Wretched TV with Todd Friel on Seventh-Day Adventism

[insx]

It's not good practise to quote stuff and not put the reference. Where is this Ellen White quote from? because it doesn't come up in any search at egwwritings. Until I get the reference, I'm going to assume it's made up.

Oh, and most Adventists do not prefer the Clear Word. Many believe it was a bad idea.

[wiredog89BC]

@insx Are you an SDA? If you are yet are not familiar with the EGW quotes that are referenced here in paraphrase, you should be concerned. When you became an SDA you said in public that you, "affirm their acceptance of the doctrinal beliefs of the Seventh-day Adventist Church in the presence of the church". Todd Friel a Christian, paraphrased these so that Christians could make sense of the SDA prophets claims. Which EGW statements of the prophet are you specifically not aware of?

[insx]

@wiredog89BC It was not at all clear that what "Ellen White said" was a paraphrase. It turns out that it is adapted from Patriarchs and Prophets, p37. It seems that Todd Friel neglected to read the very next paragraph:

"There had been no change in the position or authority of Christ. Lucifer’s envy and misrepresentation and his claims to equality with Christ had made necessary a statement of the true position of the Son of God; but this had been the same from the beginning."

[wiredog89BC]

@insx What are you talking about. Are you seriously trying to argue that such an event even happened? Show us from Scripture and not from a "claimed" vision of the SDA Prophet. It's not in Scripture so why are you even trying to argue as if there is any validity to it?!?!

[insx]

@wiredog89BC I don't plan to have a war with you about the validity of Ellen White's writings. I merely wanted to point out the poor methods used in this video.

[wiredog89BC]

@insx I dont think there is reason to have a "war" as there is no ground for her validity or credibility to her writings. The moment one contradicts, adds or changes what is CLEARLY in Scripture there is no credibility. My 41 years as a Seventh-Day Adventist showed me that. Todd is very on point in the way he points out EGW's errors compared to Scriptures, which most SDAs don't know. Ellen White is of the same ilk of Joseph Smith, Charles Taze Russell, L. Ron Hubbard and Mary Baker Eddy.

[wiredog89BC]

@insx The reference is from much earlier books of the SDA Prophet. (The Spirit of Prophecy Volume 1, p. 17.2, ST January 9, 1879, Art. B, par. 2 , The Story of Redemption, p. 13.2 (1)) She either copied or made up so much stuff up she's all over the road map. The reason SDA's claim she is taken out of context is because she has no harmonized context. One min. she's contradicting Scripture then next minute she contradicts herself. Guess she never envisioned the internet & databases!

[wiredog89BC]

@insx If you want to see even more of the stuff the SDA Prophet made of that ISN'T in scripture try this quiz "bit(dot)ly/yERtVR" Even the 2nd graders I teach in my Sunday School know what is and isn't Scriptural. Or this one MAJOR event regarding the resurrection "bit(dot)ly/AuFaSq"

Just replace the (dot) with a "." an paste into your browser

[TheMariwood]

Adventists and non-Adventists - it doesn't matter if you don't have love. But how do you get love? Only by looking to Jesus, especially in light of the cross, and seeing how much God loves you. As you begin to see how much you are loved by Him, love will awaken in your heart for Him and for others. In the end Love overshadows everything else; "God is love" 1 John 4:8. Labels won't matter, there will eventually be 2 groups: those who love, and those who don't. See the love shining from the cross!

[wiredog89BC]

I would agree that, "it doesn't matter if you don't have love" & we must look at Jesus. However, in SDA we are taught wrongly about Jesus. Of one who failed to complete His work on earth, one who had to be exalted by the Father, one who ceased to exist in the tomb very UNLIKE the true Jesus of the Bible.

A good example is being all in love with my wife but being in love based on a completely wrong-headed understanding/knowledge of her.

Worse yet SDAs teach that wrong understanding to others.

[Riverheel757]

SDA is a cult.

[wiredog89BC]

@jenlovescarey As SDA's we are quick to claim we are being attacked or "persecuted". Have you stopped and observed what SDA's do to Christians? Ever attend Daniel & Revelation Crusades (aka Seminars)? In them we say Christians have the "Mark of the Beast" or are "Worshipers of the Beast". This is despite the well known documented Historical Facts of Church & Ancient History which debunks SDA claims as to why Christians worship on the Lord's Day. If that isn't an attack or hate, what is?

[PastorMcPherson]

This information is untrue about Seventh-day Adventism. We believe Christ has always been God and the Son of God. We also do believe that God the Father is a Spirit, just like Jesus said. We also do not believe that keeping the Commandments will save us. We believe in righteousness by Faith alone in Christ alone. We believe that the Ten Commandments are what believers do as Christ works in them to will and to do of His good pleasure. Colleen Tinker is a disgruntled ex-Adventist who misleads.

[wiredog89BC]

@PastorMcPherson Do you believe that Ellen G White gives qualified divinely inspired interpretation and commentary of Scripture (viz a Prophet on par with those in the Bible?) Are Seventh-Day Adventists required to accept Ellen G White as a Prophet? I would be curious based on your response as I assume you are an ordained SDA Pastor. Why would you say SDAs do not believe God has a physical body, when Ellen G White clearly wrote He does and that Jesus even told her so.

[wiredog89BC]

@PastorMcPherson Are Christians required to keep the Jewish Sabbath in order to be saved? I know of no text in Scripture that makes makes that claim as SDAs are wont to claim.

[wiredog89BC]

@PastorMcPherson Also I assume you know Colleen Tinker then personally enough to substantiate your allegation/claim she is disgruntled? I have experienced first hand the way SDA's like to claim or malign those who leave Seventh-Day Adventism to follow Christ as disgruntled, bitter, angry or lost followers of Satan. Yet it is the etiology of Seventh-Day Adventism in the Great Dissapontment of 1844 that they followed a false prophet William Miller and EGW and as a result were the disgruntled.

[wiredog89BC]

@PastorMcPherson I would also point you to a recent survey of 260 former Seventh-Day Adventists when polled why they left Seventh-Day Adventism 86% left because of Doctrinal differences not as a result being disgruntled. The discovery of Doctrinal discrepancies with Scripture was cited as a result of Intensive Study of Scripture 70%. A much different picture from the false excuse with which SDA's comfort themselves.

[wiredog89BC]

@wiredog89BC The Survey Citation is

Snelling-Whetmore, S. F. (2011). Former Adventist survey summary: Beliefs, experiences, and opinions of adult individuals who are no longer members of the Seventh-day Adventist church. Unpublished raw data.

[wiredog89BC]

@PastorMcPherson SDA's use Christian terminology but not the Christian Dictionary. SDA's do not typically subscribe to the Orthodox Christian Doctrine of the Trinity. If you don't believe that have a listen to these many well known SDA Pastors slaughter the doctrine and actually teach the heresy known as Arianism

cultorchristian(DOT)com/audio/­sdatrinity.mp3

Change the "(DOT)" to a "." when you paste it into a web browser.

[wiredog89BC]

@jenlovescarey So you must believe that Jesus failed in fulfilling the requirements of the Law Col 2:13-17 and in saving us, the very purpose He came? You can find Jesus teaching every precept of the Decalogue with the exception of the 4th in the NT. Paul also wrote Galatians clearly saying the law was fulfilled, Hebrews also records our rest now in Christ. The fact Jesus never taught it and that Paul explicitly wrote the law was fulfilled at the Cross, that should be good enough.

[wiredog89BC]

@jenlovescarey Tell me the audience James wrote the letter and why James wrote the letter. Then compare that to whom Paul wrote Galatians and why he wrote it to them. When you do that you will begin to understand the context that James 2:17 was written and should be used. This practice is lacking in Seventh-day Adventism and is part of why SDA's proof-texting is faulty and indicative of poor handling and teaching of God's word.

[wiredog89BC]

@jenlovescarey Your quoting of Mat 5;17-18 in attempt to support the keeping of the weekly Jewish Sabbath for salvation either tells me (i) you don't believe Christ did succeed at his "it is finished" and is a liar OR (ii) you do believe Jesus fulfilled the law and disagree with Seventh-Day Adventism's teaching. How do we know Jesus did succeed? That proof is found in Romans 8 specifically verse 3. BTW there are not two laws.  Neither Jesus nor the Apostles EVER taught 2 laws only SDAs do.

[wiredog89BC]

So you must believe that Jesus failed in fulfilling the requirements of the Law Col 2:13-17 and in saving us, the very purpose He came? You can find Jesus teaching every precept of the Decalogue with the exception of the 4th in the NT. Paul also wrote Galatians clearly saying the law was done, Hebrews records our rest now in Christ. The fact Jesus never taught it and that Paul explicitly wrote about the end of the law for the Christian, that should be good enough.

[wiredog89BC]

@jenlovescarey Additionally the SDA Reference to Isaiah 66 I suspect verses 22-23 is often used out of context by SDAs but it really shows we (SDAs) don't take our Bible seriously. We try to insist that the weekly Jewish Sabbath will be observed in Heaven so then we should do it here too. Well. . .the same verse also says Monthly Sabbath will be observed in Heaven but we don't observe the Monthly Sabbaths, notice the Monthly Sabbaths are even mentioned BEFORE the weekly to note their primacy.

[wiredog89BC]

@jenlovescarey Also you mentioned being saved. Do you know if you are saved? I'm n talking about hoping to be saved but actually knowing, just like it is written about in Scripture?

[wiredog89BC]

@jenlovescarey To your question. Is the only reason you don't, "commit adultery, steal, and break any of the other 9 commandments" only because it is specifically written in the Decalogue? Then Mat 15:18-19 quoting Isaiah would say that what you describe isn't TRUE Saving Faith.

The verse you cited from James is often used out of context by groups/cults engaged in work based righteousness. Rather the entire Book of Galatians was written to respond to the question you raised, check it out.

[mamainmancj]

Pray for the Adventists to come to the truth and freedom of Christ. :)

[Americanjazzlady]

THANK YOU TODD!!! I always wanted to know the truth about 7-Day Adventists because I felt that something was wrong with that.

Now I know the truth. "God is NOT the author of confusion."

[jimconnie123]

I dont think Ellen G White wrote Charlottes Webb, the childrens book and movie. It was written by a man , Elwyn Brooks White(E. B. White). Thanks

[lamisol]

@jimconnie123 That was a joke, he does it often.

[starvethesumo]

@jimconnie123 good observation, but i'm sure that was a joke

[bridgetbrashears]

This is wonderful. I really appreciate Todd Friel's explanations. Thank you. Was he making a joke about Charlotte's Web? Does he know that Ellen G. White didn't write that? I know he can be funny like that, just wondering.

[wiredog89BC]

@searchthescriptures7 The video was on the abberant teachings of Seventh Day Adventism. Todd Friel, did not misquote Adventism he summarized what is taught in Sabbath Schools and the Hour of Worship every Saturday across the world in SDA Churches. If you don't agree and believe something else then you're not an Adventist, maybe you're really Christian! Call your General Conference Ministerial Division they will tell you, NO this IS what Adventist believe.

[searchthescriptures7]

By the way, I actually appreciate a lot of what I've heard from Mr. Friel, and much of it is solidly biblically based. I'm less sure about his often sarcastic tone, however. In any case, I just wish he had done more research about SDA's rather than purveying the all too common false charges. We SDA's are your brothers and sisters in Christ. We simply wish to continue the wonderful Reformation which God began in the past--to return to the Bible teachings which have been lost by traditions.

[searchthescriptures7]

Regarding the Sabbath. Wasn't Mr. Friel the same person who used John Piper's "test" for how you can know you're a real Christian?Didn't one of the questions refer to John 14:15:If you love Me, keep my commandments?Isn't the Sabbath one of the commandments?How is keeping the Sabbath legalism, but keeping the others is not?How is RESTING in God working your way into heaven? Please study God's Word to see that His day was established at creation, before sin, before Jews, for all people(Gen. 2:2).

[wiredog89BC]

@searchthescriptures7 WATCH OUT! The Adventist teaching that the word "law" or "commandments" is exclusively the "10 Commandments" is A FALLACY OF EQUIVOCATION. The law / commandments = Torrah (i.e., first 5 books of Moses) in the NT the Greek word "nomos" is used. To the contrary, here Jesus saying to obey his teachings "entole". Read this entire Chapter 14 or ALL the New Testament--will you NOT find Jesus or his Apostles teaching that Christians were required to Observe the Jewish Sabbath.

[searchthescriptures7]

@wiredog89BC Of course we know, sir, that nomos refers to the whole law. But are not the 10 commandments part of the the Torah? And are they not consistetly upheld in the NT? Rom. 7:12, etc. Did Jesus TEACH people to keep the 10 commandments, or break them? Matt. 19:17-19;Matt. 7:23; 5:19-32. The Sabbath is NOT JEWISH, sir. The Sabbath was made for "ANTHROPOS"-- ALL mankind--Mark 2:27-28. WATCH OUT! Please do not "make void the word of God by your tradition."Mk. 7:13

[wiredog89BC]

@searchthescriptures7 For 28 Years Adventisim blinded me and many others with its other Gospel (Gal 1:6-10). However Col 2:13-17--Scripture speaking--clearly says the Law was fulfilled and its requirements satisfied just as Christ said he came to do Mat 5:18 and Luke 16:17. The books of Galatians and Romans REFUTE the Adventist Jewish Sabbath Doctrine. If you say Christians are still subject to the law, then you DENY CHRIST EVER CAME (Gal 3:19-25). Should I ask for whom are you waiting?

[searchthescriptures7]

@wiredog89BC So . . .It's now OK to murder, lie, steal, dishonor our parents, worship idols, take God's name in vain, etc.? Really? Wow . . .Col. 2:13-17 is talking about "shadows" that pointed forward to Christ--sacrifices, and the festivals which pointed forward to Christ and His work. The Sabbath was BEFORE SIN, and it is part of the MORAL laws of the decalogue. Are you saying that the 10 commandments are nullified? This is not scriptural at all. If there is no law, then there in no sin.

[wiredog89BC]

@searchthescriptures7 You're not arguing with me, your beef is with Scripture. Gal 3:17-18 is clear that the law came 430 years AFTER Abraham. Where do you get the idea that only the Decalogue is Moral, the Bible makes no such distinction. If that was so then the Greatest Commandments in Matthew 22:36-40 and Mark 12:29-41 are not in the Decalogue they are from Deuteronomy and Leviticus! No, Scripture is clear the Law was given at Sinai Ex 19 & 20.

[wiredog89BC]

@searchthescriptures7 Where in the Bible do you see that the "shadow" Col 2:13-17 only points forward? That is mere Adventist conjecture. Paul is CLEAR in naming Sabbaton as part of the "shadows" v 17. Passover celebrated by the Jews pointed back to the Exodus yet it also pointed forward to Christ and it was a "shadow". Scripture is clear and one clear word of Scripture is worth a thousand words of conjecture.

[wiredog89BC]

@searchthescriptures7 Where do you get the teaching that no law=no sin? Romans 5:12-14 does not support that it says "sin was in the world before the law was given, but sin is not charged against anyone’s account where there is no law". Romans 2:12, "For all who have sinned without the Law will also perish without the Law".

I'm not sure where you are getting that interpretation from Scripture.

[searchthescriptures7]

@wiredog89BC Jesus DID talk about keeping the Sabbath, sir. He said, "It is LAWFUL to do good on the Sabbath." Why would Jesus talk about what is LAWFUL on the Sabbath if He was coming to get rid of it? As for the apostles: Luke 23:56 refers to Jesus disciples who "RESTED on the Sabbath according to the commandment." This was written long after Christ's death. Acts 16:13 finds the APOSTLES worshipping on the Sabbath with GENTILES, NOT only in the Jewish synogogue as is often claimed.

[wiredog89BC]

@searchthescriptures7 If you do study God's word you will also not find anywhere in the record of the shabbath being kept by Noah, Abraham, or Job these were all godly men. This is because the shabbath was not given until Sinai and given to the JEWS!

It is dishonest to try to say the Jewish Sabbath was given at the Garden of Eden or that Gentiles (i.e., Christians) were given that law given ONLY to the ISRAELITES. Read Romans 2:13-15.

[searchthescriptures7]

@wiredog89BC Where does it talk about Noah SPECIFICALLY keeping any of the other commandments? Does the Bible SPECIFICALLY say that Abraham did not murder, or that he didn't take the Lord's name in vain, or that he honored his parents? How about Job? But of course we still know that they kept them. see Gen. 26:5 When did God sanctify the 7th day as the Sabbath?--AT CREATION. There were not Jews at that time. All 10 commandments can be found in Genesis--including the Sabbath in Gen. 2:2.

[wiredog89BC]

@searchthescriptures7 Do you really want to tell people that Adventisim says the the law was given before Moses climbed Mt. Sinai? Then Adventisim denies clear Scripture-- (Gal 3:17-18)

What I am saying is this: the Law, which came four hundred and thirty years later, does not invalidate a covenant previously ratified by God, so as to nullify the promise. For if the inheritance is based on law, it is no longer based on a promise; but God has granted it to Abraham by means of a promise.

[searchthescriptures7]

@wiredog89BC Do you really want to tell people that murder was OK until Moses? That Cain was not guilty for murdering Abel? That it was OK to commit adultery, steal, lie, dishonor your parents, etc. before Moses? Wow . . .

[searchthescriptures7]

@wiredog89BC God sanctified the 7th day right after creation (Gen. 2:2-3)-for everyone (Mk. 2:27-28). Isaiah 56:2-6 says that the Sabbath was also for "foreigners". Unlike circumcision, the Sabbath was ordained at CREATION, BEFORE ANY JEWS EXISTED. Should we conclude that Job, Noah, and Abraham MURDERED people or WORSHIPPED IDOLS, or TOOK GOD"S NAME IN VAIN because the Bible dosen't SPECIFICALLY mention their keeping of these commandments? Your argument is completely vacuous.

[wiredog89BC]

@searchthescriptures7 So what you are telling us that your biggest support for Jewish Sabbath Observance BEFORE Exodus is based on what is NOT in the Scriptures? Friend that is not Scriptural that is EISGESIS, and it is what the Adventist Prophet practiced. She wrote into Scripture what NO inspired writers recorded or any 1st Century Historians recorded. The Adventist Church as LATE as its 1919 Bible Conference knew she was not inspired. That only leaves one source for her material.

[wiredog89BC]

@searchthescriptures7 Instead of reading into Scripture what is NOT being said lets look at what Scripture CLEARLY says. IN CONTEXT regarding the Sabbath --

Ex 20:1-2 is where God says outright who he's giving the law to

Ezekiel 20:10-12 says who he gave the Sabbath to the Israelites

Deuteronomy 5 especially verse 15 God tells the Israelites he is commanding THEM to keep Sabbath

Exodus 31:13, 16-17. God gave the Sabbath to the Jews at Mount Sinai, all which was fulfilled at the cross.

[wiredog89BC]

@searchthescriptures7 Its interesting that you chose to quote Isaiah 56 but stop at verse 6. If we read the entire chapter or go even one more verse to vers 7 then we read these foreigners should also offer burnt offerings and sacrifices, go to the Temple, offer sacrifices on a literal alter as those are commanded just as clearly as Jewish Sabbath Observance. This was for the Jewish Age and the Gentile proselytes who converted to Judaism as mentioned in Ex 12:48. Have you done those lately?

[searchthescriptures7]

I hope that you can all see by now from the evidence provided in the E.G. White quotes that I've posted, that this video makes completely false charges against SDA's. I don't know what kind of SDA churches you former SDA's were attending, but obviously something must have been wrong for you to suggest that this video presents the truth. Please consider returning and seeing what SDAism REALLY all about. May God help you as you study. Please let me know if you would like to study the Bible.

[searchthescriptures7]

E.G. White: "Should faith and works purchase the gift of salvation . . . then the Creator is under obligation to the creature. If any man can merit salvation . . .then he is in the same position as the Catholic to do penance for his sins. If man cannot, by any of his good works, merit salvation, then it must be wholly of grace, received by man as a sinner because he receives and believes in Jesus. It is wholly a free gift. fallen man in his good works can never procure eternal life for him."

[searchthescriptures7]

Ellen White also wrote: "No one can be justified by any works of his own. He can be delivered from the guilt of sin, from the condemnation of the law, from the penalty of transgression, only by virtue of the suffering, death, and ressurection of Christ." Legalism? Not a chance.

[wiredog89BC]

@searchthescriptures7 Their prophet cannot be clearer in her writing and Adventism cannot be clearer in teaching a works based salvation. Another one of many things EGW wrote teaches that Man & God are partners in Salvation; works + faith is heresy however it is exactly what EGW writes,

"the commandments of God is the only way to obtain His favor." Testimonies for the Church Volume 4, Page 28.

Adventist teach Observance of the Jewish Sabbath and dietary laws are required for salvation.

[searchthescriptures7]

@wiredog89BC So keeping God's law by His grace does not please Him?The Bible says it does: John 8:29 Jesus said, "I always do the things that are pleasing to Him". And He said, "I have kept My Father's commandments."Keeping God's law does not earn salvation, but of course it pleases Him.Does it please God to murder?Does it please God to commit adultery?How is the Sabbath commandment obliterated and the others are not?Col. 2:16 is about the sabbaths of the festal calendar, not the 7th day.

[searchthescriptures7]

Here is what Ellen White REALLY said: "When the Father beheld the sacrifice of His Son, He [recognized] it's perfection. . . .The Atonement is COMPLETE." She also wrote: "The sacrifice of Christ is SUFFICIENT. He made a whole, efficacious offering to God; THE HUMAN EFFORT WITHOUT THE MERIT OF CHRIST IS WORTHLESS." This also refutes that charge that SDA's are legalists. Please do better research, Mr. Friel. She writes many times that we are saved only by Christ's death, not our works.

[wiredog89BC]

@searchthescriptures7 Given Ellen G. Whites own writings she clearly teaches the atonement is NOT complete. Consider just some more of what she wrote,

“. . .High Priest in heaven, the finishing of the atonement, and the preparing of the people to abide the day of His coming.” Testimonies for the Church Volume 1, Page 58

“So in the great day of final atonement and investigative Judgment, . . .takes place at a later period.” The Great Controversy 1888, Page 480

At best she contradicts herself.

[searchthescriptures7]

@wiredog89BC What these quotes are talking about is the APPLICATION of Christ's COMPLETED sacrifice in the heavenly sanctuary. Just as the sins of Israel were transferred to the earthly sanctuary and not CLEANSED until the day of ATONEMENT, so also sins in the heavenly sanctuary are not completely removed until the cleansing of the heavenly sanctuary, which is now going on. So the PROVISION of atonement was COMPLETED at the cross, though its APPLICATION is going on now. No contradiction here.

[searchthescriptures7]

The information in this video has some completely false information. Adventists believe do not believe that Jesus did not comlete the atonement on the cross. Ellen White never said that the cross was not a sufficient atonement. I noticed that there were no direct quotes from her--this is bearing false witness and unfair. See what she really said below in my next post:

[wiredog89BC]

@searchthescriptures7 I disagree, but just the opposite, to his credit because Todd Friel is not an SDA yet he,—or his staff—was able to succinctly point out in a five (5) minute segment why Adventism is not an evangelical Christian denomination.  The fact he was able to do that speaks greatly to the extent Adventism deviates from orthodox Christianity. Because most Adventists are indoctrinated so heavily, “they are unable to contrast between the teaching of cults and Orthodox Christianity.”

[FreeIndeed25]

That is spot on! I say that from the perspective of being a former SDA pastor, born into the SDA church, brought up through all the schools, and having worked for the SDA church most of my life. He could have touched on many other issues with SDA beliefs/teachings, but it's a good start.

[diabhalman]

Wow! Thanks! I would have never Known!!!! 

[Sabbatismos49]

wiredog89BC, thank you so much for posting this!!! I had heard about it, but I had never seen it. It's great!

[Sabbatismos49]

Awesome, Todd!!! Thank you for shedding light on Adventism! As a former-Adventist myself, I can confirm the truthfulness of all you shared. (Except that it's E.B. White who wrote Charlotte's Web--not E.G. White, the SDA prophetess). :)

If anyone wants more resources on what Adventism teaches, please visit our website, Sabbatismos. Blessings in Christ, Jennifer