This whole debacle was in response to an eight year old (trans) girl being allowed into the Girl Scouts. I don't think any doctor is going to sign off for an eight year old to start hormone therapy--something that usually isn't started until it becomes necessary to stop the develop of incorrect secondary sex characteristics that would be incredibly distressing. If little boys can't be in the same bathroom as little girls, doesn't that say more about the sexualization of children than the child?
@MsMsmak There's a difference between locker facilities and mens or womens room. For restroom facilities, there is no casual nudity, and it is quite practical for trans people to use the facilities in peace, as they should be allowed to. In "intimate" situations, where there is routine nudity, or could be a problem with minors, well, that's a different kettle of fish.
@conway7734 Yes, it is. However, as a "moral" issue (as you call it), no one differentiates between those situations. You're essentially defending those people like the Tennessee legislative bigot who would stomp a trans person because of their "percieved" genitals.
So what you're suggesting is that pre op trans men use WOMANS LOCKER rooms. Really? Or that pre op trans women us MENS' LOCKER LOCKER rooms? REALLY?
@MsMsmak and FWIW, this has everything to do with perceived gender, and not self identified gender. No one has the right to call someone out based on their percieved gender; because, as all trans people know, its not theirs to judge.
@MsMsmak Hun, You are right! Discrimination by perception is wrong. Your argument regarding exposure in locker/shower facilities, like a boat full of holes, holds no water. If not anatomically correct, you would remove a moral right guaranteed to each citizen, which no laws may be written that would force incidentally and unwillingly, any exposure of someone with an appendage, before the opposite sex, un-perceived and visibly present. Bathrooms and Tennessee bigotry are not implied on the video
@MyTransInLife Again, are you advocating that trans men use the ladies locker room? Would you be comfortable with that (regardless of how they feel about it)?What you are suggesting is exactly the same treatment of trans people that bigots call out. You are, by definition, defining people by their genitals, and not how they live their lives. I honestly don't think you want to go there.
@MsMsmak Hun, I can certainly understand your lashing out at the uneducated bashers who lash out at what they do not except, selfishly. Though we should push for equal rights, we, as transsexuals, do not push immoral agendas, nor do we act out of selfishness. Ours is a moral desire for respect and acceptance without selfishness. I have been a Transsexual for over 50 years, as well as a Mentor and teacher of how to present ourselves. We work hard to correct ourselves and believe in morals.
@MyTransInLife Who's morals are you citing here? Is it selfish for a trans person to want to feel safe in a restroom or locker room? Would you direct a trans man to use a woman's locker room and subject themselves to being chased out and arrested? Would you subject a trans woman to the same issue, or abuse in a men locker room? Is that the moral argument you are making? Because THAT is the immoral thing to do.
"Desiring" to be transsexual is just about as accurate as "desiring" to be gay. People just really do not have a clue how intrinsic these identifications are to our very being and life in many cases.
@PaintedRavensong Yeah. The desire word intrinically implies a choice; we don't have one. You are very right... these identifications are inherent in our very being and in any event, in many cases are life-or-death issues. Of course, the naysayers simply don't care about OUR life; just their own prejudice.
So many religious people claim to represent the truth but they use scare tactics based on ignorance to back up their argument rather than Deuteronomy or the writings of St. Paul.
@sbflash311 Actually, they are pseudo-religious. St. Paul teaches us not to judge; lest they suffer the same fate as they claim. I prefer to let God sort things out; since He judges knowing the facts. The Deuteronomy thing requires more than the 500 characters we can give on a given response, but sufice it to say that what gifts (and these are gifts) God has given us are indeed gifts from God, and thus are NOT of a damning nature.
@sbflash311 Agreed. And what was going thru my mind watching the video was His admonition not to corrupt one of these little ones. Someone has really added a lot of hatred into that dear soul.
On the other hand, that same admonition would prevent us or anyone from removing the innocence of those little girls (scouts); thus the caution about sharing shower and other private facilities with pre-surgery girls.
Since my daughter has been in Girl Scouts for a long time, I feel that the Girl scouts have tried there best to accept transgendered girls and transsexual girls in there program and make them feel part of the program. This video is simply the opinion of one girl that does not understand transgender and transsexual people. To defend the Girl Scouts, if you present as a girl and act as a girl they accept you into there program with open arms. I think that is great on there part.
This whole debacle was in response to an eight year old (trans) girl being allowed into the Girl Scouts. I don't think any doctor is going to sign off for an eight year old to start hormone therapy--something that usually isn't started until it becomes necessary to stop the develop of incorrect secondary sex characteristics that would be incredibly distressing. If little boys can't be in the same bathroom as little girls, doesn't that say more about the sexualization of children than the child?
casanovabambi 1 month ago
Comment removed
MyTransInLife 1 month ago
So in your view, trans men who haven't had a phalloplasy should still be in the womens room. Right.
MsMsmak 1 month ago
@MsMsmak There's a difference between locker facilities and mens or womens room. For restroom facilities, there is no casual nudity, and it is quite practical for trans people to use the facilities in peace, as they should be allowed to. In "intimate" situations, where there is routine nudity, or could be a problem with minors, well, that's a different kettle of fish.
conway7734 1 month ago
@conway7734 Yes, it is. However, as a "moral" issue (as you call it), no one differentiates between those situations. You're essentially defending those people like the Tennessee legislative bigot who would stomp a trans person because of their "percieved" genitals.
So what you're suggesting is that pre op trans men use WOMANS LOCKER rooms. Really? Or that pre op trans women us MENS' LOCKER LOCKER rooms? REALLY?
MsMsmak 1 month ago
@MsMsmak and FWIW, this has everything to do with perceived gender, and not self identified gender. No one has the right to call someone out based on their percieved gender; because, as all trans people know, its not theirs to judge.
MsMsmak 1 month ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@MsMsmak Hun, You are right! Discrimination by perception is wrong. Your argument regarding exposure in locker/shower facilities, like a boat full of holes, holds no water. If not anatomically correct, you would remove a moral right guaranteed to each citizen, which no laws may be written that would force incidentally and unwillingly, any exposure of someone with an appendage, before the opposite sex, un-perceived and visibly present. Bathrooms and Tennessee bigotry are not implied on the video
MyTransInLife 1 month ago
@MyTransInLife Again, are you advocating that trans men use the ladies locker room? Would you be comfortable with that (regardless of how they feel about it)?What you are suggesting is exactly the same treatment of trans people that bigots call out. You are, by definition, defining people by their genitals, and not how they live their lives. I honestly don't think you want to go there.
MsMsmak 1 month ago
@MsMsmak Hun, I can certainly understand your lashing out at the uneducated bashers who lash out at what they do not except, selfishly. Though we should push for equal rights, we, as transsexuals, do not push immoral agendas, nor do we act out of selfishness. Ours is a moral desire for respect and acceptance without selfishness. I have been a Transsexual for over 50 years, as well as a Mentor and teacher of how to present ourselves. We work hard to correct ourselves and believe in morals.
MyTransInLife 1 month ago
@MyTransInLife Who's morals are you citing here? Is it selfish for a trans person to want to feel safe in a restroom or locker room? Would you direct a trans man to use a woman's locker room and subject themselves to being chased out and arrested? Would you subject a trans woman to the same issue, or abuse in a men locker room? Is that the moral argument you are making? Because THAT is the immoral thing to do.
MsMsmak 1 month ago
"Desiring" to be transsexual is just about as accurate as "desiring" to be gay. People just really do not have a clue how intrinsic these identifications are to our very being and life in many cases.
PaintedRavensong 1 month ago
@PaintedRavensong Yeah. The desire word intrinically implies a choice; we don't have one. You are very right... these identifications are inherent in our very being and in any event, in many cases are life-or-death issues. Of course, the naysayers simply don't care about OUR life; just their own prejudice.
Hugs dear Mic,
conway7734 1 month ago
We're talking about a 7-year-old child.
sbflash311 1 month ago
So many religious people claim to represent the truth but they use scare tactics based on ignorance to back up their argument rather than Deuteronomy or the writings of St. Paul.
sbflash311 1 month ago
@sbflash311 Actually, they are pseudo-religious. St. Paul teaches us not to judge; lest they suffer the same fate as they claim. I prefer to let God sort things out; since He judges knowing the facts. The Deuteronomy thing requires more than the 500 characters we can give on a given response, but sufice it to say that what gifts (and these are gifts) God has given us are indeed gifts from God, and thus are NOT of a damning nature.
Hugs,
conway7734 1 month ago
@conway7734 Jesus Himself always used a compassionate approach towards people, especially little children.
sbflash311 1 month ago
@sbflash311 Agreed. And what was going thru my mind watching the video was His admonition not to corrupt one of these little ones. Someone has really added a lot of hatred into that dear soul.
On the other hand, that same admonition would prevent us or anyone from removing the innocence of those little girls (scouts); thus the caution about sharing shower and other private facilities with pre-surgery girls.
Hugs dear,
conway7734 1 month ago
Since my daughter has been in Girl Scouts for a long time, I feel that the Girl scouts have tried there best to accept transgendered girls and transsexual girls in there program and make them feel part of the program. This video is simply the opinion of one girl that does not understand transgender and transsexual people. To defend the Girl Scouts, if you present as a girl and act as a girl they accept you into there program with open arms. I think that is great on there part.
cathy308308 1 month ago