@luvitluvitbaby "As for the $475 billion price tag," No no the Internet was Al Gore and he did it on his own, Reagan developed the Internet from Military funds, The Freeway system also military funds, The railroads paid from land and not the tax payer. I give up, go ahead print all the money you want, Trillions for a corrupt healthcare system, trillions for the unions called stimulus, and trillions just for Obama to flush down the toilet. Hell's Bell nothing bad could come of that Right?
@redbaroniii Al Gore did not invent the internet lol! Where do you think military funds come from silly, the military stork lol? They come from tax payers! The railroad was paid through taxpayers, Bottom line, this country built much of its wealth due to infrastructure! Other countries are updating their's and ours is 30 years overdue! If we want to remain competitive in the 21 st Century we NEED great infrastructure case closed!
@luvitluvitbaby " we NEED great infrastructure" Sure Of course, but not on China's money. We need to take the money from the Lousy Obama care and use it to help people live a better life.
@redbaroniii You're calling Obamacare lousy and you don't even know what it is lol! It took me a week just to convince you it wasn't a socialized single-payer system. The GOP has spread so much misinformation most Republicans believe there are death panels and penalty of jail time if you don't adhere to the provision lol! They believe a bureaucrat is going to escort them to their doctor's appointment, sit in on the appointment and dictate! The nonsense coming from the right is mind numbing lol!
@luvitluvitbaby "railroad was paid through taxpayers," Not so, the railroads go the money from investors and earned land as they built the railroad. Tax payor money was not used
@redbaroniii just read up on it, you were right I stand corrected, it wasn't paid for through tax dollars! It was even worse than that! It was paid for by the government HANDING OVER land to the railroad companies and allowing them to PAY for it with full with interest much later! You know what, that sounds a lot like Obama's Auto Bailout! ABRAHAM LINCOLN THE SOCIALIST LOL! All the other examples used taxpayer funds, explain that!
@luvitluvitbaby "ABRAHAM LINCOLN THE SOCIALIST LOL!" Suppressed that you would so mischaracterized Old Abe. You have a warped idea about people that resist tyranny. We have a firm political belief that there should be a strong government. Size does not matter but purpose does. We don't mind taxes/spending either, not at all. We do fight when that government uses its power to regulate our personal lives in breach of the constitution.
@redbaroniii You wrote "Surprised that you would so mischaracterized Old Abe."
Now you see what I go through debating right-wingers, anybody can take someone's idea, twist it and distort it into something it's clearly not. Anybody can label anything they disagree with as Communism, that doesn't make the label true
Many ideas in the American Jobs Act were supported by Republicans and Democrats Liberals and Conservatives, but because so many of you want to HATE Obama you tune that part out!
@luvitluvitbaby "anybody can take someone's idea, twist it " Perhaps but you were using a term of art. Such things are very useful to organize a thought, or statement. Saying that Franco was a Fascist is truthful and accurate. In the book "1984" the Language of the State is "news-speak" which means using non defined terms to look like you are saying one thing and meaning another. The left, (right from the pages of 1984) say "investments", instead of "corrupt spending". Understand?
@jayceelb you wrote "The left, (right from the pages of 1984) say "investments", instead of "corrupt spending". Understand?"
point well stated! Right wingers tend to be more forceful so they control the debate in this country! Republicans are unapologetic while liberals tend to be pussies! Conservatives have done a great job in turning every liberal word into a 4 letter word in American politics so the left keep changing the words instead of challenging the right! I wish they'd grow a pair!
I cleared my calandar, told the cient's to go to hell and leave me alone, warmed up the big screen, made pop corn, have the cold beer handy, Damn I am ready for the GREAT JOBS SPEECH. Lets hear it for Obama !!!!!
@redbaroniii Just got through listening to it. I think he did exactly what i thought he would do. He has a pretty good mix of Democrat and Republican ideas! $65 billion in tax cuts, a good amount of deregulation, but at the same time recognizing that this country's economic prosperity was realized in great part to our infrastructure which should have been updated 30 years ago. The guy that kicked it off with the public railroad was none other than Mr. Republican himself Abraham Lincoln!
@luvitluvitbaby "Just got through listening to it." The beer is warm the pop con untouched and the big screen is blank. My mind swims in disbelief that my president is a ,,,,, how to be polite..., a fool. $475 billions on top of a wasted trillion and all for the same old shovel ready jobs. In a few months the president will once again slap his knee and laugh at us fools saying "there weren't as many shovel ready jobs as we thought HA HA HA HA" We shall get the last laugh my friends.
@redbaroniii First of all, did you feel the same way about Lincoln's intercontinental railroad project or Eisenhower's modern Highway system, or Ronald Reagan's development of the internet? Government played a leading road in the development and implantation of all three. Think where we would be if these project never existed. As for the $475 billion price tag, don't worry it will be trimmed to $275 billion by the time the GOP gets through with it and unlike Medicare Part D it will be paid for!
@luvitluvitbaby "As for the $475 billion price tag," No no the Internet was Al Gore and he did it on his own, Reagan developed the Internet from Military funds, The Freeway system also military funds, The railroads paid from land and not the tax payer. I give up, go ahead print all the money you want, Trillions for a corrupt healthcare system, trillions for the unions called stimulus, and trillions just for Obama to flush down the toilet. Hell's Bell nothing bad could come of that Right?
@luvitluvitbaby "I look at, stats, figures and the reality of public policy" Thus, you don't see the big picture. You are like the engineer that Studied the problem of bearings wearing out on a conveyer belt. He came to the conclusion that if they starved the Jews down to under 90 pounds the bearings on the conveyor to the furnace would last much longer. He saw only stats and figures not the morality. Obama care is not as evil, truly, but it is evil and not within America's culture.
@redbaroniii you wrote "He saw only stats and figures not the morality. Obama care is not as evil, truly, but it is evil and not within America's culture."
I wasn't going to respond to this comment because the anology was so way off in another galaxy!
But on second thought... Obamacare is NOT EVIL, but you want to know what is?
Letting a 3 year old boy with a pre-existing condition die because his FULL-TIME EMPLOYED parents make too much and don't qualify for Medicaid!
@luvitluvitbaby "Letting a 3 year old boy with a pre-existing condition die because his FULL-TIME EMPLOYED parents make too much and don't qualify for Medicaid!" Yes that would be tragic, but I just don't believe this happens all of the time. If you, or I, know of such a child we would reach into our pockets and donate to help. Hopitals, drug compaies spend fortunes to help thos people. But it is not so common that we must bow down to Obama give him power to use force on all of us.
@redbaroniii you wrote "Yes that would be tragic, but I just don't believe this happens all of the time."
It happens more than you think a Harvard study concluded that 44,000 Americans die each year due to a lack of Health Insurance.
It would be nice that you would help that family, but come on how much do you think a community is going to be able to chip in to help a kid with Cancer! Treatment can run over a million dollars!
@luvitluvitbaby"a Harvard study concluded" I read that but was not impressed with how they arrived at that number. It was if you died, without insurance, you could have lived with it. I beg to differ.
@luvitluvitbaby "It would be nice that you would help that family" Charity does work, and works very efficiently. My older brother was born crippled, at 6 he wrote a letter to the Governor. The Governor called my Dad at his employment and offered to pay for three years of operations so he could walk. my brother is now over 71, walking, and a missionary in the jungles of Thailand. The Governor was a Shiner, My Dad was a Lutheran.
@redbaroniii Charity does work, and works very efficiently. My older brother was born crippled, at 6 he wrote a letter to the Governor
That was a beautiful and inspiring story! I'm happy for your brother and your family. Charity is a wonderful thing but it is very limited. Those who benefit from it should consider themselves blessed. With that said, if charity was as efficient as you characterized it, we would'n't have 44,000 Americans die each year due to a lack of healthcare!
@luvitluvitbaby "Letting a 3 year old boy with a pre-existing condition die because his FULL-TIME EMPLOYED parents make too much and don't qualify for Medicaid!" You assume us freedom pople have no heart.. I take umbrage at that. For your information Red state give far more for charity than blue states. Obamacare will say NO to many people just like all those other developed States that you like more than the USA. I had a friend in England that died due to refusal by the Government to help.
@redbaroniii You wrote "You assume us freedom people have no heart.."
I never said you didn't have a heart, I was simply showing you the ugly truth behind for-profit unregulated non-universal healthcare! Most people like you are oblivious to it. red states rank at the bottom when it comes to health care blue states at the top, why? You keep comparing Obamacare to Great Britain and other Single-Payer socialized universal systems, why? We have a for-profit free market universal system!
@redbaroniii George W Bush 1.1 million jobs created in 8 years! George H. W. Bush 2.6 million jobs in 4 years! William J. Clinton 22.7 million jobs in 8 years Barack H. Obama -2.4 million jobs
Now you have to keep in mind that When Barack Obama came in the country was loosing 700 k jobs a month and that went on for several months in 2009! Then we had a period of jobs being added starting in early 2010 till now!
@luvitluvitbaby When will you finally see he is a terrible president? When vultures are snatching children from the arms of starving mothers on the main streets of America?you sir are a member of the few,that thinks Obama is doing great, and is handling the economy better than Bush, or even Carter for that matter. The last to buy the lie that Obama created 2.4 million jobs, yet there are more Americans out of work than ever before (the actual jobless is greater than the great depression).
@redbaroniii You wrote Using your math (you brag about your math you know) Hoover saved or created 2.4 million jobs too."
Yeah his job numbers look pretty bad but looks can be deceiving. Think about it, his first year in office he walked into an economic tsunami! He took over at a time when the economy was loosing 700k a month, by the time 2009 was over we had LOST 5 MILLION JOBS So he started 5 MILLION jobs in the hole! He has had 18 straight months of positive job numbers till now!
@luvitluvitbaby Reagan waked into a bigger mess caused by the Lefty Carter and had us looking great in just under two years. It looks like the wheels are coming of the Obama band wagon. Now we are going to get one of those Spend, Spend, and new program speeches, yuck ! I am going to watch the football game. How can you think more of the same is going to make thing better?
@redbaroniii you wrote "Reagan waked into a bigger mess caused by the Lefty Carter and had us looking great in just under two years."
Wow what universe were you living in? I was just a little boy at the time, but I do have books. High inflation predated the Carter years and things got considerably worse under Reagan before they got better! Reagan inherited 7.5% unemployment by December 1982 it was 10.8% (higher than Obama). The difference was the folks in Washington were adults!
@luvitluvitbaby "The difference was the folks in Washington were adults! " Can't agree more the differance was the people in Washington at that time, they were Republicans.
@redbaroniii ...continued.... and for the record, Reagan did not walk into anything close to what Obama walked into. In 1981 the country wasn't loosing 700k jobs a month. Bank lending wasn't frozen, our auto industry about to vanish. Reagan was not staring down the barrel of a 10 trillion dollar debt nor a 1.2 trillion dollar deficit that was triple the previous year! He wasn't fighting two wars one of which was waged on false pretense and the other badly mismanaged since its inception. C'mon!!
@luvitluvitbaby "Reagan did not walk into anything close" you are right it was worse for Reagan, inflation and stagflation of Carter, at 28% interest nobody, but nobody could get a loan. As to the debt that you think is ALL Bush's fault, just answer me this, What President increased the debt more than any other? Bingo! Obama! Even if there were no wars it would be a drop in the bucket. Obama said he would end those wars pronto, he lied. We told you Obamacare was a job killer.you never learn.
@redbaroniii you wrote "Reagan did not walk into anything close" you are right it was worse for Reagan, inflation and stagflation of Carter, at 28% "
You really of Nixon right? That's where it started! He was even considering price controls lol! I could just imagine what the right would say if Obama even pondered the thought lol!
Nobody could get a loan when Obama took over. Why do you think Chrysler and GM couldn't file a normal chapter 11? Lending was frozen!
@luvitluvitbaby "Nixon.... That's where it started" For every Democrat presidential failure you blame a Repiubican. This is a sickness that it is the other guy's fault. Nixon did OK and he was the better president than LBJ when I was fighting/killing commies. Now yoou are going to tell me Carter was wonderful? BRAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA,.
@jayceelb You wrote "Nixon.... That's where it started""
Um yes! I don't have to make shit up in order to support my position. Richard Nixon was dealing with high inflation too! He even attempted to place price controls on goods and services. Picture Obama trying to do that today and what the reaction would be from the right if you will. Inflation plagued most of the 70's not just Carter's time! Oh by the way, Carter lost because of the Iran hostage situation not because of the economy!
You wrote "Nixon did OK and he was the better president than LBJ when I was fighting/killing commies." Nixon was a better President in my opinion, especially on foreign policy! Richard Nixon is a throwback to when Republicans actually enbraced intelect! Nixon's downfall was that he didn't throw his men under the bus when he found out that they broke into the Watergate Hotel after the fact! I don't like LBJ because he is the reason 44,000 soilders lost their lives for a LIE!!!!!
@jayceelb Over the past couple of years I noticed how GOP politicians would declare the Stimulus a total and utter failure and that it hasn't created any jobs! If that's your opinion I don't agree, but I respect it. What I don't respect are those same politicians requesting stimulus funds going home to their districts taking pictures with locals while standing in front of HUGE mock checks! They take credit for jobs the stimulus created and then blast it on national t.v. continued.....
@redbaroniii You keep talking about the national debt being high, but before him Obama, Bush Jr. held the record and before him Reagan. Funny, I never heard much outrage from the right on this. I recall you guys saying something to the effect of "deficits don't matter" lol! What you don't get is that just because you have high debt doesn't mean its a result of new spending! A lot of this debt is due to a severe drop in tax revenue because so many folks are out of work on unemployment.
@luvitluvitbaby " I never heard much outrage from the right " You were tone deaf like Obama. At the time there was great outrage. That was the start of the Tea party, which BTW is more than half former Democrats!
@redbaroniii read my previous post below this one calling Obama Hoover is a little unfair. It would be like us watching a football game and the first half Jay Cutler (GWBush) throws 3 for 33 for 8 interceptions 0 touchdowns and 27 yards passing and his team is losing 63-0. In the second half they change quarterbacks and bring in Michael Vick (Barack Obama) who throws 17 for 27 for 169 yards 2 touchdowns 0 interceptions and the score is 70-14. would you say this is Vick's loss?
@luvitluvitbaby " like us watching a football game " I do like the football idea and will be watching it rather than our president going on and on about we need to get further in debt, have more job killing programs, and give more power to him. Yuck. You must admit that it looks likely that Obama's policy and Obamacare will drive us into a bigger depression that Hoover's.
@redbaroniii I love how Republicans rave against spending now lol! Every time this country has gone into recession since the Great Depression it has inacted spending increases, even Reagan got out of his recession increasing military spending. The Republicans know the only way out of this mess is to spend and that is precisely why they are dead set against it! They know if the economy improves they can't win the White House back in 2012! They rather hurt the country than lose! what a shame...
@luvitluvitbaby "I love how Republicans" You are like my children, when one is caught doing the wrong thing He/she will say the other child did it too. Who the hell care what the other guy did? Do you think for one second that more of Obama policy is going to save the day when he has goofed up so badly? Again we told you that Obama care would be a job killer and IT IS. So you want more of this president's lousy policies? You know he is finished..
@jayceelb You wrote "Again we told you that Obama care would be a job killer and IT IS."
There is NO creditble source that can back you up on that LOL! STOP listening to Michele Bachmann, your IQ will drop just listening to her lol. Even Politifact a non-partisan fact checker, says that claim is FALSE! Try again LMAO!
@luvitluvitbaby ...continued Jonathan Alter came up with a brilliant strategy to stop this GOP hypocrisy from happening. He said he would advise the President to warn GOP members that if they vote against his infrastructure proposals and actively blast the plan, when it comes down to dolling out the funds for infrastructure he will make sure those districts get zero dollars! It's hardball, but I would certainly do it!
He is a noted crackpot, that cares more for politics than the people. Gee I thing you said that about me. In any event, you have not told me about the "Commerce Clause" argument of our AG that the Federal Government should not have any impediment to do anything it wants under that clause. Upholding Obamacare does this. Do you think the Feds should be able to regulate every aspect of your personal life? Please answer.
@jayceelb o.k. a senior editor of Newsweek is a crackpot lol! So is it o.k. if I call William Kristol who is the founder and editor of the Weekly Standard a crackpot, because I really don't agree with his politics; that being the criteria and all?
The commerce clause has been upheld in a number of cases. If the Supreme Court follows legal precedent it will be upheld.
I don't think politicians will abuse the clause, they haven't yet and there would be no logical reason for them to start.
@luvitluvitbaby "The commerce clause has been upheld " You Obviously don't see the danger, right now Obama claims he can force all of us to buy a product that he approves at a price approved by him. That is abuse plain and simple, never been done before ever. We say it is abuse, you say it is not, but it the Presidents of the future decide something that you think is an abuse you are no longer protected by the constitution. Do you like NOT being protected by the constitution?
@jayceelb As I am writing this I just read the details of the individual mandate! It states you MUST buy health insurance or face an annual fine of $695 . Correct me if I'm wrong but that works out to a monthly cost of $57.92 lol!
So let me get this straight...If I get an insurance qoute for a monthly premium of $755.83 a month I can say screw that and pay the fine? hmmmm I wonder which one I'll pick?
@luvitluvitbaby "Correct me if I'm wrong" So you are saying that now, right now, it is only a little problem and I should ignore it. Can you absolutely guarantee me that at no time in the future will the Government raise the penalty and never, ever jail a person? The point is: do you believe that the State should have the absolute power to regulate any part of your life, even if they are radical Republicans? Yes, or No? Remember Dems and Obama are going to get clobbered next Nov.
@luvitluvitbaby "cost of $57.92 lol!" -You forget, I am not a conveyor belt type engineer that has no morals. I believe deeply in freedom. I will make my own arrangements for my health, and I am strong enough to take what life gives me. It is a wonderful, exciting, rewarding way to live compared to being a slave to the freeloaders, and the State. I know what happens when you give the State the power to regulate your life without the constitution to protect you.
@redbaroniii You wrote "I believe deeply in freedom. I will make my own arrangements for my health,"
Do you carry health insurance now? if yes, than you can keep doing what you've been doing, not much will change for you other than the fact that your coverage is guaranteed now.
From our conversation I gather that you are either 65 or nearing it. If so this really doesn't apply to you because you have Medicare and the VA.
@luvitluvitbaby "wake up!" Again. you are making a claim that Obama care does nothing new. You are very wrong, among many bad things it puts a new Trillion dollar layer of very expensive bureaucrats with unlimited power to Force businesses, and individuals to comply with whatever they think is best for themselves. Who the heck said I support the broken, corrupt and bankrupt medicare/medicaid system?
@redbaroniii So lets see.... you want to get rid of Medicare, Medicaid and if someone gets shot let them bleed to death in the street unless they can whip out a credit card and pay the 911 dispatcher over the telephone even if they're unconscious lol!
You gotta wonderful plan! You should run or office LMAO!
@luvitluvitbaby "someone gets shot let them bleed to death in the street" You debate by extreme, a childish method, and never convincing. Did you know that within a life time America Didn't have Medicare/medicaid? Did you know things went well? Did you know that they didn't enact these programs because people were bleeding to death in the streets? Did you know that? Do you know anything?
@redbaroniii you wrote "Did you know that within a life time America Didn't have Medicare/medicaid?"
sure did! I also know that the reason Medicare was passed was because seniors made up over 30% of the population living under poverty level at the time. There was a real outcry for this to STOP and it did! I dare you to run for public office on a platform of abolishing Medicare and see what seniors do to you lol! They are the most consistent voter block too... I dare you!!!
@luvitluvitbaby "over 30% of the population living under poverty level " Tricky language you are using, The poverty line has moved up a lot, almost half of them own homes, or use to before Obama ruined the economy. Almost all own a car, TV (Color big screen). and are overweight. My family would today be considered in poverty but we were never poor. In any event it was the attorneys, and regulations that make insurance too costly.
@redbaroniii you wrote "over 30% of the population living under poverty level " Tricky language you are using, "
I wasn't talking about today , I was talking about 1965 when Medicare was enacted that's why there was a push for it! Thanks for proving my point since it was enacted condition for seniors have greatly improved! You are absolutely right!
@redbaroniii You wrote "You debate by extreme, a childish method, and never convincing."
I'm just trying to figure out where you stand! You say you think its unfair to have an individual mandate for everyone who can afford it, to carry their own insurance, yet you imply its also an injustice to have Hospitals treat someone in an emergency regardless of their ability to pay! The only alternative is too ban both practices and have people dying in the streets. How is my argument childish?
@luvitluvitbaby "trying to figure out where you stand!" I have no problem with free people getting together and helping their fellow man, I encourage it. Even if Corporations want to help with the approval of their stock holders fine, great. I don't want the State to use force on my fellow citizens. I will stand with my fellow citizen against Obama oppression. Now do you understand?
@redbaroniii but where do you stand on the law. Do you want to see hospitals turn folks away even if its a medical emergency if they are unable to pay?
@luvitluvitbaby "but where do you stand on the law." You don't need a law to force a community to do what is needed. Now you must have faith, faith in the power of free people. Americans will get together and figure a way to take care of its problems. Not by the State Forcing its way but by civil society. Until the State took over the function of civil society it was working fine and without the huge expense of Obamacare. You have more faith in the State than your fellow citizen, .
@redbaroniii You wrote "You don't need a law to force a community to do what is needed." So then I assume you are for repeal of the provision that mandates Hospitals MUST treat you in an emergency regardless of your ability to pay and of Obamacare!
The end result would literally be people dying in the streets!
@redbaroniii you wrote "You don't need a law to force a community to do what is needed."
You most certainly do, your position is not only on the fringe, but not based in reality. If we eliminate all laws and assumed that free people would govern themselves accordingly we would have total chaos!
@luvitluvitbaby " If we eliminate all laws " I didn't say that nor believe that. You lied about what I said or you just don't like what I said, either way it is unfair of you to do that. Of course laws are needed to protect people from each other. you just don't see the difference between a free society that made America great, and State Force that will ruin it.
@luvitluvitbaby "only on the fringe, but not based in reality. " How about based on approximately 200 years of American history? This one you will lose.
@luvitluvitbaby " assumed that free people would govern themselves " You have a great lawyer that will disagree with you that the proposition of self governing cannot stand, as in "of the people, by the people, for the people". You are just flat wrong. Free people can govern themselves, and don't need the State to run their personal lives..
@redbaroniii you wrote" Free people can govern themselves, and don't need the State to run their personal lives.."
You are starting to question my intelligence? I have to say your statements have been rather ambiguous. It sounds like you are advocating no laws or government involvement because you say free people can govern themselves. I apologize if I'm mischaracterizing this. I'm just trying figure out how much authority you think the government should have if any at all.
@redbaroniii you wrote" Free people can govern themselves, and don't need the State to run their personal lives.."
You are starting to question my intelligence? I have to say your statements have been rather ambiguous. It sounds like you are advocating no laws or government involvement because you say free people can govern themselves. I apologize if I'm mischaracterizing this. I'm just trying figure out how much authority you think the government should have if any at all.
@luvitluvitbaby "how much authority you think the government should have 'The Government should protect its citizens, and there property from force and fraud of others, and nations. That it does best. Toothpicks for the poor programs are best served by civil organizations. Parking, foreign aid, Statue in the park, can be debated that debate is call politics. Running the health care of the individual is not a Government function, and should be left to the people in a fee-enterprise system.
@luvitluvitbaby "where do you stand" The leftists always leave a trail of destruction, poverty, hopelessness, and often blood. Are you proud of the way your party has handle our major cities, all of which are absolute failures economically, becoming homes of the poor and unemployed? Take Detroit, compare pictures of it and Nagasaki after the bomb. they look the same. Shame on the democrats. They have hit our cities like atom bombs. Now let us see you blame others as always you do.
@redbaroniii you wrote "Take Detroit, compare pictures of it and Nagasaki after the bomb. "
You think that was all on Democrats? Detroit became that way due to NAFTA and other unfair trade deals! Factories shut down and unions busted. There was a time when you could make a pretty good living in this country with just a high school Diploma that isn't so any more.This global economy demands highly skilled workers which takes me into my next comment....continued......
@redbaroniii....continued Bill Clinton pointed out that there were about 2 million jobs out there unfilled simply because there are NO workers with the skill set to fill them. He proposed that government partner with business allowing them to train the workers they need at no cost to the business. These businesses can fill the position and people go back to work. President Obama has this in his plan too I believe. what do you think?
@luvitluvitbaby "partner with business allowing them to train the workers they need at no cost to the business" I would not go to the barricade against this program, as long as the real costs are not in addition to our present budget. That is, as long as funds are diverted from other failed programs, or startup funding for Obama care then it is OK by me. But any new funding seems very harmful and should be opposed.
@redbaroniii You wrote "I would not go to the barricade against this program, as long as the real costs are not in addition to our present budget."
You can bet your bottom dollar that the President's proposal will be deficit neutral, in fact it is likely to reduce the deficit over time. He knows he could never get a bill passed that added to the deficit, and this time around it's really not necessary. 2 1/2 years ago we were in economic cardiac arrest so special measures had to be taken.
@redbaroniii You wrote "I would not go to the barricade against this program, as long as the real costs are not in addition to our present budget."
You can bet your bottom dollar that the President's proposal will be deficit neutral, in fact it is likely to reduce the deficit over time. He knows he could never get a bill passed that added to the deficit, and this time around it's really not necessary. 2 1/2 years ago we were in economic cardiac arrest so special measures had to be taken.
@luvitluvitbaby "and you picked up the tab for Americans who used the ER" And you say the solution for this is to make it even more unfair. You are a broken record; how many times must I say we should not pay for freeloaders?
@redbaroniii You wrote "And you say the solution for this is to make it even more unfair."
How is insisting that freeloaders who can afford to pay for their own care instead of you paying or it making it more unfair?
How is giving a middle class family that has someone with a pre-existing condition the freedom to BUY their own healthcare insurance on the FREE MARKET FOR-PROFIT healthcare SYSTEM instead of having you pay for their care when they enter the ER somehow more unfair? explain.
@redbaroniii You wrote "It is a wonderful, exciting, rewarding way to live compared to being a slave to the freeloaders"
How would you know? Before Obamacare you still paid taxes that support Medicare (Healthcare for the elderly) Medicaid (Healthcare for the poor) and you picked up the tab for Americans who used the ER for medical attention and did not pay either because they were unable to or because they didn't feel like it.
Now you will just pay for Medicaid and Medicare wake up!
@luvitluvitbaby "How would you know?" I fought for freedom, lived under the rule of leftists, and am an eye witness to the evil they do to the soul of mankind.
@jayceelb ....continued the fine is so weak that most folks won't buy insurance electing to simply pay the fine until they get sick. This puts private insurance at a grave disadvantage and will surely drive them out of business! Then guess who steps in to fill their place lol!
As for your point concerning the commerce clause. Unless you are talking about us switching to a dictatorship your premise is unfounded. Why would any elected official purposely enact a law that would get him booted out?
@luvitluvitbaby "Why would any elected official purposely enact a law that would get him booted out?" That is a good question, and I think Obama just did. You know he is toast, and other than you nobody is going to vote for him.
@redbaroniii you wrote "You know he is toast, and other than you nobody is going to vote for him."
I strongly disagree and here's why, the Republicans made a tactical error when they opted after the 2008 election to demonize and make Obama meet his waterloo "NO COMPROMISE". It helped them win the house in the short term 2010, but now they have a serious problem! Continued.....
@luvitluvitbaby "publicans made a tactical error" I don't think so. Obama made the big mistake. He went against the advice of the Republicans, would only listen to those that first agreed with his crazy plan. The people never, ever supported the nutty health bill, still don't by large margins. He and he alone is now to be blamed as the wheels come off. The Republicans as bad as they are supported the people and have been rewarded. Look at the polls for God' sake.
@redbaroniii you wrote " I don't think so. Obama made the big mistake. He went against the advice of the Republicans, " First off Obama went against everyone in his administration who told him not to tackle healthcare!
Listen to the GOP? What??? It's their bill! The individual mandate provision you call unconstitutional was placed in the bill by (R) Chuck Grassely. Then he raved against it lol! How's that for rational?
The bill is a mirror image of GOP hopeful Mitt Romney's plan! Just stop
@luvitluvitbaby "January 1983 is through the roof?" I really didn't know that, gee that makes him a bigger dolt than I thought. In fact YOU may have made a big mistake by not listening to the Republicans. Wilson taught us that going against the people, and not listening to opposition, and failing to make compromises leads to failure. You and Obama committed the worst political sin by not seeking bi-partisan support.
@redbaroniii You wrote "in fact YOU may have made a big mistake by not listening to the Republicans."
Why would he go along with the Republicans when they purposely oppose everything he is for even i they agree with it?
Boehner got 98% of what he wanted in the debt ceiling negotiations and they still had to be pushed and prodded to except that deal! So let me get this straight, the barometer for compromise is giving the GOP everything they ask for? LOL you're funny!
@luvitluvitbaby "Why would he go along with the Republicans when they purposely oppose everything he is for even i they agree with it?" You said the Rep. were contrary, yet you now admit it was the president that cut them off. Truth comes out; it is Obama that is willfully going it alone. Such cheek.
@luvitluvitbaby "Republicans have tried to work with this President " Thank you for listing each of Obama failures to lead. Leadership is more than TelePrompTer speeches, name calling, and blaming Bush. If you are a leader you get all of the team together and get them to work together Reagan had democrats to work with and he got his programs through. Tip Oneal was a lot tougher than any Rep. leader today. The President is only the leader of , as he said, "his base," not the rest of us.
@redbaroniii You wrote"Thank you for listing each of Obama failures to lead. "
All of his "failures" as you characterize it, were Republican ideas that they turned against because they found out Obama supported them lol! Reagan worked with ADULTS in congress. I don't recall people running around saying I hope he fails in 1981 or the majority leader proclaiming "my NUMBER 1 GOAL is to make sure Reagan is a one term President!"
If you got any quotes to the contrary I'd like to hear them!
@luvitluvitbaby " Republican ideas that they turned against " Sorry I can only go so far, I just flat out don't believe that all these ideas were totally embraced by the entire Republican party. Nope just don't think so. You never answered me, do you believe that the State has the right to regulate every aspect of your live that they want to? If not then where in the constitution is that protection?
@redbaroniii You wrote "do you believe that the State has the right to regulate every aspect of your live that they want to?"
Hell NO, but I don't think anyone is pushing for that. I would hope you don't believe in anarchy but I have to admit I'm starting to have my doubts since you believe we don't need laws and people can just govern themselves.
@redbaroniii You wrote "do you believe that the State has the right to regulate every aspect of your live that they want to?"
Hell NO, but I don't think anyone is pushing for that. I would hope you don't believe in anarchy but I have to admit I'm starting to have my doubts since you believe we don't need laws and people can just govern themselves.
@luvitluvitbaby "Hell NO, but I don't think anyone is pushing for that" Not now but If the extreme right that you hate takes over they can have carte blanch to do as they will. Even I fear that. You must think of the future. My contacts tell me one of the lady SC Justices is worried about the commerce clause. Thinks it gives way too much power to any future President, and may vote Obama care down just to keep the right from running wild.
@redbaroniii You wrote " Not now but If the extreme right that you hate takes over they can have carte blanch to do as they will. Even I fear that. "
look...unless we have a military coup and a Fidel Castro-like character seizes power I don't think you have anything to worry about lol! Think about it...If I ran for public office and somehow pushed for and implemented a law that says we should release all sex offenders from prison ASAP, how many people would vote for me next election?
@luvitluvitbaby "you believe we don't need laws " As I have said before the rule of law is one of those things that I fraught for, really love it and could not make my living without it. None the less, you keep saying that I do not believe in the rule of law, I am starting to doubt your intelligence. You do know the difference between 'rule of law' and 'anarchy'? Don't you? Perhaps you should look up the terms and educate yourself.
@luvitluvitbaby " "my NUMBER 1 GOAL is to make sure Reagan is a one term President!" You are right they didn't say that, they said much worse. They claimed that he was senile, stupid, illiterate, uneducated, and a fool. And that was just what the major media said, what the Democrats said was far worse. Claimed those that support him were violent Nazi hayseed redneck racist hicks. Hey just like you guys call any body that disagrees with Obama.
@redbaroniii they may have said he was senile or even stupid, but Nazi? That's one I haven't heard. I expect folks to criticize the President and name call, but the level that Obama has endured is unprecedented. The way they made fun of Reagan was the same way they made fun of Ross Perot Dan Quayle or Bill Clinton. Remember Reagan appealed to Democrats too (Reagan Democrats) With Obama it's an insidious hatred I've never seen before. The right tries to make him into a foreign enemy!
@luvitluvitbaby "With Obama it's an insidious hatred I've never seen before" Don't think so. The most savaged was Lincoln, the Bush (you remember the pictures of Bush as monkey, ya don't see those of Obama). Except for a few nut jobs on the extreme, Obama has enjoyed the slavish adoration of the traditional media. Some popular news people get "tingles up their leg" whenever Obama speaks. No my friend Obama has got it good, Anyone disagrees with him are branded racists for heavens sake.
@redbaroniii you wrote "Anyone disagrees with him are branded racists for heavens sake." Not really, the GOP has done an excellent job of sounding the alarm on the race card! If you accuse someone on the right of being racist you get accused of playing the race card. As for Bush, I seem to recall after 9/11 if you dare disagree with this President on any level between 2001-2007 you were automatically labeled un-American and accused of giving aid and comfort to our enemies!
@luvitluvitbaby All of his "failures" I know a few things about leadership, saw good ones and bad. Obama is one of the worst leaders. He leads from behind not from the front. He breaks the record on the use of the word "I". He calls his opponents enemies, and says they should sit in the back of the bus, then wonders why they don't jump when he tells them to. He eats before his troops, first to sleep the last to the office. He remains on vacation, we wait for his plan
@redbaroniii Great diversion by the way, I love your non-answer to the fact that all Obama's so-called failures were not even his ideas, but rather the GOP's! He just signed on to them and they rejected them after the fact for political gain lol! Anyway, I think he has been the most effective leader we have had in quite a long time and by the end of his second term he will go down as one of our greatest Presidents EVER! Mark my words!
@redbaroniii "Obama's so-called failures were not even his ideas" So I take it that you don't think Obama is bright enough to think up these schemes? I think I agree with you he is not that bright at all.
@redbaroniii you wrote "So I take it that you don't think Obama is bright enough to think up these schemes?"
I never questioned his intelligence, my goodness the man graduated magna cum laude from Harvard Law School. This shouldn't be a debate. I don't agree with Richard Nixon's politics, but there was no denying the man's brilliance!
As for it not being his schemes, you're right they were not his ideas origanally. They were GOP ideas, they only abandoned them once Obama co-opted them lol!
The Republicans have tact themselves so far to the right that now they are pushing extreme candidates. In any normal election cycle the GOP front runners should be Mitt Romney or Jon Huntsman! They could beat Obama in a general election. Instead they have Perry and Bachmann! Perry is going to be haunted by his record and book he wrote just 9 months ago and Bachmann's gaffs and false statements are too many in number to overcome, not to mention her positions are wacko to put it mildly lol!
@luvitluvitbaby " Republicans have tact themselves so far to the right" From where you see it Stalin would seem a radical righist. Romney was the wrong Morman, Hatch would have been better. Perry is OK, the rest I have to wait to see how they run. Don't get me started with the gaffs of our president, and how many states are there?.
@redbaroniii You wrote"From where you see it Stalin would seem a radical rightist."
LOL you're funny!! but seriously, how would Orin Hatch be better.? He and Bob Dole co-sponsored Obamacare 16 years before Obama! In your book that makes him a red loving COMMIE! Rick Perry? Oh please... he's paid puppet for corperate interest! Bet you didn't know he supported HillaryCare which is 10 times more liberal than Obamacare LMAO! So...you have just admitted to supporting self avowed GOP Marxists LOL!
@luvitluvitbaby " how would Orin Hatch be better.?" I met Sen. Hatch and he seems like a good guy. No doubt I may be the only person that agrees 100 % with me. I am not adverse to supporting the lesser of two evils. Voted for McCain. We were shot down a year apart while flying the same type aircraft (A4 Skyhawk), I went into the drink and was back on the ship after 4 hours. But the thing is; we Naval Aviators would have died for each other, and that is one hell-of-a-bond.
@luvitluvitbaby " how would Orin Hatch be better.?" I met Sen. Hatch and he seems like a good guy. No doubt I may be the only person that agrees 100 % with me, however, I am not adverse to supporting the lesser of two evils. Voted for McCain. We were shot down a year apart while flying the same type aircraft (A4 Skyhawk), I went into the drink and was back on the ship after 4 hours. But the thing is; we Naval Aviators would have died for each other, and that is one hell-of-a-bond.
@redbaroniii Just take a step back and take off your partisan hat for a moment. If I told you the Democrats were going to nominate Louis Farrakhan or Nancy Pelosi to run on the party ticket you would say we were crazy, they could never win.
By moving the GOP so far to the right this is what happened! To put it in perspective Ronald Reagan would not get the nomination in today's GOP! He is too liberal! That's a problem GOP leaders didn't calculate when they courted the Tea party!
@luvitluvitbaby "the Democrats were going to nominate Louis Farrakhan or Nancy Pelosi " Obama is just as left as Pelosi, and let you be the jusge, our attorney general has said he will not enforce hate crimes against whites. Farrakhan is happy that the attorney general is doing his bidding. Obama is as bad as those two, don't you think so?
@luvitluvitbaby "Nancy Pelosi is as left win g" Really, do you approve of our attorney general discriminating on enforcing hate laws based on the color of a person's skin?
@redbaroniii ....Continued.....Obama is a center-right Republican in any other era of American Politics. In order to make him appear leftist, the GOP had to tack far to the right. The base of the Republican party is made up of folks who share the same ideology as the John Birch Society. Though this group has existed for decades they were a small number within the GOP until recently. Whether its Perry or Bachmann, either one will get SMOKED in the general, even with a bad economy!
@luvitluvitbaby "same ideology as the John Birch Societ" Nope not even close. The tea party is mostly working, (until Obama screwed up the economy now they are victims of the Democrats) democrats that are upset that their party has embraced total government control, central planning and crazy job killing health plans. The john birch folks are long gone. That is like me saying the most of the Democrat party is Marxist. Are they?
@redbaroniii " Unless you are talking about us switching to a dictatorship your premise is unfounded." You are very blind to the fact that if the commerce clause is stretched to allow total uninhibited power of the State you then must rely on the good nature of politicians to rule you with wisdom and kindness. Don't trust tem is my advice. Keep the constitution strong to protect yourself.
@redbaroniii you wrote "you then must rely on the good nature of politicians to rule you with wisdom and kindness."
who do you think you are fooling?
total uninhibited power of the state can ONLY be achieved through either a fascist dictatorship or monarchy! You see, in an elected government there are checks and balances. politicians don't rule they SERVE! That's why we call them public servants! If they get out of hand they get voted out! Get it?
@redbaroniii You seem to imply the Tea Party is comprised of a large number of Democrats. I beg to differ. A Poll was taken back in 2007 of people who identified themselves as Tea Partiers. The pollster did a follow up in 2011 and asked them some questions. This is what he found out 88% regard themselves as CHRISTIAN CONSERVATIVE REPUBLICANS! If you read what the Birch Society preaches and what the Tea Party preaches they are one in the same.
@redbaroniii Pointing out a demographic does not make me prejudice. If I said I don't want any Christian Conservatives in my party that would be prejudice and I didn't say that. I just pointed out that this is how an overwhelming number of Tea Party faithful identify themselves, which is inline with the John Birch Society.
@redbaroniii Much like a coach who has been tuned out by his players Obama has been tuned out by some Americans. It doesn't matter what he proposes they won't listen! Here is how he overcomes that. I have a feeling he will pitch his jobs plan like this "it will (slightly) reduce the deficit, create 900k to 1 million new jobs, while focusing on improving our crumbling infrastructure, eliminate redundant and unnecessary regulation, and provide tax cuts to small business...continued...
@redbaroniii ...continued read my last 8 responses by the way.
His job's plan will be very similar to the one Bill Clinton laid out. The way he overcomes his credibility issue with some voters is he has Bill Clinton vouch for and promote the plan. You personally may not like Bill but most independent voters do and they trust his judgement! This will put pressure on the GOP to do something. You see its in their best interest to do nothing because if the economy improves they lose in 2012!
@luvitluvitbaby " You personally may not like Bill " Actually he was an OK president, kind of mediocre. The best description was that Clinton was not the worst president, he was the worst person that was president. The GOP wants to help America no doubt about it, but, increased spending on another stupid stimulus should be resisted at all costs. Read that Obama spent 20 million for 14 jobs in Seattle, and 500 billion on a green plant in CA that just went belly up.
@redbaroniii you wrote "The best description was that Clinton was not the worst president, he was the worst person that was president."
Then you don't know tho much about the Presidency or Washington politics.
By the way... 22.7 million jobs in 8 years, lowest unemployment, fastest growth, crime rate dropping, balanced budget surpluses. If that's mediocre I would love to see what FANTASTIC is LOL!
@luvitluvitbaby "either one will get SMOKED in the general, " Looking at the polls and Obama's big new plan that it exactly like the one that got us in this mess, How do you see people changing their mind to vote for this hated president?
@redbaroniii you mean got us out of a mess! Things are bad but nowhere near as bad as they were in January 2009!
Austerity is not the answer. Western Europe has tried that and things have gotten worse!
This hated President? flash back to 1983 Ronald Reagan's poll numbers were LOWER and we see how that worked out! Perry and Bachmann cater to the Tea Party which has a 20% popularity rating in this country, meanwhile they have a 70% popularity among the GOP. Translation: They're un-electable!
@luvitluvitbaby "1983 Ronald Reagan's poll numbers were LOWER" But the economic numbers were great and going through the roof. Europe is one year ahead of us in the mess caused by socialist programs (they never ever work you know). They will have to adopt austerity. We do not. Who cares about the tea party, the president has lost the left, the middle, and ever Waters thinks he is a goof.
@redbaroniii You wrote "But the economic numbers were great and going through the roof."
Really, 10.7% Unemployment in January 1983 is through the roof? Keep in mind this was a full 2 years into the Reagan White House. Obama's highest unemployment was 10.2%in November 2009 in his first year in office.
The left isn't pleased with Obama but if you think they are voting for Perry or Bachmann you are high lol!
@redbaroniii You wrote "anuary 1983 is through the roof?" I said economy, did not refer to unemplyment form the Carter (the 2nd worst president) rule."
Jimmy Carter was President in January 1983? Damn I didn't know that, I always thought it was Ronald Reagan. I thought the unemployment rate was a direct indicator of how well the economy is doing with Americans. Since it's not... I guess it's safe to say our economy is BOOMING right now LOL! OBAMA 2012!!!
@redbaroniii look at my post again I noted Obama created -.2.4 million jobs NOT 2.4 million. Unlike most conservatives I will acknowledge the bad and the good. This number is awful, but has to be considered in context! The the month he was sworn in we lost 700,000 jobs! Stimulus wasn't signed till April. It slowed job loss but didn't STOP it. in "09" All in all we lost 5 million jobs in 2009. So since 2010 the President has eatin away at the number hence his dismal -2.4 million jobs created!
@luvitluvitbaby " NOT 2.4 million." Sorry, entirely my fault, just didn't see the (-) My old age eyes need some of that good old FREE Obama eye care stuff to fix them up. Didn't mean to miss quote you.
The GAO has told us that Obama lied... Obama care will cost trillions more and add it to the deficit that will flush our economy down the drain. In short Obamacare is "unsustainable" that means it won't work, no matter what. Like a paper mache rocket to fly people to the moon.... It will never work.
I was and still am ALL for Healthcare Reform. However, I don't see how the USA can justify saying they now have what is known as the AFFORDABLE Care Act!!! I have read articles and emails about people in Canada having to pay up to $1500 as a COUPLE, per year, for healthcare!! I ONLY WISH!!! I, as an INDIVIDUAL have to pay $410/MONTH for a healthcare plan that has a HIGH deductible as well as a HIGH co-insurance ($50/mth more that 2010)!!! It is killing me!! You call this affordable???
@Margpeg101 The Law doesn't go fully in effect until 2014 and The Republican controlled congress is doing everything it can to deny funding for it so it won't be implemented properly.
@luvitluvitbaby Spoken by a true commie. Guess you think that the soviets could have made their socialist medicine work "if only it was properly funded. In any event the bills costs to start up are already approved and is law. The dirty demos hid that in the bill itself. Wise up.
@redbaroniii You wrote "Spoken by a true commie. "
Let's keep the debate civil o.k. There is a big difference between socialism and communism.
First of all the current law isn't even socialism so we are argueing a mute point. A Single-Payer plan is socialism, this is a free market soulution to attain universal healthcare! That's what Richard Nixon, Orin Hatch, Bob Dole, and other prominent Conservatives called it! So unless you are ready to declare Bob Dole a Commie Quit while you're behind!
@luvitluvitbaby communism was a name used by Lenin to differentiate those that support him rather that other SOCIALISTS. Oh yes it is socialism, the government is taking over the production of goods/services. It runs the auto industry, the banks, and now medicine. Still you must admit that Obama care and his other schemes will plunge this nation into the worst depression in the history of the world. Thanks to Obama we are weaker, and poorer than ever and don't say Bush!
@redbaroniii you wrote"communism was a name used by Lenin to differentiate those that support him rather that other SOCIALISTS."
Then might I add that the Klu Klux Klan is a conservative Christian organization, so this means that all conservatives belong to the KKK.
oooh ooohh oohhh me me me me....I got a better one!! o.k o.k o.k.... I got it!!!! Al-Qaeda are right-wing conservative extremists! Soooo, this means all conservatives in the world are members of Al-Qaeda LMAO!!!!
You constantly equate having liberal ideas with being communism or something evil or bad! I was simply pointing out how absurd one could be if we used the same tactic but in the oppisite direction!
P.S. Obamacare is NOT Socialism!! It's a free market Capitalist solution to Universal Healthcare just ask Bob Dole!
@luvitluvitbaby Hell's Bell, In my opinion you are one hell-of-a-lot smarter than any Senator, especially Dole.
I don't know why people flee from the term socialist. You are what you are. If you believe that Government is there to perfect mankind, make things fair, and that history is a matter of class struggle then you are, more than likely a socialist. If you don't that belief then you are for the freedom of mankind.
@redbaroniii You wrote "I don't know why people flee from the term socialist. You are what you are."
True, but you also should consider that over the past 30 years Conservative Corperate Interest with their billions of dollars placed into various PACs have been able to influence ignorant and gullable Americans into equating everything Socialist with Fidel Castro or Josef Stalin! Nevermind that Canada, Great Brittain, Germany are Socialist States! Socialism is evil BOO! :-O
@luvitluvitbaby You are in love with single payer, why stop there? How about free medical care, and free legal representation, free transportation, raise the minimum wage, and do the fair thing; have a maximum incomejust a little higher to prevent unfairness. Add subsidized food for all, so there is no hunger, and free housing for all, end homelessness. That is socialism pure; why fool around?. You like that right? Just like the Soviets, and that worked so well. Right? If not, why not?
This lady reminds me of my first wife. What a Bitch !
redbaroniii 4 months ago
@luvitluvitbaby "As for the $475 billion price tag," No no the Internet was Al Gore and he did it on his own, Reagan developed the Internet from Military funds, The Freeway system also military funds, The railroads paid from land and not the tax payer. I give up, go ahead print all the money you want, Trillions for a corrupt healthcare system, trillions for the unions called stimulus, and trillions just for Obama to flush down the toilet. Hell's Bell nothing bad could come of that Right?
redbaroniii 4 months ago
@redbaroniii Al Gore did not invent the internet lol! Where do you think military funds come from silly, the military stork lol? They come from tax payers! The railroad was paid through taxpayers, Bottom line, this country built much of its wealth due to infrastructure! Other countries are updating their's and ours is 30 years overdue! If we want to remain competitive in the 21 st Century we NEED great infrastructure case closed!
luvitluvitbaby 4 months ago
@luvitluvitbaby " we NEED great infrastructure" Sure Of course, but not on China's money. We need to take the money from the Lousy Obama care and use it to help people live a better life.
redbaroniii 4 months ago
@redbaroniii You're calling Obamacare lousy and you don't even know what it is lol! It took me a week just to convince you it wasn't a socialized single-payer system. The GOP has spread so much misinformation most Republicans believe there are death panels and penalty of jail time if you don't adhere to the provision lol! They believe a bureaucrat is going to escort them to their doctor's appointment, sit in on the appointment and dictate! The nonsense coming from the right is mind numbing lol!
luvitluvitbaby 4 months ago
@luvitluvitbaby "railroad was paid through taxpayers," Not so, the railroads go the money from investors and earned land as they built the railroad. Tax payor money was not used
redbaroniii 4 months ago
@redbaroniii just read up on it, you were right I stand corrected, it wasn't paid for through tax dollars! It was even worse than that! It was paid for by the government HANDING OVER land to the railroad companies and allowing them to PAY for it with full with interest much later! You know what, that sounds a lot like Obama's Auto Bailout! ABRAHAM LINCOLN THE SOCIALIST LOL! All the other examples used taxpayer funds, explain that!
luvitluvitbaby 4 months ago
@luvitluvitbaby "ABRAHAM LINCOLN THE SOCIALIST LOL!" Suppressed that you would so mischaracterized Old Abe. You have a warped idea about people that resist tyranny. We have a firm political belief that there should be a strong government. Size does not matter but purpose does. We don't mind taxes/spending either, not at all. We do fight when that government uses its power to regulate our personal lives in breach of the constitution.
redbaroniii 4 months ago
@redbaroniii You wrote "Surprised that you would so mischaracterized Old Abe."
Now you see what I go through debating right-wingers, anybody can take someone's idea, twist it and distort it into something it's clearly not. Anybody can label anything they disagree with as Communism, that doesn't make the label true
Many ideas in the American Jobs Act were supported by Republicans and Democrats Liberals and Conservatives, but because so many of you want to HATE Obama you tune that part out!
luvitluvitbaby 4 months ago
@luvitluvitbaby "anybody can take someone's idea, twist it " Perhaps but you were using a term of art. Such things are very useful to organize a thought, or statement. Saying that Franco was a Fascist is truthful and accurate. In the book "1984" the Language of the State is "news-speak" which means using non defined terms to look like you are saying one thing and meaning another. The left, (right from the pages of 1984) say "investments", instead of "corrupt spending". Understand?
jayceelb 4 months ago
@jayceelb you wrote "The left, (right from the pages of 1984) say "investments", instead of "corrupt spending". Understand?"
point well stated! Right wingers tend to be more forceful so they control the debate in this country! Republicans are unapologetic while liberals tend to be pussies! Conservatives have done a great job in turning every liberal word into a 4 letter word in American politics so the left keep changing the words instead of challenging the right! I wish they'd grow a pair!
luvitluvitbaby 4 months ago
I cleared my calandar, told the cient's to go to hell and leave me alone, warmed up the big screen, made pop corn, have the cold beer handy, Damn I am ready for the GREAT JOBS SPEECH. Lets hear it for Obama !!!!!
redbaroniii 4 months ago
@redbaroniii Just got through listening to it. I think he did exactly what i thought he would do. He has a pretty good mix of Democrat and Republican ideas! $65 billion in tax cuts, a good amount of deregulation, but at the same time recognizing that this country's economic prosperity was realized in great part to our infrastructure which should have been updated 30 years ago. The guy that kicked it off with the public railroad was none other than Mr. Republican himself Abraham Lincoln!
luvitluvitbaby 4 months ago
@luvitluvitbaby "Just got through listening to it." The beer is warm the pop con untouched and the big screen is blank. My mind swims in disbelief that my president is a ,,,,, how to be polite..., a fool. $475 billions on top of a wasted trillion and all for the same old shovel ready jobs. In a few months the president will once again slap his knee and laugh at us fools saying "there weren't as many shovel ready jobs as we thought HA HA HA HA" We shall get the last laugh my friends.
redbaroniii 4 months ago
@redbaroniii First of all, did you feel the same way about Lincoln's intercontinental railroad project or Eisenhower's modern Highway system, or Ronald Reagan's development of the internet? Government played a leading road in the development and implantation of all three. Think where we would be if these project never existed. As for the $475 billion price tag, don't worry it will be trimmed to $275 billion by the time the GOP gets through with it and unlike Medicare Part D it will be paid for!
luvitluvitbaby 4 months ago
@luvitluvitbaby "As for the $475 billion price tag," No no the Internet was Al Gore and he did it on his own, Reagan developed the Internet from Military funds, The Freeway system also military funds, The railroads paid from land and not the tax payer. I give up, go ahead print all the money you want, Trillions for a corrupt healthcare system, trillions for the unions called stimulus, and trillions just for Obama to flush down the toilet. Hell's Bell nothing bad could come of that Right?
redbaroniii 4 months ago
@luvitluvitbaby "I look at, stats, figures and the reality of public policy" Thus, you don't see the big picture. You are like the engineer that Studied the problem of bearings wearing out on a conveyer belt. He came to the conclusion that if they starved the Jews down to under 90 pounds the bearings on the conveyor to the furnace would last much longer. He saw only stats and figures not the morality. Obama care is not as evil, truly, but it is evil and not within America's culture.
redbaroniii 4 months ago
Comment removed
luvitluvitbaby 4 months ago
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@redbaroniii you wrote "He saw only stats and figures not the morality. Obama care is not as evil, truly, but it is evil and not within America's culture."
I wasn't going to respond to this comment because the anology was so way off in another galaxy!
But on second thought... Obamacare is NOT EVIL, but you want to know what is?
Letting a 3 year old boy with a pre-existing condition die because his FULL-TIME EMPLOYED parents make too much and don't qualify for Medicaid!
luvitluvitbaby 4 months ago
@luvitluvitbaby "Letting a 3 year old boy with a pre-existing condition die because his FULL-TIME EMPLOYED parents make too much and don't qualify for Medicaid!" Yes that would be tragic, but I just don't believe this happens all of the time. If you, or I, know of such a child we would reach into our pockets and donate to help. Hopitals, drug compaies spend fortunes to help thos people. But it is not so common that we must bow down to Obama give him power to use force on all of us.
redbaroniii 4 months ago
@redbaroniii you wrote "Yes that would be tragic, but I just don't believe this happens all of the time."
It happens more than you think a Harvard study concluded that 44,000 Americans die each year due to a lack of Health Insurance.
It would be nice that you would help that family, but come on how much do you think a community is going to be able to chip in to help a kid with Cancer! Treatment can run over a million dollars!
luvitluvitbaby 4 months ago
@luvitluvitbaby"a Harvard study concluded" I read that but was not impressed with how they arrived at that number. It was if you died, without insurance, you could have lived with it. I beg to differ.
redbaroniii 4 months ago
@luvitluvitbaby "It would be nice that you would help that family" Charity does work, and works very efficiently. My older brother was born crippled, at 6 he wrote a letter to the Governor. The Governor called my Dad at his employment and offered to pay for three years of operations so he could walk. my brother is now over 71, walking, and a missionary in the jungles of Thailand. The Governor was a Shiner, My Dad was a Lutheran.
redbaroniii 4 months ago
@redbaroniii Charity does work, and works very efficiently. My older brother was born crippled, at 6 he wrote a letter to the Governor
That was a beautiful and inspiring story! I'm happy for your brother and your family. Charity is a wonderful thing but it is very limited. Those who benefit from it should consider themselves blessed. With that said, if charity was as efficient as you characterized it, we would'n't have 44,000 Americans die each year due to a lack of healthcare!
luvitluvitbaby 4 months ago
@luvitluvitbaby "Letting a 3 year old boy with a pre-existing condition die because his FULL-TIME EMPLOYED parents make too much and don't qualify for Medicaid!" You assume us freedom pople have no heart.. I take umbrage at that. For your information Red state give far more for charity than blue states. Obamacare will say NO to many people just like all those other developed States that you like more than the USA. I had a friend in England that died due to refusal by the Government to help.
redbaroniii 4 months ago
@redbaroniii You wrote "You assume us freedom people have no heart.."
I never said you didn't have a heart, I was simply showing you the ugly truth behind for-profit unregulated non-universal healthcare! Most people like you are oblivious to it. red states rank at the bottom when it comes to health care blue states at the top, why? You keep comparing Obamacare to Great Britain and other Single-Payer socialized universal systems, why? We have a for-profit free market universal system!
luvitluvitbaby 4 months ago
@luvitluvitbaby ZERO jobs this month !!!! Don't tell me you are going to vote for Obama. Our president is a disaster.
redbaroniii 4 months ago
@redbaroniii George W Bush 1.1 million jobs created in 8 years! George H. W. Bush 2.6 million jobs in 4 years! William J. Clinton 22.7 million jobs in 8 years Barack H. Obama -2.4 million jobs
Now you have to keep in mind that When Barack Obama came in the country was loosing 700 k jobs a month and that went on for several months in 2009! Then we had a period of jobs being added starting in early 2010 till now!
luvitluvitbaby 4 months ago
@luvitluvitbaby When will you finally see he is a terrible president? When vultures are snatching children from the arms of starving mothers on the main streets of America?you sir are a member of the few,that thinks Obama is doing great, and is handling the economy better than Bush, or even Carter for that matter. The last to buy the lie that Obama created 2.4 million jobs, yet there are more Americans out of work than ever before (the actual jobless is greater than the great depression).
redbaroniii 4 months ago
@luvitluvitbaby Using your math (you brag about your math you know) Hoover saved or created 2.4 million jobs too.
redbaroniii 4 months ago
@redbaroniii You wrote Using your math (you brag about your math you know) Hoover saved or created 2.4 million jobs too."
Yeah his job numbers look pretty bad but looks can be deceiving. Think about it, his first year in office he walked into an economic tsunami! He took over at a time when the economy was loosing 700k a month, by the time 2009 was over we had LOST 5 MILLION JOBS So he started 5 MILLION jobs in the hole! He has had 18 straight months of positive job numbers till now!
luvitluvitbaby 4 months ago
@luvitluvitbaby Reagan waked into a bigger mess caused by the Lefty Carter and had us looking great in just under two years. It looks like the wheels are coming of the Obama band wagon. Now we are going to get one of those Spend, Spend, and new program speeches, yuck ! I am going to watch the football game. How can you think more of the same is going to make thing better?
redbaroniii 4 months ago
@redbaroniii you wrote "Reagan waked into a bigger mess caused by the Lefty Carter and had us looking great in just under two years."
Wow what universe were you living in? I was just a little boy at the time, but I do have books. High inflation predated the Carter years and things got considerably worse under Reagan before they got better! Reagan inherited 7.5% unemployment by December 1982 it was 10.8% (higher than Obama). The difference was the folks in Washington were adults!
luvitluvitbaby 4 months ago
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@luvitluvitbaby "The difference was the folks in Washington were adults! " Can't agree more the differance was the people in Washington at that time, they were Republicans.
redbaroniii 4 months ago
@redbaroniii ...continued.... and for the record, Reagan did not walk into anything close to what Obama walked into. In 1981 the country wasn't loosing 700k jobs a month. Bank lending wasn't frozen, our auto industry about to vanish. Reagan was not staring down the barrel of a 10 trillion dollar debt nor a 1.2 trillion dollar deficit that was triple the previous year! He wasn't fighting two wars one of which was waged on false pretense and the other badly mismanaged since its inception. C'mon!!
luvitluvitbaby 4 months ago
@luvitluvitbaby "Reagan did not walk into anything close" you are right it was worse for Reagan, inflation and stagflation of Carter, at 28% interest nobody, but nobody could get a loan. As to the debt that you think is ALL Bush's fault, just answer me this, What President increased the debt more than any other? Bingo! Obama! Even if there were no wars it would be a drop in the bucket. Obama said he would end those wars pronto, he lied. We told you Obamacare was a job killer.you never learn.
redbaroniii 4 months ago
@redbaroniii you wrote "Reagan did not walk into anything close" you are right it was worse for Reagan, inflation and stagflation of Carter, at 28% "
You really of Nixon right? That's where it started! He was even considering price controls lol! I could just imagine what the right would say if Obama even pondered the thought lol!
Nobody could get a loan when Obama took over. Why do you think Chrysler and GM couldn't file a normal chapter 11? Lending was frozen!
luvitluvitbaby 4 months ago
@luvitluvitbaby "Nixon.... That's where it started" For every Democrat presidential failure you blame a Repiubican. This is a sickness that it is the other guy's fault. Nixon did OK and he was the better president than LBJ when I was fighting/killing commies. Now yoou are going to tell me Carter was wonderful? BRAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA,.
jayceelb 4 months ago
@jayceelb You wrote "Nixon.... That's where it started""
Um yes! I don't have to make shit up in order to support my position. Richard Nixon was dealing with high inflation too! He even attempted to place price controls on goods and services. Picture Obama trying to do that today and what the reaction would be from the right if you will. Inflation plagued most of the 70's not just Carter's time! Oh by the way, Carter lost because of the Iran hostage situation not because of the economy!
luvitluvitbaby 4 months ago
You wrote "Nixon did OK and he was the better president than LBJ when I was fighting/killing commies." Nixon was a better President in my opinion, especially on foreign policy! Richard Nixon is a throwback to when Republicans actually enbraced intelect! Nixon's downfall was that he didn't throw his men under the bus when he found out that they broke into the Watergate Hotel after the fact! I don't like LBJ because he is the reason 44,000 soilders lost their lives for a LIE!!!!!
luvitluvitbaby 4 months ago
@jayceelb Over the past couple of years I noticed how GOP politicians would declare the Stimulus a total and utter failure and that it hasn't created any jobs! If that's your opinion I don't agree, but I respect it. What I don't respect are those same politicians requesting stimulus funds going home to their districts taking pictures with locals while standing in front of HUGE mock checks! They take credit for jobs the stimulus created and then blast it on national t.v. continued.....
luvitluvitbaby 4 months ago
@luvitluvitbaby We have found the common ground hallulah.
jayceelb 4 months ago
@redbaroniii You keep talking about the national debt being high, but before him Obama, Bush Jr. held the record and before him Reagan. Funny, I never heard much outrage from the right on this. I recall you guys saying something to the effect of "deficits don't matter" lol! What you don't get is that just because you have high debt doesn't mean its a result of new spending! A lot of this debt is due to a severe drop in tax revenue because so many folks are out of work on unemployment.
luvitluvitbaby 4 months ago
@luvitluvitbaby " I never heard much outrage from the right " You were tone deaf like Obama. At the time there was great outrage. That was the start of the Tea party, which BTW is more than half former Democrats!
jayceelb 4 months ago
@redbaroniii read my previous post below this one calling Obama Hoover is a little unfair. It would be like us watching a football game and the first half Jay Cutler (GWBush) throws 3 for 33 for 8 interceptions 0 touchdowns and 27 yards passing and his team is losing 63-0. In the second half they change quarterbacks and bring in Michael Vick (Barack Obama) who throws 17 for 27 for 169 yards 2 touchdowns 0 interceptions and the score is 70-14. would you say this is Vick's loss?
luvitluvitbaby 4 months ago
@luvitluvitbaby " like us watching a football game " I do like the football idea and will be watching it rather than our president going on and on about we need to get further in debt, have more job killing programs, and give more power to him. Yuck. You must admit that it looks likely that Obama's policy and Obamacare will drive us into a bigger depression that Hoover's.
redbaroniii 4 months ago
@redbaroniii I love how Republicans rave against spending now lol! Every time this country has gone into recession since the Great Depression it has inacted spending increases, even Reagan got out of his recession increasing military spending. The Republicans know the only way out of this mess is to spend and that is precisely why they are dead set against it! They know if the economy improves they can't win the White House back in 2012! They rather hurt the country than lose! what a shame...
luvitluvitbaby 4 months ago
@luvitluvitbaby "I love how Republicans" You are like my children, when one is caught doing the wrong thing He/she will say the other child did it too. Who the hell care what the other guy did? Do you think for one second that more of Obama policy is going to save the day when he has goofed up so badly? Again we told you that Obama care would be a job killer and IT IS. So you want more of this president's lousy policies? You know he is finished..
jayceelb 4 months ago
@jayceelb You wrote "Again we told you that Obama care would be a job killer and IT IS."
There is NO creditble source that can back you up on that LOL! STOP listening to Michele Bachmann, your IQ will drop just listening to her lol. Even Politifact a non-partisan fact checker, says that claim is FALSE! Try again LMAO!
luvitluvitbaby 4 months ago
@luvitluvitbaby ...continued Jonathan Alter came up with a brilliant strategy to stop this GOP hypocrisy from happening. He said he would advise the President to warn GOP members that if they vote against his infrastructure proposals and actively blast the plan, when it comes down to dolling out the funds for infrastructure he will make sure those districts get zero dollars! It's hardball, but I would certainly do it!
luvitluvitbaby 4 months ago
@luvitluvitbaby " Jonathan Alter "
He is a noted crackpot, that cares more for politics than the people. Gee I thing you said that about me. In any event, you have not told me about the "Commerce Clause" argument of our AG that the Federal Government should not have any impediment to do anything it wants under that clause. Upholding Obamacare does this. Do you think the Feds should be able to regulate every aspect of your personal life? Please answer.
jayceelb 4 months ago
@jayceelb o.k. a senior editor of Newsweek is a crackpot lol! So is it o.k. if I call William Kristol who is the founder and editor of the Weekly Standard a crackpot, because I really don't agree with his politics; that being the criteria and all?
The commerce clause has been upheld in a number of cases. If the Supreme Court follows legal precedent it will be upheld.
I don't think politicians will abuse the clause, they haven't yet and there would be no logical reason for them to start.
luvitluvitbaby 4 months ago
@luvitluvitbaby "The commerce clause has been upheld " You Obviously don't see the danger, right now Obama claims he can force all of us to buy a product that he approves at a price approved by him. That is abuse plain and simple, never been done before ever. We say it is abuse, you say it is not, but it the Presidents of the future decide something that you think is an abuse you are no longer protected by the constitution. Do you like NOT being protected by the constitution?
jayceelb 4 months ago
@jayceelb As I am writing this I just read the details of the individual mandate! It states you MUST buy health insurance or face an annual fine of $695 . Correct me if I'm wrong but that works out to a monthly cost of $57.92 lol!
So let me get this straight...If I get an insurance qoute for a monthly premium of $755.83 a month I can say screw that and pay the fine? hmmmm I wonder which one I'll pick?
....continued
luvitluvitbaby 4 months ago
@luvitluvitbaby "Correct me if I'm wrong" So you are saying that now, right now, it is only a little problem and I should ignore it. Can you absolutely guarantee me that at no time in the future will the Government raise the penalty and never, ever jail a person? The point is: do you believe that the State should have the absolute power to regulate any part of your life, even if they are radical Republicans? Yes, or No? Remember Dems and Obama are going to get clobbered next Nov.
redbaroniii 4 months ago
@luvitluvitbaby "cost of $57.92 lol!" -You forget, I am not a conveyor belt type engineer that has no morals. I believe deeply in freedom. I will make my own arrangements for my health, and I am strong enough to take what life gives me. It is a wonderful, exciting, rewarding way to live compared to being a slave to the freeloaders, and the State. I know what happens when you give the State the power to regulate your life without the constitution to protect you.
redbaroniii 4 months ago
@redbaroniii You wrote "I believe deeply in freedom. I will make my own arrangements for my health,"
Do you carry health insurance now? if yes, than you can keep doing what you've been doing, not much will change for you other than the fact that your coverage is guaranteed now.
From our conversation I gather that you are either 65 or nearing it. If so this really doesn't apply to you because you have Medicare and the VA.
luvitluvitbaby 4 months ago
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luvitluvitbaby 4 months ago
@luvitluvitbaby "wake up!" Again. you are making a claim that Obama care does nothing new. You are very wrong, among many bad things it puts a new Trillion dollar layer of very expensive bureaucrats with unlimited power to Force businesses, and individuals to comply with whatever they think is best for themselves. Who the heck said I support the broken, corrupt and bankrupt medicare/medicaid system?
redbaroniii 4 months ago
@redbaroniii So lets see.... you want to get rid of Medicare, Medicaid and if someone gets shot let them bleed to death in the street unless they can whip out a credit card and pay the 911 dispatcher over the telephone even if they're unconscious lol!
You gotta wonderful plan! You should run or office LMAO!
luvitluvitbaby 4 months ago
@luvitluvitbaby "someone gets shot let them bleed to death in the street" You debate by extreme, a childish method, and never convincing. Did you know that within a life time America Didn't have Medicare/medicaid? Did you know things went well? Did you know that they didn't enact these programs because people were bleeding to death in the streets? Did you know that? Do you know anything?
redbaroniii 4 months ago
@redbaroniii you wrote "Did you know that within a life time America Didn't have Medicare/medicaid?"
sure did! I also know that the reason Medicare was passed was because seniors made up over 30% of the population living under poverty level at the time. There was a real outcry for this to STOP and it did! I dare you to run for public office on a platform of abolishing Medicare and see what seniors do to you lol! They are the most consistent voter block too... I dare you!!!
luvitluvitbaby 4 months ago
@luvitluvitbaby "over 30% of the population living under poverty level " Tricky language you are using, The poverty line has moved up a lot, almost half of them own homes, or use to before Obama ruined the economy. Almost all own a car, TV (Color big screen). and are overweight. My family would today be considered in poverty but we were never poor. In any event it was the attorneys, and regulations that make insurance too costly.
redbaroniii 4 months ago
@redbaroniii you wrote "over 30% of the population living under poverty level " Tricky language you are using, "
I wasn't talking about today , I was talking about 1965 when Medicare was enacted that's why there was a push for it! Thanks for proving my point since it was enacted condition for seniors have greatly improved! You are absolutely right!
luvitluvitbaby 4 months ago
@redbaroniii You wrote "You debate by extreme, a childish method, and never convincing."
I'm just trying to figure out where you stand! You say you think its unfair to have an individual mandate for everyone who can afford it, to carry their own insurance, yet you imply its also an injustice to have Hospitals treat someone in an emergency regardless of their ability to pay! The only alternative is too ban both practices and have people dying in the streets. How is my argument childish?
luvitluvitbaby 4 months ago
@luvitluvitbaby "trying to figure out where you stand!" I have no problem with free people getting together and helping their fellow man, I encourage it. Even if Corporations want to help with the approval of their stock holders fine, great. I don't want the State to use force on my fellow citizens. I will stand with my fellow citizen against Obama oppression. Now do you understand?
redbaroniii 4 months ago
@redbaroniii but where do you stand on the law. Do you want to see hospitals turn folks away even if its a medical emergency if they are unable to pay?
luvitluvitbaby 4 months ago
@luvitluvitbaby "but where do you stand on the law." You don't need a law to force a community to do what is needed. Now you must have faith, faith in the power of free people. Americans will get together and figure a way to take care of its problems. Not by the State Forcing its way but by civil society. Until the State took over the function of civil society it was working fine and without the huge expense of Obamacare. You have more faith in the State than your fellow citizen, .
redbaroniii 4 months ago
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@redbaroniii You wrote "You don't need a law to force a community to do what is needed." So then I assume you are for repeal of the provision that mandates Hospitals MUST treat you in an emergency regardless of your ability to pay and of Obamacare!
The end result would literally be people dying in the streets!
luvitluvitbaby 4 months ago
@redbaroniii you wrote "You don't need a law to force a community to do what is needed."
You most certainly do, your position is not only on the fringe, but not based in reality. If we eliminate all laws and assumed that free people would govern themselves accordingly we would have total chaos!
This applies to both criminal and civil order.
luvitluvitbaby 4 months ago
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@luvitluvitbaby " If we eliminate all laws " I didn't say that nor believe that. You lied about what I said or you just don't like what I said, either way it is unfair of you to do that. Of course laws are needed to protect people from each other. you just don't see the difference between a free society that made America great, and State Force that will ruin it.
redbaroniii 4 months ago
@luvitluvitbaby "only on the fringe, but not based in reality. " How about based on approximately 200 years of American history? This one you will lose.
redbaroniii 4 months ago
@luvitluvitbaby " assumed that free people would govern themselves " You have a great lawyer that will disagree with you that the proposition of self governing cannot stand, as in "of the people, by the people, for the people". You are just flat wrong. Free people can govern themselves, and don't need the State to run their personal lives..
redbaroniii 4 months ago
@redbaroniii you wrote" Free people can govern themselves, and don't need the State to run their personal lives.."
You are starting to question my intelligence? I have to say your statements have been rather ambiguous. It sounds like you are advocating no laws or government involvement because you say free people can govern themselves. I apologize if I'm mischaracterizing this. I'm just trying figure out how much authority you think the government should have if any at all.
luvitluvitbaby 4 months ago
@redbaroniii you wrote" Free people can govern themselves, and don't need the State to run their personal lives.."
You are starting to question my intelligence? I have to say your statements have been rather ambiguous. It sounds like you are advocating no laws or government involvement because you say free people can govern themselves. I apologize if I'm mischaracterizing this. I'm just trying figure out how much authority you think the government should have if any at all.
luvitluvitbaby 4 months ago
@luvitluvitbaby "how much authority you think the government should have 'The Government should protect its citizens, and there property from force and fraud of others, and nations. That it does best. Toothpicks for the poor programs are best served by civil organizations. Parking, foreign aid, Statue in the park, can be debated that debate is call politics. Running the health care of the individual is not a Government function, and should be left to the people in a fee-enterprise system.
redbaroniii 4 months ago
@luvitluvitbaby "where do you stand" The leftists always leave a trail of destruction, poverty, hopelessness, and often blood. Are you proud of the way your party has handle our major cities, all of which are absolute failures economically, becoming homes of the poor and unemployed? Take Detroit, compare pictures of it and Nagasaki after the bomb. they look the same. Shame on the democrats. They have hit our cities like atom bombs. Now let us see you blame others as always you do.
redbaroniii 4 months ago
@redbaroniii you wrote "Take Detroit, compare pictures of it and Nagasaki after the bomb. "
You think that was all on Democrats? Detroit became that way due to NAFTA and other unfair trade deals! Factories shut down and unions busted. There was a time when you could make a pretty good living in this country with just a high school Diploma that isn't so any more.This global economy demands highly skilled workers which takes me into my next comment....continued......
luvitluvitbaby 4 months ago
@redbaroniii....continued Bill Clinton pointed out that there were about 2 million jobs out there unfilled simply because there are NO workers with the skill set to fill them. He proposed that government partner with business allowing them to train the workers they need at no cost to the business. These businesses can fill the position and people go back to work. President Obama has this in his plan too I believe. what do you think?
luvitluvitbaby 4 months ago
@luvitluvitbaby "partner with business allowing them to train the workers they need at no cost to the business" I would not go to the barricade against this program, as long as the real costs are not in addition to our present budget. That is, as long as funds are diverted from other failed programs, or startup funding for Obama care then it is OK by me. But any new funding seems very harmful and should be opposed.
redbaroniii 4 months ago
@redbaroniii You wrote "I would not go to the barricade against this program, as long as the real costs are not in addition to our present budget."
You can bet your bottom dollar that the President's proposal will be deficit neutral, in fact it is likely to reduce the deficit over time. He knows he could never get a bill passed that added to the deficit, and this time around it's really not necessary. 2 1/2 years ago we were in economic cardiac arrest so special measures had to be taken.
luvitluvitbaby 4 months ago
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@redbaroniii You wrote "I would not go to the barricade against this program, as long as the real costs are not in addition to our present budget."
You can bet your bottom dollar that the President's proposal will be deficit neutral, in fact it is likely to reduce the deficit over time. He knows he could never get a bill passed that added to the deficit, and this time around it's really not necessary. 2 1/2 years ago we were in economic cardiac arrest so special measures had to be taken.
luvitluvitbaby 4 months ago
@luvitluvitbaby "and you picked up the tab for Americans who used the ER" And you say the solution for this is to make it even more unfair. You are a broken record; how many times must I say we should not pay for freeloaders?
redbaroniii 4 months ago
@redbaroniii You wrote "And you say the solution for this is to make it even more unfair."
How is insisting that freeloaders who can afford to pay for their own care instead of you paying or it making it more unfair?
How is giving a middle class family that has someone with a pre-existing condition the freedom to BUY their own healthcare insurance on the FREE MARKET FOR-PROFIT healthcare SYSTEM instead of having you pay for their care when they enter the ER somehow more unfair? explain.
luvitluvitbaby 4 months ago
@redbaroniii You wrote "It is a wonderful, exciting, rewarding way to live compared to being a slave to the freeloaders"
How would you know? Before Obamacare you still paid taxes that support Medicare (Healthcare for the elderly) Medicaid (Healthcare for the poor) and you picked up the tab for Americans who used the ER for medical attention and did not pay either because they were unable to or because they didn't feel like it.
Now you will just pay for Medicaid and Medicare wake up!
luvitluvitbaby 4 months ago
@luvitluvitbaby "How would you know?" I fought for freedom, lived under the rule of leftists, and am an eye witness to the evil they do to the soul of mankind.
redbaroniii 4 months ago
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luvitluvitbaby 4 months ago
@jayceelb ....continued the fine is so weak that most folks won't buy insurance electing to simply pay the fine until they get sick. This puts private insurance at a grave disadvantage and will surely drive them out of business! Then guess who steps in to fill their place lol!
As for your point concerning the commerce clause. Unless you are talking about us switching to a dictatorship your premise is unfounded. Why would any elected official purposely enact a law that would get him booted out?
luvitluvitbaby 4 months ago
@luvitluvitbaby "Then guess who steps in to fill their place" It will be dummies like you to pay for the ever increasing freeloaders.
redbaroniii 4 months ago
@luvitluvitbaby "Why would any elected official purposely enact a law that would get him booted out?" That is a good question, and I think Obama just did. You know he is toast, and other than you nobody is going to vote for him.
redbaroniii 4 months ago
@redbaroniii you wrote "You know he is toast, and other than you nobody is going to vote for him."
I strongly disagree and here's why, the Republicans made a tactical error when they opted after the 2008 election to demonize and make Obama meet his waterloo "NO COMPROMISE". It helped them win the house in the short term 2010, but now they have a serious problem! Continued.....
luvitluvitbaby 4 months ago
@luvitluvitbaby "publicans made a tactical error" I don't think so. Obama made the big mistake. He went against the advice of the Republicans, would only listen to those that first agreed with his crazy plan. The people never, ever supported the nutty health bill, still don't by large margins. He and he alone is now to be blamed as the wheels come off. The Republicans as bad as they are supported the people and have been rewarded. Look at the polls for God' sake.
redbaroniii 4 months ago
@redbaroniii you wrote " I don't think so. Obama made the big mistake. He went against the advice of the Republicans, " First off Obama went against everyone in his administration who told him not to tackle healthcare!
Listen to the GOP? What??? It's their bill! The individual mandate provision you call unconstitutional was placed in the bill by (R) Chuck Grassely. Then he raved against it lol! How's that for rational?
The bill is a mirror image of GOP hopeful Mitt Romney's plan! Just stop
luvitluvitbaby 4 months ago
@luvitluvitbaby "January 1983 is through the roof?" I really didn't know that, gee that makes him a bigger dolt than I thought. In fact YOU may have made a big mistake by not listening to the Republicans. Wilson taught us that going against the people, and not listening to opposition, and failing to make compromises leads to failure. You and Obama committed the worst political sin by not seeking bi-partisan support.
redbaroniii 4 months ago
@redbaroniii You wrote "in fact YOU may have made a big mistake by not listening to the Republicans."
Why would he go along with the Republicans when they purposely oppose everything he is for even i they agree with it?
Boehner got 98% of what he wanted in the debt ceiling negotiations and they still had to be pushed and prodded to except that deal! So let me get this straight, the barometer for compromise is giving the GOP everything they ask for? LOL you're funny!
luvitluvitbaby 4 months ago
@luvitluvitbaby "Why would he go along with the Republicans when they purposely oppose everything he is for even i they agree with it?" You said the Rep. were contrary, yet you now admit it was the president that cut them off. Truth comes out; it is Obama that is willfully going it alone. Such cheek.
redbaroniii 4 months ago
@redbaroniii what did he go alone on?
luvitluvitbaby 4 months ago
@redbaroniii So you honestly believe Republicans have tried to work with this President in good faith?
Let' see... the GOP propose cap and trade Obama says he's for it, GOP says their against it!
GOP propose Obamacare Obama say he likes it now the GOP calls it Marxism
GOP propose the DREAM ACT Obama Says he likes it Now the GOP hates it!
GOP Proposes Payroll TAX CUT Holiday Obama likes it GOP says no extention
yeah ...Republicans have tried really hard to work with this President ROFLMAO!
luvitluvitbaby 4 months ago
@luvitluvitbaby "Republicans have tried to work with this President " Thank you for listing each of Obama failures to lead. Leadership is more than TelePrompTer speeches, name calling, and blaming Bush. If you are a leader you get all of the team together and get them to work together Reagan had democrats to work with and he got his programs through. Tip Oneal was a lot tougher than any Rep. leader today. The President is only the leader of , as he said, "his base," not the rest of us.
redbaroniii 4 months ago
@redbaroniii You wrote"Thank you for listing each of Obama failures to lead. "
All of his "failures" as you characterize it, were Republican ideas that they turned against because they found out Obama supported them lol! Reagan worked with ADULTS in congress. I don't recall people running around saying I hope he fails in 1981 or the majority leader proclaiming "my NUMBER 1 GOAL is to make sure Reagan is a one term President!"
If you got any quotes to the contrary I'd like to hear them!
luvitluvitbaby 4 months ago
@luvitluvitbaby " Republican ideas that they turned against " Sorry I can only go so far, I just flat out don't believe that all these ideas were totally embraced by the entire Republican party. Nope just don't think so. You never answered me, do you believe that the State has the right to regulate every aspect of your live that they want to? If not then where in the constitution is that protection?
redbaroniii 4 months ago
@redbaroniii You wrote "do you believe that the State has the right to regulate every aspect of your live that they want to?"
Hell NO, but I don't think anyone is pushing for that. I would hope you don't believe in anarchy but I have to admit I'm starting to have my doubts since you believe we don't need laws and people can just govern themselves.
luvitluvitbaby 4 months ago
@redbaroniii You wrote "do you believe that the State has the right to regulate every aspect of your live that they want to?"
Hell NO, but I don't think anyone is pushing for that. I would hope you don't believe in anarchy but I have to admit I'm starting to have my doubts since you believe we don't need laws and people can just govern themselves.
luvitluvitbaby 4 months ago
@luvitluvitbaby "Hell NO, but I don't think anyone is pushing for that" Not now but If the extreme right that you hate takes over they can have carte blanch to do as they will. Even I fear that. You must think of the future. My contacts tell me one of the lady SC Justices is worried about the commerce clause. Thinks it gives way too much power to any future President, and may vote Obama care down just to keep the right from running wild.
redbaroniii 4 months ago
@redbaroniii You wrote " Not now but If the extreme right that you hate takes over they can have carte blanch to do as they will. Even I fear that. "
look...unless we have a military coup and a Fidel Castro-like character seizes power I don't think you have anything to worry about lol! Think about it...If I ran for public office and somehow pushed for and implemented a law that says we should release all sex offenders from prison ASAP, how many people would vote for me next election?
luvitluvitbaby 4 months ago
@luvitluvitbaby "you believe we don't need laws " As I have said before the rule of law is one of those things that I fraught for, really love it and could not make my living without it. None the less, you keep saying that I do not believe in the rule of law, I am starting to doubt your intelligence. You do know the difference between 'rule of law' and 'anarchy'? Don't you? Perhaps you should look up the terms and educate yourself.
redbaroniii 4 months ago
@luvitluvitbaby " "my NUMBER 1 GOAL is to make sure Reagan is a one term President!" You are right they didn't say that, they said much worse. They claimed that he was senile, stupid, illiterate, uneducated, and a fool. And that was just what the major media said, what the Democrats said was far worse. Claimed those that support him were violent Nazi hayseed redneck racist hicks. Hey just like you guys call any body that disagrees with Obama.
redbaroniii 4 months ago
@redbaroniii they may have said he was senile or even stupid, but Nazi? That's one I haven't heard. I expect folks to criticize the President and name call, but the level that Obama has endured is unprecedented. The way they made fun of Reagan was the same way they made fun of Ross Perot Dan Quayle or Bill Clinton. Remember Reagan appealed to Democrats too (Reagan Democrats) With Obama it's an insidious hatred I've never seen before. The right tries to make him into a foreign enemy!
luvitluvitbaby 4 months ago
@luvitluvitbaby "With Obama it's an insidious hatred I've never seen before" Don't think so. The most savaged was Lincoln, the Bush (you remember the pictures of Bush as monkey, ya don't see those of Obama). Except for a few nut jobs on the extreme, Obama has enjoyed the slavish adoration of the traditional media. Some popular news people get "tingles up their leg" whenever Obama speaks. No my friend Obama has got it good, Anyone disagrees with him are branded racists for heavens sake.
redbaroniii 4 months ago
@redbaroniii you wrote "Anyone disagrees with him are branded racists for heavens sake." Not really, the GOP has done an excellent job of sounding the alarm on the race card! If you accuse someone on the right of being racist you get accused of playing the race card. As for Bush, I seem to recall after 9/11 if you dare disagree with this President on any level between 2001-2007 you were automatically labeled un-American and accused of giving aid and comfort to our enemies!
luvitluvitbaby 4 months ago
@luvitluvitbaby All of his "failures" I know a few things about leadership, saw good ones and bad. Obama is one of the worst leaders. He leads from behind not from the front. He breaks the record on the use of the word "I". He calls his opponents enemies, and says they should sit in the back of the bus, then wonders why they don't jump when he tells them to. He eats before his troops, first to sleep the last to the office. He remains on vacation, we wait for his plan
redbaroniii 4 months ago
@redbaroniii Great diversion by the way, I love your non-answer to the fact that all Obama's so-called failures were not even his ideas, but rather the GOP's! He just signed on to them and they rejected them after the fact for political gain lol! Anyway, I think he has been the most effective leader we have had in quite a long time and by the end of his second term he will go down as one of our greatest Presidents EVER! Mark my words!
luvitluvitbaby 4 months ago
@luvitluvitbaby "Mark my words!" Your words are duly marked in my book of remembrances. With india ink no less.
redbaroniii 4 months ago
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@redbaroniii "Obama's so-called failures were not even his ideas" So I take it that you don't think Obama is bright enough to think up these schemes? I think I agree with you he is not that bright at all.
redbaroniii 4 months ago
@redbaroniii you wrote "So I take it that you don't think Obama is bright enough to think up these schemes?"
I never questioned his intelligence, my goodness the man graduated magna cum laude from Harvard Law School. This shouldn't be a debate. I don't agree with Richard Nixon's politics, but there was no denying the man's brilliance!
As for it not being his schemes, you're right they were not his ideas origanally. They were GOP ideas, they only abandoned them once Obama co-opted them lol!
luvitluvitbaby 4 months ago
@luvitluvitbaby "Obama is bright enough " yes he is smart and way too left to be president of America.
redbaroniii 4 months ago
@redbaroniii was Ronald Reagan to far left? Because Obama is to the right of Reagan!
luvitluvitbaby 4 months ago
The Republicans have tact themselves so far to the right that now they are pushing extreme candidates. In any normal election cycle the GOP front runners should be Mitt Romney or Jon Huntsman! They could beat Obama in a general election. Instead they have Perry and Bachmann! Perry is going to be haunted by his record and book he wrote just 9 months ago and Bachmann's gaffs and false statements are too many in number to overcome, not to mention her positions are wacko to put it mildly lol!
luvitluvitbaby 4 months ago
@luvitluvitbaby " Republicans have tact themselves so far to the right" From where you see it Stalin would seem a radical righist. Romney was the wrong Morman, Hatch would have been better. Perry is OK, the rest I have to wait to see how they run. Don't get me started with the gaffs of our president, and how many states are there?.
redbaroniii 4 months ago
@redbaroniii You wrote"From where you see it Stalin would seem a radical rightist."
LOL you're funny!! but seriously, how would Orin Hatch be better.? He and Bob Dole co-sponsored Obamacare 16 years before Obama! In your book that makes him a red loving COMMIE! Rick Perry? Oh please... he's paid puppet for corperate interest! Bet you didn't know he supported HillaryCare which is 10 times more liberal than Obamacare LMAO! So...you have just admitted to supporting self avowed GOP Marxists LOL!
luvitluvitbaby 4 months ago
@luvitluvitbaby " how would Orin Hatch be better.?" I met Sen. Hatch and he seems like a good guy. No doubt I may be the only person that agrees 100 % with me. I am not adverse to supporting the lesser of two evils. Voted for McCain. We were shot down a year apart while flying the same type aircraft (A4 Skyhawk), I went into the drink and was back on the ship after 4 hours. But the thing is; we Naval Aviators would have died for each other, and that is one hell-of-a-bond.
redbaroniii 4 months ago
@luvitluvitbaby " how would Orin Hatch be better.?" I met Sen. Hatch and he seems like a good guy. No doubt I may be the only person that agrees 100 % with me, however, I am not adverse to supporting the lesser of two evils. Voted for McCain. We were shot down a year apart while flying the same type aircraft (A4 Skyhawk), I went into the drink and was back on the ship after 4 hours. But the thing is; we Naval Aviators would have died for each other, and that is one hell-of-a-bond.
redbaroniii 4 months ago
@redbaroniii Orin Hatch is a Marxist! He supported Obamacare before Obama! So again how can you support this man?
luvitluvitbaby 4 months ago
@redbaroniii Just take a step back and take off your partisan hat for a moment. If I told you the Democrats were going to nominate Louis Farrakhan or Nancy Pelosi to run on the party ticket you would say we were crazy, they could never win.
By moving the GOP so far to the right this is what happened! To put it in perspective Ronald Reagan would not get the nomination in today's GOP! He is too liberal! That's a problem GOP leaders didn't calculate when they courted the Tea party!
luvitluvitbaby 4 months ago
@luvitluvitbaby "the Democrats were going to nominate Louis Farrakhan or Nancy Pelosi " Obama is just as left as Pelosi, and let you be the jusge, our attorney general has said he will not enforce hate crimes against whites. Farrakhan is happy that the attorney general is doing his bidding. Obama is as bad as those two, don't you think so?
redbaroniii 4 months ago
@redbaroniii You're right Nancy Pelosi is as left win g as Richard Nixon and Ronald Reagan and Louis Farrakhan were best buds!
luvitluvitbaby 4 months ago
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@luvitluvitbaby "Nancy Pelosi is as left win g" Really, do you approve of our attorney general discriminating on enforcing hate laws based on the color of a person's skin?
redbaroniii 4 months ago
@redbaroniii ....Continued.....Obama is a center-right Republican in any other era of American Politics. In order to make him appear leftist, the GOP had to tack far to the right. The base of the Republican party is made up of folks who share the same ideology as the John Birch Society. Though this group has existed for decades they were a small number within the GOP until recently. Whether its Perry or Bachmann, either one will get SMOKED in the general, even with a bad economy!
luvitluvitbaby 4 months ago
@luvitluvitbaby "same ideology as the John Birch Societ" Nope not even close. The tea party is mostly working, (until Obama screwed up the economy now they are victims of the Democrats) democrats that are upset that their party has embraced total government control, central planning and crazy job killing health plans. The john birch folks are long gone. That is like me saying the most of the Democrat party is Marxist. Are they?
redbaroniii 4 months ago
@redbaroniii " Unless you are talking about us switching to a dictatorship your premise is unfounded." You are very blind to the fact that if the commerce clause is stretched to allow total uninhibited power of the State you then must rely on the good nature of politicians to rule you with wisdom and kindness. Don't trust tem is my advice. Keep the constitution strong to protect yourself.
redbaroniii 4 months ago
@redbaroniii you wrote "you then must rely on the good nature of politicians to rule you with wisdom and kindness."
who do you think you are fooling?
total uninhibited power of the state can ONLY be achieved through either a fascist dictatorship or monarchy! You see, in an elected government there are checks and balances. politicians don't rule they SERVE! That's why we call them public servants! If they get out of hand they get voted out! Get it?
luvitluvitbaby 4 months ago
@redbaroniii You seem to imply the Tea Party is comprised of a large number of Democrats. I beg to differ. A Poll was taken back in 2007 of people who identified themselves as Tea Partiers. The pollster did a follow up in 2011 and asked them some questions. This is what he found out 88% regard themselves as CHRISTIAN CONSERVATIVE REPUBLICANS! If you read what the Birch Society preaches and what the Tea Party preaches they are one in the same.
luvitluvitbaby 4 months ago
@luvitluvitbaby "CHRISTIAN CONSERVATIVE REPUBLICANS!" I thought the left did away with religious prejudice?
redbaroniii 4 months ago
@redbaroniii Pointing out a demographic does not make me prejudice. If I said I don't want any Christian Conservatives in my party that would be prejudice and I didn't say that. I just pointed out that this is how an overwhelming number of Tea Party faithful identify themselves, which is inline with the John Birch Society.
luvitluvitbaby 4 months ago
@luvitluvitbaby "does not make me prejudice" Of course you didn't mean that, but are muslim conservatives OK in your party?
redbaroniii 4 months ago
@redbaroniii Much like a coach who has been tuned out by his players Obama has been tuned out by some Americans. It doesn't matter what he proposes they won't listen! Here is how he overcomes that. I have a feeling he will pitch his jobs plan like this "it will (slightly) reduce the deficit, create 900k to 1 million new jobs, while focusing on improving our crumbling infrastructure, eliminate redundant and unnecessary regulation, and provide tax cuts to small business...continued...
luvitluvitbaby 4 months ago
@redbaroniii ...continued read my last 8 responses by the way.
His job's plan will be very similar to the one Bill Clinton laid out. The way he overcomes his credibility issue with some voters is he has Bill Clinton vouch for and promote the plan. You personally may not like Bill but most independent voters do and they trust his judgement! This will put pressure on the GOP to do something. You see its in their best interest to do nothing because if the economy improves they lose in 2012!
luvitluvitbaby 4 months ago
@luvitluvitbaby " You personally may not like Bill " Actually he was an OK president, kind of mediocre. The best description was that Clinton was not the worst president, he was the worst person that was president. The GOP wants to help America no doubt about it, but, increased spending on another stupid stimulus should be resisted at all costs. Read that Obama spent 20 million for 14 jobs in Seattle, and 500 billion on a green plant in CA that just went belly up.
redbaroniii 4 months ago
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@redbaroniii you wrote "The best description was that Clinton was not the worst president, he was the worst person that was president."
Then you don't know tho much about the Presidency or Washington politics.
By the way... 22.7 million jobs in 8 years, lowest unemployment, fastest growth, crime rate dropping, balanced budget surpluses. If that's mediocre I would love to see what FANTASTIC is LOL!
luvitluvitbaby 4 months ago
@luvitluvitbaby "either one will get SMOKED in the general, " Looking at the polls and Obama's big new plan that it exactly like the one that got us in this mess, How do you see people changing their mind to vote for this hated president?
redbaroniii 4 months ago
@redbaroniii you mean got us out of a mess! Things are bad but nowhere near as bad as they were in January 2009!
Austerity is not the answer. Western Europe has tried that and things have gotten worse!
This hated President? flash back to 1983 Ronald Reagan's poll numbers were LOWER and we see how that worked out! Perry and Bachmann cater to the Tea Party which has a 20% popularity rating in this country, meanwhile they have a 70% popularity among the GOP. Translation: They're un-electable!
luvitluvitbaby 4 months ago
@luvitluvitbaby "1983 Ronald Reagan's poll numbers were LOWER" But the economic numbers were great and going through the roof. Europe is one year ahead of us in the mess caused by socialist programs (they never ever work you know). They will have to adopt austerity. We do not. Who cares about the tea party, the president has lost the left, the middle, and ever Waters thinks he is a goof.
redbaroniii 4 months ago
@redbaroniii You wrote "But the economic numbers were great and going through the roof."
Really, 10.7% Unemployment in January 1983 is through the roof? Keep in mind this was a full 2 years into the Reagan White House. Obama's highest unemployment was 10.2%in November 2009 in his first year in office.
The left isn't pleased with Obama but if you think they are voting for Perry or Bachmann you are high lol!
luvitluvitbaby 4 months ago
@luvitluvitbaby "January 1983 is through the roof?" I said economy, did not refer to unemplyment form the Carter (the 2nd worst president) rule.
redbaroniii 4 months ago
@redbaroniii You wrote "anuary 1983 is through the roof?" I said economy, did not refer to unemplyment form the Carter (the 2nd worst president) rule."
Jimmy Carter was President in January 1983? Damn I didn't know that, I always thought it was Ronald Reagan. I thought the unemployment rate was a direct indicator of how well the economy is doing with Americans. Since it's not... I guess it's safe to say our economy is BOOMING right now LOL! OBAMA 2012!!!
luvitluvitbaby 4 months ago
@luvitluvitbaby "anuary 1983 is through the roof?" You are pointing out a mistake in your Quote? Those are your words pal.
redbaroniii 4 months ago
@redbaroniii if the unemployment rate was in double digits how do you figure the economy was through the roof?
If that's the case than our current economic situation is out of this world!!! LOL!!
luvitluvitbaby 4 months ago
@redbaroniii look at my post again I noted Obama created -.2.4 million jobs NOT 2.4 million. Unlike most conservatives I will acknowledge the bad and the good. This number is awful, but has to be considered in context! The the month he was sworn in we lost 700,000 jobs! Stimulus wasn't signed till April. It slowed job loss but didn't STOP it. in "09" All in all we lost 5 million jobs in 2009. So since 2010 the President has eatin away at the number hence his dismal -2.4 million jobs created!
luvitluvitbaby 4 months ago
@luvitluvitbaby " NOT 2.4 million." Sorry, entirely my fault, just didn't see the (-) My old age eyes need some of that good old FREE Obama eye care stuff to fix them up. Didn't mean to miss quote you.
redbaroniii 4 months ago
@luvitluvitbaby "I wasn't going to respond" I am glad you did, (honest really), I am sure it was heart felt.
redbaroniii 4 months ago
The GAO has told us that Obama lied... Obama care will cost trillions more and add it to the deficit that will flush our economy down the drain. In short Obamacare is "unsustainable" that means it won't work, no matter what. Like a paper mache rocket to fly people to the moon.... It will never work.
redbaroniii 5 months ago
I was and still am ALL for Healthcare Reform. However, I don't see how the USA can justify saying they now have what is known as the AFFORDABLE Care Act!!! I have read articles and emails about people in Canada having to pay up to $1500 as a COUPLE, per year, for healthcare!! I ONLY WISH!!! I, as an INDIVIDUAL have to pay $410/MONTH for a healthcare plan that has a HIGH deductible as well as a HIGH co-insurance ($50/mth more that 2010)!!! It is killing me!! You call this affordable???
Margpeg101 9 months ago
@Margpeg101 The Law doesn't go fully in effect until 2014 and The Republican controlled congress is doing everything it can to deny funding for it so it won't be implemented properly.
luvitluvitbaby 5 months ago
@luvitluvitbaby Spoken by a true commie. Guess you think that the soviets could have made their socialist medicine work "if only it was properly funded. In any event the bills costs to start up are already approved and is law. The dirty demos hid that in the bill itself. Wise up.
redbaroniii 5 months ago
@redbaroniii You wrote "Spoken by a true commie. "
Let's keep the debate civil o.k. There is a big difference between socialism and communism.
First of all the current law isn't even socialism so we are argueing a mute point. A Single-Payer plan is socialism, this is a free market soulution to attain universal healthcare! That's what Richard Nixon, Orin Hatch, Bob Dole, and other prominent Conservatives called it! So unless you are ready to declare Bob Dole a Commie Quit while you're behind!
luvitluvitbaby 5 months ago
@luvitluvitbaby communism was a name used by Lenin to differentiate those that support him rather that other SOCIALISTS. Oh yes it is socialism, the government is taking over the production of goods/services. It runs the auto industry, the banks, and now medicine. Still you must admit that Obama care and his other schemes will plunge this nation into the worst depression in the history of the world. Thanks to Obama we are weaker, and poorer than ever and don't say Bush!
redbaroniii 5 months ago
@redbaroniii you wrote"communism was a name used by Lenin to differentiate those that support him rather that other SOCIALISTS."
Then might I add that the Klu Klux Klan is a conservative Christian organization, so this means that all conservatives belong to the KKK.
oooh ooohh oohhh me me me me....I got a better one!! o.k o.k o.k.... I got it!!!! Al-Qaeda are right-wing conservative extremists! Soooo, this means all conservatives in the world are members of Al-Qaeda LMAO!!!!
luvitluvitbaby 5 months ago
@luvitluvitbaby This makes no sense. What is the meaning? What does this have to do with how stupid Obama care is?
redbaroniii 5 months ago
@redbaroniii You wrote " This makes no sense"
You constantly equate having liberal ideas with being communism or something evil or bad! I was simply pointing out how absurd one could be if we used the same tactic but in the oppisite direction!
P.S. Obamacare is NOT Socialism!! It's a free market Capitalist solution to Universal Healthcare just ask Bob Dole!
luvitluvitbaby 5 months ago
@luvitluvitbaby Hell's Bell, In my opinion you are one hell-of-a-lot smarter than any Senator, especially Dole.
I don't know why people flee from the term socialist. You are what you are. If you believe that Government is there to perfect mankind, make things fair, and that history is a matter of class struggle then you are, more than likely a socialist. If you don't that belief then you are for the freedom of mankind.
redbaroniii 5 months ago
@redbaroniii You wrote "I don't know why people flee from the term socialist. You are what you are."
True, but you also should consider that over the past 30 years Conservative Corperate Interest with their billions of dollars placed into various PACs have been able to influence ignorant and gullable Americans into equating everything Socialist with Fidel Castro or Josef Stalin! Nevermind that Canada, Great Brittain, Germany are Socialist States! Socialism is evil BOO! :-O
luvitluvitbaby 5 months ago
@luvitluvitbaby You are in love with single payer, why stop there? How about free medical care, and free legal representation, free transportation, raise the minimum wage, and do the fair thing; have a maximum incomejust a little higher to prevent unfairness. Add subsidized food for all, so there is no hunger, and free housing for all, end homelessness. That is socialism pure; why fool around?. You like that right? Just like the Soviets, and that worked so well. Right? If not, why not?
redbaroniii 5 months ago