Im a Baptist, Non-Calvinist. But I love Ian Paisley, and the Free Presbyterian Church is doing a good job in spreading. Ian Paisley's sermon on LSD, and 60 Minutes to go are preached in a manner that you would not know he was a Calvinist. Matter of fact in one sermon he says that he believes that "God would save every person in the building and more." That is not a term you hear from a Calvinistic Baptist. Most CB are very HyperCalvinist.
calvinism isnt a cult, its teaching of the truths of the Bible. If Jesus died for everyone, believers and non-believers, then no one would go to Hell. That would contradict Matthew 7:14, "few there be that find it"
@achelgeson93 Hm, I don't have to accept the gift of grace (my responsibility- repentance, faith, obedience, trust, etc all under the umbrella of belief) if I don't want to. Does that mean that Christ did not die for me. If you would study Scripture as the Bureans did it would be obvious that Christ did die for all men and it is not God's will that any perish. But if man refuses to obey John 3:36 then he still goes to Hell even tho God fulfilled His loving responsibility.
@CMCHAPEL The problem of Calvinism is the un Biblical teaching that God UN-CONDITIONALLY chooses those that are saved. However, the Bible teaches that God chooses according to His Word - this involves man's responsibility named above - otherwise the Bible contradicts itself which is impossible. The other problem with Calvinism is that God's sovereignty is confused with his will. It is not God's will that any perish. However, many perish but God is still sovereign.
Calvinism is a heresy........It's distinctives are unbiblical.....salvation is conditional on faith.......atonement is unlimited ........and grace is resistible. Acts 16:31 1 John 2:2 Luke 13:34
@willpower242 salvation is conditional on faith, yes. But we learn in Ephesians 2:8 that this faith is a gift from God, and it is NOT of ourselves. In other words, you have done nothing to gain your salvation, only the grace of God has spared you. No one "chooses" to believe the gospel. When you hear the gospel, you either believe, or you do not. It is not a matter of a carnal decision of the mind, it is a matter of hearing the voice of our Savior, and believing on him.
@bengphoenix if we are robotic idiots then all the commandments in Scripture are unnecessary. The fact that we are dead in sin has NOTHING to do with the fact that we are created in God's image and do have the ability to think and reason and respond to God's Word initiated by God's call (God calls ALL men to repentance.) You contradict yourself since when you believe you are choosing if you understand the original meaning of the word "believe" which most do not have a clue.
@CMCHAPEL Did I say we were robotic idiots? Did any Calvinist say this? No, you imply this out of ignorance. You dont understand, so you slander. It's ok, I'm sure God has given you other gifts.
I have also asked the question: Why would God call the entire nation of Israel his elect when they have rejected Him as their Messiah? "As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the fathers' sakes. [Rom 11:28]. In this instance God's elect are the unsaved Jews. It fits in perfectly with Matt 8:11-12 " But the children of the kingdom shall be cast out into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth."
Calvinists believe that Jesus would have been a failure if He had to die for the sins of all mankind while most of them are going to end up in hell. I have asked the following question many times and not ONE Calvinist has answered me to date. The question is: Who said this: "Then I said, I have laboured in vain, I have spent my strength for nought, and in vain: yet surely my judgment is with the LORD, and my work with my God. [Isa 49:4]
We can be cut off if we do not abide in faith. Rom 11:20-22
“Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou Standest By FAITH. Be not high minded, but fear:
For if God spared not the natural branches, TAKE HEED LEAST HE Also SPARE NOT THEE.
Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, IF Thou CONTINUE IN His goodness: Otherwise thou ALSO Shalt Be CUT OFF.
LOL! Some of these arguments the comments are posing are very... silly? For a lack of a better term, I'll use that. Some of us, in attempt to supposedly "Refute" Calvinism, end up standing as a proponent for it. Well played, brothers. -God Bless!
My only point is dont be folled into beliving men who are faulty, This is the verry reason we dont go to church, to follow opinions on the words of God. We read then we follow christs words.There is no explinations of what we read as to add any explination to what is self explanitory is a lie. All scripture is self explainitory and to say it needs expilination is a lie. I say moist churches are a front for explinations for money. To say jesus needed men to explain anything for him is a lie.
We dont need no more then what chrsit told us all, to add to it is well, fake and lies, like paul,saul.he added to it, he put more to it, he also asked questions to make it seem truth,but it was nothing more then adding to what jesus said. Jesus saves not paul and not Calvinism. Read jesus and what he said, not paul, not saul and not Calvinism. Your own soul depends on what christ said and only what he said,follow christ only.
Here's a good question. How many Calvinistic Evangelists are there at this present time? Think about it, how many do you know? No wonder the Southern Baptists are worried.
after resurrection Jesus appeared to his disciples and breathed on them so that they are filled with Holy spirit (john last chapter). But the presence of Holy spirit did not take them to do the Godly work they were called for. They went back fishing. But gradually they got the power and they were able to win their will and do Gods will that the Holy spirit encouraged them to live. I am telling all this because people should not be mislead. I am not a scholar, am just a believer in gospel.
But to realize that my flesh is weak I have to fall many times and I was prone to leave the God I loved.
There is always a human element in sanctification, when Jesus changed water to wine he asked the servants to first fill the Jars with water and then he did the hard part of changing it to wine. So I need to do the easy thing which is accepting that I am weak and my faith is like this water but asking God to convert it to a precious wine. Please don't get believe because 30% of scholars do.
Just because calvinism is accepted by everyone, I cannot accept it. In my personal testimony I kept struggling with sin even after receiving holy spirit. God does not take our free will when he saves us. If God wanted this then he could have made us born without free will so that we can do his will all the time. God wants us to have victory over our free will and live with the power of holy spirit not by our power. Once i realized that my flesh is weak I truely started living a Godly life.
@sreedesi Our will apart from God's will is our will, not his will. We only do his will when he gives us his holy spirit and we start to become more and more like Christ. You're right to a certain extent that God does not take away our free will from us but he makes us want to do his will rather than our will. But in everything within the universe, and beyond, God is in control. His will be done.
Check out my YouTube channel/playlists and websites for present-truth materials, Three Angels' Messages and God's last-mercy warning to His people in these last days.
Papacy = Antichrist / Little Horn / Beast from the Sea
Roman Catholicism = Whore of Babylon
Investigative Judgement has commenced in 1844 (1st Angel’s Message)
Ellen G. White, 1827-1915 = End-time Prophet Sent of God
7th-day Sabbath = Seal of God
Sunday Worship to be Enforced as Mark of the Beast"
“If Christ himself came to Geneva, he would be crucified. For Geneva is not a place of Christian liberty. It is ruled by a new pope, but one who burns men alive, while the pope at Rome at least strangles them first.” – Sebastian Castellio in his response to Calvin’s Defense of the Christian Faith. Castellio, a superior scholar, had been expelled earlier from Geneva for 'disagreeing' with Calvin.
At each step we encounter chains, thongs, a stake, pincers, melted pitch, fire, and sulphur. And throughout the whole there is blood. One imagines himself in Dante’s Hell, where sighs, groans, and lamentations continually resound.” Audin on Calvin's reign in Geneva.
“There is but one word heard or read: Death. Death to every one guilty of high treason against God; death to every one guilty of high treason against the State; death to the son that strikes or curses his father; death to the adulterer; death to heretics. During the space of twenty years, commencing from the date of Calvin’s recall, the history of Geneva is a bloody drama, in which pity, dread, terror, indignation, and tears, by turns, appear to seize upon the soul... con't
I'll start with Calvin's commentary on Romans 9:18: "But the word hardens, when applied to God in Scripture, means not only permission, (as some washy moderators would have it,) but also the operation of the wrath of God: for all those external things, which lead to the blinding of the reprobate, are the instruments of his wrath; and Satan himself, who works inwardly with great power, is so far his minister, that he acts not, but by his command." Read this closely.
Does God show mercy to whom He will show mercy? Does the word "Passover" mean something other than God's decision to "pass over" some? Ephesians 1 must be considered here brother... Don't be drawn in to the name calling: Cite and refute, but please consider the points!
Despite all the calvinist newspeak, the logical end conclusion of calvinist theology is, shall be, and has always been, that God is the author is sin. Which make calvinism the single most blasphemous theology ever concocted by man.
Type this on G bar: i p e r t i s a l i t h i a s . g r / p a g e 5 . (with spaces in between, as it is) and then click on the 1st one on top of the page, then read: How not to fall into Calvinism's deception.
@mattkade You are right. We cannot answer the call unless God draw us by his Grace. The keyword for human beings is 'answer' the call. When you answer, you make a choice and respond. Choice must be there for human beings. You cannot take away volition, no matter how depraved a human being is. Imagine if someone committed a wicked crime against your family. Would you say, 'God has ordained it, bless and magnify God for what has happened, or would you want justice for the perpetrators choices.'
Scripture that is plain in it's teaching should be taken that way. 'Choose this day whom you will serve' means exactly that. Repent and believe the gospel means exactly that without any attachments. God is continually throughout scripture admonishing people to make the choice to turn from sin. Now, that doesn't mean that God's grace is not active in drawing the person and empowering them to make that choice, but the person still must make that decision without being forced.
@MilanPavkovic1 100% AMEN. Well put! :) But, see what folks need to do is SIMPLY RECEIVE JESUS CHRIST and HIS WORD == THE BIBLE and NOT 'add" and NOT "subtract" from it. TAKE JESUS CHRIST WORD AT HIS WORD. And, allow the HOLY GHOST to lead and guide us into ALL TRUTH and we can NEVER GO WRONG. :) Folks tend to forget it is NOT of "works" but it is our "obedience" to GOD as we "endure in HIS WORD" where JESUS CHRIST guarantees to him that "endure in my WORD" he shall be SAVED. Amen.
@LordMalice6d9 I see just the opposite. I see them as those who want to give God ALL the glory. A person who truly understands the truth of God will fall humbly to God and serve Him out of love and give Him glory when God uses him for His ultimate plan. God is not needy, and nor do we deserve anything but eternal separation from him. It is God's beautiful grace that is underserved that brings us to serve him and do his work.
@changeishere2008 I was actually responding to this reply from @LordMalice6d9 "I see Calvinism as an excuse to be a bunch self-righteous sociopaths." My response was in defense of Calvinism in a way. And how the Calvanistic view gives God ALL the glory and not just some of it.
Hello, Thanks for responding. You're right They want to add something to the Gospel. As if Jesus hasn't done enough. I watched a video by Paul washer and felt condemned by some of the things he said i prayed and confessed my sins right there. Later on I learned the teaching was back words and not of the Bible. I was happy when I read your post because you didn't fall for false teaching. I pray God will open people's eyes. Salvation is a free gift from God
@brianjnunes Some glory... this glory includes the 'glory' of creating mankind to have most of it damned for eternity, while holding it responsible for evil and sin, while at the same time not bestowing free will on it to either say yes or no to sin. That's not glory. That is utter madness.
@brianjnunes Pray tell: how do we 'deserve' eternal seperation when mankind did not have a free will to choose to sin or not? This whole idea of Calvinism stands or falls with the question of God's sovereignity. The supralapsarist view - as espoused by Calvin's successor Beza - states clearly that God predestined the FALL, thereby basically eliminating all of Adam's guilt. Calvinism makes no sense. On top of that, it is blasphemy to me.
After everything is ultimately boiled down, there are really only 2 perspectives, but only one of the 2 positions is logically consistent. Here's a hint; it isn't the one that says "grace + my decision to accept the Gospel of grace, + my obedience to that belief, = salvation".
@JohnO318 You can resist the grace of God. You can reject the grace of God. You can receive the grace of God in vain. These biblical principles clearly imply the power of choice. How on earth can a plain man not see this, or how else could you explain this to a common person other than what I have stated. Please look at things as they are, with the plain understanding that God has given you and do refrain from trying to fall back into some deeply confusing theological 'truth' which isn't there.
Here's the thing. It's kinda funny. I am a Calvinist BUT I don't usually like the other Calvinists I meet. There is a tendency to err on the side of hyper Calvinism and be very harsh with their wives and children. I just posted a clip with some question from one Christian to other Christians of any persuasion (calvinists, arminians or otherwise). Cheers!
hey loonypics For start read rom 9 : 11. when read 9 : 15 - 18. maybye you'll say what 'bout rom 10 : 9-10. Well then read rom 9 : 19 if you'll be not so blind maybye you'll even manage to find out that man with tuffted heart ARE NOT able to say "God you're my God" or maybye you think that man's will are stronger than God's will? then you are dumber that i fought. Read then rom 9 : 19 - 21. God bless ya.
My faith is in the finnished work of Jesus, his blood covers my sin. I believe Jesus came as God in the flesh. Paul said - Rom 10:9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
Rom 10:10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
I repeat I am NOT a Calvanist. I came to Jesus by my own free will
@Loonypics Is God that saves people, and God that keeps them, unless you consider yourself righteous enough to come to reason you should become a Christian and love God. Wretched sinners cannot do that, why would depraved men choose God when is Him whom they hate most? Salvation comes from God for the wicked.
“No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws them, and I will raise them up at the last day." John 6:48
Don't stumble in human logic, believe the Scriptures.
@Loonypics Before the fall they could obey God and obviously could disobey Him. After the fall, we were left with disobedience, that is, we are still free to disobey God as much as we want, if that is what you call free will (the freedom to disobey) then we have it! Be we cannot please God unless we're born again in Jesus by the will of God. And furthermore God already knew they would sin even before the existence of the universe so God created a world knowing men will sin and disobey.
@tiagotrinidad We had then and have now the free wil to do just what we like, wether it be good or bad, if you can't see that then you trully are stupid. I'm sorry if your offended but we were NOT created to be mindless robots, good day to you
One thing I'm not - I'm NOT is a egotistical, selfrightiousm, religious nutter like you lot. And yes I've rea Romans try ch 10- v9:10 here you will read the TRUE Gospel. Let me remind you what I said earlia -Your Calvinists go out of you're way to BLOCK men from the kindom of God, just like the Pharasies that Jesus rebuked.
@tiagotrinidad UNLIKE YOURSELF I'm NOT is a egotistical, selfrightiousm, religious nutter like you or any other deluded follower of Calvin . Read Romans try ch 10- v9:10 here you will read the TRUE Gospel
NO KINDLY CLEAR OFF I'M NOT INTERESTED IN YOU VERBAL CRAP
@tiagotrinidad repent of your false semi-Gnostic gospel and heresy. It's odd that you would call Pelagius a heretic when his views align much more with that of the Ante-Nicean church than does the former Gnostic Augustine... the Early church would call you the heretics, because you interpret the Bible just like the fatalistic Gnostics. If you have the free will to do so, read the early church writings prior to Augustine... you stand in contrast with the first 300 years of the church
@tiagotrinidad So I just sit around and what for the call do I ? You can poke CALVIN where the the sun don't shine.
Your Calvinists go out of you're way to BLOCK men from the kindom of God, just like the Pharasies that Jesus rebuked. Well I rebuke you and that murdering swine Calvin that you worship !
@tiagotrinidad Ah, some interesting points that are close to the truth. If you will, allow me to explain. Before the fall we had the 'choice' to obey God or the 'choice' to disobey God. After the fall we still have the 'choice' to obey or disobey. The main difference is that when we 'choose' to 'obey' God sin is magnified in us and when we 'choose' to disobey we are simply reflecting the fallen nature. We need forgiveness and a redeemed nature in order to once again please God. This is truth.
On the subject of Limited Atonement, I would say this. Christ died for all (every single human being who has ever lived) and the price has been paid. However, believing in the Gospel is is akin to someone cashing in a cheque. Christ may have died for everyone, but unless one personally applies this through repentance and faith it is of no value to them. The atonement is not limited but universal and complete.
i respectfully disagree. no one believes unless God gives him the ability. and God doesn't give everyone that ability. if the atonement is universal, then all are saved.
Hello my friend. Thank you for your response. Scripture teaches, "Whosever will....whosever believes, etc". This implies that man can choose. I have studied calvinism in quite some depth and have understood why good christians of a calvinistic persuasion believe what they do. However, it is my sincere belief that they make certain passages of scripture more difficult to understand that originally intended. Now, I could speak for a long time on the many flaws in Calvinism's theology. Here is one;
1 of the 5 points of Calvinist theology (I understand that these points were drawn up to refute other teaching), total depravity (I will speak simply about this) teaches that man is dead in sin (indeed it is scriptural) and unable to even make one small movement towards God. He is completely corrupted from head to toe and deserves the just punishment of God. These things have the essence of truth, but they overlook other things. Yes scripture teaches that unless the Father draw you
you will be unable to come to God. True, but again something is overlooked. Here is what I perceive the problem to be; Total Depravity teaches that man is unable to choose which is itself a misrepresentation of what it means to be dead in sin. When one is dead in sin, it means that all that their nature (Fallen & Sinful) produces, from the choices they make, will be inherently unrighteous and unacceptable to God. All of their righteous deeds will be as filthy rags.
No matter how hard the person tries to do right(by decisions made according to their god given moral compass; the conscience), the best they choose is born out of a nature that is in opposition to God. This inability of a man to please God through works (born out of the fallen nature) drives the person to a level of despair, seeing that they find in themselves a great inability to please God. They find that they are a slave to sin, unable to unshackle their lives from its dominion.
@MilanPavkovic1 why would an unbeliever try to please God though (Romans 3:10-12)¿ God would have to open the eyes of them to come to repentance. Also, an unbeliever can do right in a moral sense (which is useless in the end) but that doesn't mean they are righteous in the sight of God.
@jtremaine23. An unbeliever of course cannot please God because he doesn't even seek Him. However, there are many unbelievers who seek to do what is morally right (the conscience testifies to this) and that is the point at hand. Of course they cannot please God with their works of 'righteousness'. Nevertheless, when the grace of God begins to draw and awaken a person to the reality of their sin the person can resist or begin to deny the truth. I believe my points are very clear.
@jtremaine23 Therefore, as the grace of God has appeared unto all men (as Christ desire all to be saved and not simply 'all types of men' as calvinism erroneously teaches) some will choose to repent and believe (which drives them to despair) and others will choose to resist and deny the truth of God's grace in Christ.
They are fully aware that sin has dominion and mastery over them (because the natural man cannot please God in that it's very nature has been cursed), and after countless efforts in trying to justify themselves before a holy God (whom is already drawing them at this stage; they are making the choice to follow this drawing), they come to the realisation (through God's active work) that they indeed are sinners who deserve hell.
All along they are making decisions that they hope will justify them before God, but because of their inherently evil nature the results are undeserving of God's approval. So when they finally decide (to each man is given a measure of faith, and god is willing that none should perish) to accept Christ as their Lord and saviour through the hearing of the gospel as it is preached by faithful ministers, they are born again. All along, God has been drawing the believer to repentance.
Now I have more to say on total depravity, but I will stop there. Just because a person is dead indeed in sin, it does not mean that his power of choice has been revoked. Otherwise, how could a just God demand accountability from human beings if they themselves were not responsible for their choices and how could they be held responsible for their decisions if their will was not free to respond to the Grace of God. This grace the bible says has appeared unto all men.
If you dismantle even one of the 5 points of TULIP, calvinism fails. Again, dead in sin does not imply that their ability to choose is dead. Rather, it implies that their ability to please God and truly do good is dead (their own nature's giving birth to all kinds of evil). This is my best explanation. It can be hard work dismantling some of this stuff, but eventually it can be very rewarding. God bless you and hope to hear from you soon.
@toobfunnybunny The CORE of Arminianism is NOT free will but semi-pelagianism salvation by works- in other words- the satanic doctrine of "lose your salvation" Read The Other Side of Calvinism by Dr. Laurence M. Vance- he repudiates BOTH Calvinism AND Arminianism!!!!!!!
I am NOT an arminian; I do NOT believe in "lose your salvation"(salvation by WORKS) but ALL five points of calvinisn are unscriptural, heretical, and extremely harmful. That's all.
Dear friends. I think the bottom line is that there is no part of Sacred Scripture that directly defends sola scriptura or sola fide. Parts you may quote are open to multiple interpretations, and hence require an infallible authority to interpret them. Otherwise, we're left in the mud of relativism and/or speculation. Christ gave full authority to St. Peter for such a task. This full authority includes the power to hand on his authority. This authority is the Catholic Church.
@helpyouseeit More satan worshipping blasphemy from the mind control roman catholic cult- DON'T think- we'll do the thinking for you and tell you what to think and believe!!
I never heard the word 'Calvinist' until I watched a video on youtube (not this one). I'm making this comment b4 I watch this video, but so far I really don't see what the big deal is. I'm hoping to do some research when I have time, but if you're Christian and following the Bible...
I just have one question - why the name 'Calvinist?' I know about John Calvin, but 'Calvinist' makes it sound like you're under his authority instead of Christ's. Not saying u are, just that it sounds that way.
Please don't fall for the evils of calvinism. John Calvin and his agents are not teaching what Yeshua thought. They also hated Jews so much they wanted them wiped out. it's all over the internet you can read about it.
At least Presbyterians are usually intelligent, even if they are "frozen chosen" and condescending elitists. Baptist Calvinists tend to have twice the zeal, half the intellect, and the same nauseous airs of theological superiority.
Let the Bible speak, I agree, all who say they believe-BELIEVE IT! YHVH has His Power one doesn't need a man's understanding, doctrinal belief! He is THE DOCTOR [PHYSICIAN,HEALER & ALL IT SAYS]
I do not understand anything this man is saying. 2 Peter 3:9 says the Lord is not willing that any should perish but that all should come to repentance. Salvation is a free gift to anyone who chooses to partake of it through obedience to His Word. We are all free moral agents who have a choice to obey or not to obey. God does not make that choice for us.
yeah stop making sucha fuss plz people. yeah calvin was cute and at least he stopped working for the police lots them bit naughty they shot heroin and crack like the cia. but he died get over it inshallah/g-d willing he bee back. trust me i may be bit crazy but it happened recent with mi cat. hollyoaks is cool but reality is lot better and healthier..bless ya brutha lane nice channell...peace, mich X
Well sure, that's a given. But now after we are saved and are growing in the word of God, there are questions that need to be answered and discussed about the doctrines of Scripture. God gave us the wonderful gift of His word in which He has disclosed many wonderful things. Shame on us if we don't take the time to be devout and study His word, right? :)
@AgApE010 i tottally agree with bro, we need to study the whole Word of God
but to reduce the supernatural work of God on salvation/redemption by callin it armianism or calvinism doesnt seem like such a good bible study, specially when salvation is such a beatiful work of our Great and Infinite God,i dont think it can be explained by 5 or even 10 points.
The name itself is just for simplicity of understanding. For example, it's easier to say you believe in the Trinity than to say you believe in one God eternally existing as three distinct, not separate, co-equal-co-eternal persons, in perfect unity, etc. Same thing with using the title "Calvinism."
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Then how many points are needed to explain the doctrines of grace? 15? 20? Or can we even understand what His word says concerning this?
the number of points would be proportional to the number of sins we've commited lol
i can even understand why some ppl belive in calvinism, armianism..but explaining the love of God and grace, thats beyond our undersdanding - ephesians 3:19 =D
Run away from False doctrine and Let Yeshua set you free. calvin had Michael Servitis killed at a stake he has been long gone. it's better to say I am a follower of Jesus Christ.
I don't follow Calvin. I am a follower of Christ. You don't understand this discussion within Christianity. Basically, there are two views of what the Bible teaches about the details of salvation and God's role in it: the way Augustine, Luther, and Calvin understood it (this is known as Calvinism) or the way Pelagius, Arminius, and Wesley understood it (this is called Arminianism). I agree with the former, that that si the way the Word of God teaches. That's all.
@AgApE010 Saying that 'this is what the Word of God teaches' does not make it so. There are plenty of discrepancies in Calvinist theology, the primary one being that for the calvinist system to work, God is the author of sin. I know calvinists will bolt at the thought and go out of their way to claim that 'this is not the case', but that's the logical end conclusion is the same. Calvin himself, in his Institution, tried to get away with it by claiming that 'God wills and wills not' at the
God is certainly not actively causing sin. I assume this is what you mean by "author." But that He decrees all things, including the sinful acts of men, is evident throughout the Scriptures. Such a topic can't be discussed properly in this forum. If you're interested in debating this issue, we can do so on PalTalk. I'd be more than happy to defend Biblical doctrine and tear down your heresies on there. That is, if you accept my challenge. If you don't, simply be gone.
@AgApE010 The warmth of calvinism oozes from your comment, which displays that typical brand on theological arrogance. We don't need to take this to PalTalk. We can debate this right here. Especially since you are so steadfast in your own correctness. In advance, I'll tell you that I have heard every excuse in the book. You're not dealing with a novice here. Therefore, your spiked words have little effect on me as well. Just answer the question.
It is you who is being arrogant in arguing about something that you obviously have not even bothered to read a systematic theology on. There's nothing arrogant on my part about being confident in the Word of God.
Yes, we do need to go to PalTalk because a text-only forum like this one is not suitable for such a discussion. In my experience, discussing these topics here only turn out to be frustratingly unclear and fruitless.
@AgApE010 Again, dodging the obvious with sly references to systematic theology (which is about as adequate in debunking the logical end conclusion of calvinism as is reason) or the Word of God does not intimidate me. I have actually read Calvin's work. Have you? Have you gone beyond the Institution and read the man's bible commentaries? If not, I suggest you do this first before you start aligning calvinism with 'gospel truth'. And no, I don't get frustrated here. This medium is fine.
Alright, we're done here than. I explained why this forum is not suitable and you wish to remain stubborn. If you change your mind, let me know. Otherwise, please stop commenting to me thereby filling my inbox with trash.
@AgApE010 I'm not surprised by your disposition. Not at all. The hardline calvinist seems to hold up Calvin as a pope, even a godhead himself. Whenever someone actually throws back actual words from the man himself, the calvinist responds with bitterness and contempt. Then again, as you are so obviously part of the elect, I am sure that you think your disdain of those who disagree with you somehow is a divine perogative. Pretty much like Calvin thought his was burning Servetus to death.
@AgApE010 As a faithful follower of satanic doctrine you purposely ignore the correct, third view- that of non-calvinistic Baptists and Plymoth Brethren (I guess some Pentecostals who don't believe in the devil worship of "lose your salvation"too). Calvinism is pure satan worship, it is blasphemy of hell. So is arminianism/Pelagianism. Baptists like John Rice, Curtis Hutson, Hugh Pyle are NOT lose your salvation. "arminian works-devils" . Other Side of Calvanism by Vance(more listed)
(more Biblical books) What love is this? Dave Hunt(His other works too) The Dark Side of Calvinism. George Bryson, C. Gordon Olson: "Beyond Calvinism and Arminianism" and "Getting the Gospel Right: A Balanced View of Salvation Truth", Why I Disagree With All fFve Points of Calvinism BY CURTIS HUTSON, Hyper-Calvinism: A False Doctrine -By Dr. John R. Rice (also Predestined for Hell?) and The Deadly Flower (T.U.L.I.P.) -- Dr. Gregory O. Baker
@AgApE010 Wow... you really are enforcing the stereotype of the calvinist hardliner... Then again, the man himself was no slouch when it came to brutality; "[Servetus] takes it upon him to come hither, if it be agreeable to me. But I am unwilling to pledge my word for his safety, for if he shall come, I shall never permit him to depart alive, provided my authority be of any avail." Calvin to Farel, 1546. Case closed.
@AgApE010 yes.. you are right.. but clearly we are instucted not to argue over baptisms or doctrines but in the bond of peace to press in and seek HIS FACE.. not seek for ways to prove ourselves right. This is pride; and it doesn't take a "saved" person to see that. If Paul behaved like this; no one would have heard the word of God through him; "COMPEL THEM" to come; He uses His people; he does not float in on clouds; let's behave like we are His Children; tenderhearted towards one another.
No, we are instructed over not arguing over useless superstitions. When the apostles met together in Acts 15 to discuss Gentiles and their relation to Mosaic Law, was that prideful? Or was it prideful when Paul argued for orthodox doctrine to the Corinthians?
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"If Paul behaved like this no one would have heard the word"
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No, we don't preserve the Bible's doctrines at the expense of not preaching the Gospel. You maintain both, as Paul did.
We are "totally depraved"??? Geez, what an absurd, pathetic, self-hating concept!!!
Listening to this ridiculous talk reminds of how humans are endlessly creative when it comes to hating themselves and making up the most convoluted lies with which to abuse themselves and, most importantly, to abuse and control OTHERS!!!
@AgApE010 Gee, you're pretty nice to yourself, aren't you? You are "totally depraved" BUT that's OK??
what kind of god creates you as "totally depraved", then demands YOU be better? Or is your god just a depraved as you are and enjoys the evil you do?
You're "intellectually honest"?? What a joke, FAITH is the exact opposite of intellectual! You believe without evidence, read mistranslated fairy tales from a book we don't have the original of.
Oh brother, another atheist. I should've figured. Get off of YouTube and go read some books, for crying out loud. Cause this whole "faith is delusional; fairy tales etc" is just childish and reeks of ignorance. Start with Berlinski's The Devil's Delusion, WLC's Reasonable Faith, or SOMETHING. Just get your brain working cause we're tired of the same old thrice-refuted objections from you guys. You're worse than the Muslims in your lack of knowledge.
@AgApE010 OH, Very Good! Going right to the insults without even trying to refute my questions! Just ignoring valid points, because YOU don't have any answers.
Even the stupidest Christians TRY to respond, you can't even do that.
Don't list books (that someone read to you) because YOU can't articulate a concise, literate response.
Berlinski? Please! he's just rock thrower, who put his anger on paper, without any positive points.
YOU say god exists, the burden of proof is YOURS!
*Sigh* I've spent countless hours debating atheists on YouTube and PalTalk. After getting the SAME objections EACH and EVERY time that are already answered by every Theistic writer, it gets to the point where you can't put your face any deeper into your palm. So I'll just have to excuse myself from this debate. Now if you happen to read any good works and can thus make informed objections and ask intelligent questions, we'll talk.
@AgApE010 you can't seem to defend you own position, so here's some guidance, "Non Belief & Evil" by T. Drange. Which logically proves there can be NO god as described in the Bible.
1.Obviously god wants worship, then why are there millions of non-believers in the world?
2.As Ehrman details in "God's Problem", why does god allow enormous suffering in the world? Free Will does not apply to those killed by Tsunamis.
3.There is no original ver. of the bible where do YOU get your "truth"?
No, I'm capable to the task. I just said that I don't wish to get into another debate here, so I won't. I'm in no obligation to carry on with you just because you got a wild hair. But like I said, if you present some informed arguments, we'll discuss. But don't come to me with any of this elementary schoolyard fussing.
@AgApE010 No, you're not capable, based on the vacuous comments you've advanced here. You have a very arrogant view of your own intellect, NOT justified by anything you've written here.
I've asked some very basic "faith" questions which others have had thoughtful points on. You simply whine about how it's all beneath you, and insult me. I have commented on your page (which you censored, making you an intellectual coward)
Yes, religion suits you; arrogant without reason / faith in myth
No, not arrogance; I just don't feel like debating another hair-brained atheist whose entire exposure to the theistic position is based on YouTube comment threads. And I censor my comments to prevent those who post vulgarities on my channel. You want to know how belief in God is logical? Get off the computer and read one of the works I mentioned. In the end, if you won't consider reading *them,* you definitely won't consider anything *I* have to say here.
@AgApE010 The bulk of Calvin's theology being that the character of God is either evil in intent (author of sin) or ambiguous ("God wills and wills not at the same time"). For the calvinist dogma of double predestination to work, the end result remains that God is the author of sin, not man. Centuries now calvinists have been dodging the question, and never have they adequately answered it.
@AgApE010 I'm not here to defend crazy ranty guy, but would just like to point out that atheists on average by one poll knew more than Christians about Christianity. One poll does not give statistical significance, and you surely know more than most atheists, but the charge that "you're worse than the Muslims in your lack of knowledge" is demonstrably wrong. And really, saying "another atheist" is kind of insulting. You're fault for responding to a troll. ;P
I've heard such things. But what poll is this and who are the ones being interviewed? In my exposure to atheists both here and on PalTalk over the years, I honestly have not met even one who has any significant knowledge of the Bible. It is always uninformed remarks from atheistic writers who themselves don't know the Bible. And I know it's from atheistic writers because I read those same writers! :P (Have to stay ahead of the curve when speaking to atheists!).
(continued) God is not an indian giver, He doesnt take back his gifts, and our relationship with him is not based on our performance(WORKS, WORKS,WORKS! ) God will DISCPLINE, misbehaving, lazy but truly saved believers but will not make a believer unsaved nor take back his love, grace and SALVATION!!!.
@changeishere2008 said, " That's why I protect my children from this type of abusive teaching and mind manupilation i hope people will awaken to this sick calvinism teaching"
You are doing good, very good, but you must ALSO protect them from the BLASPHEMY of "lose your salvation".
I can't find either of those suggestions anywhere .. in all my bible reading. Please point me to the place in scripture where either one of those is mentioned.
If I can go straight to the ONE who forgives for confession.. why go to a man? The Rosary is not mentioned in the bible ONE TIME. it is a religion that instructs such an act. not Christ or even any Apostle.
PLEASE DONT READ THIS. YOU WILL GET KISSED ON THE NEAREST POSSIBLE FRIDAY BY THE LOVE OF YOUR LIFE. TOMORROW WILL BE THE BEST DAY OF YOUR LIFE. HOWEVER IF YOU DONT POST THIS COMMENT TO AT LEAST 3 VIDEOS YOU WILL DIE WITHIN 2 DAYS. NOW UV STARTED READIN DIS DUNT STOP THIS IS SO SCARY. SEND THIS OVER TO 5 VIDEOS IN 143 MINUTES WHEN UR DONE PRESS F6 AND UR CRUSHES NAME WILL APPEAR ON THE SCREEN IN BIG LETTERS. THIS IS SO SCARY CAUSE IT ACTUALLY WORKs
This IS the end of the SBC. I can hardly imagine a more enervating notion then this truly fatalistic notion. Read The Next Christendom, the world of the future will soon be divided between Pentacostals & Catholics. Why fuss over these rhetorical poses of the 16th cent.? It is like arguing over Monophysitism.
I believe in the T.U.L.I.P. I do not believe in infant baptism. I do not believe that the church is the new Israel. I am not anti-semite. The doctrine of TULIP is all through the pages of scripture. Election has been taught since Cain & Able.
Im a Baptist, Non-Calvinist. But I love Ian Paisley, and the Free Presbyterian Church is doing a good job in spreading. Ian Paisley's sermon on LSD, and 60 Minutes to go are preached in a manner that you would not know he was a Calvinist. Matter of fact in one sermon he says that he believes that "God would save every person in the building and more." That is not a term you hear from a Calvinistic Baptist. Most CB are very HyperCalvinist.
PastorEaster 3 days ago
calvinism isnt a cult, its teaching of the truths of the Bible. If Jesus died for everyone, believers and non-believers, then no one would go to Hell. That would contradict Matthew 7:14, "few there be that find it"
achelgeson93 2 weeks ago
@achelgeson93 Hm, I don't have to accept the gift of grace (my responsibility- repentance, faith, obedience, trust, etc all under the umbrella of belief) if I don't want to. Does that mean that Christ did not die for me. If you would study Scripture as the Bureans did it would be obvious that Christ did die for all men and it is not God's will that any perish. But if man refuses to obey John 3:36 then he still goes to Hell even tho God fulfilled His loving responsibility.
CMCHAPEL 1 week ago
@CMCHAPEL The problem of Calvinism is the un Biblical teaching that God UN-CONDITIONALLY chooses those that are saved. However, the Bible teaches that God chooses according to His Word - this involves man's responsibility named above - otherwise the Bible contradicts itself which is impossible. The other problem with Calvinism is that God's sovereignty is confused with his will. It is not God's will that any perish. However, many perish but God is still sovereign.
CMCHAPEL 1 week ago
The Devil's favorite religions.........Secular Humanism.....Islam.........Calvinism.
willpower242 1 month ago
Calvinism is a heresy........It's distinctives are unbiblical.....salvation is conditional on faith.......atonement is unlimited ........and grace is resistible. Acts 16:31 1 John 2:2 Luke 13:34
Repent of Calvinism!!!! 2 Tim 2:15
willpower242 1 month ago
@willpower242 salvation is conditional on faith, yes. But we learn in Ephesians 2:8 that this faith is a gift from God, and it is NOT of ourselves. In other words, you have done nothing to gain your salvation, only the grace of God has spared you. No one "chooses" to believe the gospel. When you hear the gospel, you either believe, or you do not. It is not a matter of a carnal decision of the mind, it is a matter of hearing the voice of our Savior, and believing on him.
bengphoenix 1 month ago
@bengphoenix if we are robotic idiots then all the commandments in Scripture are unnecessary. The fact that we are dead in sin has NOTHING to do with the fact that we are created in God's image and do have the ability to think and reason and respond to God's Word initiated by God's call (God calls ALL men to repentance.) You contradict yourself since when you believe you are choosing if you understand the original meaning of the word "believe" which most do not have a clue.
CMCHAPEL 1 week ago
@CMCHAPEL Did I say we were robotic idiots? Did any Calvinist say this? No, you imply this out of ignorance. You dont understand, so you slander. It's ok, I'm sure God has given you other gifts.
bengphoenix 1 week ago
I have also asked the question: Why would God call the entire nation of Israel his elect when they have rejected Him as their Messiah? "As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the fathers' sakes. [Rom 11:28]. In this instance God's elect are the unsaved Jews. It fits in perfectly with Matt 8:11-12 " But the children of the kingdom shall be cast out into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth."
lessingtom 1 month ago
Calvinists believe that Jesus would have been a failure if He had to die for the sins of all mankind while most of them are going to end up in hell. I have asked the following question many times and not ONE Calvinist has answered me to date. The question is: Who said this: "Then I said, I have laboured in vain, I have spent my strength for nought, and in vain: yet surely my judgment is with the LORD, and my work with my God. [Isa 49:4]
lessingtom 1 month ago
@biblicalreality
Yeah, he thought Calvinism was right and hated papes.
ProtestantThomas 3 months ago
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We can be cut off if we do not abide in faith. Rom 11:20-22
“Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou Standest By FAITH. Be not high minded, but fear:
For if God spared not the natural branches, TAKE HEED LEAST HE Also SPARE NOT THEE.
Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, IF Thou CONTINUE IN His goodness: Otherwise thou ALSO Shalt Be CUT OFF.
Continue to trust in Christ and Abba...
AchreousD 5 months ago
Is this a real person speaking or a computer generated voice?
johnnywybenga2 5 months ago
LOL! Some of these arguments the comments are posing are very... silly? For a lack of a better term, I'll use that. Some of us, in attempt to supposedly "Refute" Calvinism, end up standing as a proponent for it. Well played, brothers. -God Bless!
ItsNowWarfare 6 months ago
My only point is dont be folled into beliving men who are faulty, This is the verry reason we dont go to church, to follow opinions on the words of God. We read then we follow christs words.There is no explinations of what we read as to add any explination to what is self explanitory is a lie. All scripture is self explainitory and to say it needs expilination is a lie. I say moist churches are a front for explinations for money. To say jesus needed men to explain anything for him is a lie.
mystic81006 6 months ago
We dont need no more then what chrsit told us all, to add to it is well, fake and lies, like paul,saul.he added to it, he put more to it, he also asked questions to make it seem truth,but it was nothing more then adding to what jesus said. Jesus saves not paul and not Calvinism. Read jesus and what he said, not paul, not saul and not Calvinism. Your own soul depends on what christ said and only what he said,follow christ only.
mystic81006 6 months ago
Adoption, election and predestination have clear meaning and in the Bible they describe the relation of the born again to God.
Ebeneezerable 6 months ago
If Matt Slick is anything to go by, calvinism is a particularity repulsive cult.
huntmatuk 6 months ago
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Here's a good question. How many Calvinistic Evangelists are there at this present time? Think about it, how many do you know? No wonder the Southern Baptists are worried.
SlopeObadiah 6 months ago
The only truth in this life we live is that we all must leave. Every thing in between will always be a subject of are imagination.
TheFlutevisions 7 months ago
after resurrection Jesus appeared to his disciples and breathed on them so that they are filled with Holy spirit (john last chapter). But the presence of Holy spirit did not take them to do the Godly work they were called for. They went back fishing. But gradually they got the power and they were able to win their will and do Gods will that the Holy spirit encouraged them to live. I am telling all this because people should not be mislead. I am not a scholar, am just a believer in gospel.
sreedesi 7 months ago
But to realize that my flesh is weak I have to fall many times and I was prone to leave the God I loved.
There is always a human element in sanctification, when Jesus changed water to wine he asked the servants to first fill the Jars with water and then he did the hard part of changing it to wine. So I need to do the easy thing which is accepting that I am weak and my faith is like this water but asking God to convert it to a precious wine. Please don't get believe because 30% of scholars do.
sreedesi 7 months ago
Just because calvinism is accepted by everyone, I cannot accept it. In my personal testimony I kept struggling with sin even after receiving holy spirit. God does not take our free will when he saves us. If God wanted this then he could have made us born without free will so that we can do his will all the time. God wants us to have victory over our free will and live with the power of holy spirit not by our power. Once i realized that my flesh is weak I truely started living a Godly life.
sreedesi 7 months ago
@sreedesi Our will apart from God's will is our will, not his will. We only do his will when he gives us his holy spirit and we start to become more and more like Christ. You're right to a certain extent that God does not take away our free will from us but he makes us want to do his will rather than our will. But in everything within the universe, and beyond, God is in control. His will be done.
DougCameraMan 6 months ago
Jesus is enough.
gledy919 7 months ago
i wonder if reform was in obscurantism
emilio57702 7 months ago
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Check out my YouTube channel/playlists and websites for present-truth materials, Three Angels' Messages and God's last-mercy warning to His people in these last days.
Papacy = Antichrist / Little Horn / Beast from the Sea
Roman Catholicism = Whore of Babylon
Investigative Judgement has commenced in 1844 (1st Angel’s Message)
Ellen G. White, 1827-1915 = End-time Prophet Sent of God
7th-day Sabbath = Seal of God
Sunday Worship to be Enforced as Mark of the Beast"
SeventhDayRemnant 8 months ago
“If Christ himself came to Geneva, he would be crucified. For Geneva is not a place of Christian liberty. It is ruled by a new pope, but one who burns men alive, while the pope at Rome at least strangles them first.” – Sebastian Castellio in his response to Calvin’s Defense of the Christian Faith. Castellio, a superior scholar, had been expelled earlier from Geneva for 'disagreeing' with Calvin.
TennesseeOwnsMyBones 9 months ago
At each step we encounter chains, thongs, a stake, pincers, melted pitch, fire, and sulphur. And throughout the whole there is blood. One imagines himself in Dante’s Hell, where sighs, groans, and lamentations continually resound.” Audin on Calvin's reign in Geneva.
TennesseeOwnsMyBones 9 months ago
“There is but one word heard or read: Death. Death to every one guilty of high treason against God; death to every one guilty of high treason against the State; death to the son that strikes or curses his father; death to the adulterer; death to heretics. During the space of twenty years, commencing from the date of Calvin’s recall, the history of Geneva is a bloody drama, in which pity, dread, terror, indignation, and tears, by turns, appear to seize upon the soul... con't
TennesseeOwnsMyBones 9 months ago
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TennesseeOwnsMyBones 9 months ago
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TennesseeOwnsMyBones 9 months ago
I'll start with Calvin's commentary on Romans 9:18: "But the word hardens, when applied to God in Scripture, means not only permission, (as some washy moderators would have it,) but also the operation of the wrath of God: for all those external things, which lead to the blinding of the reprobate, are the instruments of his wrath; and Satan himself, who works inwardly with great power, is so far his minister, that he acts not, but by his command." Read this closely.
TennesseeOwnsMyBones 9 months ago
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alvinism would have me believe I was not saved because i am a liberal.
changeishere2008 9 months ago
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changeishere2008 9 months ago
This is a very nicely done talk. Concise explanation that shows the positive nature of Reformed Soteriology. Good Job
gamhazell 9 months ago
Does God show mercy to whom He will show mercy? Does the word "Passover" mean something other than God's decision to "pass over" some? Ephesians 1 must be considered here brother... Don't be drawn in to the name calling: Cite and refute, but please consider the points!
MadAtSkully 9 months ago
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@MadAtSkully
Salvation is a free gift from God.
God Bless You.
changeishere2008 9 months ago
typical calvinist dogma/propaganda
roaringwaterbay 10 months ago
@roaringwaterbay
Thank God you're awake and not deceived. By crazy men's writings.
changeishere2008 9 months ago
Despite all the calvinist newspeak, the logical end conclusion of calvinist theology is, shall be, and has always been, that God is the author is sin. Which make calvinism the single most blasphemous theology ever concocted by man.
TennesseeOwnsMyBones 10 months ago
@TennesseeOwnsMyBones
Thank God you're awake and not deceived. By crazy men's writings.
changeishere2008 9 months ago
@TennesseeOwnsMyBones
It's so sad I will expose it. Jesus has paid the debt in full People need to know the truth and focus on Jesus and not john calvin
changeishere2008 9 months ago
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Type this on G bar: i p e r t i s a l i t h i a s . g r / p a g e 5 . (with spaces in between, as it is) and then click on the 1st one on top of the page, then read: How not to fall into Calvinism's deception.
outofthebox7 10 months ago
@mattkade You are right. We cannot answer the call unless God draw us by his Grace. The keyword for human beings is 'answer' the call. When you answer, you make a choice and respond. Choice must be there for human beings. You cannot take away volition, no matter how depraved a human being is. Imagine if someone committed a wicked crime against your family. Would you say, 'God has ordained it, bless and magnify God for what has happened, or would you want justice for the perpetrators choices.'
MilanPavkovic1 11 months ago
@MilanPavkovic1
I would want justice. Why are so many folks deceived by this false teaching?
changeishere2008 9 months ago
Scripture that is plain in it's teaching should be taken that way. 'Choose this day whom you will serve' means exactly that. Repent and believe the gospel means exactly that without any attachments. God is continually throughout scripture admonishing people to make the choice to turn from sin. Now, that doesn't mean that God's grace is not active in drawing the person and empowering them to make that choice, but the person still must make that decision without being forced.
MilanPavkovic1 11 months ago
@MilanPavkovic1 100% AMEN. Well put! :) But, see what folks need to do is SIMPLY RECEIVE JESUS CHRIST and HIS WORD == THE BIBLE and NOT 'add" and NOT "subtract" from it. TAKE JESUS CHRIST WORD AT HIS WORD. And, allow the HOLY GHOST to lead and guide us into ALL TRUTH and we can NEVER GO WRONG. :) Folks tend to forget it is NOT of "works" but it is our "obedience" to GOD as we "endure in HIS WORD" where JESUS CHRIST guarantees to him that "endure in my WORD" he shall be SAVED. Amen.
LPATWILLFILM 9 months ago
@LPATWILLFILM
Amen!
changeishere2008 9 months ago
I have found that true born again people will always accept at least 4 points of calvinism if you don't tell them that it's calvinism.
saintjhull911 11 months ago
I see Calvinism as an excuse to be a bunch self-righteous sociopaths.
LordMalice6d9 11 months ago
@LordMalice6d9 I see just the opposite. I see them as those who want to give God ALL the glory. A person who truly understands the truth of God will fall humbly to God and serve Him out of love and give Him glory when God uses him for His ultimate plan. God is not needy, and nor do we deserve anything but eternal separation from him. It is God's beautiful grace that is underserved that brings us to serve him and do his work.
brianjnunes 9 months ago
@brianjnunes
Amen One less deceived person on You tube.
changeishere2008 9 months ago
@changeishere2008 I was actually responding to this reply from @LordMalice6d9 "I see Calvinism as an excuse to be a bunch self-righteous sociopaths." My response was in defense of Calvinism in a way. And how the Calvanistic view gives God ALL the glory and not just some of it.
brianjnunes 9 months ago
@brianjnunes
Hello, Thanks for responding. You're right They want to add something to the Gospel. As if Jesus hasn't done enough. I watched a video by Paul washer and felt condemned by some of the things he said i prayed and confessed my sins right there. Later on I learned the teaching was back words and not of the Bible. I was happy when I read your post because you didn't fall for false teaching. I pray God will open people's eyes. Salvation is a free gift from God
God Bless You.
changeishere2008 9 months ago
@brianjnunes Some glory... this glory includes the 'glory' of creating mankind to have most of it damned for eternity, while holding it responsible for evil and sin, while at the same time not bestowing free will on it to either say yes or no to sin. That's not glory. That is utter madness.
TennesseeOwnsMyBones 9 months ago
@brianjnunes Pray tell: how do we 'deserve' eternal seperation when mankind did not have a free will to choose to sin or not? This whole idea of Calvinism stands or falls with the question of God's sovereignity. The supralapsarist view - as espoused by Calvin's successor Beza - states clearly that God predestined the FALL, thereby basically eliminating all of Adam's guilt. Calvinism makes no sense. On top of that, it is blasphemy to me.
TennesseeOwnsMyBones 9 months ago
@TennesseeOwnsMyBones Yes! Yes! Yes! calvinism is satanic, just don't forget, "lose yoiur salvation is devil too!!!!!!!!
barrypatrickius 9 months ago
After everything is ultimately boiled down, there are really only 2 perspectives, but only one of the 2 positions is logically consistent. Here's a hint; it isn't the one that says "grace + my decision to accept the Gospel of grace, + my obedience to that belief, = salvation".
JohnO318 11 months ago
@JohnO318 You can resist the grace of God. You can reject the grace of God. You can receive the grace of God in vain. These biblical principles clearly imply the power of choice. How on earth can a plain man not see this, or how else could you explain this to a common person other than what I have stated. Please look at things as they are, with the plain understanding that God has given you and do refrain from trying to fall back into some deeply confusing theological 'truth' which isn't there.
MilanPavkovic1 11 months ago
I don't understand any of this. What are Christians doing arguing over this anyway?
yralm07 11 months ago
Here's the thing. It's kinda funny. I am a Calvinist BUT I don't usually like the other Calvinists I meet. There is a tendency to err on the side of hyper Calvinism and be very harsh with their wives and children. I just posted a clip with some question from one Christian to other Christians of any persuasion (calvinists, arminians or otherwise). Cheers!
MrChristianStuff 11 months ago
hey loonypics For start read rom 9 : 11. when read 9 : 15 - 18. maybye you'll say what 'bout rom 10 : 9-10. Well then read rom 9 : 19 if you'll be not so blind maybye you'll even manage to find out that man with tuffted heart ARE NOT able to say "God you're my God" or maybye you think that man's will are stronger than God's will? then you are dumber that i fought. Read then rom 9 : 19 - 21. God bless ya.
winisend 1 year ago
I'm not a Cavanist !
My faith is in the finnished work of Jesus, his blood covers my sin. I believe Jesus came as God in the flesh. Paul said - Rom 10:9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
Rom 10:10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
I repeat I am NOT a Calvanist. I came to Jesus by my own free will
Loonypics 1 year ago
@Loonypics Is God that saves people, and God that keeps them, unless you consider yourself righteous enough to come to reason you should become a Christian and love God. Wretched sinners cannot do that, why would depraved men choose God when is Him whom they hate most? Salvation comes from God for the wicked.
“No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws them, and I will raise them up at the last day." John 6:48
Don't stumble in human logic, believe the Scriptures.
God bless
tiagotrinidad 1 year ago
@tiagotrinidad Adam and Eve both sinned, they disobeyed God directly
Question - Was that their free will choice or not
Loonypics 1 year ago
@Loonypics Before the fall they could obey God and obviously could disobey Him. After the fall, we were left with disobedience, that is, we are still free to disobey God as much as we want, if that is what you call free will (the freedom to disobey) then we have it! Be we cannot please God unless we're born again in Jesus by the will of God. And furthermore God already knew they would sin even before the existence of the universe so God created a world knowing men will sin and disobey.
tiagotrinidad 1 year ago
@tiagotrinidad We had then and have now the free wil to do just what we like, wether it be good or bad, if you can't see that then you trully are stupid. I'm sorry if your offended but we were NOT created to be mindless robots, good day to you
Loonypics 1 year ago
@Loonypics Then you are a pelagian heretic. As I said you should read your Bible, Romans could be a good start.
God bless
tiagotrinidad 1 year ago
@tiagotrinidad
One thing I'm not - I'm NOT is a egotistical, selfrightiousm, religious nutter like you lot. And yes I've rea Romans try ch 10- v9:10 here you will read the TRUE Gospel. Let me remind you what I said earlia -Your Calvinists go out of you're way to BLOCK men from the kindom of God, just like the Pharasies that Jesus rebuked.
Now on ya bike sonny just get out of my face
Loonypics 1 year ago
@Loonypics Pharisees imposed law on people, as if salvation were by works, an act of man. That's what pelagianism does.
tiagotrinidad 1 year ago
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@tiagotrinidad UNLIKE YOURSELF I'm NOT is a egotistical, selfrightiousm, religious nutter like you or any other deluded follower of Calvin . Read Romans try ch 10- v9:10 here you will read the TRUE Gospel
NO KINDLY CLEAR OFF I'M NOT INTERESTED IN YOU VERBAL CRAP
IS THAT CLEAR , I WILL NOT REPLY TO YOU AGAIN !
Loonypics 1 year ago
@tiagotrinidad repent of your false semi-Gnostic gospel and heresy. It's odd that you would call Pelagius a heretic when his views align much more with that of the Ante-Nicean church than does the former Gnostic Augustine... the Early church would call you the heretics, because you interpret the Bible just like the fatalistic Gnostics. If you have the free will to do so, read the early church writings prior to Augustine... you stand in contrast with the first 300 years of the church
Loonypics 1 year ago
@tiagotrinidad So I just sit around and what for the call do I ? You can poke CALVIN where the the sun don't shine.
Your Calvinists go out of you're way to BLOCK men from the kindom of God, just like the Pharasies that Jesus rebuked. Well I rebuke you and that murdering swine Calvin that you worship !
Loonypics 1 year ago
@tiagotrinidad Ah, some interesting points that are close to the truth. If you will, allow me to explain. Before the fall we had the 'choice' to obey God or the 'choice' to disobey God. After the fall we still have the 'choice' to obey or disobey. The main difference is that when we 'choose' to 'obey' God sin is magnified in us and when we 'choose' to disobey we are simply reflecting the fallen nature. We need forgiveness and a redeemed nature in order to once again please God. This is truth.
MilanPavkovic1 11 months ago
On the subject of Limited Atonement, I would say this. Christ died for all (every single human being who has ever lived) and the price has been paid. However, believing in the Gospel is is akin to someone cashing in a cheque. Christ may have died for everyone, but unless one personally applies this through repentance and faith it is of no value to them. The atonement is not limited but universal and complete.
MilanPavkovic1 1 year ago
@MilanPavkovic1
i respectfully disagree. no one believes unless God gives him the ability. and God doesn't give everyone that ability. if the atonement is universal, then all are saved.
toobfunnybunny 1 year ago
Hello my friend. Thank you for your response. Scripture teaches, "Whosever will....whosever believes, etc". This implies that man can choose. I have studied calvinism in quite some depth and have understood why good christians of a calvinistic persuasion believe what they do. However, it is my sincere belief that they make certain passages of scripture more difficult to understand that originally intended. Now, I could speak for a long time on the many flaws in Calvinism's theology. Here is one;
MilanPavkovic1 1 year ago
1 of the 5 points of Calvinist theology (I understand that these points were drawn up to refute other teaching), total depravity (I will speak simply about this) teaches that man is dead in sin (indeed it is scriptural) and unable to even make one small movement towards God. He is completely corrupted from head to toe and deserves the just punishment of God. These things have the essence of truth, but they overlook other things. Yes scripture teaches that unless the Father draw you
MilanPavkovic1 1 year ago
you will be unable to come to God. True, but again something is overlooked. Here is what I perceive the problem to be; Total Depravity teaches that man is unable to choose which is itself a misrepresentation of what it means to be dead in sin. When one is dead in sin, it means that all that their nature (Fallen & Sinful) produces, from the choices they make, will be inherently unrighteous and unacceptable to God. All of their righteous deeds will be as filthy rags.
MilanPavkovic1 1 year ago
No matter how hard the person tries to do right(by decisions made according to their god given moral compass; the conscience), the best they choose is born out of a nature that is in opposition to God. This inability of a man to please God through works (born out of the fallen nature) drives the person to a level of despair, seeing that they find in themselves a great inability to please God. They find that they are a slave to sin, unable to unshackle their lives from its dominion.
MilanPavkovic1 1 year ago
@MilanPavkovic1 why would an unbeliever try to please God though (Romans 3:10-12)¿ God would have to open the eyes of them to come to repentance. Also, an unbeliever can do right in a moral sense (which is useless in the end) but that doesn't mean they are righteous in the sight of God.
jtremaine23 11 months ago
@jtremaine23. An unbeliever of course cannot please God because he doesn't even seek Him. However, there are many unbelievers who seek to do what is morally right (the conscience testifies to this) and that is the point at hand. Of course they cannot please God with their works of 'righteousness'. Nevertheless, when the grace of God begins to draw and awaken a person to the reality of their sin the person can resist or begin to deny the truth. I believe my points are very clear.
MilanPavkovic1 11 months ago
@jtremaine23 Therefore, as the grace of God has appeared unto all men (as Christ desire all to be saved and not simply 'all types of men' as calvinism erroneously teaches) some will choose to repent and believe (which drives them to despair) and others will choose to resist and deny the truth of God's grace in Christ.
MilanPavkovic1 11 months ago
@jtremaine23 My comments of the drawing Grace of God are in relation to those who choose yes and agree with the truth that God's grace is revealing.
MilanPavkovic1 11 months ago
@jtremaine23 which makes you religion - calvinism- a sick joke.
TennesseeOwnsMyBones 10 months ago
They are fully aware that sin has dominion and mastery over them (because the natural man cannot please God in that it's very nature has been cursed), and after countless efforts in trying to justify themselves before a holy God (whom is already drawing them at this stage; they are making the choice to follow this drawing), they come to the realisation (through God's active work) that they indeed are sinners who deserve hell.
MilanPavkovic1 1 year ago
All along they are making decisions that they hope will justify them before God, but because of their inherently evil nature the results are undeserving of God's approval. So when they finally decide (to each man is given a measure of faith, and god is willing that none should perish) to accept Christ as their Lord and saviour through the hearing of the gospel as it is preached by faithful ministers, they are born again. All along, God has been drawing the believer to repentance.
MilanPavkovic1 1 year ago
Now I have more to say on total depravity, but I will stop there. Just because a person is dead indeed in sin, it does not mean that his power of choice has been revoked. Otherwise, how could a just God demand accountability from human beings if they themselves were not responsible for their choices and how could they be held responsible for their decisions if their will was not free to respond to the Grace of God. This grace the bible says has appeared unto all men.
MilanPavkovic1 1 year ago
If you dismantle even one of the 5 points of TULIP, calvinism fails. Again, dead in sin does not imply that their ability to choose is dead. Rather, it implies that their ability to please God and truly do good is dead (their own nature's giving birth to all kinds of evil). This is my best explanation. It can be hard work dismantling some of this stuff, but eventually it can be very rewarding. God bless you and hope to hear from you soon.
MilanPavkovic1 1 year ago
@toobfunnybunny The CORE of Arminianism is NOT free will but semi-pelagianism salvation by works- in other words- the satanic doctrine of "lose your salvation" Read The Other Side of Calvinism by Dr. Laurence M. Vance- he repudiates BOTH Calvinism AND Arminianism!!!!!!!
barrypatrickius 1 year ago
@MilanPavkovic1
I like your analogy :) Praise God.... I cashed my check a long time ago. It's the best thing i did. Surely the Lord has been good to me.
God bless.
changeishere2008 9 months ago
There are many stratagems by which the devil contrives to keep men away from Christ.
3NUNS 1 year ago
The way to heaven is through Jesus Christ!! No other way!!
matt1987401 1 year ago
I'm a Christian....
matt1987401 1 year ago
I am NOT an arminian; I do NOT believe in "lose your salvation"(salvation by WORKS) but ALL five points of calvinisn are unscriptural, heretical, and extremely harmful. That's all.
barrypatrickius 1 year ago
@barrypatrickius
if you believe that all five points are heretical, then you are an arminian. deny the term if you will, but you are an arminian.
toobfunnybunny 1 year ago
@barrypatrickius
Please expose it. That is what i do when I get a chance to be on you tube.
changeishere2008 9 months ago
I do NOT believe in "lose your salvation"(herersy and blasphemy) but calvinism= devil worship
barrypatrickius 1 year ago
@barrypatrickius can you explain. i dont want an argument. i just want to know what you mean.
tercelkisor 1 year ago
@barrypatrickius Very we said mate
Loonypics 1 year ago
@Loonypics You Calvanist people believe God is the auther of good & evil.
I've read Calvin. No man can do anything other than what God has ordained. This put you in a tight spot, because the above claim MUST be true.
You have to believe that young kids / babies that die will burn in HELL.
Your doctrine undeniably proves & a god.
My God is the God of Abraham / Jesus aka YAYHWH - Who is yours ?
So your god (small g) is both satan
Loonypics 1 year ago
Dear friends. I think the bottom line is that there is no part of Sacred Scripture that directly defends sola scriptura or sola fide. Parts you may quote are open to multiple interpretations, and hence require an infallible authority to interpret them. Otherwise, we're left in the mud of relativism and/or speculation. Christ gave full authority to St. Peter for such a task. This full authority includes the power to hand on his authority. This authority is the Catholic Church.
helpyouseeit 1 year ago
@helpyouseeit More satan worshipping blasphemy from the mind control roman catholic cult- DON'T think- we'll do the thinking for you and tell you what to think and believe!!
barrypatrickius 1 year ago
@barrypatrickius Whats funny is barry's theology is close to Roman Catholicism, rather than Calvinism being so, lol!
A
skalapunk 1 year ago
What denomination of evolution are you a part of.
xcommunicate 1 year ago
@xcommunicate he chooses you ypu dont choose him
12jahwarrior 1 year ago
I never heard the word 'Calvinist' until I watched a video on youtube (not this one). I'm making this comment b4 I watch this video, but so far I really don't see what the big deal is. I'm hoping to do some research when I have time, but if you're Christian and following the Bible...
I just have one question - why the name 'Calvinist?' I know about John Calvin, but 'Calvinist' makes it sound like you're under his authority instead of Christ's. Not saying u are, just that it sounds that way.
moonsailor500 1 year ago
@moonsailor500
Please don't fall for the evils of calvinism. John Calvin and his agents are not teaching what Yeshua thought. They also hated Jews so much they wanted them wiped out. it's all over the internet you can read about it.
Be blessed in the name of Yeshua
changeishere2008 9 months ago
At least Presbyterians are usually intelligent, even if they are "frozen chosen" and condescending elitists. Baptist Calvinists tend to have twice the zeal, half the intellect, and the same nauseous airs of theological superiority.
*sigh* Another reason not to be a Baptist. :/
ElasticGiraffe 1 year ago
@ElasticGiraffe
agree with you. so true.
changeishere2008 9 months ago
Let the Bible speak, I agree, all who say they believe-BELIEVE IT! YHVH has His Power one doesn't need a man's understanding, doctrinal belief! He is THE DOCTOR [PHYSICIAN,HEALER & ALL IT SAYS]
YHVHnMe 1 year ago
I do not understand anything this man is saying. 2 Peter 3:9 says the Lord is not willing that any should perish but that all should come to repentance. Salvation is a free gift to anyone who chooses to partake of it through obedience to His Word. We are all free moral agents who have a choice to obey or not to obey. God does not make that choice for us.
horseman528 1 year ago
yeah stop making sucha fuss plz people. yeah calvin was cute and at least he stopped working for the police lots them bit naughty they shot heroin and crack like the cia. but he died get over it inshallah/g-d willing he bee back. trust me i may be bit crazy but it happened recent with mi cat. hollyoaks is cool but reality is lot better and healthier..bless ya brutha lane nice channell...peace, mich X
Hosanna1Love 1 year ago
calvinism doesnt save anyone, neither does armianism..only Jesus saves
sola scriptura!!
Tomsedated 1 year ago
@Tomsedated
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Well sure, that's a given. But now after we are saved and are growing in the word of God, there are questions that need to be answered and discussed about the doctrines of Scripture. God gave us the wonderful gift of His word in which He has disclosed many wonderful things. Shame on us if we don't take the time to be devout and study His word, right? :)
AgApE010 1 year ago
@AgApE010 i tottally agree with bro, we need to study the whole Word of God
but to reduce the supernatural work of God on salvation/redemption by callin it armianism or calvinism doesnt seem like such a good bible study, specially when salvation is such a beatiful work of our Great and Infinite God,i dont think it can be explained by 5 or even 10 points.
Tomsedated 1 year ago
@Tomsedated
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The name itself is just for simplicity of understanding. For example, it's easier to say you believe in the Trinity than to say you believe in one God eternally existing as three distinct, not separate, co-equal-co-eternal persons, in perfect unity, etc. Same thing with using the title "Calvinism."
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Then how many points are needed to explain the doctrines of grace? 15? 20? Or can we even understand what His word says concerning this?
AgApE010 1 year ago
@AgApE010 ok then fair enough...
the number of points would be proportional to the number of sins we've commited lol
i can even understand why some ppl belive in calvinism, armianism..but explaining the love of God and grace, thats beyond our undersdanding - ephesians 3:19 =D
Tomsedated 1 year ago
@AgApE010
Run away from False doctrine and Let Yeshua set you free. calvin had Michael Servitis killed at a stake he has been long gone. it's better to say I am a follower of Jesus Christ.
God Bless you
changeishere2008 9 months ago
@changeishere2008
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I don't follow Calvin. I am a follower of Christ. You don't understand this discussion within Christianity. Basically, there are two views of what the Bible teaches about the details of salvation and God's role in it: the way Augustine, Luther, and Calvin understood it (this is known as Calvinism) or the way Pelagius, Arminius, and Wesley understood it (this is called Arminianism). I agree with the former, that that si the way the Word of God teaches. That's all.
AgApE010 9 months ago
@AgApE010 Saying that 'this is what the Word of God teaches' does not make it so. There are plenty of discrepancies in Calvinist theology, the primary one being that for the calvinist system to work, God is the author of sin. I know calvinists will bolt at the thought and go out of their way to claim that 'this is not the case', but that's the logical end conclusion is the same. Calvin himself, in his Institution, tried to get away with it by claiming that 'God wills and wills not' at the
TennesseeOwnsMyBones 9 months ago
at the same time. Calvinism has biblical tenets, sure. So does Arianism and gnosticism.
TennesseeOwnsMyBones 9 months ago
@TennesseeOwnsMyBones
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God is certainly not actively causing sin. I assume this is what you mean by "author." But that He decrees all things, including the sinful acts of men, is evident throughout the Scriptures. Such a topic can't be discussed properly in this forum. If you're interested in debating this issue, we can do so on PalTalk. I'd be more than happy to defend Biblical doctrine and tear down your heresies on there. That is, if you accept my challenge. If you don't, simply be gone.
AgApE010 9 months ago
@AgApE010 The warmth of calvinism oozes from your comment, which displays that typical brand on theological arrogance. We don't need to take this to PalTalk. We can debate this right here. Especially since you are so steadfast in your own correctness. In advance, I'll tell you that I have heard every excuse in the book. You're not dealing with a novice here. Therefore, your spiked words have little effect on me as well. Just answer the question.
TennesseeOwnsMyBones 9 months ago
@TennesseeOwnsMyBones
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It is you who is being arrogant in arguing about something that you obviously have not even bothered to read a systematic theology on. There's nothing arrogant on my part about being confident in the Word of God.
Yes, we do need to go to PalTalk because a text-only forum like this one is not suitable for such a discussion. In my experience, discussing these topics here only turn out to be frustratingly unclear and fruitless.
What are you worried about if you'e right?
AgApE010 9 months ago
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TennesseeOwnsMyBones 9 months ago
@AgApE010 Again, dodging the obvious with sly references to systematic theology (which is about as adequate in debunking the logical end conclusion of calvinism as is reason) or the Word of God does not intimidate me. I have actually read Calvin's work. Have you? Have you gone beyond the Institution and read the man's bible commentaries? If not, I suggest you do this first before you start aligning calvinism with 'gospel truth'. And no, I don't get frustrated here. This medium is fine.
TennesseeOwnsMyBones 9 months ago
@TennesseeOwnsMyBones
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Alright, we're done here than. I explained why this forum is not suitable and you wish to remain stubborn. If you change your mind, let me know. Otherwise, please stop commenting to me thereby filling my inbox with trash.
AgApE010 9 months ago
@AgApE010 I'm not surprised by your disposition. Not at all. The hardline calvinist seems to hold up Calvin as a pope, even a godhead himself. Whenever someone actually throws back actual words from the man himself, the calvinist responds with bitterness and contempt. Then again, as you are so obviously part of the elect, I am sure that you think your disdain of those who disagree with you somehow is a divine perogative. Pretty much like Calvin thought his was burning Servetus to death.
TennesseeOwnsMyBones 9 months ago
@AgApE010 As a faithful follower of satanic doctrine you purposely ignore the correct, third view- that of non-calvinistic Baptists and Plymoth Brethren (I guess some Pentecostals who don't believe in the devil worship of "lose your salvation"too). Calvinism is pure satan worship, it is blasphemy of hell. So is arminianism/Pelagianism. Baptists like John Rice, Curtis Hutson, Hugh Pyle are NOT lose your salvation. "arminian works-devils" . Other Side of Calvanism by Vance(more listed)
barrypatrickius 9 months ago
(more Biblical books) What love is this? Dave Hunt(His other works too) The Dark Side of Calvinism. George Bryson, C. Gordon Olson: "Beyond Calvinism and Arminianism" and "Getting the Gospel Right: A Balanced View of Salvation Truth", Why I Disagree With All fFve Points of Calvinism BY CURTIS HUTSON, Hyper-Calvinism: A False Doctrine -By Dr. John R. Rice (also Predestined for Hell?) and The Deadly Flower (T.U.L.I.P.) -- Dr. Gregory O. Baker
barrypatrickius 9 months ago
As George Bryson said, "To sum up calvinsim: you are damned FOR all eternity because you were damned FROM(that is, BEFORE) all eternity!"
barrypatrickius 9 months ago
@barrypatrickius
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You're a vile creature. Be gone with such ignorance and spitting of venom.
AgApE010 9 months ago
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@AgApE010 Wow... you really are enforcing the stereotype of the calvinist hardliner... Then again, the man himself was no slouch when it came to brutality; "[Servetus] takes it upon him to come hither, if it be agreeable to me. But I am unwilling to pledge my word for his safety, for if he shall come, I shall never permit him to depart alive, provided my authority be of any avail." Calvin to Farel, 1546. Case closed.
TennesseeOwnsMyBones 9 months ago
@AgApE010 yes.. you are right.. but clearly we are instucted not to argue over baptisms or doctrines but in the bond of peace to press in and seek HIS FACE.. not seek for ways to prove ourselves right. This is pride; and it doesn't take a "saved" person to see that. If Paul behaved like this; no one would have heard the word of God through him; "COMPEL THEM" to come; He uses His people; he does not float in on clouds; let's behave like we are His Children; tenderhearted towards one another.
marymieres 1 year ago
@marymieres
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No, we are instructed over not arguing over useless superstitions. When the apostles met together in Acts 15 to discuss Gentiles and their relation to Mosaic Law, was that prideful? Or was it prideful when Paul argued for orthodox doctrine to the Corinthians?
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"If Paul behaved like this no one would have heard the word"
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No, we don't preserve the Bible's doctrines at the expense of not preaching the Gospel. You maintain both, as Paul did.
AgApE010 1 year ago
We are "totally depraved"??? Geez, what an absurd, pathetic, self-hating concept!!!
Listening to this ridiculous talk reminds of how humans are endlessly creative when it comes to hating themselves and making up the most convoluted lies with which to abuse themselves and, most importantly, to abuse and control OTHERS!!!
ManchuDan22 1 year ago
@ManchuDan22
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We don't hate ourselves, we're just intellectually honest.
AgApE010 1 year ago
@AgApE010 Gee, you're pretty nice to yourself, aren't you? You are "totally depraved" BUT that's OK??
what kind of god creates you as "totally depraved", then demands YOU be better? Or is your god just a depraved as you are and enjoys the evil you do?
You're "intellectually honest"?? What a joke, FAITH is the exact opposite of intellectual! You believe without evidence, read mistranslated fairy tales from a book we don't have the original of.
OH YEAH, you're an intellectual.
ManchuDan22 1 year ago
@ManchuDan22
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Oh brother, another atheist. I should've figured. Get off of YouTube and go read some books, for crying out loud. Cause this whole "faith is delusional; fairy tales etc" is just childish and reeks of ignorance. Start with Berlinski's The Devil's Delusion, WLC's Reasonable Faith, or SOMETHING. Just get your brain working cause we're tired of the same old thrice-refuted objections from you guys. You're worse than the Muslims in your lack of knowledge.
AgApE010 1 year ago
@AgApE010 OH, Very Good! Going right to the insults without even trying to refute my questions! Just ignoring valid points, because YOU don't have any answers.
Even the stupidest Christians TRY to respond, you can't even do that.
Don't list books (that someone read to you) because YOU can't articulate a concise, literate response.
Berlinski? Please! he's just rock thrower, who put his anger on paper, without any positive points.
YOU say god exists, the burden of proof is YOURS!
ManchuDan22 1 year ago
@ManchuDan22
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*Sigh* I've spent countless hours debating atheists on YouTube and PalTalk. After getting the SAME objections EACH and EVERY time that are already answered by every Theistic writer, it gets to the point where you can't put your face any deeper into your palm. So I'll just have to excuse myself from this debate. Now if you happen to read any good works and can thus make informed objections and ask intelligent questions, we'll talk.
AgApE010 1 year ago
@AgApE010 you can't seem to defend you own position, so here's some guidance, "Non Belief & Evil" by T. Drange. Which logically proves there can be NO god as described in the Bible.
1.Obviously god wants worship, then why are there millions of non-believers in the world?
2.As Ehrman details in "God's Problem", why does god allow enormous suffering in the world? Free Will does not apply to those killed by Tsunamis.
3.There is no original ver. of the bible where do YOU get your "truth"?
ManchuDan22 1 year ago
@ManchuDan22
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"you can't seem to defend your own position"
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No, I'm capable to the task. I just said that I don't wish to get into another debate here, so I won't. I'm in no obligation to carry on with you just because you got a wild hair. But like I said, if you present some informed arguments, we'll discuss. But don't come to me with any of this elementary schoolyard fussing.
AgApE010 1 year ago
@AgApE010 No, you're not capable, based on the vacuous comments you've advanced here. You have a very arrogant view of your own intellect, NOT justified by anything you've written here.
I've asked some very basic "faith" questions which others have had thoughtful points on. You simply whine about how it's all beneath you, and insult me. I have commented on your page (which you censored, making you an intellectual coward)
Yes, religion suits you; arrogant without reason / faith in myth
ManchuDan22 1 year ago
@ManchuDan22
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No, not arrogance; I just don't feel like debating another hair-brained atheist whose entire exposure to the theistic position is based on YouTube comment threads. And I censor my comments to prevent those who post vulgarities on my channel. You want to know how belief in God is logical? Get off the computer and read one of the works I mentioned. In the end, if you won't consider reading *them,* you definitely won't consider anything *I* have to say here.
AgApE010 1 year ago
@AgApE010
I urge you to read more about calvin's false teaching. I pray you will come to find out the truth. Jesus has paid all sins.
changeishere2008 9 months ago
@changeishere2008
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I have read about Calvin's *teachings.* He does have *some* wrong views, but the bulk of his theology is Biblical.
I'm sorry, but these little meaningless comments are a waste of time. Please don't respond to me with such.
AgApE010 9 months ago
@AgApE010 The bulk of Calvin's theology being that the character of God is either evil in intent (author of sin) or ambiguous ("God wills and wills not at the same time"). For the calvinist dogma of double predestination to work, the end result remains that God is the author of sin, not man. Centuries now calvinists have been dodging the question, and never have they adequately answered it.
TennesseeOwnsMyBones 9 months ago
@AgApE010 I'm not here to defend crazy ranty guy, but would just like to point out that atheists on average by one poll knew more than Christians about Christianity. One poll does not give statistical significance, and you surely know more than most atheists, but the charge that "you're worse than the Muslims in your lack of knowledge" is demonstrably wrong. And really, saying "another atheist" is kind of insulting. You're fault for responding to a troll. ;P
theclinger 1 year ago
@theclinger Typo, your, not you're... so stupid.
theclinger 1 year ago
@theclinger
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I've heard such things. But what poll is this and who are the ones being interviewed? In my exposure to atheists both here and on PalTalk over the years, I honestly have not met even one who has any significant knowledge of the Bible. It is always uninformed remarks from atheistic writers who themselves don't know the Bible. And I know it's from atheistic writers because I read those same writers! :P (Have to stay ahead of the curve when speaking to atheists!).
AgApE010 1 year ago
@ManchuDan22
Please run away from calvinism it's a falsehood.
changeishere2008 9 months ago
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@changeishere2008 said "Please run away from calvinism it's a falsehood".
Yes, yes it is but "lose your salvation" is devil too!!!!
barrypatrickius 9 months ago
@ManchuDan22
That's why I protect my children from this type of abusive teaching and mind manupilation i hope people will awaken to this sick calvinism teaching.
changeishere2008 9 months ago
(continued) God is not an indian giver, He doesnt take back his gifts, and our relationship with him is not based on our performance(WORKS, WORKS,WORKS! ) God will DISCPLINE, misbehaving, lazy but truly saved believers but will not make a believer unsaved nor take back his love, grace and SALVATION!!!.
barrypatrickius 9 months ago
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@changeishere2008 said, " That's why I protect my children from this type of abusive teaching and mind manupilation i hope people will awaken to this sick calvinism teaching"
You are doing good, very good, but you must ALSO protect them from the BLASPHEMY of "lose your salvation".
barrypatrickius 9 months ago
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barrypatrickius 9 months ago
My friend ,when was the last time you prayed the Rosary or went to see a priest for confession?
GirlFromIpanema1966 1 year ago
@GirlFromIpanema1966 Why would you go to a priest? Are you looking to be sexually abused?
ManchuDan22 1 year ago
@GirlFromIpanema1966 .. wondered if you can help me out here...
I can't find either of those suggestions anywhere .. in all my bible reading. Please point me to the place in scripture where either one of those is mentioned.
If I can go straight to the ONE who forgives for confession.. why go to a man? The Rosary is not mentioned in the bible ONE TIME. it is a religion that instructs such an act. not Christ or even any Apostle.
marymieres 1 year ago
oooo, i know, i know, Calvinism is one of satans biggest doctrine of demons thus far
PureGraceEvangelism 1 year ago
@PureGraceEvangelism why do you say that?
MrSiklon762 1 year ago
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PLEASE DONT READ THIS. YOU WILL GET KISSED ON THE NEAREST POSSIBLE FRIDAY BY THE LOVE OF YOUR LIFE. TOMORROW WILL BE THE BEST DAY OF YOUR LIFE. HOWEVER IF YOU DONT POST THIS COMMENT TO AT LEAST 3 VIDEOS YOU WILL DIE WITHIN 2 DAYS. NOW UV STARTED READIN DIS DUNT STOP THIS IS SO SCARY. SEND THIS OVER TO 5 VIDEOS IN 143 MINUTES WHEN UR DONE PRESS F6 AND UR CRUSHES NAME WILL APPEAR ON THE SCREEN IN BIG LETTERS. THIS IS SO SCARY CAUSE IT ACTUALLY WORKs
Msfunny102 1 year ago
This IS the end of the SBC. I can hardly imagine a more enervating notion then this truly fatalistic notion. Read The Next Christendom, the world of the future will soon be divided between Pentacostals & Catholics. Why fuss over these rhetorical poses of the 16th cent.? It is like arguing over Monophysitism.
VictorLepanto 1 year ago
I believe in the T.U.L.I.P. I do not believe in infant baptism. I do not believe that the church is the new Israel. I am not anti-semite. The doctrine of TULIP is all through the pages of scripture. Election has been taught since Cain & Able.
reginaDexant 1 year ago