This Means War (1/6)

[edcouyet]

thanks for posting this up.

[IgnoranceAlliance]

The Pit of Despair! ..Don't even think about trying to escape. The chains are far too thick.

[rottenvikingshark]

we have guns too?

[GTWHITEFEVER]

Is he high ?

[warprod]

When are we gunna realy resist and stop posting comments?

[joffreyc]

I've listened to a lot of Jensen, I've thought a lot about his points, I don't agree with every single thing he says, but I love that he says it.

If you listen to Jensen and can come up with nothing but criticism, there is seriously something wrong with your ability to question that which you've always taken for granted... that is to say, you're normal..

[videoguy604]

Try and take away my technology and you'll see what technology can do against you...

[videoguy604]

Why are you posting this on the Internet, shouldn't you be carving the words of your Pol Pot wannabe on tree bark with a sharp stone?

[trank31337]

@videoguy604 dude you suck, honestly. well, you don't suck, but what you're saying sure does. cmon, be a cool guy, its easy

[videoguy604]

@trank31337 You mess with our technology, well be prepared to feel what our military technology is capable of. We're not going to live as a caveman and we would be prepared to let wrath you could never imagine fall upon any group that tried to take our technology away.

[trank31337]

@videoguy604 It isn't that we're "against" technology, it's just that the Industry that creates technology is killing the Earth. And if the Earth dies, so do we! The arrogance of so many men is that they think they can kill the Earth and also survive. They can't. In order for you to pummel me with your technological weaponry, you have to make sure the Earth is healthy and vibrantly alive for you to be able to do so.

[videoguy604]

@trank31337 The Earth is just a seed that true civilization will sprout out of. When a plant germinates, it consumes and destroys the seed, who cares about the seed. We have a future in the starts as real civilization. I worry about the destruction of Earth as much as you worry about how an oak tree destroys an acorn.

[trank31337]

@videoguy604 That's an interesting theory, honestly. But what I'm telling you is that you, as a human being, and also I, require 2 things to survive: fresh air, and clean water. INDUSTRY, alllllll ALLLLLLLL Industry, technology, ALLLLLLLL this manmade bullshit, POLLUTES those two things I just described. So you CANNOT have both. Either destroy technology, or DIE. Those are your and my options. This is not a debate, these are facts. Now let's meet up and get a beer because I like you.

[videoguy604]

@trank31337 No, we won't need air or water after our minds are digitally scanned and we live as electronic simulations that run off of the powerful computer infrastructure we'll develop. Bodies are so primitive, and I hate everything primitive.

[dverlege]

@videoguy604

Can't tell if you're a troll, presenting a ridiculous worldview in order to be critiqued, or an insane technology zealot. You certainly sound like a religious fanatic. That thing about viewing the earth as a seed to be consumed for 'a true civilization' to be birthed is completely ridiculous.

[PtAltmVansanTarr]

The filmmaker Antonioni was making films when Italy was going through alot of industrialization. He himself said that growth was bringing people out of poverty, yet his films content show an extreme ambivalence about industrialization. Pasolini was much more blunt in his reactionary stance against Italian Fascists, and he was killed after making his most blunt film aimed at the elite class.

[dubified89]

@lol97d So much stuff that the environment is destroyed for like paper for the book as he mentioned could be replaced with industrial hemp if it were not for the control of corporations and the government

[caseyforever]

on the personal level violence is toxic. when within a violent system it may be that you are forced to use violence to overcome that system. our 'everyday lives' are not peaceful even though we think we move through our days peacefully. a lot of people had to be exploited of killed RECENTLY (not just the past) so that i could, for example, be sitting at this computer, leaving this comment. i want out. i want to live with honor, and reconnect with my origin, and destiny. also, this is love.

[dubified89]

Whatever, this guy is an extremist. We are the natural world too, the system of extreme profit trumping everything has got to be challenged but what the fuck, we can't disturb any of nature's resources for ourselves? Taken to the extreme that means we can't hunt, grow food or anything & should just die. What other species does that? Dude is imbalanced. Yes there are some serious problems but he takes it way to the extreme. We need to live in harmony with nature not not interacting w/it

[hillexallen]

@dubified89 youre wrong about derrick, and about the natural world

[caseyforever]

anyone who's into this stuff living anywhere between Baton Rouge and New Orleans? if so contact me! : )

[regurgitatedlie]

I love that you can really see him thinking out and organizing his thoughts as he answers. It might not be as convincing or to-the-point as something he's written down, but it's cool to watch the gears turning.

[damael222]

there are 2 reasons why everybody should reach their arms and prepare for war:

1. They will try to destroy the earth ecosystem so it will not be possible anymore for humans to live on the earth.

2. They found ways to completly control the human behaviour. There are programs where they can take out individuals, completly reprogram their toughts and behaviours, and they will managa to control the SOUL.

Happy news guys, get fucking prepared

[ZYKLONBKILLSHITLER]

Wouldn't the absence of political and economic hierarchy already lead to environmental awareness? Can't we use this knowledge to develop technology not systematically destroy the natural world?

[damael222]

@ZYKLONBKILLSHITLER Thats not possible with the autorities in place. There is the vatican, zionists, militry industrial complex, secrect orders, all working for the system. They want make more war... They dont listen to ideas of undestructive energy sources. THEY WANT TO TRAVEL TO THE STARS AND THE ONLY WAY TO GET THE ACCEPTANCE OF THE PEOPLE IS TO DESTROY THE PLANET... thats proven, lots of reserachers know this fact, and its a Nostradamus / Elders of Zion Timetable to rule the universe

[NobodyYou1]

Mr. bathetcnow!

You know...I`m just tired of people that think that a "Green new deal" or "Capitalism 2.0" or "Save the Whales and the Snales-Program" or "Organic Food for everybody" or "Yoga and Buddhism for everybody" or "Hippies in Armany Jeans" or "Jesus Christ is green" could actually CHANGE this World.

As long as we don`t understand the "Nature of Capitalism" and it`s "Growth Problem". Again: Capitalism needs constant growth otherwise the system is in danger!

To be green = Anticapital

[NobodyYou1]

This guy gets totally confused with everything because he thinks that the money in your pocket is equivalent to capital (factories, stocks, bonds etc.)...

Destruction is the direct consequence of an eternal growth system. But without growth Capitalism can`t survive. The worker and the capitalist are actually in the same boat...they both need constant growth of the economy. That`s why classwar is always systemimmanent and Utopia is far away!

[bathetcnow]

@NobodyYou1 he is anything but confused and exept for your end remark , you guys are on a similar page. dig deeper - we're all fucked unless we alter our paths NOW

[fourplusseven]

Idiotic.

Society is just about to decline thanks to the end of oil. Figuring out how to bring society down is like figuring out how to melt ice. Just wait, it'll melt.

He admits this (without realizing it) when he says airlines staying in business are doubtful. Doubtful? All the airlines are already unviable. Just wait and watch them drop.

Meanwhile, try to do something constructive for the human predicament that decline is bound to engender. Don't just mope about how you hate your species.

[fourplusseven]

Shame so many are listening to this when they could be doing something useful. Rob Hopkins is way better than this -- and he *doesn't* fly any more.

Jensen's grasp of the economic and political situation is laughable! "Limiting spending might be a good move, although not the best" -- doesn't he realize that nature herself is starting to limit our spending?

Apparently not. Read someone intelligent -- Hopkins, Sharon Astyk, or the best of all, John Michael Greer. Right now, you need *brains*.

[mayurasana]

You say a lot of good things Derrick, but you are a slave to this system just as much as anyone else.

[withnowords]

running circles with language. BORING!

[fowzie777]

all of nature requires something to die in order for something else to survive. lightning strikes and starts a forest fire that destroys a couple hundred thousand hectares of forest. thats natural so its ok. natural resources are there for us to use. the problem is to use them wisely. WE ARE PART OF THE NATURAL WORLD IDIOT!!!

[21288003771215]

yeah, i never heard of ecology either.

[pazomblez]

we need to enter into relationship with the natural world, not -use- it as a 'resource.' to do so is to perpetuate the same anthropocentric, narcissistic myth that the natural world is a bunch of stuff for humans' use and advantage. this is the same logic that an abusive narcissistic person applies to what are suppoesd to be personal relationships. they see other people simply as resources for the aggrandizement of their ego. this is also the way the dominant culture views the natural world.

[ethor5]

learn to spell so someone idiot out there can take you seriously.

[jessekelly1234]

haha jc you moron. yes he's wearing a jacket. watch part 2, he puts you to bed within the first minute.

[StarGazerCafe]

I'm thinking he may be distressed knowing what he's about to say. He definately knows what is coming.

[jimiBEbandit]

lol i can tell your intelligent hahah

[buzzmaxwell]

vote with your dollars!! selective consumption is truly good stewardship...just a little consideration can alleviate so much waste and destruction..give peace a chance

[8f13ld1n9]

Most--if not all--of the disagreements posted here could be avoided if people took the time to actually read Derrick's work. You can't possibly get an accurate overarching perspective on such subversive concepts from such a terse interview. I'm afraid this interview might do Derrick more harm than good. I know him; he's one of the most compassionate and intelligent people I have ever met. Read his work before you jump to conclusions. It's a difficult subject that needs to be addressed.

[GTWHITEFEVER]

@8f13ld1n9 ; Whats wrong with disagreement ?

[jc7622]

Hey, isn't that guy wearing a jacket made out of nylon? Isn't nylon made from petroleum? He is part of the problem and doesn't even know it.

[ClearMindDontKnow]

Did you actually watch the video? Have you actually read his books?

Not wearing a nylon jacket is not the leverage he's looking for, as he states in the video. Boycotting is not good enough leverage. Taking out the dams and stores and buildings yourself is the leverage that actually works.

Take the time to actually listen to what he's saying.

[fourplusseven]

Spare me.

US capacity to feed and heat itself is already diminishing and a Greater Depression is coming. Now some idiot knocks out a few dams. Predictable results: angry, hungry people with even less capacity to feed themselves chopping down trees to keep warm. Gain to the environment: nil.

Way to go genius.

Try to the see the difference between an action that *makes you feel better* and an action that will *do some good*.

[UglyFacet]

@fourplusseven What's with the hate-boner for the environmental perspective?

I'm more marxist in my economic perspective too but I still like Jensen's angle.



In your perspective, people are primary, and I'm the same, but Jensen equates all life on earth as equal, and thinks in time-scales of landbases regenerating themselves.

From that POV, knocking out dams makes perfect sense. You need to save the bitter animosity for the people who really deserve it, like BP executives for example.

[fourplusseven]

@UglyFacet You are misreading me. I'm not Marxist. I don't want to take down BP execs -- they are going to take themselves down. I'm very green and concerned with living sustainably, and I equate all life on earth too. What I'm against is schoolboy frustration posing as effective action. I didn't say 'people are primary'; making them angry and hungry will not help the natural world, however much it salves Jensen's ego.

I gave names: Hopkins, Greer, Astyk... read them. They're not Marxists!

[UglyFacet]

@fourplusseven I didn't say you were a marxist ideologue, just that you refer to class antagonisms and place emphasis on people's immediate needs over the long-term effects on the landbase.

People are angry and hungry because the system of social organization is woefully inadequate to meet their needs. That's not Jensen's fault, nor does it change the fact that dams have a massive negative effect on the biosphere.

I think it's a mistake to confuse his macro-analysis with "schoolboy" angst. IMHO

[fourplusseven]

@UglyFacet I emphasize needs because the system is *going under*. We don't need to fight it. There are people working on new ways already -- ones that can benefit nature *and* fulfill needs. That relationship is changing. But very hard times are coming.

Make an effort to understand what I'm saying. Google my references -- plus Richard Heinberg and automatic earth -- and you will get it. Jensen sees culture as inherently evil... sophomoric. Ineffectual. But for him, emotionally satisfying.

[fourplusseven]

@fourplusseven Put it another way: when hard times come, when economies collapse, you always see social unrest and from it often come some very unpleasant regimes. Look at your history. That is our future now, and we are in danger of losing a great deal of social cohesion yet again, predictably. The amount of cheap electricity we all have available is going to spiral down and everyone's going to feel very poor and they're going to be angry and look for people to blame.

[fourplusseven]

@uglyfacet Constructive thinking will be required to see anything positive come from this time. One can start that process -- or feel angry and look to blame. It's obvious on which side of that equation Jensen places himself. He will be part of the problem; he's far too behind-the-curve to be part of the solution, and if you read the people I've mentioned, you will see why.

I'm sorry but these little bits of text can't do this subject justice -- if you want more, message me.

[UglyFacet]

@fourplusseven

Alright then! The 500 word limit can be frustrating to windbags such as ourselves!

[terpis]

4:10

"that's not a lot of leverage"

no kidding. & that's the leverage you see reflected in the current 'cap and trade' climate legislation.

But then even in it's approaching-infinite weakness, this is perhaps infinitely more leverage than a David Gilbert, say, (much less a Fred Hampton or George Jackson) is able to apply against the system.

Leads one to suspect real change can't get rolling until major, major catastrophy starts cascading. What a situation.

[randomlaughingman]

zer0zer0 day is coming to the spiritually-corrupt who harm nature.

bye-bye interdimensional fallen parasites, using up life here and calling it 'resources'. Fuck off capitalist scum.

Babylon is always claiming to be advanced, and refering to its fantasy of cavemen to scare morons into continuiing to be its bitches. You aren't advanced. You know fuck-all about how reality works fucktards. 30%-efficiency engines running on fossil fuels, whoo! yeah you're so advanced. Greys will be probing u

[Jdiddy815]

I can't see any contribution that he has made to the world.

[asubjectiveopinion]

That's because you're determined not to see it.

[Jdiddy815]

Well I can see that his work inspires people to see society's flaws. But does he actually do anything to fix the problems or just point the problems out? It seems to me that he is saying the problem with society is people. If we take out the people, no person will be around to be satisfied with the fix. So, in my mind, all he has done is to point out a problem that has no viable solution. Thanks for showing me that there is no hope of my existence in a 'perfect world'?

[asubjectiveopinion]

I think you're inferring quite a lot. He certainly isn't proposing genocide, if I read your sub-text correctly.

There is a whole genre of far-right conspiracy theorists who seem to feel that any movement that addresses over-population, or it's effect on the planet, is, somehow, secretly plotting to eradicate all human life and I suspect that you may be advancing that whole Alex Jones fascist line with your comment.

If that's not the case then I apologise, but it sounds a little like that to me.

[Jdiddy815]

I don't feel at all like his angle is to wipe humanity off of the face of the earth. I can certainly see the truths in his viewpoint, but nonetheless this interview offers no hope. It is very demoralizing. The whole point of his talk is that no matter what 'those of us who care' do, despite our best efforts we will still be destroying the environment. As I said before, it amounts to a dilemma with no possible solutions... it isn't a doomsday prophecy, but sure does make a guy feel guilty

[iownnubs1]

What do you mean "Just point out the problems"? I think that that is a very big step, hes contributed alot to people all around giving them knowledge about what is going on in the world. If you cant see that, you need to open your eyes.

[buzzmaxwell]

solutions are the key, agreed..anyone can point out the problems, few can show real ways to put things back in balance once the harm has been done...at ANY level

[EwakAmerica]

How do you come to the conclusion that making a lot of money harms the world? The system is corrupt not the people participating in the system. If everyone believed your logic we would be living in leaf teepee's and still drawing on rock and look where that got us. Please take a dose of reality with your brainwashed view point.

[EyeGodZA]

Have you looked around you? The system is corrupt because it was created by people. Because people are too comfortable and too ignorant to actually think about how the products they consume came into their grubby hands...

[mojomike]

"If everyone believed your logic we would be living in leaf teepee's and still drawing on rock and look where that got us." - exactly.. it got us through 2 million years just fine.. and gets many still living cultures along just fine..

[iownnubs1]

I guess you didn't listen to the whole thing...

[miskokinoo]

I totally agree. This culture will turn the whole planet into a Global Easter Island if it isn't stopped. This global cancerivilization is insane. Fortunately, there are more and more people using their skills and talents to stop "it".

[upstart1776]

What's the matter ? You gushy liberals don't like common sense arguments , so you try to bury the comments. How typical; th esupposed advocates of 'tolerance', inclusiveness and diversity are none of the above. .....But we all know you're the real fascists...Bush couldn't hold a candle to you people. You've got fascism down!!

[upstart1776]

Oil Derrick says NOTHING new. It's more boring than anything else.

[upstart1776]

"it's always good to take money from Walmart"..

" I actually fly alot, because I do alot of talks"

You are a total and complete fraud. If you weren't, you would drink your own urine, eat (after apologizing to them) vegetables that you've fertilized with your own excrement, and only speak from atop a wooden (post-consumer) box. You use computers, electricity, fossil-fuel powered devices and vehicles to promote your ridiculous ideas. By the way, those better be handmade organic clothes.

[mans0nh]

He he. What an argument. You just attempted to use his own message against him.

In suggesting that he should do these things otherwise he is a hypocrite shows that there is an issue with these things.

And I congratulate you on attacking the messenger and not the message. Well done.

Its so funny, that you are in his book too, and its a really great piece on the mindset you appear to be stuck in.

Again, well done!

[upstart1776]

That's a ridiculous 5th grade-level argument. I have no issue with flying, eating, or consuming power and water.I do take issue over this jerk who advocates everyone else do his dirty work (violence). I do have problems with people who advocate the destruction of other people's legitimately obtained property. Come to my house with that mentality, and you'll never leave alive. And that's a fact.

[mans0nh]

"Legitimately obtained property" say that to native cultures, Africans, Indians, Tibetans, Mexicans, pretty any country who isn't a part of the super powers.

So if I massacre people i can then claim their land as my legitimate obtained property?

And again, with attacking the messenger, nice job. You destroy your own arguments through it :D

[upstart1776]

Don't know your history, do you?

Africans sold each other into slavery, Indians (how insenstive of you..:-)) massacred each other for centuries, Tibetans are victims of communism, and Mexicans started a war with us in the 19th century. So basically you're ignorant. but that's ok. But fundamentally, the reality is that some (not all) wars result in land acquisition. That's just the way it is and will alwyas be. Only the Israelis give back land after winning it from those who attacked them.

[LostFREEDOM]

why cant people like this be in power ? why do we get nothing but greedy assholes and maniacs in power ?

[bckyrdboogie]

because these people dont believe in power

[adramatictheme]

Because apparently people aren't willing to remove them from power.

[maejinyokai]

derrick you're a brilliant man, if just a little angry. but never quote Ward Churchill again. that man is a cancer on a community of visionaries and he should be treated as such.

[Vaerify]

what the fuck are you talking about?

[maejinyokai]

toward the end he quotes ward churchill

[Vaerify]

whats wrong with ward churchill?

[maejinyokai]

is that a serious question? the man celebrated the deaths occurring on September 11th. some of them may have been evil industry fuckheads that were responsible for some passive murder of their own I grant, but a decent human does not celebrate murder, even if the murdered deserved it. if her were indifferent to it I wouldn't care

[Vaerify]

He did not "celebrate" anything.provide a quote in which he celebrates their deaths.

"It should be emphasized that I applied the "little Eichmanns" characterization only to those described as "technicians." Thus, it was obviously not directed to the children, janitors, food service workers, firemen and random passers-by killed in the 9-1-1 attack."

-Ward Churchil

[maejinyokai]

hmmm, perhaps I just judged him too quickly. if that is how he meant it, then i can't say I don't agree

[upstart1776]

The fact that he still lives and breathes. Hopefully , he will become part of the Earth soon. One can only hope.

[QuinnEGorges]

Derrick Jensen, why are you so awesome?

[back2nrml]

lol I love all these amature youtube philosphers. Let derrick do the talking and we just act it out. Lol some of these comments are so redicoulus. Like my spelling. You guys just sound like your trying realy hard to use certain words but are not making any sence of it, nore have the anwers.

[dusteroo]

Perhaps what they're saying makes more sense to themselves --and maybe others-- than to you..?

The best way out of that problem is to just let them talk aloud; to themselves; but don't intervene at even the earliest stages of their reflection discouraging them/preventing them from even doing so.

[Schmoogee]

Mass-cannibalism will come when the great environmental collapse happens. People farms will be created.

[Claybird121]

People farms already exist. They're called governments.

[Claybird121]

Actually, i shouldn't say that. i'll correct myself and say that people farms do exist, they're called states. Governments just run the state. Farmer for the farm.

[durado]

You claim the "planet has survived far worse than we can inflict on it" but in fact we have no record of the level of carbon currently in our atmosphere or temperature change we are experiencing. We are bringing temperatures and resources to conditions this planet has not seen before. Do you want to live through another ice age or another carboniferous period, or a world polluted, poisoned, radiated, genetically altered, and altered in all the other ways we devise between now and that outcome?

[EntertainedWatcher]

looks green

[pennilesscripple]

i would like to think that using this very medium is one way of leveraging our power, as we can reach more people here and draw support and explore saner ways together--this very video is a good example of jensen leveraging his power to stop the destruction

[zzz33333]

seconded

[historyandpoetry]

The consequences will be the same for all. Those who are doing the killing are not going to stop on their own; they are insane. They MUST BE stopped. This is Jensen's premise, and it is both logical and obvious as soon as the lenses of indoctrination/enculturation are stripped away.

[historyandpoetry]

90% of pre-industrial ocean life is gone. The world was covered in ancient forests; where are they now? The air, water, and soil in much of the world is toxic from chemicals, radioactivity, industrial-agricultural waste, and secondary effects like silting and salinization. The planetary life-cycles are being undermined. The Earth is being murdered, as are most people on it, for illusions of wealth and power.

[historyandpoetry]

Arjunsi, I appreciate your skepticism. Doomsday prophesizing is the archtypal mark of paranoia. But I'm with Jensen. Civilization is pushing CO2 to the level of the Permian extinction, which nearly ended life on Earth. The methane in the permafrost, in the ocean depths, and under equatorial lakes are ALREADY being released, and they will unleash catastrophic warming that will kill off most life on Earth, unless we can limit the damage through rapid and radical social change.

[dusteroo]

you're right about 90% of this ~ but doomsday prophesizing is not paranoia, let alone the archtypal, but it's responsible reflection on future survivalism.

[kleercut]

never heard of this guy before, but I'm so glad I now have. he is sooo right. our entire culture is a lie. if you think it all the way through, it is all devised to kill the planet, which will kill us. the buffalo, pigeons, and salmon were exterminated to make the Indians dependant on the gov. wow. I've heard reports of deer being "culled" on a large scale right now. why?

[nicolatwo]

I just don't like the concept of libertarianism, because that system would invite even more green light for the corporations.

[arjunsi]

This guy isn't very convincing.

[zzz33333]

really?

[arjunsi]

Yeah, he doesn't employ a great deal of logic and often makes some strange conclusions from his premises. Generally, his grasp on psychology and sociology that he draws his arguments from isn't very sound.

[zzz33333]

wow. have you done any background research to back this up? are you just pretending to know what you're talking about?

[arjunsi]

Well, the 'background research' you do to back up claims that someone is not being a good agent of reason is study in logic. The inconsistancies I see in his reasoning needs little research to point out, merely college-level understanding of the principles of psychology and sociology and, again, logic.

[zzz33333]

what the fucking shit are you taking about. civilization is killing the planet. what does this have to do with college or philosophy?

[arjunsi]

Hmm. Nothing, if you subscribe to arguments based only on emotion. But thats what we call propaganda, friend. Besides, not only has our planet survived far worse than we can inflict on it (ice ages, carboniferous periods, etc), humans have survived them as well. Sell your doomsday misinformation elsewhere.

[zzz33333]

jensen would say and i would agree that all writing is indeed propaganda. i'm not worried about the planet, i'm worried about it as a habitat for us to live in.

[SFwizardoakland]

of course no doomsday for the planet...but for us my friend, for our race, and most other animals...insects have the best the chance. sell your petty words to the less informed.

[boostah27]

interesting thanks