The Archbishop of Portland, Oregon - Roman Catholic Challenge - and the SSPX

[Oblationem]

Think of the Traditional Catholic Latin Mass as 100% Solid Gold. It just is, I Am.

Think of the Novus Ordo mass and Vatican II as fiat money; it doesn’t hold its value. Every time they, i.e., the Vatican tempts to fix it, most recently with the Neocatechumenal Way, it loses more value.

[MegaCaseMaster]

Sspx does not have canonical status so they cannot partake in catholic only events. They can only partake if it is interfaith events, along with other religions. Sspx have to realise that they do not have canonical status thus their confessions and marriages are invalid.

[Oblationem]

@MegaCaseMaster

The SSPX was founded INSIDE the Church and there has been nothing done to put the SSPX outside the Church. Study up!

It is not the SSPX that has changed what the Church has always taught and thought about the Catholic Faith. By their fruits you shall know them eh? And speaking of fruits, It is not the SSPX that has a HIGH percentage of homosexual and pedophile priests in their ranks…

[MegaCaseMaster]

From biography of lefebvre by mallerais to JP2 on p627,lefb says “....sspx...has been recognized...70 to 75...there should be no difficulty in recognizing it again”. Clearly Lefebvre knew that sspx had no canonical status anymore. sspx has many scandals also.

[Oblationem]

Yes, as you read on p.628 he wants bishops to be chosen from the priest’s of tradition. The SSPX is not in a normal situation with the Church, but still there has been nothing to put the SSPX outside of the Church. For you to prove your case that the SSPX has no legitimacy, you would have to prove that the Church is not in a state of emergency. It pleases me that the SSPX is a bone in the throat of liberal Catholics that they can’t spit out or swallow. Have a nice day.

[MegaCaseMaster]

lefebve has clearly stated that sspx has no canonical status. sspx is catholic, but has no canonical status thus its confessions and marriages are invalid. The Holy Father has made this very clear. sspx need to start to understand what the pope is actually saying. The church is dying in some parts and booming in other parts of the world. The church is not in the state of emergency. I go to mass every Sunday at NO, like many others do.

[Oblationem]

Archbishop Lefebvre did not say that the SSPX has no canonical status. The only reason that you would say that the Church is not in a state of emergency is because you refuse to see the facts as they are. Because you go to mass every Sunday does not mean that the facts as they are not there, pull your head out of the sand. There is little grace from the N.O. mass. In all of the Church’s history there has not been a worse time for the Church than post Vatican II. By their fruits…

[MegaCaseMaster]

Lefebvre did say that sspx has no canonical status by asking that sspx be recognized like it ONCE was. It is in black & white and very clear. It also clearly stated on the official rosary crusade “The lifting of the excommunication”, not “The lifting of the alleged excommunication” was written. Again clear evidence that the bishops were excommunicated. V2 has had many saints. How many saints does sspx have that are recognized by the roman catholic church? None.

[Oblationem]

Nothing has happened in the Church to put the SSPX outside of the Church. You quote one Archbishop who called the Novus Ordo, “not Catholic”. The SSPX accepting that the excommunication was a valid excommunication was a tactical error as there was nothing legitimately canonical to excommunicate them for other than them wanting to stay Catholic. That the N.O. has saints is not an infallible act and will one day be overturned. Padre Pio wanted nothing to do with the N.O. mass.

[MegaCaseMaster]

lefevbe is who I quote who admits that sspx has no canonical status. A tactical error, rubbish. Sspx knew full well that they was excommunicated & had to write the truth, because all the internal documentation of sspx said alleged excommunication. Wow they can overturn saints.. that is a new one. Padre Pio met lefevbe & never mentioned one should joining sspx in his legendary 100s of documented confessions. Pio as a saint maybe overturned in the future also..lol

[Oblationem]

No, you are wrong again, archbishop Lefebvre never said the SSPX had no canonical status. It is what you try to infer he said. Yes, saints are not infallible made and can be un-sainted. However I think that Padre Pio will stand the test of time. One N.O. saint comes to mind, JP2 blessed the sex criminal presbyter Marcial Maciel late General Director of the Legionnaires of Christ who repeatedly raped and assaulted his members. A fine example of a N.O. saint.

[MegaCaseMaster]

Yes he did. Leferbve said that sspx has no canonical status by asking that sspx be recognized like it ONCE was. Like it once was, was because it lost the canonical status after 1975. Leferbve knew it. Padre Pio had met leferbve. Padre Pio could read the future. He predicted JP2 would be pope. Now after meeting leferbve, he had no excuse not to tell his penitents to join sspx and have no part of NO.. so He will be un-sainted also..lol

[Oblationem]

The archbishop NEVER said that the SSPX does not have canonical status. By asking that the Church recognize the SSPX as it once did, does not mean that the SSPX has no canonical status. The Church is in a State of Emergency. Never before in the history of the Church have times been so dark for the Church. The SSPX’s canonical status comes from the fact that the Church is in a State of Emergency. It’s in Canon Law, look it up. Padre Pio is a legitimate Saint who will stand as is.

[MegaCaseMaster]

I do not refuse to see things how they are. The west has become secularised. The pope has said this. I was talking to a protestant friend and they said the protestant church is in crisis because no one is going to church. They have the same problem. V2 is the reason?lol. My NO priest is Indian and he was saying how the missions came to India to convert them, and now Indian priest go to the west to convert them. Life goes on..

[Oblationem]

@MegaCaseMaster

Yes, Vatican II is to blame. Before V2 Protestants who disagreed with the Church still respected what the Church stood for as the standard for all even though they disagreed theologically. That you would try to support V2 is your ignorance and your refusal to see what V2 has done to the entire world. Obama was voted in because of you Novus Ordo catholics, small c. Shame on you all…

[MegaCaseMaster]

Okay so what you are saying is the protestants are part responsible for V2 (sspx/fellay say so) which backfired and also killed their own church? Lol. The fruits of V2 are starting to happen. Go search utube on V2 vocations & how many young people are entering the seminaries & V2 do not force vocations like sspx do. Go search Fr Larry Richards & listen to his sermons.

[Oblationem]

@MegaCaseMaster

No I didn’t say Protestants were responsible for V2, I said that before V2 Protestants respected the Catholic Church. However there were six Protestants that helped formulate the N.O. mass. Yes the fruits of V2 are happening and have been happening: The “Index of Leading Catholic Indicators” by Kenneth C. Jones says: Total priests per 10,000 Catholics in 1965 was 12.85 – in 2007 the number is 7.00. In 2020 the percentage is projected to be an 18% decrease.

[AbidingDood]

@1024cds There have been multiple SSPX priests dismissed for molesting children, and also homosexual activity in and after seminary. Sinners are on both sides of the fence.

[Oblationem]

It could be as you say. People are people wherever you go. The difference is that on the Novus Ordo side of the fence; molesting children is a protected status covered-up by higher-ups that are also pedophiles and homosexuals. One can read this in the secular news. Even parishioners themselves will petition for them, go figure. Novus Ordos will KNOWINLY ordain homosexuals and have even tried to get them into the seminaries. At least Traditionalists throw their butts out…

[smurray36]

why in heaven's name would the SSPX WANT to be accepted into the Novus ordo?

[Oblationem]

You got me. Moreover there are thousands of us who have sold our homes and moved hundreds of miles to be close to an SSPX Chapel to live and worship in a true and authentic Catholic way. We use the word, “Traditional” to distinguish ourselves from the Novus Ordo who has hijacked our faith, or at lest the buildings. If the SSPX were ever to Sell-Out, I for one would once again move. Right now, the SSPX is our best chance for a return to Tradition. May God continue to bless them…

[qvoprimum]

THE SSPX KIDS MAY AS WELL take the 1st prize. That is called CHEATING.

[Oblationem]

@qvoprimum

The SSPX children wouldn’t necessarily take First Place, and none of the children would cheat.

[qvoprimum]

@Oblationem I meant that they uninvited them, so they could not take 1st prize. And that is called cheating.

[Oblationem]

@qvoprimum

Oh! Okay now I get it, but still the SSPX kids didn't always take first place. The problem isn't with 'any' of the kids; it's with the so-called adults in charge of the Roman Catholic Challenge and the Archbishop of Portland, Oregon. One has to ask, how could the Archbishop uninvite the children? I suppose it's a way of getting even for something else? Way to go Archbishop, that's the spirit...

[Search4diabetescure]

Only Catholics and Orthodox are Christians. Protestants ARE NOT Christians.

I didn't make this decision.

The Holy Church through so many Popes made this pronouncement.

France is now firmly in the hands of satan the evil animals.

Rome and the Pope - although valid Popes - are FIRMLY in the hands of satan.

[HomeSkillet489]

@Search4diabetescure Orthodox and Protestants are Christians by faith, but not Christians by discipleship. Only Catholics are Christians by both faith and discipleship. You must be a Christian by both Discipleship and faith to go to Heaven.

[HomeSkillet489]

@Search4diabetescure Look at it this way. Catholics are sheep that are in the flock of the Sheperd and the follow Him wherever He goes. The Orthodox follow the sheep but are outside the flock of the Sheperd. The Protestants are sheep who claim they follow the Sheperd, but are far from Him and are scattered and divided against themselves. Other religions (non-Christian) are wolves whom many of them seek to destroy the flock of the Good Sheperd.

[GottmitunsAlex]

God help us.

May God bless the SSPX.

[HomeSkillet489]

It's a shame that this Archbishop has not forgiven the SSPX (I am not a member of the SSPX at all by any means) and yet, he'll gladly get in bed with Muslims, he'll gladly shake hands with Protestants, and he won't even dare to hesitate on having a tea party with Jews, Atheists, and other non-Christian religions and yet he's too stubborn to accept/forgive his own Catholic counterpart?!?!?!?!?!?! Hypocrisy at it's best my friends! :(

This man has a serious problem

[CatholicTraditional]

Maybe a right answer (e.g. What is the Mass?, A sacrifice) may be wrong (a meal). What a shame.

[joewhlm]

The thing that makes this particular persecution from the Archbishop of importance is that it is not coming from some sort of wacko protestant sect...it is coming from the very organization that should be supporting SSPX.

[BroMikeey]

the Archbishop is being unfair to the kids whom, i am certain, worked hard for the challegne...

[SummaTheologica]

Its incredible..where I come from, the local diocesan Church will rent out rooms and retreat property to protestants and non-Christians, but the Society will have difficulty in doing so. And we have a very false ecumenical spirit here, mind you.

[Eltsacwenify]

Persecution of the faith has been around since biblical times and will continue to till the end of the world.