Arvanites are discussing in Salamina island of Greece

[dangerousnick1]

. actually greeks were slaves of ali pasha tepelana SURE ...SURE WE WHERE BUT LOOK WHAT HAPPENT AT THE END EPIRUS IS GREEK.

[rahamdavenp1230g]

This vid is a favorite on BissauBissau

[jessehaley615]

This video is a favorite on Massachusetts

[MrAbagaz]

80 000 arvanite speakers...in a total of 11 million greeks...great amount!!arvanites are albanian speakers of greek national conciousness after 700 years of living in proximity to the Greeks...there is nothing albanian in them but their language...JUST ACCEPT IT

[korca8albania]

ohh look they are translating an arvanite in greek language???? why i thought arvanites are "greeks" hahahahagagagagaggagagagaggaag­aga greeks you are an egyptic race....arvanites are albanian and they speak albanian, they hold the wealth of greece

[MrBurrimir]

@korca8albania

You are "arvanitis" too; in Greek, Albanians are referred parallely as "alvani" and "arvanites" they are synonymous words, that's what official linguistic claims.

That's the reason why many habitant of Albania are referred as "arvanites" in Greek literature, even muslim Albanian ali pasha was called like this.

[MrBurrimir]

@korca8albania

Nowadays, as least about 4 decades, Greek propaganda was trying to separate ineffectively the 2 terms nevertheless they have the same meaning, facts are facts and history doesn't change.

Albanians should read especially more history books and don't be so naive, otherwise you will always be victim of your own destiny.

[Tolisakis97]

@korca8albania the arvanites are not greeks..

by blood they are albanians..

but by soul they are greeks..

they are hellenized albanians..so simple..

their language is tranlated in the video because they use albanian words..

they dont speak a clear language..

they speak a greek-albanian mix..

[Tolisakis97]

@korca8albania /watch?v=SnhntwRxIV0&feature=r­elated

arvanitika..

greek-albanian mix..

as you see..

the song is greek styl(which is very close to the albanian cause of the relationship we had(illyrians and greeks)).

we are closer than you think dude..

[korca8albania]

@Tolisakis97 listen buddy, the song is a greek version of the albanian one....todays greek folk music and costumes are and originated from albanians and turks from the ottoman empire, there is nothing in your culture related to ancient greece beside those ROCKS that are found there...during the ottoman empire greeks/slavs hod no rights what so ever........who control the ottoman empire were the turks and albanians.... actually greeks were slaves of ali pasha tepelana

[Tolisakis97]

@korca8albania yes i know about ali pasha..cause im from Konitsa(epirus,near Ioannena)

dude you are wrong..

we havent taken anything from you..ill explain you why..

but firstly ill tell you about the turks..

not the turks were the bosses of the greeks but the orthodox priests..

these motherfuckers were the traitors..

as about our culture..

its the same with the ancient greeks..except the religional thema

the language and everything else is normal greek

from the turks we just took some foods

[Tolisakis97]

@korca8albania and some words.. as about the words.. we use them but there are also greek words for that.. its normally..after 400 years that we know some words.. dont imagine.. only some words.. not theories.. as about the albanians.. how can we have taken something from someone which is the same with us?? you didnt understand.. hmm well let me tell you that with another way. WE ARE THE SAME:. Remember your history.. remember where you came from.. remember who was fighting with you..

[Tolisakis97]

@korca8albania WE ARE ALL PELASGIAN::

DAMN IT:::!!

YOU COULD BE MY COUSIN::

realize that....

we are the SAME!!!

we were all pelasgians..

but some pelasgians went north and became the ancient greeks..

and the other who stayed back became the great illyrians(albanians)

[dangerousnick1]

MR turk albania albino turk egypt marockan bitch keep you mouth closes now and go back to work to your greek bosses ok?

Arvanites are greeks why translate the language bitch? Cause greeks and arvanites the ones the pure arvanites the ones who where GREEK ORTHODOX CHRISTIANS.. the ones you turk albanian called GRECO LEAVED TOGETHER FOUGHT TOGETHER AND BITCH SPOKE GREEK ARVANITE DIALECT . You are just a little egypt marockan mixed up fuckt up bald albino blond turk...

now work..

[korca8albania]

@dangerousnick1 hahahhahaha greeks are an egyptic race....look at ancient greek architecture and look at egypt.....modern greeks are albanians...albanians created the first greek government of what we call greece.....albanians liberated "greece" from turkey and what greeks have done to greece, put their country in DEBT, the true spirit of democracy hahahahahahhaaha before you call any albanian turk, look at yourself because no one can identify a turk and greek, they all the same 500 ottoman rule

[startmain]

Ego katallaveno olon afti tin glosa..Ine ola Albanika glosa afti ,,omos palia .Efkaristo poli

[albanians2unite]

Arvanites should indeed have a special status in northern Greece

[sacrumillyricum]

@albanians2unite

Arvanites do not live in northern Greece. They populate exactly the regions populated by Dorians (Spartans) during ancient times. They are massively found in Attica (60 villages or so, around Athens), in Patras (around 40 villages), in Boeotia (around 40 villages), in Corinth (around 30 villages), in Peloponnese (more than 100 villages), also in many many islands like Andros, Poros, Salamis, Hydra, Spetses, Euboea, Napflios, etc. In northern Greece there are the orthodox chams

[albanians2unite]

@albanians2unite aha ok,i though that chams are arvanitas as well,sad they do not resist for saving own arberesh language,they really should do more for protecting own culture language and heritage

[notgodsemigod]

...not to mention that the bones of your massacred albanian ancestors are shaking when you call Suliotes Albanians, you have to realise that you disrespect the memory of your own ancestors! Incredible!

[notgodsemigod]

As for Macedonians you are getting even deeper in the mud... you are ready to deny the 10s of 1000s of findings in Macedonia as well as all the findings from Macedonian east to India and even up to western China were Macedonian soldiers reached. You will have to explain each of these 100,000S of findings showing Greek, Greek and again Greek. I am sorry, you lose once again... it is not my fault if you have defective education.

Stop being a greek hater and face up historic reality.

[notgodsemigod]

... but that won't change the fact that he was Greek-Serbian (i.e. what you dreaded most!). Sorry. Your historians would have to invent something placing him to speak of his as-if albanian roots, however Kastriotis only spoke of his greek ancestry, of his Eastern Roman affiliation and of his love for his homeland Epirus. Funny that he was never mentioned to speak of any Albanian nation. For him, Albanians would be just working hands...

[notgodsemigod]

As for proving how Greek was Kastiotis, what can I say? His mother was Serbian. His father though was Greek. Ioannis Kastriotis was son of Konstantinos Kastriotis who - guess what loser! (sorry, here you lose) - was NOT from a family based in Kruje, Albania but from a noble family of Kastoria, in western Macedonia. Guess now how they took their name - cos their real links were traced even to Komnenian despots of Epirus and Komnenian Emperors.

Wanna claim Komnenians Albanians too? Give it a try!

[notgodsemigod]

Oh... on the ancestry of Georgios Kastriotis, it was Pope Pius himself that spoke. No need to argue that this pope had any interest to make a Greek out of an Albanian... really... all that circus is becoming rotten... you have at some point to go sort out your mess yourselfs, just do not get occupied with history when you cannot comprehend even the basics.

[dardha]

@notgodsemigod He was the leader of epirotes, King of Albania and of course the predecesor of the Great A;exander e Pirro.

Do you honestly call Macedoninans Greek? My o my, You are just mamazing.

Pirro of the tribe of Mollosi is now Greek too?

Check Attila the Hun, he might turn out to be from Athens :o)

[notgodsemigod]

@dardha Macedonians and Epirots were and are Greek. I won't even discuss that with a Greek-hater like you who is willing to reject every singly piece of absolute proof that exists : i.e. some 50 to 80,000 inscriptions found in Macedonia and an equal number found in Epirus - the 100% of them in Greek. We know what dialects were spoken in Macedonian and Epirus and these were the same spoken in Aetolia as well - its called Dorian mate. Wanna call Dorians Albanians too?

[notgodsemigod]

Are you so afraid that all the south of your country is North Epirus, a Greek land? You fear losing it and that is why you are up to this aggressive propaganda of trying to convince yourselfs (but you can't convince even yourselfs) that Epirus was Albanian. Albanowhat? Where is the Albanian trace? Even your hypothetic ancestors (nothing proven yet), Illyrians in fact lived in what is today south Montenegro, Kosovo and nothern Albania. You dig Albania all over and keep finding Greek.

[notgodsemigod]

@notgodsemigod If you ever find ANY non-Greek inscription in mid-southern Balkans please call me. Till them try and scape the Greek writings you keep finding in your country just like your """archaiologists""" had been doing under Hotza... I remember a story from a Greek North Epirot who was working in such a dig: they had yet once again found Greek and the Albanian chief ordered to destroy them by saying "Keep digging, these are Greek, ours are older and deeper".... they still keep digging..he!

[dardha]

@notgodsemigod Still, give me historians who makes such a claim, please, no Greek nonsense.

And really, Macedonians had nothing to do with Greeks. They were an entire nation altogether, they were called barbarians(foreigners) by Greeks themselves.

Even now, Macedonians of today (please don't give me that Bulgarian rubbish) don't feel Greek, and have a clear Macedonian conscience. You Greeks have e sick tendency to claim others and other as you own.

Gjergj a Greek hahahahahaha what an idiot!

[notgodsemigod]

@dardha WTF you need historians? I bring you to the record of Pope Pius II who spoke about Kastriotis and mentioned his family. The Kastriotis paternal line was from Greek despots of the region of Kastoria and their family had links to the extended Komnenian family line. From his maternal line he was Serbian. Have him as your hero, it won't change his origins, nor will his consciousness.

You are extremely funny;...

[dardha]

@notgodsemigod Hahahahahahah, ohhh man, you are funny. Now what on earth are you talking about? hahahahahahahahahaah...have you got a comic nearby when making this claims?

I said refer to something, a historian, a book and don't do a Greek thing and make up everything yourself :o)

But even this is just plain funny.

Hahahahahahahah...

[notgodsemigod]

@dardha Pope Pius II mentioned the place of origins of Georgios Kastriotis speaking of his grandfather, Konstantinos Kastriotis Greek despot of - guess what - Kastoria.

Sorry you lose once again.

[notgodsemigod]

@dardha You have to understand that I am not interested in denying you your hero. Have him. For me he was a feudal leader of Greek-Serbian origins and of byzantine-greek conscioussness. The Greek element of his conscioussness was noted by his insistence on noting Alexander the Great and Phyrrus - these great ancient Greek kings - as his ancestors, real ancestors, not just inspirations.

Sorry you lose again, but no your hero had no Albanian conscioussness and of course no Albanian origins.

[notgodsemigod]

One of the heros of Greek revolution was Lord Byron, an english romantic poet. We never claimed him to be Greek though, we know he was English and that out of his romantic ideology about people getting their freedom and his love for the Greek culture he did what he did. However, Kastriotis, did what he did mostly for his own personal benefit.

As such he is really fitting to be a hero of Albanians. If you know aht I mean.

[dardha]

@notgodsemigod Non the less , let's sum this up, your "history", typically in a Greek fashion, is based on a hear say and nothing, absolutely nothing is provable. And I understand why.

You entire modern identity(because hellenes you certainly are not) is build on Albanian contribution. In order to deny that clear contribution you (Greek establishment that is) have so much efforts put in place to unveil true nature of modern Greece, which is profoundly Albanian.

[notgodsemigod]

@dardha It is extremely funny that you are trying to call all Greeks Albanians on the basis of 80,000 Arvanites (in a body of more than 5 million Greeks in the space of Greece, about 10 milion Greeks back then if I count the Greeks outside Greece...).

Apparently you hate Greeks. From your sayings you consider Greeks an allien race to yours, that is visible. Yet, for the exact reason you consider yourself inferior to a Greek, you are trying to call the Greek Albanian....

Amazing low self esteem

[notgodsemigod]

But the sad for you reality is that Arvanites had spoken on themselves and had mentioned one thing: "We are Greeks".

As simple as that. Like all the rest Greeks they fought and died for Greece.

If you have any knowledge of the contrary please please bring one, just one reference of one Arvanite leader that ever declared being anything else than a Greek.

IF YOU HAD YOU WOULD HAD ALREADY DONE IT.

In the internet I have never seen ANY albanian doing so!

GUESS WHY!

[dardha]

@notgodsemigod Saying that, is there a point arguing with brainwashed person? I still think it's worth it since , maybe not of your guilt, entire generations of Greeks have been raised on lies and made up historical facts. I don't tell you to read Albanian version, Read more unbiased history, go through British libraries and you are for a shock.

Even though I think deep down you know the truth, or at least have a feel for it but cannot accept the pain it will bring.

Or maybe release?

[dardha]

@notgodsemigod As said so much in previous posts, Albanian have nothing to claim. In regards to military efforts they qere second to none. They were the military elite of not but several empires, running as their own countries from Egypt, Syria, Turkey, Greece and the rest of Balkans.

Their decline was due to Russian and other European nations in the fateful decisions of Berlin.

It seems that that mistake is being repaired gradually

Arberor shall rise again, my Greek. :o).

[dardha]

@dardha When Byron went through his journey through Balkans he PERSONALLY met with Suliotes and other Arberor. In letters to his mum he tells her that they wear the mos fantastic Albanian kilt and that they WERE ALBANIAN. Now, this is a man who had them as personal guards, this is a man who died with them and knew their sentiments and their conscious better than anyone. Arberor had Albanian soncienece before the Greek War of Independence. Clear as a daylight!

[dardha]

@dardha Only after that, with great effort of Greek Asians they were made to identify with church and, as is the case with all Greeks who have a dimmed idea where church stops and nation begins, they were made to see their Muslim brethren as different due to their religion. That is way the Greeks invented the term TurkAlbanian which is a nonsense but works towards Arberor to convince them that people in Albania are different.

[notgodsemigod]

@dardha You are really pathetic:

For you a romantic english poet raised in a rosy-culture that would recognise a Greek only if he spoke.... Attic Greek (!) tells "the truth" and knows more than.... Suliotes themselves who claimed Greek, Greek and again Greek.

Go read what Mpotzaris wrote on himself and Suliotes and go ask your ancestors Ali Pasha and his family why they were calling Suliotes "Greek fanatics".

It is fantastic how you refuse to comment what SOULIOTES THEMSELVES WROTE!!!

[notgodsemigod]

@dardha as for the military prowess of Albanians we have seen it:

Battle of Gravia inn: 118 Greeks against 8,000 Albanians...

guess what was the result...

I do not even need to mention the Dervenakia where 7,000 Greeks cleared out with particular ease an army of 45,000 Turkalbanians (mainly Albanians)..... 7,000 Greeks against 45,000 Albanians was apparently VERY unfair to Albanians...

You are "second to none" yet, you attacked Greeks ONLY under crusaders, Ottomans, Italians...pff!

[notgodsemigod]

@dardha ... the only thing that will rise again is your hand to ask for hand outs by USA and Turkey... dream on idiot... your luck ended with Kosovo - which apparently will never become part of your country (if it was to become, the procedure would had happened already). Things turn in affairs and from the one day to the other you can find yourselfs "on the other side" and there, give one reason to your neighbours to feel pitty for you.

Who cares about Albanians.... a meaningless little tribe

[notgodsemigod]

My advice for you is to remain the beggars you are to Italians. Keep working in Greece, keep earning Greek money and keep swearing at the ones that feed you. Keep being sunk in the sea by Italians and keep adoring them as your gods.

You are THAT pathetic really. Do not wish to make you feel like shit, but that is where you are! And on top you have this need to re-construct an imaginary past for you to feel better? Do yourselfs a favour and get a self-esteem. It wil aid the situation.

[notgodsemigod]

All the rest is just pathetic efforts of Albanians to remake history, to create a hypothetic imaginary past so that they feel better when they have to compare their history with that of their neighbours.

Nothing strange: in Balkans we have seen it again and again and again. Turks had done, it, Bulgarians had done it, Serbians had done it, and now Albanians have their turn.

But the uderlying reality is that we keep digging Greek, Greek, Greek and again Greek - a depressing reality for Albanians

[notgodsemigod]

However, Kastriotis himself is yet another man who AFTER HIS DEATH was albanised while himself had never declared anything else than a Greek (he did numerous times references to ancient Greece, Alexander & Phyrrus mentioning them as his genetic ancestors, not just as his inspirations...).

Fact is of course Albanians nowadays to explain that discrepancy try to even usurp Alexander and Phyrrus which is even more amusing.I'd like to see how you prove ancient Epirots and Macedonians as Albanians.

[notgodsemigod]

... well the sad for Albanians reality is that half their country - and pretty much all the coastline in ancient times was Greek - and the justification of "Greek colonists" is not enough when Chaonians extending at times up to to central Albania were Greeks as proven by all what we keep finding in Albania (up to today NO proof of any other language or culture in southern-central and all of coastal Albania) in ancient times, JUST GREEK.

Albanians came down at some point and mixed with Greeks.

[notgodsemigod]

Albanians in Italy were found since early one since Albanians served as mercenaries to Italians armies and fleets. These were NOT Arvanites.

The tribe of Arvanites were those that came down from North Epirus in the late 15th century and who were practically the remnants of the army of Greek (of Greek father, Serbian mother, greek conscioussness) Epirot depost Georgios Kastriotis.

[notgodsemigod]

@notgodsemigod These Arvanites are totally distinct to the earlier Albanians who came to Attica and Peloponesus as mercenaries of the Italians - there were about 4000 of them serving the Latin dukes of Ahaia and Attica, most apparently followed Italians when they left Greece in the face of Ottoman expansion. Albanian in Italy were as early as 14th century and perhaps prior to that. Nothing to do with the North Epirot Arvanites that came in late 15th century following the defeat of Kastriotis

[dardha]

@notgodsemigod Are you saying that these Arvanites were the soldiers of Gjergj Kastrioti? Good then, the case is shut and closed. You should have said that at the beggining and we wouldn't lost so much time.

Now, prove it, by all means prove it from non-Greek sorces that Gjergj mas Greek. if not, Arvanites it turns are pure Albanians.

[notgodsemigod]

@dardha Well you are quite lost: Kastriotis was a Greek leader that made use of a Greek-albanian army. Arvanites were the result of that meeting between Albanian Toskas (already a Greek-Albanian mix) and Greeks. Whether the % of Albanians was from a low 1/4th to a high 1/5th, the reality is that this group of 80,000 souls (men, women, children) descended to Greece having a full Greek conscounesss.

Today Albanians try using "Arvanite" to describe all unrelated Albanian populations. No case.

[dardha]

@notgodsemigod How can I take you seriously, really, when you have no shame to call Gjergj Kastrioti a Greek? In a way, I'm glad, since the rest of you Arvanit thesis also comes from a dubious and similar sources. With arguments like this (if wecan cal them as such) you are making my poit pretty clear.

[notgodsemigod]

@dardha You speak about shame? Funny. I am sorry mate. Georgios Kastriotis was a Greek despot (from Serbian mother). He had a "Roman" Byzantine consciousness which of course meant that back then in the 15th century he considered himself as of the same nation as Greeks - as Greeks were the only remaining faithfull population to the Empire.

The fact that he was Greek-Serbian in origins does not prohibit him of being your hero - but himself never had any albanian identity. He just used Albanians.

[notgodsemigod]

No Greek is ever interested in treating Kastriotis as a hero. He was an opportunist Greek-Serbian Byzantine ruler who swung from side to side, sometimes with the Ottomans, sometimes against them, trying to curve his little feud and possibly having even bigger dreams. Being based in the mountainous central Albania which was not his place of origins (he was from western Macedonia, eastern Epirus) meant that he employed mainly Albanian soldiers and as such he passed in Albanian folklore.

[notgodsemigod]

You understand that while religion played its role, it definitely did not make anyone feel Greek at all.

Remember where the Greek revolution started? In modern day Romania, mate. 1 million Greeks habitated back then Romania. They rebelled. Romanians - orthodox people themselves, did not rebel. Why? Because they were NOT Greeks. And they understood this was NOT their revolution.

[notgodsemigod]

You try to claim Arvanites as Albanians on a perceived Albanian ancestry would be meaningless even if Arvanites were 100% Albanians since Arvanites had a crystal clear Greek consciousness.

You should know that half Ottoman leaders had Greek blood. Should we start to claim Heyredin Barbarossa and Piri Reis as Greeks? Hell no! They were muslims of Turkish Ottoman consciousness as far as we are concerned. What if they had Greek parents?

[dardha]

@notgodsemigod Exactly then, what does make a Greek is exactly what I'm asking. Religion, that's what. Absolutely nothing else.

Albanians in Greece have fallen for this Greek complex and see their religion interconnected to their national identity.

As I said, those same Aevanites in Italy are Albanian. In Italy they were not faced with Greek national schizophrenia.

[notgodsemigod]

@dardha If it was religion that made Greeks, then why Bulgarian orthodox, Serbian orthodox and above all, Albanian orthodox did not become Greeks? Why they did not revolt along with Greeks?

Evidently because they were orthodox BUT NOT Greeks. Wake up mate, and face up the simple facts. When Greeks revolted, Greeks revolted from Cyprus to North Epirus. Orthodox Albanians just next to Greeks did absolultey nothing. Nor did orthodox Bulgarians do anything at all.

[dardha]

@notgodsemigod Where are you reading this history from? The Albanian uprising(I include here Arvanites) was an all Albanian event. The Albanians from north and south of Albania took part as well. How comme there are no minorities in Greece?

We all know that there were Turks, Serbs, Albanians, Macedonians etc. They were oppressed to declare themselves Greek.

[notgodsemigod]

@dardha What Albanian uprising are you talking about? Speak precisely, stop saying whatever bullshit comes in your mind to justify your lack of basis. Give events and dates. You count Arvanites in Greek revolution as "Albanian uprising"? Extremely funny: Arvanites were part of the Filiki Etairia secret society whose 1 and only scope was to liberate the GREEK nation. As far as we know, the Filiki Etairia society had no target of liberating Albanians, Bulgarians or Serbians... missed it eh?

[dardha]

@notgodsemigod No I havent but you have a tendency to see one side only. Ali Pasha is the person who initiated the struggle in order to create an independent country. In his service were Albanians from the north and south, including suliotes of Xhavella. In the north Mehmet Bushatliu had alcready declared a semi autonomous principate

[notgodsemigod]

@dardha Where on earth do you read all that crap you say? WHO OPPRESSED PEOPLE TO DECLARE GREEKS? There came Greek rebels that oppressed the people to declare Greeks? Are you mad? Who and how? Give names. Events. Stop saying whatever bullshit you read in your crap anti-Greek leaflets. Greeks have never pressured anyone to become Greek - in fact Greeks do not like other people to become Greeks as you Albanians already know first hand.

When you are a Greek you know it. None will tell you.

[dardha]

@notgodsemigod By asking for names or events you are trying to make sense of your own mess. I'm talking about Greek mentality and the way they dealt with their people inside their territory. I gave you examples of Albanians in Greece and Sicily and you choose to ignore them. What else do you want? I cannot picture it for you

[notgodsemigod]

@dardha sorry, but you never gave me ANY example of any Arvanite in Greece declaring being non-Greek. You only mentioned to Arvanites in South Italy and I answered you that 200 years back there was a clear division of Greek Arvanites from Albanians who came to Sicily and South Italy - despite both being orthodox, they even used different churches with Arvanites sticking to being along with other Greeks and being offended when Italians did not recognise them as Greeks.

[dardha]

@notgodsemigod What? ohhhh, mate, is there a point arguing with you? Albanians in Sicily, Arvanites, not for a second in their 500 years o solitude did say they were Greek. Never! Their national identity was so strong that they are the initiators of Albanian uprising in Albania, Now, here I'm using facts and you are not. Those same Arvanites are proud Albanians in Italy. That is, since no religious extremism was introduced to them yet.

[notgodsemigod]

@dardha On Albanians in Italy - and not only in Sicily - you have to pay attention and make the distinctions:

Albanians of Italy that came from Peloponesus were 2 kinds - 1) Albanians 2) Arvanites. You tend to bunch up all of them under the Arvanite term which is blatant:

Arvanite is a totally Greek term and if you knew Greek language you should know that the -itis itself means that these were NOT Albanians (for the same reason that Italiotes and Egyptiotes are not Italians,nor Egyptians...).

[dardha]

@notgodsemigod Now pay attention here, matey. Aravanites do not call themselves Arvanite but Arberor. Arvanites is how Greeks call them. Surprised a bit?

[notgodsemigod]

While, a person of Greek origins or a person of Albanian origins could have either a Greek or Albanian name, the amount of sirnames, Greek and Albanian gives us some picture of the origins of these people much more than the language they spoke.

In Peloponesus, the Arvanite village with the most of sirnames of Albanian Toska origins had.... 1/3 Albanian sirnames and 2/3 Greek ones.

Most interestingly Greek sirnames were of the kind of "son of..." while Albanian sirnames were... nicknames...

[notgodsemigod]

These Arvanites back in 1500 were about 80,000 souls, men, women, children. Even if they were half-Albanians, half-Greeks they merged in the Greek mainland in the Greek population that had to be some 5 million souls back then (prior to the slaughters of the 18th and 19th century...). 300 years later they had intermarried but then local (i.e. non-arvanite) Greeks were also adopting Arvanite when they fought as armatoloi in the Ottoman militia (whose official language was Toska Albanian).

[unfukkkmee]

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[unfukkkmee]

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[unfukkkmee]

THIS VIDEO IS PROPAGANDA AGAINST GREECE THE ARVANITES ARE GREEKS

[dardha]

@unfukkkmee Yes, yes of course they are. There is more chance that you are Albanian, my little Greek buddy.

[unfukkkmee]

@dardha U ARE asians slavo-albanians U ARE NOT arvanites THE REAL ARVANITES ARE GREEKS

[dardha]

@unfukkkmee Hahahahahahah, Arvanites means Albanian in our language. Arvaniti and Albanian is one language. Yes, of course, we are Japanese Eskimo Bangladeshi Punjabi Italians :o) but nonetheless arvanites are our brothers and have nothing to do with you. They gave you your independence, national dress and national music. Without Albanians you poor things are nothing. :o)

[unfukkkmee]

@dardha U ARE TERRORIST albo FROM CAUCASUS. THE real albania IS IN CAUCASUS. THE turk-albanians FOUGHT AGAINST HELLAS THE GREEK ARVANITES FOUGHT AGAINST turk-albanian SCUMS. THE arvanites ARE HELLENES

[dardha]

@unfukkkmee Of course they are Hellenes, I never said they are not. Albanians are real Hellenes, not modern Greeks. One Arvanite historian, Aristid Kola, says that the modern Greeks in order to prove that they are Hellenes need to prove first that they are Albanian. Think about that gypsy boy. It makes sense. :o)

Modern Greeks are a bunch of Asian migrants and Slavic invaders. Everything they have, I repeat, EVERYTHING they have is Albanian. From it's national heroes to it's culture :o)

[unfukkkmee]

THE HELLENES OF TODAY ARE REAL ANCIENT HELLENES ALL TEST DNA SAYS HOW WE HELLENES ARE PURE FUCK UR ALBANIA DIE DIRTY albo U ARE MOST WORST THAN turks

@dardha THE albanians ARE FROM CAUCASUS THE albanians HAVE slavic MIXED WITH MONGOLIC BLOOD

THE albanians HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH illyria

THE turk-albanians FOUGHT WITH FANATISM AGAINST HELLAS

aristidi kolia IS SON OF WHORE ULTRA PROPAGANDIST LIKE U

albanians ARE MOST FOOL PERSONS OF BALKANS THE FUSTANELLA IS HELLENIC

[dardha]

@unfukkkmee I see that these days even your education is awful. learn some English, gypsy boy, and then read some proper history. The one that says Suliotes and Arvanites are Greek is a bit stupid, no?  After some proper education do show up again and we might continue this fascinating conversation. :o) You are what we made you since we are the bloodline of modern Greece, from heroes to academics.

[unfukkkmee]

@dardha DIRTY ALBO GO BACK IN CAUCASUS SOBN OF WHORE THE HELLENE ARVANITES FOUFGHT AGAINST turk-albanians

[dardha]

@unfukkkmee And Turk Greeks fought against Albanian Greeks in Asia, idiot. That's no argument. As I said you should get some proper education, gypsy. When you talk about Albanians you should stand up and show respect. Without Albanians there wouldn't be any moder Greece or any modern Greeks. WE MADE YOU, WE ARE YOUR GOD. :o)

[unfukkkmee]

@dardha U ARE TERRORIST AND U DO FANATIC PROPAGANDA AGAINST HELLAS

LISTEN THE TRUTH NOW FUCKING turk-albanian BITCH LISTEN

SULIOTS ARE HELLENES

ARVANITES ARE HELLENES THE HELLENES OF TODAY ARE REAL HELLENES FROM ANCIENT HELLAS

ALL TEST DNA SAYS THE TRUTH ABOUT HELLAS

[dardha]

@unfukkkmee There isn't such a thing as reliable DNA test. If it was done and it included Albanians of Greece(arvanites, suliots, chams) then it's obvious that you got the result from Albanian being the oldest race in Europe. If the same test was done without Albanians, you would turn gypsies, which you certainly are.

[unfukkkmee]

@dardha SON OF WHORE I DONT KNOW WHAT IS cham. I KNOW HELLENE THESSPROTIANS U ARE TERRORIST U DO FANATIC PROPAGANDA AGAINST HELLAS THE 1803 THE HELLENE SULIOTS KILLED U DIRTY albanian

THE 1821 THE HELLENE ARVANITED KILLED U FUCKING albo SCUM GYPSIES ARE albanians IN albania. U ARE ILLEGAL IN albania WHY u DIRTY ALBO ARE FROM CAUCASUS

PS: IF U CATCH I SENT IN HOSPITAL FUCKING albano-BARBARIAN GO BACK IN CAUCASUS

[dardha]

@unfukkkmee Hahahahahahahha, you are a funny gypsy. If you weren't such an idiot I would have thought that you have a chance with comedy. :o)

Mighty Suliaots=Albanian, Arvanites=Albanian, Chams=Albanian, All heroes of independence=Albanian, Fustanella and Music=Albanian.

What the fuck is Greek? Please be kind to tell me gypsy?

[unfukkkmee]

albo canibal MANEATER. LISTEN. WHAT IS GREEK THE GREEK IS CREATOR FOR EVERYTHING OF HUMAMITY

@dardha REALLY IF U CATCH I KILL U FUCKING analbanians PRO BARBARIANS SPERMS OF MONGOLS

albanians= UNHUMANS CANIBALS STEALERS DRUG DEALERS WHORES ILLEGALALIENS FOREIGNERS UGLIEST IDIOTS 0% HISTORY ILLRIA POSSESSION NORTHERN EPIRUS POSSESSION THE GREEK SULIOT KILLED U turk-albanian BITCH THE GREEK ARVANITE KILL U turk-albanian SLUT

I PROMISE U albania NEVER IN EUROPE

REMEMBER ME

[unfukkkmee]

THE GREEK NATION STARTED FIRST IN WHITE NATIONS

@dardha GYPSY U ARE ASS - albanian WGORE OF BALKAN U ARE ULTRA MENTALIST AND WING PROPAGANDIST AGAINST HELLAS LISTEN. CANCER TO U AND UR woman BASTARD turk-albanian

[dardha]

@unfukkkmee Hahahahah, Oh my, my, what a gypsy comedian. Greek nation is not Hellenic nation. Albanians are Hellenic, Greek are just plain and simple; Gypsies.

Greeks started first in Gypsy nations more like it :o) hahahahahahahah

[notgodsemigod]

@unfukkkmee Albanians are really disturbed... you see them in the first sentence swearing Greeks, then telling Greeks they are Albanians, then telling them that they are gipsies... i.e. what the fuck? If anyone makes sense out of that...

... however we Greeks do make sense 100% out of it : Albanians ARE a highly complexed nation, bastardised out of being islamised. Theycame into history very lately, without culture or history of theirs, a true nation of looters.

[unfukkkmee]

-------

[unfukkkmee]

-------

[unfukkkmee]

THE SULIOTS ARE HELLENES THE ARVANITES ARE HELLENES

[unfukkkmee]

---------

[unfukkkmee]

--------

[unfukkkmee]

----

[dardha]

@notgodsemigod Well, no, it's Greek psyche that it's a bit disturbed. You have no idea who you are. Since your national identity is created upon the idea of religion and religious constitutions, there isn't a clear cut idea what makes a Greek. You call Greek Albanian Suliots and Albanians all over Greece because they are orthodox. You call a muslim Greek a Turk because he is not orthodox. You are not a nation but a religious community.

[dardha]

@notgodsemigod Albanians on the other hand, being the oldest European nation, have a clear idea who they are based upon their language. They can be Christian, Muslim, Buddhist, Atheist and still maintain Albanian. That is why you get so disturbed when a christian Albanian defends a Muslim Albanian against a Christian Greek. The lack of this logic makes you guys sch a racist society without any clear idea who in reality you are.

[unfukkkmee]

@unfukkkmee ------------

[notgodsemigod]

@dardha Now since you called Arvanites Albanians, go find 1 single text where one Arvanite calls himself Albanian. Just one. Even your Albanian pashas, like Ali Pasha called the Suliots Greeks and nothing elese and his grandson was cursing them for "instisting to remaining Greeks" and not changing to collaborate to the plans of Ali Pasha in a turkalbanian feud.

I was wondering if you consider Suliots as Albanians, can you find me who told them to "insist to remain Greeks"? Ali Pasha?

[dardha]

@notgodsemigod Your argument is flawed. Alberor( Arvanites) relate to Greece as the country they have created, with their fight for liberation, their music and national dress. They feel Greek. Who deserves the name more then them? That's not what I'm about to deny to them. But what is Greek is the argument. The fathers of megali idea reasoned that everyone who lives in Greece and has contributed in it's freedom is thus Greek. Arberor are Albanian by blood, language and tradition.

[dardha]

@notgodsemigod So, my reaction comes against the propaganda which denies the Albanian nature of Suliots and Arberors in general. What they feel today is not my business. I know muslim Albanians who have moved to Greece 4 years ago and decided to be Greek. That's their business too.

But changing historical facts doesn't make Arberor and Suliots Greek. What they choose to be today, my friend, is their right and their right alone.

[notgodsemigod]

@dardha What propaganda dardha? Bring me evidence that Suliots ever called themselves as anything else than Greeks. Explain to me why Albanian leaders like Ali Pasha and all his sons and grandchildren called Suliotes Greeks.

Stop saying whatever bullshit and face up reality.

[dardha]

@notgodsemigod The evidence is in abundance, if you chose to read other books apart from what your military junta feeds you. Byron, the one so in love with Greece, after meeting and after taking them as their guard says so in his letters to his mum.

Even if you choose to close your eyes, you cannot possibly deny that they spoke Albanian, had Albanian surnames, had Albanian customs (Besa and the rule of Kanun) and had a clear Albanian dress. That's where you got your fustanella from.Wake up son

[notgodsemigod]

@dardha What military junta are you talking about? Greek history books are plural and have all sorts of colours, yet there is no such book, Greek or international that has ever presented a SINGLE source naming 1 (just one!) Arvanite calling himself as anything else other than Greek.

Arvanites called themselves Greeks.

Other Greeks called Arvanites as just one of the many Greek tribes.

Turks called Arvanites Greeks.

AND ABOVE ALL

Albanians called Arvanites Greeks.

How about that?

[notgodsemigod]

@notgodsemigod Now should I start talking about your communist Emver Hotza totalitarian propaganda that utilised a false nationalist approach constructing an imaginary history of your nation according to which the Greek despot Georgios Kastriotis (Greek father, Serbian mother, "Roman-Byzantine" consciousness) became an Albanian against all historic reality... then you have idiots like your most famous writer, a communist relic, that claimed that Homer's language was Albanian...

[notgodsemigod]

you do not understand that you ridicule yourselfs...

[dardha]

@notgodsemigod Hahahahah, wow, there is no point talking to you mate. You need a doctor :o)

[notgodsemigod]

@dardha you need a doctor. You come here to claim yourself to be English because you speak english....

[dardha]

@notgodsemigod I never said we were English because we speak English. If you were arvanit(arberor) then we would speak Albanian like brothers we are, since you are not than I speak to you in English. It's common sense, no?

[dardha]

@notgodsemigod You still don't get it. What you call Albanians of Greece is not my business. Call them Gods for all I care. We are talking about what THEY ARE. They are Albanian. You still don't have a clear idea what makes a Greek. You must be some seriously deluded individual since no other then Greeks calls Arberors Greek. All world historians, including Fellmereayer calls Arvanites Albanian. The world itself means Albanian. They speak Albanian. Are you an idiot!

[notgodsemigod]

@dardha You claim them Albanian. Why? Because they spoke a dialect loosely based on Toska Albanian?

We speak here English. Do you claim we are English?

[dardha]

@notgodsemigod Are you saying that Greeks in Albania are not Greek but they are Albanians who think they are Greek?

If that's your argument then, by God, you are going to change the complexity of the world entirely. They spoke Albanian, that is a fact and that alone makes them Albanian. Without getting into their national conscience, custom or blood. Because if you use the argument you are using there isn't any Greeks in Greece, just some people who use the Greek language. :o)

[notgodsemigod]

@dardha You are extremely confused. North Epirus Greeks may speak Greek, and any other language including the Albanian, but they have a Greek consciousness. Arvanites had a Greek consciousness too. They spoke the Arvanite dialect, loosely based on Albanian southern Toska dialect, with 40% Greek & 20% Turkish vocabulary and an almost 100% Greek syntax (apparently because these were Greek populations speaking in a loosely based albanian dialect).

[dardha]

@notgodsemigod Well, no, you are missing the point. They have liberated Greece, they gave the heroes, they gave it their flare with national dress and energy. Of course the Greece is theirs, who else can claim it? You, who may be of Turk blood?

National consciousness came later, for Greeks and Albanians alike. By the time when the French Revolution happened and modern nations got created they were already living in Greece. They claimed the land they fought for.

[notgodsemigod]

@dardha I am missing what point ? What is your point? How did you call Arvanites Albanians when them were calling themselves Greeks?

You just told me you too that you recognise the fact that speaking English does not make us English.

Personally, I have NEVER ever found any text mentioning any Arvanite claiming to be anything else than Greeks. The fact that they fought for Greek liberation is only natural... for what did you expect Greeks to fight? For Albanian liberation?

[dardha]

@notgodsemigod Our English is not our mother tongue. Our mother tongue makes us what we are. And, is it that you lost your way in this elaborate scam that you are making silly arguments now?

Let's put it like this:

Albanians in Sicily come from the same region as Albanians of Greece, which is Morea (Peloponnese). Today, after 500 years those in Sicily say with pride they are Albanian. This are the same families and the same clans of Albanians.

[notgodsemigod]

@dardha Quite wrongly: you mix up Albanians of Sicily that came from Albania with Arvanites from Peloponesus who never claimed themselves Albanians. Italians (who hated Greeks at all times) called them Albanians to belittle them and them called themselves Greeks. Arvanites of South Italy stuck to Greek churches and mingled with other Greek populations. A number of them might have mingled with Albanian populations from Albania but these were not Arvanites but that is another case.

[dardha]

@notgodsemigod The difference is that those Albanians in Greece felt that they gave to much for this place(Greece) to not claim it as their own. The mere fact that so little non Albanians in Greece joined the fight for independence is that the generators of this new state were in fact Albanians.

Later, the acute and aggressive religious propaganda made them shy away from their roots and identify with the religious way of the new and independent Greece.

[notgodsemigod]

@dardha I see you have a real difficulty in recognising who is really an Arvanite and who was not.

Arvanites were around 80,000. In 1821 around 300,000 Greeks could speak Arvanite either as a 1st or a 2nd language. The reason of the success of that language was mainly the fact that Greeks worked as Ottoman militia where the Arvanite dialect was a communication form between Greeks and the Ottoman military - almost all of it Albanians.

[notgodsemigod]

@notgodsemigod Then you have to also realise that Arvanite was not any Albanian dialect spoken in Albania. It was loosely based on Albanian toska dialect but had 40% Greek vocabulary, 20% Turkish and nearly all of its suntax being Greek-like (Greek and Albanian syntax are substantially different). Syntax is a good sign of a dialect adopted by NON-native speakers - i.e. the mass of Arvanites were Greeks who in the course of time adopted a Toska based language.

[notgodsemigod]

You have to realise that to claim Arvanites as Albanians (against their own consciousness!!!), even if we ignore the fact that the majority of Arvanites had Greek descend and not Toska Albanian as you like to claim (though none denies that Toskas were an element in Arvanite tribe), if you go on calling Arvanites as Albanians, one will have to ask you on how "Albanians" are Toska Albanians, especially those orthodox ones in the south. They are orthodox, they look more like Greeks rather than gege

[dardha]

@notgodsemigod They don't look like Greeks at all. Greeks look like Turks, does that make you Turks?

These arguments are silly. Albanians are Albanians. Their regional differences do not make an argument. Albanians in Sicily are also orthodox but they feel Albanian.

Suliots were gegh, if it doesn't come as to much of a surprise.

[notgodsemigod]

@dardha On Sicilian Arvanites you are blatantly wrong. There were waves of Albanian immigration throughout Italy. You are referring to modern times saying that Albanians went to north Italy only (in the south they do not tolerate Albanians a lot) but back then ethnic Albanians were working in Italian ships and businesses and went north and south (back then the kingdom of Sicily). Even orthodox ethnic albanians had different churches from Arvanites who tended to stick with their fellow Greeks.

[dardha]

@notgodsemigod Do read a book will you? i'm talking about a 15 century immigration. Their most famous song is about Morea. I tend to have read some non-propagandist literature when in argument. You feel as if you are reading from a bible.

[notgodsemigod]

@dardha I am very much informed of the 15century immigration: 80,000 Arvanites enterring a body of about 5 million Greeks. Out of the 80,000 Arvanites, the Toska Albanian element were anything from 1/4th to 1/2nd but no more, as the analysis of sirnames of Arvanite villages reveals (village lists of some 40-50 years after that immigration).

... now if we count on the fact that Toska Albanians themselves are a Greek-Albanian mix... there you have it...

[notgodsemigod]

You have to clarify two things in your head:

1) Genetics

2) Conscioussness

And from there on you have to start searching numbers and statistics to have the full picture on who were and what became the Arvanites.

The linguistic parameter is extremely interesting but is certainly not a proof of ancestry unless Hayredin Barbarossa (of Greek father and mother) was a.... mongol with slashed eyes just because he spoke Turkish.

[dardha]

@notgodsemigod It's the way our nations are created and in what we believe that is a stumbling block here. For me Barbarossa was a Greek(maybe Albanian). Because for us, the religion and the profession of the person does not defy his nationality. In fact that is a case everywhere in the world. To you, being from a certain religion makes an identity. that's why you fight so hard for Albanian orthodox as well. It's so strange though.

[notgodsemigod]

@dardha See? You call Barbarossa a Greek. For me he was not. I tell you, you have to divide the separate notions:

1) Genetics (i.e. what origins were most of one person's ancestors)

2) Conscioussness

Eg. we all know that very few Turks are really of Turkish origins. Most of them are islamified local Minor Asian and European people including lots of our own people. But so what? Will that make them any less Turks? Does that make close to us? They have a totally different culture at basis.

[dardha]

@notgodsemigod No, they have exactly the same culture that you have, same music, same food, same mentality. The only difference that YOU RECOGNIZE is their different religion. I see that you don't even recognize the language differences.

That's a 15 century mentality and that is why the oppression of minorities in Greece still goes on.

[notgodsemigod]

@dardha I recognise the language differences:

Arvanite = a dialect of not more than 4000 words (i.e. a very basic dialect) which was loosely based on a toska dialect but of a Greek syntax and of a vocabulary of 40% Albanian toska, 40% Greek and 20% Turkish.

Such was the Arvanite dialect that according to social interaction Arvanites converged to Greek, or Turkish or Albanian - that is the flexibility of pidkin languages.

[notgodsemigod]

For me it is crystal clear that the Arvanites were Greek populations with 100% Greek consciousness. However it is also crystal clear that they partly derived from Albanian Toska populations (the % I let it to you - I already gave you what the research has given). Toskas who in turn derived from a Greek-Albanian mix too and it is for that reason that there is a steep anthropologic difference between northern gege and southern toska Albanians (not that I mention that as negative, it is natural).

[dardha]

@notgodsemigod They were not a Greek population with any Greek consciousness. They fought as they pleased, at certain times and they fought for their freedom in the end. Suliots fought for both Ali Pasha and for the rights of their clan. Do you see any national consciousness there?

The choice was made when the new country emerged and they were leading it.

[notgodsemigod]

@dardha Mate, what Suliotes did, pretty much every single mountainous region in Greece did. In Crete the Sfakians, and in Peloponesus the Maniots did the same thing: they fought for their clans, defending their local interests. What is so strange about that?

[dardha]

@dardha No, the Albanians from Sicily came from Morea and and what is today Greece. Those from the north went to Venice and north of Italy. There is no way you can twist this any more, the facts are clear to see. There is no difference between toske ang gege which is bigger than the difference between a Greek from the north and those from south.

All the same, the same Albanian stock today feels differently due to different social sircumstances

[notgodsemigod]

@dardha So how on earth you claim a 2/3 Greek, 1/3 Albanian lot that had a clearly Greek consciousness as Albanian? On what basis? On the basis of blood? Mate, wake up. The 1/3rd of the whole Albanian nation at least had Greek blood. 15% of Turks have Greek blood. 30% of Italians have Greek blood. Even a 10% of French (in the south) have Greek blood. So? Genetics is genetics. Conscioussness is conscioussness.

I ask you to bring me proof of Arvanites having any consciousness other than Greek.

[dardha]

@dardha those facing Greek religious fanaticism, with time, have identified themselves with Greeks. those in more liberal Sicily remained true to themselves, their glorious history and their blood.

Live with it, Greek.

[dardha]

@notgodsemigod But, the fact remains that they are Albanian, in origin and language. In the same manner that Greek and Albanian colonies in Sicily are Sicilian(Italian) today. But, in their language and tradition they reman Albanian or Greek. You cannot have one rule for the rest of the world and one rule for Greece. I still believe that Greeks have an identity crisis and have no idea who they are. The way you argue about arvanites is a good example.

[notgodsemigod]

@dardha The one with the identity crisis is Albanians who desperately try to configure a brand new history of their nation to satisfy their complexes of inferiority.

You are here trying to call Arvanites Albanians based on the connection of Arvanites to North Epirus. I do not care if Arvanites have Toska Albanian blood in them - what is for certain is that Tosk Albanians themselves have mainly Greek blood rather than Albanian anyway since most of them were Albanised Greeks.

[notgodsemigod]

@notgodsemigod The dichotomy of the Albanian nation is crystal clear. In the north you have the Gege Albanians, light brown and blond colours, totally different faces, and in the south you have Toska Albanians, that come so often with Mediterranean Greek-like looks. You know it very well and no need to deny the fact.

It traces down to the descend of the Albanians from the north Albania down to North Epirus which was NOT a land of Albanians as YOUR history also notes clearly.

[notgodsemigod]

@notgodsemigod Albanian Toskas came out of a mix of descending Albanians and Greeks. Out of them, a number - of no particular Albanian consciousness - fought along with Greeks under the commands of the Komnenian Epirot despots and as such they consolidated their consciousness as such - anyway they were already really mixed populations.

Now Arvanites, we know very well their numbers and their consistency since we have full lists of the villages and the names of people.

[unfukkkmee]

@unfukkkmee ------------

[notgodsemigod]

You can hear the Greek accent from 100 kilometers...

[dardha]

@notgodsemigod Hahahahahah, it's the Albanian accent in you that disturbs you. From heroes of Independence to fustanella, from half of your population to music, it's all Albanian LOL

[cikagjk]

pure albanian

[Desaret2006]

Nderime arvanitasve ne Salamina dh kudo.

[aspetosi]

--Une kam qene ketu ne Salamina --Keta flasin shqip shkelqyer --keta jane puro shqiptare ----------Atje eshte skandal--te duket vetja sikur je ne Shqiperi--Biles nje xhaje ketu me tha mua --- Na ndize nje cigare nga Paqeta ime -- E kam pakete shqiptare DS--

- Ai kshte pakete cigare DS - Durres Special -

- Me kujtohet qe me tha mua : --Qethi floket se i ke te gjata--------Vajta ti thosha : Mos me ruj shume trapin--, por pastaj nderova mendje , se po fliste shqip -

[labivlor]

They speak like my grandfather.Më një anë..:D

[ceniboy]

this is 90% IDENTICAL to my dialect of Sicilian Arberisht!!!!

[dardha]

@ceniboy It's the same people from the same region, mate. You crossed the sea, and that is the only difference :o) Don't fall for all the Greek rubbish. Arvanites is how Greeks call them. They call themselves Arberor(Arberesh). There is absolutely no difference between arberor0arberesh from Italy, Albania, Kosova or Greece.