Prix de l'Arc de triomphe 2011 - Danedream - Equidia Live

[lazerus121]

i totally agree with what you said about so you think,, should of been more handily placed then he would of maybe got 2nd< but the winner wasnt getting beat off anything, best ever time in the arc, i was very impressed........ do you all think frankel would of stayed..... thats the question

[lakeygeorge]

You must admit they did sort of screw so you think up.

[MrConnolly25]

I felt a little bit sorry for Dandream in japan but feel the form of the Arc is pointless and have to say Dandream fluked the Arc.I know it was a record time and clearly Dandream is very good but she is not a horse id back in a group1 unless she was a big price.

[carlostietar]

Great career, record of the career, impressive, great merit of the second and third position. The sister of Shareta, who has been the second, this in españa, concretely in a prestigious stud that is called CORTIÑAL.

SHARETA´S SISTER I KNOW IT´S NAME PETTIT CADEAU, ALREADY THEY HAVE GOT OFFERS FOR THE PURCHASE OF THIS HORSE.

[MrThemoker]

we will se if the form stands up when she runs in the japan cup on sunday although st nicholas abbey has franked the form in the breeders cup turf as since lets wait and se and hopefully we will se her in england next year.

[SoulSurvivor79]

@thomasishere09 Hey mate SYTs a kiwi horse!

[MrConnolly25]

Still cannot even begin to understand how Danedream won the Arc let alone the time achieved in doing so.Am i the only person who thinks purely on a form basis that something is amiss?

[GBeret83]

With part of Danedream's ownership being Japanese, it's not surprising they've chosen to skip the Breeders Cup in favor of the Japan Cup. But I believe the $3 million dollar BC Turf or $2 million dollar BC F&M Turf looked like easier pickings for her. The European horses haven't fared particularly well in the Japan Cup over the past few seasons. Purple Moon 9th in 08'. Conduit 4th in 09'. Cirrus Des Aigles 9th, Joshua Tree 10th, Dandino 11th in 10. Difficult to beat the Japanese horses in Tokyo.

[Tenorliebe]

@GBeret83 The german horse Lando won easely there with Michael Roberts on board!

[morkoan70]

'Ratings guru and Timeform assessor Gary Crispe reckons So You Think put up an outstanding performance under the circumstances and would have done better racing to his normal pattern. Top-liners don't need pacemakers. Top jockeys make up for bad barriers.'

[morkoan70]

@daletewes ....He beat all the males and favorites, and only lost to the lighter weight fillies!!!!

[guitarlegend32]

@morkoan70 Dancing Brave and STS came from miles back in thier Arc wins,winning brilliantly so don't go making superlatives about what is a totally over rated animal.If he was anything special he'd have won - he ain't.

[MrCaspa21]

@guitarlegend32 Did STS and Dancing Brave run at the back in their previous starts? Pretty sure they did, they raced to a pattern they liked. SYT was ridden at the exact opposite end of the field where he enjoys and still beat the majority of Europe's best yet somehow he is overrated? If STS or Dancing Brave had have been made to race at the front of the pack and kicked on and won your argument would stand, as it is you are comparing completely different situations.

[guitarlegend32]

@MrCaspa21 Unfortunately for your argument the answer is no.STS and DB were always midfield type of animals - look up their races on Youtube,freely available.And he is absolutely overrated because we were led to believe he would win every race by 10 lengths and be in the category of the above-mentioned greats.SYT is a very good animal but nothing outstanding.The winner of this race was 5 lengths ahead of him with 4 furlongs to go and beat him by 6.He was hardly flying down the home straight.

[guitarlegend32]

@MrCaspa21 Flying down the home straight is DB mowing down 6 multiple group 1 winners in single furlong covering the final one in 10.2 seconds -faster than any furlong covered by the excellent Black Caviar in her comeback race by more than half a second.He would have got extremely close to Danedream possibly catching her.SYT would only have been second at best no matter the circumstances of his race.

[MrCaspa21]

@guitarlegend32 The only race i've seen of STS is the Arc win, and I haven't seen any of Dancing Braves performances, I am going to look up that Arc win though. Most of the hype about SYT was created by Coolmore, there were a few people, such as Bart and Steven Arnold who said he will be right up there with the best in Europe, so depending on who you talk to depends on if he has been overhyped. In reference to Black Caviars time, if you watch the race she has not been asked for anything at all..

[MrCaspa21]

@guitarlegend32 ..It is barely more than a training gallop for her, if or when she is pushed by another horse you will see a lot more impressive times, possibly in the 9s by looking at what she has done so far.

[guitarlegend32]

@MrCaspa21 Maybe she is good enough to beat his fraction afterall she is a sprinter.Dancing Brave did it after 1m3f's though.

[MrCaspa21]

@guitarlegend32 Fair point, did you manage to find those videos? I couldn't find them on youtube but elsewhere on the internet might have them, they are worth a watch

[Racingwriter85]

@guitarlegend32 horses in Australia, Hong Kong, Japan and Europe are all by the same sires, and out of mares by the same sire...do you really think that any certain area has the best horses, and another area has the worst?? Australia produces the better sprinters because our classic and highest prize money events are 2 yo sprints ( and these are looked at most closely for Stallion Prospects) where Europe places classic status on middle distance / stayers so your stayers as a whole are superior..

[MrCaspa21]

@guitarlegend32 Watched Dancing Braves win in the Arc, was quite incredible. The 2 best run from home would be Efficient in the 2006 VRC Derby and Magic Cape in the 2007 Wellington Stakes, if you can find the videos I really do recommend watching them.

[morkoan70]

@daletewes I agree .... He Is a efficient high speed cruiser who has enough surging momentum, speed and heart to see him home on the straight ahead of finishers with a good turn of foot. In the arc at longchamp, the ground was fast, and sitting back in the field on the straight thinking u can make up ground on fast finishers on a fast surface was madness. I'm very baffled by it but he did will given his handling n circumstance. He beat all the males and favorites, and only lost to the lighter

[daletewes]

The ride on So You Think should be questioned,i cant believe how ordinary it was,it is not a sit and sprint horse,never has been,it needs to eyeball the leader early in the straight and let its will to win take over.

[morkoan70]

@guitarlegend32 moron? Syt should have come 2nd but for Heffernans tentative ride in the premier middle distance race in Europe, if not the world. The only moron is yourself, because you feel impelled to insult people who enjoy talking about the horses dear to them. Go and grow some diplomacy. Your a bloody infant and your embarrassing yourself ....

[guitarlegend32]

@morkoan70 Is that the best you can do?I take note that you have absolutely no argument whatsoever about the FACTS that I stated.Makybe Diva can no way be rated above Vinnie so therefore is clearly not the best stayer of the last 20 years.'Grow some diplomacy'???Your bias to Australian racing is embarrasing and you've had 1 horse in donkey's years that has even been capable of competing here.Dream on.

[morkoan70]

break and keep ahead with safety. He is rarely run this way in Europe because he is not fit enough and his camp is too tentative with him. He has had a good Campaign but there approach has failed him where it matters: prince of wales stakes and the Arc. But that said he was the first male and 4 yr old at that over line. He beat most of europe best. So I'm proud of him, but I feel sorry for him because his camp is letting him down slightly.

[guitarlegend32]

@morkoan70 ...of the race,getting the splits when she needed them.Vinnie had to come 5 wide and she only beat him 1.5 lengths.Well according to the handicapper that would make Vinnie 2lbs superior - or are you going to argue with your own handicapper?You clearly have the top sprinters but we have always bred for stamina i.e 1 mile + ,so your really welcome to that.Middle distances is the Holy Grail and Aus is lagging way behind.

[morkoan70]

If syt beat Sarafina (famed for her turn of foot) to the line with 8 extra pounds I don't think u can argue syt lacks speed. I know racing and training style is different in europe. But in australia, when he was far far stronger and fitter, he was typically run close to the lead at a very high cruising speed, breaking away at the straight with enough momentum and distance between his challengers that even horses with very good turn of foot could not catch him. He had enough continued speed to b

[golferandy82]

I only watch european racing when australian horses are over there and im sicking of watching this bullshit cheating crap with pacemakers it tried to help SYT i know, But in the eclipse the stablemate gave the lead up to workforce and all he was there to do was keep SYT in a pocket its bullshit

[morkoan70]

So stop accusing others of talking rubbish and assess your own. But no doubt Europe dominates the middle distances ESP 2400. However SYT is still the best 10f specialist on earth. He has only lost at that distance once, when he was unfit and Ryan Moore and the pace maker burnt him....I hope he runs in champions stake this month. I'm looking forward to his clash with Nathaniel.

[morkoan70]

So stop accusing others of talking rubbish and assess your own. But no doubt Europe dominates the middle distances ESP 2400. However SYT is still the best 10f specialist on earth. He has only lost at that distance once, when he was unfit and Ryan Moore and the pace maker burnt him....I hope he runs in champions stake this month. I'm looking forward to his clash with Nathaniel.

[morkoan70]

@guitarlegend32 australian horses are improving? We have the best sprinter on earth, black cavier. We are also recognized fog consistently producing the best sprinters on earth. We had the best stayed of the last twenty years, in mikabye diva, a winner of three Melbourne cups. Syt (who should have ridden second, and is not the horse he was) might not be a Njinsky, but Phar Lap and Carbine certainly were. Some American trainers who saw Phar lap said he was as good as the all time great Man o War

[guitarlegend32]

@morkoan70 Improving over middle distances moron.Read what I wrote.What makes you think Makybe(I was always was too well handicapped)Diva is the best stayer of the last 20 years?Yeats clearly underperformed in Australia - though I doubt you'll aknowledge.Winning 4 God Cups is an amazing acheivement and if Makybe Diva ran HERE he would have beat her giving her weight.Also how do rate a horse?The ONLY way is form - no?Now let's see.Didn't Vinnie Row give her 5lbs?She got the absolute run of....

[Tenorliebe]

The best horse in 2011 comes from Germany!

[thesn000p]

Sarcasm Warning: I'm pretty sure Silver Pond would have tied 2nd if he was trained and ridden by Aussies (who are better at everything) and run closer up to the place. Because he was dead last at the turn (2L behind SYT) and finished 2L behind SYT. So technically he, liked SYT, finished "strongest" and got the "worst" ride. As did Sarafina...but I guess those horses aren't allowed excuses. Silver Ponds trainer ruined him because he used to look much fitter when racing in weaker company

[Racehorsewatcher]

As for your need to slag off horses that have been dead for decades: Kingston Town was a gelding true, but Tulloch was not, nor was Gunsynd who also ran over 50 times. Racehorses should race, not run 10 times & then go off to stud. What is the point? There was top horse in Aus a while back called Red Anchor who was very good & was retired to stud after 14 races. He isn't considered a champion. Horse can do great things, outstanding things, but need to do it over a no. of years to be a champ.

[guitarlegend32]

@Racehorsewatcher Are you going to answer my question with your encyclopedic knowledge?How many sprinters can run that fast let alone at the end of 1m4f's?One of the most popular and adored horses ever.Come on it ain't hard but according to you ain't a great.

[Racehorsewatcher]

@guitarlegend32 Did you even read what I wrote? Or are you so determined to live your life vicariously through a racehorse that you ignored it. I said I wasn't talking about any specific horse but rather making a comment about what constitutes a champion - in any sport - not just horse racing, & that is unless they compete over a no. of years against all new competitors, they can't be called a champion. Then I gave examples of horses to illustrate. Talented & champion are not the same thing.

[guitarlegend32]

@Racehorsewatcher So Kingston Town is a great horse because he raced regularly for a long period of time at the top level but Sea Bird,Dancing Brave(the animal who destroyed the best Arc field in 40 in years,covering the final furlong in 10.2 seconds) and STS are not great because they didn't do it for long enough or come back from injury!!!What total and utter shit.STS is insured for $130 million.He has a record totally unique in 300 years of the thouroughbred - oh sorry he's not Australian!

[guitarlegend32]

@Racehorsewatcher I think we know that it comes down to nationality - don't go off the subject by saying ALL sports,this is a racing site.Australian horses are no doubt improving but particularly the middle distance horses are still lagging behind.While SYT has done well this year,we were all told that he would win every race by 10 lengths but has only proved a average 130 rated middle distance horse that we get regularly over here.The second coming is BC-she better be superior than SYT.

[TorTasKB]

What a horse! Last year her price was just 9.000 €. The owners paid 100.000 € some days before the race only to be permitted to start! Very couraged! Congratulations!

[Racehorsewatcher]

Kingston Town raced 41 times for 30 wins, 5 seconds, 2 thirds. He won races from 1200 mtrs to 3200 mtrs. He won 1200 mtrs at 1.09.5 1600 mtrs at 1.34.5, 3 Cox Plates (2000mtrs), Tancred Stakes 2400 mtrs, Sydney Cup 3200 mtrs. He raced for four years, & had to return to racing from two extended lay offs due to injury to suspensory ligaments. That's a great horse. Tulloch raced 53 times for 36 wins, 12 seconds, 4 thirds & had two years off due to injury. Another great horse. 8-10 races too few.

[guitarlegend32]

@Racehorsewatcher Name me a Austrailian horse(of which you are synically bias)who has run 10.2 seconds for the final furlong of a 1m4f race,being eased 50 yards from the line(never been acheived before or since).P.s obviously it ain't SYT,Tulloch or the GELDING that was Kingston Town(if he wasn't he'd have been at stud).Oh and by the way he only ran 10 times-but considered one of the greatest horses of all time.You need your head examining to think he and many others weren't 'great'.

[Racehorsewatcher]

@guitarlegend32 Settle down brother. First you say my comment is "garbage", then you say I need "my head examined". If you want to have a sensible discussion, I'm happy to participate, but save that language for the trolls. Now, I'm not suggesting anything about any specific horse, I'm saying unless a horse performs at a top level for a no. of seasons, against all comers then it can't be classified as great. But I grant you using "great" was wrong, what I should have said was a great champion.

[ShotFromTheHip]

Got to disagree with that, Sea the Stars has to be considered a great, and he had what 9 runs? But 6 straight group ones from a mile to a mile and half does confirm greatness in my book...

[Racehorsewatcher]

@ShotFromTheHip It's too easy to have things go your way when you are in a purple patch. You need to perform at a top level for a number of seasons to truly prove yourself.

[Racehorsewatcher]

Having 8-10 races in an entire career, is like winning a couple of grand slam tennis tournaments, or two golf majors, and then saying you're an all time great. Keep playing and beating all comers for a number of years, keeping winning major tournaments, then you can claim to be great.

[Racehorsewatcher]

As for all time great horses. A horse that has only 8 or 10 starts in its whole career, cannot in my view be considered a great horse. This is typical of European horses. A great horse, like a great sports person, needs to take on all comers over several years. Try racing for 4-5 years, 8-10 preparations, 40-50 races, taking on all comers, in all conditions, at a variety of distances, overcoming injuries, making comeback after comeback, then you have a great horse. Very common in Australia.

[golferandy82]

Just to say you get hugh Bowman or steven arnold riding the horse again in europe it would race better Australian jokeys are the best, they race in big fields all the time unlike. ryan moore who slaughtered so you think in a 6 horse field.

[wacmedia]

The draw is in important factor in this race. I think So You Think would have been close with a better draw. Still the winner has won 3 Group Ones by large distances.

[Sparkfire95]

So klasse die Danedream!

[janoschvip]

wonder horse beste deutsche stute was je dar war

[ShotFromTheHip]

@drofheim

Born to Sea has only won a listed race (granted on debut), but it weren't the strongest listed race ever run! Bit to early to be getting carried away with him!

[drofheim]

Wonder what lame excuses they will come up with when SYT gets thrashed by Frankel and Born To Sea?

[Racehorsewatcher]

@drofheim I was not at all surprised by the result today, I didn't think SYT would place because he's been handled badly. Sadly, we won't see SYT at his best while he is still trained by the same outfit. Horse always looks like he's stuck in 2nd gear. And if he gets more rides like today, he'll perform the same.

[guitarlegend32]

@Racehorsewatcher What garbage.While he didn't get a good ride that ain't the jockey's fault more the owner/trainer who would definately be giving orders.What on earth makes anyone think he's worse over here?He's rated 133 in Aus and rated 133 in Europe.The Aus rating came from Gary Crispe,a well respected Australian ratings guru.Fact is he's racing far better horses.If the Aus middle distance horses were anything special they wouldn't stay in Aus,regardless what the prize money is like.....

[guitarlegend32]

@Racehorsewatcher ....because the pure prestige of winning in Europe means a great deal more to their stud value than winning a lot on the course.Look again at the race 1min49secs - he's 5 lengths or so behind the winner and gets beat over 6.If he was ridden closer to the pace he would have expended too much energy getting there from a bad draw so under no circumstance would he have won.The winner could have carried 6lb more and still won comfortably.While I don't particularly like Coolmore....

[guitarlegend32]

@Racehorsewatcher ...or O'Brien but he does know how to train a racehorse - his Group 1 record defies beleif and if the horse was that good he'd adapt comfortably to a different way of training.Fact is he's a very good horse but not a great one and while it was admirable to race here his fraitlies have been exposed.How the hell can a horse lose it's speed?And how do you know O'Briens doing anything different to Cumming's?Are you watching his work?Grasping at straws.

[Racehorsewatcher]

@guitarlegend32 I appreciate your detailed reply. I can't agree that O'Brien is in the class of Cummings as a trainer. That, of course, is a matter of opinion. But as i've said the horse has never looked right since being in Europe & based on those performances what you & others have said about him would be right. If Cummings had trained him the whole time & Aus jockey had ridden him, you would have seen a different horse. That, too, is a matter of opinion & we'll never know. C'est la vie.

[Racehorsewatcher]

@guitarlegend32 I thought the owners treated Cummings shabbily to make a few extra quid. They were already multi-millionaires but the lure of extra cash overwhelmed any sense of decency they had towards the fellow who had found them the best horse they ever had. So the fact that SYT has not performed to their expectations would surely decrease his stud fees & make less money for those owners. Serves them right, for not at least giving Cummings the opportunity to train the horse in Europe.

[golferandy82]

@Racehorsewatcher What do you mean he hasnt perfromed tho their expectations he has won three group 1s in six starts, a group 3, and should have won the prince of wales( if not for a bad ride). He ran fourth in the WORLDS best race and should have at least run second( once again not a great ride) . hes a 8 time group 1 winner and didnt even race as a three year old in the autumn in Aus. hes the most valuable horse in the world at the moment.

[guitarlegend32]

@golferandy82 Since you mentioned that 'he is the most valuable horse in the world at the moment', I would like your reasons as to why.

[john131349]

@golferandy82 lol you gotta be joking, hes a big fat boat of a horse who lacks the electric accelleration that the truely great (Dancing Brave/Mill Reef/Nijinski/El Gran Senor/Mtoto/Frankel) have, great horses can win from bad draws because they have the gears to get into a challenging position, check out Pebbles in her breeders cup turf win

[rcschumann]

@john131349 Don't forget Secretariat, whose monster turn of foot meant no draw or position on the track was considered "bad". At the Derby he circled the large field on the outside from dead last, and then basically romped to the finish, while Sham 3 lengths behind was being whipped senseless! I'm glad you mentioned Nijinsky. What a temperamental, powerful, awesome beast he was - in my opinion, the best to ever race in Europe, and one of the greatest of all time.

[guitarlegend32]

@rcschumann He was a superb specimin schumann but I don't think he was the best we've seen,afterall Piggott and O'Brien couldn't split him or Sir.Ivor or incidently Golden Fleece.That was from O'Briens biography written by his wife prior to the great mans death.I would say who I think was the best but I don't want to give away the answer to Racehorsewatcher!All the same I would put about 5 above Nijinsky.

[john131349]

@guitarlegend32 Lester always said Crepello would have been the best ever but for dodgy shins, Alledged was no slouch either

[golferandy82]

@john131349 yeh hes heaps bad. hes beat snow fairy multiple worldwide group 1 winner, won dual cox plates and would have won a third not done since kingston town. lacks accelaration came from last to fourth in the straight with a stop start run yep hes definately a FAT BOAT OF A HORSE.

[tarvinramcurn]

what happen to sarafina i think that she was not well prepare

[round999444]

It is an uncanny member.

[ShotFromTheHip]

I knew I had seen something quite special, but thought the actual form of the race was very suspect. On the day the best horse won, and won very easily. Would I back her to confirm the form with some of the (before the race) high profile horses? It would have to depend on the prices, but she's a very very good Arc winner, and I don't think that can be debated!

[ShotFromTheHip]

Personally I don't think the form is worth a penny... I got the impression the big guns were to interested in covering each opposed to actually watching what was going on in front. Galikova was unlucky as she got checked quite a few times on the turn and OP had to pull her in her run at least twice.

However, regardless of what the form was the performance of Danedream was still exceptional! In some respects, I felt the race was quite similar to this years 2000 guineas, after the race ... TBC

[turfblogger]

Phänomenale Leistung!

Danke Danedream – danke Andrasch Starke!

Seit Star Appeal im Jahr 1975 das erste in Deutschland trainierte Pferd, das diese inoffizielle Weltmeisterschaft der Galopper für sich entscheiden konnte.

[morkoan70]

I'm not convinced the beat horses underperformed. We are forgetting the ground was very quick due to the unseasonable heat. In think the tactics was the cause of their failure. But I agree, syt rarely looked as fit and momentous as he did in oz! But im convinced even if syt was fit and well ridden the horse would have come in second!

[Racehorsewatcher]

@morkoan70 I agree that it's impossible to say whether SYT would have won today if he was trained & ridden properly. But you have to remember he easily won the Cox Plate in 2009 (premier WFA race in AUS) as technically a 2YO & came very close to breaking the race record. The fact that this race was won by a 3YO fillie, who can rarely beat older horses at WFA in AUS, plus the fact she was 27/1 & 2nd horse was 71/1 suggests it's an odd result. Still, that's racing.

[Racehorsewatcher]

(from previous) for the jockey to have moved the horse up into at least the first half of the field, if not the first six. By the time they reached the straight it was all over. The owners of SYT sold him for stud fees, now he has not performed up to their expectations because he has been handled poorly. Their stud fees would have held up better if they left him in AUS or at least under Cummings with an AUS jockey. Serves them right. Unfortunately race fans never got to see the true horse.

[GBeret83]

Snow Fairy finishing 3rd and So You Think finishing 4th were the only 2 of the so-called "high profile" horses that ran anywhere near what they're capable of. The list of high profile disappointments in this race, I.E., Sarafina, Workforce, Nakayama Festa, Galikova, and Reliable Man to name just a few, is almost as compelling a story for this as Danedream actually winning the race, IMO.

[GBeret83]

Danedream had been looking really good in Germany in her last 2 G1 win's over there. She was 5+ length's better than Scalo in the G1 Preis Von Berlin, and some 6+ length's better than Night Magic and Joshua Tree in the G1 Preis Von Baden. But hats off to Dandedream for this incredible Arc run and win!! She took her talent to a whole new level by setting the Arc track record, and she was just frankly much better than horses that a lot of people thought were out of her league.

[morkoan70]

Being australian I wanted syt to win, but according to their obvious plan given the poor gate and 12f question marks, Heffernan was too cautious to conserve his energy, and on a fast track you cannot make up so much ground on a long straight. However, he was the first male over the line, and would have definitely been second with better track position. Disappointing ride but he had a good result considering-he made up several lengths from near last and beat all the 3 and 4 yold males. But all

[morkoan70]

I watched her lead up 2400m g1 races in Germany on a variety of ground types, and noticed how powerful her turn of foot was, and being a filly she would have light weight, so I placed a bet thinking she was a chance. I placed a bet of 40 dollars, and with her odds at $41, I won $1600. I'm surprised she was overlooked actually.

[XxXMrBlackHawkXxX]

in Hoppegarten hat Danedream auch schon soo super gewonnen

Klasse ritt

[Itradebetfair]

Wow Danedream! I didnt see that one comming!

[Bukattingi1]

I don't understand this result. Not just Danedream winning, but the proximity of the second, and even the third horse.

[LilyClaraa]

M A G N I F  I Q U E !

[kelletman]

Great run by Snow Fairy from a wide draw, does not look like any hard luck stories, it is hard to give ground and wgt to 3 year olds this time of the year, the winner won well and SF did best of the older horses.

[zwinkmann]

Unglaublich!!! Und: Achtet auf Andrasch, was für ein genialer Ritt. Echt was zum

geniessen. Diesen Riesenerfolg gönne ich Ihm echt!

[newchamberlainreport]

It's confirmed they are shipping Danedream to Churchill for The Breeders Cup!

[MrJoey1498]

what a bad ride on so you think!!! never had a chance..well done the winner though impressive

[MWEIGHTCHAMP]

outstanding



[elitehengst69]

Gänsehaut



[mark1995cfc]

I wonder how people actually saw this coming, still he won it well

[RichieMinusHawtin]

FORMIDABLE DANEDREAM!!!