle class in the 50s. These guys hate America's middle class u can just tell

[Govtflu]

Morning Joke.

[micahgee]

yup

[billthebutcher2]

All of baseball? All of the film and television industry? And on and on and on.

[atm94404]

Jim Cramer still has a job?

[uforeader]

how about hollywood? actors, directors, camera men.... and hollywood makes a bundle.

[PharaohNineD]

What is the point to people like that?>

[talkaboutwacky]

Unions are gaining unprecedented power? Since when? Labor unions are the weakest they've ever been in our nations history which is a shame. It's not unions that are responsible for the crappy economy

[micahgee]

exactly

[kevmo99]

How about full disclosure?

Morning Joe is sponsored by Starbucks....

Guess which company has employees that are trying to unionize at the moment.

[kevmo99]

Successful in terms of money making? Is that how success is viewed?

How about:

The crew of flight 1549 over the Hudson RIver.

The first responders on 9/11

The crew of the cargo ships that never lost control of their ship to Somali pirates

[Aylinbx]

LMAO......

[corkcityjane]

unions have been vital for workers rights throughout history, and most of what they fought for is now incorporated into labour laws, unfortunately now we sometimes have a case of unions holding cities/countries/companies to ransom with demands for higher wages etc rather than altruistic reasons,(happens often in Ireland) unions still have a place in the labour market but it is hard to get the balance of power right. (like in all things).

[corkcityjane]

unionised companies are often successful, commenters have already done a great job naming them...and it is actually very desirable to work for a unionized company over here. there is a great security for the normal person being part of a union. I hate morning Joe, I wonder if he is part of a TV union/guild....?

[RealCaptainAmerica]

UPS.... GE... which owns NBC... oh, and MSNBC... where Joe works.

Joe's camera man is probably a union worker. Idiot.

[3ssay]

Anwser: Food Basics. I worked their not 4 years ago, and they're doing fine.

[chillmonster]

Costco. AT&T.

[darkally]

Hm...this is silly just because one can't be named that doesn't meant they don't exist.  Its a logical fallacy.

[Vyan1]

The MOVIE INDUSTRY!!

[Superplatanoman]

Movie and the tv industry. Sports. MLB, Baseball, and Football. But, I think they are making fun of the quote.

[Aylinbx]

Bwhahaha..... I just noticed that. lol

[PersonalJesus348]

UFW, UWA, OVW...

[Francebrasil]

Union busters spreading fear and idiocies on the air... And, as far as I am concerned, predatory businesses like Walmart can go to hell ( if it exists..)

[GonzoTheGreat3000]

That's why I never shop there.

[skynet329]

Toyota

[KosmicCitizen]

Unproductive parasites like the ones featured in this segment are the natural enemies of labor unions. Not surprising at all.

[sachaput]

Right on!!

These types would have us going back to the times of sweat shops and child labor. Profit above people is their motto.

[mikemidcity]

Unions are the working man's friend and the rich man's enemy.

[anonymolol]

they can also be the public's enemy when already-overpaid workers hold cities hostage over impossible salary demands.

[studio7manga]

Welcome to the 1st amendment anonymolol. Hope you enjoy living in a constitutional representative republic.

[MooseOfReason]

Yeah, the Transit Workers' Union in New York went on strike (illegally) over Christmas break and New Years a couple years ago.

[Mojean24]

GE...one of the largest companies in the world....UPS, with billions in PROFITS last year....so thats 2...

[CJQuinn]

Ignorant talking heads are ignorant.

They act like unions are some kind of smallpox for business.

The vast majority of developed countries are heavily unionised but they seem to get along fine..

[Aylinbx]

How about the film industry? That's a successful one for ya. *roll eyes*

[steeleye65]

Using "film" and "industry" together is like using "shit" and "sandwich" together. The insanely green lobby that hates nuclear energy and fossil fuels both gains power from the film makers. Hollywood would be the only industry if they had their way.

[studio7manga]

So your against democracy then. Is that what you're saying steeleye? Or do you just believe in democracy for people that think like you.

[mikemidcity]

Doesn't Joe pal around with domestic terrorist?

[BrerRabbitBDA]

Riiiight ... so ... umm ... GM is a mess, Detriot is a mess ... American industry is a mess because of ... union?!?!?

Riiiight, so I guess those union workers spend their lunch breaks planning out car design, and fuel efficiency, and marketing schemes, and planned obsolescence ...

Yeah sure ... its the unions ... It has noting to do with greedy business school CEO corp. fucks.

What a freaking joke.

[olof790217]

Man (some of) you americans are screwed up, unions are the most natural thing there is.. you most have some balance against corporate power.

[losarman]

well said, it works in other countries, why not the US.

[puffyDK]

but think about it, then shouldnt you have some balance to the union's power...I mean look at GM and all the big three, they were able to artificially drive wages so high that (it had a role in) the company becoming non-competitive. So clearly, the problem is more complex than just saying "unions are good".

[BrerRabbitBDA]

So puffy ...

GM is bankrupt because of unionized workers?

Man, you REALLY drank the Kool-Aid my friend. GM is in the state is is because the front office (its CEOs) we inept. Not because of a unionized workforce.

[eurohim]

Have you considered there may have been more than one factor?

[puffyDK]

NO, that is not what I said. I said it played a PART in the downfall of GM. CLEARLY, they had major major problems in the front office. However, if you compare GM to other car manufacturers, they were paying their workers a lot more than their competitors, for similar jobs, in similar regions. This was because GM had an extremely powerful union...

Again, I'm not saying that was THE reason, I'm saying thats part..PART of the reason..

[robinvan1983]

i donno what union GM had but then the management where feels for giving them such high salaries. Usually unions ask each year to raise wages just as high or 1 or 2 % higher as inflation.... that isn't a downfall of GM

[olof790217]

You are danish right, then you should know all about this and I shouldnt have to explain this to you..One person can never have any real influence against the employer when it comes to wages, work enviroment, breaks, regulated time off..unions are for the more vulnerable members of the workforce that maybe isnt as good at promoting themselfs and claiming influence in their own work-situation and by that their rights, the rights that I want them having and that I think should include every worker

[puffyDK]

Olof, Thats the positive side of unions and yes I understand that side of it. But please understand that there is a backdrop in the fact that unions can cripple a manufacturer by going on strike and demanding higher pay...and where does it end? who decides what the right wage is? the employer whose trying to run a profitable business or the employee who just wants to get paid a as much as possible?

There is more than one side to this, unions are not just power to the people, the are cons as wel

[dogstar7]

"who decides what the right wage is?"

Collective bargaining does.

That's what Unions ensure.

Who represents workers otherwise?

[olof790217]

Yeah but if you did some homework you would know that the US is far from that, that might have happened sometimes in Scandinavia but if you study up on the unions situation in America you will find that there is a massive difference. Most people who doesnt know how the labour situation looks like in the US often gets shocked when they find out the difference in the workers situation.

[PASMdude]

99.99% of Americans are screwed up. They sit on their fat asses on their couches eating shit that clogs the arteries in their hearts and their heads listening to corporations who have their own interest in mind telling them what to think and regurgitate as truth. We are fucking doomed.

[bombonyou]

If that's how you feel, you should go join Al Qaeda. You'll fit right in.

[PASMdude]

If thats the way you feel you must be sitting on your ass eating pork rinds. You should not make babies. The gene pool is in bad enough shape already.

[bombonyou]

Oh yeah? Well, if that's how YOU feel....

You're probably sitting on pork rinds and eating your ass. Not only should you not *make* babies, you shouldn't be allowed near them. Your genes don't come from a pool, they come from sewer.

[PASMdude]

If you think criticizing a system that is rotting which is what a true patriot should do means that you are a terrorist then I have serious doubts as to your critical thinking skills and I am not all that interested in your opinion. Buy some books on logic and learn how to use it to persuade someone because insulting them has a poor track record of changing someones mind.

[bombonyou]

you weren't "criticizing a system", you were demonizing all Americans and spewing non-sequiturs. Oh, but apparently anyone who responds to you must elevate the discussion to a logical and respectful dialogue. I wasn't trying to persuade you, "dude", I was pointing out that shitting on all Americans - as your comment did - puts your rhetoric on par with morons, extremists, and haters of all stripes. You don't want to be insulted? Try to make less pea brained comments.

[PASMdude]

The implication was that people make decisions based on what they are told to think without thinking for themselves. That got us president Obama who is continuing every failed policy of the Bush administration. Under Bush deficits our dollar lost half its value against the Euro, hit an all time low against the Canadian Looney, and a 28 year low against the British pound. The media promised us change we could believe in and what we got was a continuation of bad policies.

[PASMdude]

My comment was heavy with sarcasm. Look up socratic dialectic. You could have made some valid points such as the number of people who voted third party proves that the internet is is making inroads into the effect corporate media has and proves that the 99% figure I offered was wrong etc. Instead you decided to insult me.if you can make valid arguments I won't have to sink to your level to get a point across.