@TorKelRa dont forget, they lost inertial dampeners upon being flung out of the stream. Their bellyflop threw the entire saucer section up. I wouldnt be surprised if everyone in the saucer section died instantly from being flung to the cieling
Epic scene. Voyager got off to a good start but got better every season and season 4 and 5 is where Voyager really finds its feet. And this episode was spectacular.
I went back to check the Timeless episode on Netflix and from what i saw in novels i think Harry didn't take into consideration Voyager's hull geometry during the phase corrections. Which does make sense from what we knew of the Slipstream technology. Since you need both good hull geometry and deflector geometry like the Dauntless had or the non-canon Vesta-Class Starships have. This would also explain why the Delta Flyer had no problems pretty much throughout the flight.
Starship crash comparisons - Ent-D (Larger Mass, Lower Entry Speed, entire saucer has better aerodynamics), Voyager (Smaller Mass, Very high entry speed, adequate aerodynamics) The Ent-D Saucer slid to a halt, Voyager did a bellyflop then a slide on a very solid surface. Voyager's landing was far more violent, casualties would be much high if not total
If i remember right in a interview Kate Mulgrew said it was originally intended to show that Kathryn and Tom survived the impact or something to explain their positions on the bridge. No doubt Kathryn's spot where she died was trying to get to Tactical to check on Tuvok. Not sure how i would explain Tom's position on the bridge since he looked pretty close to his station.
@specie8470 difference was Enterprise-D didn't hit the planet at full impulse with no internal dampers and with multiple breaches throughout half the ship.
@npanzner1943 The Ent-D saucer wasn't travelling as fast, but she was pretty much uncontrollable much like Voyager, both ships still had limited inertial dampener effects otherwise that crew would be chunky salsa, not just thrown around. though the Ent-D saucer had a more level descent, better aerodynamics
@specie8470 Because the Voyager had little time to react to an emergency landing. They came in way to fast which killed everyone on impact. Enterprise came in at a shallow angle which smoothed out the crash.
@specie8470 Look at the impact at 0:42-0:43 ish... probably most of the crew was killed in that moment (notice they don't go back to any internal shots after?) as inertial dampeners couldn't keep up with a rockin' like that. Anyone who survived froze to death before to long... at least you'd hope.
@KaneinEncanto look at the video of the Enterpise-D crash the Enterpise saucer section hits a hill of earth compard to Voyager's saucer section never even hitting the snow and looks like powdered snow from the trail Voyager makes through it compared to a huge forest and hills Enterprise hits.
@specie8470 I suspect the Enterprise-D's saucer section had significantly more mass than Voyager does. The impacts on the 2 hilltops don't produce any significant vector change, though they do rock the saucer nicely. Beyond the 2 impact events the landing is smooth, compared to Voyager hitting the ground here (I don't count Voyager hitting clipping the mountain top) Though a good note: look how bad the crew gets tossed around when the saucer stops, it was much worse on Voyager at impact.
@specie8470 Peek at cygnus-x1(DOT)net/links/lcars/blueprints/Voyager-Technical-Manual/Page_14.jpg
Nice size comparison...Enterprise's saucer section probably has as much mass, if not more, than Voyager in her entirety. The Enterprise's saucer section had not been hit too badly in the fight with the Sisters, but Voyager had structural damage including hull breeches 0:10 BEFORE she hit the ground. Anyone not dead on impact, froze to death shortly after.
@specie8470 The rest is simple physics. With more mass the Enterprise's saucer barely looses any momentum, while Voyager has less mass and is more affected. Which is harder to stop given a similar speed, a bowling ball, or a pool table's ball?
@specie8470 Mr. Paris did a great job with the landing considering they just flew off the quantum slipstream highway. Everyone probably froze to death shortly after impact.
How come every time there's a hull breach on any ship and they show the exterior there's no hull breach. i think hull breaches on 5 decks can be seen from even far away especially the oxygen escaping.
Budgetary constraints. Ever notice why when a replicator is replicating something, usually it's off-screen, and you just heard the sound, and see the lights? That's because it costs money to do those effects.
Doing a scene which shows Voyager ripped open involved more CGI work. The more work they do, the more it costs. Many episodes were rewritten because the scenes called for effects beyond their budget.
If this series didn't have the cushion from the OS movies, Next Gen series, & DS9 they never would've made it 7 seasons. What a shame Enterprise was cancelled because it was so much better than Voyager.
Enterprise was a bucket of shit :D "I've got faaaith". Seriously?? The worst Trek. Although to be honest, Voyager was pretty dodgy. A few good episodes, but the hit/miss ratio is pretty lopsided. I still don't understand why they didn't shoot Neelix in the face after the first few episodes. I would have.
@Zebonka Oh, complain, complain! How much pull do Trek fans like us have with Paramount executives? Zero. Zilch. Nada. Niente. So I just decided to shut my mouth and watch it. Mistakes? Whatever! It's Star Trek!!! Wheeeeeeee!!!!
@gayconusa None of the Star Trek series went past 7 seasons, and not because of ratings. The only two series to be cancelled before they were "finished" were TOS and Enterprise.
@Tranchera The only reason Star Trek series never go past 7 seasons is that Paramount has an unofficial rule where none of its series go further than 7 seasons. Only very unique cases like Fraiser went on longer.
@Tranchera The original show was cancelled due to ratings. TNG "ended" in favor of movies. DS9's actor contracts all ended after six years. The seventh season was planned from the get go as "the final season." Come VOY, seven years just seemed like the right time to end it, especially with UPN pushing for a fifth series (second for the network). Enterprise was just poorly timed, people were bored with Star Trek.
@gayconusa This was the 100th episode from the fifth season. No wonder it didn't keep going? It went on to a sixth and then a seventh season. It was only brought to an end to make room for "Enterprise," the fifth series. Otherwise, it might have continued into an eighth season. The show wasn't nearly as successful as "The Next Generation," but it was on for seven years (172 episodes). I'd call that a success, wouldn't you?
@2009joshyboy How could a crash like that NOT kill the entire crew? If you look at that ship and imagine it having 13 decks (so imagine how small the people are) everyone would be crushed like bugs. I can't understand how everyone isn't splayed open on the deck when Harry and Chakotay find them in the future!
@Tranchera Not exactly something you can show on primetime TV. But I do agree, when they recovered Seven she should have had some kind of visible injuries.
@Tranchera Not exactly something you can show on prime time television. But I do agree, the crew should have had some kind of visible injuries and should probably have all been piled up at the front of the bridge.
The Mythbusters did a show on airline crashes and showed footage of how violent it can be when a plane impacts the ground, even when relatively parallel to the ground and a heck of a lot slower than Voyager was moving.
@Tranchera Acording to ST lore, and engineering, Inertial dampeners would have been used during a crash to negaet the affects of a sever crash landing I think
@tinroofbusted The inertial dampeners fail every time they get shot. Considering the ship was "close to structural collapse", I think it's safe to assume something that ALWAYS fails will have already failed. Plus they're all rocking around on the bridge, and that wouldn't happen if inertial dampeners worked as they should anyway.
@Tranchera Hmmmmmmmmmmm Interesting, However, Consider the time delay even if taken a micro second there would still be a body of movement. Interesting point though. I have noticed a certain amount of leeway with the tec manuals references. Case in point, The distruction of the Enterprise D, A whole lot of shaking going on with the saucer landing and the stop was a killer. But it held together fair well considering. and most of the crew survived.
@Tranchera they dont fail all the time. when its incoming weapons fire or a shock wave hits the dampers cant compensate 100% for a unknown amount of force so they lag slightly but they are still working. it they failed all the time you could kill the entire crew with 1-2 torpedos shields up or down. we're talking about a ship thats around 1million tons geting kicked around by torpedos in the 100 megaton range
So why is "structural collapse" supposed to occur? And which is going to cause more damage- remaining in the vacuum of space or crashing into a planet without intertial dampeners? Clearly they didn't try rerouting power to the structural integrity field.
@Sovereign01 They re-entered normal space from a hyper-accelerated rate, they were going much faster than they should have been. In real life that probably wouldn't have been a problem, but this isn't real life.
@Sovereign01 With a bit of imagination you can sort of see why. They'd just been thrown out of a slipstream conduit going so fast that they'd just about made it back to earth in minutes. After being ejected from the core with their systems down going who knows how fast, the ship was starting to get torn apart. Hard to imagine in a frictionless environment like the vacuum of space -- but there are minute quantities of space dust that fill the vacuum which may not seem like a lot. But at the
@Sovereign01 But at the speeds we're talking about, even tiny bits of dust can do devastating damage if accelerated high enough. Force = Mass*Acceleration. Could destroy a city block with a penny if you were able to accelerate it high enough.
If they could land the ship, there'd be no more stress on the already breached hull -- but that'd only be useful if they survived the landing, which they didn't. Couldn't slow down their descent.
@cswurt That's what navigational deflector shields are designed to protect against, yet there was no mention of them failing when the ship exited the slipstream.
Isnt there some temporal police at starfleet that detects changes in timeline? Also at the end, harry gave a code to knock them out of slip stream. They could had used it again and save another 10 years.
There are two factions. Temporal investigations which investigate temporal anamolies involving Starfleet in current times. And a faction from the future who watch the timeline. If Harry Kim was always destined to reset the timeline, they wouldn't have interfered.
They explain at the end that the slipstream drive was burnt out beyond repair after their trip.
Let me get this straight - you are thrown out of a transwarp conduit at terrific speed - and your solution is to drive straight into a planet - what is essentially a huge ball of rock? Harry's message should have asked them why they took such a dumb decision.
@ShoulderAB07 I came to the conclusion that IF they had landed safely, they would have had a CHANCE to survive, rather than being torn apart in space, with NO chance.
@ShoulderAB07 Just some of the frequent lack of reason on part of the writers. Even at ages 9 through 15 I was always calling BS on things that happened on this show.
Let me get this straight - you are thrown out of a transwarp conduit at terrific speed - and your solution is to drive straight into a planet - what is essentially a huge ball of rock? Harry's message should have asked them why they took such a dumb decision.
Cool post, thanks. One of my favorite episodes and it's obvious that NOONE aboard survived this crash. The Inertial Dampening Field would have NEVER been able to dilute THIS kind of impact enough for anyone to survive. This is evidenced by the fact that the Structural Intergrity Field also collapsed at the moment of impact, causing decks 9 thru 14 to be deck 10.
The intertial dampeners are strong enough to counter-act acceleration from 0 to light speed in seconds. SO! They would be strong enough to prevent a ship falling at say 200 kph to 0 in a second. Right?
@HeeroYuyDekkers Actually, when a Starship enters Warp, they do NOT accelerate rapidly (in this space time) they go into a 'bubble' and the space in font of them is compressed and the space behind them stretches. This forces the ship through the 'folding' of spacetime, forward. While in the bubble (the Warp field), they are more or less stationary and are not subjected to the inertia that a ship would encounter if it were REALLY accelerating to faster than light speed in THIS spacetime.
I Never got too worked up about Voyager until I saw this Spectacular Crash. This Starship Crash was so Great and So Spectacular that it Topped the 1965 Crash of the Jupiter 2 from Lost In Space. That other Crash was so Realistic and so Life like that you would Swear that a Plane was coming down !
So uhh...structural collapse will occur if they keep the ship in....space...where there is no gravity or other forces. But structural collapse will not occur if they ram the ship into an atmosphere and then crash it on the planet? Did I miss anything, or does that cover this episode's lesson on Star Trek Plot Manipulation?
I don't even know where to begin.....do you think that Gravity just sort of....teleports between celestial bodies...? What about solar winds? Radiation?
@davethecritter Have to remember they've got a pressurised ship in a vacuum, one blown hatch or weak wall and they'd be in vacuum, that ship would explode, not a pretty picture
aren't they suppose to go to condition blue before landing the ship? were they planning on just skidding on the ice to a complete stop...what about the landing struts?
@ryangar7 Well let's think about this for a moment....they were literally FALLING OUT OF SPACE! They had NO TIME to do something as MINOR as that! I bet you in the back of everybody's mind on the bridge, they knew that they were going to die. Voyager had no chance of even remotely surviving the crash.
@ryangar7 The struts would have been ripped free and caused yet more damage to an already critical ship, they kept more from just landing her like that, crew's dead yes but the ship survived for the most part
@compmanio36 Tuvok said in the beginning that there are hull breaches, they're losing life support and if they don't land they're risking structural collapse.
Here's a question for you. Why is it that this crash killed the entire crew, where as the crash landing of the saucer section in Generations result in only "light" casualties?
@lawrence5584 probably because Voyager smacked ice at full impulse, but Enterprise-D's saucer gently glided down and struck a large tree or something long after reducing to a slower speed. What Voyager went through was akin to landing a 747 without wings
@80stvfan09 Speed probably was indeed a factor, though I wouldn't call the Enterprise crash "gentle". Come to think of it, it also has to do with the ship design. voyager is narrow and "arrow head" shaped. Meaning it'd cut through the air like a missile. The saucer module on the otherhand is wide, flat and aerodynamic, meaning it rode the current rather than cut through it. Ergo, when they touched down, Voyager was going a lot faster, thus total casualties.
@lawrence5584 and also, keep in mind the Enterprise-D still had some systems online, and Voyager was literally falling out of space from an aborted slipstream flight.
@80stvfan09 but still the fact remains that both ships fell at the same speed, could tom not do the same as Data, reroute auxiliary power to thrusters to level decent? Voyager has RCS thrusters just as Enterprise-D did. the RCS thrusters are the Orange-ish colored marks on the edges of the saucer
@bandittdukeboy depends i guess, is it possible Ent-D's thrusters were enabled via Data's android speed or not. if so, then Tom could never input the variables necessary in time. also, Ent-D had only the saucer section, which probably helped a bit, while Voyager was still carrying her entire self there too, you must admit, having the nacelles and various other components intact did not help the mass nor aerodynamics of Voyager
@bandittdukeboy what makes you think they were at the same speed? Voyager could've been thrown out of slipstream at an enormous velocity, Tom just steered it for the planet and hoped for the best...
@80stvfan09 LOL "Voager smacked ice at full impulse." Do you know how fast that is? Do you know what would happen to that little starship if it struck *anything* at that speed? Not this crash -- think an impact of around 1.15 x 10^11 megatons of TNT - a completely vaporized ship. So no, Voyager (as it appears in this shot) could have *maybe* been travelling a few thousand kilometers per hour. Nowhere NEAR full impulse.
You guys can shit-pick all you want, it's still a shit cool sequence. Yeah I know it was because of advanced special effects & budgets etc, but Voyager was good for stuff like this, much more than TNG or DS9
What i don't understand is, if future Harry Kim provided a way to disperse the quantam field at the last second, now that voyager has that knowledge, they appear to be able to go "10 years distance" before they begin to destablise, sooo how come they cant reuse the dispersal method future harry kim provided repeatably till they're home.. *frowns*
@Lilbluemine Thats a good question. If they can safely reproduce the procedure repeatedly it would work. The only problem i see is the information was gained via unethical means (alternate Kim and Chocotay, although sacrificing themselves too, selfishly exploited countless innocent strangers in unknown ways just to save their personal friends or family and appease guilt). It would be like we using information from people who have been brainwashed into not knowing they were being exploited.
I love this episode, but a few things bug me. Tuvok states that they risk structural collapse if they don't land the ship. OK, it's going to break apart in space any moment. How is landing, which will probably be a crash landing, a better alternative? The dialogue should have played out something like, "Structural collapse is imminent, the hull is failing!" Now landing the ship makes sense.... the hull is going to break up regardless, might as well be on a planet instead of in space.
@AngemonRulez I always wondered this too. I figured either the weight of the nacelles balanced out with the saucer or there was some kind of anti-gravity involved to keep the ship from tipping over. However, if that's the case... what happens if the generator fails? Ruuuuun! lol
@panhead1219 This bugged me. Why can't it be a planet with many environments, like Earth, and they just happen to land upon a polar cap like our Antarctica?
yup star fleet really need several things on star ships. Seat belts, non exploding consoles, reliable inertial dampners, weapons that don't go offline at the slightest jolt. If federations starships were cars they'd be mass recalled from some of the eps :)) [/Geek]
@randomrazr voyager was losing structual integrity ,it wouldv collapsed in space and they would be dead...if they crash landed they had a chance to survive on the planet.
You'd be lucky to survive that without injuries. Now imagine the same forces acting upon that car, except you're a gerbil. You're going to be thrown across the car at high speeds. Gerbils are pretty tough, you might just be lucky enough to get out of that alive.
Now imagine you're a gerbil sized human in the same car. You're fucked. You are thrown into the back of the seat at 200 kph and you are dead.
@translucentorb Not to be incredibly nerdy (but I so am): the inertial dampeners fail on almost every mission, I think it's safe to assume they'd have already failed here too.
@Tranchera Given that the ship was damaged to the point where they had to perform such a suicidal landing, I'd say that inertial dampers were definately not functioning.
@Tranchera If I am in my car with a gerbil in my butt what happens when I hit a wall? Does my gerbil live? Should I clench my cheeks to shield him or push out a fart to eject him?
@krashly71 If you push out just as you're impacting the wall, and if your farts are strong enough to propel the gerbil at the speeds of a moving car, the gerbil would, to an outside observer, simply appear to "fall out" of your butt.
If you time it right, the gerbil would land on the seat after the car has crashed and all the gerbil would have to worry about is twisted metal, your lifeless body crashing back down upon him, or not being able to open the door due to not having opposable thumbs.
@Tranchera While I agree with you 100% I just have to point out that your comment reminds me of that Old Spice commercial. I half expect you to say, "I'm on a horse." :-D
@Tranchera Just as you'd be totally smeared on the back wall of the ship if you didn't have someway of compensating for traveling at warp speeds. I just assume the compensator still worked... Easy hand wave.
@AngelusDlion Actually interestingly enough if you watch the episode just before this clip starts Tom says that the inertial dampness are offline. It's just as they get torn from slipstream.
@AngelusDlion Actually interestingly enough if you watch the episode just before this clip starts Tom says that the inertial dampners are offline. It's just as they get torn from slipstream.
When Entering subspace via the slipstream drive theres more that just the force of vaccum acting upon the ship. There not travelling through open space therefore your argument is null
Agreed, Tran. The first time I watched this it didn't make sense. Movement through space will have no impact on 'structural integrity'. There are no forces acting upon an object moving in a straight line through vacuum, no matter what the speed. It was complete Star Trek Fail.
lmfao very bad analogy my friend, your brakes fail you hit a tree? no no no. what she did was the most logical thing to do. using your analogy if your brakes fail your find something that will create a resistance (grass, mud, dirt etc..) on her case its was a "touchdown" on a planet. she did not nosedive into the planet thus did dot "run into a tree" she did what she could with what she had or run the risk of losing everything. any captian would have done the same.
Voyager was amazing. Season 1-7 were all absolutely spectacular!
WithMountains 1 day ago
Hehe snowflake feature works well here
Tripicality 1 month ago
If I recall that episode, everyone dies.
SunTrapped 2 months ago
@TorKelRa dont forget, they lost inertial dampeners upon being flung out of the stream. Their bellyflop threw the entire saucer section up. I wouldnt be surprised if everyone in the saucer section died instantly from being flung to the cieling
Venerabela 3 months ago
Snow Crash.
piplupsingularity 3 months ago
"All hands, brace for impact! And try not to shit yourself!!!"
localfive0 3 months ago
That planet looks so much like Andoria!
TaskForceElites 3 months ago
Epic scene. Voyager got off to a good start but got better every season and season 4 and 5 is where Voyager really finds its feet. And this episode was spectacular.
Captain74656 4 months ago 2
I went back to check the Timeless episode on Netflix and from what i saw in novels i think Harry didn't take into consideration Voyager's hull geometry during the phase corrections. Which does make sense from what we knew of the Slipstream technology. Since you need both good hull geometry and deflector geometry like the Dauntless had or the non-canon Vesta-Class Starships have. This would also explain why the Delta Flyer had no problems pretty much throughout the flight.
npanzner1943 4 months ago
Comment removed
npanzner1943 4 months ago
I'm surprised Marina Sirtis didn't guess star in this episode so she could be the one responsible for the crash of this ship!
Speaking of which, it's interesting that LeVar Burton did, AND he just happened to be the director of this episode.
hiltonlive32grnrngr 5 months ago
Starship crash comparisons - Ent-D (Larger Mass, Lower Entry Speed, entire saucer has better aerodynamics), Voyager (Smaller Mass, Very high entry speed, adequate aerodynamics) The Ent-D Saucer slid to a halt, Voyager did a bellyflop then a slide on a very solid surface. Voyager's landing was far more violent, casualties would be much high if not total
TorKelRa 5 months ago
If i remember right in a interview Kate Mulgrew said it was originally intended to show that Kathryn and Tom survived the impact or something to explain their positions on the bridge. No doubt Kathryn's spot where she died was trying to get to Tactical to check on Tuvok. Not sure how i would explain Tom's position on the bridge since he looked pretty close to his station.
npanzner1943 5 months ago
@specie8470 difference was Enterprise-D didn't hit the planet at full impulse with no internal dampers and with multiple breaches throughout half the ship.
npanzner1943 5 months ago
@npanzner1943 The Ent-D saucer wasn't travelling as fast, but she was pretty much uncontrollable much like Voyager, both ships still had limited inertial dampener effects otherwise that crew would be chunky salsa, not just thrown around. though the Ent-D saucer had a more level descent, better aerodynamics
TorKelRa 5 months ago
How come the Enterprise-D saucer section crash lands and hits a huge forest and almost everyone surives but everyone dies on Voyager?
specie8470 5 months ago
@specie8470 Because the Voyager had little time to react to an emergency landing. They came in way to fast which killed everyone on impact. Enterprise came in at a shallow angle which smoothed out the crash.
thefinalfrontier1701 5 months ago
@specie8470 Look at the impact at 0:42-0:43 ish... probably most of the crew was killed in that moment (notice they don't go back to any internal shots after?) as inertial dampeners couldn't keep up with a rockin' like that. Anyone who survived froze to death before to long... at least you'd hope.
KaneinEncanto 5 months ago
@KaneinEncanto look at the video of the Enterpise-D crash the Enterpise saucer section hits a hill of earth compard to Voyager's saucer section never even hitting the snow and looks like powdered snow from the trail Voyager makes through it compared to a huge forest and hills Enterprise hits.
specie8470 5 months ago
@specie8470 I suspect the Enterprise-D's saucer section had significantly more mass than Voyager does. The impacts on the 2 hilltops don't produce any significant vector change, though they do rock the saucer nicely. Beyond the 2 impact events the landing is smooth, compared to Voyager hitting the ground here (I don't count Voyager hitting clipping the mountain top) Though a good note: look how bad the crew gets tossed around when the saucer stops, it was much worse on Voyager at impact.
KaneinEncanto 5 months ago
@specie8470 I'll gather the details after I get home from work. See if that idea fits the numbers...
KaneinEncanto 5 months ago
@specie8470 Peek at cygnus-x1(DOT)net/links/lcars/blueprints/Voyager-Technical-Manual/Page_14.jpg
Nice size comparison...Enterprise's saucer section probably has as much mass, if not more, than Voyager in her entirety. The Enterprise's saucer section had not been hit too badly in the fight with the Sisters, but Voyager had structural damage including hull breeches 0:10 BEFORE she hit the ground. Anyone not dead on impact, froze to death shortly after.
KaneinEncanto 5 months ago
@specie8470 The rest is simple physics. With more mass the Enterprise's saucer barely looses any momentum, while Voyager has less mass and is more affected. Which is harder to stop given a similar speed, a bowling ball, or a pool table's ball?
KaneinEncanto 5 months ago
Comment removed
npanzner1943 5 months ago
@specie8470 BC is its enterprise! The name recognition gives you a bonus to your hull intergrity so you can do what ever you want! LOL jk.
TiredPolitician 5 months ago
@specie8470 Mr. Paris did a great job with the landing considering they just flew off the quantum slipstream highway. Everyone probably froze to death shortly after impact.
tubernery 4 months ago
How come every time there's a hull breach on any ship and they show the exterior there's no hull breach. i think hull breaches on 5 decks can be seen from even far away especially the oxygen escaping.
captainbly200 5 months ago
@captainbly200
Budgetary constraints. Ever notice why when a replicator is replicating something, usually it's off-screen, and you just heard the sound, and see the lights? That's because it costs money to do those effects.
Doing a scene which shows Voyager ripped open involved more CGI work. The more work they do, the more it costs. Many episodes were rewritten because the scenes called for effects beyond their budget.
Draknfyre 5 months ago
It's a chilling thought (no pun intended) that the entire crew were killed at 0:43.
ProtoKun7 6 months ago
If this series didn't have the cushion from the OS movies, Next Gen series, & DS9 they never would've made it 7 seasons. What a shame Enterprise was cancelled because it was so much better than Voyager.
paralentor 6 months ago
Enterprise was a bucket of shit :D "I've got faaaith". Seriously?? The worst Trek. Although to be honest, Voyager was pretty dodgy. A few good episodes, but the hit/miss ratio is pretty lopsided. I still don't understand why they didn't shoot Neelix in the face after the first few episodes. I would have.
Zebonka 6 months ago
@Zebonka Oh, complain, complain! How much pull do Trek fans like us have with Paramount executives? Zero. Zilch. Nada. Niente. So I just decided to shut my mouth and watch it. Mistakes? Whatever! It's Star Trek!!! Wheeeeeeee!!!!
spacecowboy5000 6 months ago
@Zebonka because he was the "moral" officer. He had no real pull with Janeway or Chakotay.
Kefka44 5 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@Bigdog7867 They threw their hands up at dealing with the so-called fandom of the time, actually.
SkewYT 6 months ago
@Bigdog7867 How?
elsewho 6 months ago
Wonderful effects for a syndicated show. Still looks decent.
bumblebert 6 months ago
Episode?
mun2go 7 months ago
@mun2go In the title, Episode 5x06, "Timeless".
Tranchera 7 months ago 5
This comment has received too many negative votes show
Stupid writers, no wonder the show didn't keep going. What a joke.
gayconusa 8 months ago
@gayconusa None of the Star Trek series went past 7 seasons, and not because of ratings. The only two series to be cancelled before they were "finished" were TOS and Enterprise.
Tranchera 8 months ago 16
@Tranchera The only reason Star Trek series never go past 7 seasons is that Paramount has an unofficial rule where none of its series go further than 7 seasons. Only very unique cases like Fraiser went on longer.
lloyd007a 7 months ago
@Tranchera The original show was cancelled due to ratings. TNG "ended" in favor of movies. DS9's actor contracts all ended after six years. The seventh season was planned from the get go as "the final season." Come VOY, seven years just seemed like the right time to end it, especially with UPN pushing for a fifth series (second for the network). Enterprise was just poorly timed, people were bored with Star Trek.
Frost3784 5 months ago
@gayconusa This was the 100th episode from the fifth season. No wonder it didn't keep going? It went on to a sixth and then a seventh season. It was only brought to an end to make room for "Enterprise," the fifth series. Otherwise, it might have continued into an eighth season. The show wasn't nearly as successful as "The Next Generation," but it was on for seven years (172 episodes). I'd call that a success, wouldn't you?
Frost3784 7 months ago
@gayconusa Since when is seven years considered a poor run?
Frost3784 5 months ago
i cant understand how a crash like that cud kill the entire crew
2009joshyboy 8 months ago
@2009joshyboy How could a crash like that NOT kill the entire crew? If you look at that ship and imagine it having 13 decks (so imagine how small the people are) everyone would be crushed like bugs. I can't understand how everyone isn't splayed open on the deck when Harry and Chakotay find them in the future!
Tranchera 8 months ago 2
@Tranchera it has 15 decks
superstoeptegel1 8 months ago
@superstoeptegel1 Regardless.
Tranchera 8 months ago
@Tranchera Not exactly something you can show on primetime TV. But I do agree, when they recovered Seven she should have had some kind of visible injuries.
CharlesP2009 8 months ago
@Tranchera Not exactly something you can show on prime time television. But I do agree, the crew should have had some kind of visible injuries and should probably have all been piled up at the front of the bridge.
The Mythbusters did a show on airline crashes and showed footage of how violent it can be when a plane impacts the ground, even when relatively parallel to the ground and a heck of a lot slower than Voyager was moving.
CharlesP2009 8 months ago
@Tranchera Acording to ST lore, and engineering, Inertial dampeners would have been used during a crash to negaet the affects of a sever crash landing I think
tinroofbusted 8 months ago
@tinroofbusted The inertial dampeners fail every time they get shot. Considering the ship was "close to structural collapse", I think it's safe to assume something that ALWAYS fails will have already failed. Plus they're all rocking around on the bridge, and that wouldn't happen if inertial dampeners worked as they should anyway.
Tranchera 8 months ago
@Tranchera Hmmmmmmmmmmm Interesting, However, Consider the time delay even if taken a micro second there would still be a body of movement. Interesting point though. I have noticed a certain amount of leeway with the tec manuals references. Case in point, The distruction of the Enterprise D, A whole lot of shaking going on with the saucer landing and the stop was a killer. But it held together fair well considering. and most of the crew survived.
tinroofbusted 7 months ago
@Tranchera they dont fail all the time. when its incoming weapons fire or a shock wave hits the dampers cant compensate 100% for a unknown amount of force so they lag slightly but they are still working. it they failed all the time you could kill the entire crew with 1-2 torpedos shields up or down. we're talking about a ship thats around 1million tons geting kicked around by torpedos in the 100 megaton range
armymatt83 6 months ago
@armymatt83 When I said "they fail all the time", I meant that they SAY that they're failing all the time.
Tranchera 6 months ago
EPIC!!!
MICROKNIGHT3000 9 months ago
So why is "structural collapse" supposed to occur? And which is going to cause more damage- remaining in the vacuum of space or crashing into a planet without intertial dampeners? Clearly they didn't try rerouting power to the structural integrity field.
Sovereign01 9 months ago
@Sovereign01 They re-entered normal space from a hyper-accelerated rate, they were going much faster than they should have been. In real life that probably wouldn't have been a problem, but this isn't real life.
LeeJay07701 8 months ago
@Sovereign01 With a bit of imagination you can sort of see why. They'd just been thrown out of a slipstream conduit going so fast that they'd just about made it back to earth in minutes. After being ejected from the core with their systems down going who knows how fast, the ship was starting to get torn apart. Hard to imagine in a frictionless environment like the vacuum of space -- but there are minute quantities of space dust that fill the vacuum which may not seem like a lot. But at the
cswurt 8 months ago
@Sovereign01 But at the speeds we're talking about, even tiny bits of dust can do devastating damage if accelerated high enough. Force = Mass*Acceleration. Could destroy a city block with a penny if you were able to accelerate it high enough.
If they could land the ship, there'd be no more stress on the already breached hull -- but that'd only be useful if they survived the landing, which they didn't. Couldn't slow down their descent.
cswurt 8 months ago
@cswurt That's what navigational deflector shields are designed to protect against, yet there was no mention of them failing when the ship exited the slipstream.
Sovereign01 6 months ago
Comment removed
Sovereign01 9 months ago
Isnt there some temporal police at starfleet that detects changes in timeline? Also at the end, harry gave a code to knock them out of slip stream. They could had used it again and save another 10 years.
spike378 9 months ago
@spike378
There are two factions. Temporal investigations which investigate temporal anamolies involving Starfleet in current times. And a faction from the future who watch the timeline. If Harry Kim was always destined to reset the timeline, they wouldn't have interfered.
They explain at the end that the slipstream drive was burnt out beyond repair after their trip.
Draknfyre 6 months ago
Is that Michael Jonas behind Tom Paris at the Science Station?
DrHerculesReal 10 months ago
Let me get this straight - you are thrown out of a transwarp conduit at terrific speed - and your solution is to drive straight into a planet - what is essentially a huge ball of rock? Harry's message should have asked them why they took such a dumb decision.
ShoulderAB07 10 months ago 3
@ShoulderAB07 I came to the conclusion that IF they had landed safely, they would have had a CHANCE to survive, rather than being torn apart in space, with NO chance.
internationalvibe 9 months ago
@ShoulderAB07 before the crash the ship will break apart unless they land hence explain crashing into the planet
spike378 9 months ago
@ShoulderAB07 Just some of the frequent lack of reason on part of the writers. Even at ages 9 through 15 I was always calling BS on things that happened on this show.
CharlesP2009 8 months ago
Let me get this straight - you are thrown out of a transwarp conduit at terrific speed - and your solution is to drive straight into a planet - what is essentially a huge ball of rock? Harry's message should have asked them why they took such a dumb decision.
ShoulderAB07 10 months ago
Why didnt they ABANDON SHIP?!
CryoStatus 10 months ago
@CryoStatus Probably because the Intrepid class vessel is designed to land on planets
vh2k 9 months ago
That was the worst thing that could happen to voyager :(
CryoStatus 10 months ago
when i saw this episode i was just really happy that kim and chakotay mange to chance whe happended in future voyager cant die.
firael88 11 months ago
A great scene! I'd like to see this on a movie screen...
More gripping than any given episode of the series.
Well, there was Seven of Nine... :)
flamingmarsupial 11 months ago
@flamingmarsupial More than Year Of Hell? ;-)
everyoneissleeping 11 months ago
@everyoneissleeping Well...
flamingmarsupial 11 months ago
There are lore fights!
Tranchera 11 months ago 2
@DJpob>> I stand corrected.
that's what I get for commenting on shows I've never watched, I suppose.. :)
AngelusDlion 1 year ago
Cool post, thanks. One of my favorite episodes and it's obvious that NOONE aboard survived this crash. The Inertial Dampening Field would have NEVER been able to dilute THIS kind of impact enough for anyone to survive. This is evidenced by the fact that the Structural Intergrity Field also collapsed at the moment of impact, causing decks 9 thru 14 to be deck 10.
Starbuckin 1 year ago
@Starbuckin that always confused me... surely it would be deck 9?
djpob 1 year ago
@Starbuckin
The intertial dampeners are strong enough to counter-act acceleration from 0 to light speed in seconds. SO! They would be strong enough to prevent a ship falling at say 200 kph to 0 in a second. Right?
HeeroYuyDekkers 1 year ago
@HeeroYuyDekkers Actually, when a Starship enters Warp, they do NOT accelerate rapidly (in this space time) they go into a 'bubble' and the space in font of them is compressed and the space behind them stretches. This forces the ship through the 'folding' of spacetime, forward. While in the bubble (the Warp field), they are more or less stationary and are not subjected to the inertia that a ship would encounter if it were REALLY accelerating to faster than light speed in THIS spacetime.
Starbuckin 1 year ago 4
Was Tom Paris getting his landing instructions from Deanna Troi? :D
viperhalberd 1 year ago 61
@viperhalberd At least he tried. She just said, "this machine BROKE!" and gave up. :P
Star841 1 year ago
@viperhalberd LMFAO.
EhlixVanity23 6 months ago
I Never got too worked up about Voyager until I saw this Spectacular Crash. This Starship Crash was so Great and So Spectacular that it Topped the 1965 Crash of the Jupiter 2 from Lost In Space. That other Crash was so Realistic and so Life like that you would Swear that a Plane was coming down !
Roadracer987654321 1 year ago
MAN! Just the way the ship SOUNDS when it's about to crash and burn makes it seem as if you KNOW something is wrong!
internationalvibe 1 year ago
So uhh...structural collapse will occur if they keep the ship in....space...where there is no gravity or other forces. But structural collapse will not occur if they ram the ship into an atmosphere and then crash it on the planet? Did I miss anything, or does that cover this episode's lesson on Star Trek Plot Manipulation?
davethecritter 1 year ago
@davethecritter
"space...where there is no gravity or other "
I don't even know where to begin.....do you think that Gravity just sort of....teleports between celestial bodies...? What about solar winds? Radiation?
Lagamorph 1 year ago
@davethecritter Have to remember they've got a pressurised ship in a vacuum, one blown hatch or weak wall and they'd be in vacuum, that ship would explode, not a pretty picture
TorKelRa 1 year ago
Stupid really to land on a planet when your 'hull integrety' is about to fail. Hell, I'd take hull collapse any day over that excuse of a landing!!
Mueiwark 1 year ago
@Mueiwark bear in mind your hull integrity matters more in a vacuum, what with the lack of air and all that.
futhamucka 1 year ago
The ship again in the smoke. Fire safety regulations are not respected?
YantreYahah 1 year ago
aren't they suppose to go to condition blue before landing the ship? were they planning on just skidding on the ice to a complete stop...what about the landing struts?
ryangar7 1 year ago
@ryangar7 Well let's think about this for a moment....they were literally FALLING OUT OF SPACE! They had NO TIME to do something as MINOR as that! I bet you in the back of everybody's mind on the bridge, they knew that they were going to die. Voyager had no chance of even remotely surviving the crash.
internationalvibe 1 year ago
@ryangar7 The struts would have been ripped free and caused yet more damage to an already critical ship, they kept more from just landing her like that, crew's dead yes but the ship survived for the most part
TorKelRa 1 year ago
I never understood why attempting to crash land and smack into a solid planet was less risky than flying in good old empty space.
compmanio36 1 year ago
@compmanio36 Tuvok said in the beginning that there are hull breaches, they're losing life support and if they don't land they're risking structural collapse.
ChelseatheHolmesian 1 year ago
I love the music here and that sustained horn at the end
Aquien1 1 year ago
Here's a question for you. Why is it that this crash killed the entire crew, where as the crash landing of the saucer section in Generations result in only "light" casualties?
lawrence5584 1 year ago
@lawrence5584 Especially considering that Voyager was designed to land, where as the Enterprise Saucer section wasn't.
lawrence5584 1 year ago
@lawrence5584 probably because Voyager smacked ice at full impulse, but Enterprise-D's saucer gently glided down and struck a large tree or something long after reducing to a slower speed. What Voyager went through was akin to landing a 747 without wings
80stvfan09 1 year ago
@80stvfan09 Speed probably was indeed a factor, though I wouldn't call the Enterprise crash "gentle". Come to think of it, it also has to do with the ship design. voyager is narrow and "arrow head" shaped. Meaning it'd cut through the air like a missile. The saucer module on the otherhand is wide, flat and aerodynamic, meaning it rode the current rather than cut through it. Ergo, when they touched down, Voyager was going a lot faster, thus total casualties.
lawrence5584 1 year ago
@lawrence5584 and also, keep in mind the Enterprise-D still had some systems online, and Voyager was literally falling out of space from an aborted slipstream flight.
80stvfan09 1 year ago
@80stvfan09 but still the fact remains that both ships fell at the same speed, could tom not do the same as Data, reroute auxiliary power to thrusters to level decent? Voyager has RCS thrusters just as Enterprise-D did. the RCS thrusters are the Orange-ish colored marks on the edges of the saucer
bandittdukeboy 1 year ago
@bandittdukeboy depends i guess, is it possible Ent-D's thrusters were enabled via Data's android speed or not. if so, then Tom could never input the variables necessary in time. also, Ent-D had only the saucer section, which probably helped a bit, while Voyager was still carrying her entire self there too, you must admit, having the nacelles and various other components intact did not help the mass nor aerodynamics of Voyager
80stvfan09 1 year ago
@bandittdukeboy what makes you think they were at the same speed? Voyager could've been thrown out of slipstream at an enormous velocity, Tom just steered it for the planet and hoped for the best...
djpob 1 year ago
@80stvfan09 LOL "Voager smacked ice at full impulse." Do you know how fast that is? Do you know what would happen to that little starship if it struck *anything* at that speed? Not this crash -- think an impact of around 1.15 x 10^11 megatons of TNT - a completely vaporized ship. So no, Voyager (as it appears in this shot) could have *maybe* been travelling a few thousand kilometers per hour. Nowhere NEAR full impulse.
TheRogueX 1 year ago
Why does it make the same noise as a T.I.E. Fighter?
burnstagger 1 year ago
screw crashing the ship im jumpin in a shuttle and leavin everybody behind!
WOOHP1993 1 year ago
Hang on I'm going to invite my gerbil to the conversation as well, I think he might have something to add he's seen his fair share of accidents.
liamland25 1 year ago
What was to stop them jumping in the shuttles and flying right out the back door and back into space lol?
boxa1500 1 year ago
how the hell did the saucer section just not shear right off when the ship hit? :L or, at least a dent in the secondary hull? :L :L
mycrofttrek 1 year ago 4
I WANT TO USE "VOYAGER" AS MY SNOW SLED LOL!!!!! :) :D
BlackDragon1542 1 year ago
You guys can shit-pick all you want, it's still a shit cool sequence. Yeah I know it was because of advanced special effects & budgets etc, but Voyager was good for stuff like this, much more than TNG or DS9
gigoer 1 year ago
thumbs up if you wanted to see the thing skid to a stop and not just have the camera covered by some snow
dapenguin2 1 year ago 18
Two words: Escape Pods. :P
lilluku 1 year ago
JANEWAY: We're coming in too fast!
HARRY: We've lost lateral controls.
TUVOK: Don't worry, she'll hold together. (To ship) You hear me baby? Hold together!
TOM: I have rerouted auxiliary power to the lateral thrusters. Attempting to level our descent.
TUVOK: Great, kid! Don't get cocky.
JANEWAY: We're still coming in!
HARRY: Captain, inertial dampeners are...
EVERYONE: SPLAT
TazG2000 1 year ago 3
@TazG2000 hahahah brilliant!
iSid88 1 year ago
What i don't understand is, if future Harry Kim provided a way to disperse the quantam field at the last second, now that voyager has that knowledge, they appear to be able to go "10 years distance" before they begin to destablise, sooo how come they cant reuse the dispersal method future harry kim provided repeatably till they're home.. *frowns*
Lilbluemine 1 year ago
@Lilbluemine Thats a good question. If they can safely reproduce the procedure repeatedly it would work. The only problem i see is the information was gained via unethical means (alternate Kim and Chocotay, although sacrificing themselves too, selfishly exploited countless innocent strangers in unknown ways just to save their personal friends or family and appease guilt). It would be like we using information from people who have been brainwashed into not knowing they were being exploited.
intermender 1 year ago
I love this episode, but a few things bug me. Tuvok states that they risk structural collapse if they don't land the ship. OK, it's going to break apart in space any moment. How is landing, which will probably be a crash landing, a better alternative? The dialogue should have played out something like, "Structural collapse is imminent, the hull is failing!" Now landing the ship makes sense.... the hull is going to break up regardless, might as well be on a planet instead of in space.
Frost3784 1 year ago
I'd like to say I always thought of this, but it actually just popped in my mind:
How was Voyager able to land on planets? Wouldn't its oval shaped saucer be too top heavy and tilt the ship forward?
AngemonRulez 1 year ago
@AngemonRulez I always wondered this too. I figured either the weight of the nacelles balanced out with the saucer or there was some kind of anti-gravity involved to keep the ship from tipping over. However, if that's the case... what happens if the generator fails? Ruuuuun! lol
Frost3784 1 year ago
fk that......i would be in an escape pod.
leelomoe 1 year ago
I hate Class "L" planets.
panhead1219 1 year ago
@panhead1219 This bugged me. Why can't it be a planet with many environments, like Earth, and they just happen to land upon a polar cap like our Antarctica?
Frost3784 1 year ago
@Frost3784 At least in Star Trek there are Earth like planets with many environments. Unlike Star Wars to name on other sci-fi show that does not
PastitsiosGR 7 months ago
That´s very cool
WetKant 1 year ago
Inertial dampeners - why the hell were you offline?
CptPakundo 1 year ago
@CptPakundo I doubt Inertial Dampeners make much of a difference when you make a front end collision "WITH A PLANET" lol
alphathewolf 1 year ago
@potrox420 yea it "crushed" the bottom five decks into one on impact . . . helluva hit indeed.
lucasorelious 1 year ago
yup star fleet really need several things on star ships. Seat belts, non exploding consoles, reliable inertial dampners, weapons that don't go offline at the slightest jolt. If federations starships were cars they'd be mass recalled from some of the eps :)) [/Geek]
Draylath 1 year ago
I think the eeriest part of the video is the sound the ship makes as it's almost falling through space. There's a sound you never hear on Star Trek.
bookworm2007 1 year ago
That was well done, yeah. Good bit of work from the effects team!
Stompy1 1 year ago 2
wouldnt they been better off staying in space instead of crashing into a planet? lol
randomrazr 1 year ago
@randomrazr voyager was losing structual integrity ,it wouldv collapsed in space and they would be dead...if they crash landed they had a chance to survive on the planet.
miloootic 1 year ago
@miloootic
hmm what about escape pods
randomrazr 1 year ago
@randomrazr they would have lost the ship ...no ship = no way to get home.
miloootic 1 year ago
@miloootic
well tom did say they were only a few parcexs away from the alpha quandrant
randomrazr 1 year ago
@randomrazr 1 parcexs=3 lightyears they were close but not close enough
miloootic 1 year ago 2
And to think the Enterprise had a harsh landing
Roadvirus1 1 year ago
picard + kirk done that better :P
R4Akai 1 year ago
How did they not survive that? They skidded on the snow.
stilllookingaway 1 year ago
@stilllookingaway Look at the impact at 0:44. Imagine that's a car.
You'd be lucky to survive that without injuries. Now imagine the same forces acting upon that car, except you're a gerbil. You're going to be thrown across the car at high speeds. Gerbils are pretty tough, you might just be lucky enough to get out of that alive.
Now imagine you're a gerbil sized human in the same car. You're fucked. You are thrown into the back of the seat at 200 kph and you are dead.
Tranchera 1 year ago 13
@Tranchera
Jeez....what's with the fasination with gerbils..
Rob8729 1 year ago 2
@Rob8729 Gerbils are an accepted medium for deep space collision arguments.
Tranchera 1 year ago 18
@Tranchera yeah but cars dont have inertial dampers
translucentorb 1 year ago
@translucentorb Not to be incredibly nerdy (but I so am): the inertial dampeners fail on almost every mission, I think it's safe to assume they'd have already failed here too.
Tranchera 1 year ago 8
@Tranchera
I guess if the Dampeners where offline the whole Bridge Crew would be slammed agains the Mainscreen when they hit the Ground...
Kennykun 1 year ago
@Tranchera yea right before this video starts in the episode they say inertial dampeners were offline XD
lucasorelious 1 year ago
@Tranchera Sod the dampeners, what about buying those poor sods some seatbelts and fuses!?
Thesixthgoon 1 year ago 4
@Tranchera Given that the ship was damaged to the point where they had to perform such a suicidal landing, I'd say that inertial dampers were definately not functioning.
lawrence5584 1 year ago
@translucentorb but they should. Ya hear that toyota?!?
fireforeffect1979 1 year ago
@Tranchera If I am in my car with a gerbil in my butt what happens when I hit a wall? Does my gerbil live? Should I clench my cheeks to shield him or push out a fart to eject him?
krashly71 1 year ago
@krashly71 Richard Gere.. stop youtube commenting and stick to acting :P lol
ammarios 1 year ago
@krashly71 I think the Gerbil's safe, you on the other hand have your means of evacuation blocked, so things don't look to rosy for you.
KnockoffNigeI 1 year ago
@krashly71 If you push out just as you're impacting the wall, and if your farts are strong enough to propel the gerbil at the speeds of a moving car, the gerbil would, to an outside observer, simply appear to "fall out" of your butt.
If you time it right, the gerbil would land on the seat after the car has crashed and all the gerbil would have to worry about is twisted metal, your lifeless body crashing back down upon him, or not being able to open the door due to not having opposable thumbs.
Tranchera 1 year ago
@Tranchera While I agree with you 100% I just have to point out that your comment reminds me of that Old Spice commercial. I half expect you to say, "I'm on a horse." :-D
LibertineDeSade 1 year ago
@Tranchera that's why they have internal gravametric stabilizers.
nxmoparmatt84 1 year ago
@Tranchera Thats why they've got INTERTIAL DAMPNERS
HeeroYuyDekkers 1 year ago
@Tranchera Just as you'd be totally smeared on the back wall of the ship if you didn't have someway of compensating for traveling at warp speeds. I just assume the compensator still worked... Easy hand wave.
AngelusDlion 1 year ago
@AngelusDlion Actually interestingly enough if you watch the episode just before this clip starts Tom says that the inertial dampness are offline. It's just as they get torn from slipstream.
djpob 1 year ago
@AngelusDlion Actually interestingly enough if you watch the episode just before this clip starts Tom says that the inertial dampners are offline. It's just as they get torn from slipstream.
djpob 1 year ago
@stilllookingaway They didnt survive the crash. Chakotay and Harry rescued them in the future..
Ryanscallofduty 1 year ago
When Entering subspace via the slipstream drive theres more that just the force of vaccum acting upon the ship. There not travelling through open space therefore your argument is null
GWtacobutt 1 year ago
Yeah I agree that's dumb to crash, but if they didn't crash, we wouldn't have the episode.
mesalyn1 1 year ago
Agreed, Tran. The first time I watched this it didn't make sense. Movement through space will have no impact on 'structural integrity'. There are no forces acting upon an object moving in a straight line through vacuum, no matter what the speed. It was complete Star Trek Fail.
transdrole 1 year ago
@transdrole Thank you, Tran.
Tranchera 1 year ago
Its sad to think that after all this crew hes been through and how close they were from home, the entire crew probably instantly died at 0:43 seconds
roman7302 1 year ago
I love the way the ship looks at 0:27 as the music plays in the background.
iloldirl 1 year ago 2
finish line
metalbloodworlf 1 year ago
lmfao very bad analogy my friend, your brakes fail you hit a tree? no no no. what she did was the most logical thing to do. using your analogy if your brakes fail your find something that will create a resistance (grass, mud, dirt etc..) on her case its was a "touchdown" on a planet. she did not nosedive into the planet thus did dot "run into a tree" she did what she could with what she had or run the risk of losing everything. any captian would have done the same.
biobinladen 1 year ago
A fitting end to a brainless crew.
CaptainPositron 1 year ago