imposing your will on people, and exercising your DOMINION over others...and all the while making it seem "noble." Yes, the lust for power exists among the left, too. They just express it differently.
Marcuse: “Who is qualified to make all these…distinctions [on what should be tolerated]…for the society as a whole, has now one logical answer, namely, everyone 'in the maturity of his faculties' …this would be a small number indeed, and not necessarily that of the elected representatives of the people. The problem is...breaking the tyranny of public opinion…”
Something tells me Marcuse saw himself as one of the "small number."
And remember, Marcuse is the CORNERSTONE of the left
Marcuse is bullshit. Censorship is censorship. There is no such thing as absolute tolerance. Marcuse is setting up a false choice between two false possibilities. Your judgment of statements that you believe are oppressive is based upon your own "10 commandments". P.C. is hypocritical. Your political correctness is the power in academia and represses/indoctrinates its ideological opponents. You assume that what you desire is good for the "repressed/oppressed/minority".
He saw someone express an opinion on fags, and got upset, and then realized that he could use the logical fallacy of the repressive tolerance, which is based on standard reverse psychology, subjectivism and pure conjecture, strictly anti-factual e.g repackaging intolerance and renaming it ''absolute tolerance'' and the calling for an intolerance of certain views and tolerance of others. He could have just called for genuine absolute tolerance, but that wouldn't suit the totalitarian goals.
Good description of repressive tolerance but you gave a bad example with Fox news. They are not oppressive. One voice amongst many in visual media is not oppressive.
I have just read Marcuse's "repressive tolerance." And it seems to me that he is not really complaining about racist slurs, he is trying to break the non-violence code and justify violence and all sorts of other anti-culture. And in the process shut down every other opinion.
I absolutely hate what he wrote. It's just packed with utter hatred for society and culture, a whole load of presumptions and prejudices, of "us vs. them," and of anti-culture.
Why should Marcuse be some sort of authority? Why not Alfred Rosenberg? They seem about equally evil to me.
Listen to yourself. All this blah-blah-blah about oppressed and oppressors and keeping ideology perpetuated. Does this correspond to what you see around you every day?
All I hear every day over the radio, etc. is endless repetition of leftist dogma. Good and bad. For example, I hear endless repetition of anti-racist propaganda. OK, I agree. Enough already.
Who is oppressed? No one in the U.S. is oppressed. But reading Marcuse blinds one to this simple fact.
If you think Fox News are evil, you don't know what evil is.I remember the time before Fox News, especially shortly before, when the last bits of non-leftist non-liberal opinion were expelled from all news.
You can watch PBS: it's full of very leftist (and very intolerant) propaganda. Bill Moyers on PBS in prime time calling Carl Rove "a yelping dog." "Democracy Now" - monstrous leftist garbage. Others, like CNN (media giant owned by Ted Turner) - not much better. Only one channel counteracts all this. And here you are, lambasting it.
As for tolerating racial slurs, etc. I am Jewish, and because of this have been a subjected of endless slurs. Far more than slurs.
Almost every day I get some Jew-hatings nastiness thrown at me. It's been going on since I was born. So to me what you say is basically a utopia. And utopias are OK only when people don't believe they can be put into practice.
If you knew how many people call me a racist and blame me of intolerance while throwing Jew-hating garbage at me.
No, we shouldn't tolerate everything. We shouldn't tolerate head-cutting or cannibalism, slavery, or mass murder, or murder in general, organized crime, crime in general, corruption, etc.
But Marcuse is turning it upside down. He is calling for tolerating of much of this as actions of protest or rebellion, while being intolerant to those trying to stop it; such as police.
You leftists dominate and bully everyone. Everyone is scared of you. People accepted anti-racism, but not your multicuturalism, not your white guilt, not your anti-capitalism and not your hatred. But you've forced it on everyone through pure bullying.
So who has power and priviledge? You do. Your professors sit there in universities like little kings and brainwash kids like you, while getting pretty penny for their efforts and all the respect as "voices for the oppressed" "noble revolutionaries," "people of conscience" or whatever other self-congratulatory epithets you assign to yourselves.
So sad to see how Marcuse and co. made your brain into mush and sold you on the total upside-down.
You're wrong of course. You are a standard "useful idiot" left-wing dupe who has swallowed the party line. You are basically a wind-up doll who is running around waving your arms in the air at a frantic pace while yelling at the top of your voice " ruling class oppressors racism!" You know what? Your argument is tired. And even worse- it is fucking boring. And even worse than that- you are wrong and you are an enemy of freedom. You are a totalitarian and don't even know it.
Not only does he explain the idea very well..he also TOTALLY MISSES the other side of the coin which is that what he describes as the 'oppressed' actually want the power themselves to oppress the current oppressors :) duh.
Intrinsic to his argument is that the current 'oppressed' are morally better than the oppressors. But they might be being 'oppressed' BECAUSE they hold ideas such as Surh 9:29 in the Quran "FIGHT those who do not believe in allah" and similar.
@BritNet001 EXCELLENT point. That is why racism and intolerance will NEVER be eliminated as long as humans are walking the earth. All you have to do is look at history to know that. The oppressed simply want the power to become the oppressors. That is the problem I have with leftists, who this gentleman obviously identifies with. I also suggest reading "The Fallacy of the Superior Virtue of the Oppressed" by Bertrand Russell.
@BritNet001 Also, by silencing those you believe to be the oppressors, aren't you thereby becoming an oppressor your self? Who decides which side is oppressed and which isn't?
@CradleofIdiocy The way I understand tolerance, we should be tolerant of things that people can't change, like their skin color, gender, sexual orientation. But then it gets complicated, because you can't be tolerant of all ideas. Like any idea that targets someone on the basis of their gender or race. And then it gets really complicated if I have to be tolerant of all the oppressive religions and ideologies in the world. Maybe a zero tolerance policy would work better.
@philnoll But then what happens if a practitioner of an oppressive religion turns around and claims they're the ones being oppressed, that *you're* the one being intolerant, and that there needs to be zero tolerance against *you*? Which, in actuality, is pretty close to the situation in Europe, where radical Islamists in some countries have been able to invoke the idea of Islamophobia to silence critics.
@iamcuriousblue Its a tough question. Living in a world that values individual freedom so much, we can't expect to integrate the Arab world without modifying our own values to accomodate them through this tough transition, but the theory is they'll begin to like the land of plenty, and they'll modify their extremist beliefs, or at least their kids will. Best thing to do is to show them respect, and then show them your side. Change may take long time, but its worth the wait.
@philnoll Misread your last comment and thought you were saying the exact opposite of what you were saying. Sorry about that last comment if you read it before I removed it.
Marcuse's call for intolerance toward so-called oppressive voices is nothing less than an attempt to suppress opinions he didn't like. For those trying to understand where this is leading - MochiMC is calling for an end to free speech (which he dislikes).
Marcuse was a Marxist theorist who tried to extend Gramsci's policy of cultural hegemony. His words were music to progressives' ears who wanted a way to shove their ideas down other's throats while suppressing opposing opinions.
Marcuse helped me identify limitations on tolerance. At one point I was confused because this doctrine of absolute tolerance had led me to having to be tolerant of racism, sexism, homophobia, etc. which I don't agree with. Marcuse validated my desire to speak out against systems of oppression and to call out things I disagreed with. You might not agree with his politics, but most anyone who denounces another opinion is embracing the idea that we shouldn't tolerate everything :)
@MochiMC "most anyone who denounces another opinion is embracing the idea that we shouldn't tolerate everything" If that's all Marcuse was saying, then her really wouldn't be saying anything different from classical liberalism, which calls for countering with bad ideas with more speech and better ideas. It seems to me that Marcuse is making a justification of political repression as a means for "liberation", and in that regard, he comes pretty close to Leninism.
Now believe me, I'm all for ringing denunciation of ideas that are themselves intolerant or bigoted, but I reject violence or the use of state censorship as a means to achieve this. And, BTW, I have made a similar argument against the claim that my speech was "intolerant" against none other than your friend Nuclearnight and her cronies, who in my opinion are simply intolerant bigots themselves and worthwhile targets for denunciation. I've blogged about this here: goo(dot)gl/3nOqo .
i'm french, sorry for my english, in democratie we have to accept everythink and the worst, the only solution his the persuasion. We have to prove that equalility gives the progress more than the liberalism
Translation: If you're a Leftist, you can say whatever you want and must be tolerated (even on disagreements within the Left). But if you're a Rightist, you have to shut up.
I don't think I mentioned right or left at all, but if I had, I would have mentioned that Marcuse points out that liberals and conservatives are opposite sides of the same coin. They both contribute to the perpetuation of institutions that are at the foundation of liberal and conservative politics.
CNN is definitely up there with FOX. MSNBC might have liberal voices, but you listen to some of these liberal voices and you'll notice that they still contribute to racism, xenophobia, sexism, and the perpetuation of capitalism.
Well people like Marcuse sometimes argue that the kind of consciousness produced by these kinds of news stations perpetuates capitalism but there's actually a Straussian argument to the converse that suggests that the perpetuation of this kind of consciousness by the mass media is good precisely BECAUSE it perpetuates capitalism. I found it to be a very convincing argument myself.
Thanks for all the comments. I am definitely upset about the sound as well. I'm just using a still digital camera which may be part of the problem. Unless I get a mic and figure out how to use it, the only solution is for me to get a little less "passionate" and speak more softly so the sound doesn't get distorted. I'll work on that :)
A fairly recent twist on an old human impulse:
imposing your will on people, and exercising your DOMINION over others...and all the while making it seem "noble." Yes, the lust for power exists among the left, too. They just express it differently.
TheCanine2 4 months ago
Marcuse: “Who is qualified to make all these…distinctions [on what should be tolerated]…for the society as a whole, has now one logical answer, namely, everyone 'in the maturity of his faculties' …this would be a small number indeed, and not necessarily that of the elected representatives of the people. The problem is...breaking the tyranny of public opinion…”
Something tells me Marcuse saw himself as one of the "small number."
And remember, Marcuse is the CORNERSTONE of the left
TheCanine2 4 months ago
Marcuse is bullshit. Censorship is censorship. There is no such thing as absolute tolerance. Marcuse is setting up a false choice between two false possibilities. Your judgment of statements that you believe are oppressive is based upon your own "10 commandments". P.C. is hypocritical. Your political correctness is the power in academia and represses/indoctrinates its ideological opponents. You assume that what you desire is good for the "repressed/oppressed/minority".
faelismaegnus 5 months ago
He saw someone express an opinion on fags, and got upset, and then realized that he could use the logical fallacy of the repressive tolerance, which is based on standard reverse psychology, subjectivism and pure conjecture, strictly anti-factual e.g repackaging intolerance and renaming it ''absolute tolerance'' and the calling for an intolerance of certain views and tolerance of others. He could have just called for genuine absolute tolerance, but that wouldn't suit the totalitarian goals.
Underground906 9 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
Look at this prick.
Underground906 9 months ago
Comment removed
Underground906 9 months ago
liberating tolerance is just another type of facsism
deviantcreep 1 year ago
Good description of repressive tolerance but you gave a bad example with Fox news. They are not oppressive. One voice amongst many in visual media is not oppressive.
quartercat08 1 year ago
That's a really great description of repressive tolerance - thanks!
Steggsie 1 year ago
I have just read Marcuse's "repressive tolerance." And it seems to me that he is not really complaining about racist slurs, he is trying to break the non-violence code and justify violence and all sorts of other anti-culture. And in the process shut down every other opinion.
I absolutely hate what he wrote. It's just packed with utter hatred for society and culture, a whole load of presumptions and prejudices, of "us vs. them," and of anti-culture.
(cont.)
Kurtlane 1 year ago
Why should Marcuse be some sort of authority? Why not Alfred Rosenberg? They seem about equally evil to me.
Listen to yourself. All this blah-blah-blah about oppressed and oppressors and keeping ideology perpetuated. Does this correspond to what you see around you every day?
All I hear every day over the radio, etc. is endless repetition of leftist dogma. Good and bad. For example, I hear endless repetition of anti-racist propaganda. OK, I agree. Enough already.
(cont.)
Kurtlane 1 year ago
Who is oppressed? No one in the U.S. is oppressed. But reading Marcuse blinds one to this simple fact.
If you think Fox News are evil, you don't know what evil is.I remember the time before Fox News, especially shortly before, when the last bits of non-leftist non-liberal opinion were expelled from all news.
(cont.)
Kurtlane 1 year ago
You can watch PBS: it's full of very leftist (and very intolerant) propaganda. Bill Moyers on PBS in prime time calling Carl Rove "a yelping dog." "Democracy Now" - monstrous leftist garbage. Others, like CNN (media giant owned by Ted Turner) - not much better. Only one channel counteracts all this. And here you are, lambasting it.
As for tolerating racial slurs, etc. I am Jewish, and because of this have been a subjected of endless slurs. Far more than slurs.
(cont.)
Kurtlane 1 year ago
Almost every day I get some Jew-hatings nastiness thrown at me. It's been going on since I was born. So to me what you say is basically a utopia. And utopias are OK only when people don't believe they can be put into practice.
If you knew how many people call me a racist and blame me of intolerance while throwing Jew-hating garbage at me.
(cont.)
Kurtlane 1 year ago
No, we shouldn't tolerate everything. We shouldn't tolerate head-cutting or cannibalism, slavery, or mass murder, or murder in general, organized crime, crime in general, corruption, etc.
But Marcuse is turning it upside down. He is calling for tolerating of much of this as actions of protest or rebellion, while being intolerant to those trying to stop it; such as police.
(cont.)
Kurtlane 1 year ago
You leftists dominate and bully everyone. Everyone is scared of you. People accepted anti-racism, but not your multicuturalism, not your white guilt, not your anti-capitalism and not your hatred. But you've forced it on everyone through pure bullying.
(cont.)
Kurtlane 1 year ago
So who has power and priviledge? You do. Your professors sit there in universities like little kings and brainwash kids like you, while getting pretty penny for their efforts and all the respect as "voices for the oppressed" "noble revolutionaries," "people of conscience" or whatever other self-congratulatory epithets you assign to yourselves.
So sad to see how Marcuse and co. made your brain into mush and sold you on the total upside-down.
Kurtlane 1 year ago
@Kurtlane There never was a time when non-leftist non-liberal(I bet you don't know the difference) was expelled from the media.
kidonlyle 8 months ago
You're wrong of course. You are a standard "useful idiot" left-wing dupe who has swallowed the party line. You are basically a wind-up doll who is running around waving your arms in the air at a frantic pace while yelling at the top of your voice " ruling class oppressors racism!" You know what? Your argument is tired. And even worse- it is fucking boring. And even worse than that- you are wrong and you are an enemy of freedom. You are a totalitarian and don't even know it.
quifflington 1 year ago
You've got a reverse Hitler stash.
philnoll 1 year ago
let me just run this example past you to see if i understand repressive tolerance .
a car is designed that can go faster than the speed limit then when the driver does go over the speed limit he is stopped by the police and fined.
society tolerated the car that gos too fast but then society is repressed by fines for tollerating it. am i close?
fivedinners 1 year ago
Not only does he explain the idea very well..he also TOTALLY MISSES the other side of the coin which is that what he describes as the 'oppressed' actually want the power themselves to oppress the current oppressors :) duh.
Intrinsic to his argument is that the current 'oppressed' are morally better than the oppressors. But they might be being 'oppressed' BECAUSE they hold ideas such as Surh 9:29 in the Quran "FIGHT those who do not believe in allah" and similar.
BritNet001 2 years ago
@BritNet001 EXCELLENT point. That is why racism and intolerance will NEVER be eliminated as long as humans are walking the earth. All you have to do is look at history to know that. The oppressed simply want the power to become the oppressors. That is the problem I have with leftists, who this gentleman obviously identifies with. I also suggest reading "The Fallacy of the Superior Virtue of the Oppressed" by Bertrand Russell.
CradleofIdiocy 1 year ago
@BritNet001 Also, by silencing those you believe to be the oppressors, aren't you thereby becoming an oppressor your self? Who decides which side is oppressed and which isn't?
CradleofIdiocy 1 year ago
@CradleofIdiocy The way I understand tolerance, we should be tolerant of things that people can't change, like their skin color, gender, sexual orientation. But then it gets complicated, because you can't be tolerant of all ideas. Like any idea that targets someone on the basis of their gender or race. And then it gets really complicated if I have to be tolerant of all the oppressive religions and ideologies in the world. Maybe a zero tolerance policy would work better.
philnoll 1 year ago
@philnoll But then what happens if a practitioner of an oppressive religion turns around and claims they're the ones being oppressed, that *you're* the one being intolerant, and that there needs to be zero tolerance against *you*? Which, in actuality, is pretty close to the situation in Europe, where radical Islamists in some countries have been able to invoke the idea of Islamophobia to silence critics.
iamcuriousblue 6 months ago
@iamcuriousblue Its a tough question. Living in a world that values individual freedom so much, we can't expect to integrate the Arab world without modifying our own values to accomodate them through this tough transition, but the theory is they'll begin to like the land of plenty, and they'll modify their extremist beliefs, or at least their kids will. Best thing to do is to show them respect, and then show them your side. Change may take long time, but its worth the wait.
philnoll 6 months ago
Comment removed
iamcuriousblue 6 months ago
@philnoll Misread your last comment and thought you were saying the exact opposite of what you were saying. Sorry about that last comment if you read it before I removed it.
iamcuriousblue 6 months ago
@iamcuriousblue No worries
philnoll 6 months ago
Regardless of whether you agree with the theory of repressive tolerence, this video explains a complicated concept very well. Thank you.
redzer83 2 years ago
So once we find the correct ideology how can Marcuse's ideas be useful in imposing it on everyone else?
JohananRaatz 2 years ago
Marcuse's call for intolerance toward so-called oppressive voices is nothing less than an attempt to suppress opinions he didn't like. For those trying to understand where this is leading - MochiMC is calling for an end to free speech (which he dislikes).
Marcuse was a Marxist theorist who tried to extend Gramsci's policy of cultural hegemony. His words were music to progressives' ears who wanted a way to shove their ideas down other's throats while suppressing opposing opinions.
behaack 2 years ago 5
Marcuse helped me identify limitations on tolerance. At one point I was confused because this doctrine of absolute tolerance had led me to having to be tolerant of racism, sexism, homophobia, etc. which I don't agree with. Marcuse validated my desire to speak out against systems of oppression and to call out things I disagreed with. You might not agree with his politics, but most anyone who denounces another opinion is embracing the idea that we shouldn't tolerate everything :)
MochiMC 2 years ago
Comment removed
iamcuriousblue 6 months ago
Comment removed
iamcuriousblue 6 months ago
@MochiMC "most anyone who denounces another opinion is embracing the idea that we shouldn't tolerate everything" If that's all Marcuse was saying, then her really wouldn't be saying anything different from classical liberalism, which calls for countering with bad ideas with more speech and better ideas. It seems to me that Marcuse is making a justification of political repression as a means for "liberation", and in that regard, he comes pretty close to Leninism.
(cont)
iamcuriousblue 6 months ago
Now believe me, I'm all for ringing denunciation of ideas that are themselves intolerant or bigoted, but I reject violence or the use of state censorship as a means to achieve this. And, BTW, I have made a similar argument against the claim that my speech was "intolerant" against none other than your friend Nuclearnight and her cronies, who in my opinion are simply intolerant bigots themselves and worthwhile targets for denunciation. I've blogged about this here: goo(dot)gl/3nOqo .
iamcuriousblue 6 months ago
i'm french, sorry for my english, in democratie we have to accept everythink and the worst, the only solution his the persuasion. We have to prove that equalility gives the progress more than the liberalism
samiraboudiba 3 years ago
Translation: If you're a Leftist, you can say whatever you want and must be tolerated (even on disagreements within the Left). But if you're a Rightist, you have to shut up.
TommygunNG 3 years ago 5
I don't think I mentioned right or left at all, but if I had, I would have mentioned that Marcuse points out that liberals and conservatives are opposite sides of the same coin. They both contribute to the perpetuation of institutions that are at the foundation of liberal and conservative politics.
MochiMC 3 years ago
Interesting point FOX is the oppressive force but ABC,CBS,NBC,MSNBC,CNN,NPR,BBC,CBC,NYT, PACIFICA are the oppressed media.
GIVE ME A BREAK!
RobGoth100 3 years ago 3
CNN is definitely up there with FOX. MSNBC might have liberal voices, but you listen to some of these liberal voices and you'll notice that they still contribute to racism, xenophobia, sexism, and the perpetuation of capitalism.
MochiMC 3 years ago
Well people like Marcuse sometimes argue that the kind of consciousness produced by these kinds of news stations perpetuates capitalism but there's actually a Straussian argument to the converse that suggests that the perpetuation of this kind of consciousness by the mass media is good precisely BECAUSE it perpetuates capitalism. I found it to be a very convincing argument myself.
JohananRaatz 2 years ago
This left wing blather is amazing to listen to. Marxists want to silence anyone who gets in their way. PERIOD
RobGoth100 3 years ago
Really fantastic video, except again, the sound is not very clear. It would help to improve the sound.
merhaba234 3 years ago 2
Thanks for all the comments. I am definitely upset about the sound as well. I'm just using a still digital camera which may be part of the problem. Unless I get a mic and figure out how to use it, the only solution is for me to get a little less "passionate" and speak more softly so the sound doesn't get distorted. I'll work on that :)
MochiMC 3 years ago
You are quickly becoming one of my favorites.
nuclearnight 3 years ago 2
Appreciate it! I follow your videos closely and I can't lie - I've definitely been influenced by your views.
MochiMC 3 years ago