O my god.This from my country Slovenia...I cannot believe we can still find these videos on internet.Laibach was a group that was faking all their songs in time of Yugoslavia and comunismus.I am shocked realy comunists were killing our people and hiding the corps in the caves they were slaughtering people who were rich and were going to church.I am only 15 and i am shocked.Those people were making jokes of grop Opus and changed their song in some nazi stuff-but they were supporting comunism!!!!!
@malopert It's not comunismus that robbed Yugoslavia and mass-murdered people, it's Nazism and its collaborators the ustacze, and in the '90s Al Qaida.
What's wrong with killed ultra-rich parasites, when it's these people who send the people to war, suck them dry through exploitation, destroys their lives?
NATO is a system of lies and gangsterism... wake the fuck up, or soon Goldman Sachs will own your young little butt as well, not just your "country".
Not so on PoFo, has vast amounts of people to disagree with on. Because, while it has a Fascism section, it also has Conservatism, Liberalism, Socialism, Communism, Libertarianism and "other".
Well let me put it this way, while i am tempted to bring absurd ammounts of ideology into this what this really comes down to is a debate about art in politics; look how forms of modern art were endorsed by totaliarian regimes in spain, portugal, Italy, the early Soviet Union and nominally Germany, (also worthy of note are fascist movements in britain and france which also endorsed modernism; see wyndham lewis) often welding themselves to the political ideology.
What new forms of art, exactly of the character of Laibach Kunst are saying is; we want something new, we have been through something horrible and we are not just going to let the old men carry on like they have before, we need something powerful and vitalist. This is spiritually what fascism was. Because words and language structures change, the words change outside the ideology, so laibach can disown fascism because fascism is no longer fascism but the ideas remain the same.
By the way if you want to see what fascism is like whan construed as marxism look at 'revolution, how to do it in modern society' by Kai Murros, a national socialist who in his own words writes marxist books.
Well there you go then, not that I endorse either of these complete nutters of course. Racial bolshvism seems to be suprisingly popular and seems to have an undertone in most of russia's 'far right' parties.
I find it interesting because the words are not their own, their directly quoting the Comintern's definition of Fascism (which, as we all know, included the Labour Party, Social Democrats and Roosevelt). I think of it as the Fascist definition of Fascism, as it denounces Fascism in a Fascist style (International Finance is behind it, Decadent Capitalism is failing etc.). It is the most popular with leftists and extremists who want to distance themselves from Fascism.
Funny thing is, is most people who use that definition don't know it was Soviet Propaganda. It's amazing how much of the more subtle aspects of Soviet Propaganda are parroted by youtube conspiracy theorists. Take "Zionism is Nazism", "Kennedy was killed by the CIA", "American Big Business created Hitler" and "the west is run by Masons". All bloody Pravda material.
It should be remembered that it wasn't just modernism which totalitarianism endorsed. Mussolini said that he had no place in deciding what kind of art Italy should have, and while Futurism was popular it was gradually elbowed out out by Nazi ideas of degenerate and "healthy" art (boring propaganda realism). The same happened in the Soviet Union with the avant-garde being replaced by "socialist realism".
A.K Chesterton was more of an old guard anti democrat reactionary, even by the standards of reactionaries within the BUF who even then were highly inventive (eg Jorian Jenks). He was not really a proper fascist in the existential sense. Vortacism, britains only home grown modernist movement was anchored to fascism through Wyndham Lewis, who came at the movement from the direction of his own ideas about life.
Don't forget Erza Pound, he was a Vortacist and contributed regularly to Mosley's highbrow publications. Mosley was more rationalistic and technology minded than most Fascists (a bit Marxist, even) he admired HG Wells and thought that Fascism's economic aspect was more important than the spiritual one. A.K Chesterton respects the opposite number, he thought the spiritual artistic aspect came first, despised Wells and said "capitalism has already solved the problems of production".
Oh i certainly did not forget about Pound, I just couldn't see the point in venting. Wyndham Lewis I thought was was actually a slightly better example as he was a writer also who explained his ideas which has actually earnt him a more isolated position even than Pound. He too wrote for BUF quarterly, wrote anti war panthlets, and was reasonably intimately associated with Mosley.
Lewis was an ultra nietzschian in his view and beliving the artist was the overman decending from the mountains and should lead and form the society according to their vision in a system that was hierachical and authoritarian. Despite his sucess he struggled with poverty most of his life. He was also a great pre fascist thinker who through the study of various proto fascist movements (eg Charles maurrus/ation francais) predicted that in the future we would have a left wing capitalist society.
needless to say people thought he was mad, but he was well ahead of his time, and in artistic and existantial terms not to dissimilar to Oswald Mosley who like lewis wanted a 'brave new world'. The left has only been retrospectivly awarded the mantle of the progressive, at this time the left shunned such ideas as they do today and only advanced elements of it to attack down reactionary opinion.
If i could offer an insight into seeing the ideological complicatedness of ideology. I think that one has to see behind the policies of a party and see the energy behind it; Soviet socialism, Fascism, National Socialsm, totalitarianismm all these ideologies intregue you in part because they posess an energy regardless of their politics; a vitalist and powerful outlook to arrest prevailing weakness and decline with a programme of the most radical kind. Fascism perhaps the purest form of this?
I think of Fascism as ideology for the sake of ideology itself, created because Mussolini thought that's how the world worked. NS and Communism are different, because they pretend to reasonable and rationalistic and have grand visions of a passive future, whereas the Doctrines of Fascism said "We don't believe in world peace, and Fascism is the product of the times".
If fascism was merely an ideology for the sake of itself, then why did its characteristics, ideas and movements manifest from virtually every nation in Europe, and was the only movement which at least attempted to be relative. National socialism was a political religion based on reactionary ideas and psuedo science, and communism was built on an untruth. And what do you mean by a passive future? communism and nazism incarnate struggle, class struggle race struggle regardless of national boundry
Well, a thousand year Reich suggests a degree of extremely unusual social stability and Communism aims for the end of history. Fascism, on the other hand (by which I mean Italian Fascism) was based upon a premise of war being as important in human development as child birth, an idea now entirely ridiculous due to almost total alienation of the kind of heroic close combat which Ernest Junger so admired.
that was but one tiny aspect of italian fascism, and may I add a totally legitimate and misunderstood one. What 'war is to men what women is to childbirth' (not as badly misquoted as you) is the affirmation of masculine values; one of which is self control and the ability to ventilate power when neccisary. Violence must have purpose, it mus not be senseless, and what violence is more spiritually penetrating than that of a war?
A tiny aspect? It was one of the most successful promises Mussolini made! He didn't create a corporate state, raise the birth rate or make Italy a great power. But boy he got a war! A miserable pathetic haul through defeat after defeat while the Germans put their boots firmly onto Northern Italy. You know, they arrested all the father's they could in order to force young men to volunteer as slave labourers in Germany or become conscripts?
The war obviously has to have purpose otherwise it is just senseless killing. In the case of Italy practice fell short of the theory and italy engaged in a disasterous war; mussolini took a gamble to secure Italy as a great mediterranian power on the basis of what he percived her destiny without taking into account his abilities and the realities of the situation. At some point he got it into his head that his nations destiny was intertwined with germany and put italy's Interests second.
Was britain's approach to war any really less different; in our ideology we believed we were selflessly fighting for the good of europe and what we were doing was right, we were fighting for our destiny and the destiny of our empire aginst foreign agressors who were alien to our europe. This exactly how the Italians viewed their side of the war as well, though it was put in broad terms. Arguably we gave the most and lost even more out of the war than any other power, so were we fascist?
No, war pre-dates Fascism. However, one shouldn't misjudge the importance of violence in Fascism, especially with the Squadirsti, the Falange ("Long Live Death!") the Iron Guard and the SA. Mosley thought of Fascism in unabashedly violent terms, the far left was attacking NUPA meetings, that "forces us to be Fascist" he said. Social Democracy would be taken over by Communism and Conservatism would give way to Fascism in a civil war or revolution, thank god it didn't.
Fascism is an viewpoint which encompasses many values that predate it, going all the the way to the birth of nationalism. Read Henry V by shakespere and you sill see what is meant by the spiritual value of a war, written at the dawn of empire, but without that element it is wrong. Mosley was against violence and fought against war and violence his whole politcal career, from the black and tans, WW2, to creating a neutral europen bloc outside the sphere of american and soviet imperialism.
If you read his auto-biography 'my life' you would see just how deeply he felt about violence. His decision to form a mock blackshirt army was after his speakers were attacked by violent thugs during the new party so he had to create stewards. Nothing that sinister, I dont think he was planning on a revolution with newspaper vendors and a couple of east end boxers do you? he was certainly less violent than the british fascisti which actually kidnapped people and hijacked trains.
I know, but he wasn't the only one to get a bad time from leftist rowdies. Clement Atlee recounted that often Communists did the same to him. Political violence on that scale was an accepted part of London's political life for centuries, what Mosley did which really set things off was the introduction of uniforms into it. As Orwell notes, British people have been hostile to their own military (as individuals, rather than as an idea) for centuries.
I look back at us in the war and there is so much to be admired in our actions and ideas. Naturally we also commited atrocities, it happens on all sides in all wars even in the falklands both sides shot prisoners, atrocities happen, it is human nature. But when it really comes down to it the fascist approach to war is one of sober stoic restraint.
But vitalism can be imported into any ideology with the right amount of roaring Orators, young members and powerful cultural influence. Otto Strasser said the Kennedy cult was equivalent to Fascism. I fail to see the inherent goodness in vitalism, other than to give the masses excitement and make them more willing to report on each other. Surly Anti-Fa and UAF have a vitalist and powerful outlook?
To define vitalism; the promotion of policies and ideas which will arrest national, social, and economic decline, it is a lose glove yes but it implies that it must be lived up to. So yes to say kennedy was a fascist is about as true as not, ultimately it depends on whether you incarnate the message, or if its just PR lies. Barrack obama to give a more recent example. it is one thing to make an authoritarian claim and quite another to live up to it, otherwise you are as bad as new labour.
I don't suppose you saw Barrack Obama's acceptance speech, i mean with the croud shouthing 'yes we can' ovar again when he paused. Dont tell me you were not thinking what I was thinking XD. Dash I sound like a republican.
As for the UAF, though it is technically possible to have a vitalist form of antifascism which might look something like laibach, the UAF, and other anti fascist groups like it empty utopianists and nihilists who are merely reveling on the decadence in relation to what our society has become and wish to put it further than what it already is. the fact they are backed and endorsed by a declining liberal political elite is testiment to this. Did you know David Cameron is a member of UAF?
Thing is, the Anti-Fa youth with their violent tactics and sweeping worldview would make perfect squadristi if you could get them into nationalism. In fact, this seems to be quite the fashion with Germany's younger National Socialists, the National Bolsheviks and the National Anarchists who shamelessly remix the symbolism of anti-Fascism and Fascism in too one hell of a fashion trend. Notice how Nationalist and leftist stickers use the same motifs?
You mean the red and black flag? i also could not help notice that Kai's non existant party uses the symbol of the social democrats of weimar germany, the three arrows. I am not too fammiliar with antifascists on the continent, but if the ones here are anything to go by then I would have to disagree. I shared a flat with 4 members of UAF, and they are all as wet as goldfish, they dont believe in anything other than empty universal love and would impose it implacably like cretins as a moral good
Perhaps UAF is a bad example, Anti-Fa respects what I'm talking about better. In Germany they are almost identical with young nationalists in terms of music taste, dress sense, symbols and favoured forms of political activity.
as I said I am a little unfamiliar whe it comes to the continent, though I know what you are talking about; both sides wear hoddies and scarves, and listen to awful heavy metal racket, i get you. but as i was saying these are fairly incidental, not to mention neither side probably fully understands its own philosophical and ideological implications. besides parties like the NDP are not proper fascists, they are not even proper national socialists (with the exeption of a few).
My God I was just seing your "discussion" on comments betwen you and DerBliztStag and I just want to say i never saw such a interesiting well founded political and phylosical discusion on youtube like this you two are realy wise.
Wouldn't mind contributing something in the economic area, have been interested lately in the idea of "pension fund democracy" - probably more important than parliamentary democracy. Using this as a vehicle for employee ownership and from there to a Corporative economy.
You should join politics forum, it's easier to debate in a forum designed for debate rather than in the comments section. It has a good section for non-racial fascists.
oh hi. i'm pikachu. stumbled here by accident. The theme of fascist and communist videos with anime characters in the background seemed familiar, but i wasn't sure, then i read the comments down and i'm like, oh i should have known it's tally oh.. lol.
Sure lol. I see you are a fan of Laibach, like myself. Did you see the new versions of the classsic Laibach songs, like Drzava and Brat Moi? Pretty awe-inspiring, I must say. I just watched them yesterday, which is how I stumbled upon here in the first place.
Of course I've seen the new classics, live in London! Got my name down on the list to pre-order. There pretty awesome, especially after the anti-Climax of Volkswagner.
The last time i attended their gig was back in late 2008 i think.. Anyway I rather liked Volkswagner, this for example: watch?v=YrMueetcGHY . You no like?
I just found Volkswagner a bit... anti-climatic, judging from the vids of the live performance here on youtube. It'll probably grow on me when I get the album itself, I often take time to adapt to some of their albums.
Just advancing an idea in a millitant and violent way does not make it vitalist. A vitalist idea has to have an intrisic worth that is philisophically grounded; eg religious fundamentalism or Nietzsche's superman philosophy. All else is nihilism and the abyss. The methodology and the manner of operationalisation of a given group is of no importance in realtion to the ideology, and this is where everyone gets it wrong; comparing fascists to communists to liberals, ect, it is not important.
Well Lenin as well as Stalin hated modern art, but endorsed it beacuse it 'destroys' that which exists before. There is a Nietzschian element to modern art in the sense that leftists like it because it tears down existing values, whist to fascistically minded the destruction is just a means of clearing the way for something newer and greater. The decline of modernism was continent wide as it whittled down and died a semi natural death as Fascism died in the spirit.
It did not age, it became irrelevant because the future such people had hoped for had been stolen from them. The modernist project only failed in the sense that the ideas that underpinned it 'failed' or at least have been pushed to the side in a sense. best to think of them as a future that could have been, that is why it is not in modern art galleries with that other nonsense and quite right so. Modern art, THAT is something that is old, recycling the same ideas because it has nothing new.
This song makes me want to go for a drive in the old Trabant!
AIKevorkian 2 months ago
malopert you don't know a sh.t about that and that times and about Laibach so don't play smart here.
antebajto 2 months ago
O my god.This from my country Slovenia...I cannot believe we can still find these videos on internet.Laibach was a group that was faking all their songs in time of Yugoslavia and comunismus.I am shocked realy comunists were killing our people and hiding the corps in the caves they were slaughtering people who were rich and were going to church.I am only 15 and i am shocked.Those people were making jokes of grop Opus and changed their song in some nazi stuff-but they were supporting comunism!!!!!
malopert 2 months ago
@malopert tough shit get some popcorn.
werre2 1 month ago
@malopert It's not comunismus that robbed Yugoslavia and mass-murdered people, it's Nazism and its collaborators the ustacze, and in the '90s Al Qaida.
What's wrong with killed ultra-rich parasites, when it's these people who send the people to war, suck them dry through exploitation, destroys their lives?
NATO is a system of lies and gangsterism... wake the fuck up, or soon Goldman Sachs will own your young little butt as well, not just your "country".
freeriding666 1 month ago
@freeriding666
blah blah blah....another internet fuckwit teenage poseur......
055697 3 weeks ago
Hmmm... Subtil?
Ingremance 2 months ago
Brutalno.
MrTerminous 2 months ago
Awesome video, great lines and messages.
zeitok8 2 months ago
great video.. thank you for share!
medorach 2 months ago
Laibach!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
medorach 2 months ago
Comment removed
akolekeski 3 months ago
Ah, les jeunesses poutiniennes....
Knut1961 3 months ago
@Knut1961 t'as pas tout compris toi!!!
TheLearningFish 2 months ago
@TheLearningFish ou trop bien...^^
Knut1961 2 months ago
Great video, although you should have used Laibach's own version of the Soviet anthem from "Anthems"!
jbmorgan 6 months ago
Слався отечество!
Мы гордимся тобой!
screamukraine 1 year ago
When I join such forums I always end up forgetting my password- I'm hopeless.
Also, in such forums you're really "preaching to the converted.
Metropolitus 2 years ago
Not so on PoFo, has vast amounts of people to disagree with on. Because, while it has a Fascism section, it also has Conservatism, Liberalism, Socialism, Communism, Libertarianism and "other".
DerBlitzStag 2 years ago
In truth, I've been on there as Francis Drakeleigh.
Metropolitus 2 years ago
who are you on pofo, mr blitz?
Kamikadze888 1 year ago
They are communist that's all, their theory belong to the italian comunism left, AMADEO BORDIGA in primis
plasmavir 2 years ago
No they're not, facism, national-socialism, capitalism, communism are just they're tools of expression.
gombie 2 years ago 25
You are right, this was asking to be made into a mash up.
peppermintjohn666 2 years ago
What do you think of Laibach supporting the Marxist theory of Fascism?
DerBlitzStag 2 years ago
Well let me put it this way, while i am tempted to bring absurd ammounts of ideology into this what this really comes down to is a debate about art in politics; look how forms of modern art were endorsed by totaliarian regimes in spain, portugal, Italy, the early Soviet Union and nominally Germany, (also worthy of note are fascist movements in britain and france which also endorsed modernism; see wyndham lewis) often welding themselves to the political ideology.
peppermintjohn666 2 years ago
What new forms of art, exactly of the character of Laibach Kunst are saying is; we want something new, we have been through something horrible and we are not just going to let the old men carry on like they have before, we need something powerful and vitalist. This is spiritually what fascism was. Because words and language structures change, the words change outside the ideology, so laibach can disown fascism because fascism is no longer fascism but the ideas remain the same.
peppermintjohn666 2 years ago
just my humble opinion thats all
By the way if you want to see what fascism is like whan construed as marxism look at 'revolution, how to do it in modern society' by Kai Murros, a national socialist who in his own words writes marxist books.
peppermintjohn666 2 years ago
I know him, the "most important racial thinker we have today" says that nazbol crazy Hoffmeister of him.
DerBlitzStag 2 years ago
Well there you go then, not that I endorse either of these complete nutters of course. Racial bolshvism seems to be suprisingly popular and seems to have an undertone in most of russia's 'far right' parties.
peppermintjohn666 2 years ago
Comment removed
Metropolitus 2 years ago
I find it interesting because the words are not their own, their directly quoting the Comintern's definition of Fascism (which, as we all know, included the Labour Party, Social Democrats and Roosevelt). I think of it as the Fascist definition of Fascism, as it denounces Fascism in a Fascist style (International Finance is behind it, Decadent Capitalism is failing etc.). It is the most popular with leftists and extremists who want to distance themselves from Fascism.
DerBlitzStag 2 years ago
Separating the egg from the yolk mabye?
peppermintjohn666 2 years ago
Funny thing is, is most people who use that definition don't know it was Soviet Propaganda. It's amazing how much of the more subtle aspects of Soviet Propaganda are parroted by youtube conspiracy theorists. Take "Zionism is Nazism", "Kennedy was killed by the CIA", "American Big Business created Hitler" and "the west is run by Masons". All bloody Pravda material.
DerBlitzStag 2 years ago
It should be remembered that it wasn't just modernism which totalitarianism endorsed. Mussolini said that he had no place in deciding what kind of art Italy should have, and while Futurism was popular it was gradually elbowed out out by Nazi ideas of degenerate and "healthy" art (boring propaganda realism). The same happened in the Soviet Union with the avant-garde being replaced by "socialist realism".
DerBlitzStag 2 years ago
It should also be noted that the BUF views on art where dominated by those of A.K Chesterson, whose version of art history stopped at Shakespeare.
DerBlitzStag 2 years ago
A.K Chesterton was more of an old guard anti democrat reactionary, even by the standards of reactionaries within the BUF who even then were highly inventive (eg Jorian Jenks). He was not really a proper fascist in the existential sense. Vortacism, britains only home grown modernist movement was anchored to fascism through Wyndham Lewis, who came at the movement from the direction of his own ideas about life.
peppermintjohn666 2 years ago
Don't forget Erza Pound, he was a Vortacist and contributed regularly to Mosley's highbrow publications. Mosley was more rationalistic and technology minded than most Fascists (a bit Marxist, even) he admired HG Wells and thought that Fascism's economic aspect was more important than the spiritual one. A.K Chesterton respects the opposite number, he thought the spiritual artistic aspect came first, despised Wells and said "capitalism has already solved the problems of production".
DerBlitzStag 2 years ago
Oh i certainly did not forget about Pound, I just couldn't see the point in venting. Wyndham Lewis I thought was was actually a slightly better example as he was a writer also who explained his ideas which has actually earnt him a more isolated position even than Pound. He too wrote for BUF quarterly, wrote anti war panthlets, and was reasonably intimately associated with Mosley.
peppermintjohn666 2 years ago
Lewis was an ultra nietzschian in his view and beliving the artist was the overman decending from the mountains and should lead and form the society according to their vision in a system that was hierachical and authoritarian. Despite his sucess he struggled with poverty most of his life. He was also a great pre fascist thinker who through the study of various proto fascist movements (eg Charles maurrus/ation francais) predicted that in the future we would have a left wing capitalist society.
peppermintjohn666 2 years ago
needless to say people thought he was mad, but he was well ahead of his time, and in artistic and existantial terms not to dissimilar to Oswald Mosley who like lewis wanted a 'brave new world'. The left has only been retrospectivly awarded the mantle of the progressive, at this time the left shunned such ideas as they do today and only advanced elements of it to attack down reactionary opinion.
peppermintjohn666 2 years ago
If i could offer an insight into seeing the ideological complicatedness of ideology. I think that one has to see behind the policies of a party and see the energy behind it; Soviet socialism, Fascism, National Socialsm, totalitarianismm all these ideologies intregue you in part because they posess an energy regardless of their politics; a vitalist and powerful outlook to arrest prevailing weakness and decline with a programme of the most radical kind. Fascism perhaps the purest form of this?
peppermintjohn666 2 years ago
I think of Fascism as ideology for the sake of ideology itself, created because Mussolini thought that's how the world worked. NS and Communism are different, because they pretend to reasonable and rationalistic and have grand visions of a passive future, whereas the Doctrines of Fascism said "We don't believe in world peace, and Fascism is the product of the times".
DerBlitzStag 2 years ago
If fascism was merely an ideology for the sake of itself, then why did its characteristics, ideas and movements manifest from virtually every nation in Europe, and was the only movement which at least attempted to be relative. National socialism was a political religion based on reactionary ideas and psuedo science, and communism was built on an untruth. And what do you mean by a passive future? communism and nazism incarnate struggle, class struggle race struggle regardless of national boundry
peppermintjohn666 2 years ago
Well, a thousand year Reich suggests a degree of extremely unusual social stability and Communism aims for the end of history. Fascism, on the other hand (by which I mean Italian Fascism) was based upon a premise of war being as important in human development as child birth, an idea now entirely ridiculous due to almost total alienation of the kind of heroic close combat which Ernest Junger so admired.
DerBlitzStag 2 years ago
that was but one tiny aspect of italian fascism, and may I add a totally legitimate and misunderstood one. What 'war is to men what women is to childbirth' (not as badly misquoted as you) is the affirmation of masculine values; one of which is self control and the ability to ventilate power when neccisary. Violence must have purpose, it mus not be senseless, and what violence is more spiritually penetrating than that of a war?
peppermintjohn666 2 years ago
A tiny aspect? It was one of the most successful promises Mussolini made! He didn't create a corporate state, raise the birth rate or make Italy a great power. But boy he got a war! A miserable pathetic haul through defeat after defeat while the Germans put their boots firmly onto Northern Italy. You know, they arrested all the father's they could in order to force young men to volunteer as slave labourers in Germany or become conscripts?
DerBlitzStag 2 years ago
The war obviously has to have purpose otherwise it is just senseless killing. In the case of Italy practice fell short of the theory and italy engaged in a disasterous war; mussolini took a gamble to secure Italy as a great mediterranian power on the basis of what he percived her destiny without taking into account his abilities and the realities of the situation. At some point he got it into his head that his nations destiny was intertwined with germany and put italy's Interests second.
peppermintjohn666 2 years ago
Was britain's approach to war any really less different; in our ideology we believed we were selflessly fighting for the good of europe and what we were doing was right, we were fighting for our destiny and the destiny of our empire aginst foreign agressors who were alien to our europe. This exactly how the Italians viewed their side of the war as well, though it was put in broad terms. Arguably we gave the most and lost even more out of the war than any other power, so were we fascist?
peppermintjohn666 2 years ago
No, war pre-dates Fascism. However, one shouldn't misjudge the importance of violence in Fascism, especially with the Squadirsti, the Falange ("Long Live Death!") the Iron Guard and the SA. Mosley thought of Fascism in unabashedly violent terms, the far left was attacking NUPA meetings, that "forces us to be Fascist" he said. Social Democracy would be taken over by Communism and Conservatism would give way to Fascism in a civil war or revolution, thank god it didn't.
DerBlitzStag 2 years ago
Fascism is an viewpoint which encompasses many values that predate it, going all the the way to the birth of nationalism. Read Henry V by shakespere and you sill see what is meant by the spiritual value of a war, written at the dawn of empire, but without that element it is wrong. Mosley was against violence and fought against war and violence his whole politcal career, from the black and tans, WW2, to creating a neutral europen bloc outside the sphere of american and soviet imperialism.
peppermintjohn666 2 years ago
If you read his auto-biography 'my life' you would see just how deeply he felt about violence. His decision to form a mock blackshirt army was after his speakers were attacked by violent thugs during the new party so he had to create stewards. Nothing that sinister, I dont think he was planning on a revolution with newspaper vendors and a couple of east end boxers do you? he was certainly less violent than the british fascisti which actually kidnapped people and hijacked trains.
peppermintjohn666 2 years ago
I know, but he wasn't the only one to get a bad time from leftist rowdies. Clement Atlee recounted that often Communists did the same to him. Political violence on that scale was an accepted part of London's political life for centuries, what Mosley did which really set things off was the introduction of uniforms into it. As Orwell notes, British people have been hostile to their own military (as individuals, rather than as an idea) for centuries.
DerBlitzStag 2 years ago
I look back at us in the war and there is so much to be admired in our actions and ideas. Naturally we also commited atrocities, it happens on all sides in all wars even in the falklands both sides shot prisoners, atrocities happen, it is human nature. But when it really comes down to it the fascist approach to war is one of sober stoic restraint.
peppermintjohn666 2 years ago
The Soviet Union gave more in terms of human life.
Metropolitus 2 years ago
"No Man No Problem" Joseph Stalin ya I guess the S.U realy gave more in terms of human life D
ImperialGuard9001 2 years ago
But vitalism can be imported into any ideology with the right amount of roaring Orators, young members and powerful cultural influence. Otto Strasser said the Kennedy cult was equivalent to Fascism. I fail to see the inherent goodness in vitalism, other than to give the masses excitement and make them more willing to report on each other. Surly Anti-Fa and UAF have a vitalist and powerful outlook?
DerBlitzStag 2 years ago
To define vitalism; the promotion of policies and ideas which will arrest national, social, and economic decline, it is a lose glove yes but it implies that it must be lived up to. So yes to say kennedy was a fascist is about as true as not, ultimately it depends on whether you incarnate the message, or if its just PR lies. Barrack obama to give a more recent example. it is one thing to make an authoritarian claim and quite another to live up to it, otherwise you are as bad as new labour.
peppermintjohn666 2 years ago
I don't suppose you saw Barrack Obama's acceptance speech, i mean with the croud shouthing 'yes we can' ovar again when he paused. Dont tell me you were not thinking what I was thinking XD. Dash I sound like a republican.
peppermintjohn666 2 years ago
As for the UAF, though it is technically possible to have a vitalist form of antifascism which might look something like laibach, the UAF, and other anti fascist groups like it empty utopianists and nihilists who are merely reveling on the decadence in relation to what our society has become and wish to put it further than what it already is. the fact they are backed and endorsed by a declining liberal political elite is testiment to this. Did you know David Cameron is a member of UAF?
peppermintjohn666 2 years ago
Thing is, the Anti-Fa youth with their violent tactics and sweeping worldview would make perfect squadristi if you could get them into nationalism. In fact, this seems to be quite the fashion with Germany's younger National Socialists, the National Bolsheviks and the National Anarchists who shamelessly remix the symbolism of anti-Fascism and Fascism in too one hell of a fashion trend. Notice how Nationalist and leftist stickers use the same motifs?
DerBlitzStag 2 years ago
You mean the red and black flag? i also could not help notice that Kai's non existant party uses the symbol of the social democrats of weimar germany, the three arrows. I am not too fammiliar with antifascists on the continent, but if the ones here are anything to go by then I would have to disagree. I shared a flat with 4 members of UAF, and they are all as wet as goldfish, they dont believe in anything other than empty universal love and would impose it implacably like cretins as a moral good
peppermintjohn666 2 years ago
Perhaps UAF is a bad example, Anti-Fa respects what I'm talking about better. In Germany they are almost identical with young nationalists in terms of music taste, dress sense, symbols and favoured forms of political activity.
DerBlitzStag 2 years ago
as I said I am a little unfamiliar whe it comes to the continent, though I know what you are talking about; both sides wear hoddies and scarves, and listen to awful heavy metal racket, i get you. but as i was saying these are fairly incidental, not to mention neither side probably fully understands its own philosophical and ideological implications. besides parties like the NDP are not proper fascists, they are not even proper national socialists (with the exeption of a few).
peppermintjohn666 2 years ago
My God I was just seing your "discussion" on comments betwen you and DerBliztStag and I just want to say i never saw such a interesiting well founded political and phylosical discusion on youtube like this you two are realy wise.
ImperialGuard9001 2 years ago
Really?
peppermintjohn666 2 years ago
Some say, others tell the truth. Just kidding, Peppermintjohannes can pack an intellectual punch.
Metropolitus 2 years ago
Thanks.
You have been a bit quiet recently
peppermintjohn666 2 years ago
You too, though perhaps not as much as me.
How goes Integralism?
Metropolitus 2 years ago
See your profile. I take it you read the recent ATTACK then. I think your imput on Dugins essay would have been interesting.
peppermintjohn666 2 years ago
Well covered already I think.
Wouldn't mind contributing something in the economic area, have been interested lately in the idea of "pension fund democracy" - probably more important than parliamentary democracy. Using this as a vehicle for employee ownership and from there to a Corporative economy.
The paper will be "The New Corporative State".
Metropolitus 2 years ago
That would be a very interesting and welcome adition. I look forward to it.
peppermintjohn666 2 years ago
You should join politics forum, it's easier to debate in a forum designed for debate rather than in the comments section. It has a good section for non-racial fascists.
My profile there is called Tally-oh.
DerBlitzStag 2 years ago
oh hi. i'm pikachu. stumbled here by accident. The theme of fascist and communist videos with anime characters in the background seemed familiar, but i wasn't sure, then i read the comments down and i'm like, oh i should have known it's tally oh.. lol.
Kamikadze888 1 year ago
Ah, yes, Boris Yeltsin dude.
Subscribe because of the novelty?
DerBlitzStag 1 year ago
Sure lol. I see you are a fan of Laibach, like myself. Did you see the new versions of the classsic Laibach songs, like Drzava and Brat Moi? Pretty awe-inspiring, I must say. I just watched them yesterday, which is how I stumbled upon here in the first place.
/watch?v=D3pbRGEAC1Q
Kamikadze888 1 year ago
Of course I've seen the new classics, live in London! Got my name down on the list to pre-order. There pretty awesome, especially after the anti-Climax of Volkswagner.
DerBlitzStag 1 year ago
The last time i attended their gig was back in late 2008 i think.. Anyway I rather liked Volkswagner, this for example: watch?v=YrMueetcGHY . You no like?
Kamikadze888 1 year ago
I just found Volkswagner a bit... anti-climatic, judging from the vids of the live performance here on youtube. It'll probably grow on me when I get the album itself, I often take time to adapt to some of their albums.
DerBlitzStag 1 year ago 8
@DerBlitzStag that is a very respectable thing to say:) thank you. I have to do the same thing from time to time
goregon1000 3 weeks ago
Just advancing an idea in a millitant and violent way does not make it vitalist. A vitalist idea has to have an intrisic worth that is philisophically grounded; eg religious fundamentalism or Nietzsche's superman philosophy. All else is nihilism and the abyss. The methodology and the manner of operationalisation of a given group is of no importance in realtion to the ideology, and this is where everyone gets it wrong; comparing fascists to communists to liberals, ect, it is not important.
peppermintjohn666 2 years ago
Well Lenin as well as Stalin hated modern art, but endorsed it beacuse it 'destroys' that which exists before. There is a Nietzschian element to modern art in the sense that leftists like it because it tears down existing values, whist to fascistically minded the destruction is just a means of clearing the way for something newer and greater. The decline of modernism was continent wide as it whittled down and died a semi natural death as Fascism died in the spirit.
peppermintjohn666 2 years ago
Problem with modernism is that it ages, only place you see Futurism is in the very museums which the Futurists wanted to burn.
DerBlitzStag 2 years ago
It did not age, it became irrelevant because the future such people had hoped for had been stolen from them. The modernist project only failed in the sense that the ideas that underpinned it 'failed' or at least have been pushed to the side in a sense. best to think of them as a future that could have been, that is why it is not in modern art galleries with that other nonsense and quite right so. Modern art, THAT is something that is old, recycling the same ideas because it has nothing new.
peppermintjohn666 2 years ago