Answering a question with bullshit isn't really an answer. The priest is wrong on free will.
The words "free will" can be found in a with a search tool if they were present in the bible. Also an all knowing god and free will contradict each other.
does that make the priests/ minister more important to you? You having to confess it to him? Y cant u just confess it to God? Isn’t he the most understanding of them all? Y seeks guidance from an average human and not from the almighty? And how come you can’t just confess it to your mother/father or most trusted friend? Y not does that? Are priests that more important or more understanding then some1 you've known all your life? And I apologize for the amount of space I took up
3. what happens if u have been raised a christan all your life. Then, lets say a war happens it wipes out most of the people from your neigbor hood and you want 2 b cleansed of ur sins but there r no preachers/ministers around they've all perished in the war and you cannot cleanse yoyr sins. Dont you have to confess to a priest or a minister? and my last question is if you really love God and Jesus etc. You love them with all your heart and you go to church EVERY SINGLE DAY where u confess
these horrible habits because everything that a family does rubs off on the child and so this sweet innocent child learns to become a robber, cheater etc. Because of the family, this person never was introduced 2 God nor had he heard of the name Jesus would he go 2 hell and burn in a lake of fire?Just because he didnt have the information of God? There for not believing in Jesus?
What happens when a person commits no sin, and has done wonderful things in the world as so many people have done? However they do not believe in Jesus nor God, would they go to hell and burn for all eternity? Even though they committed no sin and just didn’t believe in God?
2. What happens if a baby is born, however he is born into a very bad family, a family that lies, steals and cheats etc. Do all the things the bible says not to, ad it learns
Howdy. I like what your doing. However you can have free will inspire of an all knowing God. If I have the ability to see what's going to happen in the future, it would not impede anyone's free will. Now if I determined what's going to happen as in the double predestination doctrine, then the argument can be made.
He said, "I understand god.............?..................?" *cough cough* what...? So he understands god... I bet he could create a universe if he wanted to. What an unbelievably ignorant thing to say.. If he's supposed to be a priest.. He's not teaching religion at all, just preaching his own pride and arrogance.
First of all she is fucking annoying and I am catholic and personally believe atheist don't go to hell if they live a good life if they help with charity and are kind they won't but if they are a bad human being then yes and there is purgatory for people to pray for there sins to be forgiven
i actually brought the free will argument in church one day when i was still a christian. no one wanted to answer my question and i kind of got swept to the side. i am a proud atheist now, glad to have my life free of fairy tales
It's not that God forces you to love him. It's simply choice and consequence. If you accept God, you go to Heaven. If not, you go to Hell. It's just like any modern day choice. If you sell someone something, you get money to make a living. If you don't, you can't.
@MegaTouchy most modern day choices dont provide an infinite punishment for a finite crime. that makes absolutely no sense. and by gods rules, even good people who dont believe will burn for eternity. they might as well all have been baby rapers. why do christians NOT think critically about their own beliefs to make sure what they believe in is real or not?
This did get me to think. I understand that the point is if free-will was included in the Bible (God-given) then people would not choose to follow out of fear of punishment. However, my opinion is (assuming that God exists) that if God wanted people to freely choose him, why would he cater to every single inconvenience they experience on earth? Then people would not rely on God through faith. Instead, they would take advantage and have no respect. He would not be viewed a holy, fatherly figure.
"To my creator , I dont know who or what you are, You may be just the dust in which i walk upon, Or something more, I dont know....yet, Lifes complicated and that is the way YOU made it, Im not blaming, Im just saying, Lifes very complicated, But listen IF you love me, YOU/IT have/has committed to your/its creation. You/it have/has let us exist. You/it must therefore be flexible and understanding if we have no immediate faith"
God briings a person into being because God loves him, at the same time gives him free will, but if he chooses to become a atheis, after death he will be burned in hell; although god loves him. Does it make sence?
If Christians really read the bible, the old testament too and stopped when they got to parts about God's instructions to attacking a town or when you Rape a virgin take her as your wife, or why god turned the wife of the only good man in two cities to Salt for having compassion on the people who were being killed. Hey if God could send Lot 2 angels why not have them hover above the cities glowing and singing to God maybe everyone could have been saved and God would not have had to kill anyone.
I don't get why you upload these, you're basically proving atheism right. If the only answer to those questions is 'god loves you' then you failed to prove her wrong. Are you sure you aren't an atheist ;)
(...cont.) Therefore, if God cannot change his own fate, then he is not omnipotent, for he lacks the power to control his future actions. If a God exists, he can be only be all-knowing or all-powerful, he cannot be both. These are the logical inconsistencies that arise when claims aren't based on evidence, but mere speculation. I have yet to use this in a debate and I wonder how an apologist would respond.
You made a lot of great points, very well done! There is another logical inconsistency that has to do with the very nature of God, which I find interesting. The monotheistic religions claim God is both omniscient AND omnipotent. However, if God is omniscient then he would know all of his future actions. This means He would be tied to his own fate, unable to change his destiny, because everything he does would be predestined. (cont...)
I'm sorry Rev. Jim but "Prove you've read every word of the Bible" was not a refutation of her assertion that that the Bible does not teach the existence of "Free Will." The only way to refute that assertion would be to quote book, chapter, and verse a biblical passage asserting the doctrine of religious free will. Why didn't she call him on that? They both failed. And, I agree with others that this whole video was a big fake. And yet, the rev. could answer even the fake conundrums.
If the Lady just really read the entire bible she will not say that "freewill" is not in the Bible....."Whatsoever thy hand findeth to do, do it with thy might; for there is no work, nor device, nor knowledge, nor wisdom, in the grave, whither thou goest." Ecclesiastes 9:10
as an atheist, I appreciate your evidence, but you didnt have to be a total stuck up bitch about it. Next time you decided to "represent" atheists lets try not to make our, already negative image, worse. Kthanks
An illustration. There you go. Illustration, metaphor, story, made up crap.
No wonder Jamie dumped your sorry ass. Shes hot and seems to not fall for horror story fairy tales. If i had a girl like that, id never let her go by being stupid.
Does the bible mention freewill? It doesn't need to- why? Simple- because God made man in his OWN image (from the bible). There's your answer. I believe in God. Religion, to me, is for the "needy" people that feel guilty due to their own stupidity and poor choices, and do so using THEIR freewill. Religion has nothing to do with God. Does God know all, yes! The verse you speak of "knowing u all your days" refers to your soul- nothing more. Threat is a control method of the church- not God.
lol u guys dont realize this is acting? puzzled look fail at the end of the video. Anway interesting thought but the tree diagram was flawed because she placed herself as an athiest for the end of it. she doesnt know the final result, only god does. im only going on what she said. now if you assume u kno ur going to remain an atheist in ur lil tree diagram miss bad actor, ur deciding ur own path right there and therefore giving urself religious freedom right there.. dumb ass script, bad acting
i just read a couple of scriptures that says "free will".....lol....can someone who supports the lady explain her side of the story of this free will part?....thanks
it speaks about free will offerings, but yeah it doesn't say "directly" that god has given you free will....but if jesus "asked" (as opposed to "told") ppl to come to him and they chose to do so, it was on their own free will, he didn't make them do it....not everyone came to him.....i'm not christian so i dont care either way, but it was interesting. : ).....i'm agnostic, i believe in a higher power but i don't like organizaed religion. : )
@mazaratialbum A higher power? Do you call it God? Then how are you agnostic? I dunno, I thought agnostics are the fence sitters. Theists believe in personal god(s) who interfere(s) with human life. Deists believe in god(s) who for whatever reason do(es) not interfere with human life. Atheists do not believe that there is any god.
it doesn't say it exactly, it speaks about free will offerings but that is it....but god's son asked ppl to come to him and he didn't force them to so i guess that can be considered free will....i'm not religious at all, i'm agnostic, but i always laugh at ppl when they speak about the bible because they always want to get the words "exact"....they don't do that in any other book but that book, lol.
@mazaratialbum " i just read a couple of scriptures that says "free will".....lol....can someone who supports the lady explain her side of the story of this free will part?....thanks"
Can you show me where? I fucking hate it when people say stuff like I Just read it word for word free will and then don't say where they found it. Let me know because I seriously want to know where in the scripture it says "free will" word for word like you stated.
Lol clearly actors reading off scripts on the laptops, not a "debate" - but the script is still quite good and I agree with everything she said. How could you not?
The young woman has done a great job of pointing out logical inconsistencies in the Bible and that God does not control our lives. It's a very good thing, in my opinion, that God is not limited by the descriptions in the Bible or other scriptures.
This is obviously fake, i have only been studying the bible for a little over 2 years and I can easily answer all those questions with honest, biblical answers that actually have substance unlike this man pretending to be a reverend, reminding us of Gods love instead of giving honest insightfull answers.
First of all, these arguments are not in favor of atheists but in favor of non-christians. They do not cancel out those real and/or hypothetical gods that can exist.
1. There are strong hints in the Bible that we do not have a free will at all, but nothing tells us directly that we don't. One of hints is in the video: god knew one man before he was born. However, it does not prove that god did not set the whole thig up.
Intentionally creating one man without free will and limit free will of people around them to spread the faith.
However there is a second argument. When Jeusus gave a prophesy that Peter will deny him, why didn't he stopped him and Peter couldn't do anything about it. Instead Jesus run into details about that cock will crow twice before this happens.
This strongly hints that mere existence of free will is not the case.
2. No you don't. However, if you a materialist then you can ask "If future already exist, do we have a choise?' Well, No. However we do have an illusion of free will and since we do not know the future then we are qute happy with it.
3. Yes. People did it for centuries. "I TOOK her as a wife", we still have leftovers of this atitude. And spanking children is still around. Emancipation is quite a recent phenomenon and where comes the notion of love from if not
@ReligousTruth Answer # 1. Are the words free will in the scriptures, no. However it is clear that we have the ability to choose. Which is the thought behind the term (free will) or even (choice). After God made Adam he allowed him to choose the names of the Animals, after God made Eve / Adam chose her name. God even commanded choice "Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat" But then comes consequencs " But of the tree of the knowledge of Good and evil thou shalt not eat of it"
@ReligousTruthAnswer 1 cont. "For in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die" This consequence was made known to Adam because of Gods concern for him, but God allowed him to choose or gave him free will. Just as he gave the great deceiver which comes soon after!
@ReligousTruth Answer # 2 I will give an verbal illustration: I have an uncle named Bob, Bob always eats all the Mac & Cheese at my grandmothers thanksgiving dinner. Every year for the past 20 years, but this year, I bet my brother 100 hundred dollars Bob would eat all the Mac & Cheese. Thanksgiving came, and I got 100 bucks cause just as I knew he would Bob ate all of it.
Just because I knew Bob would eat all the Mac & Cheese doesn't mean I interfered with his ability to choose.
@ReligousTruth Answer 2 cont. Just as I know Bobs nature, and tendancies, God knows our very heart. Every thought is known by him, he knows our nature, and what we will choose. The fact that God told us of the consequence, and has made the way to himself known, but does not force service only encourages the basis for belief in our own ability to choose.
@ReligousTruth Answer # 3 The honest answer to this question is YES, you could. But this question is not an accurate representation of Biblical TRUTH. Eternal damnation is not a threat, it's a warning. In God alone resides all that is good, happiness, joy, satisfaction, LOVE. Eternal Damnation is merely eternal separation from all that is Good. If you are separated from all that is good there is nothing left but, all that is bad. Hate, torment, pain, a lake of fire which is unquenchable.
@ReligousTruth Answer 3 cont. God gave us existance, yes, knowing that some would refuse him. But that doesn't take away an individuals ability to accept Gods grace, repent and live. If you have lived, then you have made a bad choice or decision, this decision has eternal consequences. And is the most important one we will ever make! Having spent the last several years of my life studying the scriptures, knowing the TRUTH. I look forward to serving God forever, seek and you will find..CHRIST
Those are silly questions. Forget all the wanna be logical philosophical talk. Logic does not lead you to believe in god(s), demons, angels and demons.
The fact that we have to have a discussion about if a god(s) exist is a clear sign that I should doubt it. It's not like people wake up in the morning and have a discussion about if the sun really exist. You act as if it's obvious and it's not obvious that a god(s) exist.
2. Just because God knows your fate doesn't mean he wills it. ex. i know the sun will rise in the east and set in the west Tomarrow, also someone will be born and someone will die. But none of these will happen because I willed it. I just know.
3. God isn't threatening us with damnation if we don't love him. He's telling us of the reality for those who reject him. So we can make an informed DECISION.
1. Actually the whole Bible advocates the idea that ppl can by free will choose to do good and evil, choose to accept or deny God, choose to pay the price and follow Jesus. Though I don't see these 2 words "free will" being put together in the Bible.
2. Well, God knows your fate, that means you have a choice, why? Because God knows your fate doesn't mean that God determines your fate.
3. No, since that's not true love. This is called Coercion.
3. No - but you can show them how much you love them, by dieing for their sins and giving them the opportunity to repent and be saved from internal damnation.
@jclser God wants sheep to follow him around, cant have freethinkers upsetting the flock can he?! But then the god of the bible is an immoral ass, an ignorant fool, and an obvious oxymoron.
@ Jamie- you should have also added the obvious rebuttal at the end and asked why god hated all the other sperm. If God allowed an atheist sperm to be born because he loved you (the atheist) then he couldn't have loved the others whom he didn't allow to be born.
Ok i had to shut it off at 3 minutes. GOD does not give you birth, your momma does. GOD does not know if you will do something or not! This is a set up and will be looked at as a comedy bit! Just so everyone knows (Not everyone goes to heaven). It is pretty simple folks! Example: If you feel that hurting someone intentionally is ok, well then you will go to a certain place! If you feel it is wrong then you will go to another place. You choose so there is no sorrow.
Easy questions for the equipped mind...Either you are in Gods will or your not. It's real simple, God see's our lives as they were purposed to be not what '"We" will them to be. You can live according to his promises or seek aimlessly toward your own. His word leads us into a hand in hand relationship with God...when we choose different his plan for us is lost!
@timj316 So let me get this straight. If I tell my kid, "You have the choice of doing as I say and you will be rewarded or not doing as I say and I will punish you forever", I would be a good father like God? And I should stop loving my kid because he/she doesn't do everything I tell him/her to do? Think about it. God will let me burn in eternal hell if I don't follow his rules, and that is his loving me? Wow.
@Otherien // if god doesn't have the ability or if he doesn't care if his creations understand him, he doesn't sound like a coherent god. and why would anyone follow , even devote their lives to something they do not understand?
@Otherien "god is complex because he is god" you havent answered why god is complex you simply make an excuse because you dont have an answer, what if i were to change some of the words in that statement with, a tree has leaves because its a tree, it doesnt answer the question and simply lowers ones credibility of being an intelligent human being
this is a shameless attempt by two christians,one posing as an atheist,not to bring up any rational debate,but to show that all christians are well manered and all atheist are rude-shameless and embarrasing
Father Jim - is this video real? As in non-satirical? Cos if it is a comedy you have unbelievable acting skills and I would hate to play poker with you cos you'd clean me out!!!
I think the better question to have asked in this "debate" is why free will is a gift. Why is that a sign of love? When a mother goes out with her child, she holds the child's hand and doesn't let him walk on his own - this is to prevent the child from unwittingly hurting or even killing himself, say from walking into traffic. That mother has taken away her child's free will, but she's done so out of love. So, if free will really is a sign of love, should she let the child do anything he wants?
Are you confusing "free will" with "religious free will"?
I have free will, because I choose to keep my child safe from traffic. I have deprived my child of free will in the process. Totally agreed! But, I have free will because I am an individual making decisions, not because some god gave me a gift. Religious free will does NOT exist. Free will does exist. Her logic is irrefutable. All three points hit the target. I love the "Gun to head" analogy! It IS NOT in scripture! etc...
Terrible. I am an affirmed atheist and agree with all of the points that the lady makes. However, this is transparently a fake "debate," and such fraud only serves to undermine our cause. Even I could put up a better counter argument than that fake "Revered Jim," and there are plenty of great, legitimate debates taking place out there. Please don't undermine our credibility. We don't need to resort to this! If you're going to have a fake debate, at least make it humorous and more obvious.
Fake or not, this solidifies thoughts I've had. I don't see how this could possibly "undermine our cause" if the truth in logic exists. If this makes you feel like you have been violated in some way, perhaps you should take a Valium. I for one hope they make more of these dealing with miracles, prayer, etc. The only arguments I've heard trying to refute this logic were lame at best. At least this preacher is honest, there is no refuting her points! Read the comments for yourself!!
She refuted you, and after she showed you three points that you answered to with changing to the other proof, until you got to the third point and couldn't answer, so you said ''god loves you'' and ended the video. So, if god loves you, why does he send you to burn in hell? You sir, are a terrible debater.
Atheism is crazy. So is Christianity. collisions chapter 2 Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ. All these lies Christianity, Islam, Atheism, Catholicism,
While I agree whith everying she has to say I would like to point out that this video looks like it was staged. The acting really isn't very good. I'm okay if it was staged, I just don't think it is right to try and pass it off as an actual interview.
Let me know your feelings on this and if you would go against gods plan. If god gives us free will would you stop me from acting on that gift, in opposition of gods will. If I'm raping a child in a room and you walked by seeing the act, I would hope
I'm rapping a young woman, you walk by and see the act. There's a gun on the nightstand. Do yo shoot me?
@ssportster00 Too black and white for a yes or no answer! How could I know it was rape as compared to rough sex? How could I be sure I wouldn't hit the woman by mistake? When I size you up, could I subdued you instead of kill you? Do you have a weapon? Do I call 911 first? Do you often have these fantasies of raping women? Do you fantasize about having sex with children often? Are you currently taking medication for mental disease or disorder? Are you off your meds??? This is a joke, right?!?
@ssportster00 <--- Basically explains you right their. But hey let me answer your question...I would take the gun and beat you with it, no need to kill you. Your entire question is a fallacy because you don't understand God or the Bible. Yes we have free will, but we also have rules to follow (i.e the 10 Commandants). People have a skewed definition of freedom now a days, freedom is NOT Anarchy.
Religion is not, nor never will be, a joke!! Religion is serious. Where will you spend eternity? That, is a serious question that only you can answer!!! Will you kill someone in God's name today, or will you help a person in need? You do have free will to choose. Will you choose the God of love, or the God of war? Proving the bible is inerrant really doesn't matter!! How you treat others of all walks of life is how you will be judged. Look in the mirror, and judge yourself today!
i have a question to... further extend this interview you had, i believe the women was going to say something but you ended the interview... if god loves you even if you don't love him, why does he allow you to burn in a lake of fire for all eternity, youtube is a little bad at having a debate, i request, and i respect you even if your refuse, to have a debate over an instant messenger board, i will try to not be offensive in any way, thank you for reading my comment
God knows your every move and every decision. We all have a purpose, and God knows where you will end up on the path he has set for you. You have the choice to follow the path...or stray. He's giving you a chance because he loves you. There is no contradiction. Period.
@Scanini This is logically compatible. I find it better to dispense with the God part though and simply go with the two possibilities of the universe being either deterministic or not. For God to know all the universe has to be deterministic, at the moment it does seem that the universe is not ( due to QM )
putting that aside:
Free will must be defined well first. If I ask you 'A' or 'B' and you pick 'B' I ask why? you then give reasons for choosing B. If we were to magically go back in
"Unfortunately her arguments and examples were weak" In what way!? Pls elaborate! Why did god allow me to be born if he knew I would suffer in hell!? Because he loved me!? It's ludicrous from the start! I wasn't even there. :) What did he love exactly? The idea of me ending up in hell!!?
This is what they call a shell game. Clearly that is not a real priest or minister, they are not so easily misled. This video is just more fodder for the atheist. Anything can be refuted if the script is written that way.
God knows where you will be at any given moment, not because you have a preordained mission, but because he knows that the way you chose to will lead you down a certain path. God will not take you there, he knows you will end up there based on choices, and you know it too.
What i dont understand is how does God knowing the future force it? U have 2 be seriously narrow minded to think this way. Maybe God knows she will turn Muslim by the end of her life. Does that mean he FORCED it 2 happen? Or, does it just simply mean he knew what was going to happen? Also, he gave u free will. U chose 2 go against God. Not his fault. Plus, u set a good example of what NOT to be like for those who come after you.............
They are just grasping at straws playing games with semantics.
If I went back to the year 1836, know what the men at the Alamo would do but not even go near the Alamo. They would do exactly what I knew they would do. By my knowing it had nothing to do with them knowing it. I guess noone had free will in this situation right?
Or how about offering someone a sandwich or dead mice. Knowing they are going to pick the sandwich doesnt take away the freedom of that choice.
Here's the rub Jesus, You are not God and you are not Omniscient! If you go back in time you COULD NOT KNOW what would happen, because you would only know what happened the first time it happened. You could have changed the outcome simply by going back! Supposedly, only GOD is omniscient! He KNOWS, where you would only be guessing. Look at her prop! She CAN'T turn left at the first fork, if God KNOWS she will turn right toward atheism. Jamie's logic is irrefutable & LOGICAL! She is brilliant!!!
LOL way to show ur ignorance. How do u know God isnt sure she's gonna turn Christian at age 43? Then she'd be theist. U kno she's gonna be athesit when she dies based on what SHE said. Maybe God knows she will turn Buddist by the end of her life. Then God KNOWS she would turn (idk wat direction, theres not 1 on her prop her Buddism :P ) but that doesnt mean she would force it. U seriously cant see this?? Its impossible to explain to some1 who has closed their mind off.
I am fully capable of speaking proper english thank you. By using what is refered to as "texting lingo" I am able to type much faster, since I am after all in debates with more people than just you and I, well have other things to do. That is known as having a life. Now, do us all a favor and stay out of this before you end up embarassing yourself just like every other person I have ever debated. Also, you should try using proper grammer as well. Dumbass............
Now, do you have anything intelligent to say (lol)? Or do you plan to try to slander me and not make this an intellegent conversation. I daresay i have had that happen too many times. With just about everyone I argue with after they realize how badly they are losing, in fact- save for a few intellegent people who actually know what they are talking about
Your proof of the outcome changing by me merely going back in time even on a remote island across the world?
Just because only God is omniscient the dead mice analogy isnt negated. You are the one who has to prove God's foreknowledge has an action on a person's free will LOGICALLY.
When you say a person makes a CHOICE, by definition you are freely choosing to do something. Therefore, to later say that you have no choice in what you are doing is a contradiction of your statement.
Also, if she made the FREE WILL choice of being a theist on that fork, the tree would have showed her being a theist. It is simply an advance recording of what you will do based on the choices you will freely make. To assume otherwise the burden of proof is on you to logically explain this "action" God supposably performs on someone where he forces them to make that FREE WILL choice.
I know. Lets put this in dumbed down human words and examples so these athesist idiots can understand it. Lets say God has lived to the end of time and went back in time with a time machine. Then, he KNOWS whats gonna happen to this girl. Does that mean he forced it? There, by simply following HUMAN laws he can do it, not to mention the fact that he's all powerful. Some1 explain to me how that's not possible, reasonable, and/or understandable???
I expected no less from xtians. Name calling! I suspect if I were face-to-face there would be violence. An intellectual debate must be overly frustrating for you two.
I'll use a "dumb-down" analogy. If God knows you will choose the sandwich, can you then choose the mice instead? If you can, then God didn't know what you would do. So the answer is YES, if God does know the outcome, you have no choice but to follow a path that fulfills that known outcome.
which is funny cuz i havent used an names. Classic atheist... makin up stuff. And u just proved to me ur narrow minded if u really think that way. Theres no way 2 explain it if ur not gonna listen and think.
"Lets put this in dumbed down human words and examples so these athesist idiots can understand it"
Your words... I guess in your church that would not be considered name calling, but as an atheist (spelled correctly here) I find it offensive.
"narrow minded"
ditto as above
"way to show ur ignorance"
ditto as above
If you consider yourself a good Christian, I would much rather be with intellectuals in the science lab. You could not convince me of anything with your arrogance.
This comment has received too many negative votesshow
Thats not name calling. Name calling is using a derogative word that is untrue. I have simply described u in a way that YOU have PROVED is true. Now, yes i used the word idiot. That would be name calling. Now, i've given u a rational explantion and all u've done is claim it false presenting NO FACTS as 2 how its not true. Ur just like every other atheist. Just throw out untrue statements and present no facts or logic. Ur just wastin my time. Oh, and entertain me by trying to prove me wrong
How in the hell does God NOT knowing the outcomes make him know the outcome and force it to happen. U just contradicted urself trying 2 get 2 different points across- both of which r untrue
I think the creator of humans (if there was any) isn't necessarily the creator of everything else! ... how do we know that there haven't been multiple creators through time who might not exist now! ..... this is the problem with religious people that they believe in things as they were told to believe! without doubting.... and that of course comes from the fear of going to hell if they do ...... Searching to know the truth takes a lot of guts folks!
Yeah, she presented very well. I have to hand it to the reverend though, he handled it pretty well other than not being able to answer the questions. But, the argument is what counts and he didn't do too well on that point.
@StarPathOne....so you're mad? Good for you! You can sit here and waste your time trying to tell everyone you dont agree with that they're idiots, but that will only make it seem like you're actually interested in finding some truth to the Bible.
1. First you must prove that there IS a God. Then she would be 'choosing' to reject it.
2. Her point stands that the idea of 'Free Will' was fabricated.
3. Foreknowledge of everything would destroy the entire point of why we are supposedly here. Isn't this a 'test' of faith in God? If you fail the test you burn in hell. If God already knows the answers, why bother with the test at all? Just put the souls in Heaven and Hell and be done with it.
1. Youre asking for empirical proof of God, give me empirical proof of Logic first.
2. No it doesnt. I guess God isnt omniscient, omnipotent, or omnipresent, nor is he a trinity since those words arent in the Bible. That is flawed logic.
3. Look Dan Barker, you still fail to show how knowing the future of a free will choice forces the person to make it. We are here to have a relationship with God.
4. Especially when it saves the souls of billions right?
LOL?! I didnt kno false facts that r easily refutable counted as a good explanation. Guess u athesits r easier to please than i thought...............
Answering a question with bullshit isn't really an answer. The priest is wrong on free will.
The words "free will" can be found in a with a search tool if they were present in the bible. Also an all knowing god and free will contradict each other.
Ending was funny.
x9r2k1 1 month ago
alright show, but the "priest" was a little too obvious a Poe.
1stCainite 4 months ago
God loves you. And he need MONEY!
axekicker78 5 months ago
does that make the priests/ minister more important to you? You having to confess it to him? Y cant u just confess it to God? Isn’t he the most understanding of them all? Y seeks guidance from an average human and not from the almighty? And how come you can’t just confess it to your mother/father or most trusted friend? Y not does that? Are priests that more important or more understanding then some1 you've known all your life? And I apologize for the amount of space I took up
dogdeball88 5 months ago
3. what happens if u have been raised a christan all your life. Then, lets say a war happens it wipes out most of the people from your neigbor hood and you want 2 b cleansed of ur sins but there r no preachers/ministers around they've all perished in the war and you cannot cleanse yoyr sins. Dont you have to confess to a priest or a minister? and my last question is if you really love God and Jesus etc. You love them with all your heart and you go to church EVERY SINGLE DAY where u confess
dogdeball88 5 months ago
these horrible habits because everything that a family does rubs off on the child and so this sweet innocent child learns to become a robber, cheater etc. Because of the family, this person never was introduced 2 God nor had he heard of the name Jesus would he go 2 hell and burn in a lake of fire?Just because he didnt have the information of God? There for not believing in Jesus?
dogdeball88 5 months ago
Can any christen answer these questions please?
What happens when a person commits no sin, and has done wonderful things in the world as so many people have done? However they do not believe in Jesus nor God, would they go to hell and burn for all eternity? Even though they committed no sin and just didn’t believe in God?
2. What happens if a baby is born, however he is born into a very bad family, a family that lies, steals and cheats etc. Do all the things the bible says not to, ad it learns
dogdeball88 5 months ago
Sorry I meant in spite of an all knowing God.
Brownwith0 7 months ago
Howdy. I like what your doing. However you can have free will inspire of an all knowing God. If I have the ability to see what's going to happen in the future, it would not impede anyone's free will. Now if I determined what's going to happen as in the double predestination doctrine, then the argument can be made.
Brownwith0 7 months ago
He said, "I understand god.............?..................?" *cough cough* what...? So he understands god... I bet he could create a universe if he wanted to. What an unbelievably ignorant thing to say.. If he's supposed to be a priest.. He's not teaching religion at all, just preaching his own pride and arrogance.
MysticNinjaSage 7 months ago
This seems like a joke
llaayyttoonn 8 months ago
First of all she is fucking annoying and I am catholic and personally believe atheist don't go to hell if they live a good life if they help with charity and are kind they won't but if they are a bad human being then yes and there is purgatory for people to pray for there sins to be forgiven
rhencley 9 months ago
lol wow.... i hate this guys answers these aren't answer just avoiding facts which is all they seem to do..
KnightOnlinell 9 months ago
Is this a joke?
masteretl 10 months ago
i actually brought the free will argument in church one day when i was still a christian. no one wanted to answer my question and i kind of got swept to the side. i am a proud atheist now, glad to have my life free of fairy tales
mattakudesu 10 months ago
It's not that God forces you to love him. It's simply choice and consequence. If you accept God, you go to Heaven. If not, you go to Hell. It's just like any modern day choice. If you sell someone something, you get money to make a living. If you don't, you can't.
MegaTouchy 10 months ago
@MegaTouchy most modern day choices dont provide an infinite punishment for a finite crime. that makes absolutely no sense. and by gods rules, even good people who dont believe will burn for eternity. they might as well all have been baby rapers. why do christians NOT think critically about their own beliefs to make sure what they believe in is real or not?
mattakudesu 10 months ago
This did get me to think. I understand that the point is if free-will was included in the Bible (God-given) then people would not choose to follow out of fear of punishment. However, my opinion is (assuming that God exists) that if God wanted people to freely choose him, why would he cater to every single inconvenience they experience on earth? Then people would not rely on God through faith. Instead, they would take advantage and have no respect. He would not be viewed a holy, fatherly figure.
gmscorpio111691 10 months ago
MrGangleyMoose 11 months ago
God briings a person into being because God loves him, at the same time gives him free will, but if he chooses to become a atheis, after death he will be burned in hell; although god loves him. Does it make sence?
universalminder 11 months ago
that guy can not answer any question
paperfol 11 months ago
If Christians really read the bible, the old testament too and stopped when they got to parts about God's instructions to attacking a town or when you Rape a virgin take her as your wife, or why god turned the wife of the only good man in two cities to Salt for having compassion on the people who were being killed. Hey if God could send Lot 2 angels why not have them hover above the cities glowing and singing to God maybe everyone could have been saved and God would not have had to kill anyone.
robtay1963 11 months ago
lol at the nonsence of the answers XD
86Corvus 11 months ago
LMAO I love his responses!
Argument 1: I don't know where it is in scripture, but you can't prove it's not there!
Argument 2: I don't understand it. Next argument please
Argument 3: ...God loves you?
PWNED!
kville105125 11 months ago
I don't get why you upload these, you're basically proving atheism right. If the only answer to those questions is 'god loves you' then you failed to prove her wrong. Are you sure you aren't an atheist ;)
dutchbb1979 1 year ago
@DiscoveringReligion
(...cont.) Therefore, if God cannot change his own fate, then he is not omnipotent, for he lacks the power to control his future actions. If a God exists, he can be only be all-knowing or all-powerful, he cannot be both. These are the logical inconsistencies that arise when claims aren't based on evidence, but mere speculation. I have yet to use this in a debate and I wonder how an apologist would respond.
DiscoveringReligion 1 year ago
You made a lot of great points, very well done! There is another logical inconsistency that has to do with the very nature of God, which I find interesting. The monotheistic religions claim God is both omniscient AND omnipotent. However, if God is omniscient then he would know all of his future actions. This means He would be tied to his own fate, unable to change his destiny, because everything he does would be predestined. (cont...)
DiscoveringReligion 1 year ago
Trollololololol'd She just owned him.
ZainOnyx 1 year ago
Grace, mercy and peace from God the Father and from Jesus Christ, the Father's Son, be with God's sons in Truth and
Love.
Can you please help me with some money for I am in need having some delayed debts?
I invite all to my channel as well.
May God bless you in Truth.
holyspiritoftruth 1 year ago
i feel so loved being cast into everlasting fire... yay fire. thank you god, you operate in mysterious ways...
fishslappr 1 year ago
I'm sorry Rev. Jim but "Prove you've read every word of the Bible" was not a refutation of her assertion that that the Bible does not teach the existence of "Free Will." The only way to refute that assertion would be to quote book, chapter, and verse a biblical passage asserting the doctrine of religious free will. Why didn't she call him on that? They both failed. And, I agree with others that this whole video was a big fake. And yet, the rev. could answer even the fake conundrums.
Kailoa36 1 year ago
If the Lady just really read the entire bible she will not say that "freewill" is not in the Bible....."Whatsoever thy hand findeth to do, do it with thy might; for there is no work, nor device, nor knowledge, nor wisdom, in the grave, whither thou goest." Ecclesiastes 9:10
Maxim0Bularan 1 year ago
as an atheist, I appreciate your evidence, but you didnt have to be a total stuck up bitch about it. Next time you decided to "represent" atheists lets try not to make our, already negative image, worse. Kthanks
jacacob 1 year ago
Love me or burn in hell! Wow, what a horrible entity.
gotitans999 1 year ago
shes not an athiest, they are both full of shit.
999livevil999 1 year ago
god is a myth
billbo1154 1 year ago
@TheKodi41 Thank you! I concur.
HardonZ 1 year ago
@Niccals
An illustration. There you go. Illustration, metaphor, story, made up crap.
No wonder Jamie dumped your sorry ass. Shes hot and seems to not fall for horror story fairy tales. If i had a girl like that, id never let her go by being stupid.
MrKevMan 1 year ago
Holy fake!
MrKevMan 1 year ago
what just happened....
bangbangmcgee 1 year ago
Staged,but the lady was spot on with her observations
morbidisity 1 year ago 4
@Planjane69 First of all . LOL a priest pointer.
dude does it matter? it poses interesting questions that we all wondered..
iEngoyPie 1 year ago
She is a terrible actor
rmatthews8984 1 year ago 2
never seen such a hugely fake debate, questions are clearly pre arranged
MrDaziam 1 year ago
Does the bible mention freewill? It doesn't need to- why? Simple- because God made man in his OWN image (from the bible). There's your answer. I believe in God. Religion, to me, is for the "needy" people that feel guilty due to their own stupidity and poor choices, and do so using THEIR freewill. Religion has nothing to do with God. Does God know all, yes! The verse you speak of "knowing u all your days" refers to your soul- nothing more. Threat is a control method of the church- not God.
TheKodi41 1 year ago
is this real or not? the end is so stupid...
idSuperego 1 year ago
yeh this is FAKE, i could come up with better answers than that lmao
turkishxboi 1 year ago
lol u guys dont realize this is acting? puzzled look fail at the end of the video. Anway interesting thought but the tree diagram was flawed because she placed herself as an athiest for the end of it. she doesnt know the final result, only god does. im only going on what she said. now if you assume u kno ur going to remain an atheist in ur lil tree diagram miss bad actor, ur deciding ur own path right there and therefore giving urself religious freedom right there.. dumb ass script, bad acting
soccerpro4943 1 year ago
i just read a couple of scriptures that says "free will".....lol....can someone who supports the lady explain her side of the story of this free will part?....thanks
mazaratialbum 1 year ago
@mazaratialbum
Can you give me the verses please. I could not find them. Thanks.
ReligousTruth 1 year ago
it speaks about free will offerings, but yeah it doesn't say "directly" that god has given you free will....but if jesus "asked" (as opposed to "told") ppl to come to him and they chose to do so, it was on their own free will, he didn't make them do it....not everyone came to him.....i'm not christian so i dont care either way, but it was interesting. : ).....i'm agnostic, i believe in a higher power but i don't like organizaed religion. : )
mazaratialbum 1 year ago
@mazaratialbum
So then she was correct, it isn't in the bible anywhere?
You said you read the verses. Now you're saying "Not exactly!"
Which is it? What is the verse and chapter you are speaking about?
example: MATT: 6:5-6 Jesus says you should pray in private.
Your turn.... Please tell me where it says God gave man free will.
ReligousTruth 1 year ago
@mazaratialbum A higher power? Do you call it God? Then how are you agnostic? I dunno, I thought agnostics are the fence sitters. Theists believe in personal god(s) who interfere(s) with human life. Deists believe in god(s) who for whatever reason do(es) not interfere with human life. Atheists do not believe that there is any god.
nowayout001 1 year ago
it doesn't say it exactly, it speaks about free will offerings but that is it....but god's son asked ppl to come to him and he didn't force them to so i guess that can be considered free will....i'm not religious at all, i'm agnostic, but i always laugh at ppl when they speak about the bible because they always want to get the words "exact"....they don't do that in any other book but that book, lol.
mazaratialbum 1 year ago
@mazaratialbum " i just read a couple of scriptures that says "free will".....lol....can someone who supports the lady explain her side of the story of this free will part?....thanks"
Can you show me where? I fucking hate it when people say stuff like I Just read it word for word free will and then don't say where they found it. Let me know because I seriously want to know where in the scripture it says "free will" word for word like you stated.
TheLuckySaGe 1 year ago
I kind of wish the lady practiced her debate a little more... straightfoward.
takes a lot of guts for her to participate in an open debate like this, yet she seemed lost.
FlamingMicrowav 1 year ago
fake video.
HolyRevelation 1 year ago
Lol clearly actors reading off scripts on the laptops, not a "debate" - but the script is still quite good and I agree with everything she said. How could you not?
leighgridley 1 year ago
lol amateur theater
ArchRascal 1 year ago
This has to be a joke.
Yahwehormyway 1 year ago
She wins!!!
moonstar7 1 year ago
The young woman has done a great job of pointing out logical inconsistencies in the Bible and that God does not control our lives. It's a very good thing, in my opinion, that God is not limited by the descriptions in the Bible or other scriptures.
gsco82 1 year ago
This is obviously fake, i have only been studying the bible for a little over 2 years and I can easily answer all those questions with honest, biblical answers that actually have substance unlike this man pretending to be a reverend, reminding us of Gods love instead of giving honest insightfull answers.
jclser 1 year ago
@jclser
Well then why do you not give these words of wisdom Mr. Scholar of 2 years? You simply state here that you can, but then you don't.
1. Is free will written in scripture?
2. If God knows your fate, do you really have a choice?
3. Can you force someone to love you with the threat of eternal damnation?
Let's hear it!
ReligousTruth 1 year ago 12
@ReligousTruth
OK, I've made some research.
First of all, these arguments are not in favor of atheists but in favor of non-christians. They do not cancel out those real and/or hypothetical gods that can exist.
1. There are strong hints in the Bible that we do not have a free will at all, but nothing tells us directly that we don't. One of hints is in the video: god knew one man before he was born. However, it does not prove that god did not set the whole thig up.
vldmr0tube 1 year ago
Intentionally creating one man without free will and limit free will of people around them to spread the faith.
However there is a second argument. When Jeusus gave a prophesy that Peter will deny him, why didn't he stopped him and Peter couldn't do anything about it. Instead Jesus run into details about that cock will crow twice before this happens.
This strongly hints that mere existence of free will is not the case.
vldmr0tube 1 year ago
2. No you don't. However, if you a materialist then you can ask "If future already exist, do we have a choise?' Well, No. However we do have an illusion of free will and since we do not know the future then we are qute happy with it.
3. Yes. People did it for centuries. "I TOOK her as a wife", we still have leftovers of this atitude. And spanking children is still around. Emancipation is quite a recent phenomenon and where comes the notion of love from if not
vldmr0tube 1 year ago
@ReligousTruth
from love between man and woman and love between parents and children.
vldmr0tube 1 year ago
@ReligousTruth Answer # 1. Are the words free will in the scriptures, no. However it is clear that we have the ability to choose. Which is the thought behind the term (free will) or even (choice). After God made Adam he allowed him to choose the names of the Animals, after God made Eve / Adam chose her name. God even commanded choice "Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat" But then comes consequencs " But of the tree of the knowledge of Good and evil thou shalt not eat of it"
jclser 1 year ago
@ReligousTruthAnswer 1 cont. "For in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die" This consequence was made known to Adam because of Gods concern for him, but God allowed him to choose or gave him free will. Just as he gave the great deceiver which comes soon after!
jclser 1 year ago
@ReligousTruth Answer # 2 I will give an verbal illustration: I have an uncle named Bob, Bob always eats all the Mac & Cheese at my grandmothers thanksgiving dinner. Every year for the past 20 years, but this year, I bet my brother 100 hundred dollars Bob would eat all the Mac & Cheese. Thanksgiving came, and I got 100 bucks cause just as I knew he would Bob ate all of it.
Just because I knew Bob would eat all the Mac & Cheese doesn't mean I interfered with his ability to choose.
jclser 1 year ago
@ReligousTruth Answer 2 cont. Just as I know Bobs nature, and tendancies, God knows our very heart. Every thought is known by him, he knows our nature, and what we will choose. The fact that God told us of the consequence, and has made the way to himself known, but does not force service only encourages the basis for belief in our own ability to choose.
jclser 1 year ago
@ReligousTruth Answer # 3 The honest answer to this question is YES, you could. But this question is not an accurate representation of Biblical TRUTH. Eternal damnation is not a threat, it's a warning. In God alone resides all that is good, happiness, joy, satisfaction, LOVE. Eternal Damnation is merely eternal separation from all that is Good. If you are separated from all that is good there is nothing left but, all that is bad. Hate, torment, pain, a lake of fire which is unquenchable.
jclser 1 year ago
@ReligousTruth Answer 3 cont. God gave us existance, yes, knowing that some would refuse him. But that doesn't take away an individuals ability to accept Gods grace, repent and live. If you have lived, then you have made a bad choice or decision, this decision has eternal consequences. And is the most important one we will ever make! Having spent the last several years of my life studying the scriptures, knowing the TRUTH. I look forward to serving God forever, seek and you will find..CHRIST
jclser 1 year ago
@ReligousTruth
Those are silly questions. Forget all the wanna be logical philosophical talk. Logic does not lead you to believe in god(s), demons, angels and demons.
The fact that we have to have a discussion about if a god(s) exist is a clear sign that I should doubt it. It's not like people wake up in the morning and have a discussion about if the sun really exist. You act as if it's obvious and it's not obvious that a god(s) exist.
Bible scholar, Peter pan scholar blah blah blah.
RefutingPolytheist 1 year ago
@ReligousTruth 1. rev 22:17, and Josh 24:15
2. Just because God knows your fate doesn't mean he wills it. ex. i know the sun will rise in the east and set in the west Tomarrow, also someone will be born and someone will die. But none of these will happen because I willed it. I just know.
3. God isn't threatening us with damnation if we don't love him. He's telling us of the reality for those who reject him. So we can make an informed DECISION.
ithcus777 1 year ago
@ReligousTruth
1. Actually the whole Bible advocates the idea that ppl can by free will choose to do good and evil, choose to accept or deny God, choose to pay the price and follow Jesus. Though I don't see these 2 words "free will" being put together in the Bible.
2. Well, God knows your fate, that means you have a choice, why? Because God knows your fate doesn't mean that God determines your fate.
3. No, since that's not true love. This is called Coercion.
nowayout001 1 year ago
@ReligousTruth
1. Yes
2; Yes
3. No - but you can show them how much you love them, by dieing for their sins and giving them the opportunity to repent and be saved from internal damnation.
Nice fake video by the way... :)
Breakdown916 11 months ago
@jclser God wants sheep to follow him around, cant have freethinkers upsetting the flock can he?! But then the god of the bible is an immoral ass, an ignorant fool, and an obvious oxymoron.
ExcaliburClan 10 months ago
Haha, she took him to the cleaners. Gud girl :)
QSLegend 1 year ago
When is the next episode?
Pharaoh481 1 year ago
@Pharaoh481
We are currently working on an episode called "Miracles" and should have it out within a month or so.
ReligousTruth 1 year ago
@ Jamie- you should have also added the obvious rebuttal at the end and asked why god hated all the other sperm. If God allowed an atheist sperm to be born because he loved you (the atheist) then he couldn't have loved the others whom he didn't allow to be born.
hlkolaya 1 year ago
This is awesome! I just happened to stumble across it :-) very intelligent young lady ;-)
hlkolaya 1 year ago
Ok i had to shut it off at 3 minutes. GOD does not give you birth, your momma does. GOD does not know if you will do something or not! This is a set up and will be looked at as a comedy bit! Just so everyone knows (Not everyone goes to heaven). It is pretty simple folks! Example: If you feel that hurting someone intentionally is ok, well then you will go to a certain place! If you feel it is wrong then you will go to another place. You choose so there is no sorrow.
67bandit67 1 year ago
Easy questions for the equipped mind...Either you are in Gods will or your not. It's real simple, God see's our lives as they were purposed to be not what '"We" will them to be. You can live according to his promises or seek aimlessly toward your own. His word leads us into a hand in hand relationship with God...when we choose different his plan for us is lost!
timj316 1 year ago
@timj316 So let me get this straight. If I tell my kid, "You have the choice of doing as I say and you will be rewarded or not doing as I say and I will punish you forever", I would be a good father like God? And I should stop loving my kid because he/she doesn't do everything I tell him/her to do? Think about it. God will let me burn in eternal hell if I don't follow his rules, and that is his loving me? Wow.
moullineaux 1 year ago
I'd love to answer the three questions with 1 answer, God is complex because he is God, if we understood Him then he wouldn't be God.
Otherien 1 year ago
@Otherien // if god doesn't have the ability or if he doesn't care if his creations understand him, he doesn't sound like a coherent god. and why would anyone follow , even devote their lives to something they do not understand?
wokkitout 1 year ago
@Otherien "god is complex because he is god" you havent answered why god is complex you simply make an excuse because you dont have an answer, what if i were to change some of the words in that statement with, a tree has leaves because its a tree, it doesnt answer the question and simply lowers ones credibility of being an intelligent human being
942nick 1 year ago
How many Italians in the mafia are catholic?
pchtermino1 1 year ago
God loves me..but he's going to let me burn in a lake of fire because he couldn't force me to love him. God sounds like a dick.
joanna910 1 year ago
"Reverend Jim explains that God loves her."
Yeah see that doesn't work.
AR333 1 year ago
He got owned. And what a crappy answer, too.
AlixTheMighty 1 year ago
very obviously staged. the priest is not a real priest. All true and valid points, but the acting was pretty lame.
joe3eagles 1 year ago
Fake atheist is fake.
denimvest 1 year ago
bad acting..
arisathanactor 1 year ago
this is a shameless attempt by two christians,one posing as an atheist,not to bring up any rational debate,but to show that all christians are well manered and all atheist are rude-shameless and embarrasing
InSinGrin 1 year ago
Father Jim - is this video real? As in non-satirical? Cos if it is a comedy you have unbelievable acting skills and I would hate to play poker with you cos you'd clean me out!!!
victorbrincat 1 year ago
I think the better question to have asked in this "debate" is why free will is a gift. Why is that a sign of love? When a mother goes out with her child, she holds the child's hand and doesn't let him walk on his own - this is to prevent the child from unwittingly hurting or even killing himself, say from walking into traffic. That mother has taken away her child's free will, but she's done so out of love. So, if free will really is a sign of love, should she let the child do anything he wants?
thurstonite 1 year ago
@thurstonite
Are you confusing "free will" with "religious free will"?
I have free will, because I choose to keep my child safe from traffic. I have deprived my child of free will in the process. Totally agreed! But, I have free will because I am an individual making decisions, not because some god gave me a gift. Religious free will does NOT exist. Free will does exist. Her logic is irrefutable. All three points hit the target. I love the "Gun to head" analogy! It IS NOT in scripture! etc...
SecularAdvocate 1 year ago
Terrible. I am an affirmed atheist and agree with all of the points that the lady makes. However, this is transparently a fake "debate," and such fraud only serves to undermine our cause. Even I could put up a better counter argument than that fake "Revered Jim," and there are plenty of great, legitimate debates taking place out there. Please don't undermine our credibility. We don't need to resort to this! If you're going to have a fake debate, at least make it humorous and more obvious.
andrewucla 1 year ago
@andrewucla
Fake or not, this solidifies thoughts I've had. I don't see how this could possibly "undermine our cause" if the truth in logic exists. If this makes you feel like you have been violated in some way, perhaps you should take a Valium. I for one hope they make more of these dealing with miracles, prayer, etc. The only arguments I've heard trying to refute this logic were lame at best. At least this preacher is honest, there is no refuting her points! Read the comments for yourself!!
SecularAdvocate 1 year ago
is this for real?
jchen1023 1 year ago
@jchen1023
I assure you, religion is real. We take religion VERY seriously!
ReligousTruth 1 year ago
@ReligousTruth I agree. Religion is real, but your God is man made and fictional.
runnysmokey0304 1 year ago
@ReligousTruth
She refuted you, and after she showed you three points that you answered to with changing to the other proof, until you got to the third point and couldn't answer, so you said ''god loves you'' and ended the video. So, if god loves you, why does he send you to burn in hell? You sir, are a terrible debater.
SerialJusticer 1 year ago
@ReligousTruth Religion is real... God isn't!!!!
pillutimati 1 year ago
This video is horrible.
MrChayeah 1 year ago
Reverend Jim is pretty bad at this.
CheckAllFrequencies 1 year ago
@CheckAllFrequencies
Yes he is. He really sucks! But don't they all? Especially the Catholic Priests. :)
SecularAdvocate 1 year ago
Atheism is crazy. So is Christianity. collisions chapter 2 Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ. All these lies Christianity, Islam, Atheism, Catholicism,
KingSha12 1 year ago
While I agree whith everying she has to say I would like to point out that this video looks like it was staged. The acting really isn't very good. I'm okay if it was staged, I just don't think it is right to try and pass it off as an actual interview.
corcor1976 1 year ago
I hate how whenever an atheist gets into a debate they get all self-righteous, and snobby. It makes us look bad.
Hrash0 1 year ago
Let me know your feelings on this and if you would go against gods plan. If god gives us free will would you stop me from acting on that gift, in opposition of gods will. If I'm raping a child in a room and you walked by seeing the act, I would hope
I'm rapping a young woman, you walk by and see the act. There's a gun on the nightstand. Do yo shoot me?
ssportster00 1 year ago
ReligousTruth 1 year ago
@ssportster00 <--- Basically explains you right their. But hey let me answer your question...I would take the gun and beat you with it, no need to kill you. Your entire question is a fallacy because you don't understand God or the Bible. Yes we have free will, but we also have rules to follow (i.e the 10 Commandants). People have a skewed definition of freedom now a days, freedom is NOT Anarchy.
Otherien 1 year ago
This is an act right? A joke?
ssportster00 1 year ago
@ssportster00
Religion is not, nor never will be, a joke!! Religion is serious. Where will you spend eternity? That, is a serious question that only you can answer!!! Will you kill someone in God's name today, or will you help a person in need? You do have free will to choose. Will you choose the God of love, or the God of war? Proving the bible is inerrant really doesn't matter!! How you treat others of all walks of life is how you will be judged. Look in the mirror, and judge yourself today!
ReligousTruth 1 year ago
@ReligousTruth
i have a question to... further extend this interview you had, i believe the women was going to say something but you ended the interview... if god loves you even if you don't love him, why does he allow you to burn in a lake of fire for all eternity, youtube is a little bad at having a debate, i request, and i respect you even if your refuse, to have a debate over an instant messenger board, i will try to not be offensive in any way, thank you for reading my comment
lbIeesel 1 year ago
God knows your every move and every decision. We all have a purpose, and God knows where you will end up on the path he has set for you. You have the choice to follow the path...or stray. He's giving you a chance because he loves you. There is no contradiction. Period.
EgyptianPebblez17 1 year ago
Priest: "I've never... seen this... before."
VenomOXP 1 year ago
women thing they are aloud to talk among men.
TheMalmal21 1 year ago
stupid women thing they are aloud to talk among men.
TheMalmal21 1 year ago
This is a joke, correct?
HimmiJoe 1 year ago
@HimmiJoe :
I assure you, we take religion very seriously!
ReligousTruth 1 year ago
@ReligousTruth This does seem very rehearsed.
corsair0001 1 year ago
This nails whats been bugging me for a long time, freewill in a religious 'god' knows all sense is logically wrong.
THANK YOU so much for making this explicitly clear!
Scanini 1 year ago
@Scanini This is logically compatible. I find it better to dispense with the God part though and simply go with the two possibilities of the universe being either deterministic or not. For God to know all the universe has to be deterministic, at the moment it does seem that the universe is not ( due to QM )
putting that aside:
Free will must be defined well first. If I ask you 'A' or 'B' and you pick 'B' I ask why? you then give reasons for choosing B. If we were to magically go back in
corsair0001 1 year ago
God is the absolute truth
Tushata 1 year ago
@Tushata God is a criminal
cufemeialapascut 1 year ago 5
which god?
maxpainfu1 1 year ago
"Unfortunately her arguments and examples were weak" In what way!? Pls elaborate! Why did god allow me to be born if he knew I would suffer in hell!? Because he loved me!? It's ludicrous from the start! I wasn't even there. :) What did he love exactly? The idea of me ending up in hell!!?
armelix73 1 year ago
Your video and debate is rough around the edges. It almost seems acted. Like a skit. Especially by her manner.
Unfortunately her arguments and examples were weak, and so we your answers. No disrespect intended. But I give you props for this effort.
2:40 "In my opinion". Unfortunately, that's what it all boils down to, in the end. For both sides! "Choice".
Faith is a choice (by way of a gift, but one has to accept that gift).
Love is a choice. CoExistence is a choice.
We debate to no end.
sickpupppy 1 year ago
This is what they call a shell game. Clearly that is not a real priest or minister, they are not so easily misled. This video is just more fodder for the atheist. Anything can be refuted if the script is written that way.
God knows where you will be at any given moment, not because you have a preordained mission, but because he knows that the way you chose to will lead you down a certain path. God will not take you there, he knows you will end up there based on choices, and you know it too.
082550 2 years ago
genius. Absolute genius. Ur my hero man :)
fsuownzall 2 years ago
This is excellent. I hope to see more.
ProfessorPEARL 2 years ago
What i dont understand is how does God knowing the future force it? U have 2 be seriously narrow minded to think this way. Maybe God knows she will turn Muslim by the end of her life. Does that mean he FORCED it 2 happen? Or, does it just simply mean he knew what was going to happen? Also, he gave u free will. U chose 2 go against God. Not his fault. Plus, u set a good example of what NOT to be like for those who come after you.............
fsuownzall 2 years ago
They are just grasping at straws playing games with semantics.
If I went back to the year 1836, know what the men at the Alamo would do but not even go near the Alamo. They would do exactly what I knew they would do. By my knowing it had nothing to do with them knowing it. I guess noone had free will in this situation right?
Or how about offering someone a sandwich or dead mice. Knowing they are going to pick the sandwich doesnt take away the freedom of that choice.
JesusforLife2 2 years ago
Here's the rub Jesus, You are not God and you are not Omniscient! If you go back in time you COULD NOT KNOW what would happen, because you would only know what happened the first time it happened. You could have changed the outcome simply by going back! Supposedly, only GOD is omniscient! He KNOWS, where you would only be guessing. Look at her prop! She CAN'T turn left at the first fork, if God KNOWS she will turn right toward atheism. Jamie's logic is irrefutable & LOGICAL! She is brilliant!!!
SecularAdvocate 2 years ago 6
LOL way to show ur ignorance. How do u know God isnt sure she's gonna turn Christian at age 43? Then she'd be theist. U kno she's gonna be athesit when she dies based on what SHE said. Maybe God knows she will turn Buddist by the end of her life. Then God KNOWS she would turn (idk wat direction, theres not 1 on her prop her Buddism :P ) but that doesnt mean she would force it. U seriously cant see this?? Its impossible to explain to some1 who has closed their mind off.
fsuownzall 2 years ago
Why don't you try using proper grammar. You type like crap its annoying to read..
Did you close your mind off at the 5th grade?
Martial024 2 years ago 6
I am fully capable of speaking proper english thank you. By using what is refered to as "texting lingo" I am able to type much faster, since I am after all in debates with more people than just you and I, well have other things to do. That is known as having a life. Now, do us all a favor and stay out of this before you end up embarassing yourself just like every other person I have ever debated. Also, you should try using proper grammer as well. Dumbass............
fsuownzall 2 years ago
Now, do you have anything intelligent to say (lol)? Or do you plan to try to slander me and not make this an intellegent conversation. I daresay i have had that happen too many times. With just about everyone I argue with after they realize how badly they are losing, in fact- save for a few intellegent people who actually know what they are talking about
fsuownzall 2 years ago
Didnt think so. Stupidity at a whole new lvl........
fsuownzall 1 year ago
Comment removed
fsuownzall 2 years ago
Your proof of the outcome changing by me merely going back in time even on a remote island across the world?
Just because only God is omniscient the dead mice analogy isnt negated. You are the one who has to prove God's foreknowledge has an action on a person's free will LOGICALLY.
When you say a person makes a CHOICE, by definition you are freely choosing to do something. Therefore, to later say that you have no choice in what you are doing is a contradiction of your statement.
JesusforLife2 2 years ago
Also, if she made the FREE WILL choice of being a theist on that fork, the tree would have showed her being a theist. It is simply an advance recording of what you will do based on the choices you will freely make. To assume otherwise the burden of proof is on you to logically explain this "action" God supposably performs on someone where he forces them to make that FREE WILL choice.
JesusforLife2 2 years ago
I know. Lets put this in dumbed down human words and examples so these athesist idiots can understand it. Lets say God has lived to the end of time and went back in time with a time machine. Then, he KNOWS whats gonna happen to this girl. Does that mean he forced it? There, by simply following HUMAN laws he can do it, not to mention the fact that he's all powerful. Some1 explain to me how that's not possible, reasonable, and/or understandable???
fsuownzall 2 years ago
I expected no less from xtians. Name calling! I suspect if I were face-to-face there would be violence. An intellectual debate must be overly frustrating for you two.
I'll use a "dumb-down" analogy. If God knows you will choose the sandwich, can you then choose the mice instead? If you can, then God didn't know what you would do. So the answer is YES, if God does know the outcome, you have no choice but to follow a path that fulfills that known outcome.
SecularAdvocate 2 years ago
which is funny cuz i havent used an names. Classic atheist... makin up stuff. And u just proved to me ur narrow minded if u really think that way. Theres no way 2 explain it if ur not gonna listen and think.
fsuownzall 2 years ago
@fsu
"Lets put this in dumbed down human words and examples so these athesist idiots can understand it"
Your words... I guess in your church that would not be considered name calling, but as an atheist (spelled correctly here) I find it offensive.
"narrow minded"
ditto as above
"way to show ur ignorance"
ditto as above
If you consider yourself a good Christian, I would much rather be with intellectuals in the science lab. You could not convince me of anything with your arrogance.
SecularAdvocate 2 years ago 2
This comment has received too many negative votes show
Thats not name calling. Name calling is using a derogative word that is untrue. I have simply described u in a way that YOU have PROVED is true. Now, yes i used the word idiot. That would be name calling. Now, i've given u a rational explantion and all u've done is claim it false presenting NO FACTS as 2 how its not true. Ur just like every other atheist. Just throw out untrue statements and present no facts or logic. Ur just wastin my time. Oh, and entertain me by trying to prove me wrong
fsuownzall 2 years ago
How in the hell does God NOT knowing the outcomes make him know the outcome and force it to happen. U just contradicted urself trying 2 get 2 different points across- both of which r untrue
fsuownzall 2 years ago
I think the creator of humans (if there was any) isn't necessarily the creator of everything else! ... how do we know that there haven't been multiple creators through time who might not exist now! ..... this is the problem with religious people that they believe in things as they were told to believe! without doubting.... and that of course comes from the fear of going to hell if they do ...... Searching to know the truth takes a lot of guts folks!
Bobik51 2 years ago
Yeah, she presented very well. I have to hand it to the reverend though, he handled it pretty well other than not being able to answer the questions. But, the argument is what counts and he didn't do too well on that point.
VictimeDeReligion 2 years ago
The girl won this debate, hands down.
LordBLB 2 years ago 3
This comment has received too many negative votes show
Just because the reverend didnt have the answers doesnt mean her illogical points are true. They are easily refuted and destroyed.
JesusforLife2 2 years ago
then go ahead and refute it please.
hutch876 2 years ago
I have refuted it and an atheist's response. Scroll through the comments.
JesusforLife2 2 years ago
@StarPathOne....so you're mad? Good for you! You can sit here and waste your time trying to tell everyone you dont agree with that they're idiots, but that will only make it seem like you're actually interested in finding some truth to the Bible.
MsEngland89 2 years ago
1 - So she rather not exist or be a robot? She openly chooses to reject God.
2 - The words omnipotence, omniscience, and omnipresent arent in the Bible. The word Bible isnt in the Bible, whats her point?
3- How does foreknowledge affect free will? Knowing the future doesnt mean forcing the future. God knows every result of ever decision you make.
4- You have broken God's Moral Law. The punishment is eternity in hell. Jesus willingly shed his blood on the cross as a payment for your sins
JesusforLife2 2 years ago
1. First you must prove that there IS a God. Then she would be 'choosing' to reject it.
2. Her point stands that the idea of 'Free Will' was fabricated.
3. Foreknowledge of everything would destroy the entire point of why we are supposedly here. Isn't this a 'test' of faith in God? If you fail the test you burn in hell. If God already knows the answers, why bother with the test at all? Just put the souls in Heaven and Hell and be done with it.
4. Human Sacrifice is EVIL my friend...
LordBLB 2 years ago
1. Youre asking for empirical proof of God, give me empirical proof of Logic first.
2. No it doesnt. I guess God isnt omniscient, omnipotent, or omnipresent, nor is he a trinity since those words arent in the Bible. That is flawed logic.
3. Look Dan Barker, you still fail to show how knowing the future of a free will choice forces the person to make it. We are here to have a relationship with God.
4. Especially when it saves the souls of billions right?
JesusforLife2 2 years ago
@LordBLB Brilliant explanation
5542O 2 years ago
LOL?! I didnt kno false facts that r easily refutable counted as a good explanation. Guess u athesits r easier to please than i thought...............
fsuownzall 2 years ago