Christopher Hitchens: The Moral Necessity of Atheism (8/8)

[Goose068]

What a great speaker and humanist. I will greatly miss his voice and character.

[ncoop004]

Well, love him or hate him, only Hitchens himself knows whether he was wrong.

[iliveon]

@ncoop004 pretty sure his brain comprised what is called the soul.

[CelestialEmbodiment]

Women's magazine hack Christ' Hitchens promotes: fiat currency, central banking, standing armies, internationalism, governmentalism, Marxism, collectivism, corporatism, false-flag attacks, the institutionalization of folks who promote Spiritualism (as these people are psychotic), internal checkpoints, suspension of the 4th & 5th amendments to the U.S. Constitution, pre-emptive airstrikes, U.N. show-trials, eugenics (population reduction) & carbon taxes.

[Defhrone]

Hurray for Holland, for being mainly Atheist and also the most tolerant people around (just about)

Who needs biblical morals if Atheists can have good standards like them (us ^^)

[Jotto999]

We need to cure cancer. That it will likely steal Hitchens from the world is outrageous and saddening.

[SouthLbkMade]

@Jotto999 I agree. There isn't much in the world that saddens me like the thought of a world without the Hitch... Hitchens would hate the cliche, but truly there is no one to fill his shoes. We will miss him, but he will not disappear- he was prolific and as you well know made many, many public appearances that we can hear and watch forever. Still I, like you, wish for a miracle cure.

[richisancheti1]

Thanks dude!

[chefforrest]

Great lecture. Thanks.

[FrankinHolland]

I could listen to Hitchens all day.

[eddiextorres]

Thanks for the upload. But I think Homer said it more succinctly - "Could Jesus microwave a burrito so hot that He Himself could not eat it."

[Makonu2]

Listening to Christopher Hitchens speak is like a breath of fresh air. He suavely conveys his points on this topic with intelligence and charm. It's as if he was taking all of my thoughts on the matter which are using racing through my head frantically - often making it difficult for me to convey my own points during a lecture with calm and ease - and arranging them neatly like books on a bookshelf. I agree with him and find his experience to be totally enlightening to frank.

[Kentarules2]

"Yes I would actually" lol

[runningfrog43]

hitchens always struck me as a british version of a cross between the lead singer of bad religion (his name escapes me) and eric cartmen, lol. random.

[cqtms]

i believe many times other than here the Hitch refers to himself as an Anti_Theist

[manologameface]

I resent the word atheism. The word "Atheism" gives balance to "theism". There being atheist gives footing to theism much like a sport-there cannot be a game without an opposing team, thus, giving reason for theist to grab a bible and search for an opposing passage to negate evidence. People are scared to share themselves and also scared to be alone giving rise for the need of god to fill that void. Considering the preceding fact, sometimes evidence is not enough making the cave sanctuary.

[dojohansen123]

How naïve! While there may be some tiny point to make with an analogy to teams playing sports, I'd say the differences are far greater than the similarities.

People are prone to superstition, but only more so when their beliefs aren't subjected to critical examination.

As for resenting the word atheism:  Theism is of course real, as is atheism (or non-theism if you want). It's only sensible for words describomg related concepts to be lexicographically and phonetically related as well.

[tuxguys]

Time well spent. (Time listening to Hitchens solo, or in tandem with others, always is.)  And, if I may presume, sans irony: God bless you for posting this in its entirety.

[GSpotter63]

There are ways of living in this world that are favorable to the continued existence, expansion, and progress of the human race. And there are ways of living that are detrimental to this end. Religions, over time have discovered and separated the productive (GOOD) from the detrimental (EVIL). Despite making the connection between the action and the consequence, mistakes have been made as to the methodology of the mechanism. I.E. (God is punishing me with VD for doing something bad).

[GSpotter63]

This stems from the limited amount of specific information about the mechanism ( I.E. Syphilis is the result of the introduction of a microscopic organism into one host from another host by way of intimate contact.) and not punishment dealt out by god for that intimate contact. Hens the believe that god does not like random intimate contact is perpetuated.

[GSpotter63]

But if we choose to ignore the lessons learned from thousands of years of religious trial and error, we are doomed to suffer the consequence.

[ciroth22]

Hens believe what???

[PSandCo]

The problem with your line of reasoning is that Religions actually have done a remarkably poor job separating productive and detrimental behaviors, as you've called them. If you look at the majority of what religion says is EVIL, it is entirely arbitrary and has more to do with political power than it does with any rational sense of self perpetuation.

What you've said sounds entirely great, if your main assumption was actually true. The catch -- It isn't.

[ciroth22]

@PSandCo I was just asking about the hens

a year goes by and still no answer

[jamyfromfin]

Just too bad that holland is beeing raped by islamic morons.

Muslim morons here danced on the street when the twin towers fell and if u say something about it then ur likely to get knifed in the back by them.

[imadamjad1]

i USED to be a muslim

and i agree with you

MUSLIMS ARE MORONS!!!!!

[lexaling]

@imadamjad1 What enabled you to break free of religion?

[imadamjad1]

@lexaling Well really it was just realising HOW MANY lies had to be told in succession for religion to work, and that when I looked at my family, deep down I knew that they knew that religion was bullshit, yet they still continued to lie to themselves. Its just pure irritating.

[lexaling]

@imadamjad1 I commend you. I hope your family has been understanding and kind.

[imadamjad1]

@lexaling hmmm moderately....lol

[mtheoryrules]

Thanks for sharing piro, your effort is appreciated.

[Dorfkanal]

Thanks for uploading. Rather then forcing children to attend religion classes in school (this should be made illegal under punishment), clear minds like Hitchens should be invited and have a talk with them.

[x4812k]

it's a pleasure to listen to hitchens. i certainly agree with the thesis of this lecture, but I have a problem with one of his Q and A responses. he has clearly not given ayn rand enough thought. selfishness, as rand defines it, is NOT the common acceptance of the term. she re-defines the word, and criticizes the belief that self-sacrifice and "selfishness" are virtuous traits. but i do grant hitchens the fact that rand's writing is god awful.

[meiitbe]

would you be so kind as to relay some of her philosophy? i have tried to digest it, but (it could be a failure of my imagination) it all seems like common sense to me. Maybe I am a born Randian? Who knows.

[SuperboyConnerKent]

that's it, I'm going to Holland

[LordEsel88]

Don't forget to visit scandinavia too, it's like Holland in that regard but less crowded. :P

[SuperboyConnerKent]

are you shitting me? the best women in the world are in the Scandinavian Peninsula. can't wait to go there

[deeliciousplum]

Hmmm...at 1st, I had some easy, challengable hunches about Christopher, yet I do feel fortunate to have watched all 8 of these vids to acquire a grasp on his views. His view of being enslaved to a god figure is unique, in my opinion. Well, I'm sure some of you may dig up lots on this, but in the way that he spells it out, there are some very pondering points on being as like a surf to this entity. Hmmm, food for thought. Of course, lots of thought of his other points, too.

[chokladkopp]

Just goes to show that hitchens doesn´t even bother to define morals or ethics but manages through charm and truncheon-rhetoric take the role as the piper leading people to abandon critical reason just because he´s bashing theists, thus reinforcing the ignorance of the masses since NOBODY demands to hear him define morals, and especially atheist morals. So they become the pathetic sycophants they despise among the theists. Horrible ... absolutley horrendous!

[beebobox]

pretty sure we all know what real morals are, you also have something called religious morals.

which aren't very moral, just people like you who think this is so.

ps

there is a negative correlation between intelligence and education on one part and you being religious on the other.

and those on the right side of the fence dont find this the least bit shocking.

[chokladkopp]

Then, please, sir! Indulge me as to extrapolate on what you claim to be self-evident: What is "real" morals?

ps. By dividing intelligence and education from religion you´ve only succeeded in divulging your own intellectual limits.

[beebobox]

could you first, before i answer you, explain to me by what you mean by Atheist morals. and ps. you just used beautiful language as you said "lol no, you're stupid" it wont fly, you have to back up things with evidence, you're religious i'm sure and so i'm guessing that's nothing you consider to be of importance, but i'll start and you can follow suit. Thomas Howells, 1927 Hilding Carlsojn, 1933 Abraham Franzblau, 1934 Norman Poythress, 1975 Wiebe and Fleck, 1980 awaiting your reply.

[chokladkopp]

There´s no such thing as universal morals, contrary to what mr. Hitchens claims. All morals are particular and dependent on for example culture, time, questions, answers, defenitions and so on. Atheist morals is determined by its own adjective, as is every other moral system whether it´s christian, hindu, jewish, existential, humanist, midieval etc.

ps. "evidence" is imporatant so let me ask you: Who are these guys? I didn´t find evidence regarding their utter existence let alone their works

[empbac]

I think some morals are derived from culture, but I also think that some are based on logical analysis and can be figured out by just about anyone. For example, it's wrong to murder. I think unjustified killing has always been thought to be immoral by all societies, as it disrupts the fluidity and structure of the community.

[soundofgeek]

Personally, I've sidestepped the whole mess and explicitly constructed my own axiomatic moral framework. Surprisingly, I discovered that I only needed one axiom: "try not to cause harm". Every worthwhile moral rests securely on that one axiom.

It had never occurred to me to call this framework "atheist morality" - if we must saddle it with a determining label, I choose instead "humanist morality".

[johnclavis]

Usually, "Are you an atheist?" comes along with "Do you believe in God?", which is a very narrow-minded question for people to even ask, because it suggests that all other gods can be immediately discounted as unnecessary of any consideration, while there's an implicit 50-50 chance that Jehovah, the Abrahamic god -- more specifically, the triune one with the God/alter-ego Jesus and the ineffable Holy Spirit -- exists precisely as described by your average Christian. What could be more absurd?

[johnclavis]

There are universals for human beings (leaving aside damaged humans for the moment) because human beings share a set of contingencies: we share a set of DNA that informs the development of our brains. 18-month-old kids will spontaneously move to comfort someone who looks sad. The maternal instinct exists in all mammals. Chimps will try to save a drowning fellow chimp and will get pissed if you distribute food unevenly. It's built-in. The thing is...

[johnclavis]

we tend to categorize people as "other", and that allows us to treat the "other" as lesser beings. You can think of it as a set of concentric emotional circles; you're in the center, your wife & kids are in the next circle out, your best friends are in the next one & so forth. The further out you go, the less love or compassion you have for them. All you have to do is put a set of people out past the outer circle & they become "other". Now you can do whatever you want to them: slaves, rape, etc.

[ABAisSCIENCE]

Chokladkopp,

You are correct, in a way. Morals by definition require judgement of others which is the behavior of 1 individual.

Another individual judges differently.

To speak in terms of judgement or morals is to speak in terms of 1 over another & the USA does not approve of such logic though we do vote in a President every 4 yrs.

Many say that there is 1 God. If there is 1 God then the message must be 1.

It would boil down to Psalms 51:17 requiring merely self-knowledge.

[whitespideralex]

Are you serious about asking for evidence, or you are just another close-minded religous fervent? If you are, you better believe that ignorance can be a blessing, 'cause you are so full of it.

[FarSideofTown]

Truncheon rhetoric?, abandon critical reason?, .... and bashing theists?...... What the hell kind of drugs are you on man?

[chokladkopp]

Wow! That lecture totally sucked! Hitchens did not even once try to define atheist morals or even morals forthat matter thus failing to explain the title of this lecture: The moral necessity of atheism. If it would contain an ounze of intellectual decency it should rightly be called "The unnecessary morals of fundamentalist and other branches of religion". I´m so sick and tired of people groveling for this would be intellectual letting their critical guard down just because he reinforces u.

[DaftAida]

People who were not browbeaten into religeous Be-Lie-fs are so fortunate in having the opportunity to think clearly.

[arshsingh1984]

great lecture

thanks for sharing!

[meNiMONSTERs]

i love this guy he doesn't give religion an inch which it shouldn't get one

its just cause unnecessary division of people that brings hate

[lalaparousia]

How ironic ---- an atheist named Christopher.

[Spalg]

quite like the jew named Christian, eh?

[optifog]

Nothing beats CapnOawesome's atheist friend 'Mohummad Islam' ;-)

[TheMorbidAtheist]

lol optifog

I remember that one

[whirlpoolzend]

Brilliant...I'm off to find some more.

[beev7]

great. perfect.

[limpnail]

Wonderful series. Thanks

[kat1989]

i think the concept of a meme doesn't quite fit with these universall themes of human nature, its more than just fashions in thought that carry and spread, its something innate that will eventually (if we are not wiped out by the parties of god) assert itself, thats the thought that keeps me going anyway :)

[kat1989]

excellent, love him almost as much as i love his argument...it's this iconical, celebrity, god-head culture thats inescapable.....f-ch

f-ch! down, worshipful tendancies, down! :)

[CalculonsProcessor]

good point wikimedian, but most likely they invited him to speak. Not that he would really be against attempting to spread anti-theism.

[Wikimedian]

"We don't proselytize"? Isn't that what he's doing?

[falsificationism]

I'm surprised you can't tell the difference between proselytization and the encouragement of reason.

Proselytizers attempt to impose and persuade.

Hitchens is putting forth an argument and begging us to come up with a better one. It's the same thing scientists do when they publish.

Putting forth an argument is NOT proselytization.

Proselytization entails sophistic persuasion, pandering, and often a form of quid pro quo.

[Wikimedian]

I disagree. You are putting forth the worst form of proselytization, and for that reason, I presume you have only experienced the most unsophisticated form of religion.

Many religious proselytizers encourage their interlocutors to use reason, and by that way, to reach the religious truths they are preaching. Certainly, many religious proselytizers resort to less admirable strategies; but so do many atheists who try to persuade people to their side.

[falsificationism]

True. In fact it just happened to me tonight. I went to a youth group with one of my friends and they said over and over that you must use a combination of your head and your heart in order to find truth in the gospel...

Look closely though...this is PERSUASION. A false appeal to the intellect (usually via common sensical notions about reality). Hence my use of the term SOPHISTIC persuasion.

My argument stands.

[Wikimedian]

I'm not sure I get your point. But if you listen carefully to Hitchens, he presents a degraded form of religion, rather than presenting it even-handedly. So I would say that is sophistic persuasion.

[falsificationism]

How so?

Degraded?

[Wikimedian]

If we are to draw a meaningful distinction between reasoned persuasion and "deceptive" persuasion, then the main difference is how "objectively" one presents the other side.

I've listened to many of Hitchens speeches and read two of his books on religion; and he presents the very worst of religion. It seems similar, to me, to the way in which religious people might present the less appealing parts of atheism, rather than discussing the liberating and intellectual aspects of atheism.

[falsificationism]

I think I agree with that actually. He does present the unpleasant aspects of the thing he's trying to argue against. I guess he would say that there are no real 'unpleasant' parts of being an atheist just as there are no 'unpleasant' parts of not believing in astrology...or something like that. He'd further draw a distinction between the evil things done in the name of religion...and beg us to come up with one evil thing done in the name of atheism.

I do agree, but I think that's what he'd say

[beebobox]

the worst of religion is the parts he's discussing for the most part.

the best parts of religion is something anyone can do be they religious or not, charity work. love for others, unity , solidarity , keeping a moral character etc.

you dont need religion for those things, yet those are the thing religious people boast about the most when it comes to the benefits of religion.

[Wikimedian]

In theory, any human being can do any good or evil act! Hitchens seems proud of that point. The question is, does religion or atheism promote good or evil acts. And I would say religious creates an environment that promotes goodness, overall. There are many exceptions, but generally, this seems to be the case.

[FaithIsImaginary]

"And I would say religious creates an environment that promotes goodness, overall. There are many exceptions, but generally, this seems to be the case."

The main problem with this is that in many cases "goodness" is hard to distinguish from evil. Say, for example, the Christian missionaries in africa actively working against sex education and condom use - making them directly responsible for the deaths of millions of africans to AIDS.

Yet, they are advocating "good" christian morals.

[FaithIsImaginary]

When you believe your morals are handed down from God you simply lose the ability to make practical choices.

This is extremly serious because of the point Hitchens raises about the theists guaranteed inability to know what they claim they can know. Theists are simply doomed to commit evil in their pursuit of good.

[Makonu2]

Just thought I should personally compliment you on your reply. It was very well thought out and your point was conveyed in an impressively short amount of text. I'm actually kind of jealous... I probably would've had to respond with a rant equivalent to a 5000 word essay to say what I needed to say. Can I get you to follow me around and respond what I'm thinking on every video I view? =P

[Wikimedian]

(Sorry for the grammar error) Well that's an interesting example, but would you say that the areas these missionaries visit are better off without them? Religious people often approach issues with a non-humanitarian (e.g. immediate suffering) philosophy, focusing too much on moral ideals and not on pressing realities (e.g. aids). However, so I wouldn't condone this, but I also wouldn't condone a philosophy that encourages sexual promiscuity. Society (or missionaries) can't legislate morality.

[Masenko]

Thanks for all these great videos!

[angrymallard]

I really enjoyed this one - speaking alone and lecturing is certainly one of mr. Hitchens' strong points, and I much prefer listening him this way.

In discussions with others he comes trough a bit impatient and rude simply because of the amount of time that he speaks simultaneously with people.

[cypherphage]

great videos...its to bad I never get to hear great speakers like hitchens and dawkins my self.

[irishmauddib]

MAybe some day, their websites usually do give their tour schedule, so keep an eye out.

[ViolentReign]

Likewise, thank you PiroNiro for these 8-part collections.

[dookdawg214]

Thanks for posting these videos. The more stuff like this up on the Web, the more access to free-thinking media for the common man. The Internet is the Guettenberg press of the 21st century and we all have a chance to be William Tyndales -- except we can finish off the job on which the Protestant Reformation only advanced half-way.

[Antichrist4Life]

Thank you so much for posting all of this, Piro.

[PiroNiro]

Hey, no problem. :)

[prffsrx]

ATHEISTS DO NOT EXIST. They are the epitome of superstitous as they have great faith in chemical chance and mutational luck. By arrogantly rejecting and avoiding that uncaused transcendent intelligent God whom they already know subsists, they have unwittingly labeled themselves an ignoramus (agnostic).

[pocoapoco2]

That sounds like a desperate attempt to validate a religion that you've held to be truth for a very long time. It's always hard to accept an alternative from what you've been told as truth for a lifetime.

[j9911761]

I have never read anything with so many strung together words in such a creative way to say nothing at all.....

[ViolentReign]

j9911761,

Funnily enough, that's exactly how I feel about religion and all that it teaches...about nothing...

[1970kyre]

hmmm,...you might want to look up the word "subsists" in the dictionary. the image of God subsisting is, however, positively hilarious.

[yaakhee]

thank you very much for putting this lecture up i enjoyed it immensely.

[PiroNiro]

That puts a smile on my face. :) Thanks for your comments.

[johnclavis]

"Religion" wasn't originally religion. It was mysticism, which is an innate tendency. Children often attribute consciousness to their toys. We've all felt "lucky" at some point in our lives. Early humans had witches or shamans who were deferred to as the experts on these unseen forces. When the first civilizations began, the rulers co-opted the shamans, magic became politic, and ritual became dogma. A natural phenomenon of the human mind became exploited as a tool for control. Fight the power!

[getchi]

Now how can you claim religion was not designed to control, when you then say its used to explain the unknown - to control teh chaos.

religion is all about control, wather its progressive or destructive is not at issue.

If you mean religion wasnt designed specifically to keep a gulible public malleable for ruling elite, i say study the shamans.

The answer is half way betwee.....

[sun2515]

thanks PiroNiro, great VID!

Hitchens rocks!!

[TheGodOfIsaac]

This is blasphemy.

[Elasaltaculos]

only if you are a believer.

[rebby11]

...and I love it!

[irishmauddib]

And long may it continue.

[pocoapoco2]

I don't agree with the notion that religion was born out of a desire for control although I don't think Hitchens really means that. I think it was born out of an inate desire or psychological need of the human species to have answers to things...everything. It later evolved into a measure for control once it was discovered that it could be used for such.

[NegativeProof]

Indeed you are right. Hitchens has stated before that he believes religion was born primarily as a means to explain the unexplainable, and as a response to the fear of death. However, it is a bit refreshing to me, personally, to hear him address this, as my first athiest view on the bible was to see it as a means of control, an early form of "government empowerment", if you will.

[pocoapoco2]

There's a good google video called "who wrote the bible" which was made by a christian. The film actually reveals the motives for the content of the bible quite well with plenty of facts and historical references. If you've seen it already, what did you think of it?

[Aaron518]

I just watched it and I found the last few moments quite interesting. First when Richard Land said he believes the Bible is the word of God until proven its not,then when confronted with reasons why it could not be he just says they are "Rubbish" and "Dangerous".I also think the host coped out in the end by basically saying despite all his evidence that he found and listed,that you just have to have faith anyways cause his mom taught him that.Unbelievable.

[pocoapoco2]

I felt the same way about it. It really shows people in general are not willing or even able to overcome beliefs that have been in place since childhood. Maybe that's so because they are the first ideals that are learned. Even so, it didn't ruin the video for me at all as the author's own opinion and spin on things doesn't really change the information presented earlier.

[Elasaltaculos]

yeah, I agree with that. I think it was born as a way to answer many unanswerable questions, and once it's "prophets" saw the amount of power that faith commanded over the masses, they used it to rally troops and keep order, etc.

[pocoapoco2]

The way I see it, the intent of control was never deliberate. It just sort of happened that way out of chance more than anthing else. That's my oh-pinion, of course.

[DaveyH123]

Your a bit of a knob arent you.

[aLifeLessMagical]

thanks for posting.

[FreeThinking76]

so glad i watched all of this

i gave every part 5 stars :)

★★★★★

Amazing :) :) :)

[LOGICISGOD]

"He did say he doesnt want to die.", Oh, well good, thank you for that. I don't think my life could ever become boring, if it does, their is always sex, which never bores me. Note, I would not like to turn into a freeky-transhumanism-obi1kanob­i thingy though, to achieve immortally, only in such a case i would rather die.

[Ender1zero1]

What an enjoyable way to spend a Sunday afternoon thank you so much for uploading this.

[DeletedDelusion]

PiroNiro, thank you for putting this awesome videos up.

[jasonhoblin]

awesome.

[WizardJim]

Dayamn does Hitchens rock, cheers for this PiroNiro.

[LOGICISGOD]

One thing strange about this guy, is that he claims that he does not want to exist after death, why is this? Why not rather say that he would not like to die, but if he does, heaven does not sound that nice a place to go to?

[WizardJim]

Probably because he, like I, finds the idea of perpetual existance in whatever form absolutely horrifying. The sheer, utter pointlessnes of a never-ending life would be awful to me. A LONG life, fair enough, but an eternal one? No, oblivion would be better. Good question though, thumbs up.

[pdoeman]

He's explained his opinion of heaven in many lectures. Biblical accounts of heaven refer to eternal praising of god, similar to the situation in north Korea wherethe DearLeader is worshipped all day, everyday.

He did say he doesnt want to die.