Byron Katie in Israel 2007-I'm afraid of war part 3

[Drontenpeel]

Wow. It means that the shit that happens around us, is a projection of our own shitty thoughts. Is that true? Do I have to watch this over and over again, to flog out the terrible images of hate and destruction that brothers brought upon their brothers, replacing that with unconditional love for the Now.

[dizhar]

What are these people retarded?

[envelope555]

So, turn it around with the word "can": Alot of what I said "can" be accepted. LOL!

While the Katie Byron turnaround thing can even be life-changing, e.g. to replace irrational fears (nothing new in that), some might take it to an unhealthy extreme and become annoying, phony, manipulative (or manipulated), lose touch with how they really feel or afraid to reveal them in front of other Workies. Keep this thing in perspective, and keep it balanced. Use it, but don't let it use you.

[keepitdan08]

i accept everything your saying, because thats reality LOL!

[0hmprakash]

Byron Katie do you actually think that if I get blown up in my last moment on Earth I should completely accept the reality of what's happening to me? How dare you. I have better ideas of how I should react to to the situations in my life then just letting myself be at peace in my last moment here. I need conflict! I want suffering! I need to make my last moment more painful then it has to be! Sheesh, go around giving people the idea they don't have to suffer...

[keepitdan08]

looks to me that alot of what envelope555keeps saying can be questioned

[envelope555]

Turn it around: It looks to you that alot of what I said should be accepted.

[keepitdan08]

i never said should be questioned, i said can be, shoulds and shouldnts dont comply with reality...oh you know im good

[kensho3]

Powerful enough? :-)

[ivorbernhart]

I like Krishnamurti's form of inquiry because he continually stressed not to believe anything he was saying. Over and over he would remind his audience to inquire themselves right then and there and find all the answers for themselves. Buddha was big on questioning too if I remember and for good reason. Look what's happened to the majority of Christians and Muslims. They aren't even able to discover the truth for themselves anymore and some would rather die then question their beliefs.

[ivorbernhart]

The important thing to keep in mind when looking at the work that Byron Katie does or any form of inquiring into what's true and what isn't(like Ramana's, & Krishnamurti's methods for example) is that inquiry won't make sense unless you try it yourself and verify that it brings about peace. Otherwise it won't make sense because you yourself haven't witnessed for example the ability to be seriously injured without suffering mentally and emotionally or whatever.

[envelope555]

I don't see any personal 'peace' in having to feel bad for experiencing situation-appropriate, healthy anger, grief, fear, or even rage if the situation warrants it. Sure, self reflection, questioning irrational fears, and ending obsessive wishing for things that aren't likely to happen can be freeing. and I can see how BK's 4 question routine can help many in this way. I don't accept that one size fits all in all situations or people making BK out to be a savior. Thank you for the discussion.

[envelope555]

I'd say that the person who reacts with rage or fear in that situation is experiencing a normal, healthy, understandable reaction, deserving of empathy and compassion. She may go through a number of grief stages on her own time scale. She might ultimately be able to turn her grief and anger into action, e.g. taking steps to prevent the same from happening to others, educating others, or extending a supportive hand to other victims, armed with a newfound empathy.

[obe19900]

Thank you envelope555. I did see something. "But dying with a peaceful loving presence comforting you would be better than dying with an anxiety drunken, angry person yelling bloody murder." I must ask myself, is that true? I don't know what would be best for the child in that situation. I can just say, I'd rather be peaceful in that situation. I am learning more how I need to make ME feel better and not assuming others need to. We can agree to disagree. Thank you for the dialogue. :) - Darryl

[envelope555]

A bomb goes off and your child's stomach is blasted open as you watch her bleed to death, and you're supposed to feel perfectly fine?! She is so out of touch with reality yet that's all she talks about. I find this approach just disgusting.

[quantistica]

Turn that Around and "you feel your approach is disgusting".

[envelope555]

What you're saying, sidestepping with the obnoxious turn-it-around ploy, is that YOU find MY approach disgusting. Well then, turn that around: You like my approach. Thank you. Creating cognitive dissonance can make people look at their troubles from a different perspective, which can be healing, but can also be mind-muddling. Referring to victims as violent criminals, that's just wrong. Letting go of inrrational fears is great; creating a cult leader out of Katie Byron, not so great.

[LadyUnusual]

no, a loss of a beloved one, needs the time of crying and being in black. In that moment Katie also knows that. After a certain time everybody should remember life still goes on. To keep live going on and keep loving every one's self, Katie helps - that's all. The woman in the video indeed did not suffer any loss, she really is fine.

[kitai03]

See how you are caught in a nightmare? In your thoughts? In your movies inside of your head? And what is the reality in this moment? Just look - without your stories. And yo might be able to see.

[envelope555]

Annoying! Packaged, simplistic, very presumptuous, and shallow - ugh! So, you say to me: "You are caught in a nightmare." Turn it around, ala BK. Now you're saying to me: "I am the one who is caught in a nightmare." Or, "You are NOT caught in a nightmare." Or, "You are living a wonderful life." People might not hear much criticism of BK's method because criticism is heavily criticized by BK adherents. You might be accused of being caught in a nightmare. Nice try.

[envelope555]

I want to add that after seeing the video performance (and yes, these are stage acts, not random samples of private therapy) of the man who BK guided to say "I DON'T want my cancer to go away" and then pressured in front of an audience of BK zealots to give examples of how this is true, it's easy to see that many people would be damaged by this approach. But wait, the person can go back to BK with the statement "I don't want my cancer to go away" and turn that around. Back where he started. Ha!

[kitai03]

MIght it be possible that you are still believing your stressful thoughts? And might it also be possible that you have never attended a Work-seminar?

The videos are NOT perfomances - people undergo massive chenges and are thankful for that.

[obe19900]

Hey envelope555. One way of looking at that is if your child's stomach is blasted open then it is blasted open. In that moment you can be panicked with rage and anxiety or you can be at peace. Either way, the child is dying. Either way you may stand over the child, hold the child. But dying with a peaceful loving presence comforting you would be better than dying with an anxiety drunken, angry person yelling bloody murder. Either way the child is dying. What are your thoughts on this? - Darryl

[obe19900]

Hey envelope555. One way of looking at that is if your child's stomach is blasted open then it is blasted open. In that moment you can be panicked with rage and anxiety or you can be at peace. Either way, the child is dying. Either way you may stand over the child, hold the child. But dying with a peaceful loving presence comforting you would be better than dying with an anxiety drunken, angry person yelling bloody murder. Either way the child is dying. What are your thoughts on this? - Darryl

[Pranananda]

really amazing to "participate" in the awakening of that wonderful woman from Israel. Thank you.

[KarthikSoun]

Some body must get this real life Jesus Christ on Oprah soon. She wont go there, but it is left to people around her to use her and take her there. I know such people, if you let them they will just sit in small rooms and talk to people and go when there time is done. They dont care about anything. So if you care and I care, we must take her to the world.

[KarthikSoun]

Coming to think of it, would Oprah relay want someone like her? I mean Byron Katie would become more of a competition and thats probably what Opera would think. No one wants to loose what they have.

[chocoboasylum]

To be honest, Oprah would love it and it wouldn't harm her reputation or her show. She would start including Byron's books in her book club (if she hasn't already) and just ride along on the wave until the next big thing was found and then she'd go with that. It's how she's been working for ages.

[emma1009]

so excited... i wish the work would "work" on my problems

[Wantabanana]

It doesn't work on your problems? Is that true?

[jazpaz]

..............i appreciate that we can only change ourselves and that is very important. This woman has a lot of energy and patience and I do think she is great and must be fearless and that would be a state of Grace for anybody........

[Nquietness]

damn... made me cry.

[reilady]

Wow! Every time I meet this woman, I am SO inspired! I did the work with Byron Katie 7 years ago...and my entire life has been transformed from that one hour session. If you thought The Secret was powerful...when it made it to Oprah...watch out...this lady will blow any of those "experts" away! I've never been so humbled before. :) This work for me is like the greatest "Secret"...I am so grateful to have been introduced to this process.

[Nquietness]

Let me tell you -- when Katie gets on Oprah.... something magical is going to accelerate in this world.

I don't think it's "time" yet... personally, my best sense is that world events have to get even "darker" for anything like that to happen, and for it make the right impact.

I would flip my sh*t if I saw an hour-long event of Katie on Oprah. Wow!

...Thanks for posting and allowing me to brainstorm out loud with ya.

[obe19900]

There's an hour-long Katie-Oprah soul session up now N.

[cvedeler]

Wow! I saw Katie live in Phoenix about a year ago. "The Work" seams too simple to work. Why you see her facilitate someone in isolation of understanding what she is really doing it is understandable that she could "get on your nerves". As "The Work" grows inside of me, I'm understanding it in such a profound way that before seemed silly or "pollyannaish" and I see it as a way towards ending the war between my ears.

[jazpaz]

i appreciate your comment - i agree with doing work on ourselves, i think that the people who come to her workshops are people who are already on the brink of change or obviously desire it - I guess what i want to see is more grass roots change - would Katie ever be able to meet up with a perpetrator of war and 'make a turnaround' - to me that would be powerful but somehow i don't see that happening........

[jazpaz]

i'm sorry but some of the stuff she says just GETS ON MY NERVES

[Wantabanana]

Who cares? Not me.

[paige2e]

It's even more exciting when it gets in your heart!

[obe19900]

Stuff like what jazpaz?

[djpeart7]

Food for thought for all of us-to be able to detach oneself from such fear is a credit to Israelis and Palestinians alike! Gives hope for a feasable peace!

[taintstain2]

AJD-It's interesting to see Katie talk to anyone! She is one of the most important people on the planet if we care about the end of suffering.

[ajd8]

It would be interesting to see Katie talk with Palestinians...